Another Senseless Shooting by an Incompetent Cop

[Private Pickle]

Video is at link. It is not graphic but does show the shooting which, in my opinion, was a negligent discharge.

How can cops experience negligent discharges? They train with their firearms constantly for just this type of scenario.

You can hear her say "Shit" after she shot him knowing she fucked up.

She should be charged with attempted murder/manslaughter and stripped of her badge for life.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1488490804

P.S. While the cop was white and the victim black this is not a racial thread rather yet one more example of how the militarization and entitlement of our police has become a national threat. Those who want to turn this thread into a racial discussion will be booted.

[Doublejack]

Obviously not attempted murder jeeze. It was all of 2 seconds and clearly an accident.

Keep in mind it would have taken him the same amount of time to shoot her.

If you're going to be a criminal you might just want to not try to evade/hide/fight police. It would greatly increase your survival odds.

[MisterVeritis]

?
Video is at link. It is not graphic but does show the shooting which, in my opinion, was a negligent discharge.

How can cops experience negligent discharges? They train with their firearms constantly for just this type of scenario.

You can hear her say "Shit" after she shot him knowing she fucked up.

She should be charged with attempted murder/manslaughter and stripped of her badge for life.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1488490804

P.S. While the cop was white and the victim black this is not a racial thread rather yet one more example of how the militarization and entitlement of our police has become a national threat. Those who want to turn this thread into a racial discussion will be booted.
I watched it twice. I don't see attempted murder. The one time I saw her weapon hand it looked like she was carrying correctly.

She yelled, "show me your hands!" Then as the mattress fell away she shot him.

Funny. I did not notice his color. I doubt she did either.

[Private Pickle]

?
I watched it twice. I don't see attempted murder. The one time I saw her weapon hand it looked like she was carrying correctly.

She yelled, "show me your hands!" Then as the mattress fell away she shot him.

Funny. I did not notice his color. I doubt she did either.
Watch it again. The mattress doesn't fall until after she shot him. She should have never had her finger on that trigger until she positively identified a life threatening situation.

I put in the P.S. because after watching it a couple times I too realized the racial dynamic which I don't believe played a role in the shooting.

[Private Pickle]

Obviously not attempted murder jeeze. It was all of 2 seconds and clearly an accident.

Keep in mind it would have taken him the same amount of time to shoot her.

If you're going to be a criminal you might just want to not try to evade/hide/fight police. It would greatly increase your survival odds.

He is innocent until proven guilty in this country and doing drugs is not a capital crime. Regardless, cops don't have the luxury of "accidents" when they are pointing guns at our citizenry.

[MisterVeritis]

Watch it again. The mattress doesn't fall until after she shot him. She should have never had her finger on that trigger until she positively identified a life threatening situation.

I put in the P.S. because after watching it a couple times I too realized the racial dynamic which I don't believe played a role in the shooting.
Twice is sufficient. I see absolutely no crime.

I do see someone better suited for a job that does not require carrying a firearm.

[Doublejack]

He is innocent until proven guilty in this country and doing drugs is not a capital crime. Regardless, cops don't have the luxury of "accidents" when they are pointing guns at our citizenry.

I feel sorry for the officer more than the criminal.

[MisterVeritis]

He is innocent until proven guilty in this country and doing drugs is not a capital crime. Regardless, cops don't have the luxury of "accidents" when they are pointing guns at our citizenry.
I do not see any crime on her part. Put me on the jury. I will convince the rest she is not guilty of a crime.

[Private Pickle]

Twice is sufficient. I see absolutely no crime.

I do see someone better suited for a job that does not require carrying a firearm.

A man was shot erroneously. Cops can't shoot people unless there is imminent threat. There was no threat.

[Private Pickle]

I feel sorry for the officer more than the criminal.
And it's this type of perspective that has led to the overreaching power our municipal cops feel they are entitled to...

[Private Pickle]

I do not see any crime on her part. Put me on the jury. I will convince the rest she is not guilty of a crime.

Which is probably why you wouldn't be selected. A natural bias against those you believe are guilty or innocent before even hearing the testimony or understanding the facts of the case...

[MisterVeritis]

A man was shot erroneously. Cops can't shoot people unless there is imminent threat. There was no threat.
Perhaps. I viewed the video twice from the safety of my office far away from crimes involving drugs. I watched over her shoulder as the two or three officers cleared the house room by room. At no time did my heart rate jump from 68 beats per minute to well over 110.

When she shouted for the perp to show his hands, at that moment when the mattress bergan to fall I saw shadow where the perps hands were. Then she shot him. As the mattress cleared his hands it was evident he was (probably) not armed.

No crime on her part.

[MisterVeritis]

Which is probably why you wouldn't be selected. A natural bias against those you believe are guilty or innocent before even hearing the testimony or understanding the facts of the case...
I have never been selected because I was a skilled engineer. I think rationally and reasonably.

[Doublejack]

A man was shot erroneously. Cops can't shoot people unless there is imminent threat. There was no threat.

Right, it was an accident.

You're the one calling for murder charges... that's why I feel sorry for the cop.

[del]

it must be cool to be able to read minds

[Private Pickle]

Perhaps. I viewed the video twice from the safety of my office far away from crimes involving drugs. I watched over her shoulder as the two or three officers cleared the house room by room. At no time did my heart rate jump from 68 beats per minute to well over 110.
When she shouted for the perp to show his hands, at that moment when the mattress bergan to fall I saw shadow where the perps hands were. Then she shot him. As the mattress cleared his hands it was evident he was (probably) not armed.

No crime on her part.

There is about one second between when she says show me your hands and she fires. It was a negligent discharge that injured another human being. That is a crime whether you like the person shot or not...

[MisterVeritis]

And it's this type of perspective that has led to the overreaching power our municipal cops feel they are entitled to...
I see it the other way around. I believe you are sympathetic to the perp because you use illegal drugs just as he did.

A non-drug user would simply watch the events unfold and draw a reasonable conclusion. An illegal drug user would come to a different conclusion.

[del]

drug use does cause paranoia

[MisterVeritis]

There is about one second between when she says show me your hands and she fires. It was a negligent discharge that injured another human being. That is a crime whether you like the person shot or not...
I am inclined to believe she shot him legitimately. In the time his hands were concealed by the shadow he could have killed her with a shot.

It happens very quickly in real life.

[Private Pickle]

Right, it was an accident.

You're the one calling for murder charges... that's why I feel sorry for the cop.

So it wasn't an accident. It was a negligent discharge. Crashing into a pedestrian when you're drunk isn't an accident. Neither is pointing a gun at an unarmed man and shooting your firearm wounding that man prior to identifying an imminent threat.

Feel sorry for her all you want but she shot another human for no reason whatsoever and that is a crime...at the least assault with a deadly weapon but we all know her aim was center mass so attempted manslaughter/murder certainly applies.

[Doublejack]

Luckily she had a body camera to prove it wasn't a murder.

[Private Pickle]

i see it the other way around. I believe you are sympathetic to the perp because you use illegal drugs just as he did.

A non-drug user would simply watch the events unfold and draw a reasonable conclusion. An illegal drug user would come to a different conclusion.

lol ok.

[Private Pickle]

I am inclined to believe she shot him legitimately. In the time his hands were concealed by the shadow he could have killed her with a shot.

It happens very quickly in real life.

Of course it does...but she MUST confirm imminent danger... She didn't...it was obvious that she shot him negligently... That is a crime.

[MisterVeritis]

So it wasn't an accident. It was a negligent discharge. Crashing into a pedestrian when you're drunk isn't an accident. Neither is pointing a gun at an unarmed man and shooting your firearm wounding that man prior to identifying an imminent threat.

