Smell Test?

[patrickt]

Given our federal government's track record on wiretapping and bugging citizens, from Martin Luther King on up through AP reporters, how do you consider the claim that the Obama administration wiretapped Donald Trump? Does it pass the smell test and allow for you to read and see what happened or is it so outrageous it fails the smell test?

I suppose in a sense this is a poll on the perception of ethical standards in Washington.

[Crepitus]

No, they fail the basic "smell test".

It is nothing but one of Trump's midnight paranoia rants. His team is running with it because it makes a good story/distraction.

Garbage, nothing more.

[Peter1469]

Yes, and there is already proof of it.

[patrickt]

No, they fail the basic "smell test".

It is nothing but one of Trump's midnight paranoia rants. His team is running with it because it makes a good story/distraction.

Garbage, nothing more.

I thought I made the poll simple enough but apparently not. So, I'll explain just in case you want to consider. The poll isn't about Donald Trump. The poll is about whether the reputation of the government, including Barack Obama's administration, for wiretapping and bugging citizens is such that an allegation would pass a smell test.

Care to reconsider?

[Crepitus]

A Conspiracy Theory’s Journey From Talk Radio to Trump’s Twitter (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-twitter-talk-radio-conspiracy-theory.html)



It began at 6 p.m. Thursday as a conspiratorial rant on conservative talk radio: President Barack Obama had used the “instrumentalities of the federal government” to wiretap the Republican seeking to succeed him. This “is the big scandal,” Mark Levin, the host, told his listeners.By Friday morning, the unsubstantiated allegation had been picked up by Breitbart News, the site once headed by President Trump’s chief strategist, Stephen K. Bannon. Less than 24 hours later, the president embraced the conspiracy in a series of Twitter posts.....

And there's the truth of it folks.

[resister]

No, they fail the basic "smell test".

It is nothing but one of Trump's midnight paranoia rants. His team is running with it because it makes a good story/distraction.

Garbage, nothing more.
Great faith in gov.

[Crepitus]

I thought I made the poll simple enough but apparently not. So, I'll explain just in case you want to consider. The poll isn't about Donald Trump. The poll is about whether the reputation of the government, including Barack Obama's administration, for wiretapping and bugging citizens is such that an allegation would pass a smell test.

Care to reconsider?

No, the way you are phrasing it now is nothing more than an attempt to gain legitimacy for this stupid conspiracy theory.

[Chris]

A Conspiracy Theory’s Journey From Talk Radio to Trump’s Twitter (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-twitter-talk-radio-conspiracy-theory.html)




And there's the truth of it folks.

You're of course entitled to your opinion.

[Peter1469]

The funny thing is that Obama's spokesman said Obama didn't order any wiretaps.

That leaves a lot of room for wiretaps.

[Trish]

Nope - that's my answer. I may have considered there was a version of the truth possibly there but Trump lies so much and he only believes very right wing conspiracy information outlets. I am becoming completing frustrated with the lack of common sense coming out of this White House and this President seems more and more unstable. I find it's rather frightening.

[Crepitus]

You're of course entitled to your opinion.

As are you.

However none of us get our own facts, and they are laid out in the link.

[Chris]

As are you.

However none of us get our own facts, and they are laid out in the link.

Ping me when you have some facts.

[Crepitus]

Ping me when you have some facts.

Oh Look!

Facts!


It began at 6 p.m. Thursday as a conspiratorial rant on conservative talk radio: President Barack Obama had used the “instrumentalities of the federal government” to wiretap the Republican seeking to succeed him. This “is the big scandal,” Mark Levin, the host, told his listeners.By Friday morning, the unsubstantiated allegation had been picked up by Breitbart News, the site once headed by President Trump’s chief strategist, Stephen K. Bannon. Less than 24 hours later, the president embraced the conspiracy in a series of Twitter posts

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-twitter-talk-radio-conspiracy-theory.html

[Chris]

Oh Look!

Facts!



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-twitter-talk-radio-conspiracy-theory.html


Let me be more specific, ping me when you get facts pertaining to the question at hand. A record of when the media picked up on the story is irrelevant.

[Crepitus]

Let me be more specific, ping me when you get facts pertaining to the question at hand. A record of when the media picked up on the story is irrelevant.

OhKay, let me be more specific then.

The media didn't "pick up" on the story, Mark Levin invented it. Trump heard about it (he's a big fan of the conspiracy theory heavy conservative "news") and tweeted it.

Boom, instant scandal created out of whole cloth with no basis in reality.

