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Ethereal
03-06-2017, 02:48 PM
Democrats Now Demonize the Same Russia Policies that Obama Long Championed (https://theintercept.com/2017/03/06/democrats-now-demonize-the-same-russia-policies-that-obama-long-championed/)

Glenn Greenwald (https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/)

March 6 2017, 7:37 a.m.

ONE OF THE most bizarre aspects of the all-consuming Russia frenzy is the Democrats’ fixation on changes to the RNC platform concerning U.S. arming of Ukraine. The controversy began in July when the Washington Post reported that “the Trump campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces.”

Ever since then, Democrats have used this language change as evidence that Trump and his key advisers have sinister connections to Russians and corruptly do their bidding at the expense of American interests. Democratic Senator Ben Cardin, the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, spoke for many in his party when he lambasted the RNC change in a July letter to the New York Times, castigating it as “dangerous thinking” that shows Trump is controlled, or at least manipulated, by the Kremlin. Democrats resurrected this line of attack this weekend when Trump advisers acknowledged that campaign officials were behind the platform change.

This attempt to equate Trump’s opposition to arming Ukraine with some sort of treasonous allegiance to Putin masks a rather critical fact: namely, that the refusal to arm Ukraine with lethal weapons was one of Barack Obama’s most steadfastly held policies. The original Post article that reported the RNC platform change noted this explicitly:

Of course, Trump is not the only politician to oppose sending lethal weapons to Ukraine. President Obama decided not to authorize it, despite recommendations to do so from his top Europe officials in the State Department and the military.

...

Democrats, in their feverish desire to destroy Trump, have taken to demonizing the exact same policy that Obama took with regards to Russia, namely, his steadfast refusal to arm shadowy western-Ukrainian militants in the fight against nonexistent Russian aggression.

In fact, as Greenwald has pointed out before, many of the same policies (https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/whats-behind-obamas-ongoing-accommodation-of-vladimir-putin/) Obama took with regards to Russia, Trump has continued. Comically enough, Democrats were mocking Mitt Romney in 2012 for his characterization of Russia as our number one geopolitical threat:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdVQu18OWko

So in 2012, it was a ridiculous, preposterous notion for Romney to concern himself so with Russia. And throughout all of Obama's presidency, his willingness to accommodate Russia in certain things was largely ignored by Democrat partisans. But now that Trump is president, Russia has become the greatest threat in the history of man, with Hillary Clinton even going to so far as to compare him to Adolf Hitler (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03/05/hillary-clinton-says-putins-action-are-like-what-hitler-did-back-in-the-30s/?utm_term=.dbd1c2e0555b).

Obviously, this has nothing to do with principle, ideology, or any genuine national security interests. It's all about political opportunism in response to their crushing electoral defeat. That is why so many so-called "liberals" and "progressives" are aligning themselves with neocon extremists like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, Bill Kristol, etc. Nobody is immune to their epic temper tantrum, not even Obama.

Mister D
03-06-2017, 02:53 PM
They've become so irrational that I no longer bother discussing it.

decedent
03-06-2017, 02:55 PM
Trump isn't friendly with Russia for the right reasons. Russia has far too much control over America through Comrade Agent Orange.

Ethereal
03-06-2017, 02:57 PM
Trump isn't friendly with Russia for the right reasons. Russia has far too much control over America through Comrade Agent Orange.
Trump beat Democrats in the 2016 election, so no reason he gives for promoting friendship with Russia will be seen as the "right" one. Denying Democrats access to power and money is an unforgivable affront in their mind and Trump must pay the price. If that means ratcheting up tensions with a nuclear power and besmirching Obama's legacy, then so be it.

Captain Obvious
03-06-2017, 03:01 PM
They've become so irrational that I no longer bother discussing it.

Bingo

I pretty much dismiss most of it on sight at this point. The level of lies, spin and inaccuracies is laughable.

The left has virtually little to no credibility at this juncture.

decedent
03-06-2017, 03:08 PM
Trump beat Democrats in the 2016 election, so no reason he gives for promoting friendship with Russia will be seen as the "right" one. Denying Democrats access to power and money is an unforgivable affront in their mind and Trump must pay the price. If that means ratcheting up tensions with a nuclear power and besmirching Obama's legacy, then so be it.

I believe the heart of Russiagate is that Trump made a deal with Putin to lift sanctions and to ignore their military aggression. When sanctions are lifted and military aggression is ignored by the White House, I won't be surprised.


Russia is threatening Europe, mocking NATO, sending spy ships to Virginia, etc., but Trump is far more concerned about blocking flights from harmless countries.

Mister D
03-06-2017, 03:16 PM
Bingo

I pretty much dismiss most of it on sight at this point. The level of lies, spin and inaccuracies is laughable.

