Of Course Trump Was Surveilled

[Ethereal]

In 2013, NSA/CIA contractor, Edward Snowden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden), leaked a trove of NSA documents and files to investigative journalists Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald. It exposed the existence of several mass surveillance programs that were collecting, processing, and storing the electronic communications of virtually every American in the country. Before this program was exposed, James Clapper, then the Director of National Intelligence, was questioned by Democratic Senator, Ron Wyden of Oregon, about the existence of such a program. Clapper LIED under oath, denying that any such program existed:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmo0hUWJ08

Around that same time, Donald Trump was calling Snowden a "traitor" for what he did. How ironic, then, that Trump claims to be a victim of the very policies that Snowden exposed.

Yet there is something deceptive about this whole debate, because it's being filtered through the respective partisan lens of each side.

On the one hand, Democrats are claiming: Never happened. James Clapper, THE LIAR, told us so.

And on the other hand, Republicans are claiming: Obama personally directed Trump's communications to be tapped.

NEITHER of these narratives are fully accurate.

While it is almost certain that Trump's communications were being monitored, processed, and stored by the NSA, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S, it is almost certain that Obama did not direct this process personally, since the mass surveillance architecture that would have been monitoring Trump was put in place by the Bush administration in response to 9/11.

AS USUAL, silly, self-serving partisan narratives manage to overlook the fundamental truth at the heart of this matter, i.e., the US government is spying, not just on poor little Donald Trump, but on EVERYONE.

THAT is what really matters here, but partisans have taken these truths and twisted them for their own selfish reasons.

[Crepitus]

In 2013, NSA/CIA contractor, Edward Snowden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden), leaked a trove of NSA documents and files to investigative journalists Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald. It exposed the existence of several mass surveillance programs that were collecting, processing, and storing the electronic communications of virtually every American in the country. Before this program was exposed, James Clapper, then the Director of National Intelligence, was questioned by Democratic Senator, Ron Wyden of Oregon, about the existence of such a program. Clapper LIED under oath, denying that any such program existed:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmo0hUWJ08

Around that same time, Donald Trump was calling Snowden a "traitor" for what he did. How ironic, then, that Trump claims to be a victim of the very policies that Snowden exposed.

Yet there is something deceptive about this whole debate, because it's being filtered through the respective partisan lens of each side.

On the one hand, Democrats are claiming: Never happened. James Clapper, THE LIAR, told us so.

And on the other hand, Republicans are claiming: Obama personally directed Trump's communications to be tapped.

NEITHER of these narratives are fully accurate.

While it is almost certain that Trump's communications were being monitored, processed, and stored by the NSA, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S, it is almost certain that Obama did not direct this process personally, since the mass surveillance architecture that would have been monitoring Trump was put in place by the Bush administration in response to 9/11.

AS USUAL, silly, self-serving partisan narratives manage to overlook the fundamental truth at the heart of this matter, i.e., the US government is spying, not just on poor little Donald Trump, but on EVERYONE.

THAT is what really matters here, but partisans have taken these truths and twisted them for their own selfish reasons.

This is actually a very cogent point. Stripped of the partisan descriptors that is.

[Ethereal]

This is actually a very cogent point. Stripped of the partisan descriptors that is.
Partisan descriptors?

[Casper]

In 2013, NSA/CIA contractor, Edward Snowden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden), leaked a trove of NSA documents and files to investigative journalists Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald. It exposed the existence of several mass surveillance programs that were collecting, processing, and storing the electronic communications of virtually every American in the country. Before this program was exposed, James Clapper, then the Director of National Intelligence, was questioned by Democratic Senator, Ron Wyden of Oregon, about the existence of such a program. Clapper LIED under oath, denying that any such program existed:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmo0hUWJ08

Around that same time, Donald Trump was calling Snowden a "traitor" for what he did. How ironic, then, that Trump claims to be a victim of the very policies that Snowden exposed.

Yet there is something deceptive about this whole debate, because it's being filtered through the respective partisan lens of each side.

On the one hand, Democrats are claiming: Never happened. James Clapper, THE LIAR, told us so.

And on the other hand, Republicans are claiming: Obama personally directed Trump's communications to be tapped.

NEITHER of these narratives are fully accurate.

While it is almost certain that Trump's communications were being monitored, processed, and stored by the NSA, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S, it is almost certain that Obama did not direct this process personally, since the mass surveillance architecture that would have been monitoring Trump was put in place by the Bush administration in response to 9/11.

AS USUAL, silly, self-serving partisan narratives manage to overlook the fundamental truth at the heart of this matter, i.e., the US government is spying, not just on poor little Donald Trump, but on EVERYONE.