Feel sorry for her all you want but she shot another human for no reason whatsoever and that is a crime...at the least assault with a deadly weapon but we all know her aim was center mass so attempted manslaughter/murder certainly applies.
I am pretty sure you will be proven wrong by a real jury.

[Private Pickle]

I am pretty sure you will be proven wrong by a real jury.

We are going to find out. But if you agree with this shooting you must agree with the shooting of other unarmed suspects such as Levoy Finicum....

[Safety]

Luckily she had a body camera to prove it wasn't a murder.

Actually, the body camera showed that she erred. If there was no body camera, she would not be on restrictive duties or probably even be under investigation.

[Private Pickle]

Actually, the body camera showed that she erred. If there was no body camera, she would not be on restrictive duties or probably even be under investigation.
It's obvious. You don't say "show me your hands" and then literally 1 second later shoot the guy. And she is definitely under investigation.


Louisville, KY - Bodycam video was released Thursday after an officer shot a man Wednesday in the Russell neighborhood. A neighbor said she called police because a man appeared to be doing drugs outside a home near Magazine and 26th streets. When the officers arrived, the neighbor told them that the man had gone into a vacant house. Three Officers went into the house and announced their presence multiple times while searching the house. As officers were leaving the house, Stumler, 34, noticed Bruce Warrick, 38, hiding behind a mattress against the wall. Stumler can be heard shouting, 'Show me your hands,' and firing one shot seconds later. Warrick was still behind mattress when he was shot in the abdomen. Warrick was taken to the Hospital, where he had surgery and is still hospitalized. Stumler has been relieved of her police powers, pending the outcome of the investigation.
Read more at https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1488490804#7jh0ETJW8wTQSjef.99

[Doublejack]

Actually, the body camera showed that she erred. If there was no body camera, she would not be on restrictive duties or probably even be under investigation.
I would take an accidental shooting over a murder investigation.

[MisterVeritis]

Of course it does...but she MUST confirm imminent danger... She didn't...it was obvious that she shot him negligently... That is a crime.
Not if I am on the jury.

[Green Arrow]

Looks like a pretty clear cut violation to me.

[MisterVeritis]

We are going to find out. But if you agree with this shooting you must agree with the shooting of other unarmed suspects such as Levoy Finicum....
This is perhaps, the stupidest thing you have written.

Finicum had his hands up and visible the whole time. Finicum was murdered by two, or possible three police.

The drug perp's hands were not visible until after he was shot.

You are simply wrong.

[Private Pickle]

I would take an accidental shooting over a murder investigation.

If you spend anytime around firearms whatsoever you would know that there is no such thing as an "accidental shooting". Only "negligence" leads to what you might think of as an "accidental" shooting.

[Abby08]

How does she know, in that split second, whether or not he had a gun? He very well could have, then, the police officer might now be dead. Would you have preferred that?

Police officers have, often times, a split second to decide whether or not to shoot, they rely on their training, when confronting a criminal, they are probably trained to assume a weapon is present.

They have every right to defend themselves.

[Tahuyaman]

A man was shot erroneously. Cops can't shoot people unless there is imminent threat. There was no threat.

She screwed up, but it wasn't attempted murder.

[Safety]

I would take an accidental shooting over a murder investigation.

I would also. It was an accident, there will be no murder trial, although I think she is too skittish to be an officer.

[Private Pickle]

This is perhaps, the stupidest thing you have written.

Finicum had his hands up and visible the whole time. finicum was murdered by two, or possible three police.

The drug perp's hands were not visible until after he was shot.

You are simply wrong.
That's what I thought... Land your plane because this poor guy that was shot also had no weapon in his hands and was shot 1 second after being asked to show his hands. This is much worse than the Finicum shooting given this victim wasn't screaming "Shoot me"!

[del]

finicum was a suicide

[Private Pickle]

Not if I am on the jury.
Which is why you wouldn't be...

[Tahuyaman]

If you spend anytime around firearms whatsoever you would know that there is no such thing as an "accidental shooting". Only "negligence" leads to what you might think of as an "accidental" shooting.

Negligence can cause accidents.

[Private Pickle]

She screwed up, but it wasn't attempted murder.

She screwed up translates to gross negligence that almost killed someone. Murder? Probably not. Manslaughter for sure.

[Doublejack]

I strongly agreed with LeVoy shooting

[Green Arrow]

How does she know, in that split second, whether or not he had a gun? He very well could have, then, the police officer might now be dead. Would you have preferred that?

Police officers have, often times, a split second to decide whether or not to shoot, they rely on their training, when confronting a criminal, they are probably trained to assume a weapon is present.

They have every right to defend themselves.

This was the exact opposite of using your training. She gave him exactly zero chance to comply with her orders.

[MisterVeritis]

That's what I thought... Land your plane because this poor guy that was shot also had no weapon in his hands and was shot 1 second after being asked to show his hands. This is much worse than the Finicum shooting given this victim wasn't screaming "Shoot me"!
Your stature has diminished somewhat in my eyes.

[Private Pickle]

Negligence can cause accidents.

And then people go to jail.

[Green Arrow]

Your stature has diminished somewhat in my eyes.

I'm sure he's crushed.

[Abby08]

That, "hands up, don't shoot", incident to which had been referred. Is that the one, where it had been proven to be wrong? There actually was no such statement uttered?

Would that be the one?

[Private Pickle]

Your stature has diminished somewhat in my eyes.
That's great man. Get back on topic and don't resort to Ad Homs to strengthen your argument.

[Private Pickle]

That, "hands up, don't shoot", incident to which had been referred. Is that the one, where it had been proven to be wrong? There actually was no such statement uttered?

Would that be the one?

Can you reply to the person that referred to it so you don't leave us all scratching our heads?

[patrickt]

Video is at link. It is not graphic but does show the shooting which, in my opinion, was a negligent discharge.

How can cops experience negligent discharges? They train with their firearms constantly for just this type of scenario.

You can hear her say "Shit" after she shot him knowing she fucked up.

She should be charged with attempted murder/manslaughter and stripped of her badge for life.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1488490804

P.S. While the cop was white and the victim black this is not a racial thread rather yet one more example of how the militarization and entitlement of our police has become a national threat. Those who want to turn this thread into a racial discussion will be booted.

Another ridiculous rant by someone who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

[MisterVeritis]

That's great man. Get back on topic and don't resort to Ad Homs to strengthen your argument.
I have offered my arguments. You widened this to the Finicum murder. I didn't.

[Abby08]

This was the exact opposite of using your training. She gave him exactly zero chance to comply with her orders.

I'll wait to see what the investigation findings are.

[Private Pickle]

How does she know, in that split second, whether or not he had a gun? He very well could have, then, the police officer might now be dead. Would you have preferred that?

Hypotheticals are fun but the fact is...she didn't wait to determine if he was a threat. Cops are mandated by law to do that very thing before using deadly force... Don't like it? Don't be a cop...and don't shoot unarmed suspects...

[Private Pickle]

Another ridiculous rant by someone who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
And this constitutes another worthless post by another worthless poster.... At least try to create an argument that doesn't have something to do with the person you're arguing against...

[Abby08]

Hypotheticals are fun but the fact is...she didn't wait to determine if he was a threat. Cops are mandated by law to do that very thing before using deadly force... Don't like it? Don't be a cop...and don't shoot unarmed suspects...

And, that's all the time it takes, for a cop to be killed.

Don't like it, don't be a criminal.

[del]

And this constitutes another worthless post by another worthless poster.... At least try to create an argument that doesn't have something to do with the person you're arguing against...


lol

[Doublejack]

That, "hands up, don't shoot", incident to which had been referred. Is that the one, where it had been proven to be wrong? There actually was no such statement uttered?

