View Full Version : Donald Trump
pjohns
05-15-2017, 01:13 PM
In judging the presidency of Donald Trump, it is quite easy to be unfair. There are, after all, so many different categories that deserve analysis; and they really should not be confused.
Here are some of the more important ones:
Personality. Frankly, Donald Trump is a bit too brash and in-your-face to suit my preference. The late Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were much more to my liking, in that regard. Grade: D
Temperament. Donald Trump’s temperament is a bit further to the hot end of the scale than I would prefer. Grade: C-
Political Philosophy. Unfortunately, the man has no discernible political philosophy that is consistent. Grade: C-
Governance. He has, however, governed much as I would like: more like a true conservative than like the New York liberal that he once seemed to be. Grade: A-
Decisiveness. He has truly been decisive. His sending 59 missiles toward Syria (58 of which hit their targets), and an enormous bomb (the MOAB) to Afghanistan, speak to this fact. (His next real test will be Kim Jung-un, in North Korea.) Grade: A-
Political Correctness. Thankfully, he totally rejects it. Grade: A
The first three items, in my opinion, work strongly against the man.
However, the last three more than make up for any other shortcomings, as far as I am concerned.
Safety
05-15-2017, 01:17 PM
You missed a spot.
decedent
05-15-2017, 01:41 PM
In judging the presidency of Donald Trump, it is quite easy to be unfair. There are, after all, so many different categories that deserve analysis; and they really should not be confused.
Here are some of the more important ones:
Personality. Frankly, Donald Trump is a bit too brash and in-your-face to suit my preference. The late Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were much more to my liking, in that regard. Grade: D
Temperament. Donald Trump’s temperament is a bit further to the hot end of the scale than I would prefer. Grade: C-
Political Philosophy. Unfortunately, the man has no discernible political philosophy that is consistent. Grade: C-
Governance. He has, however, governed much as I would like: more like a true conservative than like the New York liberal that he once seemed to be. Grade: A-
Decisiveness. He has truly been decisive. His sending 59 missiles toward Syria (58 of which hit their targets), and an enormous bomb (the MOAB) to Afghanistan, speak to this fact. (His next real test will be Kim Jung-un, in North Korea.) Grade: A-
Political Correctness. Thankfully, he totally rejects it. Grade: A
The first three items, in my opinion, work strongly against the man.
However, the last three more than make up for any other shortcomings, as far as I am concerned.
I mostly agree with these, except the last one.
As for his decisiveness, that has worked against him. His unwillingness to agree with Congress, and the resulting tantrums, have worked against him.
NapRover
05-15-2017, 06:24 PM
In judging the presidency of Donald Trump, it is quite easy to be unfair. There are, after all, so many different categories that deserve analysis; and they really should not be confused.
Here are some of the more important ones:
Personality. Frankly, Donald Trump is a bit too brash and in-your-face to suit my preference. The late Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were much more to my liking, in that regard. Grade: D
Temperament. Donald Trump’s temperament is a bit further to the hot end of the scale than I would prefer. Grade: C-
Political Philosophy. Unfortunately, the man has no discernible political philosophy that is consistent. Grade: C-
Governance. He has, however, governed much as I would like: more like a true conservative than like the New York liberal that he once seemed to be. Grade: A-
Decisiveness. He has truly been decisive. His sending 59 missiles toward Syria (58 of which hit their targets), and an enormous bomb (the MOAB) to Afghanistan, speak to this fact. (His next real test will be Kim Jung-un, in North Korea.) Grade: A-
Political Correctness. Thankfully, he totally rejects it. Grade: A
The first three items, in my opinion, work strongly against the man.
However, the last three more than make up for any other shortcomings, as far as I am concerned.
I like these too.
In his haste to make deals, he caved in so Dems celebrated. So I guess he worked with congress more than I wanted him to. Eventually, he's going to have to start playing hardball though.
He needs to end this special prosecutor BS. He should announce there's not going to be one, and if one is appointed, he'd fire them immediate. A+ for that.
Captain Obvious
05-15-2017, 09:20 PM
Trump is a hired hitman created by the left.
He'll never go down as one of our better presidents and can you guess how many fucks I have to give on that?
He needs to undo as much damage as he can that was done by his predecessor. If he makes a few bucks in the process, I really don't care as long as he gets as much done as he can.
The future of the GOP really depends on his success. If they obstruct, I hope conservative voters take note.
Casper
05-15-2017, 09:29 PM
I like these too.
In his haste to make deals, he caved in so Dems celebrated. So I guess he worked with congress more than I wanted him to. Eventually, he's going to have to start playing hardball though.
He needs to end this special prosecutor BS. He should announce there's not going to be one, and if one is appointed, he'd fire them immediate. A+ for that.
Not his call and if he tried they would remove him, Period.
