How Long Before The "Union" Descends Into Violence?

[Ethereal]

It seems clear to me that the "union" is, once again, coming apart at the seams.

You have a variety of competing factions, increasingly hateful and disdainful of one another, vying for control of a political system that largely determines the distribution of power and wealth in American society. If history is any indication, this presages violent conflict.

And in the interim, we will see endless bickering, fighting, intrigue, corruption, obstructionism, and bastardized compromises that leave one or all sides feeling resentful and cheated.

Clearly, this is not sustainable as long as people refuse to be dominated by their rivals and enemies. Eventually, something has to give.

My question is: How long do you think it will be before the various political factions in America dispense with all the pretenses and resort to violence as a means of resolving their conflicts? Are we already in the nascent stages of such a conflict? I mean, look at the quality of discourse on this political forum. People just keep talking past each other and lobbing insults at one another while becoming increasingly insular and cliquish. And it's not like this is unique to our little corner of the internet. US politics at large is a complete madhouse. There have even been violent clashes between opposing political mobs in the streets. That's usually how it begins.

All the rhetorical fluff about "coming together" and "we have more similarities than differences" is largely a Utopian pipe-dream that ignores the gritty realities of culture and ideology. Unity purely for its own sake is a dangerous fantasy that has never worked in any practical sense of the word. Those pushing it are, whether they realize it or not, pushing people towards conflict, despite having the best of intentions.

[Common]

I said in a recent thread that I never believed the divide in the country would be permanent, now I do. I dont think anything or anyone can repair this.

Will there be retaliatory violence ? I hope not, but if the left escalates the violence and their violent rhetoric much higher, there very well could be.

[Peter1469]

How many people pay enough attention?

[Bethere]

It seems clear to me that the "union" is, once again, coming apart at the seams.

You have a variety of competing factions, increasingly hateful and disdainful of one another, vying for control of a political system that largely determines the distribution of power and wealth in American society. If history is any indication, this presages violent conflict.

And in the interim, we will see endless bickering, fighting, intrigue, corruption, obstructionism, and bastardized compromises that leave one or all sides feeling resentful and cheated.

Clearly, this is not sustainable as long as people refuse to be dominated by their rivals and enemies. Eventually, something has to give.

My question is: How long do you think it will be before the various political factions in America dispense with all the pretenses and resort to violence as a means of resolving their conflicts? Are we already in the nascent stages of such a conflict? I mean, look at the quality of discourse on this political forum. People just keep talking past each other and lobbing insults at one another while becoming increasingly insular and cliquish. And it's not like this is unique to our little corner of the internet. US politics at large is a complete madhouse. There have even been violent clashes between opposing political mobs in the streets. That's usually how it begins.

All the rhetorical fluff about "coming together" and "we have more similarities than differences" is largely a Utopian pipe-dream that ignores the gritty realities of culture and ideology. Unity purely for its own sake is a dangerous fantasy that has never worked in any practical sense of the word. Those pushing it are, whether they realize it or not, pushing people towards conflict, despite having the best of intentions.

Look at how many points you have!

You've eliminated your competition and now you are officially this forum's most popular poster--check your awards.
Congratulations.

To address your op? Our union is strong. United we stand. Divided we fall. If it comes to violence you will lose, and 100 years later we will tear down any pathetic monuments you might dedicate to revisionist history.

[MisterVeritis]

Look at how many points you have!
Why did you game the system?You've eliminated your competition and now you are officially this forum's most popular poster--check your awards.
Congratulations.
Bo is the spokeshole for the Buffoonkins. Have you run this nonsense by him?

[Captain Obvious]

Look at how many points you have!

Why did you game the system?

You've eliminated your competition and now you are officially this forum's most popular poster--check your awards.


Congratulations.

Points are earned by participating on the forum.

Karma can be inflated if you get two or three other members to rep the shit out of you so you can fake popularity because you are shallow and have a fragile ego.

[MisterVeritis]

It seems clear to me that the "union" is, once again, coming apart at the seams.

You have a variety of competing factions, increasingly hateful and disdainful of one another, vying for control of a political system that largely determines the distribution of power and wealth in American society. If history is any indication, this presages violent conflict.

And in the interim, we will see endless bickering, fighting, intrigue, corruption, obstructionism, and bastardized compromises that leave one or all sides feeling resentful and cheated.

Clearly, this is not sustainable as long as people refuse to be dominated by their rivals and enemies. Eventually, something has to give.

My question is: How long do you think it will be before the various political factions in America dispense with all the pretenses and resort to violence as a means of resolving their conflicts? Are we already in the nascent stages of such a conflict? I mean, look at the quality of discourse on this political forum. People just keep talking past each other and lobbing insults at one another while becoming increasingly insular and cliquish. And it's not like this is unique to our little corner of the internet. US politics at large is a complete madhouse. There have even been violent clashes between opposing political mobs in the streets. That's usually how it begins.

All the rhetorical fluff about "coming together" and "we have more similarities than differences" is largely a Utopian pipe-dream that ignores the gritty realities of culture and ideology. Unity purely for its own sake is a dangerous fantasy that has never worked in any practical sense of the word. Those pushing it are, whether they realize it or not, pushing people towards conflict, despite having the best of intentions.
I am inclined to believe it takes between 30 and 40 years. We are already beyond the "norm". I don't think we have quite made it. but that will remain unclear until the event that creates the spark. After that plan on a decade of killing.