Would that be the one?


Nah they're talking about the texans that took over the oregon bird sanctuary then the one dude got himself shot doing stupid stuff.

[Private Pickle]

I have offered my arguments. You widened this to the Finicum murder. I didn't.
What that has to do with my statement is beyond me... I am not the topic so your opinion on my "stature" is what is off topic... Get back to the topic.

[MisterVeritis]

I strongly agreed with LeVoy shooting
You liked that murder?

[del]

You liked that murder?
suicide

and, yeah, i couldn't get enough

[MisterVeritis]

What that has to do with my statement is beyond me... I am not the topic so your opinion on my "stature" is what is off topic... Get back to the topic.
You widened the discussion to the inicum murder and then described them, incorrectly as the same.

Stupid. Very, very stupid.

[Private Pickle]

Nah they're talking about the texans that took over the oregon bird sanctuary then the one dude got himself shot doing stupid stuff.
The Bundy's are from Arizona...

[The Xl]

Nothing will ever change until there are actual consequences to these negligent and or criminal sorts of actions.

[Doublejack]

You liked that murder?


Suicide by cop - I liked that he got what he wanted yes.

[Private Pickle]

You widened the discussion to the inicum murder and then described them, incorrectly as the same.

Stupid. Very, very stupid.

They are the same. Two suspects who were unarmed were gunned down...

[Doublejack]

The Bundy's are from Arizona...

Ah right .. who cares.

[The Xl]

There has to be consequences to actions. She was nervous or it was an accident doesn't cut it when it comes to taking another's life. Murder is murder.

[Private Pickle]

And, that's all the time it takes, for a cop to be killed.

Don't like it, don't be a criminal.

Again this guy is innocent until proven guilty... You know about that right correct?

[Private Pickle]

Ah right .. who cares.
It's important to know what you're talking about...

[Abby08]

That, "hands up, don't shoot", incident to which had been referred. Is that the one, where it had been proven to be wrong? There actually was no such statement uttered?

Would that be the one?

Seems I got the players mixed up. It was the Brown shooting, in which the claim of, "hands up don't shoot" statement, was proven to be false.

Sorry!

[Doublejack]

There has to be consequences to actions. She was nervous or it was an accident doesn't cut it when it comes to taking another's life. Murder is murder.
So you would prosecute her the same as if she tied him up in her basement and chopped him up with an axe?

[Abby08]

Again this guy is innocent until proven guilty... You know about that right correct?

I do.

[MisterVeritis]

Suicide by cop - I liked that he got what he wanted yes.
Interesting. I saw it as the murder it actually was.

[Doublejack]

It's important to know what you're talking about...

Not when it comes to some random douchbags nobody cares about.

[Doublejack]

Interesting. I saw it as the murder it actually was.

Cool

[resister]

I do not see any crime on her part. Put me on the jury. I will convince the rest she is not guilty of a crime.
His back was fuckin turned are you serious? I could not see his hands! Same justification for shooting you when approaching a traffic stop from behind!

[Private Pickle]

Not when it comes to some random douchbags nobody cares about.
I like the fact that you speak for "nobody"...

[MisterVeritis]

They are the same. Two suspects who were unarmed were gunned down...
Your inability to see the plain differences is why I think less of you.

[Doublejack]

I like the fact that you speak for "nobody"...
Nobody gives a shit what you like :)

[Private Pickle]

Your inability to see the plain differences is why I think less of you.
Your inability to see the stark similarities is why I've never really thought much of you... Ad Homs are fun!

[MisterVeritis]

His back was fuckin turned are you serious? I could not see his hands! Same justification for shooting you when approaching a traffic stop from behind!
Finicum's hands were over his head. The Oregon police murdered him.

[Private Pickle]

Nobody gives a shit what you like :)

Says "nobody"!

[resister]

How does she know, in that split second, whether or not he had a gun? He very well could have, then, the police officer might now be dead. Would you have preferred that?

Police officers have, often times, a split second to decide whether or not to shoot, they rely on their training, when confronting a criminal, they are probably trained to assume a weapon is present.

They have every right to defend themselves.
Disagree, because his hands were not visible, by your logic they can shoot you thru your back windshield in a traffic stop.

[MisterVeritis]

His back was fuckin turned are you serious? I could not see his hands! Same justification for shooting you when approaching a traffic stop from behind!
You will have to do better. I have no idea what you are talking about. Try to add some specifics.

[MisterVeritis]

The Bundy's are from Arizona...
Nevada is far more likely.

[MisterVeritis]

Again this guy is innocent until proven guilty... You know about that right correct?
While interesting it is not relevant.

[MisterVeritis]

Your inability to see the stark similarities is why I've never really thought much of you... Ad Homs are fun!
If you want to go down this path describe the stark similarities.

[Private Pickle]

While interesting it is not relevant.

Says the guy that has already tried and decided this case in a court of law.

[Private Pickle]

If you want to go down this path describe the stark similarities.
Two unarmed individuals were shot by overzealous police.

[MisterVeritis]

Says the guy that has already tried and decided this case in a court of law.
Now you have moved from saying stupid things to actually being stupid. Cool.

[resister]

You will have to do better. I have no idea what you are talking about. Try to add some specifics.We both watched the video yes, why did she say shit ? Like pickle said, she knew she fucked up! Cops need integrated firearm/tasers. They could prevent these incidents. His threat level warranted chemical or electric weapons.

[MisterVeritis]

If you want to go down this path describe the stark similarities.

Two unarmed individuals were shot by overzealous police.
You can do better. At least try.

[Private Pickle]

Now you have moved from saying stupid things to actually being stupid. Cool.


Not if I am on the jury.

Uh huh...

[Private Pickle]

If you want to go down this path describe the stark similarities.

You can do better. At least try.

Are you saying that two unarmed individuals weren't shot by overzealous police?

[Don]

I too thought she was startled and pulled too quick. I think she realized it too. I don't think it rises to the level of criminal charges but she maybe should lose her job. The guy is responsible for what happened to him too. If it hadn't been for the body cam we wouldn't know what happened at all and they didn't make any lame excuses like "the body cam malfunctioned." Because of the cam I couldn't see the cop who shot and I didn't get a good look at the other cops except on other female who looked to me like she was way to fat to be a cop. If they aren't in shape they shouldn't have the job because it means they may have to go to lethal force if they get in trouble.

[MisterVeritis]

We both watched the video yes, why did she say shit ? Like pickle said, she knew she fucked up! Cops need integrated firearm/tasers. They could prevent these incidents. His threat level warranted chemical or electric weapons.
What she says after she fired one shot is interesting but not relevant.

The perp was hiding. His hands were concealed. As the mattress fell away his hands were concealed in the shadow.

[Private Pickle]

What she says after she fired one shot is interesting but not relevant.

The perp was hiding. His hands were concealed. As the mattress fell away his hands were concealed in the shadow.

He was shot before the mattress fell. Watch the video again.

[resister]

What she says after she fired one shot is interesting but not relevant.

The perp was hiding. His hands were concealed. As the mattress fell away his hands were concealed in the shadow.His back was turned. By these standards tou can be shot because your hands are not visible, like I said, chemical or electric weapons first, levels of escalation apply.

[Abby08]

Another look. I didn't notice the first time, the suspect was not facing the officer. Also, she fired AS she was telling him to show his hands.

[del]

The Bundy's are from Arizona...


It's important to know what you're talking about...

they're from nevada

[MisterVeritis]

Uh huh...
LOL. You have not proved your case. No to attempted murder. No to manslaughter as the perp did not die.

[Private Pickle]

they're from nevada

Yes. I misspoke. So both me and whats his face need to understand that it's important to know what you're talking about. Thanks..

