Why The Healthcare Bill Should And Did Fail

[Ethereal]

I read this article (http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/24/the-gops-obamacare-repeal-bill-is-dead-b) at Reason, a libertarian publication, and it explains perfectly why Trump's plan to "repeal and replace" Obamacare failed and should have failed.

In short, Trump is a dilettante when it comes to the substance of political policies. By all accounts, Trump has no knowledge of or interest in the details of his own healthcare plan. He seems far more interested in making a deal, any deal, than he does in learning what the policy actually entails and why people should support it.

Trump came into the office of the presidency with no understanding of or appreciation for the historical and legal minutia of the institution or the US government in general. I doubt he knows the difference between the Federalist Papers and Federal Express. If Trump has ANY hope of taking charge of the political agenda in DC, he better start educating himself on the details and substance of complex policies issues. Touting deals purely for their own sake simply isn't going to cut it.

[Peter1469]

It simply was not a conservative bill. And had it become one the moderates would not have supported it.

Let Obamacare cash then tell congress to come to him with a plan.

[decedent]

It failed because constituents -- Republican and Democrat -- told their representatives that they didn't like the bill. It had a 17% approval rating.

You probably don't want to know why they didn't like the bill, but it's safe to say that many could have been benefiting from Obamacare.


It turns out that taking healthcare access away from millions of people isn't going to be so easy after all.

[MisterVeritis]

I read this article (http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/24/the-gops-obamacare-repeal-bill-is-dead-b) at Reason, a libertarian publication, and it explains perfectly why Trump's plan to "repeal and replace" Obamacare failed and should have failed.

In short, Trump is a dilettante when it comes to the substance of political policies. By all accounts, Trump has no knowledge of or interest in the details of his own healthcare plan. He seems far more interested in making a deal, any deal, than he does in learning what the policy actually entails and why people should support it.

Trump came into the office of the presidency with no understanding of or appreciation for the historical and legal minutia of the institution or the US government in general. I doubt he knows the difference between the Federalist Papers and Federal Express. If Trump has ANY hope of taking charge of the political agenda in DC, he better start educating himself on the details and substance of complex policies issues. Touting deals purely for their own sake simply isn't going to cut it.
You read a hit piece. Nothing more.

[Ethereal]

Put another way, Trump has no core political philosophy. He is not anchored by a set of principles that he can rely upon when issues become murky and complex. He's basically flying by the seat of his pants and taking a casual attitude towards governing. If I were Trump's adviser, I would badger him until he agreed to take a couple of weeks at Martha's Vineyard and read The Federalist Papers over and over again until it got into his bones. Unfortunately, Trump is not the kind of person who would ever agree to something like that. As far as he is concerned, he's got everything figured out and doesn't need the wisdom of a Hamilton or a Madison. Something tells me he probably doesn't even know who those guys are or why they would be worth reading.

[Ethereal]

You read a hit piece. Nothing more.
I read an article that describes Trump pretty well. I'm sorry if any criticism of dear leader is upsetting to you.

[Peter1469]

Put another way, Trump has no core political philosophy. He is not anchored by a set of principles that he can rely upon when issues become murky and complex. He's basically flying by the seat of his pants and taking a casual attitude towards governing. If I were Trump's adviser, I would badger him until he agreed to take a couple of weeks at Martha's Vineyard and read The Federalist Papers over and over again until it got into his bones. Unfortunately, Trump is not the kind of person who would ever agree to something like that. As far as he is concerned, he's got everything figured out and doesn't need the wisdom of a Hamilton or a Madison. Something tells me he probably doesn't even know who those guys are or why they would be worth reading.

I forget the name of the book- it was about politics in 18h Century Great Britain. It argued that Parliament didn't effective until everything became a horse trade. If I can recall the name of it, I will link to it here.

[Ethereal]

It failed because constituents -- Republican and Democrat -- told their representatives that they didn't like the bill. It had a 17% approval rating.

You probably don't want to know why they didn't like the bill, but it's safe to say that many could have been benefiting from Obamacare.


It turns out that taking healthcare access away from millions of people isn't going to be so easy after all.

I know why conservatives did not like the bill, because it left much of Obamacare's core failures in place.

The majority of the country has always been opposed to Obamacare, so getting rid of it makes good sense all around.

The problem is that Paul Ryan and the clueless Trump tried to slip Obamacare Lite past conservative Republicans and it did not work.

[patrickt]

I think President Trump is trying but I can understand a lifelong Democrat not understanding that some Americans don't want the government to control their health care.

[MMC]

Why AMAC Supports the House Plan to Repeal and Replace Obamacare


As a first step, the AHCA lays the necessary foundation for more robust and necessary changes to repeal Obamacare in its entirety.During our conversations with Freedom Caucus Republicans, House Leadership, the Department of Health and Human Services, and the Trump Administration, AMAC has chosen to support the AHCA for the following reasons:


Obamacare is unsustainable


Elimination of the individual and employer mandates imposed by the Federal Government


Expanded use of Health Savings Accounts (HSA)


It protects those who had no choice but to get on an Obamacare Exchange


It’s a first step


Conclusion

Seniors have worked to take their country back and to ensure they leave a better, more prosperous future for their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. This first step in repealing and replacing Obamacare isn’t about a single bill—it’s about returning power to the states, shrinking the federal government, and putting health care decisions back into the hands of the patients.


Just as seniors have done in the past, if this process does not lead to the results we want—well, our track-record is pretty strong. We’ll hold our elected leaders accountable at the ballot box.....snip~


http://onenationhealth.org/2017/03/16/why-amac-supports-the-house-plan-to-repeal-and-replace-obamacare/


Say Ta Ta.....goodbye.....C-ya, wouldn't want to be ya. To half the Freedom Caucus. We will dance on your early graves. Best go with cremation.

Oh and lets see any mope try and say AMAC isn't Conservative.

[MisterVeritis]

Put another way, Trump has no core political philosophy. He is not anchored by a set of principles that he can rely upon when issues become murky and complex. He's basically flying by the seat of his pants and taking a casual attitude towards governing. If I were Trump's adviser, I would badger him until he agreed to take a couple of weeks at Martha's Vineyard and read The Federalist Papers over and over again until it got into his bones. Unfortunately, Trump is not the kind of person who would ever agree to something like that. As far as he is concerned, he's got everything figured out and doesn't need the wisdom of a Hamilton or a Madison. Something tells me he probably doesn't even know who those guys are or why they would be worth reading.
I agree with this. I do not see President Trump driven by a deep and abiding love for individual liberty and limited government.

[MisterVeritis]

I read an article that describes Trump pretty well. I'm sorry if any criticism of dear leader is upsetting to you.
I occasionally read hit pieces for the fun of it. I recognize they are hit pieces.

