Should Federal Affirmative Action laws remain on the books?

[KC]

Or should they be repealed?

I don't think they're constitutional. See the enumerated powers + the Fourteenth Amendment. However, someone who believes in Affirmative Action at the Federal level could easily argue that they are still needed, and that we should put an amendment in place to protect them.

So, should we repeal Affirmative actions laws? Are they still needed? Why/not?

[Mister D]

They should probably have never been on the books in the first place. Racial discrimination is wrong or it's not. It doesn't depend on the group being victimized. Secondly, it has not had the effect progressives intended. There has been no reconciliation. Instead, it's provoked resentment and it should have. Nor has it met the goals progressives intended. Blacks and Hispanics continue to lag behind whites and Asians.

[Canadianeye]

Or should they be repealed?

I don't think they're constitutional. See the enumerated powers + the Fourteenth Amendment. However, someone who believes in Affirmative Action at the Federal level could easily argue that they are still needed, and that we should put an amendment in place to protect them.

So, should we repeal Affirmative actions laws? Are they still needed? Why/not?

I believe the original intent of direction was generally good. Then it became murky. Government agencies, contractors and subcontractors who received any funding from the government, could be penalized and punished. (Remember Obamas nobody did/does anything without the government).

Then....that turned into affirmative action quotas, which is the real problem.

[KC]

They should probably have never been on the books in the first place. Racial discrimination is wrong or it's not. It doesn't depend on the group being victimized. Secondly, it has not had the effect progressives intended. There has been no reconciliation. Instead, it's provoked resentment and it should have. Nor has it met the goals progressives intended. Blacks and Hispanics continue to lag behind whites and Asians.

I agree, but it's difficult for me to see what policy would have been a better one if the goal is to lower work place discrimination. Or, there's always the approach of not doing anything, which seems to work well for markets. I'm not sure how well it works though when combating long held racial attitudes, however.

[Mister D]

I agree, but it's difficult for me to see what policy would have been a better one if the goal is to lower work place discrimination. Or, there's always the approach of not doing anything, which seems to work well for markets. I'm not sure how well it works though when combating long held racial attitudes, however.

The state should not be combating our attitudes, racial or otherwise. What a mess we've made of this country.

[garyo]

It was well intended but it was changed and manipulated to benefit individuals and their agendas and in the mean time Whites were passed over in huge numbers for Gov jobs both federal and state levels and that's where it broke the law, and it should be repealed.

[Trinnity]

I think their Constitutionality is shaky as best, and they're outlived their purpose. Time to let them go, imo.

[KC]

The state should not be combating our attitudes, racial or otherwise. What a mess we've made of this country.

This is true. Can the free market combat racial attitudes? I suppose when I start with the premise that racial attitudes during the civil rights era would continue to be exclusionary towards blacks and other racial groups, it is difficult for me to see another way for blacks to gain even modest successes.

[Mister D]

It was well intended but it was changed and manipulated to benefit individuals and their agendas and in the mean time Whites were passed over in huge numbers for Gov jobs both federal and state levels and that's where it broke the law, and it should be repealed.

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is not the intention that matters but the result.

[Captain Obvious]

Racial equality should be equality for all races. Affirmative action contradicts the concept of racial equality.

Having said that there is real racial inequality. What could be considered is a "pay for performance" plan that would focus on CLASS (not race specifically) and a person of an identified underprivileged class can be given the opportunity for education and then a job based on criteria. If that person scores well during the education part, their education costs are waived and they are given the OPPORTUNITY to work them off to a degree with a job. Of course certain employers would need to be given incentives to hire this group of people, but if they do not do well in college or whatever, they may then be required to either work those costs off or be expelled from the program or something like that.

If they do well in the educational portion of the plan, they may then be required to work a fix period of time in one of the jobs which may include at a University or as a social worker or something like that at a hospital - say 4 years.

Then they're on their own if they complete these requirements.

A plan like this would take taxpayer money and give an opportunity to the underprivileged - but still require them to perform to maintain the program.

[Mister D]

I have to objection to a class based policy.

[Captain Obvious]

I have to objection to a class based policy.

Huh?

Did you mean "have to object" or "have no objection"?

[Mister D]

Huh?

Did you mean "have to object" or "have no objection"?

lol Yeah, the latter.

[Captain Obvious]

lol Yeah, the latter.

One of the major liberal universities - Columbia maybe? - moved to a class based AA system but a recent SCOTUS ruling forced them to move back I believe even though that program had positive results.

[Mister D]

One of the major liberal universities - Columbia maybe? - moved to a class based AA system but a recent SCOTUS ruling forced them to move back I believe even though that program had positive results.

Interesting. It's so much less divisive I don't know why they would force them ack.

[Canadianeye]

Racial equality should be equality for all races. Affirmative action contradicts the concept of racial equality.

