Trump, China, and North Korea

[Peter1469]

Trump, China, and North Korea (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear-idUSKBN1740SH?il=0)
While the fake news has people's attention war is close at hand.


"China has great influence over North Korea. And China will either decide to help us with North Korea, or they won’t. And if they do that will be very good for China, and if they don’t it won’t be good for anyone," Trump was quoted as saying, according to an edited transcript published by the newspaper.Asked what incentive the United States had to offer China, Trump replied: "Trade is the incentive. It is all about trade."


Asked if he would consider a "grand bargain" in which China pressured Pyongyang in return for a guarantee the United States would later remove troops from the Korean peninsula, the newspaper quoted Trump as saying: "Well if China is not going to solve North Korea, we will. That is all I am telling you."

I maintain that China would prefer to bring North Korea to heel on its own rather than risk the US and South Korea on its border.

But don't let reality get in the way of searches for the showers of gold.


Trump's national security aides have completed a review of U.S. options to try to curb North Korea's nuclear and missile programs that includes economic and military measures but leans more toward sanctions and increased pressure on Beijing to rein in its reclusive neighbor, a U.S. official said.

Although the option of pre-emptive military strikes on North Korea is not off the table, the review prioritizes less-risky steps and "de-emphasizes direct military action," the official added, saying it was not immediately known if the National Security Council recommendations had made their way to Trump.


The White House declined comment on the recommendations.

[Casper]

Trump, China, and North Korea (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear-idUSKBN1740SH?il=0)
While the fake news has people's attention war is close at hand.



I maintain that China would prefer to bring North Korea to heel on its own rather than risk the US and South Korea on its border.

But don't let reality get in the way of searches for the showers of gold.

So, if China does not deal with North Korea we should start trade war with China? Good grief.............

[Peter1469]

So, if China does not deal with North Korea we should start trade war with China? Good grief.............

Or we attack North Korea before they prefect an ICBM.

That is not acceptable.

[Casper]

Or we attack North Korea before they prefect an ICBM.

That is not acceptable.
Nuking other Nations so they do not get the same sorts of weapons is unacceptable, unfortunately many do not see the irony in that thinking.

[Peter1469]

Nuking other Nations so they do not get the same sorts of weapons is unacceptable, unfortunately many do not see the irony in that thinking.

Why nuke them? Although it would be easier.

Here is an article that I posted in two other threads about North Korea.

The US is considering a direct strike against North Korea — here’s how it would go down (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-us-would-strike-north-korea-2017-3/#first-a-decision-would-need-to-be-made-1)

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - Fatboy got no common sense...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Foreign investors leave North Korea, citing corruption, 'lack of common sense'
July 3, 2017 -- Foreign investors who were once lured by promises of high returns in a North Korean city are leaving after suffering heavy losses, according to a South Korean press report.


Daily NK reported Monday that Chinese and Russian investors are withdrawing their financial support for projects in Rason, the northeastern North Korean city designated a special economic zone under Kim Jong Il, the father of current leader Kim Jong Un. Outside investors were discouraged by relentless corruption, according to North Korean sources in North Hamgyong province who spoke to Daily NK on the condition of anonymity. State authorities often made demands outside business contracts, or concocted excuses to not return investment profits to foreign interests, sources said.


http://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/i/1171499101985/2017/1/14991020626027/Foreign-investors-leave-North-Korea-citing-corruption-lack-of-common-sense.jpg
North Korean authorities in Rason, North Hamgyong province, are extorting money and gasoline from foreign investors, sources in the country say.

Some Russian and Chinese enterprises are leaving Rason because they realized they "could not solve the problem using common sense" with the North Koreans, according to one source in the province bordering China and Russia. The investors, who were unable to recoup their losses, decided to "get out of the city before suffering more damage," the source said. Russian companies that had begun construction on new buildings suspended their projects, leaving behind "skeletal structures" that stand unfinished in a city once touted for its economic potential as a trading hub. Individual Chinese investors are among those who have "not received a penny in return for their investment" and are quitting the city.