[MisterVeritis]

Why AMAC Supports the House Plan to Repeal and Replace Obamacare
As a first step, the AHCA lays the necessary foundation for more robust and necessary changes to repeal Obamacare in its entirety.During our conversations with Freedom Caucus Republicans, House Leadership, the Department of Health and Human Services, and the Trump Administration, AMAC has chosen to support the AHCA for the following reasons:
Obamacare is unsustainable
Elimination of the individual and employer mandates imposed by the Federal GovernmentExpanded use of Health Savings Accounts (HSA)It protects those who had no choice but to get on an Obamacare ExchangeIt’s a first stepConclusion
Seniors have worked to take their country back and to ensure they leave a better, more prosperous future for their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. This first step in repealing and replacing Obamacare isn’t about a single bill—it’s about returning power to the states, shrinking the federal government, and putting health care decisions back into the hands of the patients.
Just as seniors have done in the past, if this process does not lead to the results we want—well, our track-record is pretty strong. We’ll hold our elected leaders accountable at the ballot box.....snip~
Say Ta Ta.....goodbye.....C-ya, wouldn't want to be ya. To half the Freedom Caucus. We will dance on your early graves. Best go with cremation.
The Conservatives who stood firm just saved the nation. You should be grateful.

[MMC]

The Conservatives who stood firm just saved the nation. You should be grateful.
AMAC is the conservatives.....the ones with the money. The COCH Bros will be made to spend more than they like or want to.


Conservative Groups Endorse AHCA in Open Letter to Congress

This morning, 12 key conservative groups penned an open letter to Congress in support of the American Health Care Act. They wrote:
“On behalf of our organizations, representing millions of Americans from across the country, we write in support of the American Health Care Act (AHCA). As advocates of free market principles and limited government, we endorse this significant legislation that would take the first major step toward repealing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, better known as Obamacare. In its place, it would create a more market-oriented health care system that prioritizes liberty, consumer choice, and innovation over Obamacare’s government mandates.”
The letter was signed by:


National Taxpayers Union
Americans for Tax Reform
Association of Mature American Citizens
Center of the American Experiment
Citizens Against Government Waste
Independent Women’s Voice
Institute for Liberty
Log Cabin Republicans
Market Institute
Obamacare Repeal Coalition
Six Degrees Project
Small Business and Entrepreneurship Counsel......snip~


http://onenationhealth.org/2017/03/15/conservative-groups-endorse-ahca-in-open-letter-to-congress/


Btw.....this would have saved small business. Created jobs. So the Freedom Caucus just screwed job creation too.

They are so so like Burnt toast.

[Peter1469]

I agree with this. I do not see President Trump driven by a deep and abiding love for individual liberty and limited government.

Several of us said this throughout the election process.

[Common]

I agree with ethereal that trump doesnt know the in and outs of Policy making. Neither did Obama when he was elected the difference was everyone helped obama from the media on up.

Just like obamacare Obama was clueless and quoting his own words, the stars were aligned, meaning the democrats had potus an controlled both chambers of congress and thats how we got obamacare.

Trump I believe was led by Paul Ryan like obama was led by Pelosi. Trump should have left obamacare alone or opened the discussion up before committing to more GOP in the house and senate to get a feel for where it was at. I think he just took Paul Ryans word and ran with it

[Common Sense]

Wait, are people just now figuring out that Trump has no idea what he's doing?

[MisterVeritis]

AMAC is the conservatives.....the ones with the money. The COCH Bros will be made to spend more than they like or want to.

You are confused. The Conservatives who refused to buckle are the heroes. Noe of these so-called conservative lobbying groups are heroes. They were not even in the fight.

[MisterVeritis]

Wait, are people just now figuring out that Trump has no idea what he's doing?
He sounded pretty impressive to me just now. On to the next thing. ObamaCare will fail. That is wholly on the Democrats.

[MisterVeritis]

Several of us said this throughout the election process.
True. He was the best of the bunch. He may get better, meaning more aligned with individual liberty, over time.

[del]

Wait, are people just now figuring out that Trump has no idea what he's doing?
so it would appear, but it's okay because it's the democrats' fault and everybody's mean to donnie.

also: freedom

[Peter1469]

Wait, are people just now figuring out that Trump has no idea what he's doing?


I think he was elected because he was not a politician.

[del]

he was elected because paradoxically most of the american right is on the hard left of the bell curve.

[Common Sense]

I think he was elected because he was not a politician.

I think he was elected because there are a lot of dumb and gullible people out there.

[Peter1469]

I think he was elected because there are a lot of dumb and gullible people out there.

I know - a lot of people think that.

[Common Sense]

I know - a lot of people think that.

Probably because it's fairly accurate.

[MisterVeritis]

I think he was elected because there are a lot of dumb and gullible people out there.
Many dumb and gullible people believe as you do.

[Common]

Wait, are people just now figuring out that Trump has no idea what he's doing?
Sigh your crap gets old common sense, are you willing to admit obama was clueless and trudeau is an asshole ?

[Peter1469]

Probably because it's fairly accurate.


I refuse to believe that people are as stupid as you do. But I am not as old and jaded as you are.

[Dr. Who]

I read this article (http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/24/the-gops-obamacare-repeal-bill-is-dead-b) at Reason, a libertarian publication, and it explains perfectly why Trump's plan to "repeal and replace" Obamacare failed and should have failed.

In short, Trump is a dilettante when it comes to the substance of political policies. By all accounts, Trump has no knowledge of or interest in the details of his own healthcare plan. He seems far more interested in making a deal, any deal, than he does in learning what the policy actually entails and why people should support it.

Trump came into the office of the presidency with no understanding of or appreciation for the historical and legal minutia of the institution or the US government in general. I doubt he knows the difference between the Federalist Papers and Federal Express. If Trump has ANY hope of taking charge of the political agenda in DC, he better start educating himself on the details and substance of complex policies issues. Touting deals purely for their own sake simply isn't going to cut it.
He won't. Based on his history he delegates that to the hired help and if they fail, he just fires them. He has no desire to really learn things. He sees himself as the idea guy, the mover and the shaker. Knowledge and facts or history is just pedestrian to him. The fact that he had success in business is because he was often dealing with people like himself. He capitalized on the greed instinct. Politics is rather different. There are a million different agendas, but power is central to most of them. He's in a foreign sandbox.

[Dr. Who]

I agree with ethereal that trump doesnt know the in and outs of Policy making. Neither did Obama when he was elected the difference was everyone helped obama from the media on up.

Just like obamacare Obama was clueless and quoting his own words, the stars were aligned, meaning the democrats had potus an controlled both chambers of congress and thats how we got obamacare.