Green Arrow
05-15-2017, 10:51 PM
Why is decisiveness so important when it completely lacks discernment? Decisiveness is important but without discernment, it's just as dangerous as indecisiveness.
Green Arrow
05-15-2017, 10:51 PM
I like these too.
In his haste to make deals, he caved in so Dems celebrated. So I guess he worked with congress more than I wanted him to. Eventually, he's going to have to start playing hardball though.
He needs to end this special prosecutor BS. He should announce there's not going to be one, and if one is appointed, he'd fire them immediate. A+ for that.
So you want a king, not a president.
resister
05-15-2017, 11:59 PM
So you want a king, not a president.Obama is gone, relax.
The Xl
05-16-2017, 12:56 AM
He's an A++ in causing mayhem and fuckery within the system, and that's all that matters to me at this point.
pjohns
05-16-2017, 02:09 PM
I mostly agree with these, except the last one.
As for his decisiveness, that has worked against him. His unwillingness to agree with Congress, and the resulting tantrums, have worked against him.
Actually, decisiveness is not the "last one." (Political correctness is.)
Sometimes, people who upbraid him for his "unwillingness to agree with Congress" are actually suggesting that he should simply acquiesce to them. And I do not agree.
Members of Congress--including Republicans--answer to their constituents; so their particular agendas may not always agree with those of President Trump.
decedent
05-16-2017, 02:12 PM
He's an A++ in causing mayhem and fuckery within the system, and that's all that matters to me at this point.
What if the Democrats take the Senate in 2018, then win the general in 2020? Is this worth it? It seems that Trump is destroying the Republican party more than he's destroying the system.
Captain Obvious
05-16-2017, 02:14 PM
What if the Democrats take the Senate in 2018, then win the general in 2020? Is this worth it? It seems that Trump is destroying the Republican party more than he's destroying the system.
Don't be silly, conservatives will have rounded up all of the snowflakes by then and put them all in concentration camps.
Do you need new lampshades by chance?
decedent
05-16-2017, 02:17 PM
Don't be silly, conservatives will have rounded up all of the snowflakes by then and put them all in concentration camps.
Do you need new lampshades by chance?
I guess I've got a new fan, even if it's a troll.
Green Arrow
05-16-2017, 04:17 PM
Obama is gone, relax.
Stop trolling and address the topic.
MisterVeritis
05-16-2017, 04:26 PM
Why is decisiveness so important when it completely lacks discernment? Decisiveness is important but without discernment, it's just as dangerous as indecisiveness.
I prefer Trump's instincts and judgment to yours.
The Xl
05-16-2017, 04:28 PM
What if the Democrats take the Senate in 2018, then win the general in 2020? Is this worth it? It seems that Trump is destroying the Republican party more than he's destroying the system.
I think both parties are beyond corrupt and can't be saved. I don't care what happens to either party.
MisterVeritis
05-16-2017, 04:28 PM
What if the Democrats take the Senate in 2018, then win the general in 2020? Is this worth it? It seems that Trump is destroying the Republican party more than he's destroying the system.
The Democrats will lose Senate seats in 2018.
President Trump will win the general election in 2020.
The Republican establishment is damaging the Republican party.
Chris
05-16-2017, 04:29 PM
He's an A++ in causing mayhem and fuckery within the system, and that's all that matters to me at this point.
If he's promised that I'd've voted for him. :D
suds00
05-16-2017, 04:42 PM
all those classifications overlap and each one should not be a seperate grade.
decedent
05-16-2017, 05:10 PM
The Democrats will lose Senate seats in 2018.
President Trump will win the general election in 2020.
With only 38% of Americans approving of the presidency and 48% of Americans wanting him impeached, the only seat Trump can win will be at a raffle.
The Republican establishment is damaging the Republican party.
The people you voted for in the 90s and 2000s are causing damage? I doubt it's as much damage as the guy you voted for last November. The GOP will never recover from this.
This is not like Watergate. The voters may never trust an outsider in the White House again.
decedent
05-16-2017, 05:14 PM
So you want a king, not a president.
Demanding loyalty from intelligence agencies
Cracking down on anti-government protests
Censoring the press
Impeding justice
Promoting propaganda
Threatening rivals
Aiding hostile nations
Increasing government opacity
MisterVeritis
05-16-2017, 05:14 PM
With only 38% of Americans approving of the presidency and 48% of Americans wanting him impeached, the only seat Trump can win will be at a raffle.
My prediction stands.
The Republican establishment is damaging the Republican party.
The people you voted for in the 90s and 2000s are causing damage? I doubt it's as much damage as the guy you voted for last November. The GOP will never recover from this.
I did not vote for anybody in the Republican establishment.
This is not like Watergate. The voters may never trust an outsider in the White House again.
You are delusional.
decedent
05-16-2017, 05:16 PM
My prediction stands.