Others cannot leave Rason, but the source did not specify whether they are unable to leave because of North Korea regulations, or because they cannot afford to exit their North Korea investments. There is also evidence of skyrocketing gasoline prices, according to the report. Corruption among state officers has enabled them to make other demands that extend beyond bribes and include requirements for gasoline from the foreign business community. The price of gasoline is $5.56 per gallon, up from $3.33 per gallon in recent weeks, according to the report.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/07/03/Foreign-investors-leave-North-Korea-citing-corruption-lack-of-common-sense/1171499101985/?utm_source=sec&utm_campaign=sl&utm_medium=17

[gamewell45]

Why nuke them? Although it would be easier.

Here is an article that I posted in two other threads about North Korea.

The US is considering a direct strike against North Korea — here’s how it would go down (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-us-would-strike-north-korea-2017-3/#first-a-decision-would-need-to-be-made-1)


On paper it looks good.....if things go according to plan, but for example, if even one submarine gets through and launches nuclear missiles towards the US and they are not all shot down by our classified weapons systems, the results could be disastrous not only for the US, but for the world at large. Which is why it is much better to find a diplomatic solution if at all possible.

Fatboy is a psycho and there is no telling what he'd do if attacked and feels he's going to lose since his little world would be collapsing in front of his very eyes. Ideally, it would be desirable to send in a team and have them take him out sniper style; I'm wondering if that would be more feasible then taking a chance with fatboy getting his boyhood dream and launching his precious nukes towards us or NK/Japan? After all it would be better that way as opposed to massive casualties of US Soldiers/SK Soldier/Civies in South Korea.

[Peter1469]

US President calls emergency meeting to formulate 'measured response' to North Korea's record-breaking missile test amid fears one could hit Alaska (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665438/Trump-calls-emergency-meeting-North-Korea-missile.html)

North Korea fired off an ICBM.


President Donald Trump (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/donald_trump/index.html)called an emergency meeting on the Fourth of July to formulate a 'measured response' to North Korea (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/north_korea/index.html)'s first intercontinental ballistic missile test, amid fears it could reach as far as Alaska.


North Korea declared Tuesday that it had finally achieved its dream of building an intercontinental ballistic missile, saying it would 'fundamentally put an end to the US nuclear war threat and blackmail'.


U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson later confirmed the latest missile test was with an intercontinental ballistic missile.


And Tillerson says that’s a new escalation of the threat posed to the United States and the world by North Korea.

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - hit `em inna pocketbook - dat'll make `em sit up an' take notice...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
Treasury Secretary Announces Sanctions Against Chinese Bank in Crackdown on North Korea
June 30, 2017 | Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin on Thursday announced U.S. sanctions against China's Bank of Dandong for its dealings with North Korea.


"Today, the Trump administration is continuing its efforts against the government of North Korea. Despite multiple U.N. Security Council resolutions imposing international sanctions, the government of North Korea continues its nuclear and ballistic missile programs," Mnuchin said Thursday during a televised White House briefing. "Today, Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network has found the Bank of Dandong to be a foreign financial institution of primary money laundering concern under Section 311 of the U.S.A Patriot Act. This bank has served as a gateway for North Korea to access the U.S. and international financial systems, facilitating millions of dollars of transactions for companies involved in North Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile programs," Mnuchin said. "The United States will not stand for such action. "This will require U.S. banks to ensure that the Bank of Dandong does not access the U.S. financial system directly or indirectly through other foreign banks. This action reaffirms the Treasury Department’s commitment to ensure that North Korea is cut off from the U.S. financial system," he said.

Sanctions were also announced by Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) against two Chinese individuals and one Chinese company in response to North Korea's weapons of mass destruction development and continued violations of United Nations Security Council resolutions. Chinese citizen Sun Wei, who has been closely aligned with the U.S.-designated Foreign Trade Bank in establishing and running a cover company on behalf of the bank, and Chinese citizen Li Hong Ri, who established several front companies used by Beijing-based, U.S.-designated Ri Song Hyok, were targeted by sanctions.

