Healthcare systems of the world. Spain vs USA

[kilgram]

The Spanish healthcare is considered one of the best of the world, with difference to others like the American. The statistics reveal as a cheap heathcare like Spanish, can give much better results than very expensive systems like the American.

Also, the Spanish healthcare has another feature. It uses the so hated and communistic system as being a public healthcare and it is based of the universality principle.

In a recent study of the different healthcare systems, the Spanish is one of the best and being the first of populated countries, the first ones are the ones corresponding to small countries like Switzerland or Andorra.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)30818-8/fulltext

Also, from another source, talking of mortality in birth. The rates of mortality in USA of the mother in the birth and children is much higher than the Spanish, from 3 to 5 times higher. It is another interesting fact of the superiority of a public system healthcare.

[Captain Obvious]

How would Trump do as President of Spain?

Now do the reverse math.

[Ethereal]

My healthcare system can beat up your healthcare system.

[kilgram]

My healthcare system can beat up your healthcare system.
With what? Results of mortality? They are worse. More children and women dead in birth than Spanish.

The studies situate the American healthcare much more behind than the most efficient healthcare systems.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[Peter1469]

America can never have a universal system under the current thought that we must have the premium care.

You can have quality care without the royal service.

@kilgarm, how many people get private rooms in hospital in Spain?

[kilgram]

America can never have a universal system under the current thought that we must have the premium care.

@kilgarm, how many people get private rooms in hospital in Spain?
Private rooms are a luxury but absolutely secondary to the goal to the healthcare. Heal people.

But, answering to your question, in Spain if you want private rooms you can pay for them going to private heathcare. Now, if you have some serious disease forget being treated there. They will send you back to the public healthcare which is the one that have the best installations to treat serious diseases.
You can have quality care without the royal service.

[Peter1469]

Thanks.

I have said elsewhere that universal care won't work in the US because people want the royal level of service. We can't afford that, as seen with the Cali plan that would cost more than Cali's annual budget.


Private rooms are a luxury but absolutely secondary to the goal to the healthcare. Heal people.

But, answering to your question, in Spain if you want private rooms you can pay for them going to private heathcare. Now, if you have some serious disease forget being treated there. They will send you back to the public healthcare which is the one that have the best installations to treat serious diseases.
You can have quality care without the royal service.

[kilgram]

Thanks.

I have said elsewhere that universal care won't work in the US because people want the royal level of service. We can't afford that, as seen with the Cali plan that would cost more than Cali's annual budget.
What is the Cali service?

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[Chris]

A quick glance at the study says this: 1) It measures access to healthcare, not results. 2) As a survery it is necessarily subjective in raw data and that is abstracted in aggregates. 3) I didn't see costs identified. On the latter, I recall years ago arguing with Canadians about healthcare and they would generally argue it's free when in fact it's paid for in taxes.

[Peter1469]

What is the Cali service?

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk
California. Their proposed plan for state-wide universal healthcare exceeds their current annual budget- for the entire state.

[kilgram]

A quick glance at the study says this: 1) It measures access to healthcare, not results. 2) As a survery it is necessarily subjective in raw data and that is abstracted in aggregates. 3) I didn't see costs identified. On the latter, I recall years ago arguing with Canadians about healthcare and they would generally argue it's free when in fact it's paid for in taxes.
It is free. In the sense you don't have extra costs. It is, repayment.

Spanish healthcare gives better results with lower costs.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[Chris]

It is free. In the sense you don't have extra costs. It is, repayment.

Spanish healthcare gives better results with lower costs.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk


OK, so how much total taxes go to healthcare? How much per capita, average?

I don't see that in the data.

In the US everyone is guaranteed access, even if penniless you can go to the ER. In the US individual might pay more because they choose to.

[kilgram]

OK, so how much total taxes go to healthcare? How much per capita, average?

I don't see that in the data.

In the US everyone is guaranteed access, even if penniless you can go to the ER. In the US individual might pay more because they choose to.
I should look for it. Now I don't remember. But it was one of the cheapest. The taxes are low for healthcare.

Also as I said the results are better in topics as children mortality or women death at birth rate.

