Parade Cancelled: Another Win for Left Fascism?

[FindersKeepers]

They bill themselves as "antifascists," but they're as fascist as they come.

Now, their threats have resulted in the cancellation of the Avenue of Roses Parade this Saturday.

I'm sure a lot of us here have worked on our kids' floats, so we know what kind of time and planning goes into making a parade like this a success.

Then, here come the fascists -- demanding that the parade organizers pull the Republican marchers from the list. Or else...

This is going to get worse before it gets better - and - eventually, law enforcement is going to have to call these little punks' bluffs.


“You have seen how much power we have downtown and that the police cannot stop us from shutting down roads so please consider your decision wisely,” the anonymous email said, referring to the violent riots that hit Portland after the 2016 presidential election, reported (http://www.oregonlive.com/rosefest/index.ssf/2017/04/organizers_cancel_82nd_avenue.html) the Oregonian. “This is nonnegotiable.”
The email said that 200 people would “rush into the parade” and “drag and push” those marching with the Republican Party.
“We will not give one inch to groups who espouse hatred toward LGBT, immigrants, people of color or others,” it said.
On Tuesday, the business association buckled, announcing it would cancel the parade altogether.
“Following threats of violence during the Parade by multiple groups planning to disrupt the event, 82nd Avenue of Roses Business Association can no longer guarantee the safety of our community and have made the difficult decision to cancel the Parade,” the group said in a statement (http://discover82ndave.com/immediate-release-11th-annual-82nd-avenue-roses-parade-carnival-cancelled-due-public-safety-concerns/).



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/27/portland-rose-parade-canceled-after-antifascists-threaten-gop-marchers/?utm_term=.f6e1d7a3239c

[resister]

This is a crock of shit, all the little facisist punks have to do is threaten violence and there is no longer free speech as these are democrats, do any forum members care to defend this despicable behavior that has no place in America?

[Tahuyaman]

The left now only needs to threaten violence and they can silence opposition. At some point conservatives are going to need to grow a set and ignore them.

[Cletus]

Instead of cowering before them, it is time for people to push back... hard.

[FindersKeepers]

This is a crock of shit, all the little facisist punks have to do is threaten violence and there is no longer free speech as these are democrats, do any forum members care to defend this despicable behavior that has no place in America?

It's beyond belief that this is happening, over and over, in the United States.

I'm sure the organizers cancelled because they were afraid of injury to all the little children who loves these kinds of things.

Something has to be done to stop these people.

[resister]

It's beyond belief that this is happening, over and over, in the United States.

I'm sure the organizers cancelled because they were afraid of injury to all the little children who loves these kinds of things.

Something has to be done to stop these people.
Used to be, the United States, did not negotiate with terrorist, according to the textbook definition, that is exactly what are.

[Tahuyaman]

Instead of cowering before them, it is time for people to push back... hard.


Absolutely.

[Common Sense]

I don't know anyone on the left who supports the violent tactics of the anti fascist groups or those who use the black bloc tactic. They are typically a mix bag of nuts. There are elements of anarchists, libertarians, far left socialists and punk kids. They no more represent the left than skinheads or the KKK represent the right.

[Common Sense]

Instead of cowering before them, it is time for people to push back... hard.

Isn't that their exact same rationale?

[Bethere]

They bill themselves as "antifascists," but they're as fascist as they come.

Now, their threats have resulted in the cancellation of the Avenue of Roses Parade this Saturday.

I'm sure a lot of us here have worked on our kids' floats, so we know what kind of time and planning goes into making a parade like this a success.

Then, here come the fascists -- demanding that the parade organizers pull the Republican marchers from the list. Or else...

This is going to get worse before it gets better - and - eventually, law enforcement is going to have to call these little punks' bluffs.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/27/portland-rose-parade-canceled-after-antifascists-threaten-gop-marchers/?utm_term=.f6e1d7a3239c

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.

Home schooled?

[resister]

I don't know anyone on the left who supports the violent tactics of the anti fascist groups or those who use the black bloc tactic. They are typically a mix bag of nuts. There are elements of anarchists, libertarians, far left socialists and punk kids. They no more represent the left than skinheads or the KKK represent the right.
not what they say.

[jimmyz]

Do not fret. The Trump effect is just the start of our push-back. Thank you Common Sense for your reasoned post.

[Peter1469]

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.

Home schooled?
Incorrect. Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing - the US has both a left and right wing, but the right wing side died out.

[Common Sense]

not what they say.
Link?

[Common Sense]

Incorrect. Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing - the US has both a left and right wing, but the right wing side died out.
That's not correct. Mussolini and Hitler were both right wing with elements of left wing. The Third Way.

[Safety]

Isn't that their exact same rationale?

Over the past eight years, the hard right have been blowing up forums and alt-right blogs about them getting ready to take back their country. Every day someone was saying how they were planning on heading to Washington to refresh the tree of liberty, now they are acting like they are neutered?

[DGUtley]

Regardless of whether it's right or left, it's dangerous and bad - bigly. It's the most offensive of speech that is the most deserving or protection. That has been the hallmark of our constitution -- the right of free speech.

[FindersKeepers]

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.

Home schooled?

How wrong you are.

Public schooled?

[resister]

Link?
Gee, I don't know, they protest republicans. Ever read their signs? Ever here them spewing left talking points when interviewed?
Link enough for you?

[Common Sense]

How wrong you are.

Public schooled?

Fascism isn't a left wing phenomenon.

As to my education, it's a mix of public and private schools.

fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun


an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.


synonyms:
authoritarianism (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+authoritarianism&forcedict=authoritarianism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoIKjAA), totalitarianism (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+totalitarianism&forcedict=totalitarianism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoIKzAA), dictatorship (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+dictatorship&forcedict=dictatorship&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoILDAA), despotism (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+despotism&forcedict=despotism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoILTAA), autocracy (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+autocracy&forcedict=autocracy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoILjAA); More[/URL] (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+Nazism&forcedict=Nazism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoIMDAA)
(https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+nationalism&forcedict=nationalism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoIMjAA) (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+racism&forcedict=racism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoINDAA)
[URL="https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+isolationism&forcedict=isolationism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoINzAA"] (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+jingoism&forcedict=jingoism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoINjAA)











(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

[Common Sense]

Gee, I don't know, they protest republicans. Ever read their signs? Ever here them spewing left talking points when interviewed?
Link enough for you?

No. Just because they protest Republicans doesn't mean they are Democrats. The world isn't black and white like that.

So no, it's not enough. Show me some actual evidence.


I guess these people are Republicans because they protested the DNC?

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2016/07/25/103814600-GettyImages-579686064.530x298.jpg?v=1469462420

[resister]

Gee, I don't know, they protest republicans. Ever read their signs? Ever here them spewing left talking points when interviewed?
Link enough for you?Or you could read the article in the op.

[Bethere]

How wrong you are.

Public schooled?

Fascism is an economics term. I don't expect you or Pete to understand. Nor am I interested in arguing it with you once again. I just made my point, and I will move on.

[FindersKeepers]

Over the past eight years, the hard right have been blowing up forums and alt-right blogs about them getting ready to take back their country. Every day someone was saying how they were planning on heading to Washington to refresh the tree of liberty, now they are acting like they are neutered?

And now, it appears, there's beginning to be something that might actually require "taking back."

When a community cannot even enjoy a parade they've worked on and look forward to -- because leftist fascists are making threats to enter the crowd and "drag" people, should parade organizers not comply with their childish demands, we've got a problem.

Coming on the heels of the cancellation of both the Coulter and Milo speaking events, also due to a threat of violence, it becomes clear that these leftist are participating in terrorist practices. That's exactly what terrorism is designed to do -- make decent people change their plans and activities out of fear.