[MisterVeritis]

He was shot before the mattress fell. Watch the video again.
I am not going to look again. I spent twice as much time as she had. I also wrote, as the mattress fell...

No crime.

[resister]

Another look. I didn't notice the first time, the suspect was not facing the officer. Also, she fired AS she was telling him to show his hands.Like I said, levels of escalation were ignored. Manslaughter if not 3rd degree murder. Total BS

[Private Pickle]

LOL. You have not proved your case. No to attempted murder. No to manslaughter as the perp did not die.
Attempted.
Case closed.

[MisterVeritis]

His back was turned. By these standards tou can be shot because your hands are not visible, like I said, chemical or electric weapons first, levels of escalation apply.
If his back was turned how did the fired round hit him in the abdomen?

[resister]

Like I said, levels of escalation were ignored. Manslaughter if not 3rd degree murder. Total BS
Not dead? then attempted.

[Private Pickle]

I am not going to look again. I spent twice as much time as she had. I also wrote, as the mattress fell...

No crime.

He was shot before the mattress started to fall. You should watch it again. Attempted manslaughter.

[MisterVeritis]

Like I said, levels of escalation were ignored. Manslaughter if not 3rd degree murder. Total BS
I do agree your assessment is total bull. If I was on the jury I could convince you. :-)

Face to face.

[Dr. Who]

I do not see any crime on her part. Put me on the jury. I will convince the rest she is not guilty of a crime.

The rapidity at which she shot suggests to me that she was afraid and startled and that the gunfire was an involuntary response. I would not suggest either manslaughter or any deliberate attack, but perhaps the negligent discharge of a weapon.

[resister]

If his back was turned how did the fired round hit him in the abdomen?So were his hands behind his back? We must of watched different videos, you and I.

[del]

The Bundy's are from Arizona...


Yes. I misspoke. So both me and whats his face need to understand that it's important to know what you're talking about. Thanks..

it's too bad the freeloaders are still alive

[Tahuyaman]

And then people go to jail.
Not necessarily.

[resister]

The rapidity at which she shot suggests to me that she was afraid and startled and that the gunfire was an involuntary response. I would not suggest either manslaughter or any deliberate attack, but perhaps the negligent discharge of a weapon.Would you suggest the same for an identical civilian scenario?

[Private Pickle]

it's too bad the freeloaders are still alive
That's great man!

[resister]

So were his hands behind his back? We must of watched different videos, you and I.Maybe exited his abdomen!

[Private Pickle]

Would you suggest the same for an identical civilian scenario?

And that is the crux. If she wasn't a cop...attempted murder...

[Tahuyaman]

She screwed up translates to gross negligence that almost killed someone. Murder? Probably not. Manslaughter for sure.

neither.

[Private Pickle]

Not necessarily.

If negligence results in injury jail time usually follows.

[Doublejack]

Would you suggest the same for an identical civilian scenario?
If that dude was in my house he'd be very, very dead.

[del]

That's great man!
i'm glad you agree

the premise of this thread is moronic

no offense


Thread banned by OP - Please direct concerns and questions to Private Pickle.

[Private Pickle]

neither.
What would you call it?

[decedent]

If you're going to be a criminal you might just want to not try to evade/hide/fight police. It would greatly increase your survival odds.

When did it become the responsibility of the public to not get shot by the police?

[resister]

When did it become the responsibility of the public to not get shot by the police?I find it hard to believe, but we agree!

[Doublejack]

When did it become the responsibility of the public to not get shot by the police?

When police started shooting people.

[resister]

When police started shooting people.
Report how you feel when you or your loved ones become a statistic.

[decedent]

I find it hard to believe, but we agree!

I refuse to believe it.

[Doublejack]

Report how you feel when you or your loved ones become a statistic.

Were not criminals. Not too worried about it.

[resister]

I refuse to believe it.It baffles me also but I must agree. A broken clock is right once every 12 hours!

[resister]

Were not criminals. Not too worried about it.Who the hell is "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket? I was talking to you Double Jack!

[Tahuyaman]

What would you call it? Did the guy die? It can't be a homocide or even manslaughter if no one was killed. I'd need to uncover all the facts in order to make a judgement.

[resister]

I refuse to believe it.
You refuse to believe many truths!

[Tahuyaman]

If negligence results in injury jail time usually follows.not necessarily.

[Dr. Who]

Would you suggest the same for an identical civilian scenario?
Why not?

[MisterVeritis]

Are you saying that two unarmed individuals weren't shot by overzealous police?
I asked for specific stark similarities. You waved your hand.

Finican was murdered in the open, out of his car with his hands up.

The perp was shot hiding behind a mattress propped against a wall. The perp's hands were not visible until after the mattress fell.

Those are stark differences.

[resister]

I asked for specific stark similarities. You waved your hand.

Finican was murdered in the open, out of his car with his hands up.

The perp was shot hiding behind a mattress propped against a wall. The perp's hands were not visible until after the mattress fell.

Those are stark differences.
Still interested in how his hands were not visible if he was shot in the abdomen? Were his hands behind his back in the video? Was the exit wound OUT of his abdomen?

[Doublejack]

Who the hell is "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket? I was talking to you Double Jack!

You asked about me and/or my loved ones.

[resister]

Why not?
Because shooting someone because their hands are not visible, is wholly anaceptable?

[resister]

You asked about me and/or my loved ones.
So you already convicted this man in your mind? Noted.

[MisterVeritis]

Still interested in how his hands were not visible if he was shot in the abdomen? Were his hands behind his back in the video? Was the exit wound OUT of his abdomen?
If you view the video it will be clear to you. His hands were in the shadow cast by the mattress.

He was hit in the abdomen. His back was not to the police officer. He was facing her, hiding behind the mattress propped up against the wall.

Which of those facts are confusing you?

[Doublejack]

So you already convicted this man in your mind? Noted.
Huh? That was the OP that said the cop was guilty of murder.


All I said was that it looked like an accidental shooting to me.


If the guy was in my house yes.. he would be instantly judged, convicted, and sentenced to death on the spot.

[Dr. Who]

Because shooting someone because their hands are not visible, is wholly anaceptable?
Perhaps you misunderstood. Shooting someone whether it's because you are startled or because you can't see their hands, is not sufficient reason. Killing people for no reason is not OK.

[MisterVeritis]

When did it become the responsibility of the public to not get shot by the police?
On those rare occasions when I have an encounter with the police I make it my business not to be shot. You might want to consider it.

[resister]

If you view the video it will be clear to you. His hands were in the shadow cast by the mattress.

He was hit in the abdomen. His back was not to the police officer. He was facing her, hiding behind the mattress propped up against the wall.

Which of those facts are confusing you?
I am going to watch it again, stay tuned!

[resister]

Perhaps you misunderstood. Shooting someone whether it's because you are startled or because you can't see their hands, is not sufficient reason. Killing people for no reason is not OK.
The misunderstanding party is not me.

[Crepitus]

Hypotheticals are fun but the fact is...she didn't wait to determine if he was a threat. Cops are mandated by law to do that very thing before using deadly force... Don't like it? Don't be a cop...and don't shoot unarmed suspects...

This is essentially what this whole thing (and many similar situations ) boils down to IMHO. A cop goes into every situation knowing bad things could happen. The are trained (or supposed to be) to deal with it. They know the risks and then choose to take a job that involves these risks. They have the responsibility, not the person on the other end. I remember when cops would put themselves at risk to take people in alive. Now they open fire anytime they feel scared, which BTW is clearly what happened in the video. She panicked and pulled the trigger possibly accidentally but still clearly caused by being scared.

[Dr. Who]

The misunderstanding party is not me.
After I posted that I thought it was the negligent discharge of a firearm, you asked me:

Would you suggest the same for an identical civilian scenario?