[Common]

OhKay, let me be more specific then.

The media didn't "pick up" on the story, Mark Levin invented it. Trump heard about it (he's a big fan of the conspiracy theory heavy conservative "news") and tweeted it.

Boom, instant scandal created out of whole cloth with no basis in reality.
Links ???

[Common]

The govt is capable of bugging anyone along with other govts. Snowden, wikileaks, Hillarys Emails.

Anyone who believes it does not pass the smell test is naive

[Crepitus]

Links ???

I already posted it twice, can you not scroll back a few posts?

[Chris]

OhKay, let me be more specific then.

The media didn't "pick up" on the story, Mark Levin invented it. Trump heard about it (he's a big fan of the conspiracy theory heavy conservative "news") and tweeted it.

Boom, instant scandal created out of whole cloth with no basis in reality.


It is a fact the NYT claimed that, but that is the NYT's opinion.

Ping me when you have facts pertaining to the question at hand.

[Archer0915]

YES, it passes but it was not limited to Trump Tower.

We already know the monitoring goes on and FISA requests were made, and approved. Smell Test? I say it passes an initial visual inspection and just needs a detailed inspection.

[resister]

Can some one say "stingray" If local yokels have these and use them in secrecy, what the sam hell makes people think the fed aint going far beyond that.

People with such great faith in the basic goodness of gov. are hopelessy lost!

[Safety]

It's simple really...either Trump lied and that is devastating upon itself, or he's telling the truth and there is something that the FISA court saw that gave them reason to wiretap him.

Either scenario is not looking good for him.

[patrickt]

No, the way you are phrasing it now is nothing more than an attempt to gain legitimacy for this stupid conspiracy theory.
Sorry you can't get it but it isn't my problem.

[patrickt]

Nope - that's my answer. I may have considered there was a version of the truth possibly there but Trump lies so much and he only believes very right wing conspiracy information outlets. I am becoming completing frustrated with the lack of common sense coming out of this White House and this President seems more and more unstable. I find it's rather frightening.
The issue isn't whether or not Trump lies. The issue is whether or not the government has a 65-year or so history of wiretapping and bugging Americans. It's a simple issue for all except liberals who can't see beyond today and their rewriting of history. We know for a fact the government wiretapped Martin Luther King. We know for a fact that under President Nixon there was an attempt to bug/wiretap the Democrat campaign headquarters. We know for a fact that under President Obama there was wiretapping against journalists. None of that is in question.

Now, the question, simple even for liberals, is that given their track record, would an accusation pass the smell test and merit investigation or not?

I realize for Crepitus nothing passes the smell test. The sense of smell seems to disappear after some point with political hacks.

[Evmetro]

I suppose in a sense this is a poll on the perception of ethical standards in Washington.

I was able to read and understand your opening post and see that this thread was not meant to be a partisan debate of if Obama bugged Trump. I do not trust the ethical standards of Washington one bit, regardless of which party is in power.

[Chris]

It's simple really...either Trump lied and that is devastating upon itself, or he's telling the truth and there is something that the FISA court saw that gave them reason to wiretap him.

Either scenario is not looking good for him.

False dilemma. The latter horn is not necessarily true. Other possibilities is Trump say something he believed true....

[Safety]

False dilemma. The latter horn is not necessarily true. Other possibilities is Trump say something he believed true....

I'm sure that's the new way of saying people don't lie, but I know better. I can say I own the internet, and it's not a lie if I believe it.

Ok.

[Crepitus]

It is a fact the NYT claimed that, but that is the NYT's opinion.

Ping me when you have facts pertaining to the question at hand.

Ah denial.

It's not just a river in egypt.

[Crepitus]

Sorry you can't get it but it isn't my problem.

Lol, I saw right through you and now you are trying to play it off.

Good luck with that.

[Chris]

Ah denial.

It's not just a river in egypt.

You're no good at this, are you. Signing out of wasted time....

[Crepitus]

It's simple really...either Trump lied and that is devastating upon itself, or he's telling the truth and there is something that the FISA court saw that gave them reason to wiretap him.

Either scenario is not looking good for him.

Point!

[Crepitus]

You're no good at this, are you. Signing out of wasted time....

Cool, insults from a mod.

Have a nice day.

[Chris]

I'm sure that's the new way of saying people don't lie, but I know better. I can say I own the internet, and it's not a lie if I believe it.

Ok.


I'm sure that's the new way of saying people don't lie, but I know better.

How did you arrive from my post to that odd interpretation?


