PDA

View Full Version : Thank God, the country dodged a bullet last night



Reality1st
11-07-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm feeling a lot of joy and relief at these election results. We all, the whole country, just barely dodged the bullets of ideological extremism.....plutocracy.......corporatism/fascism.........the crushing of women's rights.......the denial of reality in many areas, such as global warming......and of course, all of that goofy bigoted cult craziness from Romney with that Mormon Elder bizarre political power prophecies of total American domination by Mormons and from Ryan with that wicked cultish AynRandian heartless money/greed worship. One of the important and positive things about these election results, aside from not having to watch my country go down the tubes under the mismanagement of corporate stooges like Romoney & ol' Lying Ryan, is the fact that the rightwingers, especially Romney, based their campaigns on lies and the lies didn't work in the end. Hurray for the American people.

Mister D
11-07-2012, 04:03 PM
lol

wazi99
11-07-2012, 04:11 PM
Just wait till January when your taxes go up from Obama Care... Then come back and tell me we dodged a bullet.

patrickt
11-07-2012, 04:14 PM
Pathetic, Reality. Between fraud and buying votes President Obama won the election. I guess this means he gets to dance around his office again, sneering at everyone, and saying, "I won, I won."

Chris
11-07-2012, 04:17 PM
I for one am glad it's over.


BTW, fascism is left wing and socialistic, akin to the social democracy of corporatism and crony capitalism we're sinking into.

So we didn't dodge the bullet just kicked the can down the road to serfdom a bit more. (Triple mixed metaphor!!!)

Mainecoons
11-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Dodged the bullet of corporatism? LOL, that one is really funny. Just what do you think bailouts of private companies, even so far as those that are totally held in private hands (Chrysler) is? How about all that money pissed away on handouts to private alternative energy companies? How about the $40 billion per month being printed to buy the bad paper of the banksters?

How about the lack of prosecutions of bank and stock market fraud?

How about the Federal reserve driving interest rates to zero so that small savers and retired people are totally screwed?

This OP definitely falls in the category of "liberals--you can't fix stupid."

coolwalker
11-07-2012, 04:22 PM
Just wait till January when your taxes go up from Obama Care... Then come back and tell me we dodged a bullet.

...dodged a bullet to be hit by a bomb. It's amazing so many people swallowed the lies Obama put out...and this taking over America thing, where the hell did that come from. The left better watch out...the boogie man might get them.

Trinnity
11-07-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm feeling a lot of joy and relief at these election results. We all, the whole country, just barely dodged the bullets Sucker....wait til the real reality hits you, sir.

GrassrootsConservative
11-07-2012, 04:25 PM
:laugh: what an imbecile. Have you had your Obamarhoids checked up on lately?

Reality1st
11-07-2012, 04:31 PM
BTW, fascism is left wing and socialistic

Here's a good example of the delusional insanity and disconnection from reality that has come to characterize the modern rightwingnut. This word, 'fascism', has has a definite meaning and definition for about 7 decades or so but these retards on the right want to change the meaning so they can confuse people about the fact that their ideology is basically fascist.

World English Dictionary


fascism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism?s=t) (ˈfæʃɪzəm)





— n


1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism


2.
any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc

webrockk
11-07-2012, 05:52 PM
Either "Reality1st" is "livefree"...or one of them is plagiarizing the other http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-us-presidential-election/141999-thank-god-country-dodged-bullet-last-night.html

My reply to the other moron;

"Leftists must have you believe ObamaCo's incestuous foray into subsidizing their private sector "green" industry partners
isn't corporatism/fascism.

(Nor was their merger of government with private sector mortgage lenders...nor was their merger of government with private sector General Motors...nor, their "legacy" merger of government with the health insurance industry)"

Captain Obvious
11-07-2012, 05:54 PM
We had to jump off of the fiscal cliff to "dodge that bullet".

Chris
11-07-2012, 06:04 PM
Here's a good example of the delusional insanity and disconnection from reality that has come to characterize the modern rightwingnut. This word, 'fascism', has has a definite meaning and definition for about 7 decades or so but these retards on the right want to change the meaning so they can confuse people about the fact that their ideology is basically fascist.

World English Dictionary


fascism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism?s=t) (ˈfæʃɪzəm)





— n


1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism


2.
any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc




Oh, wow, the dictionary definition argument! And even there you cherry pick.



The only thing fascism was right of was communism. But they're both failed branches of socialism.

Chris
11-07-2012, 06:06 PM
Either "Reality1st" is "livefree"...or one of them is plagiarizing the other http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-us-presidential-election/141999-thank-god-country-dodged-bullet-last-night.html

My reply to the other moron;

"Leftists must have you believe ObamaCo's incestuous foray into subsidizing their private sector "green" industry partners
isn't corporatism/fascism.

(Nor was their merger of government with private sector mortgage lenders...nor was their merger of government with private sector General Motors...nor, their "legacy" merger of government with the health insurance industry)"

And then there's the crony capitalism with green corporations, Solyndra and others.

coolwalker
11-07-2012, 06:20 PM
Nobody mentioned Obamaism, the most deadly form of governing.

