View Full Version : Work Requirements for Medicaid?
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 10:31 AM
Sounds good to me!
WASHINGTON (AP) — Work requirements for Medicaid could lead to major changes in the social safety net under President Donald Trump.
It sounds like a simple question: Should adults who are able to work be required to do so to get taxpayer provided health insurance?
https://apnews.com/3b939d8522e74e4fa4aabc5b2ef7634b/Under-Trump,-states-may-demand-work-for-Medicaid
Newpublius
04-20-2017, 10:31 AM
Sounds good to me!
https://apnews.com/3b939d8522e74e4fa4aabc5b2ef7634b/Under-Trump,-states-may-demand-work-for-Medicaid
Seems self-evident of course.
Peter1469
04-20-2017, 10:35 AM
We need to reform our entire welfare system.
Abby08
04-20-2017, 10:38 AM
The answer is simple. Yes. If you are able to work a part-time job, you should be required to. Why should the government bear the full brunt of your support?
Chris
04-20-2017, 10:44 AM
Reported on Maine's efforts before. Seems it's working.
New Report Proves Maine's Welfare Reforms Are Working (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/05/19/new-report-proves-maines-welfare-reforms-are-working/#1dce90543f6a)
Maine Gov. Paul LePage’s recent welfare reforms have led to more employment, higher wages, and less dependency, according to a preliminary report published by the Maine Department of Health and Human Services and the Maine Office of Policy and Management.
In October 2014, Maine began requiring about 16,000 able-bodied childless adults to work, train, or volunteer on at least a part-time basis in order to continue receiving food stamps. Adults who refused to comply with the new requirements would cycle off after three months of benefits.
After implementing these reforms, Maine quickly moved thousands of able-bodied adults out of dependency and into self-sufficiency. By January 2015, the number of able-bodied adults on food stamps had dropped to 4,500 and has continued to decline.
These changes drew ire from the Obama administration, especially from Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack. But federal officials missed the huge potential upside of getting more individuals back into the workforce....
patrickt
04-20-2017, 10:45 AM
This will mean a massive shift of people to SSI for "Permanent Emotional Disabilities." The deadbeats will not go to work and the government will not withdraw benefits to make them work. They will simply shuffle them to a different program with even better benefits.
gamewell45
04-20-2017, 10:46 AM
Sounds good to me!
https://apnews.com/3b939d8522e74e4fa4aabc5b2ef7634b/Under-Trump,-states-may-demand-work-for-Medicaid
It appears to be unworkable; where are the jobs going to come from? Those who don't want to work will simply go to the ER for treatment; who is going to determine if they can work and to what level? Will the government have to create a new department to police/oversee the program thus increasing the tax burden on the public?
While the concept may appear attractive, a lot more research has to be done to see if it is a viable program.
Casper
04-20-2017, 11:52 AM
Sounds good to me!
https://apnews.com/3b939d8522e74e4fa4aabc5b2ef7634b/Under-Trump,-states-may-demand-work-for-Medicaid
Sounds good, so long as the State helps them actually get a job, those are not as common as they once were even for skilled workers.
Mini Me
04-20-2017, 11:55 AM
Arbeit Macht Frei "Work will set you free"
https://furtherglory.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/arbeit_macht_frei.jpg
Chris
04-20-2017, 11:56 AM
Sounds good, so long as the State helps them actually get a job, those are not as common as they once were even for skilled workers.
What Maine did was simply put them to work doing community service, not always the most pleasant of jobs. For some just the thought of that got them off their duff and finding a real job. All the state needs to do is create the right incentives.
Private Pickle
04-20-2017, 11:58 AM
Arbeit Macht Frei "Work will set you free"
https://furtherglory.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/arbeit_macht_frei.jpg
Godwin FTL.
Most Medicaid recipients are elderly, disabled or already working (more than one job for some)
But i'm sure you can find around one in ten who are able to pick up trash or something.
:rollseyes:
http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/2-10-12bud-f1.jpg
Chris
04-20-2017, 12:22 PM
Most Medicaid recipients are elderly, disabled or already working (more than one job for some)
But i'm sure you can find around one in ten who are able to pick up trash or something.
:rollseyes:
http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/2-10-12bud-f1.jpg
The elderly can't pick up trash? Don't insult.
And the disabled can't use computers?
The elderly can't pick up trash? Don't insult.
And the disabled can't use computers?
In many if not most cases - no on both ^
Common Sense
04-20-2017, 12:45 PM
Hey Granny, you want your heart medicine? Pick up that garbage and we'll think about it.
Bethere
04-20-2017, 12:48 PM
Hey Granny, you want your heart medicine? Pick up that garbage and we'll think about it.