Trump I believe was led by Paul Ryan like obama was led by Pelosi. Trump should have left obamacare alone or opened the discussion up before committing to more GOP in the house and senate to get a feel for where it was at. I think he just took Paul Ryans word and ran with it
Since Obama was a lawyer first, the learning curve was much more shallow than it is for Trump.

[MMC]

You are confused. The Conservatives who refused to buckle are the heroes. Noe of these so-called conservative lobbying groups are heroes. They were not even in the fight.

No the freedom Caucus aren't the heroes.....they stabbed those 12 Key Conservative groups in the back. The same who supported them and got them elected. Now they will pay the price.

[Common]

Since Obama was a lawyer first, the learning curve was much more shallow than it is for Trump.
He was a lawyer that never practiced law and his claim to fame was Community organizer whatever that is.
If it werent for Axelroad obama would have went down the tube. Axelroad is one sharp guy and I find it very peculiar that after obamas first term axelrod was rarely heard from again.

You cant take trumps vast business success away from him and you cant be stupid and have that much success.

[MisterVeritis]

No the freedom Caucus aren't the heroes.....they stabbed those 12 Key Conservative groups in the back. The same who supported them and got them elected. Now they will pay the price.
Yes. The Freedom Caucus saved your ass today. Be grateful.

[Ethereal]

Wait, are people just now figuring out that Trump has no idea what he's doing?

I'm not. I cannot speak for others.

[Ethereal]

I think he was elected because there are a lot of dumb and gullible people out there.
It's the same reason why Hillary Clinton was almost elected. Unfortunately, you only want to see the dumbness and gullibility on the OTHER side, not your own.

[Dr. Who]

He was a lawyer that never practiced law and his claim to fame was Community organizer whatever that is.
If it werent for Axelroad obama would have went down the tube. Axelroad is one sharp guy and I find it very peculiar that after obamas first term axelrod was rarely heard from again.

You cant take trumps vast business success away from him and you cant be stupid and have that much success.
It's an apples and oranges situation. Lawyers thrive in politics, but it's because it involves and entirely different skill set than big business.

[MisterVeritis]

It's an apples and oranges situation. Lawyers thrive in politics, but it's because it involves and entirely different skill set than big business.
Within which area do your competencies lay?

[Newpublius]

It's an apples and oranges situation. Lawyers thrive in politics, but it's because it involves and entirely different skill set than big business.

They're drawn to it like moths to a flame. Learn law and one instantly wants to pass a law to solve a problem.

Know what the smartest lawyer in the country is?

Not a doctor.

Trust me, I am one, lawyers are a major part of the problem in this country.

[Common]

It's an apples and oranges situation. Lawyers thrive in politics, but it's because it involves and entirely different skill set than big business.
If you actually did law, you can graduate school with any title you want and its worthless until you put it to practice and actually learn it

Ronald Reagan was an actor, obama had no experience and it seems like all other liberals since the day trump got nominated they have been trying to diminish him, insult and degrade him and attack him. Thats the main reason I defend him. Everyone kissed obamas dupa, I doubt I spelled that right :)

[Common]

Yes. The Freedom Caucus saved your ass today. Be grateful.
They saved nothing Mr V they made a laughingstock of the GOP. Go read some legitimate sites, hollywood and obama are gloating that the dumbass gop couldnt even stick together to pass their first main vote.
Personally to me It doesnt matter if it passed or not, I dont think the replacement was much better or would be. But the freedom caucus are nuts they want way to much out of the gate, now they got squat

[Common]

Obamacare stands trump says there wont be another bill. We'll see, obamacare hasnt affected me much at all. Its made changes to medicare that hurts the senior poor that only have Social Security by forcing them to have to buy certain things out of pocket. They increased the increments for allowed ongoing supplies to where they do not last and have to be replaced out of pocket. They have reduced the amount of supplies you get so you have to pay out of pocket and there are things they dont pay for anymore, so im told by other seniors I havent run into that yet.

[Dr. Who]

Within which area do your competencies lay?

Insurance claims which is probably somewhat more aligned with the law than finance, although I have to be aware of both, since an insurance company has to make money.

[Dr. Who]

They're drawn to it like moths to a flame. Learn law and one instantly wants to pass a law to solve a problem.

Know what the smartest lawyer in the country is?

Not a doctor.

Trust me, I am one, lawyers are a major part of the problem in this country.
I agree, on many levels, lol. Lawyers, while necessary can also encourage the concept of victim to the point where they convince juries to bankrupt tort feasors for the most minor oversights. They encourage a victim mentality because it makes them money.

[MisterVeritis]

Yes. The Freedom Caucus saved your ass today. Be grateful.

They saved nothing Mr V they made a laughingstock of the GOP. Go read some legitimate sites, hollywood and obama are gloating that the dumbass gop couldnt even stick together to pass their first main vote.
Personally to me It doesnt matter if it passed or not, I dont think the replacement was much better or would be. But the freedom caucus are nuts they want way to much out of the gate, now they got squat
No. The Freedom Caucus deserves our heartfelt gratitude.

It really does not matter if leftists and leftist supporters believe they won. They didn't. ObamaCare remains ObamaCare and it will fail. One does not replace one form of slavery with another form of slavery and claim victory. One stops the idiocy in its tracks. That is what the courageous Freedom Caucus members did.

The Republicans can repeal ObamaCare in an hour when they are ready to do so. I believe the nation shall have to suffer for the sins of Progressivism a bit longer before we are ready to do so. By stopping the Republicans from stupidly passing ObamaCare-Lite the Freedom Caucus gave the Republicans a second opportunity to do the right thing.

[MisterVeritis]

Insurance claims which is probably somewhat more aligned with the law than finance, although I have to be aware of both, since an insurance company has to make money.
Thanks. Do you have business management experience? I am trying to gauge how well informed your intuition is for business or politics.

[MisterVeritis]

Obamacare stands trump says there wont be another bill. We'll see, obamacare hasnt affected me much at all. Its made changes to medicare that hurts the senior poor that only have Social Security by forcing them to have to buy certain things out of pocket. They increased the increments for allowed ongoing supplies to where they do not last and have to be replaced out of pocket. They have reduced the amount of supplies you get so you have to pay out of pocket and there are things they dont pay for anymore, so im told by other seniors I havent run into that yet.
President Trump has no control over what the Congress does. President Trump can move on to the next thing. And the Congress can continue to work on laws that set the stage for repeal.

Like many people, you seem to believe healthcare is a right and it should be provided to you. We need to fix that or the nation is doomed and we will not recover.

[MisterVeritis]

No the freedom Caucus aren't the heroes.....they stabbed those 12 Key Conservative groups in the back. The same who supported them and got them elected. Now they will pay the price.
A stab in the back implies the Freedom Caucus said they would do one thing and then did the opposite. That did not happen.