I responded: "Why not?" Then "Killing people for no reason is not OK"


I'm confused as to what I must have misunderstood.

[resister]

If you watch the video closely, you will see his back is to the wall, his arms are spread flat as you would expect a guy trying to hide by pancaking between a wall and a mattress to take the lowest profile possible. He was shot closer to the side than the middle , a quartering away shot. The light is bad but look close. This shooting is a trigger happy, scared cop. No justification.

[MisterVeritis]

If you watch the video closely, you will see his back is to the wall, his arms are spread flat as you would expect a guy trying to hide by pancaking between a wall and a mattress to take the lowest profile possible. He was shot closer to the side than the middle , a quartering away shot. The light is bad but look close. This shooting is a trigger happy, scared cop. No justification.
I see you are coming around.

What do you mean by trigger happy?

[resister]

This is essentially what this whole thing (and many similar situations ) boils down to IMHO. A cop goes into every situation knowing bad things could happen. The are trained (or supposed to be) to deal with it. They know the risks and then choose to take a job that involves these risks. They have the responsibility, not the person on the other end. I remember when cops would put themselves at risk to take people in alive. Now they open fire anytime they feel scared, which BTW is clearly what happened in the video. She panicked and pulled the trigger possibly accidentally but still clearly caused by being scared.
What the hell is happening to me? I agree with you and decendant on this issue :laugh:

[Ethereal]

Obviously not attempted murder jeeze. It was all of 2 seconds and clearly an accident.

So she accidentally aimed her gun at someone and pulled the trigger?


Keep in mind it would have taken him the same amount of time to shoot her.

So what?


If you're going to be a criminal you might just want to not try to evade/hide/fight police. It would greatly increase your survival odds.

And police might want to employ deadly force only after positively identifying a weapon and a hostile intent, otherwise there are no objective limitations on when they can shoot someone.

[resister]

I see you are coming around.

What do you mean by trigger happy?
To damn quick to employ lethal force when non lethal means would of been sufficiant .

[Ethereal]

I feel sorry for the officer more than the criminal.
So "innocent until proven guilty" is somewhat of an antiquated notion in your opinion?

[Crepitus]

We both watched the video yes, why did she say shit ? Like pickle said, she knew she fucked up! Cops need integrated firearm/tasers. They could prevent these incidents. His threat level warranted chemical or electric weapons.

Yes! Lethal force should never be the go to first option for a police officer.

[MisterVeritis]

To damn quick to employ lethal force when non lethal means would of been sufficient .
What would you have done? How many times did you watch the video before you started to draw correct conclusions?

She had about 1.5 seconds. You had the benefit of hindsight and lots of coaching. She had about a second and a half. You had perfect observation with no distractions. She had a second and a half.

She committed no crime.

[Doublejack]

So "innocent until proven guilty" is somewhat of an antiquated notion in your opinion?

Just as the cop is innocent until proven guilty?

I was discussing with the OP who had already judged and convicted the cop of murder.

[MisterVeritis]

So "innocent until proven guilty" is somewhat of an antiquated notion in your opinion?
That is not relevant.

[resister]

Yes! Lethal force should never be the go to first option for a police officer.UNLESS... the threat level warrants it! This is where training is needed. I bet many cops don't know the definition of "de-escalation".

[MisterVeritis]

Yes! Lethal force should never be the go to first option for a police officer.
What do you believe should happen first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth...

[MisterVeritis]

UNLESS... the threat level warrants it! This is where training is needed. I bet many cops don't know the definition of "de-escalation".
You have moved way beyond the facts.

[Crepitus]

Maybe exited his abdomen!

That would be far messier than the wound in the video.

[Ethereal]

This is perhaps, the stupidest thing you have written.

Finicum had his hands up and visible the whole time. Finicum was murdered by two, or possible three police.

The drug perp's hands were not visible until after he was shot.

You are simply wrong.
No, he's 100% right. The only justified use of deadly force by police is in response to a proportionate threat that has been positively identified. No positive identification occurred, therefore the shooting was negligent at best.

[Crepitus]

When did it become the responsibility of the public to not get shot by the police?

Never.

[resister]

What would you have done? How many times did you watch the video before you started to draw correct conclusions?

She had about 1.5 seconds. You had the benefit of hindsight and lots of coaching. She had about a second and a half. You had perfect observation with no distractions. She had a second and a half.

She committed no crime.
Really? A dude pancaked against the wall? Like I said earlier, if you are pulled over and your hands are not visible, by this logic you should be shot. He was a simple drug using suspect, not a violent suspect warranting elevated threat response levels.

[MisterVeritis]

No, he's 100% right. The only justified use of deadly force by police is in response to a proportionate threat that has been positively identified. No positive identification occurred, therefore the shooting was negligent at best.
Finicum was murdered in the open, on a bright day with his hands clearly in the air.

The perp was shot in a semi-dark room in an abandoned house while hiding behind a mattress propped up against a wall.

The police officer who shot the perp committed no crime.

[Ethereal]

How does she know, in that split second, whether or not he had a gun?

She doesn't know. But police are not allowed to shoot people based on unknowns, otherwise they would be able to shoot anyone and get away with it. The only rational, objective justification for employing deadly force is after a weapon and hostile intent have been positively identified.


He very well could have, then, the police officer might now be dead. Would you have preferred that?

I would prefer police have objective limitations on when they can kill people instead of just letting them shoot people based on pure speculation and fear.


Police officers have, often times, a split second to decide whether or not to shoot, they rely on their training, when confronting a criminal, they are probably trained to assume a weapon is present.

Then they are being trained by incompetents.


They have every right to defend themselves.

They have every right to defend themselves against actual threats. What they don't have the right to do is shoot people merely because they're afraid.

[MisterVeritis]

Really? A dude pancaked against the wall? Like I said earlier, if you are pulled over and your hands are not visible, by this logic you should be shot. He was a simple drug using suspect, not a violent suspect warranting elevated threat response levels.
You have the benefit of perfect hindsight and multiple opportunities to view the video. She had about a second and a half.

[Crepitus]

On those rare occasions when I have an encounter with the police I make it my business not to be shot. You might want to consider it.

Someday you may not have that option.

[MisterVeritis]

Someday you may not have that option.
With just a bit of thought it is possible to always have that option.

But then I don't use illegal drugs and hide in an abandoned house.

[Ethereal]

Finicum was murdered in the open, on a bright day with his hands clearly in the air.

The perp was shot in a semi-dark room in an abandoned house while hiding behind a mattress propped up against a wall.

The police officer who shot the perp committed no crime.

The only thing that matters is whether or not she positively identified a weapon and hostile intent, which she did not. Therefore, it was not a justified shooting.

[resister]

You have the benefit of perfect hindsight and multiple opportunities to view the video. She had about a second and a half.Evidently, to little training as well.

[Ethereal]

You have the benefit of perfect hindsight and multiple opportunities to view the video. She had about a second and a half.
It doesn't matter if she had a nanosecond. There was no positive identification. End of story.

[resister]

The only thing that matters is whether or not she positively identified a weapon and hostile intent, which she did not. Therefore, it was not a justified shooting.^ This ^ is what is most relevant!

[MisterVeritis]

The only thing that matters is whether or not she positively identified a weapon and hostile intent, which she did not. Therefore, it was not a justified shooting.
I agree it was not a justified shooting. That is not the same as proclaiming she attempted murder. Clearly she did not.

How would your story change if he had a gun and killed her in that fraction of a second his hands were not visible? "Too bad so sad".

[Crepitus]

UNLESS... the threat level warrants it! This is where training is needed. I bet many cops don't know the definition of "de-escalation".