Dalian Global Unity Shipping Company was also sanctioned for operating in the transportation industry in the North Korean economy. The company was actively involved in eight cases of smuggling luxury goods. It reportedly transports 700,000 tons of freight annually, including coal and steel products, between China and North Korea. "While today’s actions are directed at Chinese individuals and entities, we look forward to continuing working closely with the government of China to stop illicit financing involving North Korea. We are in no way targeting China with these actions. We will be meeting with China and other countries at the G20 next week to further our efforts to cut off North Korea’s illicit activities," Mnuchin said. "North Korea’s provocative, destabilizing, and inhumane behavior will not be tolerated. We are committed to targeting North Korea’s external enablers in maximizing economic pressure on the regime until it ceases its nuclear and ballistic missile programs," he said. "This is very significant, since this is the first bank that we’ve cut off under this," Mnuchin said, adding that the U.S. "will continue to look at these actions and continue to roll out sanctions." "As I said, in this case it’s millions of dollars, but we are committed to cutting off all illegal funds going to North Korea," he added.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/treasury-secretary-announces-sanctions-against-chinese-bank-crackdown

[Refugee]

North Korea; always an interesting subject, but forget the bluster, hype and rhetoric. No one wants to see N. Korea collapse and that includes the US if millions of ‘zombies’ flood into S. Korea, or East into China, where the Chinese will happily shoot those who cross the border and have done in the past. As for the ‘Dear Leader’ and his cronies who rule N. Korea, they’re a bit too shrewd to take on any developed nation and lose their own power and privilege from the resulting backlash. Entering N. Korea is like going back into a pre-war Stalinist time warp, but it’s also a warning. It’s what the west would look like after half a century of Obama’s and if the European Union commissioners had their way. This will all blow over, as it regularly does. N. Korea will be promised more aid, the ‘dear one’ will back down and everyone stays happy. :)

[Peter1469]

I don't think the US should enter NK with ground forces either. We don't want to be on the hook for fixing that communist paradise. We may need to use air and naval power to destroy their offensive capabilities to include their nuclear program.


When the refugees run in every direction I bet they won't be swimming to US shores.

Also, NK can't back down. The US condition for any favorable treatment is a cessation of its nuclear program. NK won't do that.




North Korea; always an interesting subject, but forget the bluster, hype and rhetoric. No one wants to see N. Korea collapse and that includes the US if millions of ‘zombies’ flood into S. Korea, or East into China, where the Chinese will happily shoot those who cross the border and have done in the past. As for the ‘Dear Leader’ and his cronies who rule N. Korea, they’re a bit too shrewd to take on any developed nation and lose their own power and privilege from the resulting backlash. Entering N. Korea is like going back into a pre-war Stalinist time warp, but it’s also a warning. It’s what the west would look like after half a century of Obama’s and if the European Union commissioners had their way. This will all blow over, as it regularly does. N. Korea will be promised more aid, the ‘dear one’ will back down and everyone stays happy. :)

[MisterVeritis]

Once war begins expect defense only long enough to move additional ground forces and material into the theater.

I do not believe we will have peace. If you are not already considering how a war with North Korea will change your life now is a good time to begin thinking about it.

The piece Peter linked to lightly glosses over mobile missiles and old submarines. We have enormous difficulty finding mobile launchers. I do not believe we will find them.

Plan on deaths and destruction. Such is the way of all wars. We can win this war and we must do so.

[MisterVeritis]

I don't think the US should enter NK with ground forces either. We don't want to be on the hook for fixing that communist paradise. We may need to use air and naval power to destroy their offensive capabilities to include their nuclear program.

When the refugees run in every direction I bet they won't be swimming to US shores.
Also, NK can't back down. The US condition for any favorable treatment is a cessation of its nuclear program. NK won't do that.
Of course, we will invade North Korea. I predict the Chinese will be allowed/encouraged to have observers in our command centers to observe and report.

[Peter1469]

The question is what wins a war with NK.

I would say destroying NK’s nuclear program, and its offensive capacity is enough for us. I could care less if their crappy nation continues to exist and repress its people. Additionally avoiding an invasion of NK would help in preventing a repeat of the Korean War when hundreds of thousands of Chinese joined the fight.


Once war begins expect defense only long enough to move additional ground forces and material into the theater.