The left has virtually little to no credibility at this juncture.

Thankfully, this is largely confined to hacks and kooks.

Captain Obvious
03-06-2017, 03:18 PM
Thankfully, this is largely confined to hacks and kooks.

Where are the moderate or otherwise sane left?

nathanbforrest45
03-06-2017, 03:28 PM
Bingo

I pretty much dismiss most of it on sight at this point. The level of lies, spin and inaccuracies is laughable.

The left has virtually little to no credibility at this juncture.


Don't be so sure of that CO, Look at the number of Democrat Apologist on this and other boards. We are all only a drop in the bucket and only the most vocal. For every one of us that thinks the Democrats are finally showing their true colors and are only interested in remaining in power in order to expand the size and scope of government that are an equal number who honestly believe only an increase in control over "those people" can save humanity.

Any thinking person can see this is a bloodless coup being staged by the Democrats but how many thinking people are out there?

nathanbforrest45
03-06-2017, 03:29 PM
Where are the moderate or otherwise sane left?

They are out there tending their unicorn herds.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2017, 03:56 PM
Where are the moderate or otherwise sane left?
What means this odd phrase "moderate or otherwise sane left?"

Peter1469
03-06-2017, 04:00 PM
I posted an article a week or two ago that laid out side by side Obama's Russia policy with what Trump has said his policy will be. Obama looked like the pro-Russian; not Trump.

The hard left ignores the facts and continues their attacks.

MMC
03-06-2017, 04:08 PM
I believe the heart of Russiagate is that Trump made a deal with Putin to lift sanctions and to ignore their military aggression. When sanctions are lifted and military aggression is ignored by the White House, I won't be surprised.


Russia is threatening Europe, mocking NATO, sending spy ships to Virginia, etc., but Trump is far more concerned about blocking flights from harmless countries.

Yet it was John Podesta and his brother who were helping Putin get around BO peeps sanctions. The Panama Papers brought that out into the open. So where were you with all this talk about who made deals with the Russians.

Ethereal
03-06-2017, 04:34 PM
I believe the heart of Russiagate is that Trump made a deal with Putin to lift sanctions and to ignore their military aggression. When sanctions are lifted and military aggression is ignored by the White House, I won't be surprised.


Russia is threatening Europe, mocking NATO, sending spy ships to Virginia, etc., but Trump is far more concerned about blocking flights from harmless countries.
There is no evidence of such a deal, just as there is no evidence of Russian aggression. That is just a propaganda narrative being pushed by warmonger neocons and Democrat opportunists.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2017, 05:35 PM
I believe the heart of Russiagate is that Trump made a deal with Putin to lift sanctions and to ignore their military aggression. When sanctions are lifted and military aggression is ignored by the White House, I won't be surprised.


Russia is threatening Europe, mocking NATO, sending spy ships to Virginia, etc., but Trump is far more concerned about blocking flights from harmless countries.


And what do you base those feelings on? Just a hunch?

Green Arrow
03-06-2017, 08:12 PM
Spot on as usual, Ethereal.

Bethere
03-06-2017, 11:44 PM
Where are the moderate or otherwise sane left?

Feel free to speculate. Why are we less active?

resister
03-06-2017, 11:49 PM
Democrats, in their feverish desire to destroy Trump, have taken to demonizing the exact same policy that Obama took with regards to Russia, namely, his steadfast refusal to arm shadowy western-Ukrainian militants in the fight against nonexistent Russian aggression.

In fact, as Greenwald has pointed out before, many of the same policies (https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/whats-behind-obamas-ongoing-accommodation-of-vladimir-putin/) Obama took with regards to Russia, Trump has continued. Comically enough, Democrats were mocking Mitt Romney in 2012 for his characterization of Russia as our number one geopolitical threat:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdVQu18OWko

So in 2012, it was a ridiculous, preposterous notion for Romney to concern himself so with Russia. And throughout all of Obama's presidency, his willingness to accommodate Russia in certain things was largely ignored by Democrat partisans. But now that Trump is president, Russia has become the greatest threat in the history of man, with Hillary Clinton even going to so far as to compare him to Adolf Hitler (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03/05/hillary-clinton-says-putins-action-are-like-what-hitler-did-back-in-the-30s/?utm_term=.dbd1c2e0555b).

Obviously, this has nothing to do with principle, ideology, or any genuine national security interests. It's all about political opportunism in response to their crushing electoral defeat. That is why so many so-called "liberals" and "progressives" are aligning themselves with neocon extremists like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, Bill Kristol, etc. Nobody is immune to their epic temper tantrum, not even Obama.
Fascinating no leftys thanked this thread!