Still should not be the first option. If the call is for an armed robbery then you go in with your second option.

[MisterVeritis]

It doesn't matter if she had a nanosecond. There was no positive identification. End of story.
Okay. I shall not discuss it further with you.

[Crepitus]

What do you believe should happen first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth...

They should have been clearing that house with tazers in hand and guns in holsters.

[MisterVeritis]

Evidently, to little training as well.
Such sanctimony.

[MisterVeritis]

They should have been clearing that house with tazers in hand and guns in holsters.
You are full of crap.

[resister]

I agree it was not a justified shooting. That is not the same as proclaiming she attempted murder. Clearly she did not.

How would your story change if he had a gun and killed her in that fraction of a second his hands were not visible? "Too bad so sad".
Key word is "if".

[Abby08]

From my perspective, after watching again, the perp was sideways, sandwiched in between the wall and mattress. I'm watching on my phone and, the lighting isn't the best, but, that's how it looked.

The shot was fired way before the mattress fell and, the cop fired before giving the guy a chance to comply with the request.

I'm wondering, if he was not facing the cop, how did he get shot in the abdomen?

I don't want to have to watch it again.

I'm waiting for the investigation.

[resister]

Such sanctimony.
I reckon you would feel different if a black sheep cousin was shot, like ethereal said, there was zero evidence of a lethal threat, he was suspected of doing dope, not armed robbery or assault.

[Ethereal]

I agree it was not a justified shooting. That is not the same as proclaiming she attempted murder. Clearly she did not.

I agree it probably wouldn't qualify as an attempted murder, but that does not mean it was a lawful shooting.


How would your story change if he had a gun and killed her in that fraction of a second his hands were not visible? "Too bad so sad".

I would say that it's horrible when anyone is needlessly killed, whether they're a police officer or a civilian. The difference is that police are paid volunteers whose ostensible role within their respective communities is to SERVE. There is a certain level of risk, including death, that they must be willing to accept in exercising their DUTY. If for some reason they feel their duty is too risky and/or difficult, then they can QUIT and find another job with more acceptable levels of risk and difficulty.

[resister]

From my perspective, after watching again, the perp was sideways, sandwiched in between the wall and mattress. I'm watching on my phone and, the lighting isn't the best, but, that's how it looked.

The shot was fired way before the mattress fell and, the cop fired before giving the guy a chance to comply with the request.

I'm wondering, if he was not facing the cop, how did he get shot in the abdomen?

I don't want to have to watch it again.

I'm waiting for the investigation.
That is what I saw, evidently our vision is good. This was a bad shooting. Period.

[MisterVeritis]

I reckon you would feel different if a black sheep cousin was shot, like ethereal said, there was zero evidence of a lethal threat, he was suspected of doing dope, not armed robbery or assault.
Your sanctimony has no excuse.

Right now, without looking write down everything that pair of officers knew as they entered the building. No cheating!

[Abby08]

Someday you may not have that option.

That's very true, you just don't know anymore.

[Doublejack]

Just pointing something out.

Zero people in this thread have said it was a justified shooting. Yet the fight continues to prove it's not a justified shooting.

lol

[Abby08]

That is what I saw, evidently our vision is good. This was a bad shooting. Period.

I had to look at it very closely, three times.

[resister]

Your sanctimony has no excuse.

Right now, without looking write down everything that pair of officers knew as they entered the building. No cheating!I know she shot to fast, cant you see this? or does your sanctimony prevent you seeing it? By your standards, cops can shoot 10's of thousands of people a day.

[MisterVeritis]

Your sanctimony has no excuse.

Right now, without looking write down everything that pair of officers knew as they entered the building. No cheating!

I know she shot to fast, cant you see this? or does your sanctimony prevent you seeing it? By your standards, cops can shoot 10's of thousands of people a day.
You did NOT answer my question.

Try again.

[Crepitus]

With just a bit of thought it is possible to always have that option.

But then I don't use illegal drugs and hide in an abandoned house.

Man Dies in Police Raid on Wrong House (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475&page=1)


http://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-police-shoot-homeowner-responding-wrong-home/story?id=39723930

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/07/31/new-jersey-cops-shoot-elderly-man-after-responding-to-wrong-home/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pittsburgh-homeowners-ex-wife-police-kill-wrong-guy-in-burglary-call/

http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/156207007-story


There are literally dozens of cases of innocent people being shot by police.

You may not always have that option.

[Crepitus]

You are full of crap.

No sir I am not.

[resister]

Your sanctimony has no excuse.

Right now, without looking write down everything that pair of officers knew as they entered the building. No cheating!
That they had a suspected drug user on there hands! Oh the horror!!

[MisterVeritis]

Man Dies in Police Raid on Wrong House (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475&page=1)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-police-shoot-homeowner-responding-wrong-home/story?id=39723930
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/07/31/new-jersey-cops-shoot-elderly-man-after-responding-to-wrong-home/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pittsburgh-homeowners-ex-wife-police-kill-wrong-guy-in-burglary-call/
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/156207007-story
There are literally dozens of cases of innocent people being shot by police.
You may not always have that option.
And there are 320 million people in the US. I live in an upscale neighborhood. Nearly every family is professional or retired. I will take my chances.

Now back to the thread.

[Ethereal]

Just pointing something out.

Zero people in this thread have said it was a justified shooting. Yet the fight continues to prove it's not a justified shooting.

lol
This sounds like an attempted justification to me:


Obviously not attempted murder jeeze. It was all of 2 seconds and clearly an accident.

Keep in mind it would have taken him the same amount of time to shoot her.

If you're going to be a criminal you might just want to not try to evade/hide/fight police. It would greatly increase your survival odds.
Claiming it was an "accident" absolves the officer of a degree of culpability, and the ensuing statements seem like attempts to blame the victim.

[Ethereal]

And there are 320 million people in the US. I live in an upscale neighborhood. Nearly every family is professional or retired. I will take my chances.

Now back to the thread.

This may come as a shock to you, but public policy doesn't revolve around how it effects you personally.

[MisterVeritis]

That they had a suspected drug user on there hands! Oh the horror!!
Did they know anything else?
Have there been any burglaries in the neighborhood? Did anybody see a weapon?

You have perfect information after the fact. And you had plenty of time to look at the video over and over until you finally drew your conclusion. She had about one and a half seconds.

[MisterVeritis]

This may come as a shock to you, but public policy doesn't revolve around how it effects you personally.
I think you should soak your head.

[Doublejack]

This sounds like an attempted justification to me:


Claiming it was an "accident" absolves the officer of a degree of culpability, and the ensuing statements seem like attempts to blame the victim.

Accident, Negligence .. it's clear she didn't murder the guy was my point.

[resister]

Your sanctimony has no excuse.

Right now, without looking write down everything that pair of officers knew as they entered the building. No cheating!

Actually I did, post screwed up. Here is what they knew, a suspected drug user was there, damn, time to shoot!

[Ethereal]

Did they know anything else?
Have there been any burglaries in the neighborhood? Did anybody see a weapon?

You have perfect information after the fact. And you had plenty of time to look at the video over and over until you finally drew your conclusion. She had about one and a half seconds.
Why do you keep pretending like the time it took her to wrongfully shoot him is at issue here? The only thing that matters is her failure to positively identify an actual threat. The idea that police can shoot someone based on pure speculation or fear is beyond asinine.

[resister]

Did they know anything else?
Have there been any burglaries in the neighborhood? Did anybody see a weapon?

You have perfect information after the fact. And you had plenty of time to look at the video over and over until you finally drew your conclusion. She had about one and a half seconds.Makes us both armchair QB's then!

[MisterVeritis]

Actually I did, post screwed up. Here is what they knew, a suspected drug user was there, damn, time to shoot!
Okay. We are done.