[Bethere]

I am inclined to believe it takes between 30 and 40 years. We are already beyond the 'norm". I don't think we have quite made it. but that will remain unclear until the event that creates the spark. After that plan on a decade of killing.
Good luck.

[MisterVeritis]

I am inclined to believe it takes between 30 and 40 years. We are already beyond the "norm". I don't think we have quite made it. but that will remain unclear until the event that creates the spark. After that plan on a decade of killing.

Good luck.
You damned fool. This is a disaster.

[Bethere]

You damned fool. This is a disaster.

See you at the top of the hill.

[MisterVeritis]

See you at the top of the hill.
A part of me is willing to go there.

[Bethere]

A part of me is willing to go there.

I'm tired of talking about it. We all are. Strap it up, Nancy.

[MisterVeritis]

I'm tired of talking about it. We all are. Strap it up, Nancy.
You would not survive it. I am tired too. Let's start this war.

[Bethere]

You would not survive it. I am tired too. Let's start this war.

You know little about me and you assume much.

You've already lost.

[MisterVeritis]

You know little about me and you assume much.
You've already lost.
Whatever you think, you need to think some more. You would never see it coming.

[Bethere]

Whatever you think, you need to think some more. You would never see it coming.

Where am I? Who am I?

[MisterVeritis]

Where am I?
It matters little. Start the war. I will find you. Pleasure before business.

[Common]

Where am I? Who am I?
You constantly tell others "You Lost" You lose and make other like references. Tell me what did he lose and what is to lose on a forum.

[Bethere]

It matters little. Start the war. I will find you. Pleasure before business.

You are the one who wants to dissolve the union, not Bethere. It's your war to start. Get on with it.

And might I add that this would probably be the first time ever that the happy victors started a civil war.

What up with that?

[MisterVeritis]

You constantly tell others "You Lost" You lose and make other like references. Tell me what did he lose and what is to lose on a forum.
Bethere is a peculiar character. He believes he is invisible. We all leave trails.

No matter. The war will come when the war will come. Someone like bethere will provide the spark.

[MisterVeritis]

You are the one who wants to dissolve the union, not Bethere. It's your war to start. Get on with it.
And might I add that this would probably be the first time ever that the happy victors started a civil war.
What up with that?
Bo is the speaker for the Buffoonkins. Have you cleared this nonsense with him? I see what is coming. I think it is a monumental disaster.

As an intelligence officer, I told my boss when, where and with what strength and tactics the enemy would engage us. That did not mean I was eager for the attack.

I know what I know. A second revolution or a second civil war is coming. I cannot tell which it will be.

[Mechanic]

The war you want will not begin until republicans start it. The current social anxiety will be ended when the bloodless coup by trumpy is done. All of those who are opposed to the cretins desires will be gathered and executed. That is how the end will be.

[MisterVeritis]

The war you want will not begin until republicans start it. The current social anxiety will be ended when the bloodless coup by trumpy is done. All of those who are opposed to the cretins desires will be gathered and executed. That is how the end will be.
I cannot tell if a coup attempt will be the spark. You cannot win it.

[jimmyz]

I think that doom and gloom thoughts can occur to political discussion board members because we're here slugging it out with our ideas and angst. But the average Joe in the street isn't engaged like we are. They're wondering what's for dinner, who's winning the Dancing With The Stars final round and I wonder if wifey is up for sex tonight. tPF members represent a small percentage of people in the USA that actually are paying attention. And that's the way the powerful want it.

[MisterVeritis]

I think that doom and gloom thoughts can occur to political discussion board members because we're here slugging it out with our ideas and angst. But the average Joe in the street isn't engaged like we are. They're wondering what's for dinner, who's winning the Dancing With The Stars final round and I wonder if wifey is up for sex tonight. tPF members represent a small percentage of people in the USA that actually are paying attention. And that's the way the powerful want it.
A rebellion can be successful with 3-5% active people with another 20% supporting. Part of why it takes 30-40 years is percolating the disgust down low enough in the populace for the war fever to take hold. Sometimes there are a series of events that indicate a true, underlying cause.

Why did Athens and Sparta go to war? It was not because of the spark event, the proximate cause. The reason built over two generations. Why did the North and South go to war? Because from 1830 to 1860 the constant political struggle involving the union of States versus a Union of states bubbled along in the background.

So it is today. We have similar issues. One-half the nation wants to be socialist. One-half wants to be free. War will decide it.

[Bo-4]

Your bloody shootout may indeed happen ...

In your mind (and possibly in MV's/ a few others of the terminally clueless)

Bunker up dude!

[Bo-4]

It matters little. Start the war. I will find you. Pleasure before business.

You GO Homer!

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/780305682071334912/bAya1Rkr.jpg

[Bo-4]

Bethere is a peculiar character. He believes he is invisible. We all leave trails.

No matter. The war will come when the war will come. Someone like bethere will provide the spark.

Put me in Bethere's Bunker please ...

You know - when your imaginary war comes and all that stuff :cool2:

[MisterVeritis]

You GO Homer!