I can say I own the internet, and it's not a lie if I believe it.

Lies require intent.

[Chris]

Cool, insults from a mod.

Have a nice day.

Comment on your posts.

[Safety]

How did you arrive from my post to that odd interpretation?



Lies require intent.

So, there's no way of knowing if someone on the internet lies, because one can't possibly know their intent.

[Chris]

So, there's no way of knowing if someone on the internet lies, because one can't possibly know their intent.

If so then don't argue from unknowns.

The question here is did Trump lie. You don't know.

[Casper]

So, there's no way of knowing if someone on the internet lies, because one can't possibly know their intent.

I see it this way, if they do not want to explain their intent then they leave it up to the readers to come up with their own conclusion as to their intent. Usually Lies are used to cover up some wrong doing, and that is the most obvious conclusion most will come to.

[AZ Jim]

Yes, and there is already proof of it.Link us to the proof!!!!

[AZ Jim]

Since this is a heavily right wing forum, I didn't vote. I'll go with the Arizona poll which shows 86% say it's a fake story. This is a republican state and the vote here is good enough for me.

[patrickt]

I want to apologize for starting this thread. I thought the poll was simple enough for everyone but obviously I was wrong.

[Subdermal]

You're of course entitled to your opinion.
Unfounded, personal and subjective as it may be. :D

[Chris]

Since this is a heavily right wing forum, I didn't vote. I'll go with the Arizona poll which shows 86% say it's a fake story. This is a republican state and the vote here is good enough for me.

Untrue.

[Subdermal]

It's simple really...either Trump lied and that is devastating upon itself, or he's telling the truth and there is something that the FISA court saw that gave them reason to wiretap him.

Either scenario is not looking good for him.

You spelled 'simplistic' wrong. You also don't recognize a False Dichotomy.

[Subdermal]

Since this is a heavily right wing forum, I didn't vote. I'll go with the Arizona poll which shows 86% say it's a fake story. This is a republican state and the vote here is good enough for me.

It only appears "heavily right wing" to you due to the fact that those on the right dominate in debates.

[AZ Jim]

Untrue.Tell us what's "untrue" genius!!

[suds00]

c'mon people now,spy on your brother......

[Chris]

Tell us what's "untrue" genius!!

I highlighted it in your post: "a heavily right wing forum."

How do I know? Because the right wingers say it's a heavily left wing forum.

https://s21.postimg.org/kl31wcirb/balance_beam_o.gif

[Safety]

I highlighted it in your post: "a heavily right wing forum."

How do I know? Because the right wingers say it's a heavily left wing forum.

https://s21.postimg.org/kl31wcirb/balance_beam_o.gif

I haven't seen any right-wingers say that after the recent purge of members or those that have significantly stopped posting.

[Chris]

I haven't seen any right-wingers say that after the recent purge of members or those that have significantly stopped posting.

I hear it all the time. To a winger even a moderate looks like an opposing partisan to you. It doesn't mean much.

[jimmyz]

A FISA request was turned down in the summer 2016 as too broad in scope. A second FISA warrant was issued in Oct 2016 to spy on the Trump team when its scope was narrowed.
Levin uses sources like the Guardian and NY Times in his presentation. - http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/03/05/mark-levin-donald-trump-barack-obama-wiretapping

[AZ Jim]

I decided to vote so we could see how heavily con this board is.

[rcfieldz]

I don't believe Trump Tower has bugs. A rat maybe.

[AZ Jim]

I highlighted it in your post: "a heavily right wing forum."

How do I know? Because the right wingers say it's a heavily left wing forum.

https://s21.postimg.org/kl31wcirb/balance_beam_o.gifCheck out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right.

[Chris]

Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right.

You voted.

What does extreme right mean to you?

[AZ Jim]

You voted.

What does extreme right mean to you?Nice try young fella, FAIL!!!

[Chris]

Nice try young fella, FAIL!!!

What does extreme right mean to you?

[AZ Jim]

What does extreme right mean to you?Pat, pat, pat, Large burp....Feel better, Chrisey?

[Chris]

Pat, pat, pat, Large burp....Feel better, Chrisey?

You seem angry.

[Chris]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: Archer0915, birddog, Common, Evmetro, FindersKeepers, jimmyz, MisterVeritis, NapRover, patrickt, Peter1469, Ravens Fan, resister, Subdermal, AZ Jim, Bethere, Casper, Crepitus, ripmeister, Trish

Are you "extreme right"?