The Republican establishment is damaging the Republican party.
I did not vote for anybody in the Republican establishment.
You are delusional.
So you didn't vote republican in the 90s and 2000s?
You're in denial.
pjohns
05-16-2017, 06:16 PM
He needs to end this special prosecutor BS.
Absolutely!
In the abstract, a special prosecutor seems benign enough: After all, he could either say yea or nay, depending upon what he found (or did not find).
In the real world, however, special prosecutors are useful only if they (supposedly) find something, so that they may fulfill their mission of prosecuting.
So it is a fair bet that as special prosecutor would "find" something.
MisterVeritis
05-16-2017, 06:18 PM
So you didn't vote republican in the 90s and 2000s?
You're in denial.
Mo Brooks is not an establishment Republican. I also voted for Sessions the last time he was up for reelection. I don't like Shelby and did not vote for him.
pjohns
05-16-2017, 06:28 PM
With...48% of Americans wanting [Donald Trump] impeached, the only seat Trump can win will be at a raffle.
For starters, you apparently confuse impeachment with removal from office.
They are not the same thing.
Remember, Bill Clinton was once impeached.
But he was never remover from office.
More importantly, the facts that (1) we are now living in a hyper-partisan atmosphere; and (2) Democrats outnumber Republicans in this country, combine to suggest that it is not at all astounding that 48 percent of Americans wish to see President Trump impeached.
Or even removed from office.
This is not like Watergate. The voters may never trust an outsider in the White House again.
The principal concern is not that "[t]he voters" might reject an outsider in the future.
Rather, it is simply that The Establishment--both Democratic and Republican--is virtually apoplectic about an outsider's winning the White House; and is working behind the scenes to secure his removal therefrom.
decedent
05-16-2017, 08:30 PM
For starters, you apparently confuse impeachment with removal from office.
They are not the same thing.
Remember, Bill Clinton was once impeached.
But he was never remover from office.
More importantly, the facts that (1) we are now living in a hyper-partisan atmosphere; and (2) Democrats outnumber Republicans in this country, combine to suggest that it is not at all astounding that 48 percent of Americans wish to see President Trump impeached.
Or even removed from office.
There's a huge difference between telling a quasi-lie to a grand jury and engaging in repeated treasonous actions that jeopardize democracy.
Imagine a citizen with a clean record telling a half truth to a grand jury. He'd probably get a slap on the wrist.
Imaging a citizen giving strategic military secrets to a hostile foreign power. If it's considered treason, he could pay the ultimate price.
If Trump doesn't resign, as Nixon did, he'll face impeachment. Even if Trump refuses to cooperate, citing executive privilege, the VP can start the process for removal.
The principal concern is not that "[t]he voters" might reject an outsider in the future.
Rather, it is simply that The Establishment--both Democratic and Republican--is virtually apoplectic about an outsider's winning the White House; and is working behind the scenes to secure his removal therefrom.
Many Republicans think that only an outsider can reduce the corruption, size, and power of Washington. They think anyone else will offer more of the same. As an outsider, Trump's lack of political knowledge and skill has prevented him from making much change, causing more of the same -- including a $1 trillion more in spending, cronyism, and needless laws. To get change, it's best to go with a politician, somebody who knows politics, or somebody with diplomacy skills and can get cooperation between branches and parties.
MisterVeritis
05-16-2017, 08:39 PM
There's a huge difference between telling a quasi-lie to a grand jury and engaging in repeated treasonous actions that jeopardize democracy.
Imagine a citizen with a clean record telling a half truth to a grand jury. He'd probably get a slap on the wrist.
Imaging a citizen giving strategic military secrets to a hostile foreign power. If it's considered treason, he could pay the ultimate price.
If Trump doesn't resign, as Nixon did, he'll face impeachment. Even if Trump refuses to cooperate, citing executive privilege, the VP can start the process for removal.
Many Republicans think that only an outsider can reduce the corruption, size, and power of Washington. They think anyone else will offer more of the same. As an outsider, Trump's lack of political knowledge and skill has prevented him from making much change, causing more of the same -- including a $1 trillion more in spending, cronyism, and needless laws. To get change, it's best to go with a politician, somebody who knows politics, or somebody with diplomacy skills and can get cooperation between branches and parties.
This makes me smile. This is full blown goofy.
Tahuyaman
05-16-2017, 09:28 PM
In judging the presidency of Donald Trump, it is quite easy to be unfair. There are, after all, so many different categories that deserve analysis; and they really should not be confused.
