Grand Jury subpoenas issued in FBI Russia probe

[decedent]

Grand jury subpoenas issued in FBI Russia probe
(http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/fbi/332670-grand-jury-subpoenas-issued-in-fbi-russia-probe-report)

Federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas as part of the ongoing probe of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to a new report.

The subpoenas to associates of former national security adviser Michael Flynn are seeking business records, CNN said Tuesday.

CNN confirmed with people familiar with the matter that the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Alexandria, Va., issued the subpoenas in recent weeks.

The subpoenas are a significant escalation of the FBI’s broader investigation into possible ties between Russia and President Trump’s 2016 campaign.
The news of subpoenas comes on the same night President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey.

The White House said Comey was fired at the recommendation of the Justice Department, but critics of the administration are questioning whether the action is related to the FBI's probe of Russian election interference and any possible ties between Trump's campaign and Moscow.


It's starting to hit the fan, and Trump can't fire a Grand Jury.

These subpoenas (some EDVA experts are speculating that they're indictments, but I have my doubts) focus mainly around Flynn's activities. The subpoenas seem to be coming from the office with the SCIF in it, for NATSEC crimes, which is prudent for the Flynn investigation. Trump just hired a legal team to fight against any rumors of him and Russia. He wanted Comey replaced so quickly that he had his own bodyguard deliver his termination papers, as is customary in a Banana Republic.

Senators from both sides of the isle are questioning Trump's actions, especially the timing and reason for firing Comey. Bipartisan support for an independent investigation is growing. Drip... drip...

The White House is refusing to cooperate with the current in-house committee, but Trump can only evade justice for so long.

[Dr. Who]

Grand jury subpoenas issued in FBI Russia probe
(http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/fbi/332670-grand-jury-subpoenas-issued-in-fbi-russia-probe-report)

Federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas as part of the ongoing probe of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to a new report.

The subpoenas to associates of former national security adviser Michael Flynn are seeking business records, CNN said Tuesday.

CNN confirmed with people familiar with the matter that the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Alexandria, Va., issued the subpoenas in recent weeks.

The subpoenas are a significant escalation of the FBI’s broader investigation into possible ties between Russia and President Trump’s 2016 campaign.
The news of subpoenas comes on the same night President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey.

The White House said Comey was fired at the recommendation of the Justice Department, but critics of the administration are questioning whether the action is related to the FBI's probe of Russian election interference and any possible ties between Trump's campaign and Moscow.


It's starting to hit the fan, and Trump can't fire a Grand Jury.

These subpoenas (some EDVA experts are speculating that they're indictments, but I have my doubts) focus mainly around Flynn's activities. The subpoenas seem to be coming from the office with the SCIF in it, for NATSEC crimes, which is prudent for the Flynn investigation. Trump just hired a legal team to fight against any rumors of him and Russia. He wanted Comey replaced so quickly that he had his own bodyguard deliver his termination papers, as is customary in a Banana Republic.

Senators from both sides of the isle are questioning Trump's actions, especially the timing and reason for firing Comey. Bipartisan support for an independent investigation is growing. Drip... drip...

The White House is refusing to cooperate with the current in-house committee, but Trump can only evade justice for so long.

Even if there is nothing to the accusations, this action is basically adding fuel to the fire and making it seem like he has something to hide. Looking at it objectively, if he had nothing to hide, why fire Comey all of a sudden? He's either emotionally uncontrollable or he's trying to shut down the investigation for cause. While he is volatile, I don't think that he's an idiot, so I can only conclude that the FBI found something.

[decedent]

Even if there is nothing to the accusations, this action is basically adding fuel to the fire and making it seem like he has something to hide. Looking at it objectively, if he had nothing to hide, why fire Comey all of a sudden? He's either emotionally uncontrollable or he's trying to shut down the investigation for cause. While he is volatile, I don't think that he's an idiot, so I can only conclude that the FBI found something.

He took a huge credibility hit. Whatever he's hiding, it must be huge.


Remember that time Trump was outraged at finding out that Flynn was a Russian agent? Neither do I. He was involved.

[Ethereal]

McCarthyism 2.0 is entering the next level.

Banana republic, indeed.

[Ethereal]

He took a huge credibility hit. Whatever he's hiding, it must be huge.


Remember that time Trump was outraged at finding out that Flynn was a Russian agent? Neither do I. He was involved.
There was much more evidence that Hillary Clinton was an agent of Wall Street bankers and Israel, but that didn't seem to bother some people.

