Turkish Thugs Attack Protesters In DC, Beat Women and Old Men

[Ethereal]

Turkish president’s security team reportedly in violent brawl with protesters in DC (http://nypost.com/2017/05/16/violent-clash-outside-turkish-embassy-in-dc-leaves-several-bloodied/)

Security for the Turkish president could be seen on video Tuesday attacking protesters outside of the DC home of the Turkish ambassador.

The brawl erupted when Turkish President Recep Erdogan’s security detail encountered demonstrators carrying the flag of the Kurdish PYD party outside the residence, the Guardian reported.

Video shows men in suits, believed to be Erdogan’s bodyguards, pummeling the protesters and kicking some in the head as DC police try to stop them.

[...]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jbhm7FCQL8

The video shows the initial altercation in the middle ground between the two demonstrations. The police break it up and everyone goes back to their respective sides. Then, at around twenty-eight seconds, the Turkish demonstrators, including members of Erdogan's security detail, rush through the police line and begin attacking and beating everyone in sight, including women and old men. The idea that a foreign security service can beat up people on American soil, during a political demonstration, no less, is sickening and enraging, especially when they belong to a cadre of fascists and genocide deniers. Turkey's government is being run by a thug and a despot and his supporters are like the Nazis of the Middle East. But it's all being swept under the rug by the US government and the media because Turkey is a member of NATO.

[IMPress Polly]

Why again was ours the only Western government to congratulate Erdogan on his successful coup?

We seem to have a very perplexing relationship to Turkey these days that I think my guy Matt summed up pretty well: "A little strained in regards to Erdogan. Trump obviously likes him but has probably been told that the Kurds are the more effective fighters against ISIS. Hard to tell, honestly. The military prefers the Kurds while Trump admires Erdogan." I think that sums it up. Trump has a sick fascination with tyrants that seems less opportunistic than that of the Democrats and more actually ideological in nature.

Yeah, this is despicable. It really is. I'm solidly in the PYD's camp.

[Adelaide]

Rather than being pat on the back, Erdogan and his representatives should have been barred from the country. Close the embassy and use a third party. I guess that's probably pretty extreme and we can't do that to every crooked regime.

[IMPress Polly]

I'm not opposed to that idea. My personal opinion is that, if we must have NATO (and we really shouldn't), then at least Turkey should be expelled from it after his little coup. I mean at least we could cut off military aid or something, considering that they're using their military to undermine our efforts against ISIS by attacking the Kurdish People's Protection Units and also to repress their own people.

[Mister D]

Rather than being pat on the back, Erdogan and his representatives should have been barred from the country. Close the embassy and use a third party. I guess that's probably pretty extreme and we can't do that to every crooked regime.
Since when have we let such concerns take priority over strategic concerns?

[IMPress Polly]

In what way are they even aiding our "strategic concerns" anymore? Their so-called Free Syrian Army (that's the one Turkey controlled in the Syrian "civil" war) was basically destroyed at Aleppo. Now they really just seem to be attacking the Kurds.

[Mechanic]

As Turks are not black they can not be thugs! Isn't that the definition of a thug???, a black man.

[Mister D]

In what way are they even aiding our "strategic concerns" anymore? Their so-called Free Syrian Army (that's the one Turkey controlled in the Syrian "civil" war) was basically destroyed at Aleppo. Now they really just seem to be attacking the Kurds.
Obviously, US planners consider Turkey and our relationship with Turkey to be important. Why that is and whether or not you agree is irrelevant. That perception exists. Again, since when have we let such concerns take priority over strategic concerns? The answer never. I'm not sure why anyone would expect the US state to suddenly behave differently. It demonstrates remarkable naivety.

[Ethereal]

Why again was ours the only Western government to congratulate Erdogan on his successful coup?

We seem to have a very perplexing relationship to Turkey these days that I think my guy Matt summed up pretty well: "A little strained in regards to Erdogan. Trump obviously likes him but has probably been told that the Kurds are the more effective fighters against ISIS. Hard to tell, honestly. The military prefers the Kurds while Trump admires Erdogan." I think that sums it up. Trump has a sick fascination with tyrants that seems less opportunistic than that of the Democrats and more actually ideological in nature.

Yeah, this is despicable. It really is. I'm solidly in the PYD's camp.
Turkey is in a strategically valuable location vis-a-vis the US empire and they are home to an important American airbase at Incirlik. Naturally, that trumps all human rights concerns in the minds of the imperialists who run the US government. Their relationship with Turkey and Saudi Arabia are 100% proof (as if any is needed) that the US government's foreign policy is not guided at all by a concern for human rights and democracy. It's all about domination. That is why their constant attacks on Russia, for example, ring so pathetically hollow. Could you imagine if members of Putin's security detail broke through a line of police and started beating Polish-American protesters? It would be the international incident of the century. But because this was done by a NATO member, it's ignored and brushed aside. Despicable is an understatement.

[Mister D]

Mind you, I'm not making a judgement. I think the US has traditionally weighed strategic reality with humanitarian, liberal and humanist concerns. The former usually weighs more. That's all I'm saying.

[Ethereal]

Rather than being pat on the back, Erdogan and his representatives should have been barred from the country. Close the embassy and use a third party. I guess that's probably pretty extreme and we can't do that to every crooked regime.
They should be kicked out of NATO, for starters.

[Ethereal]

Since when have we let such concerns take priority over strategic concerns?
Never, of course, but that is what justice would demand.

[Ethereal]

In what way are they even aiding our "strategic concerns" anymore? Their so-called Free Syrian Army (that's the one Turkey controlled in the Syrian "civil" war) was basically destroyed at Aleppo. Now they really just seem to be attacking the Kurds.
By promoting US government hegemony. That is all that matters to the US political class.