Gosh, it's just another stellar example of America being the bestest country ever.
Hey Granny, you want your heart medicine? Pick up that garbage and we'll think about it.
Damn straight - or put her to work doing crosswalk duty on a Rascal
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.parentdish.co.uk/media/2011/12/mobilityscooter.jpg
resister
04-20-2017, 12:53 PM
Gosh, it's just another stellar example of America being the bestest country ever.Heavens forbid, able bodied people not be freeloaders in the name of tax payer burdened "compassion" ! What evil people!
Captain Obvious
04-20-2017, 12:54 PM
Damn straight - or put her to work doing crosswalk duty on a Rascal
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.parentdish.co.uk/media/2011/12/mobilityscooter.jpg
She should be tazered for operating an unlicensed, unplated non-motor vehicle on a public roadway.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:01 PM
Hey Granny, you want your heart medicine? Pick up that garbage and we'll think about it.
Might give her some pride back. Would you make a mockery of that?
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:03 PM
She should be tazered for operating an unlicensed, unplated non-motor vehicle on a public roadway.
She is violating Medicare rules. Medicare will cover 80% of cost provided she gets approval of doctor and uses it only in her home.
The meme fails in so many ways.
Might give her some pride back. Would you make a mockery of that?
Would you seriously send an 84 year old Granny to a roadside ravine with a garbage poker?
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:13 PM
Would you seriously send an 84 year old Granny to a roadside ravine with a garbage poker?
Do you seriously argue such appeals to emotion? Ah, but it makes you look good and others look positively evil.
My mother, in her 90s, works for the church doing hospice visits to peopl who can't get out. My dad, 90s, volunteers at local school to help learning disadvantaged kids with reading. You can have the "roadside ravine with a garbage poker".
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:13 PM
Sounds good, so long as the State helps them actually get a job, those are not as common as they once were even for skilled workers.
I think as was mentioned, most of the jobs would basically be a few hours here and there of community service type work. The interesting thing, though about any type of job is that it helps the worker build confidence to get another, better paying job.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:16 PM
The aim of the Maine program is not to punish cripples and invalids but to weed out the able with incentives to work.
But here comes the onslaught of liberal emotional appeals....
Do you seriously argue such appeals to emotion? Ah, but it makes you look good and others look positively evil.
My mother, in her 90s, works for the church doing hospice visits to peopl who can't get out. My dad, 90s, volunteers at local school to help learning disadvantaged kids with reading. You can have the "roadside ravine with a garbage poker".
Well GREAT for them - but most 90 year olds cannot do this sort of thing.
Must say however, that their health at such an age bodes very well for you ...
Btw - my Dad is 97 and is a backup punter for the Denver Broncos! ;-)
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:21 PM
Would you seriously send an 84 year old Granny to a roadside ravine with a garbage poker?
The OP story specifically said people who can work.
Most people want to work. It makes them feel valuable.
There are many jobs at the community and state level that simply don't get done and this could turn that around at the same time it's making these people feel more valuable.
Even a person in a wheelchair can make administrative phone calls.
I used to volunteer on the Adopt-a-Highway program but I got too grossed out by dead animals on the side of the road. Many volunteer for different community jobs, but this would ease that burden. I currently volunteer at the Food Bank every few weeks and that would be a good job for someone. They're always needing help. And, a single mother could bring her baby. I know, because one of the volunteer moms does just that.
Trash pickup, sure, but also help with community landscaping, pool maintenance, there's a whole world of opportunities.
The OP said it was not mandatory, but I have a feeling many would like to participate.
No one's talking about the elderly or the infirm here.
The OP story specifically said people who can work.
Most people want to work. It makes them feel valuable.
There are many jobs at the community and state level that simply don't get done and this could turn that around at the same time it's making these people feel more valuable.
Even a person in a wheelchair can make administrative phone calls.
I used to volunteer on the Adopt-a-Highway program but I got too grossed out by dead animals on the side of the road. Many volunteer for different community jobs, but this would ease that burden. I currently volunteer at the Food Bank every few weeks and that would be a good job for someone. They're always needing help. And, a single mother could bring her baby. I know, because one of the volunteer moms does just that.
Trash pickup, sure, but also help with community landscaping, pool maintenance, there's a whole world of opportunities.
The OP said it was not mandatory, but I have a feeling many would like to participate.
No one's talking about the elderly or the infirm here.
Fact remains FK - Around one in ten Medicaid recipients not ALREADY working might be able to do certain jobs.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/contrary-to-entitlement-society-rhetoric-over-nine-tenths-of-entitlement-benefits-go-to
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:23 PM
Do you seriously argue such appeals to emotion? Ah, but it makes you look good and others look positively evil.