[decedent]

McCarthyism 2.0 is entering the next level.

Banana republic, indeed.


I don't think you get the "independent investigation" part.


Trump fired the guy who was investigating him. This is what happens in a Banana Republic.


Democrat and Republican patriots who care about justice are calling for an independent investigation.


Meanwhile, Sessions said he'd recuse himself from anything related to Russia. This was obviously a lie.

There was much more evidence that Hillary Clinton was an agent of Wall Street bankers and Israel, but that didn't seem to bother some people.

Relevance?

[Bethere]

Grand jury subpoenas issued in FBI Russia probe
(http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/fbi/332670-grand-jury-subpoenas-issued-in-fbi-russia-probe-report)

Federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas as part of the ongoing probe of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to a new report.

The subpoenas to associates of former national security adviser Michael Flynn are seeking business records, CNN said Tuesday.

CNN confirmed with people familiar with the matter that the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Alexandria, Va., issued the subpoenas in recent weeks.

The subpoenas are a significant escalation of the FBI’s broader investigation into possible ties between Russia and President Trump’s 2016 campaign.
The news of subpoenas comes on the same night President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey.

The White House said Comey was fired at the recommendation of the Justice Department, but critics of the administration are questioning whether the action is related to the FBI's probe of Russian election interference and any possible ties between Trump's campaign and Moscow.


It's starting to hit the fan, and Trump can't fire a Grand Jury.

These subpoenas (some EDVA experts are speculating that they're indictments, but I have my doubts) focus mainly around Flynn's activities. The subpoenas seem to be coming from the office with the SCIF in it, for NATSEC crimes, which is prudent for the Flynn investigation. Trump just hired a legal team to fight against any rumors of him and Russia. He wanted Comey replaced so quickly that he had his own bodyguard deliver his termination papers, as is customary in a Banana Republic.

Senators from both sides of the isle are questioning Trump's actions, especially the timing and reason for firing Comey. Bipartisan support for an independent investigation is growing. Drip... drip...

The White House is refusing to cooperate with the current in-house committee, but Trump can only evade justice for so long.

A grand jury is an ominous sign. Things are moving right along.

[Cletus]

Even if there is nothing to the accusations, this action is basically adding fuel to the fire and making it seem like he has something to hide. Looking at it objectively, if he had nothing to hide, why fire Comey all of a sudden? He's either emotionally uncontrollable or he's trying to shut down the investigation for cause. While he is volatile, I don't think that he's an idiot, so I can only conclude that the FBI found something.

You are basing that on what you want rather than any evidence.

[Cletus]

He took a huge credibility hit.

It actually went up quite a bit.

[Crepitus]

There was much more evidence that Hillary Clinton was an agent of Wall Street bankers and Israel, but that didn't seem to bother some people.

Neither one of those is actually a crime, much less treason.

[decedent]

It actually went up quite a bit.

You may want to avoid the TV on Wednesday afternoon.

[Cletus]

You may want to avoid the TV on Wednesday afternoon.

I see no reason to do so.

Did you see the audience reaction in that idiot Colbert's show tonight? The people in his audience aren't Conservatives.

[Ethereal]

I don't think you get the "independent investigation" part.

Trump fired the guy who was investigating him. This is what happens in a Banana Republic.

Democrat and Republican patriots who care about justice are calling for an independent investigation.

Meanwhile, Sessions said he'd recuse himself from anything related to Russia. This was obviously a lie.

Investigations are supposed to be based on things like probable cause and reasonable suspicion, not innuendo, speculation, and rumor.

In any case, there is nothing "independent" about how the DC establishment conducts itself. They are crooked as a dog's hind leg and will do whatever is in the best interests of the oligarchy who really runs the show. In this case, it's stirring up anti-Russian hysteria as a means of promoting perpetual war and conflict.


Relevance?

It goes to the phoniness and inconsistency of this investigation.

Israel, more than any other country, manipulates US politics and elections, yet where are all the investigations trying to expose that? There are none. In fact, it's just the opposite. US politicians routinely and openly prostrate themselves before Israel and its interests.

And then there is the undue influence that international finance exercises over the political process. The Congress doesn't seem very concerned with that either. Probably because they're cronies of the bankers.

Oh, but let's investigate the tenuous connection between Trump and Russia because it's destroying our nonexistent democracy!

:rollseyes:

[Ethereal]

Neither one of those is actually a crime, much less treason.