Here are some of the more important ones:
Personality. Frankly, Donald Trump is a bit too brash and in-your-face to suit my preference. The late Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were much more to my liking, in that regard. Grade: D
Temperament. Donald Trump’s temperament is a bit further to the hot end of the scale than I would prefer. Grade: C-
Political Philosophy. Unfortunately, the man has no discernible political philosophy that is consistent. Grade: C-
Governance. He has, however, governed much as I would like: more like a true conservative than like the New York liberal that he once seemed to be. Grade: A-
Decisiveness. He has truly been decisive. His sending 59 missiles toward Syria (58 of which hit their targets), and an enormous bomb (the MOAB) to Afghanistan, speak to this fact. (His next real test will be Kim Jung-un, in North Korea.) Grade: A-
Political Correctness. Thankfully, he totally rejects it. Grade: A
The first three items, in my opinion, work strongly against the man.
However, the last three more than make up for any other shortcomings, as far as I am concerned.
For his policy initiatives and ideas on the major issues I give him a B.
On governing style I give him a D.
Tahuyaman
05-16-2017, 09:30 PM
There's a huge difference between telling a quasi-lie to a grand jury and engaging in repeated treasonous actions that jeopardize democracy.
Imagine a citizen with a clean record telling a half truth to a grand jury. He'd probably get a slap on the wrist.
Imaging a citizen giving strategic military secrets to a hostile foreign power. If it's considered treason, he could pay the ultimate price.
If Trump doesn't resign, as Nixon did, he'll face impeachment. Even if Trump refuses to cooperate, citing executive privilege, the VP can start the process for removal.
Many Republicans think that only an outsider can reduce the corruption, size, and power of Washington. They think anyone else will offer more of the same. As an outsider, Trump's lack of political knowledge and skill has prevented him from making much change, causing more of the same -- including a $1 trillion more in spending, cronyism, and needless laws. To get change, it's best to go with a politician, somebody who knows politics, or somebody with diplomacy skills and can get cooperation between branches and parties.
Hacks are entertaining.
Kalkin
05-16-2017, 10:03 PM
Trump is a win/win. If he succeeds, democrats despair. If he fails, both sides of the spectrum lose even more faith in the federal government to solve problems.
Casper
05-16-2017, 10:15 PM
Trump is a win/win. If he succeeds, democrats despair. If he fails, both sides of the spectrum lose even more faith in the federal government to solve problems.
He won't win, that ship has already sailed, if by some miracle he managed to make to the end of the year in office he would be a lame duck President. Now, if he fails, ok, and the Congress deals him out of the Oval Office the confidence in the government with most Americans would rise, since they would then know that the leaders in Washington still value the Nation over a Politician. Trump has attacked the Press, has not worked out well has it, he has attacked every US Intelligence Agency, only a complete fool would think that will work out in his favor, and he has embarrassed the GOP, which in the end will hold trump accountable, me thinks that trump is on borrowed time and has a rough future ahead.
On the bright side his wife will not have to make any more excuses for not living in the Whitehouse with the Donald.
decedent
05-16-2017, 10:17 PM
Hacks are entertaining.
43,452
Trump is a win/win. If he succeeds, democrats despair. If he fails, both sides of the spectrum lose even more faith in the federal government to solve problems.
Like I said, Trump was a revenge vote.
Trump will single-handedly give Democrats control of the federal government on a silver platter. You should have picked a politician. Half of the GOP primary candidates weren't.
Dr. Who
05-16-2017, 10:23 PM
I think both parties are beyond corrupt and can't be saved. I don't care what happens to either party.
That's fine, you are young so if it all goes to hell in a handbasket, you have time to recoup your losses. Many people are past that point of no return so if it all falls apart - financial disaster, they will never be able to get back to solvency.
Many people who worked 30 to 40 years to ensure their futures may end their lives in abject poverty. I guess that's what you call collateral damage.
Kalkin
05-16-2017, 10:28 PM
He won't win, that ship has already sailed,
In many ways, he has already won. He kept hillary out of the White House, He put a judge on the Supreme Court, and I left the healthcare insurance line on my tax return blank. He could drop dead tomorrow and I'd consider his term a success.
if by some miracle he managed to make to the end of the year in office he would be a lame duck President.
Speculation is often more fantasy than fact, but feel free to indulge yourself.
Now, if he fails, ok, and the Congress deals him out of the Oval Office the confidence in the government with most Americans would rise, since they would then know that the leaders in Washington still value the Nation over a Politician. Trump has attacked the Press, has not worked out well has it, he has attacked every US Intelligence Agency, only a complete fool would think that will work out in his favor, and he has embarrassed the GOP, which in the end will hold trump accountable, me thinks that trump is on borrowed time and has a rough future ahead.
On the bright side his wife will not have to make any more excuses for not living in the Whitehouse with the Donald.
The best part is, you guys just don't understand how he's operating. You see chaos and inexperience, I see calculated manipulation and steady progress. He won the presidency doing this, yet it still eludes you..
Kalkin
05-16-2017, 10:30 PM
Trump will single-handedly give Democrats control of the federal government on a silver platter.