They are heros.

[Dr. Who]

Thanks. Do you have business management experience? I am trying to gauge how well informed your intuition is for business or politics.

I am not running the company if that's what you are asking. I do manage people. My employer is near the top of the Fortune 500 companies however. Then again the company that I work for is European, so you probably would not appreciate their focus, which is somewhat different than the American model. However, it has been operating continuously since the 19th century. I'm sorry but providing too many details would make me too easy to identify.

[MisterVeritis]

I am not running the company if that's what you are asking. I do manage people. My employer is near the top of the Fortune 500 companies however. Then again the company that I work for is European, so you probably would not appreciate their focus, which is somewhat different than the American model. However, it has been operating continuously since the 19th century. I'm sorry but providing too many details would make me too easy to identify.
It is okay. You mentioned some of those details before. Do you have any experience or have you had responsibility for profit? My experiences included responsibility for cost, schedule and technical performance for a significant engineering effort on a major program. At my peak, prior to retirement, I had 106 engineers who worked for me.

It is not a big deal. I have another question. Does your affinity for Marxism come from the European flavor of the company you work within? I have relatives who live in Germany. They do not recognize how constrained they are. They pay massive taxes, live in very small homes, drive small cars, and pretty much do what they are told.

[Dr. Who]

It is okay. You mentioned some of those details before. Do you have any experience or have you had responsibility for profit? My experiences included responsibility for cost, schedule and technical performance for a significant engineering effort on a major program. At my peak, prior to retirement, I had 106 engineers who worked for me.

It is not a big deal. I have another question. Does your affinity for Marxism come from the European flavor of the company you work within? I have relatives who live in Germany. They do not recognize how constrained they are. They pay massive taxes, live in very small homes, drive small cars, and pretty much do what they are told.
I am not a marxist. I do lean toward socialism which is moderated by the economic system in place. Since we live in a capitalistic system, the sort of socialism that I envision is not possible. I don't drive a small car. I have a 2016 Ford F150 crew cab with an 8-cylinder engine and an aluminum body. I plan to retire in the next couple of years and I want to buy a trailer and travel some. I don't want a finicky eco-boost engine, I want an engine that has 60 years of history and as few mechanical problems as possible. My father was from Poland, so my affinity for the European way comes naturally. I may buy some property somewhere with a dry climate because my husband has arthritic issues, possibly in Mexico where we can weather out the dampest times of the year. In terms of work, in the insurance industry claims departments work within budgets. It's not like an engineering company. It's a different model. Although claims are the product of any insurance company, they tend to be considered a back room operation and one that just costs the company. It's ridiculous, considering all the effort that goes into saving money by examining coverage and vetting quantum among many other things, but claims departments don't earn money, so they are not all that sexy in the insurance industry.

[MisterVeritis]

They saved nothing Mr V they made a laughingstock of the GOP. Go read some legitimate sites, hollywood and obama are gloating that the dumbass gop couldnt even stick together to pass their first main vote.
Personally to me It doesnt matter if it passed or not, I dont think the replacement was much better or would be. But the freedom caucus are nuts they want way to much out of the gate, now they got squat
I have another view. During the War in the Pacific, during WWII the US fought a number of naval actions where we lost more aircraft and pilots than the Japanese did. Each was a tactical loss. In hindsight a small collection of losses guaranteed our win as the Japanese were unable to replace their pilots.

The nature of a loss or win is not always obvious when the events are fresh. A loss of this magnitude will result in Mr. Trump's education. I believe it will also lead to Speaker Ryan's education.

So let's see what things look like in 60 days.

[MisterVeritis]

I am not a marxist. I do lean toward socialism which is moderated by the economic system in place. Since we live in a capitalistic system, the sort of socialism that I envision is not possible. I don't drive a small car. I have a 2016 Ford F150 crew cab with an 8-cylinder engine and an aluminum body. I plan to retire in the next couple of years and I want to buy a trailer and travel some. I don't want a finicky eco-boost engine, I want an engine that has 60 years of history and as few mechanical problems as possible. My father was from Poland, so my affinity for the European way comes naturally. I may buy some property somewhere with a dry climate because my husband has arthritic issues, possibly in Mexico where we can weather out the dampest times of the year. In terms of work, in the insurance industry claims departments work within budgets. It's not like an engineering company. It's a different model. Although claims are the product of any insurance company, they tend to be considered a back room operation and one that just costs the company. It's ridiculous, considering all the effort that goes into saving money by examining coverage and vetting quantum among many other things, but claims departments don't earn money, so they are not all that sexy in the insurance industry.
Thank you, Dr. Who. I never believed you believed you are a Marxist. Even Karl Marx objected to being called a Marxist. I know it does not matter to you but it is clear to me you embrace much of what Marxists believe. Socialism is a softer term.

[Green Arrow]

AMAC is the conservatives.....the ones with the money. The COCH Bros will be made to spend more than they like or want to.


Conservative Groups Endorse AHCA in Open Letter to Congress

This morning, 12 key conservative groups penned an open letter to Congress in support of the American Health Care Act. They wrote:
“On behalf of our organizations, representing millions of Americans from across the country, we write in support of the American Health Care Act (AHCA). As advocates of free market principles and limited government, we endorse this significant legislation that would take the first major step toward repealing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, better known as Obamacare. In its place, it would create a more market-oriented health care system that prioritizes liberty, consumer choice, and innovation over Obamacare’s government mandates.”
The letter was signed by:

National Taxpayers Union
Americans for Tax Reform
Association of Mature American Citizens
Center of the American Experiment
Citizens Against Government Waste
Independent Women’s Voice
Institute for Liberty
Log Cabin Republicans
Market Institute
Obamacare Repeal Coalition
Six Degrees Project
Small Business and Entrepreneurship Counsel......snip~

http://onenationhealth.org/2017/03/15/conservative-groups-endorse-ahca-in-open-letter-to-congress/


Btw.....this would have saved small business. Created jobs. So the Freedom Caucus just screwed job creation too.

They are so so like Burnt toast.

Do you have any firm beliefs or convictions? Or do you believe whatever articles you read that make Trump look good?

[KathyS]

I think he was elected because there are a lot of dumb and gullible people out there.
I disagree. Republicans promised that if given the House,Senate, and Presidency, they would repeal and replace Obamacare.
Problem is, the republicans never had any intent to follow through because they believed a non-politician would never ascend to the presidency.
Well duh, now what are they going to do?? They never had a healthcare plan in place. Instead, just like Gruber stated, they banked on the ignorance of the American voters.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gruber+obamacare+lies&&view=detail&mid=F14643DD4333818BE029F14643DD4333818BE029&FORM=VRDGAR

This fiasco wasn't Trump's fault, in fact, he had everyone from Paul Ryan, Ted Cruz, and Elijah Cummings visit the WH to listen to their views in order to create the best bill possible.