But, your post draws a false parallel. You claim they are "neutered" and yet, it's highly unlikely the parade organizers took part in the boasting activities of the past that you speak of. It was the organizers that cancelled the event in the face of the leftist terrorists.

Law enforcement is going to have to get tough on them -- and soon -- or this is going to escalate further than it already has.

Certainly, you do not agree that a couple little groups of fascists should be allowed to shut down an event that the whole community, especially the children, was looking forward to?

[FindersKeepers]

Fascism is an economics term. I don't expect you or Pete to understand. Nor am I interested in arguing it with you once again. I just made my point, and I will move on.

Good idea!

Move on.

You're in over your head on this one.

Again.

[Common Sense]

And now, it appears, there's beginning to be something that might actually require "taking back."

When a community cannot even enjoy a parade they've worked on and look forward to -- because leftist fascists are making threats to enter the crowd and "drag" people, should parade organizers not comply with their childish demands, we've got a problem.

Coming on the heels of the cancellation of both the Coulter and Milo speaking events, also due to a threat of violence, it becomes clear that these leftist are participating in terrorist practices. That's exactly what terrorism is designed to do -- make decent people change their plans and activities out of fear.

But, your post draws a false parallel. You claim they are "neutered" and yet, it's highly unlikely the parade organizers took part in the boasting activities of the past that you speak of. It was the organizers that cancelled the event in the face of the leftist terrorists.

Law enforcement is going to have to get tough on them -- and soon -- or this is going to escalate further than it already has.

Certainly, you do not agree that a couple little groups of fascists should be allowed to shut down an event that the whole community, especially the children, was looking forward to?
Fascists aren't leftists no matter how many times it's repeated.

[resister]

No. Just because they protest Republicans doesn't mean they are Democrats. The world isn't black and white like that.

So no, it's not enough. Show me some actual evidence.


I guess these people are Republicans because they protested the DNC?

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2016/07/25/103814600-GettyImages-579686064.530x298.jpg?v=1469462420
When you show me a link I asked you for in another thread, then talk about links.

[Common Sense]

When you show me a link I asked you for in another thread, then talk about links.

Lame...

[FindersKeepers]

No. Just because they protest Republicans doesn't mean they are Democrats. The world isn't black and white like that.

So no, it's not enough. Show me some actual evidence.


I guess these people are Republicans because they protested the DNC?

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2016/07/25/103814600-GettyImages-579686064.530x298.jpg?v=1469462420

Whether they are democrats or not -- they're fascists.

In a number of recent events where leftist protester made trouble and threatened injury it was found very few of them were even registered to vote.

Party affiliation means less than association with the fascist fringe of the Left.

[resister]

Lame...
Did you read about the student group in the OP?

As for lame, I agree. When you wont post a link I asked for, then you expect to post one for you? I agree, very very lame.

[Bethere]

Good idea!

Move on.

You're in over your head on this one.

Again.

18006

[Common]

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.

Home schooled?

Play on words Moron and idiots and lamers is more appropriate so we agree cant be both but they can be all 3

[Common]

I hope the left doesnt stop these disruptions and attacks on everyone because EVERYONE is seeing it for what it is.

[decedent]

But they're just snowflakes. Why fear them?

[del]

But they're just snowflakes. Why fear them?
exactly

just show them a pic of anne coulter and they'll run right back to their safe space.

[Common Sense]

I hope the left doesnt stop these disruptions and attacks on everyone because EVERYONE is seeing it for what it is.

That's as silly as saying I hope the right doesn't stop skinheads and white supremacists because EVERYONE is seeing it for what it is.

[FindersKeepers]

Fascists aren't leftists no matter how many times it's repeated.

I take it you haven't read Goldberg's, "Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, from Mussolini to the Politics of Change."

I don't care for the title too well, because it wrongly suggests that all liberals are that way, but Goldberg very adeptly draws undeniable parallels from leftism in the 20th Century to the rise of some of the worst fascism the world has ever seen.

I doubt you'll read it -- but I suggest you do so.

Because, we're seeing it rise at grassroots level this time. It's hateful. It's dangerous. It runs counter to everything Freedom of Speech stands for, and it's growing.

[FindersKeepers]

But they're just snowflakes. Why fear them?

Snowflakes = fascists, they're both cut from the same cloth.

But, you're right -- why fear them?

Instead, let's put them down.

[FindersKeepers]

18006

Cute pic.

But wait, didn't you say you were off the thread now?

[resister]

I hope the left doesnt stop these disruptions and attacks on everyone because EVERYONE is seeing it for what it is.But someone in this very thread denies they are on the left, must be Jill Stein supporters?:wink:

[Common Sense]

I take it you haven't read Goldberg's, "Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, from Mussolini to the Politics of Change."

I don't care for the title too well, because it wrongly suggests that all liberals are that way, but Goldberg very adeptly draws undeniable parallels from leftism in the 20th Century to the rise of some of the worst fascism the world has ever seen.

I doubt you'll read it -- but I suggest you do so.

Because, we're seeing it rise at grassroots level this time. It's hateful. It's dangerous. It runs counter to everything Freedom of Speech stands for, and it's growing.

What these idiots are doing has nothing to do with fascism. How can you call kids who criticize corporatism and militarism fascists? It would seem to me that someone who claims thes eidiot protestors are fascists (ironically they are anti fascists), doesn't know what the term fascism means.

[FindersKeepers]

Incorrect. Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing - the US has both a left and right wing, but the right wing side died out.

Yes, that's very true.

[FindersKeepers]

What these idiots are doing has nothing to do with fascism. How can you call kids who criticize corporatism and militarism fascists? It would seem to me that someone who claims thes eidiot protestors are fascists (ironically they are anti fascists), doesn't know what the term fascism means.

You do realize that's the same way Castro got his start, don't you?

And, then he became a dictator that shot his own citizens as they tried to flee Cuba's borders and his heavy-handed rule.


How many budding Castros or little Che-wannabes are lurking behind these black masks?

[Common]

But they're just snowflakes. Why fear them?
Fear lol, yeah they make me shake in my boots, I never worked riots or mass protests. I want them to continue, i want them to get more overbearing more demanding and more disruptive. Im afraid they will stop and not continue

[Mister D]

What these idiots are doing has nothing to do with fascism. How can you call kids who criticize corporatism and militarism fascists? It would seem to me that someone who claims thes eidiot protestors are fascists (ironically they are anti fascists), doesn't know what the term fascism means.
You don't understand what corporatism means.

[Mister D]

Anyway, it's funny how all of a sudden progressives want to be a little more specific in assigning the label "fascist". And wouldn't you know it's over some left wing kook protestres. My my...lol

[Bethere]

You don't understand what corporatism means.

Lol. Finders forgot her talking points.

[Mister D]

Lol. Finders forgot her talking points.

Oh, that's right. You don't either. lol

[Peter1469]

That's not correct. Mussolini and Hitler were both right wing with elements of left wing. The Third Way.

The communists called them right wing....

Yes, fascism is to the right of communism. Your point?

[Peter1469]

Fascism isn't a left wing phenomenon.

As to my education, it's a mix of public and private schools.

fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun


an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.


synonyms:
authoritarianism (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+authoritarianism&forcedict=authoritarianism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoIKjAA), totalitarianism (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+totalitarianism&forcedict=totalitarianism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoIKzAA), dictatorship (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+dictatorship&forcedict=dictatorship&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoILDAA), despotism (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+despotism&forcedict=despotism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoILTAA), autocracy (https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+autocracy&forcedict=autocracy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUwMi1qcXTAhVB7IMKHdVWBagQ_SoILjAA); More










(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.