I do not believe we will have peace. If you are not already considering how a war with North Korea will change your life now is a good time to begin thinking about it.

The piece Peter linked to lightly glosses over mobile missiles and old submarines. We have enormous difficulty finding mobile launchers. I do not believe we will find them.

Plan on deaths and destruction. Such is the way of all wars. We can win this war and we must do so.

[MisterVeritis]

The question is what wins a war with NK.

I would say destroying NK’s nuclear program, and its offensive capacity is enough for us. I could care less if their crappy nation continues to exist and repress its people. Additionally avoiding an invasion of NK would help in preventing a repeat of the Korean War when hundreds of thousands of Chinese joined the fight.
That does not win the war.

Boots on the ground win the war. American boots. South Korean boots.

China will not, in my opinion, invade North Korea to fight US and South Korean forces. I believe we will invite Chinese observers to integrate at every command center down to Corps level by day two or three. Integration will take place beginning with the combatant commander's headquarters and then working its way down to nonfighting command centers.

It is not the 1950s.

[Peter1469]

We disagree on this point then.

I will oppose any attempt to invade and conquer NK. All we need to do is as I said above- destroy their ability to wage offensive war.


That does not win the war.

Boots on the ground win the war. American boots. South Korean boots.

China will not, in my opinion, invade North Korea to fight US and South Korean forces. I believe we will invite Chinese observers to integrate at every command center down to Corps level by day two or three. Integration will take place beginning with the combatant commander's headquarters and then working its way down to nonfighting command centers.

It is not the 1950s.

[MisterVeritis]

We disagree on this point then.

I will oppose any attempt to invade and conquer NK. All we need to do is as I said above- destroy their ability to wage offensive war.
I do not believe you will do anything Peter. No boots on the ground equals no win. Why not just surrender to the North Koreans?

[Peter1469]

I do not believe you will do anything Peter. No boots on the ground equals no win. Why not just surrender to the North Koreans?

Incorrect.


The vital key for the US here is North Korea's soon-ability to hit the US with a nuclear armed missile. An ICBM. Possibly as an EMP attack- which would kill 90% of Americans over the course of a year.


That is what we really want to prevent. Our Goal (ends in the ends ways means strategic analysis). So the way to achieve that is to destroy the NK nuclear program. We can do that with air power and possibly tactical nuclear weapons. In doing so we would need as a side issue to destroy the NK artillery pieces along the DMZ to prevent the annihilation of Seoul. Again that can be done with air power and counter battery fire. Of course, as another side issue, we will help clear out the North Korean combat forces who entered the ROK. But those last two things are not primary concerns for the US.

We gain nothing from invading, destroying or otherwise occupying NK. They have nothing we want, and it raises too much risk of Chinese and Russian counter-responses.

[MisterVeritis]

Incorrect.
The vital key for the US here is North Korea's soon-ability to hit the US with a nuclear armed missile. An ICBM. Possibly as an EMP attack- which would kill 90% of Americans over the course of a year.
That is what we really want to prevent. Our Goal (ends in the ends ways means strategic analysis). So the way to achieve that is to destroy the NK nuclear program. We can do that with air power and possibly tactical nuclear weapons. In doing so we would need as a side issue to destroy the NK artillery pieces along the DMZ to prevent the annihilation of Seoul. Again that can be done with air power and counter battery fire. Of course, as another side issue, we will help clear out the North Korean combat forces who entered the ROK. But those last two things are not primary concerns for the US.

We gain nothing from invading, destroying or otherwise occupying NK. They have nothing we want, and it raises too much risk of Chinese and Russian counter-responses.
We are not the only player, Peter. Nor is your solution likely to be successful. Maybe we should offer well-paying jobs to every North Korean scientist and engineer.

What do you believe happens when we attack and destroy some percentage of the North Korean nuclear capability? Do the North Koreans roll over? Or do they attack South Korea and Americans and American assets they can reach in the US and abroad? When North Korea attacks South into South Korea what do you believe will happen?

Destroying the artillery sites will require boots on the ground. It cannot be done through air power alone. Wars take on lives of their own once started. If we intend to start one we better intend to win it. You, clearly do not. Do you?