Actually, it is a crime to be an agent of a foreign power without registering as such. Unfortunately, being an agent of Israel has become so commonplace in Washington DC that enforcement of that particular law in a consistent manner would prove decidedly inconvenient to a great many individuals.

In any case, nothing Trump has been accused of with regards to Russia would ever rise to "treason" since Russia is not an "enemy" in any technical or legal sense of the word. We are not in a state of war with Russia nor has any legislation designated them as an enemy, so no relationship with them can be construed as "treason" against the US.

[Peter1469]

This appears to be a subpoena duces tecum, or for evidence as opposed to for testimony.

Remember when General Petraus was investigated? The FBI got a search warrant and raided his house for evidence.

Why not do the same thing with Flynn and his records? All they need is probable cause that a crime was committed and Flynn committed it. Then a judge will issue a search warrant.

This is all politics. The dems and the media- sorry I repeat myself- are ecstatic that Flynn was fired. He hurt their girl. Buckles, the Clown. (a.k.a., Hillary). And now they have something else to anchor their games on.

[FindersKeepers]

Actually, it is a crime to be an agent of a foreign power without registering as such. Unfortunately, being an agent of Israel has become so commonplace in Washington DC that enforcement of that particular law in a consistent manner would prove decidedly inconvenient to a great many individuals.

In any case, nothing Trump has been accused of with regards to Russia would ever rise to "treason" since Russia is not an "enemy" in any technical or legal sense of the word. We are not in a state of war with Russia nor has any legislation designated them as an enemy, so no relationship with them can be construed as "treason" against the US.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that -- what treason really is.

They throw the word around a lot -- but it doesn't really apply.

[Peter1469]

We have a lot of people who either are too dumb to understand the English language or deliberately misuse it to advance an agenda.

Xenophobia, racism, treason, fascism, etc.


[/B]

I think a lot of people are forgetting that -- what treason really is.

They throw the word around a lot -- but it doesn't really apply.

[Common]

Many former FBI asst directors said it was good Comey was fired, Im not so sure it was a good move, have to wait and see

[Common]

The funniest thing about this thread, is that the democrats have been wailing for months that the Comey handed the election to trump. Hillary blames Comey for her losing, democrats said comey was in trumps pocket.

Now trump fires him and the left loves them some Comey

[donttread]

Grand jury subpoenas issued in FBI Russia probe
(http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/fbi/332670-grand-jury-subpoenas-issued-in-fbi-russia-probe-report)

Federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas as part of the ongoing probe of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to a new report.

The subpoenas to associates of former national security adviser Michael Flynn are seeking business records, CNN said Tuesday.

CNN confirmed with people familiar with the matter that the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Alexandria, Va., issued the subpoenas in recent weeks.

The subpoenas are a significant escalation of the FBI’s broader investigation into possible ties between Russia and President Trump’s 2016 campaign.
The news of subpoenas comes on the same night President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey.

The White House said Comey was fired at the recommendation of the Justice Department, but critics of the administration are questioning whether the action is related to the FBI's probe of Russian election interference and any possible ties between Trump's campaign and Moscow.


It's starting to hit the fan, and Trump can't fire a Grand Jury.

These subpoenas (some EDVA experts are speculating that they're indictments, but I have my doubts) focus mainly around Flynn's activities. The subpoenas seem to be coming from the office with the SCIF in it, for NATSEC crimes, which is prudent for the Flynn investigation. Trump just hired a legal team to fight against any rumors of him and Russia. He wanted Comey replaced so quickly that he had his own bodyguard deliver his termination papers, as is customary in a Banana Republic.

Senators from both sides of the isle are questioning Trump's actions, especially the timing and reason for firing Comey. Bipartisan support for an independent investigation is growing. Drip... drip...

The White House is refusing to cooperate with the current in-house committee, but Trump can only evade justice for so long.


The Russians are as the Russians have been. The N. Koreans are ass they have been. Assad is how he has been.
Yet now the drums of conflict and war are beating louder and louder. Why?

[Safety]

Neither one of those is actually a crime, much less treason.

Was Hillary and Wall Street actually mentioned? I mean, have they looked at the current Trump cabinet? Like someone said earlier, the only Goldman Sachs employees Trump didn't hire are Goldman and Sachs.

[NapRover]

You are basing that on what you want rather than any evidence.
There is plenty of evidence that Putin hated Hillary. What does Putin do when he hates you? He sought to bring her down.

There's no (not even a smidgen of) evidence of Trump/ Putin collusion, that's totally fabricated and hallucinated based on hysteria over the election.