[AZ Jim]

You seem angry.If I weren't afraid of a ban, I'd say you seem stupid. But ...............

[Tahuyaman]

What does extreme right mean to you?


Nice try young fella, FAIL!!!


Pat, pat, pat, Large burp....Feel better, Chrisey?


Extreme right to him means that you disagree.

Now. It is irrational to believe that in this particular case, our government did not conduct a function which they routinely carry out continually.

[AZ Jim]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?As you know I was referring to those voting against a bad smell. I know the democrats don't support your nonsense.

[MisterVeritis]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."
Are you "extreme right"?
Every American should be a Constitutional Conservative. I do not know what extreme right means? Was B. Franklin "extreme right"? G. Washington? Adams, Jefferson, Madison? All extreme right?

[Chris]

As you know I was referring to those voting against a bad smell. I know the democrats don't support your nonsense.

I'm an anarchist, remember, Jim?

[Peter1469]

No.

But I expect that Jim has a unique definition of extreme right.


According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?

[Chris]

So far three responses and none are extreme right.

I thought you meant extreme political right. Maybe you meant right all the time and you wrong all the time? :D

[Tahuyaman]

I know the democrats don't support your nonsense.

I'm sure Democrats are in complete mind numbing lock-step. They support using non political government agencies targeting American citizens who disagree with them on the issues.

[Archer0915]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?

I am a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. The issue is many democrats have gone so far left that they do not even know what the real right is. Anything a little less than left of center to them is a RWNJ.

[Archer0915]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?

All I said was:


YES, it passes but it was not limited to Trump Tower.

We already know the monitoring goes on and FISA requests were made, and approved. Smell Test? I say it passes an initial visual inspection and just needs a detailed inspection.

No games just what is.

[Evmetro]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?

On a political line, the left most dot says "lefty", and the right most dot says "Evmetro". This means that everybody on this forum is to my left. Chris, you are further left than the average lefty here realizes.

[Chris]

On a political line, the left most dot says "lefty", and the right most dot says "Evmetro". This means that everybody on this forum is to my left. Chris, you are further left than the average lefty here realizes.

OK, so we have so far one supposed extreme righty, supposed because he says that on other forums he plays the left.

I don't claim to be extreme right or even right, Jim did. From my perspective the left/right dichotomy is false.

[patrickt]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."
I'm a fiscal conservative. I think gays deserve all Constitutional rights, no more and no less, I respect and admire all Americans regardless of their religion, race, ethnic heritage, or gender preference, and I respect immigrants who come here to work and be Americans.

I am certainly not a liberal and I'm not a Republican.

Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?

[Tahuyaman]

But I expect that Jim has a unique definition of extreme right.


I suspect not. If you tell him "I disagree", you are an extremist.

[NapRover]

I'm far right, but not extreme. Extreme would be unwilling to compromise. I'm open to other ideas and (for the last few months) no longer anal about it.

[Ravens Fan]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: Archer0915, birddog, Common, Evmetro, FindersKeepers, jimmyz, MisterVeritis, NapRover, patrickt, Peter1469, Ravens Fan, resister, Subdermal, AZ Jim, Bethere, Casper, Crepitus, ripmeister, Trish

Are you "extreme right"?

Nope. I'm pretty middle of the road with a slight right leaning, IMO. But I have been called right wing by those on the left and left wing by those on the the right. Just depends which issue we are arguing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Captain Obvious]

1) It wouldn't surprise me

2) I doubt it, Trump is paranoid

[Bethere]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?

Don't call me out. Jim is my friend.

[Chris]

Don't call me out.

It's a mention.

[Common]

According to Jim here "Check out the voters in this poll, then show me a single post by anyof of them that is anything other than extreme right."


Let's see what they think: @Archer0915 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=323), @birddog (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=333), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Evmetro (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2200), @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), @jimmyz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1173), @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287), @NapRover (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2018), @patrickt (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=348), @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), @Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122), @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901), @Bethere (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1988), @Casper (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1284), @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345), @ripmeister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2035), @Trish (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2158)

Are you "extreme right"?
I dont pay any attention to what Jim says

[Bethere]

It's a mention.

I'm not interested.

[Casper]

Every American should be a Constitutional Conservative. I do not know what extreme right means? Was B. Franklin "extreme right"? G. Washington? Adams, Jefferson, Madison? All extreme right?
But that would not make you right or left, funny how someone can be a Constitutionalist and not be either, it just makes them a Citizen that believes in the foundation this Nation was built upon, few grasp that simple fact.