He's got a long way to go to even come close to the decimation of the democrat party done by obama.
You should have picked a politician. Half of the GOP primary candidates weren't.
You did pick a politician. How'd that work out for you?
Tahuyaman
05-16-2017, 10:40 PM
He won't win, that ship has already sailed, if by some miracle he managed to make to the end of the year in office he would be a lame duck President. Now, if he fails, ok, and the Congress deals him out of the Oval Office the confidence in the government with most Americans would rise, since they would then know that the leaders in Washington still value the Nation over a Politician. Trump has attacked the Press, has not worked out well has it, he has attacked every US Intelligence Agency, only a complete fool would think that will work out in his favor, and he has embarrassed the GOP, which in the end will hold trump accountable, me thinks that trump is on borrowed time and has a rough future ahead.
On the bright side his wife will not have to make any more excuses for not living in the Whitehouse with the Donald.
You guys are getting more comical by the minute.
The Xl
05-16-2017, 10:49 PM
That's fine, you are young so if it all goes to hell in a handbasket, you have time to recoup your losses. Many people are past that point of no return so if it all falls apart - financial disaster, they will never be able to get back to solvency.
Many people who worked 30 to 40 years to ensure their futures may end their lives in abject poverty. I guess that's what you call collateral damage.
You don't get it. Trump isn't saint, but the political class wasn't saving those people. The political class is poison, all they care about is their donor stringpullers. They're the reason why the country is in the shape that it's in.
decedent
05-16-2017, 10:54 PM
He's got a long way to go to even come close to the decimation of the democrat party done by obama.
You did pick a politician. How'd that work out for you?
Was Obama the best post-war President? The employment rate when he left speaks for itself. I wish he taxed corporations more because they saw record profits under his watch. Oh well.
Tahuyaman
05-16-2017, 11:18 PM
Was Obama the best post-war President?...
Was that a serious question?
decedent
05-16-2017, 11:28 PM
Was that a serious question?
To expound on my reply: Obama was truly a great President, and is amazingly popular... but I am genuinely glad Trump is President.
MisterVeritis
05-16-2017, 11:37 PM
To expound on my reply: Obama was truly a great President, and is amazingly popular... but I am genuinely glad Trump is President.
me too.
Green Arrow
05-16-2017, 11:54 PM
You don't get it. Trump isn't saint, but the political class wasn't saving those people. The political class is poison, all they care about is their donor stringpullers. They're the reason why the country is in the shape that it's in.
Donor stringpullers like Donald Trump?
Dr. Who
05-16-2017, 11:57 PM
You don't get it. Trump isn't saint, but the political class wasn't saving those people. The political class is poison, all they care about is their donor stringpullers. They're the reason why the country is in the shape that it's in.
I don't disagree, but attempting to collapse the system by voting for someone who is unsuitable except as an agent for destruction, will undoubtedly bring about change, but potentially at great cost and possibly not the change that you want. Nature abhors a vacuum. You have no idea what will fill it.
The Xl
05-17-2017, 12:40 AM
Donor stringpullers like Donald Trump?
He can both be an ex stringpuller and currently at odds with the big times stringpullers that control the country currently.
Kalkin
05-17-2017, 01:03 AM
Was Obama the best post-war President?
No.
The employment rate when he left speaks for itself.
It certainly speaks to the cyclical economy. Obama presided over the slowest recovery on record.
I wish he taxed corporations more because they saw record profits under his watch. Oh well.
I wish he didn't add 10 trillion to the national debt, too. Sounds like he fxcked up all over the place. Oh well.
pjohns
05-17-2017, 08:55 AM
Why is decisiveness so important when it completely lacks discernment? Decisiveness is important but without discernment, it's just as dangerous as indecisiveness.
I would much rather accept a wrong decision than to be forced to accept the president's just ignoring the problem--any problem--and kicking the can down the road.
Fortunately, President Trump's actions as regarding Syria and Afghanistan (cited previously) have been the right ones, in my opinion.
Tahuyaman
05-17-2017, 09:01 AM
To expound on my reply: Obama was truly a great President, and is amazingly popular... but I am genuinely glad Trump is President.
Lol..... Obama a "truly great president"..... Hilarious.
Common
05-17-2017, 09:07 AM
In judging the presidency of Donald Trump, it is quite easy to be unfair. There are, after all, so many different categories that deserve analysis; and they really should not be confused.