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/780305682071334912/bAya1Rkr.jpg
I would certainly include you as well if I could fit you in.

[ripmeister]

I said in a recent thread that I never believed the divide in the country would be permanent, now I do. I dont think anything or anyone can repair this.

Will there be retaliatory violence ? I hope not, but if the left escalates the violence and their violent rhetoric much higher, there very well could be.
So you are blaming this on the left? It takes two to tango.

[Bethere]

Put me in Bethere's Bunker please ...

You know - when your imaginary war comes and all that stuff :cool2:

Sgt. OG Kush will have our six.

[MisterVeritis]

Put me in Bethere's Bunker please ...
You know - when your imaginary war comes and all that stuff :cool2:
That will be up to you. I will predict when the time comes someone who knows you will come after you. The Marxists never figure how many enemies they have. One of the reasons rebellions tend to be bloody is the revenge killings.

[Bethere]

That will be up to you. I will predict when the time comes someone who knows you will come after you. The Marxists never figure how many enemies they have. one of the reasons rebellions tend to be bloody is the revenge killings.

We're not Marxists.

[MisterVeritis]

So you are blaming this on the left? It takes two to tango.
Another reason it takes so long to reach the culmination stage is our natural reluctance to go to war. I believe the left has been pushing for war for quite some time. And now the law itself cannot be trusted.

[MisterVeritis]

We're not Marxists.
I cannot tell yet about you. Others are. From each...to each.

[ripmeister]

I think that doom and gloom thoughts can occur to political discussion board members because we're here slugging it out with our ideas and angst. But the average Joe in the street isn't engaged like we are. They're wondering what's for dinner, who's winning the Dancing With The Stars final round and I wonder if wifey is up for sex tonight. tPF members represent a small percentage of people in the USA that actually are paying attention. And that's the way the powerful want it.

I'd have to agree with this. Apathy is the real enemy.

[ripmeister]

A rebellion can be successful with 3-5% active people with another 20% supporting. Part of why it takes 30-40 years is percolating the disgust down low enough in the populace for the war fever to take hold. Sometimes there are a series of events that indicate a try, underlying cause.

Why did Athens and Sparta go to war? It was not because of the spark event, the proximate cause. The reason built over two generations. Why did the North and South go to war? Because from 1830 to 1860 the constant political struggle involving the union of States versus a Union of states bubbled along in the background.

So it is today. We have similar issues. One half the nation wants to be socialist. One-half wants to be free. War will decide it.
If you are right and I don't think you are, the conflict will be between the haves and the have nots. Have nots could care less about political persuasion.

[MisterVeritis]

If you are right and I don't think you are, the conflict will be between the haves and the have nots. Have nots could care less about political persuasion.
Haves and have nots are irrelevant. I believe this will come down to a fight between socialists/Marxists, and those who still love liberty and freedom.

[ripmeister]

Haves and have nots are irrelevant. I believe this will come down to a fight between socialists/Marxists, and those who still love liberty and freedom.

Yea. Let them eat cake.

[MisterVeritis]

Yea. Let them eat cake.
Dumb.

[resister]

If you are right and I don't think you are, the conflict will be between the haves and the have nots. Have nots could care less about political persuasion.If and when civil war comes, they will be the haves, just look at riots, as soon as they start the looting comes, if it comes to blow I am headed to the swamps, just like the Seminole.

[Peter1469]

Bo is the speaker for the Buffoonkins. Have you cleared this nonsense with him? I see what is coming. I think it is a monumental disaster.

As an intelligence officer, I told my boss when, where and with what strength and tactics the enemy would engage us. That did not mean I was eager for the attack.

I know what I know. A second revolution or a second civil war is coming. I cannot tell which it will be.
I think it will be a crash of the USD and economy caused by the actions of both parties over the lasts few decades. Then there will be a free-for-all over the scraps.

[Peter1469]

The war you want will not begin until republicans start it. The current social anxiety will be ended when the bloodless coup by trumpy is done. All of those who are opposed to the cretins desires will be gathered and executed. That is how the end will be.

Das State will consolidate its power....

[MisterVeritis]

I think it will be a crash of the USD and economy caused by the actions of both parties over the lasts few decades. Then there will be a free-for-all over the scraps.
I have thought a great deal about the coming crash. I think less than half of the country will be affected. Years ago I read about the Great Depression. It affected about 1/3rd of the nation. This will be worse. But this won't cause a war. It will be very rough for the ones who are unprepared.

But if we move into a rebellion (which is what I expect) or a civil war it will be worse. I have considered writing a book about this. But I am kicking off a new series on leadership (and other things). It will have to wait.

[Doublejack]

The great civil war of our lifetime already happened. It just didn't play out like the wingers here wanted it to.

http://wordsinsquares.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Bundy-Tarpman-Snacks-and-Dildos.jpg

[Ethereal]

The war you want...

I specifically said I do not want a war. I just think it is unavoidable given past results and how present conditions align with them. But there is a way to avoid such a war, which is to peacefully dissolve the union.