And those are left wing.

When the fascist preach liberty and less government let us know.

[Peter1469]

Fascism is an economics term. I don't expect you or Pete to understand. Nor am I interested in arguing it with you once again. I just made my point, and I will move on.

no it is not

lol

[MisterVeritis]

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.
Home schooled?
Liberal fascism is standard fascism. You can blame your public school education for confusing you. Fascists have always been leftists. So were your professors.

[MisterVeritis]

That's not correct. Mussolini and Hitler were both right wing with elements of left wing. The Third Way.
Both were left wing. Socialists. Your team.

[MisterVeritis]

Over the past eight years, the hard right have been blowing up forums and alt-right blogs about them getting ready to take back their country. Every day someone was saying how they were planning on heading to Washington to refresh the tree of liberty, now they are acting like they are neutered?
When it is clear the law has become lawless we will act in ways that displease you.

[MisterVeritis]

Fascists aren't leftists no matter how many times it's repeated.
Of course, they are. They always have been.

[Safety]

When it is clear the law has become lawless we will act in ways that displease you.

Sure thing, Chief.

[MisterVeritis]

Sure thing, Chief.
You will know it has begun long after it begins. Such is the way of all rebellions.

[exotix]

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.

Home schooled?LOL



http://res.cloudinary.com/luvckye9s/image/upload/v1485972657/beck_nazi_a_ggzt2i.png

[Bethere]

LOL



http://res.cloudinary.com/luvckye9s/image/upload/v1485972657/beck_nazi_a_ggzt2i.png

Post more often.

[Tahuyaman]

Fascism is an economics term. I don't expect you or Pete to understand. Nor am I interested in arguing it with you once again. I just made my point, and I will move on.


no it is not

lol

Could you you explain to me how anyone can come up with something like that? What's the thought process there?

[Tahuyaman]

It's impossible to be both left wing and a fascist.

Home schooled?

That might be one of the most ignorant comments ever listed here. That's a stunning display of ignorance.

[Bethere]

no it is not

lol

Is, too!

[Common Sense]

Up is down. Black is white. Fascism is left wing.

Post fact America.

[Tahuyaman]

Wow....

[Bethere]

That might be one of the most ignorant comments ever listed here. That's a stunning display of ignorance.

Fascism and communism are diametrically opposed. It's a Hegelian dialectical thing. You wouldn't understand.

[Safety]

Up is down. Black is white. Fascism is left wing.

Post fact America.

Hitler really f'ked up their attempt to rewrite history.

[Common Sense]

Elements of fascism include militarism, nationalism and corporatism. Can anyone tell me how the left or these protesting idiots fit into that description?

[Tahuyaman]

Liberals are over the edge. They can't be saved.

[Common Sense]

liberals are over the edge. They can't be saved.

lol...

[Chris]

I don't know anyone on the left who supports the violent tactics of the anti fascist groups or those who use the black bloc tactic. They are typically a mix bag of nuts. There are elements of anarchists, libertarians, far left socialists and punk kids. They no more represent the left than skinheads or the KKK represent the right.

No, these are all on the left. The liberal media tries to paint them with other labels in their tacit support.

[Bethere]

lol...

It's amazing that we are having this conversation on a forum dedicated to political science.

[Common Sense]

No, these are all on the left. The liberal media tries to paint them with other labels in their tacit support.

LOL...sure they do. Must be that lamestream media, globalists and the deep state brainwashing us with chem trails.

[Chris]

Elements of fascism include militarism, nationalism and corporatism. Can anyone tell me how the left or these protesting idiots fit into that description?

True, historically, but word meanings change over time. Consider liberal, not relation to the original classical meaning. Bad is good.

[Chris]

LOL...sure they do. Must be that lamestream media, globalists and the deep state brainwashing us with chem trails.

Your prose is getting flamboyant if not inflammatory.

[Common Sense]

It's amazing that we are having this conversation on a forum dedicated to political science.

It reminds me of the Louis CK bit where his daughter tries to tell him the cookies are called "Pig Newtons" and not Fig Newtons.

[Chris]

It's amazing that we are having this conversation on a forum dedicated to political science.

What's more surpising is some want to brush it aside.

[Common Sense]

Your prose is getting flamboyant if not inflammatory.

Sorry, I was trying to respond to absurdity with equal absurdity.

[Chris]

Fascism and communism are diametrically opposed. It's a Hegelian dialectical thing. You wouldn't understand.

OK, why don't you explain this Hegelian dialect. Example it with fascism and communism. This ought to be entertaining.

[Chris]

Sorry, I was trying to respond to absurdity with equal absurdity.

You would have to argue the absurdity, to begin with. Not assume it and then mock what you assume.

[Common Sense]

You would have to argue the absurdity, to begin with. Not assume it and then mock what you assume.



I don't have to justify my perception to you. I found your comment silly so I responded in kind.

[Tahuyaman]

Liberals are over the edge. They can't be saved.


lol...


I think it's sad.

[Common Sense]

I think it's sad.

I think that willfully ignoring reality and labeling the far left as fascist is sad and displays a high level of ignorance.

[Chris]

I don't have to justify my perception to you. I found your comment silly so I responded in kind.

And to think this is a forum for discussion.

[decedent]

exactly

just show them a pic of anne coulter and they'll run right back to their safe space.
http://mattralston.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Coulter-.png


Snowflakes = fascists, they're both cut from the same cloth.

But, you're right -- why fear them?

Instead, let's put them down.

If snowflakes are weak then you don't have to do anything. Unless, of course, this whole "snowflake" thing comes from a bunch of internet tough guys who are projecting.

[Common Sense]

And to think this is a forum for discussion.

It was snark.

Again, I found your comment silly. If you think I've broken some rule, please do let me know. Or let it go.

[Chris]

It was snark.

Again, I found your comment silly. If you think I've broken some rule, please do let me know. Or let it go.

Refusing to discuss a topic on a forum for discussion is odd to say the least.

One would expect: My opinion is ___. Oh, why? Well, because ____.

Not: My opinion is ___. Oh, why? I don't have to tell you.


At least that's just silly and not violent like some in the left are becoming per the OP.

[MisterVeritis]

Up is down. Black is white. Fascism is left wing.

Post fact America.
In your top line, the last sentence is true. One out of three is not bad for a leftist. Someone give CS a participation ribbon.

[MisterVeritis]

Fascism and communism are diametrically opposed. It's a Hegelian dialectical thing. You wouldn't understand.
In the real world, they are kissing cousins.

[MisterVeritis]

Hitler really f'ked up their attempt to rewrite history.
Hitler? You misidentified leftist professors.

They were terribly embarrassed that whole world war two, killing the Jews (and many others) thing. Until that unfortunate series of events, Hitler and Mussolini were the cat's pajamas with the American left.

[MisterVeritis]

Elements of fascism include militarism, nationalism and corporatism. Can anyone tell me how the left or these protesting idiots fit into that description?
You are going to have to work that out for yourself.

[Common Sense]

Refusing to discuss a topic on a forum for discussion is odd to say the least.

One would expect: My opinion is ___. Oh, why? Well, because ____.

Not: My opinion is ___. Oh, why? I don't have to tell you.


At least that's just silly and not violent like some in the left are becoming per the OP.

Ideally, yes...that's how it goes. But sometimes people make up facts and refuse to acknowledge reality. At that point the dialogue is stifled.

I found your comment silly because it plays into the same tired cliche that the media is in the tank for the left and far left.