Here are some of the more important ones:
Personality. Frankly, Donald Trump is a bit too brash and in-your-face to suit my preference. The late Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were much more to my liking, in that regard. Grade: D
Temperament. Donald Trump’s temperament is a bit further to the hot end of the scale than I would prefer. Grade: C-
Political Philosophy. Unfortunately, the man has no discernible political philosophy that is consistent. Grade: C-
Governance. He has, however, governed much as I would like: more like a true conservative than like the New York liberal that he once seemed to be. Grade: A-
Decisiveness. He has truly been decisive. His sending 59 missiles toward Syria (58 of which hit their targets), and an enormous bomb (the MOAB) to Afghanistan, speak to this fact. (His next real test will be Kim Jung-un, in North Korea.) Grade: A-
Political Correctness. Thankfully, he totally rejects it. Grade: A
The first three items, in my opinion, work strongly against the man.
However, the last three more than make up for any other shortcomings, as far as I am concerned.
Thats fairly accurate, I would like to add that he runs his mouth to much especially on twitter and hes had more success than the left wing press will ever give him credit for, by the time the left wakes up trump would have done alot of damage to obama and his admin.
Hes been very successful with illegal immigration border crossings are down 76% and deportations are up considerablyl. Hes systematically dismantling Obama regulatory exec orders and environmental. Hes appointed one Scotus and he is appointing lots of judges. However, his biggest achievement has been to relegate the democrat party to babbling, whining, drooling flaming loons that is hilarious to watch.
decedent
05-17-2017, 09:31 AM
It certainly speaks to the cyclical economy. Obama presided over the slowest recovery on record.
The slowest recovery from the deepest recession in history.
I wish he didn't add 10 trillion to the national debt, too. Sounds like he fxcked up all over the place. Oh well.
At least Obama didn't almost double the debt like Trickle-Down Reagan. Trump is also giving tax cuts to the rich. We'll see how that turns out.
decedent
05-17-2017, 09:41 AM
Lol..... Obama a "truly great president"..... Hilarious.
You obviously live in a bubble. Most Americans think Obama is was a good President.
Remember when the President was respected by the world?
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2015/11/000_Par8329986-e1447590774622.jpg
Tahuyaman
05-17-2017, 10:01 AM
You obviously live in a bubble. Most Americans think Obama is was a good President.
Remember when the President was respected by the world?
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2015/11/000_Par8329986-e1447590774622.jpg
Most people liked him personally, but thought that he was taking the country in the wrong direction.
That's why the Democrats lost a historic number of seats across the nation.
Kalkin
05-17-2017, 10:05 AM
Thats fairly accurate, I would like to add that he runs his mouth to much especially on twitter and hes had more success than the left wing press will ever give him credit for, by the time the left wakes up trump would have done alot of damage to obama and his admin.
Hes been very successful with illegal immigration border crossings are down 76% and deportations are up considerablyl. Hes systematically dismantling Obama regulatory exec orders and environmental. Hes appointed one Scotus and he is appointing lots of judges. However, his biggest achievement has been to relegate the democrat party to babbling, whining, drooling flaming loons that is hilarious to watch.
All true.
Kalkin
05-17-2017, 10:13 AM
The slowest recovery from the deepest recession in history.
Depression is greater than recession. We recovered from the great depression faster. Face the truth, a community organizer was not qualified to regulate a capitalist economy.
At least Obama didn't almost double the debt like Trickle-Down Reagan. Trump is also giving tax cuts to the rich. We'll see how that turns out.
Reagan oversaw about 1.2 trillion in added debt over two terms, obama about 9 trillion. Spin that.
Btw, obama did nearly double the debt. Numbers don't lie.
Kalkin
05-17-2017, 10:17 AM
You obviously live in a bubble. Most Americans think Obama is was a good President.
Remember when the President was respected by the world?
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2015/11/000_Par8329986-e1447590774622.jpg
Remember when he said the 2014 and 2016 elections were referendums on his policies? Got beat down both times. And don't forget the historical shellacking of 2010. Being a media darling doesn't mean much in the real world of politics, apparently.
decedent
05-17-2017, 10:34 AM
Remember when he said the 2014 and 2016 elections were referendums on his policies? Got beat down both times. And don't forget the historical shellacking of 2010. Being a media darling doesn't mean much in the real world of politics, apparently.
Obama's 60% job approval rating says otherwise. (Trump's is 39%).
Democrats have a weak ground game. That has nothing to do with Obama.
Green Arrow
05-17-2017, 10:56 AM
I would much rather accept a wrong decision than to be forced to accept the president's just ignoring the problem--any problem--and kicking the can down the road.
Fortunately, President Trump's actions as regarding Syria and Afghanistan (cited previously) have been the right ones, in my opinion.
Based on what, exactly?
Cletus
05-17-2017, 11:06 AM
You obviously live in a bubble. Most Americans think Obama is was a good President.
Remember when the President was respected by the world?
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2015/11/000_Par8329986-e1447590774622.jpg
World leaders openly laughed at Obama.
The only thing they respected about him was the office he held.
pjohns
05-17-2017, 11:07 AM
Was Obama the best post-war President? The employment rate when he left speaks for itself.