[Ethereal]

I think that doom and gloom thoughts can occur to political discussion board members because we're here slugging it out with our ideas and angst. But the average Joe in the street isn't engaged like we are. They're wondering what's for dinner, who's winning the Dancing With The Stars final round and I wonder if wifey is up for sex tonight. tPF members represent a small percentage of people in the USA that actually are paying attention. And that's the way the powerful want it.
Most revolutions and civil wars are not fought by the "average Joe" or with broad popular engagement one way or the other. Instead, a dedicated and militant core at the heart of each faction makes up the bulk of the respective forces, with paid mercenaries and opportunists filling out the rest.

[Ethereal]

Your bloody shootout may indeed happen ...

Why are you characterizing it as my bloody shootout when I specifically said it shouldn't happen?

[Ethereal]

The great civil war of our lifetime already happened. It just didn't play out like the wingers here wanted it to.

You're not a student of history, I see.

What you don't seem to realize is that most revolutions or civil wars don't materialize over night. Rather, they are preceded by years of simmering resentment characterized by seemingly isolated incidents such as the Bundy protests.

Simply put, this presages what is to come in future. And it's not unique to "wingers", as you have described them. Indeed, one could argue the most militant and extreme revolutionary elements in America come from the "left" of the political spectrum. Just look at how OWS and BLM manage to gum up the operations of major cities with their protests and demonstrations, leaving behind millions of dollars worth of damage and refuse. And sometimes the militants who gravitate around these leftist protest movements end up shooting a bunch of cops. Both sides are full of hate and resentment. It's not unique to a particular ideological movement.

[Don]

From what I have seen the angry lefts idea of revolution is breaking windows and burning cars and assaulting people who they vastly outnumber while the police who have been politically neutered stand by and let it happen. If they were ever to push it too far and there was a real backlash they would melt away like the rioters in LA when they tried to loot and burn the Korean stores manned by men with guns who demonstrated they would use them.

[Ethereal]

This is how it begins...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wJkxIkNJHE

Stuff like this has been happening with increasing regularity. It's only a matter of time before it escalates even further. And notice how the left is eagerly instigating and participating in the violence.

[Ethereal]

From what I have seen the angry lefts idea of revolution is breaking windows and burning cars and assaulting people who they vastly outnumber while the police who have been politically neutered stand by and let it happen. If they were ever to push it too far and there was a real backlash they would melt away like the rioters in LA when they tried to loot and burn the Korean stores manned by men with guns who demonstrated they would use them.

You have to keep in mind that violence can be done via state proxy, which is the preferred form of leftist violence.

[Ethereal]

I cannot say I am surprised by the efforts of some to paint this as a partisan thing, especially trying to paint it as a "right wing" thing. In reality, it's just the unavoidable consequence of consolidated governments and factionalism. It's historical, not partisan. Both sides are full of hatred, resentment, and disgust for one another. Both sides have engaged in violence, subversion, and disobedience. Both sides are struggling to dominate the other. This is what happens when you try to "unite" warring tribes under a single banner. They fight. It's human nature.

[jimmyz]

The American Spirit will resolve all issues as it has in the past.God has said so.

[Ethereal]

The American Spirit will resolve all issues as it has in the past.God has said so.
The problem with this sentiment is that it presupposes such a "spirit" is characterized by a coherent and unifying theme, but the existence of factions, who clearly hate and despise one another, precludes such a possibility. Put another way, there is no common definition or understanding of what it means to be an American. Indeed, each faction has its own definition, and their definitions are usually incompatible with one another. How can that be reconciled without some kind of conflict? One might respond by saying "compromise", but compromise only works when each side feels like everyone is negotiating in good faith and they're getting more than they're giving up. But what we see instead are people walking away from federal policies - legislative, executive, and judicial - feeling resentful and cheated. Does that seem like a rational or fair system to you? More importantly, does it seem like a system that will promote peaceful coexistence between Americans?

[donttread]

It seems clear to me that the "union" is, once again, coming apart at the seams.

You have a variety of competing factions, increasingly hateful and disdainful of one another, vying for control of a political system that largely determines the distribution of power and wealth in American society. If history is any indication, this presages violent conflict.

And in the interim, we will see endless bickering, fighting, intrigue, corruption, obstructionism, and bastardized compromises that leave one or all sides feeling resentful and cheated.

Clearly, this is not sustainable as long as people refuse to be dominated by their rivals and enemies. Eventually, something has to give.

My question is: How long do you think it will be before the various political factions in America dispense with all the pretenses and resort to violence as a means of resolving their conflicts? Are we already in the nascent stages of such a conflict? I mean, look at the quality of discourse on this political forum. People just keep talking past each other and lobbing insults at one another while becoming increasingly insular and cliquish. And it's not like this is unique to our little corner of the internet. US politics at large is a complete madhouse. There have even been violent clashes between opposing political mobs in the streets. That's usually how it begins.

All the rhetorical fluff about "coming together" and "we have more similarities than differences" is largely a Utopian pipe-dream that ignores the gritty realities of culture and ideology. Unity purely for its own sake is a dangerous fantasy that has never worked in any practical sense of the word. Those pushing it are, whether they realize it or not, pushing people towards conflict, despite having the best of intentions.

We long ago ceased to be a "Union of States" or even "United States" . We are simply another federally dominated nation in a world full of them . That will remain true until and unless we can repeal the 16th someday.