I know that these idiots protesting aren't liberals. I've talked to these very same type of people. They are anti capitalist anarchists. Typically they are young and idealistic. They certainly aren't Democrats. They are a fringe group that could be classified as left if the determination was necessary. Just as the KKK and white supremacists could be classified as right wing.

Unfortunately what's being done by some media outlets and posters, is to take the actions of a fringe group not related to mainstream progressives and trying to make them guilty by association. I find it disingenuous and or ignorant.

[Common Sense]

You are going to have to work that out for yourself.
Why not try to answer the question? Are those not elements of fascism? Do the protestors fit that description?

[Safety]

It was snark.

Again, I found your comment silly. If you think I've broken some rule, please do let me know. Or let it go.

Evidently you're not allowed to use snark.

[Safety]

Hitler? You misidentified leftist professors.

They were terribly embarrassed that whole world war two, killing the Jews (and many others) thing. Until that unfortunate series of events, Hitler and Mussolini were the cat's pajamas with the American left.

Cool story, bro.

[Bob the Slob]

"left" "fascism". How do you get those two to meet in the political spectrum?

[Common Sense]

Evidently you're not allowed to use snark.

I wonder if hell have the same criticism of the last few responses to me by Mr. V....

[Bob the Slob]

Hitler? You misidentified leftist professors.

They were terribly embarrassed that whole world war two, killing the Jews (and many others) thing. Until that unfortunate series of events, Hitler and Mussolini were the cat's pajamas with the American left.
No, Actually, granddaddy Bush was the one who helped Hitler, along with the banker Harriman.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/oct/17/20031017-110534-8149r/

[Common Sense]

"left" "fascism". How do you get those two to meet in the political spectrum?

Circular reasoning. But you also end up getting Right Wing Commies so it gets sort of confusing.

[Safety]

I wonder if hell have the same criticism of the last few responses to me by Mr. V....

Stop wondering, I learned a while ago which direction the river of bias flows.

[Safety]

"left" "fascism". How do you get those two to meet in the political spectrum?


Circular reasoning. But you also end up getting Right Wing Commies so it gets sort of confusing.

This is how it goes, if it is negative towards them, the term no longer follows the rules of English

[Mister D]

Elements of fascism include militarism, nationalism and corporatism. Can anyone tell me how the left or these protesting idiots fit into that description?
Actually, most communist regimes embraced both nationalism and militarism. The USSR, China and North Vietnam come immediately to mind.

[Bethere]

And to think this is a forum for discussion.

And this thread is about parades and free speech.

[Mister D]

True, historically, but word meanings change over time. Consider liberal, not relation to the original classical meaning. Bad is good.
No, that's not at all true historically. If it's true at all it's true theoretically.

[Common Sense]

Actually, most communist regimes embraced both nationalism and militarism. The USSR, China and North Vietnam come immediately to mind.
How about corporatism?

Not to mention communism is not necessarily nationalistic, but rather stands for a stateless society. At least in theory.

[Mister D]

How about corporatism?

Not to mention communism is not necessarily nationalistic, but rather stands for a stateless society. At least in theory.
You don't understand what corporatism means.

Communism has been nationalist and militarist historically. A lot more often than not.

[Bethere]

Actually, most communist regimes embraced both nationalism and militarism. The USSR, China and North Vietnam come immediately to mind.

Fascism and communism are economics terms. Any system can become nationalist, or militaristic, or have large bureaucracies. Those measures, and others like them, have nothing to do with the underpinnings of the terms fascist and communist.

[Bethere]

How about corporatism?

Not to mention communism is not necessarily nationalistic, but rather stands for a stateless society. At least in theory.

Classless, not stateless.

[Casper]

They bill themselves as "antifascists," but they're as fascist as they come.

Now, their threats have resulted in the cancellation of the Avenue of Roses Parade this Saturday.

I'm sure a lot of us here have worked on our kids' floats, so we know what kind of time and planning goes into making a parade like this a success.

Then, here come the fascists -- demanding that the parade organizers pull the Republican marchers from the list. Or else...

This is going to get worse before it gets better - and - eventually, law enforcement is going to have to call these little punks' bluffs.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/27/portland-rose-parade-canceled-after-antifascists-threaten-gop-marchers/?utm_term=.f6e1d7a3239c
Sorry to hear that, extremists of any type are not to be tolerated. I would have run the parade anyway and had Lots of security waiting for the stupids.

[Mister D]

Classless, not stateless.
For once Common Sense is right. Teh state is supposed to wither away under communism.

[Common Sense]

Classless, not stateless.

Both actually. Eventually.

[Cletus]

Isn't that their exact same rationale?

Not even close.

I recognize their right to dissent. I recognize their right to speak out for their beliefs and against those they find offensive. I do not recognize any imaginary right to prevent others from doing the same.

Their use of violence crosses the line and history has shown us that the only real way to stop the violence of fanatics is to make it too painful for them to continue their own actions. If the nation has the will, in this case it can be done through vigorous law enforcement, including in the courts, but ultimately, it falls on the citizenry to put a stop to it.

The way it is done is up to those who have chosen violence as their means to an end.

One of the things I always tell people in use of force classes is that you, as the defender, don't decide how much force to use to subdue your opponent. HE decides how much pain you you are going to inflict on him before he ends his aggression. It is up to them.

[Safety]

And this thread is about parades and free speech.

Now, that is an interesting point. But I'd imagine the reply will be about tPF not being a government actor.

[Common Sense]

Not even close.

I recognize their right to dissent. I recognize their right to speak out for their beliefs and against those they find offensive. I do not recognize any imaginary right to prevent others from doing the same.

Their use of violence crosses the line and history has shown us that the only real way to stop the violence of fanatics is to make it too painful for them to continue their own actions. If the nation has the will, in this case it can be done through vigorous law enforcement, including in the courts, but ultimately, it falls on the citizenry to put a stop to it.

The way it is done is up to those who have chosen violence as their means to an end.

One of the things I always tell people in use of force classes is that you, as the defender, don't decide how much force to use to subdue your opponent. HE decides how much pain you you are going to inflict on him before he ends his aggression. It is up to them.

Sorry, but it is the same, just a different rationalization.

[Peter1469]

I think that willfully ignoring reality and labeling the far left as fascist is sad and displays a high level of ignorance.


More accurately, fascism is on the far left. The far left has all sorts of totalitarians to keep them company.

[Common Sense]

More accurately, fascism is on the far left. The far left has all sorts of totalitarians to keep them company.

So far left that it's right.

There are totalitarians on both sides of the spectrum. On the left it's communists. On the right it's fascists. You can claim otherwise, but it's still true.

[Chris]

And this thread is about parades and free speech.

And the left shutting it down with intolerance.

[Cletus]

Sorry, but it is the same, just a different rationalization.

You are completely wrong.

You fail to differentiate between aggression and self defense. Have someone explain the difference to and get back to me.

[Peter1469]

So far left that it's right.

There are totalitarians on both sides of the spectrum. On the left it's communists. On the right it's fascists. You can claim otherwise, but it's still true.
We have been through this many times. There are numerous political models.



You might like this one- take my L-R line and make it a circle. Then you see something interesting.

[Common Sense]

You are completely wrong.

You fail to differentiate between aggression and self defense. Have someone explain the difference to and get back to me.
While I wouldn't agree with them, or you for that matter, on so the called rationalization of self defense, they too probably see it as self defense.

[MisterVeritis]

Why not try to answer the question? Are those not elements of fascism? Do the protestors fit that description?
If you were someone on my side of the argument I might expend the time it takes to correct your errors. But you are not. No argument I make would be accepted. You will not change your mind.

[Common Sense]

We have been through this many times. There are numerous political models.