[Doublejack]

Why do you keep pretending like the time it took her to wrongfully shoot him is at issue here? The only thing that matters is her failure to positively identify an actual threat. The idea that police can shoot someone based on pure speculation or fear is beyond asinine.

Just as asinine as thinking police are robots.

Shit happens.

Don't be a crackhead hiding behind mattresses and your chance of being shot just dropped 99.999%

[MisterVeritis]

Why do you keep pretending like the time it took her to wrongfully shoot him is at issue here? The only thing that matters is her failure to positively identify an actual threat. The idea that police can shoot someone based on pure speculation or fear is beyond asinine.
We are already done. Fortunately, it won't be up to you.

[resister]

Why do you keep pretending like the time it took her to wrongfully shoot him is at issue here? The only thing that matters is her failure to positively identify an actual threat. The idea that police can shoot someone based on pure speculation or fear is beyond asinine.

[resister]

We are already done. Fortunately, it won't be up to you.
A non answer.

[Ethereal]

Accident, Negligence .. it's clear she didn't murder the guy was my point.
Although I would tend to agree with that assessment, it is not as "clear" as you would like it to be. Second degree murder, for example, only requires an obvious lack of concern for human life. No premeditation or planning is required. A willing and skilled prosecutor could make a convincing argument that this was the case.

[resister]

Just as asinine as thinking police are robots.

Shit happens.

Don't be a crackhead hiding behind mattresses and your chance of being shot just dropped 99.999%
Being a crackhead behind a mattress is now a 99.999% chance of being damn near killed? So much for treating drug abuse!

[Ethereal]

Just as asinine as thinking police are robots.

I don't think they're robots. I just think they should have objective limitations placed upon their ability to kill people.


$#@! happens.

That's a pretty casual attitude to take towards a life and death issue.


Don't be a crackhead hiding behind mattresses and your chance of being shot just dropped 99.999%

Don't be a police officer and your chance of being shot by a crackhead hiding behind a mattress just dropped 99.999%.

[Ethereal]

We are already done. Fortunately, it won't be up to you.
You're done. But I'm just getting started.

[Doublejack]

Being a crackhead behind a mattress is now a 99.999% chance of being damn near killed? So much for treating drug abuse!

lol

Just sayin' .. personal responsibility is the best way to not get shot by a cop.


Crackhead hiding from cops behind a mattress? Odds are going to go up.

At home eating dinner with your family? Pretty low odds.

[Doublejack]

I don't think they're robots. I just think they should have objective limitations placed upon their ability to kill people.



That's a pretty casual attitude to take towards a life and death issue.



Don't be a police officer and your chance of being shot by a crackhead hiding behind a mattress just dropped 99.999%.


Ok Etheral - we've been down this same road before.

You hate cops like cancer/aids.

I think they're necessary.

That's about it.

[MisterVeritis]

You're done. But I'm just getting started.
I am done with you. It feels good, actually.

Have at it.

[Abby08]

And there are 320 million people in the US. I live in an upscale neighborhood. Nearly every family is professional or retired. I will take my chances.

Now back to the thread.

You stay in your own neighborhood 24/7? You never go anywhere?

[Ethereal]

Ok Etheral - we've been down this same road before.

You hate cops like cancer/aids.

I think they're necessary.

That's about it.
How does wanting to place objective limitations on a police officer's ability to kill civilians engender hatred? I'd be interested to hear your theory.

[Ethereal]

I am done with you. It feels good, actually.

Have at it.

Yet you keep responding.

[MisterVeritis]

You stay in your own neighborhood 24/7? You never go anywhere?
I spent my life hopping around continents. I am very happy to stay in my very nice neighborhood.

[Dr. Who]

What would you have done? How many times did you watch the video before you started to draw correct conclusions?

She had about 1.5 seconds. You had the benefit of hindsight and lots of coaching. She had about a second and a half. You had perfect observation with no distractions. She had a second and a half.

She committed no crime.
Was there a weapon? Did anyone pull any weapon in those 1.5 seconds or was she just startled and discharged her weapons because she was already squeezing the trigger waiting for a knife-wielding addict on PCP to jump out? Her fear of being hurt by the potential felon that she imagined could be lurking in that house was in control of her trigger finger, not her training.

[MisterVeritis]

Was there a weapon? Did anyone pull any weapon in those 1.5 seconds or was she just startled and discharged her weapons because she was already squeezing the trigger waiting for a knife-wielding addict on PCP to jump out? Her fear of being hurt by the potential felon that she imagined could be lurking in that house was in control of her trigger finger, not her training.
Did you watch the video?

[Dr. Who]

Did you watch the video?
Yes.

[resister]

Did you watch the video?
Several times, even before you implied I did not, she shot a guy spread eagled on the wall, who was as much a threat as a strangers words on the net.

[MisterVeritis]

Yes.
With perfect hindsight you know the perp was not armed. The officer did not know that. All she knew is one perp, probably using drugs entered the abandoned house.

[MisterVeritis]

Several times, even before you implied I did not, she shot a guy spread eagled on the wall, who was as much a threat as a strangers words on the net.
You and I are done. Thanks for the conversation.

[Ethereal]

With perfect hindsight you know the perp was not armed. The officer did not know that. All she knew is one perp, probably using drugs entered the abandoned house.
Irrelevant.

[Dr. Who]

With perfect hindsight you know the perp was not armed. The officer did not know that. All she knew is one perp, probably using drugs entered the abandoned house.
There are all kinds of drugs MV. Many of them dull the senses and slow responses, like heroin and marijuana. Few make the user aggressive. In fact, if the user is hiding out in a house to take the drugs, it's because they need to veg for a long time after taking them, otherwise, they would duck into a restroom for a couple of minutes and then go back out on the street. People who take the kind of drugs that make them more active or even aggressive, can't sit still. Having some sense as to the behavior of users of different kinds of drugs would actually help police officers.

This dude was probably shooting something like heroin and needed a couple of hours of alone time.

[MisterVeritis]

With perfect hindsight you know the perp was not armed. The officer did not know that. All she knew is one perp, probably using drugs entered the abandoned house.

There are all kinds of drugs MV. Many of them dull the senses and slow responses, like heroin and marijuana. Few make the user aggressive. In fact, if the user is hiding out in a house to take the drugs, it's because they need to veg for a long time after taking them, otherwise, they would duck into a restroom for a couple of minutes and then go back out on the street. People who take the kind of drugs that make them more active or even aggressive, can't sit still. Having some sense as to the behavior of users of different kinds of drugs would actually help police officers.
This dude was probably shooting something like heroin and needed a couple of hours of alone time.
All the two police officers know is they probably have at least one person in the abandoned home. He may have been using drugs. They cleared the house room by room until she came upon him hiding behind a mattress propped against the wall.

She does not know the perp's history.

[resister]

There are all kinds of drugs MV. Many of them dull the senses and slow responses, like heroin and marijuana. Few make the user aggressive. In fact, if the user is hiding out in a house to take the drugs, it's because they need to veg for a long time after taking them, otherwise, they would duck into a restroom for a couple of minutes and then go back out on the street. People who take the kind of drugs that make them more active or even aggressive, can't sit still. Having some sense as to the behavior of users of different kinds of drugs would actually help police officers.

This dude was probably shooting something like heroin and needed a couple of hours of alone time.I can attest to this, having shot meth quickly in a gas station bathroom many moons ago, but choice of venue does not necessarily indicate drug choice.

[resister]

You and I are done. Thanks for the conversation.
Why?

[MisterVeritis]

Why?
Each of us has made up our minds. Neither one of us will change our positions. :-)

[Cthulhu]

Video is at link. It is not graphic but does show the shooting which, in my opinion, was a negligent discharge.