My mother, in her 90s, works for the church doing hospice visits to peopl who can't get out. My dad, 90s, volunteers at local school to help learning disadvantaged kids with reading. You can have the "roadside ravine with a garbage poker".
That's a GREAT program! Kids today can benefit soooooo much from what their elders are happy to teach them. We're just getting started with a program similar to that. People are starting to realize that we can cut some of the fluff from school spending if we utilize our amazing network of volunteers.
nic34
04-20-2017, 01:25 PM
We need to reform our entire welfare system.
No, medicaid is insurance we all pay when we work(ed).
nic34
04-20-2017, 01:27 PM
The OP story specifically said people who can work.
Most people want to work. It makes them feel valuable.
There are many jobs at the community and state level that simply don't get done and this could turn that around at the same time it's making these people feel more valuable.
Even a person in a wheelchair can make administrative phone calls.
I used to volunteer on the Adopt-a-Highway program but I got too grossed out by dead animals on the side of the road. Many volunteer for different community jobs, but this would ease that burden. I currently volunteer at the Food Bank every few weeks and that would be a good job for someone. They're always needing help. And, a single mother could bring her baby. I know, because one of the volunteer moms does just that.
Trash pickup, sure, but also help with community landscaping, pool maintenance, there's a whole world of opportunities.
The OP said it was not mandatory, but I have a feeling many would like to participate.
No one's talking about the elderly or the infirm here.
So you're for the state creating jobs then?
That's a GREAT program! Kids today can benefit soooooo much from what their elders are happy to teach them. We're just getting started with a program similar to that. People are starting to realize that we can cut some of the fluff from school spending if we utilize our amazing network of volunteers.
Agree - when i retire i will definitely get into some sort of youth work assuming good health.
Common Sense
04-20-2017, 01:28 PM
Might give her some pride back. Would you make a mockery of that?
Who says she's lacking in pride?
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:28 PM
Fact remains FK - Around one in ten Medicaid recipients not ALREADY working might be able to do certain jobs.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/contrary-to-entitlement-society-rhetoric-over-nine-tenths-of-entitlement-benefits-go-to
Every little bit helps, but, as I mentioned, the physically handicapped usually want something to do. The new greeter at my local Walmart has no hands, but he's a great guy!
This would not be a REQUIREMENT. How many times must that be repeated? There would be incentives, and I think most would want to work, but some, of course, could not or would not.
And you have to remember that out of the 9/10s in your group, many are in "working households," that simply don't make enough to buy health insurance. A few extra hours here and there will not hurt them. They'd probably jump at the chance to justify the state caring for them.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:29 PM
Well GREAT for them - but most 90 year olds cannot do this sort of thing.
Must say however, that their health at such an age bodes very well for you ...
Btw - my Dad is 97 and is a backup punter for the Denver Broncos! ;-)
Your emotional appeals fail to address those on welfare who are able but unwilling to work.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:30 PM
Who says she's lacking in pride?
Taking welfare of any sort is one of the most self-defeating feelings. Many studies have been done, and in each one, the recipients voice desire to care for themselves.
This would restore some of that pride.
Why would anyone begrudge them that?
Who says she's lacking in pride?
Great question - I know several elderly and/or disabled people who paid into the system for decades, feel no qualms about receiving certain benefits and have plenty of pride.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:30 PM
Your emotional appeals fail to address those on welfare who are able but unwilling to work.
Those folks are the real problem.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:32 PM
Great question - I know several elderly and/or disabled people who paid into the system for decades, feel no qualms about receiving certain benefits and have plenty of pride.
I can understand that -- if they paid their own way -- they probably feel no guilt about getting what they paid for.
But, this isn't Medicare or SS. This is Medicaid.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:32 PM
Every little bit helps, but, as I mentioned, the physically handicapped usually want something to do. The new greeter at my local Walmart has no hands, but he's a great guy!
This would not be a REQUIREMENT. How many times must that be repeated? There would be incentives, and I think most would want to work, but some, of course, could not or would not.
And you have to remember that out of the 9/10s in your group, many are in "working households," that simply don't make enough to buy health insurance. A few extra hours here and there will not hurt them. They'd probably jump at the chance to justify the state caring for them.
One of the greatest trolls I ever know, from back over a decade ago, was a quadriplegic. Posted like he had nothing else to do, and didn't, but was willing to work from home on his computer.
Common Sense
04-20-2017, 01:33 PM
Taking welfare of any sort is one of the most self-defeating feelings. Many studies have been done, and in each one, the recipients voice desire to care for themselves.