[MisterVeritis]

We long ago ceased to be a "Union of States" or even "United States". We are simply another federally dominated nation in a world full of them. That will remain true until and unless we can repeal the 16th someday.
We stopped having a federal government sometime after WWII. We now have a tyrannical national government. We can still fix it with an Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

[donttread]

We stopped having a federal government sometime after WWII. We now have a tyrannical national government. We can still fix it with an Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


Agreed, but part of that MUST be a repeal of the 16th which is how the feds have disemboweled the states rights.

[MisterVeritis]

Agreed, but part of that MUST be a repeal of the 16th which is how the feds have disemboweled the states rights.
I would refer you to the convention of states project. So far twelve states have petitioned the Congress. We need 34. I hope the coup attempt and the failure of Congress to do what they promised will help bring another 22 in.

[Tahuyaman]

The American Spirit will resolve all issues as it has in the past.God has said so.


I agree that we will eventually overcome the extreme divisiveness we are experiencing today. There never will be a time when everyone is happy because that is not possible. There are those who will never be happy even if they always get their way. Some of those people are posting in this very thread.

[Common Sense]

Oh, so this is where they're keeping all the hyperbole and hysteria. I was wondering where it went.

[Tahuyaman]

I would refer you to the convention of states project. So far twelve states have petitioned the Congress. We need 34. I hope the coup attempt and the failure of Congress to do what they promised will help bring another 22 in.


I don't believe that is possible today. Too much of our population has been dumbed down to the point that issues like that are way over their head, so they are ignored.

[Tahuyaman]

Oh, so this is where they're keeping all the hyperbole and hysteria. I was wondering where it went.


Huh?

[Common Sense]

Huh?

I wasn't referring to your post, but the thread in general.

[Tahuyaman]

I wasn't referring to your post, but the thread in general.

While I don't agree with everything said here, could you explain in specifics why you say that?

[MisterVeritis]

I don't believe that is possible today. Too much of our population has been dumbed down to the point that issues like that are way over their head, so they are ignored.
You will not be proved wrong if you make no attempt.

[Tahuyaman]

You will not be proved wrong if you make no attempt.


The biggest reason government has sponsored the destruction of our public schools is that its much easier to contain and control a population which has been dumbed down.


They have taught people over generations that those who advocate governing strictly by constitutional principles are extremists who oppose basic human rights and want to restrict individual liberties.

[Common Sense]

While I don't agree with everything said here, could you explain in specifics why you say that?

Generally that the US is on the verge of civil war and that the fed is a tyrannical force...

[Ethereal]

Oh, so this is where they're keeping all the hyperbole and hysteria. I was wondering where it went.
Are you sure it's not in the delusional "Trump is a Russian stooge" threads started every five seconds by hyper-partisan Democrats?

Anyway, there is a historical basis for my claims, not only as a general matter, but specifically with regards to America, or have you forgotten that the history of our country is replete with internecine warfare?

I know it's more comforting to think that all is well with the unionist pipe dream at the heart of our political system, but that requires one to ignore the increasing hostility and division between Americans on a wide range of important issues, to say nothing of the general history of factionalism in the context of political unions.

So maybe, just once, you could try addressing the substance of the topic instead of just dismissing it completely out of hand?

[Ethereal]

Generally that the US is on the verge of civil war and that the fed is a tyrannical force...
That's not really an explanation, though. It's just an assertion of your opinion.

[Tahuyaman]

Generally that the US is on the verge of civil war and that the fed is a tyrannical force...

I certainly don't believe that we are on the verge of a civil war in that we are heading toward an armed conflict, but we are certainly in an era of trasformation bordering an ideological civil war.

[MisterVeritis]

The biggest reason government has sponsored the destruction of our public schools is that its much easier to contain and control a population which has been dumbed down.


They have taught people over generations that those who advocate governing strictly by constitutional principles are extremists who oppose basic human rights and want to restrict individual liberties.
You will not be proved wrong if you make no attempt.

​It is okay. We will do it without your help.

[Tahuyaman]

You will not be proved wrong if you make no attempt.

​It is okay. We will do it without your help.


At times you make it very difficult to be on your side.

[Cthulhu]

Look at how many points you have!

You've eliminated your competition and now you are officially this forum's most popular poster--check your awards.
Congratulations.

To address your op? Our union is strong. United we stand. Divided we fall. If it comes to violence you will lose, and 100 years later we will tear down any pathetic monuments you might dedicate to revisionist history.
So the union is strong...but about half the population hates the president?

And you're going to tear down history you don't like.

Perhaps your definition of unity is different than mine.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Cthulhu]

I think it will be a crash of the USD and economy caused by the actions of both parties over the lasts few decades. Then there will be a free-for-all over the scraps.
Could be economic, or a false flag EMP attack.

Operation Gotham Shield is underway. Some of these drills the gov runs tend to "go live".

Even a cyber attack of sufficient strength would do significant damage.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[MisterVeritis]

A rebellion can be successful with 3-5% active people with another 20% supporting. Part of why it takes 30-40 years is percolating the disgust down low enough in the populace for the war fever to take hold. Sometimes there are a series of events that indicate a try, underlying cause.