[Peter1469]

We are not the only player, Peter. Nor is your solution likely to be successful. Maybe we should offer well-paying jobs to every North Korean scientist and engineer.

What do you believe happens when we attack and destroy some percentage of the North Korean nuclear capability? Do the North Koreans roll over? Or do they attack South Korea and Americans and American assets they can reach in the US and abroad? When North Korea attacks South into South Korea what do you believe will happen?

Destroying the artillery sites will require boots on the ground. It cannot be done through air power alone. Wars take on lives of their own once started. If we intend to start one we better intend to win it. You, clearly do not. Do you?

So far as the artillery sites go, using boots on the ground to root out those that are not destroy doesn't put US troops very far into NK. I am speaking out against any US need of a general invasion of the country.

[MisterVeritis]

So far as the artillery sites go, using boots on the ground to root out those that are not destroy doesn't put US troops very far into NK. I am speaking out against any US need of a general invasion of the country.
In for a penny. In for a pound. I believe we will see a combined US-ROK attack north in the West with a ROK-only attack in the East. Of course, it will be ROK troops bearing the brunt of the fighting north of Seoul. Honor requires it. Once the war begins ROK forces will take the NK capital city.

[Peter1469]

In for a penny. In for a pound. I believe we will see a combined US-ROK attack north in the West with a ROK-only attack in the East. Of course, it will be ROK troops bearing the brunt of the fighting north of Seoul. Honor requires it. Once the war begins ROK forces will take the NK capital city.
That isn't even very far from the border. Take it. Burn it. Salt the earth. Leave.

[MisterVeritis]

That isn't even very far from the border. Take it. Burn it. Salt the earth. Leave.
It is a small country. This time the ROK will remain in both portions of the country. The Chinese are not coming. We should plan as if they will try.

[Peter1469]

It is a small country. This time the ROK will remain in both portions of the country. The Chinese are not coming. We should plan as if they will try.

Ultimately, the US has zero vital interests in North Korea except to ensure it can't attack the US mainland. That is it.

We can help out allies here and there. But that is not our primary purpose.

Anyway, work tomorrow. Peace out.

[MisterVeritis]

Ultimately, the US has zero vital interests in North Korea except to ensure it can't attack the US mainland. That is it.
We can help out allies here and there. But that is not our primary purpose.
Anyway, work tomorrow. Peace out.
Once a shooting war begins there is no substitute for victory, this time.

[Refugee]

First, you can’t invade and fight a country like N. Korea. This isn’t an army, it’s a whole population of 60+ years indoctrination. China too isn’t going to stand back and lose its Eastern buffer state between it and the US bases in Korea/Japan – it just isn’t going to happen.

Russia is coming in from the North through the Bearing Straits, N. Korea is sending over ICBM’s and meanwhile Assad is stockpiling his WMD’s . . . No disrespect folks, but have you noticed in the last few decades despite the rhetoric of everyone is about to invade/destroy or bomb the US, it’s actually the US who is doing the invading, destroying and bombing?

Haven’t we heard all this before though? A few years ago it was Putin about to invade the Baltics. NATO got themselves ready and . . . nothing happened. Never mind, onto the Ukraine as the EU and the US try to grab the oil pipe lines, stage a coup and get promptly kicked out. Next, down to Syria and Assad, who’s got WMD’s and is a threat to humanity (where have we heard that one before). Throw in Libya and Iraq and what have they all got in common? They all abandoned the US dollar.

I can’t remember whether I’ve mentioned this before, but in your quieter moments have a half hour read of this, because this lies at the bottom of all the coups, bombings and invasions for the past half century. It’s a fascinating read and having got the gist of this, you’ll look on what’s happening in the world now in a whole new light. :smiley:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php#axzz3pe5Rclsm (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php#axzz3pe5Rclsm)

[MisterVeritis]

First, you can’t invade and fight a country like N. Korea. This isn’t an army, it’s a whole population of 60+ years indoctrination. China too isn’t going to stand back and lose its Eastern buffer state between it and the US bases in Korea/Japan – it just isn’t going to happen.

