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IMPress Polly
04-15-2017, 07:36 AM
"I think he shouldn't have settled; personally I think he shouldn't have settled. Because you should have taken it all the way. I don't think Bill [O'Reilly] did anything wrong." -The "reformed" Donald Trump last week, defending sexual harassment and assault again, days after proclaiming April Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month


I'm sure we've all noticed that the American news media has become far more supportive of the Trump Administration since the unprovoked, blatantly illegal bombing of a foreign government last week. (Thank goodness things are back to normal! :rollseyes:) The corporate press claims that this action and other recent shall we say loosenings of the rules of engagement somehow show that the White House is, of all things, "moderating" its views. (I'm not kidding.) Let's examine what the merits of this claim are.

First, how did we get here? After Trump "won" November's election, corporate America responded with sustained excitement in anticipation of even more pro-corporate policies than have already been established, as shown not only in the subsequent statements and actions of a great many business executives, but also, and perhaps more profoundly, in the stock market's seemingly endless series of rallies that have followed ever since. Normally, the for-profit press goes along with its corporate masters (i.e. advertisers) for painfully obvious commercial reasons, and indeed that's initially what happened. The initial period following the election saw the news media broadly call upon those of us in the streets to sit down, shut up, and get in line with the new normal. Then, immediately after the inauguration, they got a taste of what the new normal means for them when the new Press Secretary Sean Spicer and Trump's Chief Strategist Steve Bannon declared all-out war on the news media, proclaiming them "the enemy of the people" and renewing threats of official censorship. That seemed to have FINALLY changed their attitude. Survival instincts now kicked in and suddenly we in the Resistance were to be generally respected and the administration to answer for its unprecedented for-profit status, its increasingly evident collaboration with a hostile foreign government, racially charged travel and border policies, health care cuts, tax return concealment, etc. The polls indicate that the press clearly won this war with the White House for credibility, as the public has consistently indicated greater trust in the news media than in the word of the new president. Then along came a bombing.

The bombing of a government air field in Syria contradicted the new Secretary of State and former ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson's endorsement of the Assad regime the preceding week, which had been followed by the regime's decision to stage a large-scale chemical attack in the city of Idlib, subsequent to which former Breitbart executive Steve Bannon was fired from the National Security Council and a volley of cruise missiles was sent in the direction of the air field that had launched said chemical attack. (The latter developments were particularly remarkable given that Mr. Trump had not been so concerned about the implications of the Syrian regime's much larger 2013 chemical attack, subsequent to which he repeatedly warned Obama against responding militarily. One then questions what the real motive here was.) The press has taken the decline of Bannon within the administration as a sign that Trump is tempering his views.

Before becoming the Trump Administration's top advisor, Steve Bannon ran the ethno-nationalist and male supremacist online newspaper Breitbart following a career as a naval officer, Goldman Sachs vice president, and creator of the whacko Biosphere 2 project and documentaries like Occupy Unmasked. He has also been charged with domestic violence and embraced a postmodernist variety of Leninist Marxism (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html) that apparently is compatible with capitalism and "identify politics for white people, Christians, and men". (For further examples of the fascistic trajectory that Marxist theory has been on since the end of the Cold War, see my recent commentary on that subject (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/78982-From-Marxism-to-Fascism).) It was Bannon who crafted the Muslim ban (all versions) and whose ideas have served as the general ideological center of gravity for the Trump Administration up until last week. Bannon's influence over Trump could be felt not only in his chief strategist position, but also in Donald Trump's many statements calling for a rapprochement with the world's dictators in favor of using the American military to help them police their subjects instead of overthrowing and replacing them as per neoliberal doctrine. The administration's unwillingness to criticize Russia for anything and its endorsement of the Assad regime two weeks ago served as early examples of that perspective in action that probably would have led to something much worse yet. One of my many particular concerns about this not-so-much-anti-imperialist-as-anti-democratic perspective was that it might very well ultimately position our military in diametrical opposition to the Kurdish-led anarchist uprising in Rojava, Syria (since said uprising is as least tacitly opposed by Assad's government), which is one of the only bright spots in the world today in my view.

