View Full Version : Can we truest federal budget and spending numbers?
donttread
05-21-2017, 04:04 PM
For example spying on everyone must be expensive . So before we knew about the NSA's activities how were they budgeted for and how could we ever know where the money really went? How many things is the government and military currently spending money on that we don't know about ? What about unbudgeted "unoffical" foreign operations? How are such funds budgeted? How can we ever be sure the money is being spent for it's intened purpose, when we aren't allowed to know the intended purpose?
The abuse potential here is enormous ! Both when the funds are used for their top secret purposes ( like secretly spying on us) or simply embezzeled. The more operations are duped " top secret" the less we really know about how our money is spent and whether it ever even reaches it's "earmaked" purpose, whether said purpose is even necessary or even Constitutional.
We often talk of budgets, deficits and debt. But how can we possibly trust the numbers we are given on these subjects?
MisterVeritis
05-21-2017, 04:32 PM
For example spying on everyone must be expensive . So before we knew about the NSA's activities how were they budgeted for and how could we ever know where the money really went? How many things is the government and military currently spending money on that we don't know about ? What about unbudgeted "unoffical" foreign operations? How are such funds budgeted? How can we ever be sure the money is being spent for it's intened purpose, when we aren't allowed to know the intended purpose?
The abuse potential here is enormous ! Both when the funds are used for their top secret purposes ( like secretly spying on us) or simply embezzeled. The more operations are duped " top secret" the less we really know about how our money is spent and whether it ever even reaches it's "earmaked" purpose, whether said purpose is even necessary or even Constitutional.
We often talk of budgets, deficits and debt. But how can we possibly trust the numbers we are given on these subjects?
When I was in that line of business the budget was a very tightly guarded secret. Black programs are concealed within other programs.
Peter1469
05-21-2017, 04:40 PM
The budgets for intel agencies are classified.
donttread
05-21-2017, 04:50 PM
When I was in that line of business the budget was a very tightly guarded secret. Black programs are concealed within other programs.
In other words , lable it secret and nobody's watching the hen house?
donttread
05-21-2017, 04:52 PM
The budgets for intel agencies are classified.
So fair game for whatever. Comforting? Do we at least "read in " some accountants to hold their feet to the fire?
MisterVeritis
05-21-2017, 04:56 PM
In other words , lable it secret and nobody's watching the hen house?
No. Knowing the budget lets people figure out just how much you can do.
I was in a program that had six subcompartments in it. I was read on for all but two. The two I did not have access to were the budget for the program and the maintenance agreements. I had access to the four operational compartments.
Interestingly, the top line budget number was top secret.
The oversight committees are responsible for oversight. Maybe that is why it is in their names. The Congress approves the budgets (or used to). We need to get back to passing real budgets again.
MisterVeritis
05-21-2017, 04:57 PM
So fair game for whatever. Comforting? Do we at least "read in " some accountants to hold their feet to the fire?
I have the impression you don't know much about budgets and oversight.
Peter1469
05-21-2017, 04:58 PM
So fair game for whatever. Comforting? Do we at least "read in " some accountants to hold their feet to the fire?
The various Congressional intel committees get to see the budget request and approve make changes.
Newpublius
05-21-2017, 04:58 PM
For example spying on everyone must be expensive . So before we knew about the NSA's activities how were they budgeted for and how could we ever know where the money really went? How many things is the government and military currently spending money on that we don't know about ? What about unbudgeted "unoffical" foreign operations? How are such funds budgeted? How can we ever be sure the money is being spent for it's intened purpose, when we aren't allowed to know the intended purpose?
The abuse potential here is enormous ! Both when the funds are used for their top secret purposes ( like secretly spying on us) or simply embezzeled. The more operations are duped " top secret" the less we really know about how our money is spent and whether it ever even reaches it's "earmaked" purpose, whether said purpose is even necessary or even Constitutional.
We often talk of budgets, deficits and debt. But how can we possibly trust the numbers we are given on these subjects?
No
donttread
05-22-2017, 06:49 AM
No. Knowing the budget lets people figure out just how much you can do.
I was in a program that had six subcompartments in it. I was read on for all but two. The two I did not have access to were the budget for the program and the maintenance agreements. I had access to the four operational compartments.
Interestingly, the top line budget number was top secret.
The oversight committees are responsible for oversight. Maybe that is why it is in their names. The Congress approves the budgets (or used to). We need to get back to passing real budgets again.
And you don't see our corrupt government exploiting that? You trust our congress that much? Sounds like a set up for a scam central to me
donttread
05-22-2017, 06:50 AM
No
No we cannot trust the numbers the government gives us? I agree.
donttread
05-22-2017, 06:51 AM
The various Congressional intel committees get to see the budget request and approve make changes.
Not very comforting. Sounds like a playground for graft and perhaps "seymour" to feed the military industrial complex.
donttread
05-22-2017, 06:52 AM
I have the impression you don't know much about budgets and oversight.
I have the impression you grossly misuse the word "oversight"
texan
05-22-2017, 07:23 AM
For example spying on everyone must be expensive . So before we knew about the NSA's activities how were they budgeted for and how could we ever know where the money really went? How many things is the government and military currently spending money on that we don't know about ? What about unbudgeted "unoffical" foreign operations? How are such funds budgeted? How can we ever be sure the money is being spent for it's intened purpose, when we aren't allowed to know the intended purpose?
The abuse potential here is enormous ! Both when the funds are used for their top secret purposes ( like secretly spying on us) or simply embezzeled. The more operations are duped " top secret" the less we really know about how our money is spent and whether it ever even reaches it's "earmaked" purpose, whether said purpose is even necessary or even Constitutional.
We often talk of budgets, deficits and debt. But how can we possibly trust the numbers we are given on these subjects?
Couple of prominent issues are making it impossible to fire or layoff anyone. Unless you are in the service then they will not renew your active duty status. Obama laid off a ton of service men and women. The second big issue is the must spend or lose it rule. If you have money left over its a bad thing?
The government needs an overhaul. Why do you think the dems and republicans really hated the idea of a Trump type person exposing everything?
MisterVeritis
05-22-2017, 08:41 AM
And you don't see our corrupt government exploiting that? You trust our congress that much? Sounds like a set up for a scam central to me
I just shake my head.
MisterVeritis
05-22-2017, 08:41 AM
I have the impression you grossly misuse the word "oversight"
I have the impression you don't know what you are talking about.
Peter1469
05-22-2017, 05:06 PM
Not very comforting. Sounds like a playground for graft and perhaps "seymour" to feed the military industrial complex.
The Congress should vet the numbers with you prior to a vote.
donttread
05-24-2017, 06:55 AM
Couple of prominent issues are making it impossible to fire or layoff anyone. Unless you are in the service then they will not renew your active duty status. Obama laid off a ton of service men and women. The second big issue is the must spend or lose it rule. If you have money left over its a bad thing?
The government needs an overhaul. Why do you think the dems and republicans really hated the idea of a Trump type person exposing everything?
I definitely agree about the "spend or lose it rule" . Nothing could be worse for government budgets even if a manager wants to be frugal. You'd never see that rule in the private sector.
And you don't see our corrupt government exploiting that? You trust our congress that much? Sounds like a set up for a scam central to me
I think P.J' O'Rourke once said something like, "trusting the government with your money is like trusting your sixteen year old son with your car keys and wallet full of credit cards."
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