You might like this one- take my L-R line and make it a circle. Then you see something interesting.

I know we'll never agree on this issue, but the classic left right paradigm has commies on the left and fascists on the right.

[Chris]

It's funny that liberals now argue historical meaning for fascism when normally they use it like this urbandictionary.com definition:

fascism
Anything leftists disagree with.
I disagree with Donald Trump, therefore he must be a fascist and literally Hitler. The Republican Party must want fascism.

[MisterVeritis]

Hitler? You misidentified leftist professors.

They were terribly embarrassed that whole world war two, killing the Jews (and many others) thing. Until that unfortunate series of events, Hitler and Mussolini were the cat's pajamas with the American left.

Cool story, bro.
Thanks! I do try to keep the Left informed.

[MisterVeritis]

"left" "fascism". How do you get those two to meet in the political spectrum?
Fascism was intentionally misidentified by leftist professors after that WWII unpleasantness.

[Common Sense]

If you were someone on my side of the argument I might expend the time it takes to correct your errors. But you are not. No argument I make would be accepted. You will not change your mind.
I'll listen. Can you show me how the protestors are linked to the elements of fascism that I listed? It's a simple question.

But you may be right. You certainly aren't going to change your mind and in all likelihood I wont either.

[MisterVeritis]

No, Actually, granddaddy Bush was the one who helped Hitler, along with the banker Harriman.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/oct/17/20031017-110534-8149r/
Nonsense. Of course.

Have you considered Patrick Kennedy's role?

[Bethere]

And the left shutting it down with intolerance.

Exactly, that was the op's vision. What it's not about is the definitions of fascism v communism.

[MisterVeritis]

Stop wondering, I learned a while ago which direction the river of bias flows.
This makes me smile. It is mildly ironic.

[MisterVeritis]

This is how it goes, if it is negative towards them, the term no longer follows the rules of English
What English rule are you drawing upon?

Fascism is about dominance and control. It is about using the power of government. That tool belongs to your team, not mine.

[Common Sense]

Fascism was intentionally misidentified by leftist professors after that WWII unpleasantness.
So it's some grand conspiracy? I guess they all got together to decide this in secret?

[Bethere]

Hitler? You misidentified leftist professors.

They were terribly embarrassed that whole world war two, killing the Jews (and many others) thing. Until that unfortunate series of events, Hitler and Mussolini were the cat's pajamas with the American left.

Thanks! I do try to keep the Left informed.

Yeah, Lindbergh was a Democrat no doubt. Lol.

Never stop posting. To be a diverse forum we need a couple of posters like you.

[MisterVeritis]

I'll listen. Can you show me how the protestors are linked to the elements of fascism that I listed? It's a simple question.

But you may be right. You certainly aren't going to change your mind and in all likelihood I wont either.
LOL. If you are interested you can look up any of the previous discussions we have had on this subject.

[Common Sense]

LOL. If you are interested you can look up any of the previous discussions we have had on this subject.

There were previous discussions about these protestors and their fascist attributes?

[MisterVeritis]

Sorry to hear that, extremists of any type are not to be tolerated. I would have run the parade anyway and had Lots of security waiting for the stupids.
The President can federalize the State's National Guard and crush the fascist rebellion.

[MisterVeritis]

For once Common Sense is right. The state is supposed to wither away under communism.
In theory. Magically that has yet to happen in real life.

[Bethere]

Fascism was intentionally misidentified by leftist professors after that WWII unpleasantness.
Good times!​tm

[Chris]

Exactly, that was the op's vision. What it's not about is the definitions of fascism v communism.

Then tell the snarky guy who keeps trying to deflect discussion to historical terms. Facsist is just a pejorative just like Nazi, as in the following...

https://i.snag.gy/xOpZeF.jpg?nocache=1493251956615

[MisterVeritis]

So far left that it's right.

There are totalitarians on both sides of the spectrum. On the left it's communists. On the right it's fascists. You can claim otherwise, but it's still true.
Communists want the state to own businesses. Fascists want to control businesses through government regulation. The end is the same, dominance and control. The tactics are different. And both are leftist.

[MisterVeritis]

I know we'll never agree on this issue, but the classic left right paradigm has commies on the left and fascists on the right.
Who came up with that model? When did it become popular?

[MisterVeritis]

So it's some grand conspiracy? I guess they all got together to decide this in secret?
Imagine any group of leftists. Any group at all. Do they not all think alike?

Why do you believe it is secret?

[Common Sense]

The President can federalize the State's National Guard and crush the fascist rebellion.
There's a fascist rebellion? Where?

[MisterVeritis]

Yeah, Lindbergh was a Democrat no doubt. Lol.

Never stop posting. To be a diverse forum we need a couple of posters like you.
There was a time, briefly, when I took you seriously.

[Bethere]

Then tell the snarky guy who keeps trying to deflect discussion to historical terms. Facsist is just a pejorative just like Nazi, as in the following...

https://i.snag.gy/xOpZeF.jpg?nocache=1493251956615

Nazi and fascist may be pejorative terms but they have rock solid definitions.

Either I'm right that this highjacked thread is about free speech and parades, or you are right and it was a fishing expedition in search of yet another fruitless debate about the definitions of communism and fascism.

So what was this? Trolling or thread jacking?

[MisterVeritis]

There were previous discussions about these protestors and their fascist attributes?
You reverted to the usual CS. Thanks for playing.

[Bethere]

There was a time, briefly, when I took you seriously.

Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end.

[MisterVeritis]

There's a fascist rebellion? Where?
Resist! Comrade.

[Common Sense]

You reverted to the usual CS. Thanks for playing.
Well you seemed to have dodged the question quite well.

I asked a simple question. All I got was evasion and sophism.

[Common Sense]

Resist! Comrade.

Wait, are they fascists or communists?

[Chris]

And the left shutting it down with intolerance.


Exactly, that was the op's vision. What it's not about is the definitions of fascism v communism.


Then tell the snarky guy who keeps trying to deflect discussion to historical terms. Facsist is just a pejorative just like Nazi, as in the following...

https://i.snag.gy/xOpZeF.jpg?nocache=1493251956615


Nazi and fascist may be pejorative terms but they have rock solid definitions.

Either I'm right that this highjacked thread is about free speech and parades, or you are right and it was a fishing expedition in search of yet another fruitless debate about the definitions of communism and fascism.

So what was this? Trolling or thread jacking?

You tell me. We just agreed the topic was "the left shutting it down with intolerance" and "not about is the definitions of fascism v communism" and yet there you go back to defining terms historically.

---

General comment here: I truly believe literacy is in decline. People no longer understand, for example, what an analogy is. They hear comparison of MLK tactics with Trump tactics and go off on how MLK and Trump are different people. Here are events where the offended left wants to shut down the offensive right, and the analogy is with Fascist intolerance, but people go off on how fascism and the left are different. Analogy compares one point of similarity, not point for point every aspect. It's just amazing people have come so close to illiteracy. Public schools. Twitter. Who knows. It's pathetic.

[MisterVeritis]

Well you seemed to have dodged the question quite well.

I asked a simple question. All I got was evasion and sophism.
I told you where to look.

[MisterVeritis]

Wait, are they fascists or communists?
LOL. The answer you seek is yes (or both).

[Mister D]

Fascism and communism are economics terms. Any system can become nationalist, or militaristic, or have large bureaucracies. Those measures, and others like them, have nothing to do with the underpinnings of the terms fascist and communist.
No, they are not. They certainly have an economic dimension but they are not, strictly speaking, economic terms. Communism differs from fascism primarily in theory and in terms of its intellectual history.