I once tended to defend people like Vladimir Putin and Bashar Al Assad against their Western opponents who were obviously motivated by profit-driven imperial ambitions (as in the case of Crimea's yes free and valid decision to join the Russian Federation, for example). My opinion of them has soured though in the last couple of years. I defended Putin, for example, when he was proposing to expand Russia's public welfare system and ostensibly destroying Syria's chemical weapons supplies. More recently though, we have seen that Putin has embraced austerity budgeting against the Russian poor while simultaneously managing to find plenty of money with which to launch a full-scale, 150,000-troop invasion and occupation of Syria with the express permission of its ostensibly nationalist government. And the supposedly destroyed chemical weapons have resurfaced. Putin's early endorsement of and (yes apparent) collaboration with Trump's presidential campaign hasn't helped his image with me either. Neither has his recent decriminalization of domestic violence in Russia. These sorts of things have changed by baseline opinion on Russia and the subject of the Syrian Civil War. Concerning the latter, I really only consider myself supportive of the Kurdish-led forces in the north of the country at this point, to which end I suppose you can say that I am a bit relieved by the Trump gang's new policy in that country, as it seems unlikely now that there will ever be a confrontation between those forces and ours. That said, none of this means that I actually support the recent American military action against the Assad puppet government either. Neither should anyone. Its motivation obviously comes from a place of seeking to get the Russia collaboration story out of the news. Remarkably, it has largely succeeded despite some of the most alarming developments yet having come out of the investigations since. For example, Donald Trump's campaign manager for most of last year, Paul Manafort, has now decided to formally register as an agent of the Russian government and Britain's intelligence services have revealed in recent days that they have evidence of Trump-Russia collaboration going back not only to last year, but as far back as 2015! Apparently the investigations are no longer news though now that we can see that Mr. Trump has only illicitly conspired with Putin's government rather than actually being fully controlled by it. :rollseyes:

The implications of Bannon's decline should not be exaggerated. The commercial press is casting it as a move away from the ethno-nationalist "alt-right" politics the administration has pursued up to this point. Only in this one area is that true, however. Bannon, Miller, and Sessions are all still in the administration, people, and Sessions' escalating deportation policies indeed seem to enjoy the full blessing of Trump himself. The administration is also still pursuing the implementation of Mr. Bannon's proposed Muslim ban through legal channels. And frankly, even if all these ideogical lite fascists were expelled from the Trump White House (as they should be), the president's personal volatility by itself would continue to render him intrinsically exceptionally authoritarian and dangerous regardless of the group he might surround himself with. Take another look at the quote at the top of this post if you don't believe me.

Besides all of this, it just seems pathetic to me that I now have to feel relieved about a return to the sort of neo-conservative military policies that were pursued by the Bush Administration; that I must now regard THAT as moderation and progress! It is absolutely pathetic to turn on CNN and watch an interview with a traditional Reagan Republican like Arnold Schwarzenegger and feel like he sounds almost reasonable now compared to what modern Republicanism represents even though the Reaganites were once themselves regarded as dangerous ultra-right lunatics! I find it pathetic that that's how far to the right the definition of centrism has moved, and I DON'T feel like accepting it. Trump is still an exceptionally corrupt, deceitful, and dangerous president regardless of Bannon's personal stature within the White House.

The ease with which the press has come back around to Trump's side is a testament to how low its standards actually are, how unreliable an ally it is, and how divorced its collective mentality is from that of the people. Throughout this whole episode, Trump's approval rating has remained upside down by a margin of 15 points, town hall meetings have begun heating up again, and today's Tax March calling on Trump to finally release his tax returns so we can see what he's hiding in them is expected to be the largest anti-Trump rally since the Women's March on January 21st, with hundreds of thousands expected to participate across the country. That's how interested the population is interested in a rapprochement with the White House. It appears that all the corporate press needed though was a more liberal, "pro-democratic" brand of militarism. The news media should go back to doing its job. Maybe a little rude awakening from the actual public today will help supply the needed motivation.

Bethere
04-15-2017, 11:04 AM
"I think he shouldn't have settled; personally I think he shouldn't have settled. Because you should have taken it all the way. I don't think Bill [O'Reilly] did anything wrong." -The "reformed" Donald Trump last week, defending sexual harassment and assault again, days after proclaiming April Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month


I'm sure we've all noticed that the American news media has become far more supportive of the Trump Administration since the unprovoked, blatantly illegal bombing of a foreign government last week. (Thank goodness things are back to normal! :rollseyes:) The corporate press claims that this action and other recent shall we say loosenings of the rules of engagement somehow show that the White House is, of all things, "moderating" its views. (I'm not kidding.) Let's examine what the merits of this claim are.