[Mister D]

Never, of course, but that is what justice would demand.
If you hate the US government now just wait until it makes "justice" it's primary concern.

[Ethereal]

If you hate the US government now just wait until it makes "justice" it's primary concern.
I have no illusions that they will ever concern themselves with such things in any genuine sense. It's up to people of conscience to bring about the kinds of changes we want to see in the world. Whether that is a realistic aspiration is another matter entirely.

[Mister D]

I have no illusions that they will ever concern themselves with such things in any genuine sense. It's up to people of conscience to bring about the kinds of changes we want to see in the world. Whether that is a realistic aspiration is another matter entirely.
We disagree on the extent to which the West's ideological alibis are genuinely believed in. I do think Western liberals maintain a brand of moralism in their foreign policy and that is best seen in the ideology of human rights. Witness the moralizing that surrounded the war in Iraq and the discussions about Russia on this website today. This reflects a general societal attitude. Granted, this is often betrayed to more concrete interests but that might actually be a good thing. The problem with injecting morality into politics is that it absolutizes conflict. You no longer have political rivals or rivals for power but inhuman, depraved enemies who are essentially evil. If you are against "human rights" you are by definition an enemy of the human race!

[Ethereal]

We disagree on the extent to which the West's ideological alibis are genuinely believed in. I do think Western liberals maintain a brand of moralism in their foreign policy and that is best seen in the ideology of human rights. Witness the moralizing that surrounded the war in Iraq and the discussions about Russia on this website today. This reflects a general societal attitude. Granted, this is often betrayed to more concrete interests but that might actually be a good thing. The problem with injecting morality into politics is that it absolutizes conflict. You no longer have political rivals or rivals for power but inhuman, depraved enemies who are essentially evil. If you are against "human rights" you are by definition an enemy of the human race!

I've always considered them to be phony liberals. They've simply appropriated that term because it sounds better than "unprincipled opportunist". All their clamoring about human rights is a blatant farce and pretext for ulterior motives, namely, the aggrandizement of their cults, euphemistically referred to as "political parties". Because if we trace liberalism back to its roots, especially in an American context, we see a far more restrained foreign policy, both in theory and practice. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc. all rejected the idea that the US government should be used to export morality to foreign countries. I've been reading the book Six Frigates lately, which describes the founding of the US Navy under Washington, Adams, and Jefferson, and the one thing that strikes me about it is how restrained and practical it all was. Rarely, if ever, do you see political or military leaders justifying the use of America's nascent Navy with highfalutin odes to human rights and democracy. It's all practical, i.e., protecting trade routes, demonstrating American independence to European powers, obtaining diplomatic leverage, etc. As an aside, I think you would like this book. It's a really gritty history, very interesting.

Link: https://www.amazon.com/Six-Frigates-Epic-History-Founding/dp/039333032X

[Tahuyaman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jbhm7FCQL8

The video shows the initial altercation in the middle ground between the two demonstrations. The police break it up and everyone goes back to their respective sides. Then, at around twenty-eight seconds, the Turkish demonstrators, including members of Erdogan's security detail, rush through the police line and begin attacking and beating everyone in sight, including women and old men. The idea that a foreign security service can beat up people on American soil, during a political demonstration, no less, is sickening and enraging, especially when they belong to a cadre of fascists and genocide deniers. Turkey's government is being run by a thug and a despot and his supporters are like the Nazis of the Middle East. But it's all being swept under the rug by the US government and the media because Turkey is a member of NATO.


If it's being swept under the rug, why is it all over the broadcast media today?

[Ethereal]

If it's being swept under the rug, why is it all over the broadcast media today?
Compare the coverage and attention this receives to the coverage and attention that Russia receives and you will have your answer.

[Tahuyaman]

Compare the coverage and attention this receives to the coverage and attention that Russia receives and you will have your answer.

The Russia story, as fictitious as it is, is about their supposed impact upon our election process and a make believe relationship with our current president. The media right now is in a frenzied attemp to bring down the Trump administration. That's thier top priority.


The story in Turkey is only about an internal issue in Turkey.



Still, this story has been quite prominent in the American media since it happened. It's not being swept under the rug. The media might even try to find a way to hang this on Trump.

[Mister D]

I've always considered them to be phony liberals. They've simply appropriated that term because it sounds better than "unprincipled opportunist". All their clamoring about human rights is a blatant farce and pretext for ulterior motives, namely, the aggrandizement of their cults, euphemistically referred to as "political parties". Because if we trace liberalism back to its roots, especially in an American context, we see a far more restrained foreign policy, both in theory and practice. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc. all rejected the idea that the US government should be used to export morality to foreign countries. I've been reading the book Six Frigates lately, which describes the founding of the US Navy under Washington, Adams, and Jefferson, and the one thing that strikes me about it is how restrained and practical it all was. Rarely, if ever, do you see political or military leaders justifying the use of America's nascent Navy with highfalutin odes to human rights and democracy. It's all practical, i.e., protecting trade routes, demonstrating American independence to European powers, obtaining diplomatic leverage, etc. As an aside, I think you would like this book. It's a really gritty history, very interesting.
But do we see a more restrained foreign policy? Isn't that easy to say for a state that has the weakest of neighbors? Neighbors, I might add, that the US was aggressive toward from the very beginning. I do tend to think that our wars against the indigenous peoples provide some insight into how America understood itself in the 18th and early 19th Century: a people determined to make themselves masters of a continent that did not yet belong to them. It's only recently that Americans began to see their so called Indian Wars for that they really were: colonial wars of conquest and expansion.