THAT is what really matters here, but partisans have taken these truths and twisted them for their own selfish reasons.
A reminder, the "spying" was on what numbers were called not the conversations, one had to have probable cause showing someone was in contact with terrorist groups before any conversations were tapped. So, the whole, everyone is being spied on" is not what it seems to the uninitiated and uninformed. Trump was not having his phone calls taped, and it is up t the one making the claim to back it up with facts and evidence. Tell me how is it he make the claim and yet have Zero proof of it? Face it the trump shot off his mouth before getting all the facts, let's hope he does not shoot off anything else such as a nuke before he gets the facts first.

[Crepitus]

Partisan descriptors?

Ok, maybe calling Clapper names wasn't really all that partisan

[Subdermal]

I understand the point of the thread - and I'll agree with lots of it - but it's also obvious that the (purported) actions against Trump rise to a much higher level: FISA sanctioned wire-taps.

That's not the same run-of-the-mill general listening/algorithm triggering of an Echelon-type program. It's personal and requires far more invasive action to perpetrate.

[Ethereal]

A reminder, the "spying" was on what numbers were called not the conversations...

According to who? The liars who covered these programs up for years? How about, instead of taking their word for it, we simply look at the documents they produced in secret? Let's start with the internal NSA document that describes the agency's "collection posture":


‘No Place to Hide’ by Glenn Greenwald, on the NSA’s sweeping efforts to ‘Know it All’ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-place-to-hide-by-glenn-greenwald-on-the-nsas-sweeping-efforts-to-know-it-all/2014/05/12/dfa45dee-d628-11e3-8a78-8fe50322a72c_story.html?utm_term=.51a340a077f8)

...In one remarkable slide presented at a 2011 meeting of five nations’ intelligence agencies and revealed here for the first time, the NSA described its “collection posture” as “Collect it All,” “Process it All,” “Exploit it All,” “Partner it All,” “Sniff it All” and, ultimately, “Know it All.”

Collect it ALL. That is the NSA's own description of its "collection posture". Notice how they do not say "Collect SOME of It" or "Collect Only the Metadata". And, of course, the metadata collection program was merely one out of many such programs exposed by Snowden. It was just the first and most reported on revelation, but there were many other programs that showed the NSA was tapped into the internet backbone as well as the servers of major tech companies like Google and Facebook.


...one had to have probable cause showing someone was in contact with terrorist groups before any conversations were tapped. So, the whole, everyone is being spied on" is not what it seems to the uninitiated and uninformed. Trump was not having his phone calls taped, and it is up t the one making the claim to back it up with facts and evidence. Tell me how is it he make the claim and yet have Zero proof of it? Face it the trump shot off his mouth before getting all the facts, let's hope he does not shoot off anything else such as a nuke before he gets the facts first.

There were MANY other programs exposed by the Snowden leaks aside from the collection of so-called metadata. The NSA themselves describe their own "collection posture" as "Collect It All" and "Know It All". It's also been shown that the NSA and British GCHQ were circumventing their domestic laws by "Partnering It All", that is, letting the Brits spy on Americans and vice versa.

Ultimately, there is ZERO reason to believe they are not spying on everyone and everything and every reason to believe they are. Their self-serving denials should be viewed as obvious lies meant to cover up their malfeasance and corruption.

[Ethereal]

I understand the point of the thread - and I'll agree with lots of it - but it's also obvious that the (purported) actions against Trump rise to a much higher level: FISA sanctioned wire-taps.

That's not the same run-of-the-mill general listening/algorithm triggering of an Echelon-type program. It's personal and requires far more invasive action to perpetrate.

Why would that be necessary when the NSA has already effectively hacked into virtually every major node and link within our telecommunications infrastructure?

[Subdermal]

Why would that be necessary when the NSA has already effectively hacked into virtually every major node and link within our telecommunications infrastructure?

I guess that's the question. I think there's a difference between running a program which keys on certain words across an entire telecommunications infrastructure, and consciously arranging an apparatus which preemptively records every word from a specific source.

I don't know enough about it. I'm guessing few really understand the technological capabilities in place.

[Ethereal]

I guess that's the question. I think there's a difference between running a program which keys on certain words across an entire telecommunications infrastructure, and consciously arranging an apparatus which preemptively records every word from a specific source.

I don't know enough about it. I'm guessing few really understand the technological capabilities in place.
NSA documents prove they have essentially hacked into everything important and have the ability to collect and store virtually all internet traffic. And given their stated desire to collect it ALL, it seems only reasonable to assume that's exactly what they're doing. The FISA court, which is supposed to be a limitation on what they can do, is nothing more than a rubber stamp (http://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/191226106/fisa-court-appears-to-be-rubberstamp-for-government-requests).

[resister]

The intelligence communities are the scum of the universe! The patriot act removed any vestige of oversight.

[Green Arrow]

I don't have anything to say. Your analysis is very thorough and unbiased, Ethereal. I agree with your take.