First, how did we get here? After Trump "won" November's election, corporate America responded with sustained excitement in anticipation of even more pro-corporate policies than have already been established, as shown not only in the subsequent statements and actions of a great many business executives, but also, and perhaps more profoundly, in the stock market's seemingly endless series of rallies that have followed ever since. Normally, the for-profit press goes along with its corporate masters (i.e. advertisers) for painfully obvious commercial reasons, and indeed that's initially what happened. The initial period following the election saw the news media broadly call upon those of us in the streets to sit down, shut up, and get in line with the new normal. Then, immediately after the inauguration, they got a taste of what the new normal means for them when the new Press Secretary Sean Spicer and Trump's Chief Strategist Steve Bannon declared all-out war on the news media, proclaiming them "the enemy of the people" and renewing threats of official censorship. That seemed to have FINALLY changed their attitude. Survival instincts now kicked in and suddenly we in the Resistance were to be generally respected and the administration to answer for its unprecedented for-profit status, its increasingly evident collaboration with a hostile foreign government, racially charged travel and border policies, health care cuts, tax return concealment, etc. The polls indicate that the press clearly won this war with the White House for credibility, as the public has consistently indicated greater trust in the news media than in the word of the new president. Then along came a bombing.

The bombing of a government air field in Syria contradicted the new Secretary of State and former ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson's endorsement of the Assad regime the preceding week, which had been followed by the regime's decision to stage a large-scale chemical attack in the city of Idlib, subsequent to which former Breitbart executive Steve Bannon was fired from the National Security Council and a volley of cruise missiles was sent in the direction of the air field that had launched said chemical attack. (The latter developments were particularly remarkable given that Mr. Trump had not been so concerned about the implications of the Syrian regime's much larger 2013 chemical attack, subsequent to which he repeatedly warned Obama against responding militarily. One then questions what the real motive here was.) The press has taken the decline of Bannon within the administration as a sign that Trump is tempering his views.

Before becoming the Trump Administration's top advisor, Steve Bannon ran the ethno-nationalist and male supremacist online newspaper Breitbart following a career as a naval officer, Goldman Sachs vice president, and creator of the whacko Biosphere 2 project and documentaries like Occupy Unmasked. He has also been charged with domestic violence and embraced a postmodernist variety of Leninist Marxism (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html) that apparently is compatible with capitalism and "identify politics for white people, Christians, and men". (For further examples of the fascistic trajectory that Marxist theory has been on since the end of the Cold War, see my recent commentary on that subject (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/78982-From-Marxism-to-Fascism).) It was Bannon who crafted the Muslim ban (all versions) and whose ideas have served as the general ideological center of gravity for the Trump Administration up until last week. Bannon's influence over Trump could be felt not only in his chief strategist position, but also in Donald Trump's many statements calling for a rapprochement with the world's dictators in favor of using the American military to help them police their subjects instead of overthrowing and replacing them as per neoliberal doctrine. The administration's unwillingness to criticize Russia for anything and its endorsement of the Assad regime two weeks ago served as early examples of that perspective in action that probably would have led to something much worse yet. One of my many particular concerns about this not-so-much-anti-imperialist-as-anti-democratic perspective was that it might very well ultimately position our military in diametrical opposition to the Kurdish-led anarchist uprising in Rojava, Syria (since said uprising is as least tacitly opposed by Assad's government), which is one of the only bright spots in the world today in my view.