[Common Sense]

I told you where to look.
Not really.

[Mister D]

And for the love of God...corporatism does not mean rule by Goldman Sachs and Exxon.

[MisterVeritis]

Not really.
Yeah. Have one of the mods help you with the search function.

[Peter1469]

I know we'll never agree on this issue, but the classic left right paradigm has commies on the left and fascists on the right.


The classic l-r paradigm comes from the French court in the 1700s.

[Peter1469]

Fascism was intentionally misidentified by leftist professors after that WWII unpleasantness.

And by the communists before that.

[rcfieldz]

Maybe this will stir up some RWNJ to go shooting up the place?

[Chris]

And for the love of God...corporatism does not mean rule by Goldman Sachs and Exxon.

Lol

[MisterVeritis]

Maybe this will stir up some RWNJ to go shooting up the place?
I will predict that left wing judges, mayors, and sheriffs will be killed. If the perps are smart it will look like an ordinary street crime.

[Bethere]

Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-S6md3LNgs

[MisterVeritis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-S6md3LNgs
They are poorly dressed. Good music though.

[Bethere]

They are poorly dressed. Good music though.

It was California, 1969. We have all been here before.

[del]

Nonsense. Of course.

Have you considered Patrick Kennedy's role?
there are/were three patrick kennedys

two of them died before 1930 and one was born in 1967.

nonsense, indeed.

[FindersKeepers]

If snowflakes are weak then you don't have to do anything. Unless, of course, this whole "snowflake" thing comes from a bunch of internet tough guys who are projecting.

As I understand the term, "snowflakes" are emotionally weak. Like children told they can't have any more cookies, the snowflakes lash out, knee-jerk reactions. Just as a toddler throws a tantrum, so a snowflake throws a hissy fit, and sadly, those fits increasingly include violence.

A toddler can be given a swat on his rear end and sent to Time Out.

It's going to take a little more than Time Out to stop these adult toddlers who are out of control.

[del]

The classic l-r paradigm comes from the French court in the 1700s.

the estates-general =/= french court

[rcfieldz]

It was California, 1969. We have all been here before.
I lived there then.

[Mister D]

Lol
This is a good example of why ignorant usage can be a problem especially when it is allowed to go unchallenged. As you know, a host of forum denizens refer to the phenomenon of entities like Exxon holding political power as "corporatism". They then take this new definition of corporatism and apply it to the past. How many times has an earnest progressive quoted Mussolini on this forum alone without having the faintest idea of what Mussolini actually meant by the term "corporatism"? Yes, the meanings of words may change but not the intent of those who used them in the past.

[Chris]

This is a good example of why ignorant usage can be a problem especially when it is allowed to go unchallenged. As you know, a host of forum denizens refer to the phenomenon of entities like Exxon holding political power as "corporatism". They then take this new definition of corporatism and apply it to the past. How many times has an earnest progressive quoted Mussolini on this forum alone without having the faintest idea of what Mussolini actually meant by the term "corporatism"? Yes, the meanings of words may change but not the intent of those who used them in the past.

A lot can be ignorance of history. History and literacy are in decline.

[Chris]

As I understand the term, "snowflakes" are emotionally weak. Like children told they can't have any more cookies, the snowflakes lash out, knee-jerk reactions. Just as a toddler throws a tantrum, so a snowflake throws a hissy fit, and sadly, those fits increasingly include violence.

A toddler can be given a swat on his rear end and sent to Time Out.

It's going to take a little more than Time Out to stop these adult toddlers who are out of control.



Read an article not too long ago, forget lnk, but it explained what we're seeing frm campus to parade as this generation has been raised to depend father and other aauthoties to take care of what distresses and offends for them. In public they throw tantrums in belief authorites will fix things and make them feel safe.

[Peter1469]

the estates-general =/= french court
Correct. I should have said government, not court.

[Crepitus]

Over the past eight years, the hard right have been blowing up forums and alt-right blogs about them getting ready to take back their country. Every day someone was saying how they were planning on heading to Washington to refresh the tree of liberty, now they are acting like they are neutered?

The Trump effect?

[resister]

Liberal fascism is standard fascism. You can blame your public school education for confusing you. Fascists have always been leftists. So were your professors.
You assume he went beyond high school, never heard him say he did...

[resister]

I get shut down on this forum, I subtract non relevant parts of a quote and get told I changed it.

18010

[resister]

The Trump effect?
TDS runs deep...into your life it will creep. It starts when your always afraid....

[Captain Obvious]

I get shut down on this forum, I subtract non relevant parts of a quote and get told I changed it.

18010

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder958/500x/66006958.jpg

[resister]

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder958/500x/66006958.jpg
I would agree, but....Shh..

[William]

Sorry, I haven't got the time to read this whole thread, but anyway, I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists. I have never met or heard anyone outside the USA who thinks that (I would be laughed at if I said 'left Fascism'), so I guess it must have something to do with your education system. But can I ask those who think that way if Ferdinand Marcos, Auguste Pinochet, or President Sueharto of Indonesia, all pretty much known to be Fascist, were in any way Socialists? Wouldn't they have to be if Fascism is the same as Socialism?

I think this whole parade cancelled thing is what my mum would call 'a storm in a teacup'. There is no evidence the email concerned came from either of the groups accused, and in fact they are both on record denying that. I have read a few media articles about this, and I see no evidence that children are either heavily involved with this parade or are looking forward hugely to it. I don't know who sent the email, but it was pretty silly to cancel an event over one crack-pot email. People on both sides of politics should be free to express themselves in a democracy, and if they break the law doing that - they have to pay the penalty.

[resister]

My money is on-non voting- "democrats".

Bet your ass Republicans are not behind it.

[Common Sense]

My money is on-non voting- "democrats".

Bet your ass Republicans are not behind it.

So people in your world are either R or D?

[Peter1469]

First I ever heard anything like that.


Sorry, I haven't got the time to read this whole thread, but anyway, I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists. I have never met or heard anyone outside the USA who thinks that (I would be laughed at if I said 'left Fascism'), so I guess it must have something to do with your education system. But can I ask those who think that way if Ferdinand Marcos, Auguste Pinochet, or President Sueharto of Indonesia, all pretty much known to be Fascist, were in any way Socialists? Wouldn't they have to be if Fascism is the same as Socialism?

I think this whole parade cancelled thing is what my mum would call 'a storm in a teacup'. There is no evidence the email concerned came from either of the groups accused, and in fact they are both on record denying that. I have read a few media articles about this, and I see no evidence that children are either heavily involved with this parade or are looking forward hugely to it. I don't know who sent the email, but it was pretty silly to cancel an event over one crack-pot email. People on both sides of politics should be free to express themselves in a democracy, and if they break the law doing that - they have to pay the penalty.

[resister]

So people in your world are either R or D?Stein voters are out there?

[Crepitus]

Fascism was intentionally misidentified by leftist professors after that WWII unpleasantness.

It's a conspiracy! !

Or is it a coup? I lose track of the loonyness sometimes.

[resister]

So people in your world are either R or D?Like 80 % of them, here in the USA? Sure!

[Crepitus]

There's a fascist rebellion? Where?

In his mind. Gonna be tough to get the national guard in there.

[resister]

In his mind. Gonna be tough to get the national guard in there.Where is Berkley, again?

[Crepitus]

Maybe this will stir up some RWNJ to go shooting up the place?

Don't give them any ideas.

[del]

It's a conspiracy! !

Or is it a coup? I lose track of the loonyness sometimes.

it's the deep state

[Crepitus]

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder958/500x/66006958.jpg

Dude! I thought you fixed that washer!