[NapRover]

Was Hillary and Wall Street actually mentioned? I mean, have they looked at the current Trump cabinet? Like someone said earlier, the only Goldman Sachs employees Trump didn't hire are Goldman and Sachs.
Maybe he should have hired the solyndra folks or other homeless bums to appease the left. He's entitled to name a cabinet without cultural Marxism being the main influence.

[donttread]

There is plenty of evidence that Putin hated Hillary. What does Putin do when he hates you? He sought to bring her down.

There's no (not even a smidgen of) evidence of Trump/ Putin collusion, that's totally fabricated and hallucinated based on hysteria over the election.

Even Bill hates Hilary. I mean it's a pretty long list!

[Adelaide]

Grand juries are not always reliable. They have been known to find probable cause where there is none or a lack of it and they almost always rule a certain way on specific issues. For example, in police shootings, they vote overwhelmingly against indicting anyone. 81 incidents of police using their weapons to kill between 2008 and 2010 and only 1 indictment. Everyone should be indicted for probable cause, except certain people like police officers.

If I ever commit a crime, I hope I do not have to worry about a grand jury. Mind you, I would probably be a bitter and cynical person if I were chained to jury duty for up to a year.

Anyways, subpoenas make sense. It's part of the process.

[Crepitus]

Actually, it is a crime to be an agent of a foreign power without registering as such. Unfortunately, being an agent of Israel has become so commonplace in Washington DC that enforcement of that particular law in a consistent manner would prove decidedly inconvenient to a great many individuals.

In any case, nothing Trump has been accused of with regards to Russia would ever rise to "treason" since Russia is not an "enemy" in any technical or legal sense of the word. We are not in a state of war with Russia nor has any legislation designated them as an enemy, so no relationship with them can be construed as "treason" against the US.

You are of course correct with regard to Israel. My bad there.

[Crepitus]

There is plenty of evidence that Putin hated Hillary. What does Putin do when he hates you? He sought to bring her down.

There's no (not even a smidgen of) evidence of Trump/ Putin collusion, that's totally fabricated and hallucinated based on hysteria over the election.

Wishful thinking. Not terribly productice.

[Safety]

Maybe he should have hired the solyndra folks or other homeless bums to appease the left. He's entitled to name a cabinet without cultural Marxism being the main influence.

Really? What does your diatribe have to do with the fact that someone mentioned Wall Street and Hillary, and I responded with Trump hiring Wall Street execs? You're the only one bringing Marxism into the discussion.

[zelmo1234]

I don't think you get the "independent investigation" part.
Trump fired the guy who was investigating him. This is what happens in a Banana Republic.

Democrat and Republican patriots who care about justice are calling for an independent investigation.
Meanwhile, Sessions said he'd recuse himself from anything related to Russia. This was obviously a lie.
Relevance?

Just a thought? If Trump fired the guy that was investigating him??? How is it that the Subpoenas went out?

I thought that the investigation was dead, according to democrats, now that Comey was gone? Did I miss something here?

[zelmo1234]

Wishful thinking. Not terribly productice.

Well you have to admit that is sure backfired on Putin, because according to democrats we are going to be at war with Russia because of Trump? Which one is it, I get confused.

[zelmo1234]

Even Bill hates Hilary. I mean it's a pretty long list!
Well that might be, but it is clear that if Hillary was not playing fast and loose with National Security, and Selling access to the State Department, this never would have happened and we would not be talking about it.

[Crepitus]

Well you have to admit that is sure backfired on Putin, because according to democrats we are going to be at war with Russia because of Trump? Which one is it, I get confused.

According to what democrats? Not this one that's for sure.

[zelmo1234]

According to what democrats? Not this one that's for sure.

Hell I was not even watching the news and when he Bombed Syria, Word came around that we were heading to war with Russia. Go back and see the words of Schumer, Pelosi, and the progressive GOP members they were loosing their mind. But I am sure that you already know what I am talking about.

[zelmo1234]

If the Democrats were loosing there Mind over this? I would really be concerned about President Trumps dealings with Russia, but if this is OK? then they need to get over it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

[Mini Me]

There was much more evidence that Hillary Clinton was an agent of Wall Street bankers and Israel, but that didn't seem to bother some people.

But the Agent Orange is balls deep into Goldman's, and Izrahell and Bibi's Gestapo, and Russians! This much is undeniable!

Hillary is old news!

[Mini Me]

You are basing that on what you want rather than any evidence.