[midcan5]

The only thing one can glean from Trump's latest off the wall tweets is that the man is in over his head and is even below simple incompetence. This is the president and he makes shat up or gets his info from internet sites. A few people today told me they think he will resign, that he simply cannot do the job and may be beginning to realize that. And these people were for Trump before now. Only the totally brainwashed partisan can consider Trump competent enough to be pres. But Pence is a religious bigot and the republicans would then screw Americans worse than Bannon - the real president - would. "On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

[Green Arrow]

The only thing one can glean from Trump's latest off the wall tweets is that the man is in over his head and is even below simple incompetence. This is the president and he makes shat up or gets his info from internet sites. A few people today told me they think he will resign, that he simply cannot do the job and may be beginning to realize that. And these people were for Trump before now. Only the totally brainwashed partisan can consider Trump competent enough to be pres. But Pence is a religious bigot and the republicans would then screw Americans worse than Bannon - the real president - would. "On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

And once again, midcan rambles off topic and posts someone else's words.

[Dr. Who]

I know one thing, my European employer won't allow any non-American data to be stored in the US because of the NSA.

[Peter1469]

Many businesses are storing data off shore.

[HawkTheSlayer]

I know one thing, my European employer won't allow any non-American data to be stored in the US because of the NSA.
Daussault?

[resister]

The only thing one can glean from Trump's latest off the wall tweets is that the man is in over his head and is even below simple incompetence. This is the president and he makes shat up or gets his info from internet sites. A few people today told me they think he will resign, that he simply cannot do the job and may be beginning to realize that. And these people were for Trump before now. Only the totally brainwashed partisan can consider Trump competent enough to be pres. But Pence is a religious bigot and the republicans would then screw Americans worse than Bannon - the real president - would. "On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken
You should write novels, I have not heard one Trump voter less than thrilled. As partisan as you seem to be, I doubt you have little to do with Trump voters. Cool story Bro!

[resister]

And once again, midcan rambles off topic and posts someone else's words.
To be expected from a hyper partisan still sporting an airbrushed pic of hilarious as a funny avatar!

[Dr. Who]

Daussault?
No. A much larger organization. I can't reveal the name. It's in the Forbes 500.

[MMC]

The Government’s Intelligence Wiki Might Be a Lockbox for Russian-Hacking Secrets.....


Analysts reportedly tucked classified information about Russian election meddling inside Intellipedia for safekeeping.


Built on the same software platform as Wikipedia, Intellipedia’s articles are often cribbed directly from the free encyclopedia, but with sensitive classified information added by analysts. “About everything that happens of significance, there’s an Intellipedia page on,” Sean Dennehy, one of the site’s founders, told The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/26/AR2009082603606.html) in 2009. An article about the terrorist attack in Mumbai was filled with sensitive information before it was reported in the popular press, Dennehy said.


Unlike on Wikipedia, Intellipedia edits are tied to analysts’ identities. “We want people to establish a reputation,” said Thomas Fingar, the former Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Analysis at ODNI, at an event (http://www.cfr.org/intelligence/intelligence-reform-rush-transcript-federal-news-service/p15754) at the Council of Foreign Relations in 2008. “If you’re really good, we want people to know you’re good. If you’re making contributions, we want that known. If you’re an idiot, we want that known too.”


Perhaps the best real-world example of how analysts use Intellipedia came in a recent story about Palantir (https://theintercept.com/2017/02/22/how-peter-thiels-palantir-helped-the-nsa-spy-on-the-whole-world/), the secretive tech contractor led by Peter Thiel, published last month in The Intercept. Documents leaked by Snowden included pages from an internal wiki maintained by GCHQ, the NSA’s British counterpart, which included a link to a page about Palantir on Intellipedia. Other Intellipedia pages in Snowden’s leaks included links to other Palantir programs that the NSA uses, suggesting that the wiki is sometimes used for sharing technical information about intelligence software......snip~


http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/03/governments-intelligence-wiki-might-be-lockbox-russian-hacking-secrets/135885/?oref=d-river


BO peeps people left bread crumbs and their names. So we should be able to find out if what they left was valid, or if they were just acting like idiots.

[MisterVeritis]

The only thing one can glean from Trump's latest off the wall tweets is that the man is in over his head and is even below simple incompetence. This is the president and he makes shat up or gets his info from internet sites. A few people today told me they think he will resign, that he simply cannot do the job and may be beginning to realize that. And these people were for Trump before now. Only the totally brainwashed partisan can consider Trump competent enough to be pres. But Pence is a religious bigot and the republicans would then screw Americans worse than Bannon - the real president - would. "On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken
It is possible you are right. So I am calling on President Trump to downgrade the classification of the last year's FISA requests and the last 18 months of the Obama presidential daily briefings so the Senate and House Intelligence Committees can see them. Once the committees have seen the requests and daily briefings we should know, with certainty what the facts are.