[del]

wasn't trump's fault

we should get used to the idea of four years of hearing that

[Tahuyaman]

Why The Healthcare Bill Should And Did Fail
When they propose a bill which works on condervative principles, it will pass overwhelmingly.

[Ethereal]

Do you have any firm beliefs or convictions? Or do you believe whatever articles you read that make Trump look good?
I assume that's a rhetorical question.

[resister]

I assume that's a rhetorical question.They rushed into this way to fast, lets see what the future holds!

[Peter1469]

It's an apples and oranges situation. Lawyers thrive in politics, but it's because it involves and entirely different skill set than big business.

Which is why the GOP was shocked when Trump said the vote would be on Friday and that is it. He is moving on regardless of the outcome.

A shock to politicians.

[MMC]

Do you have any firm beliefs or convictions? Or do you believe whatever articles you read that make Trump look good?
Do you even understand politics within a party? Oh wait.....no you don't, you claim your an independent. Which really, your nothing more than a leftist apologist and enabler. Let me know when you figure out those 12 Key Conservative groups talking with the Repubs first. Specifically with the Freedom Caucus whom they got elected.

You did read that they sent an Open letter to Congress, correct. Which had nothing to do with Trump.


Next time think before you open up that pie hole.

[Green Arrow]

Do you even understand politics within a party? Oh wait.....no you don't, you claim your an independent. Which really, your nothing more than a leftist apologist and enabler. Let me know when you figure out those 12 Key Conservative groups talking with the Repubs first. Specifically with the Freedom Caucus whom they got elected.

You did read that they sent an Open letter to Congress, correct. Which had nothing to do with Trump.


Next time think before you open up that pie hole.

Why are conservatives supporting Obamacare Lite?

[MMC]

Why are conservatives supporting Obamacare Lite?

Obamacare lite is nothing more than an excuse. A lame one at that. As that would imply this bill is the final product. Which it never was. Moreover AMAC already stated why Conservatives were supporting the bill. So why would you ask a question that was already answered?


It’s about returning power to the states, shrinking the federal government, and putting health care decisions back into the hands of the patients. It start the process of repealing and replacing BO the peeps special package. A Promise made for 7 years.


Now tossed into the shitter.

[Green Arrow]

Obamacare lite is nothing more than an excuse. A lame one at that. As that would imply this bill is the final product. Which it never was. Moreover AMAC already stated why Conservatives were supporting the bill. So why would you ask a question that was already answered?


It’s about returning power to the states, shrinking the federal government, and putting health care decisions back into the hands of the patients. It start the process of repealing and replacing BO the peeps special package. A Promise made for 7 years.


Now tossed into the shitter.

LOL, no, it doesn't. It still allows the federal government to force you to buy insurance and penalizes you by increased taxation if you drop your insurance. It still allows the federal government to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. It still has "death panels" where your insurance premiums artificially increase the older you get just so they effectively force you to lose insurance, at which point they tax the shit out of you until you die.

AMAC does not speak for all conservatives. This bill was shit and I don't care if it wasn't the final product. Get it right the first time. No more of this "we'll fix it after we pass it" nonsense.

[MMC]

They rushed into this way to fast, lets see what the future holds!

They didn't rush to fast. What is in this bill they have been dealing with for the last 7 years. Moreover.....the Freedom Caucus had no trouble signing on when they Knew Reid would make sure that the Peep never even got the bill.

This bill went before all and even after it was tweeked.....to give the Freedom Caucus some of what they wanted. They bail and obstruct. Their excuses are nothing more than some lame ass excuses.


They were played to.....given some of what they wanted. They wanted a perfect bill. There is no such thing as a perfect bill.


It was explained to them this was the beginning of the process. They couldn't handle that.

[MMC]

LOL, no, it doesn't. It still allows the federal government to force you to buy insurance and penalizes you by increased taxation if you drop your insurance. It still allows the federal government to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. It still has "death panels" where your insurance premiums artificially increase the older you get just so they effectively force you to lose insurance, at which point they tax the shit out of you until you die.

AMAC does not speak for all conservatives. This bill was shit and I don't care if it wasn't the final product. Get it right the first time. No more of this "we'll fix it after we pass it" nonsense.

LMAO no it didn't.....and the penalty would have come from the insurer. Moreover it would have removed the mandate from small business. It removes the individual mandate and employer mandate.

The Federal Government would not be telling people what they should or should not buy. What part of that don't you comprehend.


Moreover AMAC wanted more HSA expansion. They didn't think the bill went far enough. But they were able to figure out that it was a Starting Process. The first step.


Oh and those 11 other Key conservative groups all agreed with AMAC. So while it does not speak for ALL Conservatives It does speak for the Vast Majority. Which means that small group that is left.....is just that, a small group who don't represent the vast majority of conservatives. The fringe Right.


But then again....you may need the Federal Government to tell you what you can and cannot do. Oh, so there is no need for you to fake like youre a conservative. Your not.

[Peter1469]

Insurers would be able to charge people extra if they had ended a policy recently. That effectively is a mandate.


LMAO no it didn't.....and the penalty would have come from the insurer. Moreover it would have removed the mandate from small business. It removes the individual mandate and employer mandate.

The Federal Government would not be telling people what they should or should not buy. What part of that don't you comprehend.


Moreover AMAC wanted more HSA expansion. They didn't think the bill went far enough. But they were able to figure out that it was a Starting Process. The first step.


Oh and those 11 other Key conservative groups all agreed with AMAC. So while it does not speak for ALL Conservatives It does speak for the Vast Majority. Which means that small group that is left.....is just that, a small group who don't represent the vast majority of conservatives. The fringe Right.


But then again....you may need the Federal Government to tell you what you can and cannot do. Oh, so there is no need for you to fake like youre a conservative. Your not.

[MMC]

Insurers would be able to charge people extra if they had ended a policy recently. That effectively is a mandate.

But not one from the Government. Hewitt is telling it like is.....The Freedom Caucus will go down in infamy with the Repubs. He thought they would pass it once they got some of what they wanted.

BO care is failing. Passing this would have been better for the country than letting BO care fail. Note what he says on MSDNC.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuU_-3zwy3A

[Green Arrow]

LMAO no it didn't.....and the penalty would have come from the insurer. Moreover it would have removed the mandate from small business. It removes the individual mandate and employer mandate.

The Federal Government would not be telling people what they should or should not buy. What part of that don't you comprehend.


Moreover AMAC wanted more HSA expansion. They didn't think the bill went far enough. But they were able to figure out that it was a Starting Process. The first step.