I once tended to defend people like Vladimir Putin and Bashar Al Assad against their Western opponents who were obviously motivated by profit-driven imperial ambitions (as in the case of Crimea's yes free and valid decision to join the Russian Federation, for example). My opinion of them has soured though in the last couple of years. I defended Putin, for example, when he was proposing to expand Russia's public welfare system and ostensibly destroying Syria's chemical weapons supplies. More recently though, we have seen that Putin has embraced austerity budgeting against the Russian poor while simultaneously managing to find plenty of money with which to launch a full-scale, 150,000-troop invasion and occupation of Syria with the express permission of its ostensibly nationalist government. And the supposedly destroyed chemical weapons have resurfaced. Putin's early endorsement of and (yes apparent) collaboration with Trump's presidential campaign hasn't helped his image with me either. Neither has his recent decriminalization of domestic violence in Russia. These sorts of things have changed by baseline opinion on Russia and the subject of the Syrian Civil War. Concerning the latter, I really only consider myself supportive of the Kurdish-led forces in the north of the country at this point, to which end I suppose you can say that I am a bit relieved by the Trump gang's new policy in that country, as it seems unlikely now that there will ever be a confrontation between those forces and ours. That said, none of this means that I actually support the recent American military action against the Assad puppet government either. Neither should anyone. Its motivation obviously comes from a place of seeking to get the Russia collaboration story out of the news. Remarkably, it has largely succeeded despite some of the most alarming developments yet having come out of the investigations since. For example, Donald Trump's campaign manager for most of last year, Paul Manafort, has now decided to formally register as an agent of the Russian government and Britain's intelligence services have revealed in recent days that they have evidence of Trump-Russia collaboration going back not only to last year, but as far back as 2015! Apparently the investigations are no longer news though now that we can see that Mr. Trump has only illicitly conspired with Putin's government rather than actually being fully controlled by it. :rollseyes:

The implications of Bannon's decline should not be exaggerated. The commercial press is casting it as a move away from the ethno-nationalist "alt-right" politics the administration has pursued up to this point. Only in this one area is that true, however. Bannon, Miller, and Sessions are all still in the administration, people, and Sessions' escalating deportation policies indeed seem to enjoy the full blessing of Trump himself. The administration is also still pursuing the implementation of Mr. Bannon's proposed Muslim ban through legal channels. And frankly, even if all these ideogical lite fascists were expelled from the Trump White House (as they should be), the president's personal volatility by itself would continue to render him intrinsically exceptionally authoritarian and dangerous regardless of the group he might surround himself with. Take another look at the quote at the top of this post if you don't believe me.

Besides all of this, it just seems pathetic to me that I now have to feel relieved about a return to the sort of neo-conservative military policies that were pursued by the Bush Administration; that I must now regard THAT as moderation and progress! It is absolutely pathetic to turn on CNN and watch an interview with a traditional Reagan Republican like Arnold Schwarzenegger and feel like he sounds almost reasonable now compared to what modern Republicanism represents even though the Reaganites were once themselves regarded as dangerous ultra-right lunatics! I find it pathetic that that's how far to the right the definition of centrism has moved, and I DON'T feel like accepting it. Trump is still an exceptionally corrupt, deceitful, and dangerous president regardless of Bannon's personal stature within the White House.

The ease with which the press has come back around to Trump's side is a testament to how low its standards actually are, how unreliable an ally it is, and how divorced its collective mentality is from that of the people. Throughout this whole episode, Trump's approval rating has remained upside down by a margin of 15 points, town hall meetings have begun heating up again, and today's Tax March calling on Trump to finally release his tax returns so we can see what he's hiding in them is expected to be the largest anti-Trump rally since the Women's March on January 21st, with hundreds of thousands expected to participate across the country. That's how interested the population is interested in a rapprochement with the White House. It appears that all the corporate press needed though was a more liberal, "pro-democratic" brand of militarism. The news media should go back to doing its job. Maybe a little rude awakening from the actual public today will help supply the needed motivation.

You either owe us a link or we owe you thanks for your 3000 word essay.

Which is it?

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 11:11 AM
I'm sure we've all noticed that the American news media has become far more supportive of the Trump Administration since the unprovoked, blatantly illegal bombing of a foreign government last week. (


I haven't noticed that, could you provide any examples of this?

Green Arrow
04-15-2017, 11:42 AM
You either owe us a link or we owe you thanks for your 3000 word essay.

Which is it?

The latter. Polly always posts original content.

The Xl
04-15-2017, 11:44 AM
The latter. Polly always posts original content.

This. Don't always agree with Polly, but the thought and effort she puts into her content is admirable and to be respected.

IMPress Polly
04-15-2017, 12:38 PM
Green Arrow wrote:
The latter. Polly always posts original content.


The XL wrote:
This. Don't always agree with Polly, but the thought and effort she puts into her content is admirable and to be respected.

Thanks guys! I appreciate it! :smiley:


Tahuyaman wrote:
I haven't noticed that, could you provide any examples of this?