Why did Athens and Sparta go to war? It was not because of the spark event, the proximate cause. The reason built over two generations. Why did the North and South go to war? Because from 1830 to 1860 the constant political struggle involving the union of States versus a Union of states bubbled along in the background.

So it is today. We have similar issues. One half the nation wants to be socialist. One-half wants to be free. War will decide it.

If you are right and I don't think you are, the conflict will be between the haves and the have nots. Have nots could care less about political persuasion.
I am always willing to learn. Which parts of what I wrote do you disagree with?
Was it my percentages? They are derived from around five years of study of many small wars over a long period of time.

Was it my assessment of Athens and Sparta? Smarter men than me have said the same.

Or do you disagree with my assessment of our first civil war? I am still studying that one. I purchased at least a dozen books on the abolition movement and the history of the period from 1800-1860. My cursory examination looks right.

Or do you disagree that one-half of the nation wants to use socialism to enslave the other half, while the objects of the left's slavery want to live free and be left alone?

[MisterVeritis]

You will not be proved wrong if you make no attempt.

It is okay. We will do it without your help.

At times you make it very difficult to be on your side.
I know. In my defense, you convince yourself that no possible action will solve the problem so you take the action you have convinced yourself to take. No action.

There is power in action. There is magic in it. Take action. Get your state to sign on. And later when it fails as you know it must you can say, "See, I told you so."

But more likely you will say, "I knew it was possible but I didn't think we could do it. And then we did."

[MisterVeritis]

I certainly don't believe that we are on the verge of a civil war in that we are heading toward an armed conflict, but we are certainly in an era of trasformation bordering an ideological civil war.
How difficult is the transition from yelling and pushing to shooting and killing?

Ideas always come first. One side wants to enslave the other side. I heard snippets of Suckerberg telling the Harvard blessed that we need to have guaranteed incomes to be provided for by all to all. He wants Marxism.

I, on the other hand, would be willing to kill to prevent it.

It begins with ideas. His for the enslavement of all who are not him. And me who wants liberty and freedom for everyone including him.

He will push and I will push back. At that point, all it takes is the right spark.

[MisterVeritis]

Could be economic, or a false flag EMP attack.
Operation Gotham Shield is underway. Some of these drills the gov runs tend to "go live".
Even a cyber attack of sufficient strength would do significant damage.

What would a false flag electromagnetic pulse look like to an observer?

[Cthulhu]

What would a false flag electromagnetic pulse look like to an observer?
For the most part nothing.

They would rapidly notice nearly everything electrical not working though.

Planes falling out of the sky would be a little nerve wracking.

Give it about 2 days and urban centers will be a festival of either carnage or martial law.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[MisterVeritis]

For the most part nothing.

They would rapidly notice nearly everything electrical not working though.

Planes falling out of the sky would be a little nerve wracking.

Give it about 2 days and urban centers will be a festival of either carnage or martial law.

Sent from my evil cell phone.
I am very well versed on EMP weapons. What would the false flag portion of it look like?

[Bethere]

How difficult is the transition from yelling and pushing to shooting and killing?

Ideas always come first. One side wants to enslave the other side. I heard snippets of Suckerberg telling the Harvard blessed that we need to have guaranteed incomes to be provided for by all to all. He wants Marxism.

I, on the other hand, would be willing to kill to prevent it.

It begins with ideas. His for the enslavement of all who are not him. And me who wants liberty and freedom for everyone including him.

He will push and I will push back. At that point, all it takes is the right spark.

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385&ved=0ahUKEwjDgKzjsY7UAhUC4YMKHTIPAdUQFghvMA0&usg=AFQjCNEuvREJs0EeabJvZjbG6t5D9wbaMg



Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

[MisterVeritis]

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute


U.S. Code (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text) › Title 18 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18) › Part I (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I) › Chapter 115 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115) › § 2385

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Current through Pub. L. 114-38 (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-114publ38/html/PLAW-114publ38.htm). (See Public Laws for the current Congress (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/LegislativeData.php?n=PublicLaws).)



US Code (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385?qt-us_code_temp_noupdates=0#qt-us_code_temp_noupdates)
Notes (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385?qt-us_code_temp_noupdates=1#qt-us_code_temp_noupdates)

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Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

Does it mention supporting coups?

[Tahuyaman]

You will not be proved wrong if you make no attempt.

It is okay. We will do it without your help.

I know. In my defense, you convince yourself that no possible action will solve the problem so you take the action you have convinced yourself to take. No action.

There is power in action. There is magic in it. Take action. Get your state to sign on. And later when it fails as you know it must you can say, "See, I told you so."

But more likely you will say, "I knew it was possible but I didn't think we could do it. And then we did."


No, I recognize and accept reality.

[MisterVeritis]

No, I recognize and accept reality.
No problem. We will succeed without your help. Just like the last election...

[Ethereal]

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385&ved=0ahUKEwjDgKzjsY7UAhUC4YMKHTIPAdUQFghvMA0&usg=AFQjCNEuvREJs0EeabJvZjbG6t5D9wbaMg



Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

Nobody is advocating that.

[Tahuyaman]

No problem. We will succeed without your help. Just like the last election...

I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton, so essentially you got my help.