Oh and those 11 other Key conservative groups all agreed with AMAC. So while it does not speak for ALL Conservatives It does speak for the Vast Majority. Which means that small group that is left.....is just that, a small group who don't represent the vast majority of conservatives. The fringe Right.


But then again....you may need the Federal Government to tell you what you can and cannot do. Oh, so there is no need for you to fake like youre a conservative. Your not.

I never claimed I was a conservative. I merely pointed out the biggest gripes conservatives had with Obamacare.

[MMC]

I never claimed I was a conservative. I merely pointed out the biggest gripes conservatives had with Obamacare.

Other than the fact of government telling people what they can and cannot buy. And how you think a Perfect bill can come out of House the first time. Which that's not even how the process works.


Let me know when you figure out that the House still has to send their bill to the Senate.

[The Xl]

It was Obamacare light. It was opposed by both liberals who want to keep Obamacare and conservatives alike. That's why it failed.

[MMC]

It was Obamacare light. It was opposed by both liberals who want to keep Obamacare and conservatives alike. That's why it failed.

It was opposed by 36 Far Right Conservatives. Let me know when you figure out How BO care didn't tell you what you can or cannot buy. Then when BO peep care allowed insurance to be bought over state lines. Or allowed for Health savings accounts.

It was no where close to being BO care light. That was a lame excuse for not repealing and replacing it one shot.

[MisterVeritis]

Obamacare lite is nothing more than an excuse. A lame one at that. As that would imply this bill is the final product. Which it never was. Moreover AMAC already stated why Conservatives were supporting the bill. So why would you ask a question that was already answered?

It’s about returning power to the states, shrinking the federal government, and putting health care decisions back into the hands of the patients. It start the process of repealing and replacing BO the peeps special package. A Promise made for 7 years.

Now tossed into the shitter.
Relax. This appalling bill will not become law. It was based on lies and deception.

Now the House can begin to work on good bills, one at a time that will set the stage for real repeal instead of Repeal In Name Only.

There is no need for anger. The right feeling is gratitude. My Congressman voted no would have been a "no" vote. I have already publicly thanked him for his principled stand against a slightly less tyrannical version of ObamaCare. If your representative voted forsupported it, you need to demand he explain what the hell is wrong with him or her.

[MisterVeritis]

They didn't rush to fast. What is in this bill they have been dealing with for the last 7 years. Moreover.....the Freedom Caucus had no trouble signing on when they Knew Reid would make sure that the Peep never even got the bill.
This bill went before all and even after it was tweeked.....to give the Freedom Caucus some of what they wanted. They bail and obstruct. Their excuses are nothing more than some lame ass excuses.
They were played to.....given some of what they wanted. They wanted a perfect bill. There is no such thing as a perfect bill.
It was explained to them this was the beginning of the process. They couldn't handle that.
You live in error.

[MisterVeritis]

Other than the fact of government telling people what they can and cannot buy. And how you think a Perfect bill can come out of House the first time. Which that's not even how the process works.
Let me know when you figure out that the House still has to send their bill to the Senate.
In my opinion, the perfect repeal of ObamaCare is a one or two paragraph one page bill. It should say "This law repeals every facet of ACA. It repeals every tax, every regulation, every statute, and every court interpretation relating to ACA. It eliminates all federal rules impairing free market activities.

The House promises to follow the Constitution and shall no longer interfere with the Healthcare industry including insurance."


Do you see how easy it can be to step away from socialism and toward individual liberty?

[Tahuyaman]

It was opposed by 36 Far Right Conservatives. Let me know when you figure out How BO care didn't tell you what you can or cannot buy. Then when BO peep care allowed insurance to be bought over state lines. Or allowed for Health savings accounts.

It was no where close to being BO care light. That was a lame excuse for not repealing and replacing it one shot.


No, it was opposed by mainstream, rational thinking conservatives. There are still a few left out there.

And they opposed it because it was nothing but a token rearranging of the current failure.

[MMC]

No, it was opposed by mainstream, rational thinking conservatives. There are still a few left out there.

And they opposed it because it was nothing but a token rearranging of the current failure.

No.....the mainstream rational Conservatives voted in favor. As they knew this was just the first step. Plus they knew you cant ever get a perfect bill. They understood the Budget reconciliation process.

Its the Freedom Caucus that never learned how the Senate works, nor how the Demos play.

[MMC]

In my opinion, the perfect repeal of ObamaCare is a one or two paragraph one page bill. It should say "This law repeals every facet of ACA. It repeals every tax, every regulation, every statute, and every court interpretation relating to ACA. It eliminates all federal rules impairing free market activities.

The House promises to follow the Constitution and shall no longer interfere with the Healthcare industry including insurance."


Do you see how easy it can be to step away from socialism and toward individual liberty?

It would not pass the Senate and they can't do all of that in a Budget Reconciliation Process. Which this is what this Bill was going thru.

[Tahuyaman]

No.....the mainstream rational Conservatives voted in favor. As they knew this was just the first step. Plus they knew you cant ever get a perfect bill. They understood the Budget reconciliation process.

Its the Freedom Caucus that never learned how the Senate works, nor how the Demos play.


Nope. Mainstream conservatives rejected the party line. We need more just like them.

[MisterVeritis]

It would not pass the Senate and they can't do all of that in a Budget Reconciliation Process. Which this is what this Bill was going thru.
I see. You know in advance what will or will not pass? Amazing.

You bought the lie and the deception. You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

[Bo-4]

I see. You know in advance what will or will not pass? Amazing.

You bought the lie and the deception. You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

Not considered polite to slap one of your own teammates. ;)

[MMC]

Nope. Mainstream conservatives rejected the party line. We need more just like them.

We will see if half of the Freedom Caucus makes it back to Congress. Then you will have your answer.

[MMC]

I see. You know in advance what will or will not pass? Amazing.

You bought the lie and the deception. You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

52 Senators.....what confuses you that they would need 60? Just how do you think the Demos would support what you offered?

Really......none will take up the offer. Since they know what comes with the return.

[Green Arrow]

Other than the fact of government telling people what they can and cannot buy. And how you think a Perfect bill can come out of House the first time. Which that's not even how the process works.


Let me know when you figure out that the House still has to send their bill to the Senate.

The first rule of negotiation: Always ask for more than what you want. That way as you come closer to a deal, you get more of what you want.

[MisterVeritis]

You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

Not considered polite to slap one of your own teammates. ;)
The slap always come just before, "Thanks! I needed that."

[MisterVeritis]

We will see if half of the Freedom Caucus makes it back to Congress. Then you will have your answer.
My representative will. Of course, we are in one of the regions occupied by very smart people.