Well I suppose if one only consumes material from the Fake News Channel and other right wing outlets then you might not have noticed any difference since they all support Trump no matter what, but I've certainly noticed the difference! It's not just CNN either. Even in the more liberal/left-leaning press you can see it. For example, "Trump's Heart Came First," (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/syria-attack-trump.html?src=twr&_r=0) gushed an approving New York Times piece in the immediate aftermath of the bombing before the name of the article was changed to a more neutral tone following criticism. The article compares Barack Obama's callous, unmanly reluctance to cross his own red line to Donald's humanist bravery. Here's a fun highlight from that article:

"President Trump has always taken pride in his readiness to act on instinct, whether in real estate or reality television. On Thursday, an emotional Mr. Trump took the greatest risk of his young presidency, ordering a retaliatory missile strike on Syria for its latest chemical weapons attack. In a dizzying 48 hours, he upended a foreign policy doctrine based on putting America first and avoiding messy conflicts in distant lands. Mr. Trump's advisers framed his decision in the dry language of international norms and strategic deterrence. In truth, it was an emotional act by a man suddenly aware that world's problems were now his -- and that turning away, to him, was not an option."

Likewise, the liberal web site Vox explained that we shouldn't worry about this blatantly illegal and remarkably sudden act of war because it was really just meant as a case in moral instruction (http://www.vox.com/2017/4/6/15215132/us-syria-bombing-trump-assad-chemical-weapons). "The goal isn’t to stop the bloodshed in Syria, but rather to send a message to Assad (and potentially other rogue states) that chemical weapons use is out of bounds", the author cautiously minimizes.

And MSNBC's Brian Williams offered perhaps the most despicable of all the bombing defenses, waxing poetic about the beauty of Tomahawk missiles (https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/850243379115941890). Here's a cute excerpt:

"We see these beautiful pictures at night from the decks of these two Navy vessels in the eastern Mediterranean. I am tempted to quote the great Leonard Cohen: "I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons." And they are beautiful pictures, of fearsome armaments making what is, for them, a brief flight over this air field."

Yes. Just to cite a few "liberal" examples there. And these are all considered to be left-leaning opinions and sources. I therefore won't bother wasting your time with the takes of the ordinary centrist neoliberals in our press like CNN's Fareed Zakaria for example, because then this will all start to feel truly redundant. You already know their opinions instinctively. And of course you're almost certainly intimately familiar with the views that prevail in Rupert Murdoch's news empire.

Green Arrow
04-15-2017, 01:07 PM
Thanks guys! I appreciate it! :smiley:



Well I suppose if one only consumes material from the Fake News Channel and other right wing outlets then you might not have noticed any difference since they all support Trump no matter what, but I've certainly noticed the difference! It's not just CNN either. Even in the more liberal/left-leaning press you can see it. For example, "Trump's Heart Came First," (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/syria-attack-trump.html?src=twr&_r=0) gushed an approving New York Times piece in the immediate aftermath of the bombing before the name of the article was changed to a more neutral tone following criticism. The article compares Barack Obama's callous, unmanly reluctance to cross his own red line to Donald's humanist bravery. Here's a fun highlight from that article:

"President Trump has always taken pride in his readiness to act on instinct, whether in real estate or reality television. On Thursday, an emotional Mr. Trump took the greatest risk of his young presidency, ordering a retaliatory missile strike on Syria for its latest chemical weapons attack. In a dizzying 48 hours, he upended a foreign policy doctrine based on putting America first and avoiding messy conflicts in distant lands. Mr. Trump's advisers framed his decision in the dry language of international norms and strategic deterrence. In truth, it was an emotional act by a man suddenly aware that world's problems were now his -- and that turning away, to him, was not an option."

Likewise, the liberal web site Vox explained that we shouldn't worry about this blatantly illegal and remarkably sudden act of war because it was really just meant as a case in moral instruction (http://www.vox.com/2017/4/6/15215132/us-syria-bombing-trump-assad-chemical-weapons). "The goal isn’t to stop the bloodshed in Syria, but rather to send a message to Assad (and potentially other rogue states) that chemical weapons use is out of bounds", the author cautiously minimizes.

And MSNBC's Brian Williams offered perhaps the most despicable of all the bombing defenses, waxing poetic about the beauty of Tomahawk missiles (https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/850243379115941890). Here's a cute excerpt:

"We see these beautiful pictures at night from the decks of these two Navy vessels in the eastern Mediterranean. I am tempted to quote the great Leonard Cohen: "I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons." And they are beautiful pictures, of fearsome armaments making what is, for them, a brief flight over this air field."