Also, in USA healthcare is not universal, not everybody has the right to healthcare and treatments are much more costly than the ones in Spain.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[DGUtley]

It is free. In the sense you don't have extra costs. It is, repayment. Spanish healthcare gives better results with lower costs. Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

You do have extra costs -- prescriptions and delays.
Also, where is your data that "Spanish healthcare gives better results with lower cost."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2013/12/health-care-spain
We in the US (well, some of us anyways) prefer not to have to rely on the government or the taxpayers for our healthcare. We don't believe in tying our fates to the government. Your signature line "Work and fight for the revolution and against the injustice" would seem to mean less government yet you are advocating for more government?

[DGUtley]

Also as I said the results are better in topics as children mortality or women death at birth rate.
Why is that? Is it because of healthcare or because of lifestyle?


Also, in USA healthcare is not universal, not everybody has the right to healthcare and treatments are much more costly than the ones in Spain.

Everyone has the right to healthcare in the USA. It is illegal to refuse treatment to anyone.

[Chris]

I should look for it. Now I don't remember. But it was one of the cheapest. The taxes are low for healthcare.

Also as I said the results are better in topics as children mortality or women death at birth rate.

Also, in USA healthcare is not universal, not everybody has the right to healthcare and treatments are much more costly than the ones in Spain.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk


Everyone has the "right". I have, for example, the "right" to buy a mansion if I chose to work hard enough and invest wisely enought for it.

[kilgram]

Everyone has the "right". I have, for example, the "right" to buy a mansion if I chose to work hard enough and invest wisely enought for it.
Lol. It is not a right. When I cannot access to it.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[DGUtley]

Lol. It is not a right. When I cannot access to it.

In the US, you have the right to care.

What about my right not to pay for your care? Where does your right to free care intersect with my right to be free from paying for your care? Why should your right to be cared for be greater than my right to be free from caring for you? You are a human being, I am a human being and why should your right be any greater than mine? Shouldn't your right to be free necessarily include my right to be free from the burden of you? In a free society, why should your right be greater than mine? Why should your right to reach into my pocket to pay for your healthcare be greater than my right to slap your hand away from my pocket?

[Beevee]

Why is that? Is it because of healthcare or because of lifestyle?



Everyone has the right to healthcare in the USA. It is illegal to refuse treatment to anyone.

Then why is preconditions such a talking point if anyone will get the treatment they require. And why is it claimed that a FURTHER 23m will be outside of treatment by 2020?

[kilgram]

In the US, you have the right to care.

What about my right not to pay for your care? Where does your right to free care intersect with my right to be free from paying for your care? Why should your right to be cared for be greater than my right to be free from caring for you? You are a human being, I am a human being and why should your right be any greater than mine? Shouldn't your right to be free necessarily include my right to be free from the burden of you? In a free society, why should your right be greater than mine? Why should your right to reach into my pocket to pay for your healthcare be greater than my right to slap your hand away from my pocket?
Such right does not exist. As Christ said what is to the Caesar goes to the Caesar and what is of God to God. In reference to the taxes when he was asked about it by a disciple.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[Chris]

Such right does not exist. As Christ said what is to the Caesar goes to the Caesar and what is of God to God. In reference to the taxes when he was asked about it by a disciple.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk



Rather your "right" to other's wealth does not exist. Rights are responsibilities. They are not obligations.

[Chris]

Then why is preconditions such a talking point if anyone will get the treatment they require. And why is it claimed that a FURTHER 23m will be outside of treatment by 2020?

That has to do with insurance, not health care. A storm blows in and the waves wipe out your beachfront summer home. Do you expect you can apply for insurance now and get it?

[kilgram]

That has to do with insurance, not health care. A storm blows in and the waves wipe out your beachfront summer home. Do you expect you can apply for insurance now and get it?
It is to healthcare if I cannot access to an insurance to cover my disease. And in consequence I don't receive the right treatment.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

[Chris]

It is to healthcare if I cannot access to an insurance to cover my disease. And in consequence I don't receive the right treatment.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

Why does an insurance company "owe" you this?


(We seem to have sidetracked into rights and obligatons etc. What happened to Spain and US comparisons?)

[DGUtley]

Such right does not exist. As Christ said what is to the Caesar goes to the Caesar and what is of God to God. In reference to the taxes when he was asked about it by a disciple.
You didn't answer my question -- but I suppose you are saying that somehow your right to take from me is greater than my right not to have you take from me? Your right to have me care for you is somehow greater than my right not to have to care for you? I don't see a constitutional basis for that, I'm sorry. Charity by the point of a sword is not charity.