I believe that the "employment rate"--your words--was 62.9 percent when he left office. (In other words, about three out of every eight working-age Americans were not employed.)
Perhaps you really mean the unemployment rate.
But that can be quite misleading, since it does not include discouraged workers, who are no longer seeking employment.
Moreover, one should be careful to avoid the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (at the same time as it, therefore because of it).
It is really hard to see what Barack Obama did to encourage employment in the US...
pjohns
05-17-2017, 11:13 AM
Based on what, exactly?
Based upon my opinion.
If you view matters differently, well, then we will just have to agree to disagree...
pjohns
05-17-2017, 11:28 AM
Obama's 60% job approval rating says otherwise.
Did you cherry pick that number?
Gallup shows an average, among polls, of only 47.9 percent approval: http://www.gallup.com/poll/202742/obama-averages-job-approval-president.aspx
Very early in the article, these words pop out:
"Barack Obama finished his tenure as president with a 47.9% average job approval rating. He ranks below eight presidents and ahead of only three -- Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter and Harry Truman -- in Gallup's polling history."
Kalkin
05-17-2017, 11:35 AM
Obama's 60% job approval rating says otherwise. (Trump's is 39%).
Too bad approval ratings don't appoint judges, aye?
Democrats have a weak ground game. That has nothing to do with Obama.
He claimed, multiple times, that the last election was a referendum on his policies. He used the power of his office to campaign for hillary. He failed, and your multitudes of excuses only serve to further illustrate that fact.
decedent
05-17-2017, 11:41 AM
Did you cherry pick that number?
Gallup shows an average, among polls, of only 47.9 percent approval: http://www.gallup.com/poll/202742/obama-averages-job-approval-president.aspx
Very early in the article, these words pop out:
59% pops out for me.
Tahuyaman
05-17-2017, 03:12 PM
Obama's 60% job approval rating says otherwise. (Trump's is 39%).
Democrats have a weak ground game. That has nothing to do with Obama.
Did you cherry pick that number?
Gallup shows an average, among polls, of only 47.9 percent approval: http://www.gallup.com/poll/202742/obama-averages-job-approval-president.aspx
Very early in the article, these words pop out:
"Barack Obama finished his tenure as president with a 47.9% average job approval rating. He ranks below eight presidents and ahead of only three -- Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter and Harry Truman -- in Gallup's polling history."
By the end of next year decedent will have Obama's final approval rating hovering close to the 80% mark. Never mind the fact that that his policy ideas were so effective he led the Democrats to historic losses nation wide.
decedent
05-17-2017, 03:19 PM
By the end of next year @decedent (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1267) will have Obama's final approval rating hovering close to the 80% mark. Never mind the fact that that his policy ideas were so effective he led the Democrats to historic losses nation wide.
Pure fabrication. All of it. Carry on.
Tahuyaman
05-17-2017, 03:21 PM
Pure fabrication. All of it. Carry on.
It's as much of a fabrication as your claim of a 60% approval rating.
decedent
05-17-2017, 03:26 PM
It's as much of a fabrication as your claim of a 60% approval rating.
Obama leaving office at 60% approval rating (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/01/18/Obama-leaving-office-at-60-approval-rating/4481484744398/)
Now attack the source.
Tahuyaman
05-17-2017, 04:03 PM
Obama leaving office at 60% approval rating (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/01/18/Obama-leaving-office-at-60-approval-rating/4481484744398/)
Now attack the source.
I can conduct a poll where he would receive 100% approval ratings for his entire eight years.
The fact remains that his policy ideas led to historic losses for his party. That would not have happened if he was even close to being as popular as you claim.
Nearly every poll taken during his tenure reflected that most people believed he was taking the country in the wrong direction.
decedent
05-17-2017, 04:08 PM
I can conduct a poll where he would receive 100% approval ratings for his entire eight years.
The fact remains that his policy ideas led to historic losses for his party. That would not have happened if he was even close to being as popular as you claim.
Nearly every poll taken during his tenure reflected that most people believed he was taking the country in the wrong direction.
Completely detached from reality.
Tahuyaman
05-17-2017, 04:17 PM
I can conduct a poll where he would receive 100% approval ratings for his entire eight years.
The fact remains that his policy ideas led to historic losses for his party. That would not have happened if he was even close to being as popular as you claim.
Nearly every poll taken during his tenure reflected that most people believed he was taking the country in the wrong direction.
Completely detached from reality.
Tell me about all the gains made by Democrats during Obama's tenure as POTUS?
pjohns
05-18-2017, 11:35 AM
59% pops out for me.
I see you were quite willing to cut me off in mid-sentence, in order to try to make your point...
pjohns
05-18-2017, 11:45 AM
Obama leaving office at 60% approval rating (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/01/18/Obama-leaving-office-at-60-approval-rating/4481484744398/)
Now attack the source.