Maybe you can't. What will the North Korean civilians fight with? Once an area has been taken the ROK Army can feed the North Koreans and provide medical care.

What do you believe China will do?

[Peter1469]

Once a shooting war begins there is no substitute for victory, this time.

Right.

I define victory in the terms of vital US interests and avoid needless mission creep.

[MisterVeritis]

Right.
I define victory in the terms of vital US interests and avoid needless mission creep.
Be specific. What is victory?

[Peter1469]

Be specific. What is victory?

Already stated.

Repetition won't make it more or less my point.

[Refugee]

Maybe you can't. What will the North Korean civilians fight with? Once an area has been taken the ROK Army can feed the North Koreans and provide medical care. What do you believe China will do? The reason the US and NATO have stopped ‘boots on the ground’ invasions is that they learned the hard way in places like Afghanistan and Iraq that you don’t just conquer and subdue by armed force and then try to westernise countries. Look back over the post war era; Vietnam and Korea and more recently Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria . . . all the billions spent, the lives lost and the invasions and bombings haven’t altered anything. What would NK fight with? This. http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-39606596/north-korea-displays-its-military-might-in-huge-parade That doesn’t mean they’d win, they certainly wouldn’t militarily, but this is a whole lot different from fighting Al-Queda in Afghanistan caves and a rag tag Iraq army. China doesn’t want, but is quite prepared for war and has already said so on numerous occasions if the US or NATO try to use armed force in their back yard – ditto Russia. Do they have a point? http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-is-our-enemy-putin-wants-war-the-globalists-drive-towards-the-east-drang-nach-osten/5591044 In particular, look at the 2nd image down – ‘U.S. Bases near Russia’. That’s not defence and that’s why everyone is getting upset. I think that the west has to acknowledge that others too have ‘backyards’ and gone are the days of taking on a rag tag bunch armed with old AK47’s and losing at that. NK is one thing, but if that drags Russia and China in, both the US and NATO might live to regret it and they know it. It’s why NATO didn’t invade the Ukraine and despite all the bluster, the US didn’t do anything to stop China’s expansion in the South Sea Islands. NK is a failed state propped up by China and will back down if China says so. Taking out the nuclear facilities is one thing, but invasion is definitely one scenario that could lead to WW3.

[MisterVeritis]

The reason the US and NATO have stopped ‘boots on the ground’ invasions is that they learned the hard way in places like Afghanistan and Iraq that you don’t just conquer and subdue by armed force and then try to westernise countries. Look back over the post war era; Vietnam and Korea and more recently Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria . . . all the billions spent, the lives lost and the invasions and bombings haven’t altered anything. What would NK fight with? This. http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-39606596/north-korea-displays-its-military-might-in-huge-parade That doesn’t mean they’d win, they certainly wouldn’t militarily, but this is a whole lot different from fighting Al-Queda in Afghanistan caves and a rag tag Iraq army. China doesn’t want, but is quite prepared for war and has already said so on numerous occasions if the US or NATO try to use armed force in their back yard – ditto Russia. Do they have a point? http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-is-our-enemy-putin-wants-war-the-globalists-drive-towards-the-east-drang-nach-osten/5591044 In particular, look at the 2nd image down – ‘U.S. Bases near Russia’. That’s not defence and that’s why everyone is getting upset. I think that the west has to acknowledge that others too have ‘backyards’ and gone are the days of taking on a rag tag bunch armed with old AK47’s and losing at that. NK is one thing, but if that drags Russia and China in, both the US and NATO might live to regret it and they know it. It’s why NATO didn’t invade the Ukraine and despite all the bluster, the US didn’t do anything to stop China’s expansion in the South Sea Islands. NK is a failed state propped up by China and will back down if China says so. Taking out the nuclear facilities is one thing, but invasion is definitely one scenario that could lead to WW3.
I hate text walls.

What would the North Korean civilians fight with? Use your own words.

What do you believe China would do and why? Use your own words.