This would restore some of that pride.
Why would anyone begrudge them that?
I wouldn't. That being said, I wouldn't make it a requisite for elderly to work to receive Medicaid.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:33 PM
Agree - when i retire i will definitely get into some sort of youth work assuming good health.
I told my husband that I don't ever want to retire. First, I can't imagine having too much time on my hands. It'd drive me nuts. I have to do things all the time. I love that we're encouraging older citizens to work with youth. The young can learn so much, and develop respect for the elderly.
Your emotional appeals fail to address those on welfare who are able but unwilling to work.
I addressed that question - there are a few, but the perception of "entitlement society" is an emotional appeal in and of itself.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/contrary-to-entitlement-society-rhetoric-over-nine-tenths-of-entitlement-benefits-go-to
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:34 PM
Who says she's lacking in pride?
Who says she doesn't want to work?
Hilarious how someone makes up an abstract example and, when countered, demands it's real somehow.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:34 PM
So you're for the state creating jobs then?
The jobs are already there -- as I explained. They just need warm bodies to fill them.
Common Sense
04-20-2017, 01:35 PM
Who says she doesn't want to work?
Hilarious how someone makes up an abstract example and, when countered, demands it's real somehow.
There are many options for elderly to volunteer in the community. If older people want to work or volunteer, I encourage it.
I can understand that -- if they paid their own way -- they probably feel no guilt about getting what they paid for.
But, this isn't Medicare or SS. This is Medicaid.
All US workers pay into Medicaid
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:36 PM
I wouldn't. That being said, I wouldn't make it a requisite for elderly to work to receive Medicaid.
Again, this program would not be a requirement. It would just be available and I'm guessing many would take advantage of it.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:36 PM
I addressed that question - there are a few, but the perception of "entitlement society" is an emotional appeal in and of itself.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/contrary-to-entitlement-society-rhetoric-over-nine-tenths-of-entitlement-benefits-go-to
You addressed an argument you're prepared to counter, not mine. As FindersKeepers pointed out you moved goalpost from Medicaid to welfare in general.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 01:38 PM
All US workers pay into Medicaid
Not exactly. All workers pay FICA, which goes to SS and Medicare, but Medicaid is funded by other state and federal funds. A low-income taxpayer will pay FICA, but if he doesn't pay Federal or State, which many don't, he won't be paying for Medicaid. And, Medicaid is not a "pay into" thing like SS, where you pay so much and then you draw so much.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:38 PM
I wouldn't. That being said, I wouldn't make it a requisite for elderly to work to receive Medicaid.
So when Bill Gates turns 65 he should get Medicaid?
Common Sense
04-20-2017, 01:53 PM
So when Bill Gates turns 65 he should get Medicaid?
Probably not, but what does that have to do with what I asked?
Probably not, but what does that have to do with what I asked?
nothing
it's what he has
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:57 PM
Probably not, but what does that have to do with what I asked?
You assumed anyone that old should receive Medicaid.
Chris
04-20-2017, 01:58 PM
nothing
it's what he has
Something to contribute, del? Oh, wait, sorry to ask.
Common Sense
04-20-2017, 01:59 PM
You assumed anyone that old should receive Medicaid.
No, I said people shouldn't have to work after retirement to receive it. Caps for income are another topic.
I'd like to see caps. Certainly there are some who use things like medicare and Medicaid who shouldn't.
Chris
04-20-2017, 02:02 PM
No, I said people shouldn't have to work after retirement to receive it. Caps for income are another topic.
I'd like to see caps. Certainly there are some who use things like medicare and Medicaid who shouldn't.
Ah, so you do qualify now your statement. That's all the concession I wanted. For that is exactly the point here. Sure, there are those who are unable to help themselves, so we, society, helps them, no problem. And there are those who are able and should help themselves. Aboilty is not defined by age or disability.
Green Arrow
04-20-2017, 03:15 PM
This is one of those ideas that sounds good on paper, but may not be so great in practice.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 03:15 PM
No, I said people shouldn't have to work after retirement to receive it. Caps for income are another topic.
I'd like to see caps. Certainly there are some who use things like medicare and Medicaid who shouldn't.
There's a difference between Medicare and Medicaid that you might not understand, not being from this country. Heck, many who've lived here their whole lives don't really understand it.
Medicare is a national health policy that the elderly buy AFTER they turn 65. I think it's 65, perhaps a bit younger if they have a disability.
But, Medicare is not a freebie like Medicaid. When a person starts drawing SS, after retirement, a portion of their SS payment is automatically taken out to pay for their Medicare. Medicare does not cover all medical expenses, however, so the person must also have private policy. My mother has Medicare and Blue Cross. She pays every month for the additional Blue Cross coverage, and I think nearly all her care is covered. Perhaps not medications, because I know she pays for those herself.