[Casper]

Since this is a heavily right wing forum, I didn't vote. I'll go with the Arizona poll which shows 86% say it's a fake story. This is a republican state and the vote here is good enough for me.
Dude, if you do not participate then you make the site less balanced, put away the petty grievances if you really care one way or the other, otherwise why even be here? Food For Thought.

[Mister D]

For somewhat different reasons I must agree with Mister V. I have no idea what "extreme right" could possibly refer to in the US.

[Trish]

The issue isn't whether or not Trump lies. The issue is whether or not the government has a 65-year or so history of wiretapping and bugging Americans. It's a simple issue for all except liberals who can't see beyond today and their rewriting of history. We know for a fact the government wiretapped Martin Luther King. We know for a fact that under President Nixon there was an attempt to bug/wiretap the Democrat campaign headquarters. We know for a fact that under President Obama there was wiretapping against journalists. None of that is in question.

Now, the question, simple even for liberals, is that given their track record, would an accusation pass the smell test and merit investigation or not?

I realize for Crepitus nothing passes the smell test. The sense of smell seems to disappear after some point with political hacks.

Well if you take Trump out of the equation then ....... ugh.....I just can't separate the two......lies and liars; bugs and wires. Oooo, that rhymes.

Anything is possible but I like to think that secrets can't be so easily kept as they were back during the examples you site.
Also, I'm not a liberal but I do admit I lean left depending on the issue/situation.

[Dr. Who]

I thought I made the poll simple enough but apparently not. So, I'll explain just in case you want to consider. The poll isn't about Donald Trump. The poll is about whether the reputation of the government, including Barack Obama's administration, for wiretapping and bugging citizens is such that an allegation would pass a smell test.

Care to reconsider?
I don't think that there is any question that the NSA is "listening". Big Brother is watching and if you want communications to be private, you need to use snail mail or massive encryption algorithms and Virtual Private Networks (VPN) and even then your communications may not be private. You definitely shouldn't be using a cell phone. That's basically like a party line in today's world. Anyone who thinks communications are private anymore is just dreaming in technicolor. Even land lines are really digital these days. Anything that is transmitted digitally is subject to government snooping. The only question is how extensive the government snoops. If they are actually snooping all communications world-wide, I'd go back to carrier pigeon, micro dots and codes.

[Chris]

I'm not interested.

Then don't respond. So simple.

[Casper]

I don't think that there is any question that the NSA is "listening". Big Brother is watching and if you want communications to be private, you need to use snail mail or massive encryption algorithms and Virtual Private Networks (VPN) and even then your communications may not be private. You definitely shouldn't be using a cell phone. That's basically like a party line in today's world. Anyone who thinks communications are private anymore is just dreaming in technicolor. Even land lines are really digital these days. Anything that is transmitted digitally is subject to government snooping. The only question is how extensive the government snoops. If they are actually snooping all communications world-wide, I'd go back to carrier pigeon, micro dots and codes.
I seriously doubt that the government is interested in or can even expend the manpower or server space to record everyone's phone calls to their aunt Lucy. What you say is accurate in that the government does have the means to eavesdrop on our phone calls and just about any internet use, but then again why, it simply would serve no purpose. They have bigger fish to fry and besides if they were to use what they learn they would have to do so in the court system which involves rules of evidence and use of warrants, they will want all their i's dotted and t's crossed. Believe me I am not one to trust everything the government does or says but at the same time one has to deal with this rationally.

[Dr. Who]

I seriously doubt that the government is interested in or can even expend the manpower or server space to record everyone's phone calls to their aunt Lucy. What you say is accurate in that the government does have the means to eavesdrop on our phone calls and just about any internet use, but then again why, it simply would serve no purpose. They have bigger fish to fry and besides if they were to use what they learn they would have to do so in the court system which involves rules of evidence and use of warrants, they will want all their i's dotted and t's crossed. Believe me I am not one to trust everything the government does or says but at the same time one has to deal with this rationally.
The algorithms they use target keywords and the destination of the communication. Unfortunately, even if you tell a joke, accidentally using a keyword that they are looking for or happen to have relatives overseas, your communications will be scrutinized. That generally puts you on the list. Once there, your specific communications are monitored. I'm sure at some point if your communications generate no more red flags, you fall off the list. On the other hand, if you are high profile and there is enough traffic that interests them, they will find reasons to keep monitoring you. It's what they do. The higher your profile, the more potentially dangerous you might be.

[Subdermal]

I'm not interested.


He says, by responding.