Now as far as making itself felt globally I think the US followed the path of every modern state that had the means to make itself felt. There were a lot of factors involved ranging from the technological to the ideological but that's beyond my time limit for now. Suffice it to say that I think there was a long and genuine period when the US did not like to get itself involved in European affairs. Note I said European affairs not foreign affairs. We agree there. I think that's indisputable but I think the world shrank and continues to making the relative isolation of our founding liberals an impossibility.

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Ethereal]

The Russia story, as fictitious as it is, is about their supposed impact upon our election process and a make believe relationship with our current president. The media right now is in a frenzied attemp to bring down the Trump administration. That's thier top priority.


The story in Turkey is only about an internal issue in Turkey.



Still, this story has been quite prominent in the American media since it happened. It's not being swept under the rug.
So you admit, a fake story is being given more attention than a real one. That is a start. And this story did not take place in Turkey, it took place in America. A foreign security service was beating up US citizens, including women and old men, during a political demonstration. And I don't know what you mean by "quite prominent", but a story like this is going to get coverage, it's just not going to get the kind of coverage that the media dedicates to other stories, some of which even you admit are completely fake.

[Tahuyaman]

You need to understand that right now the US media is all about bringing down the Trump administration. Everything else is a lower priority. Other stories are being reported, but if the story can't be connected to Trump in a negative way, it will be a second priority.

Why should this story get more coverage than it is right now? What would satisfy you?

[Ethereal]

But do we see a more restrained foreign policy? Isn't that easy to say for a state that has the weakest of neighbors? Neighbors, I might add, that the US was aggressive toward from the very beginning. I do tend to think that our wars against the indigenous peoples provide some insight into how America understood itself in the 18th and early 19th Century: a people determined to make themselves masters of a continent that did not yet belong to them. It's only recently that Americans began to see their so called Indian Wars for that they really were: colonial wars of conquest and expansion.

Now as far as making itself felt globally I think the US followed the path of every modern state that had the means to make itself felt. There were a lot of factors involved ranging from the technological to the ideological but that's beyond my time limit for now. Suffice it to say that I think there was a long and genuine period when the US did not like to get itself involved in European affairs. Note I said European affairs not foreign affairs. We agree there. I think that's indisputable but I think the world shrank and continues to making the relative isolation of our founding liberals an impossibility.

Thanks for the recommendation.
There was definitely some aggression there, but I don't think it was by design like it is now. The rapidly expanding population, more than anything, presaged conflict with those neighbors.

As for making itself felt, the US Navy's expansion was rather impressive in terms of their effectiveness and parity with European powers. The US Navy was able to take or destroy two French frigates during the Quasi War, for example. Even early on, we had the ability to go far afield in search for battles, if that's what we had wanted to do. But our founding liberals were largely content to remain practically detached and neutral with regards to all foreign powers, not just Europe. Their repeated clashes with the Barbary Pirates, for example, took them very far from American shores in defense of our shipping interests. Notice I said in defense. It was a purely practical endeavor that concluded as soon as the stated objectives, laid out clearly by the congress, were achieved.

[Ethereal]

You need to understand that right now the US media is all about bringing down the Trump administration. Everything else is a lower priority. Other stories are being reported, but if the story can't be connected to Trump in a negative way, it will be a second priority.

Why should this story get more coverage than it is right now? What would satisfy you?
Intellectual consistency.

If Trump sharing some intelligence with Russia is worthy of endless coverage, then surely a foreign security service beating up Americans on American soil is deserving of comparable coverage.

Not that I actually expect that to happen. I'm merely commenting on the lack of consistency.

[Ethereal]

I would also note, Mister D, that there were divisions in America that presaged what we see happening now with regards to US empire. The northern coastal cities were home to some of the more imperially minded founders (Hamilton, for example) and over time these northern power centers came to predominate in the US government. If we wanted, we could discuss how their mercantile and financial interests combined with their Puritan ideologies to form a particularly aggressive form of absolutism and universalism.

[Tahuyaman]

Well, the story is getting quite a bit of coverage. It's just not getting top billing.

[Ethereal]

Well, the story is getting quite a bit of coverage. It's just not getting top billing.

It will be forgotten by tomorrow, if it hasn't already.

[Tahuyaman]

It will be forgotten by tomorrow, if it hasn't already.

Maybe, maybe not. Why should it receive more coverage than a random police beating in another city?

[Ethereal]

Maybe, maybe not. Why should it receive more coverage than a random police beating in another city?

It wasn't a random police beating. It was a foreign security service beating up Americans on American soil during a political demonstration. If you cannot see the difference, then there is no point in discussing it.

[Ethereal]

Trump shares intelligence with Russians = Worst thing ever

Turkish government attacks and beats US citizens on American soil during a political demonstration = Meh

[Ethereal]

Just wondering where all the outrage is.

I thought foreign countries attacking American democracy was supposed to be a big deal to some.

A foreign government attacking and brutalizing US citizens on American soil during a political demonstration seems like a pretty overt and audacious attack on our democratic institutions.

No doubt, if they had been Putin's bodyguards instead of Erdogan's, the outrage would have been incandescent. Heck, if they had been regular American police beating on protesters, it would have caused a massive uproar. But Ergdogan's bodyguards beating on American protesters on our own soil doesn't fit into the partisan agenda of some, so they just ignore it. Says a lot about their convictions.

[Peter1469]

It is certainly big news here.
If it's being swept under the rug, why is it all over the broadcast media today?

[Ethereal]

I just wish I had been there. Would have cracked a few Turkish jaws.

[Tahuyaman]

It is certainly big news here.


It's big news here too. Certainly not swept under the rug as claimed.

[Tahuyaman]

I just wish I had been there. Would have cracked a few Turkish jaws.


Cigar, is that you?

[Mister D]

There was definitely some aggression there, but I don't think it was by design like it is now. The rapidly expanding population, more than anything, presaged conflict with those neighbors.