[Crepitus]

it's the deep state

Oh, is that what they call it?

[Crepitus]

Where is Berkley, again?

What's that got to do with it? There's no fascist rebellion there either.

[William]

First I ever heard anything like that.

Umm ... All these quotes are from this thread - am I misunderstanding something?


Incorrect. Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing -

(and)

More accurately, fascism is on the far left.


Whether they are democrats or not -- they're fascists.
Party affiliation means less than association with the fascist fringe of the Left.

(and)

I take it you haven't read Goldberg's, "Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, from Mussolini to the Politics of Change." I don't care for the title too well, because it wrongly suggests that all liberals are that way, but Goldberg very adeptly draws undeniable parallels from leftism in the 20th Century to the rise of some of the worst fascism the world has ever seen.


Liberal fascism is standard fascism. You can blame your public school education for confusing you. Fascists have always been leftists. So wereyour professors.

(and)

Both were left wing. Socialists. Your team.

(and)

Communists want the state to own businesses. Fascists want to control businesses through government regulation. The end is the same, dominance and control. The tactics are different. And both are leftist

[Bethere]

Umm ... All these quotes are from this thread - am I misunderstanding something?

No, you got it right.

[del]

Oh, is that what they call it?
it's deep, man

[resister]

What's that got to do with it? There's no fascist rebellion there either.No.. just that good old "free speech"...lol.

So tell us what IS going on, there?

[Peter1469]

Yes, it looks like it:

I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists.

Never head anyone in my life say anything like that.



Umm ... All these quotes are from this thread - am I misunderstanding something?

[del]

sad

[Peter1469]

Reading comprehension is horrible these days.

[del]

apparently

[resister]

Yes, it looks like it:

I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists.

Never head anyone in my life say anything like that.
William Totally misspelled "Todays, fringe Democrats"

[Bethere]

Yes, it looks like it:

I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists.

Never head anyone in my life say anything like that.

Most Americans do not think socialism and fascism are the same.

[Cletus]

No, you got it right.

No, he didn't get it right. Nor did you.

[Cletus]

Most Americans do not think socialism and fascism are the same.

Then why did you tell William he got it right when you knew he did not?

[William]

Yes, it looks like it:

I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists.

Never head anyone in my life say anything like that.

Well, if we agree that everyone I mentioned, from Hitler to Pinochet, were Fascists and that Communism is a form of Socialism, and we accept the views stated in this thread by many Americans (including yourself) that "Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing." then it must follow that many Americans think the Nazis, etc. were the same as the Communists/Socialists. Nicht war?

I have given my evidence for thinking that - if you claim I am mistaken, it is up to you to show how that is so.

And I would not have expected someone like you to pull that 'reading comprehension' thing with me. :wink:

[Bethere]

Then why did you tell William he got it right when you knew he did not?

Because he wasn't talking about what you think he was talking about.

[Cletus]

Because he wasn't talking about what you think he was talking about.

I really need to stop wasting time trying to get you to think.

[resister]

I really need to stop wasting time trying to get you to think.:BangHead: It will not work.

[Bethere]

I really need to stop wasting time trying to get you to think.
Pete said the same thing I did in his post, #196. We are both correct. What's wrong with you?

Pete and bethere disagree about the definitions of fascism and communism, but that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about whether the 3 quotes William used were from this thread or not--and whether he understood them.

Here's what William said:

Originally Posted by William http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2008843#post2008843)
Umm ... All these quotes are from this thread - am I misunderstanding something?

ALL OF THOSE POSTS WERE IN FACT FROM THIS THREAD. HE UNDERSTOOD THEM JUST FINE.

[William]

:BangHead: It will not work.

With respect, my friend, what does not work is making insulting remarks about people and then expecting them to see your point. We are all here for the purpose of discussion, and maybe learning something we didn't know - and while some people might think they are too superior to be bothered with explaining what they mean, a discussion doesn't work like that (not even a lecture works like that). :smiley:

[resister]

18011

[resister]

With respect, my friend, what does not work is making insulting remarks about people and then expecting them to see your point. We are all here for the purpose of discussion, and maybe learning something we didn't know - and while some people might think they are too superior to be bothered with explaining what they mean, a discussion doesn't work like that (not even a lecture works like that). :smiley:
You might just have a point if some people had the ethical standards you display, i'll leave it at that.

[William]

18011

???

'Too' is grammatically correct in that context - what was the point you are making? :huh:

[del]

nonexistent

[resister]

???

'Too' is grammatically correct in that context - what was the point you are making? :huh:
post 211 and 208

[resister]

nonexistent
72 blessed hours of peace, again, shattered. Damn...

[William]

You might just have a point if some people had the ethical standards you display, i'll leave it at that.

Lol, thanks for the compliment - but it's also just really common sense. If I call you names and imply you are too stupid to understand me - you are not really going to listen to what I have to say - are you?

Like we all have a valid point of view - given our individual circumstances and history - and I find everyone's story interesting. I don't have to either have the same world view or the same experiences to understand that is their experience and how they feel. I'm also not so stupid or big headed to think that I cannot learn something from everyone - we take different things from life, and we are pretty silly if we think we are right in everything.

[William]

post 211 and 208

I am a bear of very little brain and cryptic bothers me. :grin:

[resister]

Lol, thanks for the compliment - but it's also just really common sense. If I call you names and imply you are too stupid to understand me - you are not really going to listen to what I have to say - are you?

Like we all have a valid point of view - given our individual circumstances and history - and I find everyone's story interesting. I don't have to either have the same world view or the same experiences to understand that is their experience and how they feel. I'm also not so stupid or big headed to think that I cannot learn something from everyone - we take different things from life, and we are pretty silly if we think we are right in everything.
I agree, however, I don't hold much hope for some people.

Sometimes people have to be written off, William.

You can learn how not to be from such people, though.

Life is shorter than you might think.

[Bethere]

I am a bear of very little brain and cryptic bothers me. :grin:

It's more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?"

[resister]

Or someone that makes BS claims, repeatedly!

[William]

It's more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?"

Lol, I agree. I had lunch like only two hours ago, but I'm hungry again. My mum says she thinks there is something wrong with me, cos I eat enough for a small African country, but I'm still quite small and skinny for my age. :laugh:

[resister]

Lol, I agree. I had lunch like only two hours ago, but I'm hungry again. My mum says she thinks there is something wrong with me, cos I eat enough for a small African country, but I'm still quite small and skinny for my age. :laugh:
Enjoy that while it last! About the time you hit 35, it all goes downhill!:laugh:

[donttread]

This is a crock of shit, all the little facisist punks have to do is threaten violence and there is no longer free speech as these are democrats, do any forum members care to defend this despicable behavior that has no place in America?

Tolerance is the original one way street .

[Ransom]

I don't know anyone on the left who supports the violent tactics of the anti fascist groups or those who use the black bloc tactic. They are typically a mix bag of nuts. There are elements of anarchists, libertarians, far left socialists and punk kids. They no more represent the left than skinheads or the KKK represent the right.
What a load of absolute horseshiit.

[Crepitus]

No.. just that good old "free speech"...lol.

So tell us what IS going on, there?

People making their opinions known.

[Peter1469]

Most Americans do not think socialism and fascism are the same.

I agree, and would go further and say that I have never heard anyone who thought that.

I have heard people lump all totalitarian groups together- but they recognize they are not identical.

[Peter1469]

Well, if we agree that everyone I mentioned, from Hitler to Pinochet, were Fascists and that Communism is a form of Socialism, and we accept the views stated in this thread by many Americans (including yourself) that "Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing." then it must follow that many Americans think the Nazis, etc. were the same as the Communists/Socialists. Nicht war?