[MisterVeritis]

I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton, so essentially you got my help.
LOL. I am beginning to see your problem.

[Tahuyaman]

LOL. I am beginning to see your problem.

The only problem I have is dealing with people who require 100% agreement on all political issues.

[Tahuyaman]

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institutehttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385&ved=0ahUKEwjDgKzjsY7UAhUC4YMKHTIPAdUQFghvMA0&usg=AFQjCNEuvREJs0EeabJvZjbG6t5D9wbaMg

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; orWhoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.Supporting or calling for a return to governing within the constraints laid out clearly in the US Constitution is not advocating an overthrow of government. It's calling for a restoration of government. It looks to me as though the left is advocating an overthrow of government because they disapprove of an election result. That's third world stuff.

[Tahuyaman]

So the union is strong...but about half the population hates the president?

And you're going to tear down history you don't like.

Perhaps your definition of unity is different than mine.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

It's not unusual to have nearly half the population be unsatisfied with who was elected president. We've had several who were elected with less than a majority of the popular vote.

I do find it disturbing though that many people seem to have this desire to erase periods of our history they find unconmfortable. I guess they've never heard of the old saying " those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it".

[The Xl]

The hard left and the deep state is playing a dangerous game, trying to remove a legitimately elected President based on politically motivated conjecture.

[Safety]

The same game the right played the last eight years, the only difference is the target the right had was too smart for them, Trump is like the Forrest Gump of presidents. No need to be only angry now.

[Ethereal]

The same game the right played the last eight years, the only difference is the target the right had was too smart for them, Trump is like the Forrest Gump of presidents. No need to be only angry now.
You're only proving my point. Both sides are clearly at war with one another. It seems like it's only a matter of time before it spills out into the streets. One could argue it already has to some extent.

[donttread]

The hard left and the deep state is playing a dangerous game, trying to remove a legitimately elected President based on politically motivated conjecture.

It's probably a distraction from all the war they are collectively makig and all the e-money they are spending.

[MisterVeritis]

The only problem I have is dealing with people who require 100% agreement on all political issues.
You believe standing by with your hands in your pockets is helping.

We will be fine without you. Just stand over there with your hands in your pockets. Thanks for the "help".

[Common Sense]

You believe standing by with your hands in your pockets is helping.

We will be fine without you. Just stand over there with your hands in your pockets. Thanks for the "help".
You going to wage this war in the interweb?

Scarry...

[MisterVeritis]

You going to wage this war in the interweb?
Scarry...
I will be happy to lay out what I believe will happen. You need only ask. But yes, cyber warfare will have a role.

[MisterVeritis]

The same game the right played the last eight years, the only difference is the target the right had was too smart for them, Trump is like the Forrest Gump of presidents. No need to be only angry now.
Very nice avatar.

[Common]

The same game the right played the last eight years, the only difference is the target the right had was too smart for them, Trump is like the Forrest Gump of presidents. No need to be only angry now.
Not even close you keep spouting that same garbage. I will explain this to you once again.
Obama had every thing he did covered up by the media. They did not report anything negative on obama. There were no never ending protests, there was no WLM shooting cops. There was NOTHING even remotely close Obama enjoyed the most carefree protected presidency in my lifetime.

[Common Sense]

Bwhahahahaha....

[Tahuyaman]

You believe standing by with your hands in your pockets is helping.

We will be fine without you. Just stand over there with your hands in your pockets. Thanks for the "help".

I refuse to beat my head against a wall and fight battles which are impossible to win.


Again, you make it extremely difficult to agree with you on anything.

[Common]

Bwhahahahaha....

Now you sound like some of our resident libtards, you keep hanging around american liberals youre eventually going to be as low class

[Common]

You're only proving my point. Both sides are clearly at war with one another. It seems like it's only a matter of time before it spills out into the streets. One could argue it already has to some extent.
What its going to take is one event where things get totally out of control something happens that grabs the attention of everyone and then it starts, clashs more often in more places and it snowballs

[MisterVeritis]

I refuse to beat my head against a wall and fight battles which are impossible to win.
Again, you make it extremely difficult to agree with you on anything.
We only disagree on what helping means.

[MisterVeritis]

What its going to take is one event where things get totally out of control something happens that grabs the attention of everyone and then it starts, clashs more often in more places and it snowballs
Oftentimes it is a final straw event. It will not be an accidental thing. From one day to the next everyone (except some of the very clueless liberals like we see here) will realize the shooting war has begun.

Another option is for patriots to realize the time has come to take the application of justice back into the peoples' hands. This model is a rebellion. This is the path I believe the US will take. The law has become lawless. The lawless must be punished. Only the people can do it. Under this model, three person teams will follow their targets waiting for the perfect time to strike. It will look like a street crime. But the targets will be sanctuary city mayors and city council members, high ranking police, high ranking leaders of federal departments and agencies. If you look at some recent examples individuals will be killed up close with small caliber handguns used just once. Family members will also be targets. People will be hit as they go about their daily business. Most will be killed in busy areas.

[Common Sense]

Now you sound like some of our resident libtards, you keep hanging around american liberals youre eventually going to be as low class
Sorry, I just couldn't help but laugh at your post...when you said "...Obama enjoyed the most carefree protected presidency in my lifetime." I just couldn't help but laugh.