How can cops experience negligent discharges? They train with their firearms constantly for just this type of scenario.

You can hear her say "$#@!" after she shot him knowing she $#@!ed up.

She should be charged with attempted murder/manslaughter and stripped of her badge for life.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1488490804

P.S. While the cop was white and the victim black this is not a racial thread rather yet one more example of how the militarization and entitlement of our police has become a national threat. Those who want to turn this thread into a racial discussion will be booted.
If a Marine did this, odds are he would be facing charges for manslaughter if the guy died.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[resister]

Each of us has made up our minds. Neither one of us will change our positions. :-)Fair enough, see you around :-)

[Cthulhu]

I see it the other way around. I believe you are sympathetic to the perp because you use illegal drugs just as he did.

A non-drug user would simply watch the events unfold and draw a reasonable conclusion. An illegal drug user would come to a different conclusion.
Not a drug user - Mormon.

This was not a good shoot.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Dr. Who]

I can attest to this, having shot meth quickly in a gas station bathroom many moons ago, but choice of venue does not necessarily indicate drug choice.
Breaking into an abandoned house for an activity that takes a couple of seconds doesn't make much sense unless a group of people are looking to party. On the other hand, if a lone addict needs to hide out for a while, an abandoned house makes sense. He either can't take the drugs at home, or he has no home and he would get busted for being semi-comatose on heroin in an alley somewhere with his gear around him to convict him of possession.

[resister]

Breaking into an abandoned house for an activity that takes a couple of seconds doesn't make much sense unless a group of people are looking to party. On the other hand, if a lone addict needs to hide out for a while, an abandoned house makes sense. He either can't take the drugs at home, or he has no home and he would get busted for being semi-comatose on heroin in an alley somewhere with his gear around him to convict him of possession.
Sounds reasonable, never shot downers or been homeless, mostly shot at home or on the river. As it was meth, about 3 shots in 24 hours for a 3 day run before crashing, thank GOD it is over. This summer makes 3 years with out touching it. Kinda a drunk though, seems tame by comparison. No other drugs except very light reefer.

Really considering giving up beer, my liver and wallet and life would likely prosper.
Don't do liquor.

[Cthulhu]

There has to be consequences to actions. She was nervous or it was an accident doesn't cut it when it comes to taking another's life. Murder is murder.
This was a bad shoot.

However it isn't an attempted murder.

She sounded nervous and afraid when the shot fired. Understandable.

However, she shot someone. Can't let stuff like that go. She didn't give him any time to step up comply and that was her error.

Assault with deadly weapon charge for sure, manslaughter if he died. And definitely fire her for incompetence.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Green Arrow]

I'll wait to see what the investigation findings are.

You don't need to, it's right there in the video.

[Dr. Who]

Sounds reasonable, never shot downers or been homeless, mostly shot at home or on the river. As it was meth, about 3 shots in 24 hours for a 3 day run before crashing, thank GOD it is over. This summer makes 3 years with out touching it. Kinda a drunk though, seems tame by comparison. No other drugs except very light reefer.

Really considering giving up beer, my liver and wallet and life would likely prosper.
Don't do liquor.
I moved to "the big city" to go to school when I was 18. I saw all kinds of users, not that I didn't try a few things myself, but didn't like it. It became apparent that nothing ever matches the first time, so it's a case of taking more for diminishing returns. I have a high metabolism. It simply wasn't worth it and I didn't like the feeling of an alternate reality. I have no issues with weed, but it makes me sleepy so unless I have insomnia, I'm not all that interested. I do like a glass of red wine however. Anyway, I was studying art, so the circle of friends and acquaintances was pretty eclectic and at the time there were a lot of different drugs around. Different than the basement lab stuff you see today. I did try meth (called speed back then) a couple of times, but again, diminishing returns and it makes you paranoid. Not a great feeling IMO. There were plenty of 'speed freaks' around though. I could spot them a mile away. Talk about can't sit still - positively hyperactive and often looked like death warmed over. Tended to have the shakes, probably from not eating much and not sleeping. Still, they didn't look as bad as crack addicts look today.

[Abby08]

You don't need to, it's right there in the video.

Things don't always turn out the way you think they should.

[resister]

I have radar for "crankster ganksters" A sixth sense of who to avoid. 90 % are pale, skinny got crank bug sores and cant not jibber jabber incessantly. A general sickly look is present also. Staying up days on end with little food or water and increasing doses of toxicity have that effect.

[DGUtley]

This is perhaps, the stupidest thing you have written.

Finicum had his hands up and visible the whole time. Finicum was murdered by two, or possible three police. The drug perp's hands were not visible until after he was shot.

You are simply wrong.
Warning! Stop insulting people.

[Adelaide]

Another ridiculous rant by someone who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

You widened the discussion to the inicum murder and then described them, incorrectly as the same.

Stupid. Very, very stupid.

Discuss the topic, not each other and no personal insults.

[donttread]

Video is at link. It is not graphic but does show the shooting which, in my opinion, was a negligent discharge.

How can cops experience negligent discharges? They train with their firearms constantly for just this type of scenario.

You can hear her say "Shit" after she shot him knowing she fucked up.

She should be charged with attempted murder/manslaughter and stripped of her badge for life.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1488490804

P.S. While the cop was white and the victim black this is not a racial thread rather yet one more example of how the militarization and entitlement of our police has become a national threat. Those who want to turn this thread into a racial discussion will be booted.


I'm so shocked to see that townies were involved, again. On the other hand she had a split second choice and the man had refused to comply with orders. Not a "good shoot" but perhaps an understandable one. One caused in the first place by good old prohibition.
No drug law, no call, no call, no tresspass, no tresspass no shooting.

[MisterVeritis]

Not a drug user - Mormon.
This was not a good shoot.

I assume you mean you are not a drug user. Okay.
Not a good shoot doesn't mean she attempted murder. I do not see a crime. I do believe this ends her usefulness as a police officer.

[MisterVeritis]

Given several warnings that does it for me. I am out.

[Private Pickle]

I'm so shocked to see that townies were involved, again. On the other hand she had a split second choice and the man had refused to comply with orders. Not a "good shoot" but perhaps an understandable one. One caused in the first place by good old prohibition.
No drug law, no call, no call, no tresspass, no tresspass no shooting.
I really don't understand how it's understandable that a cop puts a period on the end of her command with a bullet.

[Cthulhu]

I really don't understand how it's understandable that a cop puts a period on the end of her command with a bullet.
That is my hang up.

"Show me your ha-" then the shot fired.

The video shows the guy wasn't given a chance to comply.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Private Pickle]

That is my hang up.

"Show me your ha-" then the shot fired.

The video shows the guy wasn't given a chance to comply.

Fear profits a man nothing.
Agreed. And she knew she "jumped the gun".

[donttread]

I really don't understand how it's understandable that a cop puts a period on the end of her command with a bullet.

Well she had a right to expect trouble as he had not complied. She has a split second to guess if he's continuing to hide, coming out or drawing a weapon. But ultimately unenforceable discriminatory prohbitions laws can rack up another victim here.

[rcfieldz]

Nobody incompetent here. Just protecting the public and themselves from a guy who lost his senses.
SUSPECT WIELDING 'LARGE PIPE'

http://abc7.com/news/suspect-wielding-large-pipe-shot-killed-by-police-in-downtown-lapd-says/1785073/

[resister]

Nobody incompetent here. Just protecting the public and themselves from a guy who lost his senses.
SUSPECT WIELDING 'LARGE PIPE'

http://abc7.com/news/suspect-wielding-large-pipe-shot-killed-by-police-in-downtown-lapd-says/1785073/
sounds like a great idea for your very own thread!