As for making itself felt, the US Navy's expansion was rather impressive in terms of their effectiveness and parity with European powers. The US Navy was able to take or destroy two French frigates during the Quasi War, for example. Even early on, we had the ability to go far afield in search for battles, if that's what we had wanted to do. But our founding liberals were largely content to remain practically detached and neutral with regards to all foreign powers, not just Europe. Their repeated clashes with the Barbary Pirates, for example, took them very far from American shores in defense of our shipping interests. Notice I said in defense. It was a purely practical endeavor that concluded as soon as the stated objectives, laid out clearly by the congress, were achieved.
It was no ideological project like "human rights" or "democracy". The triumph of the white race in the west (and I speak this way deliberately because this is exactly how our ancestors saw it) was something more vitalistic and organic. It was more like the growth of an organism.

And why not be content? We had a huge, underpopulated and very weakly defended expanse on our frontier. An expanse we gobbled up unmercifully.

That said, I don't want you to get the wrong impression. This is not a critique of American actions. IMO, our spread across this continent was the stuff of legend.

[Ethereal]

It's big news here too. Certainly not swept under the rug as claimed.
It's just a figure of speech. In comparison to other issues of similar import or content, it is being treated as relatively unimportant. You will not be seeing any congressional investigations, no dramatic press conferences, no wall-to-wall coverage, etc.

[Ethereal]

Cigar, is that you?
You have much more in common with Cigar than I do.

[Ethereal]

It's big news here too. Certainly not swept under the rug as claimed.
No, it is not "big news". "Big news" is the kind of coverage being given to Russian "interference" or Assad's "butchery". This is receiving token coverage because it is exciting and drives ratings, but there will be no concerted effort by the media or the government to bring additional attention to this incident. To the extent that it has any staying power, it can be attributed to grassroots people like myself posting it on social media platforms like forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. The major networks will mention it and then move on to their obsession with Russia.

[Ethereal]

We have one thread about this incident versus how many about Russia? Hundreds to one? And the ostensible reason for the obsession with Russia is their "interference" with American democracy. Seems to me, foreign security personnel attacking and beating US citizens on American soil in the context of a political protest seems like a pretty overt example of interfering with our democratic institutions.

[resister]

As Turks are not black they can not be thugs! Isn't that the definition of a thug???, a black man.
For the most part, sure!

[Mister D]

We have one thread about this incident versus how many about Russia? Hundreds to one? And the ostensible reason for the obsession with Russia is their "interference" with American democracy. Seems to me, foreign security personnel attacking and beating US citizens on American soil in the context of a political protest seems like a pretty overt example of interfering with our democratic institutions.
Aws you said earlier, can imagine if Russians did something like that? They'd be bouncing off the walls.

[Ethereal]

Aws you said earlier, can imagine if Russians did something like that? They'd be bouncing off the walls.
I honestly think their heads would explode.

[Casper]

Does anyone here even know Why the Turks are here, clue they are warning Trump to not sell weapons, which he is ignoring, to the Kurds. The Kurds deserve a place of their own, but the problem is their tactics in Turkey where many are from are right along the lines of other terrorists, shootings and bombs. Trump does not seem to care what one of our NATO partners thinks, but this will not end well for the Kurds, Turks, or Americans, either we are allies or we are not, or should we say Trump is or not. The man is incompetent, hopefully Congress will put an end to him before he does too much damage to recover from.

[Mister D]

I honestly think their heads would explode.
No doubt they would lose their minds. We would have at least half a dozen threads about it by now.

[Common Sense]

The incident was simply just a spill over of a dispute between the Kurds and the Turks.

If Russian Americans were at a Russian embassy and they had a conflict with security, it would be the same. Russia being in the news of late would change the perspective though.

In the end it's no incursion or national incident.

[Tahuyaman]

No, it is not "big news". "Big news" is the kind of coverage being given to Russian "interference" or Assad's "butchery". This is receiving token coverage because it is exciting and drives ratings, but there will be no concerted effort by the media or the government to bring additional attention to this incident. To the extent that it has any staying power, it can be attributed to grassroots people like myself posting it on social media platforms like forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. The major networks will mention it and then move on to their obsession with Russia.


You are mimicking the left wing loons who are living in the alternate universe.

[Ethereal]

Does anyone here even know Why the Turks are here, clue they are warning Trump to not sell weapons, which he is ignoring, to the Kurds. The Kurds deserve a place of their own, but the problem is their tactics in Turkey where many are from are right along the lines of other terrorists, shootings and bombs. Trump does not seem to care what one of our NATO partners thinks, but this will not end well for the Kurds, Turks, or Americans, either we are allies or we are not, or should we say Trump is or not. The man is incompetent, hopefully Congress will put an end to him before he does too much damage to recover from.

The Kurds are up against pure evil. They can hardly be blamed for the tactics they employ.

[Tahuyaman]

You have much more in common with Cigar than I do.

You're the internet tough guy, not me.

[Ethereal]

The incident was simply just a spill over of a dispute between the Kurds and the Turks.

If Russian Americans were at a Russian embassy and they had a conflict with security, it would be the same. Russia being in the news of late would change the perspective though.

In the end it's no incursion or national incident.
This didn't happen at an embassy, it happened in a DC suburb on American soil. US citizens, engaging in a political protest, were attacked and beaten by agents of a foreign government. This is unconscionable. On Reddit, it's one of the top threads and Americans (the real kind, anyway) are palpably outraged, as they should be. The only ones who don't seem to care are the US political class and the major media networks. This is an insult to our national pride and dignity every bit as bad as the allegations being made against Trump, but because it doesn't conform to certain partisan agendas, it will not receive the kind of treatment it deserves.