[Common Sense]

Oftentimes it is a final straw event. It will not be an accidental thing. From one day to the next everyone (except some of the very clueless liberals like we see here) will realize the shooting war has begun.

Another option is for patriots to realize the time has come to take the application of justice back into the peoples' hands. This model is a rebellion. This is the path I believe the US will take. The law has become lawless. The lawless must be punished. Only the people can do it. Under this model, three person teams will follow their targets waiting for the perfect time to strike. It will look like a street crime. But the targets will be sanctuary city mayors and city council members, high ranking police, high ranking leaders of federal departments and agencies. If you look at some recent examples individuals will be killed up close with small caliber handguns used just once. Family members will also be targets. People will be hit as they go about their daily business. Most will be killed in busy areas.

Maybe you should seize a bird sanctuary and get this thing started. I have a feeling you wont and you'll just talk about it from the safety of your home.

[MisterVeritis]

Maybe you should seize a bird sanctuary and get this thing started. I have a feeling you wont and you'll just talk about it from the safety of your home.
If the Revolutionary model is followed it won't be executed out of a bird sanctuary. Dullards. Can't live with 'em.

[Common Sense]

If the Revolutionary model is followed it won't be executed out of a bird sanctuary. Dullards. Can't live with 'em.

Go throw some tea in the harbour...

Somehow I doubt the keyboard will be abandoned for the tomahawk.

[MisterVeritis]

Go throw some tea in the harbour...
Somehow I doubt the keyboard will be abandoned for the tomahawk.
Some people's children are so limited. It is as their parents punished their children by not educating them. A thinking man's war is far better than a non-thinking man's war. Leave the thinking to those who can. You will be a better person for it.

[Safety]

Not even close you keep spouting that same garbage. I will explain this to you once again.
Obama had every thing he did covered up by the media. They did not report anything negative on obama. There were no never ending protests, there was no WLM shooting cops. There was NOTHING even remotely close Obama enjoyed the most carefree protected presidency in my lifetime.

Seriously return to Earth, or charge admission for this show.

[Tahuyaman]

Sorry, I just couldn't help but laugh at your post...when you said "...Obama enjoyed the most carefree protected presidency in my lifetime." I just couldn't help but laugh.

What's so funny about that? The media protected him as if he was their little brother. To them he was immaculate. Perfect. The messiah.

[Safety]

Laughing at the hacks thinking he was protected. Not being found guilty of accusations is not the same as being protected.

[Cthulhu]

I am very well versed on EMP weapons. What would the false flag portion of it look like?
Given North Korea, and their recent behavior. I think simply not defending against some of their capabilities would suffice.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[hotair]

It seems clear to me that the "union" is, once again, coming apart at the seams.

You have a variety of competing factions, increasingly hateful and disdainful of one another, vying for control of a political system that largely determines the distribution of power and wealth in American society. If history is any indication, this presages violent conflict.

And in the interim, we will see endless bickering, fighting, intrigue, corruption, obstructionism, and bastardized compromises that leave one or all sides feeling resentful and cheated.

Clearly, this is not sustainable as long as people refuse to be dominated by their rivals and enemies. Eventually, something has to give.

My question is: How long do you think it will be before the various political factions in America dispense with all the pretenses and resort to violence as a means of resolving their conflicts? Are we already in the nascent stages of such a conflict? I mean, look at the quality of discourse on this political forum. People just keep talking past each other and lobbing insults at one another while becoming increasingly insular and cliquish. And it's not like this is unique to our little corner of the internet. US politics at large is a complete madhouse. There have even been violent clashes between opposing political mobs in the streets. That's usually how it begins.

All the rhetorical fluff about "coming together" and "we have more similarities than differences" is largely a Utopian pipe-dream that ignores the gritty realities of culture and ideology. Unity purely for its own sake is a dangerous fantasy that has never worked in any practical sense of the word. Those pushing it are, whether they realize it or not, pushing people towards conflict, despite having the best of intentions.

I am going to go out on a limb here . . .
It is my guess that you do not follow the news.

You are way too late friend. It has already started.
Five (arguably six years) years late on calling this one!

[MisterVeritis]

I am very well versed on EMP weapons. What would the false flag portion of it look like?

Given North Korea, and their recent behavior. I think simply not defending against some of their capabilities would suffice.

What question did you answer?

[hotair]

What's so funny about that? The media protected him as if he was their little brother. To them he was immaculate. Perfect. The messiah.

Funny you should mention ‘messiah’

That is the very (official) title that the American Evangelical Church gave to Donald on his inauguration day.


Now that Christ (The Donald that is) has returned, it is finally time to get down to the real business of the day . . . the much "anticipated" Armageddon is finally here.
GO RAPTURE!!!!!

[Tahuyaman]

I don't recall anyone referring to Trump as Jesus Christ.

[resister]

I don't recall anyone referring to Trump as Jesus Christ.TDS does strange things to a person!

[decedent]

I would certainly include you as well if I could fit you in.

With enough lube, the possibilities are endless.

[MisterVeritis]

With enough lube, the possibilities are endless.
I suppose everything is homoerotic for you.
Fascinating. What did you call yourself earlier? A cuck and a what?