[Peter1469]

The reason the US and NATO have stopped ‘boots on the ground’ invasions is that they learned the hard way in places like Afghanistan and Iraq that you don’t just conquer and subdue by armed force and then try to westernise countries. Look back over the post war era; Vietnam and Korea and more recently Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria . . . all the billions spent, the lives lost and the invasions and bombings haven’t altered anything. What would NK fight with? This. http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-39606596/north-korea-displays-its-military-might-in-huge-parade That doesn’t mean they’d win, they certainly wouldn’t militarily, but this is a whole lot different from fighting Al-Queda in Afghanistan caves and a rag tag Iraq army. China doesn’t want, but is quite prepared for war and has already said so on numerous occasions if the US or NATO try to use armed force in their back yard – ditto Russia. Do they have a point? http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-is-our-enemy-putin-wants-war-the-globalists-drive-towards-the-east-drang-nach-osten/5591044 In particular, look at the 2nd image down – ‘U.S. Bases near Russia’. That’s not defence and that’s why everyone is getting upset. I think that the west has to acknowledge that others too have ‘backyards’ and gone are the days of taking on a rag tag bunch armed with old AK47’s and losing at that. NK is one thing, but if that drags Russia and China in, both the US and NATO might live to regret it and they know it. It’s why NATO didn’t invade the Ukraine and despite all the bluster, the US didn’t do anything to stop China’s expansion in the South Sea Islands. NK is a failed state propped up by China and will back down if China says so. Taking out the nuclear facilities is one thing, but invasion is definitely one scenario that could lead to WW3.


Focus on the last sentence.

[Refugee]

I hate text walls. What would the North Korean civilians fight with? Use your own words. What do you believe China would do and why? Use your own words. I hate text walls too, but I’ve always had a problem with posting. At times it comes out ok, but often, no matter how much I try to paragraph, it just comes out as a block. I tried to edit around six times in that last post and got nowhere. I’ll try later, it’s just coming out in blocks again.

[Refugee]

I hate text walls. What would the North Korean civilians fight with? Use your own words. What do you believe China would do and why? Use your own words.
The North Koreans would fight with the military equipment in the last link
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asi...in-huge-parade (http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asi...in-huge-parade)

it’s only 42 seconds, watch that short vid in the link above – gone are the days of Korea and Vietnam with hordes of poorly armed soldiers running to their deaths.

Having that destroyed, they’d fight an occupier with the same basic weapons used in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan. Think about this: The world’s best with the top military equipment on the planet all tried to beat a bunch of backward Islamists in Afghanistan and decades later they’re still trying. We can’t even
stop fanatical bombings in Europe’s capitals, never mind defeat and occupy whole countries.

China would use military force and has already told the west it will do so. Not proxy wars as in Syria, but direct confrontation and that’s something that the west can’t win in China’s backyard. I believe that the western public is very complacent, as all the destruction, the shock and awe, all happen elsewhere, or on computer games. Places like Russia and China can take hits, but drop one missile in the US or Europe, stop welfare benefits for a month, or turn of the
power for a week and the west will plunge into social anarchy. The west will fight wars elsewhere, with developing countries, but not at the risk of taking
hits on its own soil if China threatened to join in.

The same phrases reoccur; we’ll invade em, take em over, and when we’ve done that . . . but it’s never succeeded anywhere it has been tried. The French in Indo
China, the US in Vietnam, NATO in Afghanistan . . . it’s why the invasions have stopped. Kiev in the Ukraine was 434 miles from Moscow, Pyongyang (North Korea borders China) is 500 miles from Beijing – an invasion isn’t going to be allowed to happen, just as Russia stopped a NATO Ukraine invasion. North Korea will make excuses and back down if it gets too serious.

Despite all the ‘expert’ opinions and mass media hype on NK missiles being able to reach the US, the last tested missile on July 4th flew for 35 minutes before it
came down. Their technology is still in its infancy. As I said before, it’s just another variation of Putin is a threat to humanity, Saddam has WMD’s and
Assad has stockpiled chemical weapons. It will all blow over eventually.

My whole point is that you can’t subdue culture and indoctrination with military force. Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan . . . it doesn’t work.
The main reason it will never happen is that I’m nearing retirement and will spend my days relaxing by the sea, not floating around as vaporised dust particles in
the stratosphere! :)