[MMC]

The first rule of negotiation: Always ask for more than what you want. That way as you come closer to a deal, you get more of what you want.
It didn't work for the FC, they asked for more, got more. Then bailed.

[MMC]

You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

The slap always come just before, "Thanks! I needed that."

Which is why that never happens.

[MisterVeritis]

I see. You know in advance what will or will not pass? Amazing.

You bought the lie and the deception. You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

52 Senators.....what confuses you that they would need 60? Just how do you think the Demos would support what you offered?

Really......none will take up the offer. Since they know what comes with the return.
You bought the lie. Write a good bill and work hard to pass it.

What Ryan and the House leadership was the opposite. They wrote an awful bill. That is why it rightfully failed.

Grow the fuck up.

Representatives, if you are not willing to fight for what is right you have no business representing us in Congress.

[MisterVeritis]

It didn't work for the FC, they asked for more, got more. Then bailed.
They got a promise. Not a law. A promise. That requires trust and no one can trust a politician.

[MMC]

My representative will. Of course, we are in one of the regions occupied by very smart people.
Better check with him as to if he has paid his dues.



NRCC chairman warns of voter 'blowback' if GOP fails to repeal Obamacare.....



Rep. Steve Stivers, R-Ohio, believes Republican incumbents in Congress will face serious repercussions from voters in 2018 over the GOP's unfulfilled promise to repeal Obamacare, which was dealt another blow on Friday after the American Health Care Act got pulled from the House floor due to a lack of support from Republicans.
Stivers, who chairs the National Republican Congressional Committee, told the Washington Examiner in an interview prior to the failed vote that if Republicans are unable to repeal and replace Obamacare, they should expect a deflated base of supporters and repercussions at the polls in 2018.



At a meeting Tuesday with the House GOP conference, Trump singled out Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., chairman of the Freedom Caucus, and told him that he would target him politically if he didn't jump on board and support the proposal.


"I'm going to come after you," Trump reportedly (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/21/us/politics/house-republicans-health-care-donald-trump.html?_r=0) told Meadows.



But Stivers said that wouldn't be the case for some Freedom Caucus members as many of them have not paid dues.


"Some of those guys, I'd love to have them pay their dues just once," Stivers said before letting loose a hearty laugh. "And if they're paying their dues, they're on my team — our team. This is a dues-paying organization. You opt in by paying your dues. If they're not, maybe they're on somebody else's — I don't know whose team they're on.".....snip~


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nrcc-chairman-warns-of-voter-blowback-if-gop-fails-to-repeal-obamacare/article/2618429

[MMC]

I see. You know in advance what will or will not pass? Amazing.

You bought the lie and the deception. You need to find someone to slap you. Hard.

You bought the lie. Write a good bill and work hard to pass it.

What Ryan and the House leadership was the opposite. They wrote an awful bill. That is why it rightfully failed.

Grow the fuck up.

Representatives, if you are not willing to fight for what is right you have no business representing us in Congress.

Face reality.....post 91. That's what will take place with the FC. That an those 12 Key Conservative groups. Not helping them with the money and making sure they face a Primary opponent.

[MisterVeritis]

Better check with him as to if he has paid his dues.
NRCC chairman warns of voter 'blowback' if GOP fails to repeal Obamacare.....

Rep. Steve Stivers, R-Ohio, believes Republican incumbents in Congress will face serious repercussions from voters in 2018 over the GOP's unfulfilled promise to repeal Obamacare, which was dealt another blow on Friday after the American Health Care Act got pulled from the House floor due to a lack of support from Republicans.
Stivers, who chairs the National Republican Congressional Committee, told the Washington Examiner in an interview prior to the failed vote that if Republicans are unable to repeal and replace Obamacare, they should expect a deflated base of supporters and repercussions at the polls in 2018.



At a meeting Tuesday with the House GOP conference, Trump singled out Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., chairman of the Freedom Caucus, and told him that he would target him politically if he didn't jump on board and support the proposal.


"I'm going to come after you," Trump reportedly (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/21/us/politics/house-republicans-health-care-donald-trump.html?_r=0) told Meadows.



But Stivers said that wouldn't be the case for some Freedom Caucus members as many of them have not paid dues.


"Some of those guys, I'd love to have them pay their dues just once," Stivers said before letting loose a hearty laugh. "And if they're paying their dues, they're on my team — our team. This is a dues-paying organization. You opt in by paying your dues. If they're not, maybe they're on somebody else's — I don't know whose team they're on.".....snip~


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nrcc-chairman-warns-of-voter-blowback-if-gop-fails-to-repeal-obamacare/article/2618429
Beat your chest, if you like. We have so few lions in the House. We have plenty of sheep. You need to ask your sheep why he or she let you down by supporting Ryan's awful bill.

[Green Arrow]

No.....the mainstream rational Conservatives voted in favor. As they knew this was just the first step. Plus they knew you cant ever get a perfect bill. They understood the Budget reconciliation process.

Its the Freedom Caucus that never learned how the Senate works, nor how the Demos play.


Relax. This appalling bill will not become law. It was based on lies and deception.

Now the House can begin to work on good bills, one at a time that will set the stage for real repeal instead of Repeal In Name Only.

There is no need for anger. The right feeling is gratitude. My Congressman voted no. I have already publicly thanked him for his principled stand against a slightly less tyrannical version of ObamaCare. If your representative voted for it, you need to demand he explain what the hell is wrong with him or her.

Nobody voted yes or no, the vote was cancelled.

[Green Arrow]

It didn't work for the FC, they asked for more, got more. Then bailed.
Alright, you and I are both senators. I present you with a bill to fix Obamacare. You say, no, I want a bill to fully repeal Obamacare. I give you a bill that fully repeals Obamacare, but includes a provision mandating that you murder every conservative you know.

Do you vote for it, considering it gives you what you want?

[MMC]

Nobody voted yes or no, the vote was cancelled.

No vote was on the House floor. But let us know when you figure out the conference vote and how Ryan knew he didn't have the votes.

[MMC]

Alright, you and I are both senators. I present you with a bill to fix Obamacare. You say, no, I want a bill to fully repeal Obamacare. I give you a bill that fully repeals Obamacare, but includes a provision mandating that you murder every conservative you know.

Do you vote for it, considering it gives you what you want?

:rollseyes:

[Green Arrow]

No vote was on the House floor. But let us know when you figure out the conference vote and how Ryan knew he didn't have the votes.

No need, I've always known. Rep. Steve Scalise, as House Majority Whip, tracks where everyone stands on the prospective measure. Then he and his allies talk to and try to butter up leaning and opposed members until they get to yes or are determined a lost cause.

[Green Arrow]

:rollseyes:

So, you can't answer?