World Opinion is unanimous that the The Agent Orange is a bloomin IDIOT!

[Crepitus]

Hell I was not even watching the news and when he Bombed Syria, Word came around that we were heading to war with Russia. Go back and see the words of Schumer, Pelosi, and the progressive GOP members they were loosing their mind. But I am sure that you already know what I am talking about.

The whole bombing thing was a sham. Everyone was warned. There was virtually no damage. It was supposed to convince us tRump isn't Russia's puppet.

Didn't work.

[Archer0915]

Even if there is nothing to the accusations, this action is basically adding fuel to the fire and making it seem like he has something to hide. Looking at it objectively, if he had nothing to hide, why fire Comey all of a sudden? He's either emotionally uncontrollable or he's trying to shut down the investigation for cause. While he is volatile, I don't think that he's an idiot, so I can only conclude that the FBI found something.
Why fire him?


WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal_bureau_of_investigation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) on Tuesday clarified testimony last week by its director, James B. Comey, about how classified information ended up on the laptop of the disgraced former congressman Anthony Weiner (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/anthony_d_weiner/index.html?inline=nyt-per), hours before Mr. Comey was fired by President Trump (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/us/politics/james-comey-fired-fbi.html).Mr. Comey had told the Senate Judiciary Committee (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/us/politics/james-comey-fbi-senate-hearing.html) that during the F.B.I.’s investigation into Hillary Clinton (http://www.nytimes.com/topic/person/hillary-rodham-clinton?inline=nyt-per)’s use of a private email server while secretary of state, officers uncovered evidence that Mrs. Clinton’s aide, Huma Abedin, had “forwarded hundreds and thousands of emails, some of which contain classified information” to Mr. Weiner, her husband.
But while some of the emails were forwarded, the F.B.I. told Congress that it was likely that the vast majority were instead backed up to Mr. Weiner’s laptop.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/us/politics/comey-clinton-emails-testimony.html?_r=0

[Archer0915]

Just WOW! All this banter and one post... Crickets!

[decedent]

Just a thought? If Trump fired the guy that was investigating him??? How is it that the Subpoenas went out?

A grand jury. It's in the title of this thread.

[MisterVeritis]

The whole bombing thing was a sham. Everyone was warned. There was virtually no damage. It was supposed to convince us tRump isn't Russia's puppet.

Didn't work.
Hmmm. Virtually no damage:
Seven soldiers killed. About 15 wounded.
20 jets destroyed.
Hangars destroyed and damaged.

[Bethere]

Hmmm. Virtually no damage:
Seven soldiers killed. About 15 wounded.
20 jets destroyed.
Hangars destroyed and damaged.

And the runway was operational within hours.

[MisterVeritis]

And the runway was operational within hours.
I see. If the runway was undamaged then Trump is a Putin puppet.

[jimmyz]

Me and several people I know that voted for Trump are still waiting for our Russian checks for doing so.

[Ethereal]

You are of course correct with regard to Israel. My bad there.
And it gives lie to the ostensible motives behind these investigations. It has nothing to do with protecting American democracy and sovereignty from foreign interference. It's just more establishment chicanery meant promote their own seedy agendas.

[Ethereal]

But the Agent Orange is balls deep into Goldman's, and Izrahell and Bibi's Gestapo, and Russians! This much is undeniable!

Hillary is old news!
I agree that Trump is now a deep state puppet. But I do not agree that he's a Russian puppet. I mean, you cannot claim that Trump is a puppet of globalist bankers AND the Russians.

[MisterVeritis]

Me and several people I know that voted for Trump are still waiting for our Russian checks for doing so.
It will come in the form of a gift card redeemable at any store in Moscow.

[Bethere]

I see. If the runway was undamaged then Trump is a Putin puppet.

Is that what I said?

You have not been authorized to speak on behalf of the Master.

[MisterVeritis]

Is that what I said?

You have not been authorized to speak on behalf of the Master.
It is simpler to ignore you.

[Ethereal]

Is that what I said?

Yes, it is.

[Bethere]

It is simpler to ignore you.

Go for it.

[The Xl]

Neither one of those is actually a crime, much less treason.

Being an agent of another country and putting bankers above Americans is absolutely treason.

[Bethere]

Is that what I said?

You have not been authorized to speak on behalf of the Master.


Yes, it is.

False. Here are ALL of my comments from this thread:


And the runway was operational within hours.

A grand jury is an ominous sign. Things are moving right along.