Having said that there is real racial inequality. What could be considered is a "pay for performance" plan that would focus on CLASS (not race specifically) and a person of an identified underprivileged class can be given the opportunity for education and then a job based on criteria. If that person scores well during the education part, their education costs are waived and they are given the OPPORTUNITY to work them off to a degree with a job. Of course certain employers would need to be given incentives to hire this group of people, but if they do not do well in college or whatever, they may then be required to either work those costs off or be expelled from the program or something like that.

If they do well in the educational portion of the plan, they may then be required to work a fix period of time in one of the jobs which may include at a University or as a social worker or something like that at a hospital - say 4 years.

Then they're on their own if they complete these requirements.

A plan like this would take taxpayer money and give an opportunity to the underprivileged - but still require them to perform to maintain the program.

The concept is good. The timing, regarding all affirmative action initiatives is incorrect. The initiative and incentives should be taken at a much earlier process in the education system. Inspire parents and their children with affirmative action programs at a much earlier age to garner a better, and more worthy result/receipent.

This produces an effort of the citizenry at a much earlier stage to seize an opportunity. Efforts are rewarded before late stage advanced education, or, the workforce.

[Captain Obvious]

The concept is good. The timing, regarding all affirmative action initiatives is incorrect. The initiative and incentives should be taken at a much earlier process in the education system. Inspire parents and their children with affirmative action programs at a much earlier age to garner a better, and more worthy result/receipent.

This produces an effort of the citizenry at a much earlier stage to seize an opportunity. Efforts are rewarded before late stage advanced education, or, the workforce.

Agreed.

[Cigar]

It will be really interesting to see how historical Majorities handle this law once they become the Minority.

[Peter1469]

It will be really interesting to see how historical Majorities handle this law once they become the Minority.


Why? I have no problem with a system based on merit.

[Mister D]

It will be really interesting to see how historical Majorities handle this law once they become the Minority.

They already outcompete you and likely always will regardless of minority or majority status.

[Cigar]

Why? I have no problem with a system based on merit.

Neither do I

[Cigar]

They already outcompete you and likely always will regardless of minority or majority status.

Who?

[Mister D]

Who?

Whites and Asians outcompete blacks and Hispanics by wide margins. Well, except in professional sports. Hey, how about we have affirmative action for the NFL. Yeah, that will improve the game. :laugh:

[Mister D]

Neither do I

So then why did you ask your question? Let's have a merit based system and scrap racial quotas.

[Cigar]

Whites and Asians outcompete blacks and Hispanics by wide margins. Well, except in professional sports. Hey, how about we have affirmative action for the NFL. Yeah, that will improve the game. :laugh:

I can only control my performance.

[Mister D]

I can only control my performance.

You asked a question but you appear to agree with the opponents race based of affirmative action. You've answered your own question then.

[Cigar]

You asked a question but you appear to agree with the opponents race based of affirmative action. You've answered your own question then.

Well ... we're already getting a preview of how minorities react to loosing.

[Mister D]

Well ... we're already getting a preview of how minorities react to loosing.

Losing economicaly, academically etc. to whites? Yes, the losers demand race based affirmative action. Glad you agree they are wrong.

[Cigar]

Losing economicaly, academically etc. to whites? Yes, the losers demand race based affirmative action. Glad you agree they are wrong.



Anyone you know personally or are you just making generalizations?

[Mister D]

Anyone you know personally or are you just making generalizations?

The stats are what they are and political support for affirmative action is heavy amongst it's primary beneficiaries. Why is it that Negroes support these policies but get pissy when people call them out on it?

[Cigar]

The stats are what they are and political support for affirmative action is heavy amongst it's primary beneficiaries. Why is it that Negroes support these policies but get pissy when people call them out on it?

If you want to know ... ask a Negro.

[Mister D]

If you want to know ... ask a Negro.

Can't I ask a mulatto?

[Calypso Jones]

ask an oreo.

[Cigar]

ask an oreo.

Eat and Oreo

[roadmaster]

The best qualified person should get the job. I am not just talking about a degree because I have seen some with a four year degree that don't have a clue. Can't do simple math. What happened to good old on the job training? Even some high school teens running a cash-register can't figure out if the price is $8.45 and we give them $10.50 without the register telling them how much change to give back. When I was young we didn't have this problem.

[KC]

The best qualified person should get the job. I am not just talking about a degree because I have seen some with a four year degree that don't have a clue. Can't do simple math. What happened to good old on the job training? Even some high school teens running a cash-register can't figure out if the price is $8.45 and we give them $10.50 without the register telling them how much change to give back. When I was young we didn't have this problem.

We've become increasingly dependent on technology. If I was a math teacher there would be few times I'd allow students to use a calculator, but there's no way to control how they do their homework.

[Cigar]

We've become increasingly dependent on technology. If I was a math teacher there would be few times I'd allow students to use a calculator, but there's no way to control how they do their homework.

My first calculator ... :)

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.5009753678938970&pid=1.7&w=124&h=155&c=7&rs=1