[Ethereal]

You are mimicking the left wing loons who are living in the alternate universe.
I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion.

[Ethereal]

You're the internet tough guy, not me.

Cigar was reviled for his dishonesty and arrogance, much like you.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion.
Obviously...

[Bethere]

Cigar was reviled for his dishonesty and arrogance, much like you.

Cigar was a fine poster.

[Ethereal]

Obviously...
Do elaborate.

[Ethereal]

Cigar was a fine poster.
lol

[Tahuyaman]

lol

You are no different than an average liberal in that you require complete agreement on all issues. But then even when you get that agreement, you cant accept it.

You are a pompous malcontent who thinks he is better and smarter than everyone else.

There is an ignore function available for your use. I suggest you use it.

[Tahuyaman]

Cigar was a fine poster.poster of what?

[Ethereal]

You are no different than an average liberal in that you require complete agreement on all issues. But then even when you get that agreement, you cant accept it.

You are a pompous malcontent who thinks he is better and smarter than everyone else.

There is an ignore function available for your use. I suggest you use it.
:cry:

[Bethere]

poster of what?


:cry:
You two are a lot alike.

[Ethereal]

You two are a lot alike.
Do tell.

[Tahuyaman]

You two are a lot alike.

Not at all. I don't require 100% agreement on all things.

[Bethere]

Not at all. I don't require 100% agreement on all things.
Yes, you do. You both do.

[Tahuyaman]

Yes, you do. You both do.


You are confused because I disagree with you about 90% of the time. But then any rational person is going to disagree with you 90% of the time.

[Adelaide]

Obviously, US planners consider Turkey and our relationship with Turkey to be important. Why that is and whether or not you agree is irrelevant. That perception exists. Again, since when have we let such concerns take priority over strategic concerns? The answer never. I'm not sure why anyone would expect the US state to suddenly behave differently. It demonstrates remarkable naivety.

You're right - it was my opinion, though. I am allowed to have an opinion that isn't based entirely on the reality that the US will always do what is best for themselves even if it means allowing dictators and dangerous regimes to flourish.

[Bethere]

You are confused because I disagree with you about 90% of the time. But then any rational person is going to disagree with you 90% of the time.
"You are confused. "
"Any rational person."

Always an attack, huh?

[Abby08]

Yes, you do. You both do.

On a lighter note.....I like your avatar, every time I see it, I think of my mom, remember the cartoon, the song the frog sang? My mom played it on the piano all the time..... just wanted to say that......carry on!

[Bethere]

On a lighter note.....I like your avatar, every time I see it, I think of my mom, remember the cartoon, the song the frog sang? My mom played it on the piano all the time..... just wanted to say that......carry on!Overture hit the heights
This is it the night of nights
No more nursing, rehearsing our parts
We know every part by heart
overrture hit the heights
This is it the night of nights
And oh what heights we'll hit
On with the show this is it!

[Abby08]

Overture hit the heights
this is it the night of nights

No more nursing, rehearsing our parts

We know every part by heart

Overture hit the heights

This is it the night of nights
And oh what heights we'll hit
on with the show this is it!

I was talking about the song in that one cartoon, the man finds the singing frog......."hello my baby hello my honey, hello my rag time gal, give me a kiss by wire, baby my hearts on fire, if you refuse me honey you'll lose me, then you'll be left alone oh baby telephone and tell me I'm your own"......haha, I remembered!

But, yeah, that other song opened every Looney tunes cartoon.

[Bethere]

I was talking about the song in that one cartoon, the man finds the singing frog......."hello my baby hello my honey, hello my rag time gal, give me a kiss by wire, baby my hearts on fire, if you refuse me honey you'll lose me, then you'll be left alone oh baby telephone and tell me I'm your own"......haha, I remembered!

But, yeah, that other song opened every Looney tunes cartoon.

Good times!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DMsROL4Kf8QY&ved=0ahUKEwjOrqCG3PnTAhVL6mMKHTeJAu0QyCkIHjAA&usg=AFQjCNEo2IXP6V2eyCDNeIC2P-OJVDvzSA

[Abby08]

Good times!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DMsROL4Kf8QY&ved=0ahUKEwjOrqCG3PnTAhVL6mMKHTeJAu0QyCkIHjAA&usg=AFQjCNEo2IXP6V2eyCDNeIC2P-OJVDvzSA

Not wanting to derail, but, I remember piling into the station wagon and going to town for groceries, when we got home and groceries put away, my mom would sit down at the piano and play a few songs, that song was one of them......just waxing nostalgic....lol.

[Bethere]

Not wanting to derail, but, I remember piling into the station wagon and going to town for groceries, when we got home and groceries put away, my mom would sit down at the piano and play a few songs, that song was one of them......just waxing nostalgic....lol.

I miss my mom, too. Mother's day is a long day for bethere.

[Bo-4]

Trump has no doubt congratulated his murderous thug pal Erdogan by now.

Has Flynn weighed in with an op-ed or anything yet? ;-)

[Bethere]

Trump has no doubt congratulated his murderous thug pal Erdogan by now.

Has Flynn weighed in with an op-ed or anything yet? ;-)

I suspect he is deep into negotiations.

[Bo-4]

I suspect he is deep into negotiations.

Bean spillin' time! :D

[Tahuyaman]

"You are confused. "
"Any rational person."

Always an attack, huh?

Attack? Where?

[Tahuyaman]

Bean spillin' time! :D


You guys sure stand your ground even when there's no evidence to back you up.

[Ethereal]

Not at all. I don't require 100% agreement on all things.

Now THAT is funny.

[Ethereal]

Yes, you do. You both do.
Your penchant for irony is boundless.

[Ethereal]

"You are confused. "
"Any rational person."

Always an attack, huh?
Always playing the victim, huh?