My mother is not eligible for Medicaid because she's not indigent. Only the very poor get Medicaid, and, for them, it's a freebie.
However, if my mother got to the point where she could not stay home by herself, she would have to enter a nursing home. Nursing home care is very expensive - over $200 per day, sometimes double that. The patient would have to pay for that herself.
When a patient enters a nursing facility, they have to pay for their as long as they have assets. If my mom went in -- she'd have to pay the bill until it ate up all her savings. At that point, Medicaid would start paying (not Medicare). Medicaid would also seize any assets my mother still had and liquidate those to pay for her care. It costs between $75,000 and $150,000 per year per patient for nursing home care. And, that's not counting medical care.
Once the person is destitute -- Medicaid will pay for their care.
This leads to the adult children of elderly parents trying to hide their parent's assets so they can inherit come of them. Doesn't work too well, though. Medicaid will audit the patient's financial records to see if they sold a house for less than market value in the past five years -- things like that. And then, they'll sue the family members for the money.
That's why more folks are caring for their elderly parents in their homes if they can.
FindersKeepers
04-20-2017, 03:16 PM
This is one of those ideas that sounds good on paper, but may not be so great on paper.
I like that! :laugh:
Green Arrow
04-20-2017, 03:18 PM
I like that! :laugh:
LOL, I've had a long week :tongue:
Peter1469
04-20-2017, 03:23 PM
There's a difference between Medicare and Medicaid that you might not understand, not being from this country. Heck, many who've lived here their whole lives don't really understand it.
Medicare is a national health policy that the elderly buy AFTER they turn 65. I think it's 65, perhaps a bit younger if they have a disability.
But, Medicare is not a freebie like Medicaid. When a person starts drawing SS, after retirement, a portion of their SS payment is automatically taken out to pay for their Medicare. Medicare does not cover all medical expenses, however, so the person must also have private policy. My mother has Medicare and Blue Cross. She pays every month for the additional Blue Cross coverage, and I think nearly all her care is covered. Perhaps not medications, because I know she pays for those herself.
My mother is not eligible for Medicaid because she's not indigent. Only the very poor get Medicaid, and, for them, it's a freebie.
However, if my mother got to the point where she could not stay home by herself, she would have to enter a nursing home. Nursing home care is very expensive - over $200 per day, sometimes double that. The patient would have to pay for that herself.
When a patient enters a nursing facility, they have to pay for their as long as they have assets. If my mom went in -- she'd have to pay the bill until it ate up all her savings. At that point, Medicaid would start paying (not Medicare). Medicaid would also seize any assets my mother still had and liquidate those to pay for her care. It costs between $75,000 and $150,000 per year per patient for nursing home care. And, that's not counting medical care.
Once the person is destitute -- Medicaid will pay for their care.
This leads to the adult children of elderly parents trying to hide their parent's assets so they can inherit come of them. Doesn't work too well, though. Medicaid will audit the patient's financial records to see if they sold a house for less than market value in the past five years -- things like that. And then, they'll sue the family members for the money.
That's why more folks are caring for their elderly parents in their homes if they can.
Put your money in a trust to avoid losing your assets if you get stuck in the hospital for a long period of time.
Not exactly. All workers pay FICA, which goes to SS and Medicare, but Medicaid is funded by other state and federal funds. A low-income taxpayer will pay FICA, but if he doesn't pay Federal or State, which many don't, he won't be paying for Medicaid. And, Medicaid is not a "pay into" thing like SS, where you pay so much and then you draw so much.
Fair point, however ALL consumers pay state and local sales taxes. Some of that money finances Medicaid.
Cthulhu
04-21-2017, 01:33 PM
Most Medicaid recipients are elderly, disabled or already working (more than one job for some)
But i'm sure you can find around one in ten who are able to pick up trash or something.
:rollseyes:
http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/2-10-12bud-f1.jpg
Getting old is no excuse for becoming worthless. Old people can still work.
Sent from my evil cell phone.
Cthulhu
04-21-2017, 01:35 PM
Hey Granny, you want your heart medicine? Pick up that garbage and we'll think about it.
Small price to pay. If I had a heart condition and all I had to do was pick up trash - is pick up the trash and continue living.
Sent from my evil cell phone.
Cthulhu
04-21-2017, 01:37 PM
Would you seriously send an 84 year old Granny to a roadside ravine with a garbage poker?
I can think of a few to put her to work in right now
Sent from my evil cell phone.
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