I have given my evidence for thinking that - if you claim I am mistaken, it is up to you to show how that is so.

And I would not have expected someone like you to pull that 'reading comprehension' thing with me. :wink:
This is not difficult. Maybe my post immediately above helps.

As an aside, how many different political models does your school discuss? One? Two? Six?

[Peter1469]

Lol, I agree. I had lunch like only two hours ago, but I'm hungry again. My mum says she thinks there is something wrong with me, cos I eat enough for a small African country, but I'm still quite small and skinny for my age. :laugh:

I could eat like a horse until around age 35. Then I had to start being careful.

[Peter1469]

What a load of absolute horseshiit.


Hillary Clinton does. She hired a company to provide the violent actions for the Trump campaigns and the "news" typed it up as Trump's fault.

[rcfieldz]

Another win for Satan and his unrepentant sinners.

[Chris]

Most Americans do not think socialism and fascism are the same.

Because they are different, and yet on certain points they are similar. So they can be compared, contrasted and an analogy can be made. Sowell does just that in a column asking whether Obama was Socialist or Fascist (https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/06/12/socialist-or-fascist-n742098):


It bothers me a little when conservatives call Barack Obama a "socialist." He certainly is an enemy of the free market, and wants politicians and bureaucrats to make the fundamental decisions about the economy. But that does not mean that he wants government ownership of the means of production, which has long been a standard definition of socialism.

What President Obama has been pushing for, and moving toward, is more insidious: government control of the economy, while leaving ownership in private hands. That way, politicians get to call the shots but, when their bright ideas lead to disaster, they can always blame those who own businesses in the private sector.

...One of the reasons why both pro-Obama and anti-Obama observers may be reluctant to see him as fascist is that both tend to accept the prevailing notion that fascism is on the political right, while it is obvious that Obama is on the political left.
Back in the 1920s, however, when fascism was a new political development, it was widely -- and correctly -- regarded as being on the political left. Jonah Goldberg's great book "Liberal Fascism" cites overwhelming evidence of the fascists' consistent pursuit of the goals of the left, and of the left's embrace of the fascists as one of their own during the 1920s.

...It was in the 1930s, when ugly internal and international actions by Hitler and Mussolini repelled the world, that the left distanced themselves from fascism and its Nazi offshoot -- and verbally transferred these totalitarian dictatorships to the right, saddling their opponents with these pariahs.

...What socialism, fascism and other ideologies of the left have in common is an assumption that some very wise people -- like themselves -- need to take decisions out of the hands of lesser people, like the rest of us, and impose those decisions by government fiat.

The left's vision is not only a vision of the world, but also a vision of themselves, as superior beings pursuing superior ends. In the United States, however, this vision conflicts with a Constitution that begins, "We the People..."

...

So they are different in some respects but similar in others.

And given WWII it's easy to see why the left wants to distance itself from facsism, to rewrite history.

[Chris]

I get shut down on this forum, I subtract non relevant parts of a quote and get told I changed it.

18010



resister

This is a rule 9 violation. If you have concerns about moderation, use PMs or Report.

[Mini Me]

Incorrect. Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing - the US has both a left and right wing, but the right wing side died out.
You have your wings backwards!Fascism has always been reich wing!

[Mini Me]

Over the past eight years, the hard right have been blowing up forums and alt-right blogs about them getting ready to take back their country. Every day someone was saying how they were planning on heading to Washington to refresh the tree of liberty, now they are acting like they are neutered?
The Tree of Liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood on right wing lunatics from time to time!

[Chris]

You have your wings backwards!Fascism has always been reich wing!

See post #231: "Back in the 1920s, however, when fascism was a new political development, it was widely -- and correctly -- regarded as being on the political left.... It was in the 1930s, when ugly internal and international actions by Hitler and Mussolini repelled the world, that the left distanced themselves from fascism and its Nazi offshoot -- and verbally transferred these totalitarian dictatorships to the right, saddling their opponents with these pariahs."

[Peter1469]

You have your wings backwards!Fascism has always been reich wing!

Oh? So the fascists march for less government and more individual liberty? Where do I sign up?

[resister]

People making their opinions known.With their fists and rioting....:rollseyes:

[Chris]

Oh? So the fascists march for less government and more individual liberty? Where do I sign up?

Maybe fewer governments, or one world government, as they conquered other nations.

[Peter1469]

Maybe fewer governments, or one world government, as they conquered other nations.


I will make sure they have my measurements, so my uniform is waiting for me. :shocked:

[Crepitus]

With their fists and rioting....:rollseyes:

Where do you think the American Revolution started?

[Chris]

Where do you think the American Revolution started?

A desire for local democratic government.

[Ransom]

Hillary Clinton does. She hired a company to provide the violent actions for the Trump campaigns and the "news" typed it up as Trump's fault.

I saw them during the inauguration. Police on universities and cities like Berkeley and Baltimore are being asked to stand down. Soros and other big fund contributors are holding resistance Séances. Oh yes they are supporting these tactics Common Sense speaks to, they've done nothing about it but cancel the events they threaten.

I'm calling bullshiit on that one because it's exactly what that was. Absolute f'n horse manure.

[exotix]

Yes, it looks like it:

I get the idea that some (most?) Americans think Fascism is the same as Socialism, and that the Italian Fascists and the German Nazis were really Communists.

Never head anyone in my life say anything like that.Do they think Stalin communists should goose-step like Nazi's ?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP35YKjHPkc

[resister]

Post more often.
Troll forum. com awaits you both. lol

[kilgram]

Incorrect. Most fascist movements in the world have been left wing - the US has both a left and right wing, but the right wing side died out.
That's the always repeated nonsense and lie. Fascism is and has been a right movement from its first day. It has no relation with the left.

However here, in these forums I've met many fascists. For this is fascinating this forum, the amount of closet fascists.

Militarists, ultranationalists or how they call themselves patriots and with a great amount of racism and sexism.

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[Chris]

That's the always repeated nonsense and lie. Fascism is and has been a right movement from its first day. It has no relation with the left.

However here, in these forums I've met many fascists. For this is fascinating this forum, the amount of closet fascists.

Militarists, ultranationalists or how they call themselves patriots and with a great amount of racism and sexism.

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That's the always repeated nonsense and lie. Fascism is and has been a right movement from its first day. It has no relation with the left.

Simply not true. The left embraced the central planning of facsim. FDR admired it. With the advent of war, against fascism, with communists as allies, the left distanced itself, and taught that in school.

[Peter1469]

That's the always repeated nonsense and lie. Fascism is and has been a right movement from its first day. It has no relation with the left.

However here, in these forums I've met many fascists. For this is fascinating this forum, the amount of closet fascists.

Militarists, ultranationalists or how they call themselves patriots and with a great amount of racism and sexism.

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False.

[Tahuyaman]

That's the always repeated nonsense and lie. Fascism is and has been a right movement from its first day. It has no relation with the left.

However here, in these forums I've met many fascists. For this is fascinating this forum, the amount of closet fascists.

Militarists, ultranationalists or how they call themselves patriots and with a great amount of racism and sexism.

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Hogwash.

[kilgram]

False.
False what you said.

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[kilgram]

Simply not true. The left embraced the central planning of facsim. FDR admired it. With the advent of war, against fascism, with communists as allies, the left distanced itself, and taught that in school.
FDR is not leftist. The left never has been in friend to fascism. Fascism has been the hidden weapon of capitalism to oppose the leftism.

Fascism used leftist symbology, that is true. And also some message copied from them. But that does not make them leftist, it makes them populist. They target the same people as the left so they copy some messages.

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