[Ethereal]

Trump has no doubt congratulated his murderous thug pal Erdogan by now.

Has Flynn weighed in with an op-ed or anything yet? ;-)

Did the Obama administration treat Erdogan any differently? I cannot tell if they did. Not everything is partisan. There are many things both parties are guilty of doing. Supporting tyrants is one of those things.

[Bethere]

Originally Posted by Bethere http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2026100#post2026100)
"You are confused. "
"Any rational person."
Always an attack, huh?


Always playing the victim, huh?

Attack? Where?
See how alike you are? The mighty bethere smiles.

[Tahuyaman]

Originally Posted by Bethere http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2026100#post2026100)
"You are confused. "
"Any rational person."
Always an attack, huh?



See how alike you are? The mighty bethere smiles.

How is my comment in any way relative to his? Actually there's more resemblance between you two. You guys are the ones inventing attacks where they don't exist.

[Ethereal]

Originally Posted by Bethere http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2026100#post2026100)
"You are confused. "
"Any rational person."
Always an attack, huh?



See how alike you are? The mighty bethere smiles.
You're just projecting your own bad behavior onto me. It's quite transparent.

[Ethereal]

How is my comment in any way relative to his? Actually there's more resemblance between you two. You guys are the ones inventing attacks where they don't exist.
Bethere and Tahu... peas in a pod.

:smiley:

[Tahuyaman]

It's obvious that those two are quite similar. Eerily similar.

[Bethere]

Bethere and Tahu... peas in a pod.

:smiley:
It's obvious that those two are quite similar. Eerily similar.

Tahuyaman does the pee wee herman bit, too.

You guys could pass as brothers.

[Ethereal]

It's obvious that those two are quite similar. Eerily similar.

Well, let's see.

I'm a longstanding member who has been voted a VIP by my peers and who has over 17,000 thanks.

You and Bethere, on the other hand, are two trolls who have a combined total of 15,000 thanks despite having far more posts than I do.

Really, the results speak for themselves.

[Bethere]

It's obvious that those two are quite similar. Eerily similar.

"I know you are," pee wee would often say. "But what am I?"

[Bethere]

Well, let's see.

I'm a longstanding member who has been voted a VIP by my peers and who has over 17,000 thanks.

You and Bethere, on the other hand, are two trolls who have a combined total of 15,000 thanks despite having far more posts than I do.

Really, the results speak for themselves.

Well let's see, I have more reputation points than both of you heroes put together. I did it in well less than a year.

It's my fellow posters voting for my excellence. And I did it in 11,000 posts, more than 60,000 less than it took you guys.

[Ethereal]

"I know you are," pee wee would often say. "But what am I?"

This is like watching a couple of pigs argue over which one is dirtier. Bizarre yet fascinating.

[Ethereal]

Well let's see, I have more reputation points than both of you heroes put together. I did it in well less than a year.

It's my fellow posters voting for my excellence. And I did it in 11,000 posts, more than 60,000 less than it took you guys.

Points are not an indication of how your peers perceive you, thanks are.

Maybe one day you will realize the difference.

[Bethere]

Points are not an indication of how your peers perceive you, thanks are.

Maybe one day you will realize the difference.
No, my fellow posters gave me the vast majority of my points. You misunderstand the system.

And notice that I am in the top 5 for reputation ALL TIME in less than a year.

I earned 30,888 points outright. The other 800,000+ points were kudos for the master from his fellow posters.

Points 30,888
Points for Posts22,268
Points for uploading Attachments8,620
Average Posts per Day36.00

[Ethereal]

No, my fellow posters gave me the vast majority of my points. You misunderstand the system.

And notice that I am in the top 5 for reputation ALL TIME in less than a year.

I earned 30,888 points outright. The other 800,000+ points were kudos for the master from his fellow posters.

Points 30,888
Points for Posts22,268
Points for uploading Attachments8,620
Average Posts per Day36.00
And, yet, you have an anemic amount of thanks, which is the only straightforward and transparent way of assessing how your peers perceive you. Fancy that.

[Bethere]

And, yet, you have an anemic amount of thanks, which is the only straightforward and transparent way of assessing how your peetrs perceive you. Fancy that.

Anemic? You've three times as many posts.

My popularity bothers you, snowflake?


My rep power: 8230
Your rep power: 4007

[Ethereal]

Anemic? You've three times as many posts.

My popularity bothers you, snowflake?


My rep power: 8230
Your rep power: 4007

Three times as many posts, but five times as many thanks. And a VIP for good measure.

Ouch.

[Abby08]

I don't do it for the thanks and, I couldn't care less about my reputation.....~~~grin~~~

[Bethere]

Three times as many posts, but five times as many thanks. And a VIP for good measure.

Ouch.

You think you can trap me into telling you what I think of the vip club?

Dream on.

[Bethere]

I don't do it for the thanks and, I couldn't care less about my reputation.....~~~grin~~~

Obviously it is a sore spot for ethereal.

[Tahuyaman]

Well, let's see.

I'm a longstanding member who has been voted a VIP by my peers and who has over 17,000 thanks.

You and Bethere, on the other hand, are two trolls who have a combined total of 15,000 thanks despite having far more posts than I do.

Really, the results speak for themselves.


Congratulations. You're a legend in your own mind.

[Ethereal]

Congratulations. You're a legend in your own mind.
Remember when we had a vote to see who was more credible in the eyes of the forum and you lost miserably?

That was funny.

[Ethereal]

I don't do it for the thanks and, I couldn't care less about my reputation.....~~~grin~~~
Neither do I. But I know how much points mean to Bethere, so I like pointing out how I'm kicking his butt in thanks.

[Ethereal]

You think you can trap me into telling you what I think of the vip club?