I don't view what you just did as posting in good faith.

Jmho.

[The Xl]

Was Hillary and Wall Street actually mentioned? I mean, have they looked at the current Trump cabinet? Like someone said earlier, the only Goldman Sachs employees Trump didn't hire are Goldman and Sachs.

Is Trump an agent of the banking cartel or a Russian plant? Pick one, because it can't be both.

[Bethere]

Is Trump an agent of the banking cartel or a Russian plant? Pick one, because it can't be both.

Of course it can be both. Sanctions on Russian banks force them into situations where they might seek to launder money.

[Safety]

Is Trump an agent of the banking cartel or a Russian plant? Pick one, because it can't be both.

Why are they mutually exclusive? He hired wall street execs to fill his cabinet, and he uses Russian money to fund his properties (per his son's words). Seems like he can multitask.

[Peter1469]

This appears to be a subpoena duces tecum.

Look it up and take a chill pill.

[Safety]

False. Here are ALL of my comments from this thread:




I don't view what you just did as posting in good faith.

Jmho.

No, that was not in good faith. Let's see what happens.

[Safety]

This appears to be a subpoena duces tecum.

Look it up and take a chill pill.

Why do I need a chill pill?

[decedent]

Why do I need a chill pill?

It's all they've got. Their ship is sinking, so they call us unhinged bedshitters who make mountains out of molehills. They're scared, but they shouldn't be: the worst that happens is Pence becomes President and Democrats take over the Senate in 2018.

[Crepitus]

And it gives lie to the ostensible motives behind these investigations. It has nothing to do with protecting American democracy and sovereignty from foreign interference. It's just more establishment chicanery meant promote their own seedy agendas.

No, it doesn't. If it turned out the Netanyahu had used Israeli government resources and hacked, propagandized, and trolled our elections I'd be after him and his chosen puppet as well.

[donttread]

Well that might be, but it is clear that if Hillary was not playing fast and loose with National Security, and Selling access to the State Department, this never would have happened and we would not be talking about it.


No argument there. But washington itself is basically corrupt. We have higher expectations from the neighbor kid then we do our federal politicians. And with good reason. If we accept the neighbor kid's account of how long he took to mow the lawn and therefore how much we might owe him, he'll probably either be honest or add 10%.
If we take a politicians word for it: A hammer cost $600.00, those corporations were REALLY were on the verge of bankrupcy and REALLY were too big to fail, and REALLY would of crashed the world economy ( despite the fact that they looked pretty economically healthy pretty quick and one car company that did not take a bail out did NOT go down in flames)and oh yeah Iraq had nukes, etc.
There dishonesty cost us dollars and lives everyday.

[MisterVeritis]

No argument there. But washington itself is basically corrupt. We have higher expectations from the neighbor kid then we do our federal politicians. And with good reason. If we accept the neighbor kid's account of how long he took to mow the lawn and therefore how much we might owe him, he'll probably either be honest or add 10%.
If we take a politicians word for it: A hammer cost $600.00, those corporations were REALLY were on the verge of bankrupcy and REALLY were too big to fail, and REALLY would of crashed the world economy ( despite the fact that they looked pretty economically healthy pretty quick and one car company that did not take a bail out did NOT go down in flames)and oh yeah Iraq had nukes, etc.
There dishonesty cost us dollars and lives everyday.
I have mentioned this before. The $600 dollar hammer resulted from a government worker who did not understand requirements. Requirements drive cost. If you make me prove the hammer can be used during a 2+G maneuver then the cost of the hammer includes the cost to engineer a test, evaluate its results, prepare and defend the test.

I am familiar with another requirement fiasco where a coffee pot was required to withstand effects from a near-miss nuclear burst. Someone cut and pasted a requirement out of someone else's program because it sounded good.

[Peter1469]

I have mentioned this before. The $600 dollar hammer resulted from a government worker who did not understand requirements. Requirements drive cost. If you make me prove the hammer can be used during a 2+G maneuver then the cost of the hammer includes the cost to engineer a test, evaluate its results, prepare and defend the test.

I am familiar with another requirement fiasco where a coffee pot was required to withstand effects from a near-miss nuclear burst. Someone cut and pasted a requirement out of someone else's program because it sounded good.

Gotta have coffee after a nuclear war. :smiley:

[MisterVeritis]

Gotta have coffee after a nuclear war. :smiley:
I won't mention the program. But yes, one must have coffee at precisely 160 degrees F after dropping a nuclear weapon on a target and getting away.