Yes. Just to cite a few "liberal" examples there. And these are all considered to be left-leaning opinions and sources. I therefore won't bother wasting your time with the takes of the ordinary centrist neoliberals in our press like CNN's Fareed Zakaria for example, because then this will all start to feel truly redundant. You already know their opinions instinctively. And of course you're almost certainly intimately familiar with the views that prevail in Rupert Murdoch's news empire.

The most troubling part of your examples, to me, is that the NYT example cites Trump's foreign policy doctrine. There is no Trump Doctrine, that has been made patently obvious.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 01:20 PM
I guess now simply stating some facts is considered being supportive?

decedent
04-15-2017, 01:35 PM
The ease with which the press has come back around to Trump's side is a testament to how low its standards actually are...

Does Trump actually care about Syrians? He probably attacked just to get a ratings boost. He's obsessed with ratings.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 02:02 PM
The most troubling part of your examples, to me, is that the NYT example cites Trump's foreign policy doctrine. There is no Trump Doctrine, that has been made patently obvious.
People are viewing Trump as they would a conventional establishment politician. Trump has never been an ideologue. He does not appear to follow one particular ideology. He stands for whatever he thinks will work at any particular moment in time.

The media can't figure him out.

Green Arrow
04-15-2017, 02:04 PM
People are viewing Trump as they would a conventional establishment politician. Trump has never been an ideologue. He does not appear to follow one particular ideology. He stands for whatever he thinks will work at any particular moment in time.

The media can't figure him out.

Yes, and that's incredibly dangerous, particularly in foreign affairs.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 02:05 PM
Does Trump actually care about Syrians? He probably attacked just to get a ratings boost. He's obsessed with ratings.

He also doesn't appear to be concerned with his approval ratings in the various polls.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 02:06 PM
Yes, and that's incredibly dangerous, particularly in foreign affairs.


Only if you continue to think in conventional terms. The world is changing.

decedent
04-15-2017, 02:27 PM
He also doesn't appear to be concerned with his approval ratings in the various polls.

This is hilarious. Trump's obsession with polls is well known to non-hacks.

Green Arrow
04-15-2017, 02:43 PM
Only if you continue to think in conventional terms. The world is changing.

No, it isn't. The lack of any coherent foreign policy philosophy in the Trump administration and any clear foreign policy in several areas is causing chaos on the world stage and making our allies incredibly nervous.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 02:54 PM
This is hilarious. Trump's obsession with polls is well known to non-hacks.. He ridicules them, but he certainly doesn't seem to be guided by them as some past presidents were.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 02:55 PM
No, it isn't. The lack of any coherent foreign policy philosophy in the Trump administration and any clear foreign policy in several areas is causing chaos on the world stage and making our allies incredibly nervous.
You are seeing what you want to see.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 03:01 PM
No, it isn't. The lack of any coherent foreign policy philosophy in the Trump administration and any clear foreign policy in several areas is causing chaos on the world stage and making our allies incredibly nervous.


You don't think the world is changing?


I think you will try to argue anything no matter how ridiculous it may be

Green Arrow
04-15-2017, 03:15 PM
You don't think the world is changing?


I think you will try to argue anything no matter how ridiculous it may be

I think you couldn't be paid to post a coherent argument.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 03:29 PM
I think you couldn't be paid to post a coherent argument.. You can't seem to figure out how to support an argument. So, I'll give your words the consideration they deserve.

Green Arrow
04-15-2017, 03:31 PM
. You can't seem to figure out how to support an argument. So, I'll give your words the consideration they deserve.

Projection.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 04:16 PM
Yep. You got me.


Lol....

IMPress Polly
04-15-2017, 05:46 PM
Tahuyaman wrote:
You are seeing what you want to see.

That would be my exact assessment of the views you've expressed here. Sometimes we just don't want to admit that we made the wrong vote like I did in 2004 and I think probably last year as well.

Tahuyaman
04-15-2017, 06:48 PM
That would be my exact assessment of the views you've expressed here. Sometimes we just don't want to admit that we made the wrong vote like I did in 2004 and I think probably last year as well.


Where was I wrong here?