Dream on.
Nobody cares what you think of the VIPs. You will never become one and your thanks are anemic. Deal with it.

[Ethereal]

Obviously it is a sore spot for ethereal.
Why would it be a sore spot when I have five times the amount of thanks that you do?

[Abby08]

What's the, VIP club?

[Tahuyaman]

Remember when we had a vote to see who was more credible in the eyes of the forum and you lost miserably?

That was funny.

I remember you agreeing to start a poll, then rearranging the wording like a freaking coward.


But but then why would I care about what a bunch of people think who I don't know nor ever want to know? Is that important to you?


Start another poll. Prove your superiority.

[Tahuyaman]

Why would it be a sore spot when I have five times the amount of thanks that you do?


That's important to you, huh?

[Ethereal]

What's the, VIP club?
Certain members are designated as "VIP" members. Their names are highlighted in dark blue. They don't have any additional powers or privileges. It's mostly an honorary title for posters who've demonstrated merit over many years and who post regularly. Their main purpose is to set an example for other posters and to provide the forum moderation and ownership with advice.

[Ethereal]

I remember you agreeing to start a poll, then rearranging the wording like a freaking coward.


But but then why would I care about what a bunch of people think who I don't know nor ever want to know? Is that important to you?


Start another poll. Prove your superiority.

Yea, the results must have been because of the evil words and not your lack of popularity.

[Ethereal]

That's important to you, huh?
Not really. But it miffs Bethere.

[Chris]

Certain members are designated as "VIP" members. Their names are highlighted in dark blue. They don't have any additional powers or privileges. It's mostly an honorary title for posters who've demonstrated merit over many years and who post regularly. Their main purpose is to set an example for other posters and to provide the forum moderation and ownership with advice.

And you guys make the rules.

[Captain Obvious]

And you guys make the rules.

...and break them

[Captain Obvious]

...and break them

bethere thanked this and I couldn't imagine why until I realized he thinks I had a spefic target for my comment, which I didn't, it was a general wisecrack directed at nobody specific.

[Bethere]

bethere thanked this and I couldn't imagine why until I realized he thinks I had a spefic target for my comment, which I didn't, it was a general wisecrack directed at nobody specific.

You assume much. Your avatar speaks volumes about your role on this forum.

[Mister D]

You assume much. Your avatar speaks volumes about your role on this forum.
http://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=3&dateline=1493686240

[Captain Obvious]

You assume much. Your avatar speaks volumes about your role on this forum.

You're easier to read than a fortune cookie. You have a very immature and fragile personality.

Maybe you cannot see it.

[Captain Obvious]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=3&dateline=1493686240

All the bottom feeders get uptight about the avatar.

bethere, a self-described musician doesn't even recognize who it is. I think someone finally told him who it was lol.

[jimmyz]

You assume much. Your avatar speaks volumes about your role on this forum.

But but your avatar evokes the phrase "same ole song and dance". What might that say "about your role on this forum".... hmmmmm?

[Bo-4]

All the bottom feeders get uptight about the avatar.

bethere, a self-described musician doesn't even recognize who it is. I think someone finally told him who it was lol.

I know who it is and i MET Johnny Cash ...

You sir, are no Johnny Cash :cool2:

[Captain Obvious]

I know who it is and i MET Johnny Cash ...

You sir, are no Johnny Cash :cool2:

Did he tip for a quick delivery?

[Bethere]

But but your avatar evokes the phrase "same ole song and dance". What might that say "about your role on this forum".... hmmmmm?

No. My avatar, as Abby08 and I have already covered, evokes the phrase: "Hello my baby! Hello my honey! Hello my ragtime gal!"

[jimmyz]

Did he tip for a quick delivery?

"Dat vas a goot one" - Arnold Swashanigga

[Bethere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jbhm7FCQL8

The video shows the initial altercation in the middle ground between the two demonstrations. The police break it up and everyone goes back to their respective sides. Then, at around twenty-eight seconds, the Turkish demonstrators, including members of Erdogan's security detail, rush through the police line and begin attacking and beating everyone in sight, including women and old men. The idea that a foreign security service can beat up people on American soil, during a political demonstration, no less, is sickening and enraging, especially when they belong to a cadre of fascists and genocide deniers. Turkey's government is being run by a thug and a despot and his supporters are like the Nazis of the Middle East. But it's all being swept under the rug by the US government and the media because Turkey is a member of NATO.

The Turks never would have done this in the past. They do it now because they know they'll get away with it. They know all of that because of their spot on reevaluation of our political situation.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

It's plausible Trump incited violence, judge rules in OK'ing lawsuit - ...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/02/politics/donald-trump-lawsuit-incite-violence-kentucky-rally/

[Bethere]

Obviously, US planners consider Turkey and our relationship with Turkey to be important. Why that is and whether or not you agree is irrelevant. That perception exists. Again, since when have we let such concerns take priority over strategic concerns? The answer never. I'm not sure why anyone would expect the US state to suddenly behave differently. It demonstrates remarkable naivety.

It's about 2 things:

1. Real estate. Turkey's is incredibly important. Among other things, they control Russian access to the Mediterranean.

2. It is best to keep Turkey gainfully occupied. Thet are better friends thsn enemies. They have the world's fifth or sixth rated military according to Janes. If we can't handle Afghanistan imagine what a nightmare the Turkish central plateau would be.

[Mister D]

It's about 2 things:

1. Real estate. Turkey's is incredibly important. Among other things, they control Russian access to the Mediterranean.

2. It is best to keep Turkey gainfully occupied. They have the world's fifth or sixth rated military according to Janes. If we can't handle Afghanistan imagine what a nightmare the Turkish central plateau would be.

Agreed on #1. That's certainly part of it.