[MisterVeritis]

Nobody voted yes or no, the vote was cancelled.
Pedant. There is a reason why I dislike you. This isn't it but it adds to it.

[Green Arrow]

Pedant.
It's really not, you said a vote was cast when no vote was cast. That's incorrect. It's like if I said water is not wet. You wouldn't be a pedant to suggest I was mistaken.

[MisterVeritis]

Face reality.....post 91. That's what will take place with the FC. That an those 12 Key Conservative groups. Not helping them with the money and making sure they face a Primary opponent.
Beat your chest. My representative will be fine. It is a shame we have so few principled representatives. Is your representative one of the sheep who would have voted for ObamaCare-Lite? He or she needs to be replaced by a lion who will not support Lyan Ryan.

[MisterVeritis]

It's really not, you said a vote was cast when no vote was cast. That's incorrect. It's like if I said water is not wet. You wouldn't be a pedant to suggest I was mistaken.
Thank you for your great concern.

[Green Arrow]

Thank you for your great concern.

You're welcome. Happy to help.

[MMC]

No need, I've always known. Rep. Steve Scalise, as House Majority Whip, tracks where everyone stands on the prospective measure. Then he and his allies talk to and try to butter up leaning and opposed members until they get to yes or are determined a lost cause.


Then you knew he takes a vote. Keeps the tally. For and against. Thanks for validating there is a vote.

[MMC]

So, you can't answer?

Stick with reality.....despite the trouble you have with it.

[MMC]

Beat your chest. My representative will be fine. It is a shame we have so few principled representatives. Is your representative one of the sheep who would have voted for ObamaCare-Lite? He or she needs to be replaced by a lion who will not support Lyan Ryan.


How so.....you just got done saying its fine to piecemeal BO care in the Rand Paul thread. But it wasn't fine to do so with this bill.

A lion is no match for a Tiger. Remember that.

[Green Arrow]

Stick with reality.....despite the trouble you have with it.

Reality so far appears to be that you can't answer a simple question. Why is that?

[Green Arrow]

Then you knew he takes a vote. Keeps the tally. For and against. Thanks for validating there is a vote.

It's not an official vote. There's a difference between a vote and a tally.

[MMC]

It's not an official vote. There's a difference between a vote and a tally.
Do you deny its a vote despite not being Official?

[MMC]

It's not an official vote. There's a difference between a vote and a tally.

If you were a Senator you wouldn't be negotiating a deal to kill people to give somebody what they want. Moreover, that didn't change up the negotiating that took place with the FC and them getting more of what they wanted.

[Green Arrow]

Do you deny its a vote despite not being Official?

Yes, I do. It's not a vote, it's a judgment call and a "best guess" on who will vote which way when the actual vote takes place.

[MisterVeritis]

How so.....you just got done saying its fine to piecemeal BO care in the Rand Paul thread. But it wasn't fine to do so with this bill.
A lion is no match for a Tiger. Remember that.
Each law will stand on its own. That is far different than the lie the Republican leadership pedaled. No thanks. No more "trust us, eventually, we will get to the things that matter."

Do you understand the difference between a bill and a promise of a bill in later phases?

[Green Arrow]

If you were a Senator you wouldn't be negotiating a deal to kill people to give somebody what they want. Moreover, that didn't change up the negotiating that took place with the FC and them getting more of what they wanted.
Then I was correct, you can't answer the question.

[MMC]

Then I was correct, you can't answer the question.

Because your question is a delusion. Some made up warp shit from your mind. Nothing close to reality.

[MisterVeritis]

I think I have had enough of this thread. Carry on.

[MMC]

Each law will stand on its own. That is far different than the lie the Republican leadership pedaled. No thanks. No more "trust us, eventually, we will get to the things that matter."

Do you understand the difference between a bill and a promise of a bill in later phases?

It wasnt just a promise.....look up what Ryan and all Tweeked, including the FC. The Bill was going to the Senate. Where changes would be made or added. Then it would be sent back to the House. Both Senate and House would then confer and pass what was agreed on. Which the Demos couldn't have done shit about it.

[Green Arrow]

Because your question is a delusion. Some made up warp shit from your mind. Nothing close to reality.

I'm sure.

[MMC]

I'm sure.

Tell us again, how 2 Senators would be negotiating with an agreement to kill people so that one could get what he wanted out of a bill. :rollseyes:

[Green Arrow]

Tell us again, how 2 Senators would be negotiating with an agreement to kill people so that one could get what he wanted out of a bill. :rollseyes:
It's called an example.

[MMC]

It's called an example.

Or more like an unreal hypothetical.

[Green Arrow]

Or more like an unreal hypothetical.

Hypothetical works too.

[MMC]

Hypothetical works too.

Not in this case.

[Green Arrow]

Not in this case.

If that is what helps you deflect from the question, be my guest.

[MMC]

If that is what helps you deflect from the question, be my guest.

Yeah and when you get back to reality. Let me know.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

What we need is Single Payer. Insurance companies are pointless middlemen who only serve as gatekeepers to care. Their profit model is an obstacle to effective care. 20-30% of what we spend on healthcare goes to administrative overhead of insurance companies. Compare that to a 2-3% overhead for Single Payer, and a great deal of the system pays for itself. I could go on, but I figure I'll save some for the indignant rebuttals.

[Peter1469]

What we need is Single Payer. Insurance companies are pointless middlemen who only serve as gatekeepers to care. Their profit model is an obstacle to effective care. 20-30% of what we spend on healthcare goes to administrative overhead of insurance companies. Compare that to a 2-3% overhead for Single Payer, and a great deal of the system pays for itself. I could go on, but I figure I'll save some for the indignant rebuttals.
We need more free market to drive quality care and lower cost.

As a society we can't leave those who can't access markets go untreated. Stan Brock has an excellent program and has adapted it to America.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

We need more free market to drive quality care and lower cost.

As a society we can't leave those who can't access markets go untreated. Stan Brock has an excellent program and has adapted it to America.
The market isn't some force of nature, it's operated and maintained by people.

I agree with you though, we can't let people go untreated. That is why we need Single Payer. By freeing doctors from the yoke of insurance companies, it opens them up to provide better care.

[Ethereal]

What we need is Single Payer. Insurance companies are pointless middlemen who only serve as gatekeepers to care. Their profit model is an obstacle to effective care. 20-30% of what we spend on healthcare goes to administrative overhead of insurance companies. Compare that to a 2-3% overhead for Single Payer, and a great deal of the system pays for itself. I could go on, but I figure I'll save some for the indignant rebuttals.
You would have a point if health insurance wasn't subject to onerous taxes and regulations which add substantially to those administrative costs.

[Ethereal]

The market isn't some force of nature, it's operated and maintained by people.

Markets are demonstrably superior to government planning when allowed to operate properly.