No need to "attack" the source.
I would simply note that this is according to a single poll--to be specific, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll--and, although I find nothing especially objectionable about that particular poll, I would prefer to go with an average of polls.
To choose the one poll that best suits one's preferred narrative is to fall into a logical trap: It is the fallacy known as special pleading.
Chris
05-18-2017, 12:06 PM
Obama leaving office at 60% approval rating (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/01/18/Obama-leaving-office-at-60-approval-rating/4481484744398/)
Now attack the source.
Or appeal to popularity? @ https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/40/Appeal-to-Popularity
Safety
05-18-2017, 12:18 PM
Lawl
Chris
05-18-2017, 12:25 PM
Lawl
The horse laugh. (Look it up.)
https://i.snag.gy/ZMB70x.jpg
Safety
05-18-2017, 12:32 PM
The horse laugh. (Look it up.)
https://i.snag.gy/ZMB70x.jpg
He must have read the same thing I did.
pjohns
05-20-2017, 05:03 PM
What if the Democrats take the Senate in 2018, then win the general in 2020?
If this is what you think is likely to happen, then please give me an analytical breakdown of the seats that you think the Democrats are likely to take from Republicans; plus an analytical breakdown of the seats that you think Republicans are likely to take from Democrats; and then subtract the latter from the former.
A tendentious breakdown will not do.
Neither will a hopeful breakdown.
Note: I would suggest that you consult such political analysts as Charlie Cook, Stuart Rothenberg, and/or Larry Sabato before responding.
Further note: It is way too far out to be calling the presidential election of 2020--even if we knew just who the Democratic candidate would be.
donttread
05-20-2017, 05:27 PM
In judging the presidency of Donald Trump, it is quite easy to be unfair. There are, after all, so many different categories that deserve analysis; and they really should not be confused.
Here are some of the more important ones:
Personality. Frankly, Donald Trump is a bit too brash and in-your-face to suit my preference. The late Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were much more to my liking, in that regard. Grade: D
Temperament. Donald Trump’s temperament is a bit further to the hot end of the scale than I would prefer. Grade: C-
Political Philosophy. Unfortunately, the man has no discernible political philosophy that is consistent. Grade: C-
Governance. He has, however, governed much as I would like: more like a true conservative than like the New York liberal that he once seemed to be. Grade: A-
Decisiveness. He has truly been decisive. His sending 59 missiles toward Syria (58 of which hit their targets), and an enormous bomb (the MOAB) to Afghanistan, speak to this fact. (His next real test will be Kim Jung-un, in North Korea.) Grade: A-
Political Correctness. Thankfully, he totally rejects it. Grade: A
The first three items, in my opinion, work strongly against the man.
However, the last three more than make up for any other shortcomings, as far as I am concerned.
There are some positive signs but attacking a Syrian government air base was NOT one of them. I'm hopeful for this regime , but at the same time afraid he'll turn out to be just another power hungry Donekephant only wilth ADD.
pjohns
05-20-2017, 06:12 PM
There are some positive signs but attacking a Syrian government air base was NOT one of them.
He may, indeed, be criticized in this regard, I think--but not for doing too much; rather, for doing too little.Then-President Obama had his famous "red line" in 2013, as regarding Syria--which Assad promptly crossed--and Obama responded by doing nothing.
Trump, now, has done something--but Assad remains firmly ensconced in office.
Ethereal
05-20-2017, 06:14 PM
...but Assad remains firmly ensconced in office.
And if we're lucky, he'll remain there for the foreseeable future. Removing him would be madness.
Green Arrow
05-20-2017, 07:58 PM
Trump, now, has done something--but Assad remains firmly ensconced in office.
As he should be.
pjohns
05-21-2017, 02:40 PM
And if we're lucky, [Assad will] remain [in office in Syria] for the foreseeable future. Removing him would be madness.
Only if you believe in The Binary Theory: i.e. that it must be either Assad or ISIS in charge...
AZ Jim
05-21-2017, 04:00 PM
You don't get it. Trump isn't saint, but the political class wasn't saving those people. The political class is poison, all they care about is their donor stringpullers. They're the reason why the country is in the shape that it's in.You have much to learn sonny.
Green Arrow
05-21-2017, 04:48 PM
Only if you believe in The Binary Theory: i.e. that it must be either Assad or ISIS in charge...
It's not a theory, it's now a proven fact that if we depose a dictator in the ME a power vacuum will be created that terrorist groups - whether that's al Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIS, or some other group - will swoop in to fill it.
Green Arrow
05-21-2017, 04:49 PM
You have much to learn sonny.
Then how about you put your superior knowledge out there for once and educate him, instead of constantly pontificating about the stupid children.
Provide something valuable that contributes to discussion.
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