We could easily dominate Turkey. We chose to make a nation out of Afghanistan. Different ballgame.

[Bethere]

Agreed on #1. That's certainly part of it.

We could easily dominate Turkey. We chose to make a nation out of Afghanistan. Different ballgame.

It's all relative. Turkey would stomp anyone in their region including Iran and Israel.

[Mister D]

It's all relative. Turkey would stomp anyone in their region including Iran and Israel.
Israel is quite capable of handling herself. Anyway, not sure what you mean by relative. You made specific mention of the US in Afghanistan. We weren't trying to dominate or even contain Afghanistan (or Iraq for that matter) which would be a simple matter. It would also be simple in Turkey's case. Instead we tried to radically transform Afghanistan and Iraq into liberal democracies. The best army in the world won't be much help in that project.

[Bethere]

Israel is quite capable of handling herself. Anyway, not sure what you mean by relative. You made specific mention of the US in Afghanistan. We weren't trying to dominate or even contain Afghanistan (or Iraq for that matter) which would be a simple matter. It would also be simple in Turkey's case. Instead we tried to radically transform Afghanistan and Iraq into liberal democracies. The best army in the world won't be much help in that project.

Turkey is designed to defend itself against Russia. And while we would beat any country that went toe to toe with us, Turkey would be a nightmare. It poses major geographic issues.

You need to spend a summer traveling around the place to understand. I lived in Ankara for years as a child. I wouldn't mess with them, I really wouldn't.

[Mister D]

Turkey is designed to defend itself against Russia. And while we would beat any country that went toe to toe with us, Turkey would be a nightmare. It poses major geographic issues.

You need to spend a summer traveling around the place to understand. I lived in Ankara for years as a child. I wouldn't mess with them, I really wouldn't.

Indefinitely occupying a country and rendering it defenseless or impotent are two very different things.

[Bethere]

Indefinitely occupying a country and rendering it defenseless or impotent are two very different things.

We are indefinitely occupying it NOW.

Meanwhile, you've rendered Turkey impotent. It desolves into anarchy and as we all know, good things don't happen to failed states.

Anarchy is fun to talk about online, but it is a disaster in real life. So, I guess my point is while they are two different things they are in reality inseparable for the world's only superpower.


"You broke it? You bought it."--Pottery Barn.

[Mister D]

We are indefinitely occupying it NOW.
We're occupying Turkey?

[Abby08]

I know who it is and i MET Johnny Cash ...

You sir, are no Johnny Cash :cool2:

So, his avatar IS Johnny Cash, I thought so. Johnny Cash is one of the cd's I have loaded into my disc changer......love him.

[Bethere]

We're occupying Turkey?

A continuous military presence since 1945.

[Mister D]

A continuous military presence since 1945.
Military bases aren't occupation bethere.

[Bethere]

Military bases aren't occupation bethere.
You are splitting hairs and you are also avoiding the realities of pottery Barn.


We are indefinitely occupying it NOW.

Meanwhile, you've rendered Turkey impotent. It desolves into anarchy and as we all know, good things don't happen to failed states.

Anarchy is fun to talk about online, but it is a disaster in real life. So, I guess my point is while they are two different things they are in reality inseparable for the world's only superpower.

[Mister D]

You are splitting hairs and you are also avoiding the realities of pottery Barn.
You don't understand the use of that particular idiom.

[Bethere]

You don't understand the use of that particular idiom.

Of course I do. Colin Powell and I laugh.

You did well. Several posts without an attack.

I quit before you revert to form.

Good job.

[Mister D]

Of course I do. Colin Powell and I laugh.

You did well. Several posts without an attack.

I quit before you revert to form.

Good job.

We aren't occupying Turkey any more than we are occupying Germany. lol

Seriously, several of you struggle with the idiom 'splitting hairs". If I am feeling generous I will tutor you.

[Chris]

No. My avatar, as Abby08 and I have already covered, evokes the phrase: "Hello my baby! Hello my honey! Hello my ragtime gal!"


It looks like the alt-right frog. You join up with Milo?

[Bethere]

It looks like the alt-right frog. You join up with Milo?

Milo is a pig. Jmho.

[del]

It looks like the alt-right frog. You join up with Milo?
get your eyes checked

[Peter1469]

Milo is not a pig. But at least we aren't misusing the term fascist again.

[DGUtley]

Warning -- Please discuss the thread and not each other.

[Bo-4]

Well, the Turkish Pricktator Autocrat got exactly what he wanted out of his DC visit. A photo with POTUS in White House, and beating up on a few snowflakes to boot!

Witnesses say he was talking to the bodyguards, instructed them to get out of limo and start a beatdown. He then GETS OUT and watches.

Two of his thugs were detained briefly but had to be released - "diplomatic immunity".

No wonder Trump admires him so .. that's exactly how he would like to treat reporters and protesters. For more misbehavior - check out the vid. Sad!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5DVJbNCdRM

[Ethereal]

The Turks never would have done this in the past. They do it now because they know they'll get away with it. They know all of that because of their spot on reevaluation of our political situation.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

It's plausible Trump incited violence, judge rules in OK'ing lawsuit - ...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/02/politics/donald-trump-lawsuit-incite-violence-kentucky-rally/
The Turks never would have done this before...

Because everyone knows how squeamish the Turks can be when it comes to violence and political oppression.

:rollseyes:

[Ethereal]

Turkey is designed to defend itself against Russia. And while we would beat any country that went toe to toe with us, Turkey would be a nightmare. It poses major geographic issues.

You need to spend a summer traveling around the place to understand. I lived in Ankara for years as a child. I wouldn't mess with them, I really wouldn't.
The US military could wipe Turkey off the face of the planet in a few hours and there is nothing they could do about it, assuming that's what we wanted to do.