[Tahuyaman]

Don't call me out. Jim is my friend.
That figures.

[resister]

I don't think that there is any question that the NSA is "listening". Big Brother is watching and if you want communications to be private, you need to use snail mail or massive encryption algorithms and Virtual Private Networks (VPN) and even then your communications may not be private. You definitely shouldn't be using a cell phone. That's basically like a party line in today's world. Anyone who thinks communications are private anymore is just dreaming in technicolor. Even land lines are really digital these days. Anything that is transmitted digitally is subject to government snooping. The only question is how extensive the government snoops. If they are actually snooping all communications world-wide, I'd go back to carrier pigeon, micro dots and codes.
It is funny as hell how dope dealers speak openly on cell phones! Have they never heard of "stingrays" ? :laugh:

[resister]

The algorithms they use target keywords and the destination of the communication. Unfortunately, even if you tell a joke, accidentally using a keyword that they are looking for or happen to have relatives overseas, your communications will be scrutinized. That generally puts you on the list. Once there, your specific communications are monitored. I'm sure at some point if your communications generate no more red flags, you fall off the list. On the other hand, if you are high profile and there is enough traffic that interests them, they will find reasons to keep monitoring you. It's what they do. The higher your profile, the more potentially dangerous you might be.
Knowing this, does it pass the smell test?

[Casper]

The algorithms they use target keywords and the destination of the communication. Unfortunately, even if you tell a joke, accidentally using a keyword that they are looking for or happen to have relatives overseas, your communications will be scrutinized. That generally puts you on the list. Once there, your specific communications are monitored. I'm sure at some point if your communications generate no more red flags, you fall off the list. On the other hand, if you are high profile and there is enough traffic that interests them, they will find reasons to keep monitoring you. It's what they do. The higher your profile, the more potentially dangerous you might be.

Actually that is not exactly how it works, I will not go into how I know that but if something is flagged and then scrutinized if applicable you do not get on any list because you used a word. Yes, they may monitor some high profile people to a degree, but it is not what some seem to think it is, we are not as far along in monitoring or the ability to follow up on it as you may think. The main goal is US security and without it we will have most assuredly have paid the price in lives and then we would have something else to complain about.

[Casper]

Knowing this, does it pass the smell test?
No, you are still stuck with no facts and only the word of those not in real control of what they say or those with agendas. When you have some actual evidence, let us know.

[resister]

No, you are still stuck with no facts and only the word of those not in real control of what they say or those with agendas. When you have some actual evidence, let us know.
Ever heard of project Echelon? There you go!

[Dr. Who]

Knowing this, does it pass the smell test?
It's been stinking since 2001.

[Trish]

It's been stinking since 2001.

That made me laugh (cheeky grin)

[Dr. Who]

Actually that is not exactly how it works, I will not go into how I know that but if something is flagged and then scrutinized if applicable you do not get on any list because you used a word. Yes, they may monitor some high profile people to a degree, but it is not what some seem to think it is, we are not as far along in monitoring or the ability to follow up on it as you may think. The main goal is US security and without it we will have most assuredly have paid the price in lives and then we would have something else to complain about.
Perhaps you have to use a few words. Nevertheless, innocent people end up on that list. I also have no doubt that people are monitored for extraneous reasons which can be explained by cover stories. Protocol and reality in government are often two different things, particularly where politics are involved. I'm sure 99% of the NSA monitoring staff are playing by the book. There are undoubtedly 1% operating with a different and secret agenda and they aren't revealing their different job description. Color me skeptical.

[resister]

Perhaps you have to use a few words. Nevertheless, innocent people end up on that list. I also have no doubt that people are monitored for extraneous reasons which can be explained by cover stories. Protocol and reality in government are often two different things, particularly where politics are involved. I'm sure 99% of the NSA monitoring staff are playing by the book. There are undoubtedly 1% operating with a different and secret agenda and they aren't revealing their different job description. Color me skeptical.
I am in this camp! Although, I think 99% is far to generous!

[Casper]

Perhaps you have to use a few words. Nevertheless, innocent people end up on that list. I also have no doubt that people are monitored for extraneous reasons which can be explained by cover stories. Protocol and reality in government are often two different things, particularly where politics are involved. I'm sure 99% of the NSA monitoring staff are playing by the book. There are undoubtedly 1% operating with a different and secret agenda and they aren't revealing their different job description. Color me skeptical.
Always possible and it is good to be skeptical, just base it on facts and not speculation, otherwise you end up going down the rabbit hole and reality does not exist there.