Calypso Jones
11-07-2012, 06:28 PM
We're not going to find out till January if we dodged a bullet or if we took it right between the eyes....well. I know but i guess we'll wait for the rest of you to figure it out.

Chris
11-07-2012, 06:32 PM
Nobody mentioned Obamaism, the most deadly form of governing.



Obamaism (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Obamaism)





1.
Obama-style collectivism. Barack Obama's political principle of centralized social and economic control.

George Soros recognizes Obamaism as the perfect scheme for harmonizing tribalism and socialism.

Trinnity
11-07-2012, 06:35 PM
Here's a good example of the delusional insanity and disconnection from reality that has come to characterize the modern rightwingnut. This word, 'fascism', has has a definite meaning and definition for about 7 decades or so but these retards on the right want to change the meaning so they can confuse people about the fact that their ideology is basically fascist.

World English Dictionary


fascism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism?s=t) (ˈfæʃɪzəm)





— n


1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism


2.
any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc


Without a link, your source means nothing. And besides it's for shit anyway AUTHORITARIAN is left wing, first, last, and always. It's another form of totalitarianism. Conservatives and libertarians are for individual liberty.

Chris
11-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Without a link, your source means nothing.

His link is hidden under word fascism, hover over it.

That's how I saw how he'd cherry picked his definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism?s=t provides many definitions. I prefer
a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Fits Obamaism to a T.

Trinnity
11-07-2012, 06:38 PM
Either "Reality1st" is "livefree"...or one of them is plagiarizing the other http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-us-presidential-election/141999-thank-god-country-dodged-bullet-last-night.html



<sock>

Trinnity
11-07-2012, 06:39 PM
His link is hidden under word fascism, hover over it.

That's how I saw how he'd cherry picked his definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism?s=t provides many definitions. I prefer

Fits Obamaism to a T.Thanks, Chris.

It's still a load of doo doo.

Calypso Jones
11-07-2012, 06:40 PM
Throw them both off.

Cedric
11-07-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm feeling a lot of joy and relief at these election results. We all, the whole country, just barely dodged the bullets of ideological extremism.....plutocracy.......corporatism/fascism.........the crushing of women's rights.......the denial of reality in many areas, such as global warming......and of course, all of that goofy bigoted cult craziness from Romney with that Mormon Elder bizarre political power prophecies of total American domination by Mormons and from Ryan with that wicked cultish AynRandian heartless money/greed worship. One of the important and positive things about these election results, aside from not having to watch my country go down the tubes under the mismanagement of corporate stooges like Romoney & ol' Lying Ryan, is the fact that the rightwingers, especially Romney, based their campaigns on lies and the lies didn't work in the end. Hurray for the American people.

TRANSLATION: an essentially ill-informed and non-thinking electorate decided to return a nation-hating socialist to the Oval Office to see if he can finish bringing this nation to its knees in another four years.

Trinnity
11-07-2012, 08:21 PM
TRANSLATION: an essentially ill-informed and non-thinking electorate decided to return a nation-hating socialist to the Oval Office to see if he can finish bringing this nation to its knees in another four years.That's about the size of it.

Peter1469
11-07-2012, 09:10 PM
I'm feeling a lot of joy and relief at these election results. We all, the whole country, just barely dodged the bullets of ideological extremism.....plutocracy.......corporatism/fascism.........the crushing of women's rights.......the denial of reality in many areas, such as global warming......and of course, all of that goofy bigoted cult craziness from Romney with that Mormon Elder bizarre political power prophecies of total American domination by Mormons and from Ryan with that wicked cultish AynRandian heartless money/greed worship. One of the important and positive things about these election results, aside from not having to watch my country go down the tubes under the mismanagement of corporate stooges like Romoney & ol' Lying Ryan, is the fact that the rightwingers, especially Romney, based their campaigns on lies and the lies didn't work in the end. Hurray for the American people.

Corporatism and fascism are two very different things. But your precocious Obama is much much closer to fascism that any recent national leader anywhere.

You seem to be a well meaning, but mal-educated chap who will get to view the coming currency collapse first hand, because your public school failed you. Enjoy the "fruits" of your election.

Reality1st
11-08-2012, 02:52 PM
Corporatism and fascism are two very different things.
"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini"





But your precocious Obama is much much closer to fascism that any recent national leader anywhere.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....you poor delusional retard.....






You seem to be a well meaning, but mal-educated chap who will get to view the coming currency collapse first hand, because your public school failed you. Enjoy the "fruits" of your election.
You seem to be a very retarded, extremely ignorant moron who has been so severely brainwashed that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

patrickt
11-08-2012, 07:28 PM
For Nonreality, hurrying to the purge is called dodging a bullet. Good luck, Nonreality.

Reality1st
11-08-2012, 07:56 PM
For Nonreality, hurrying to the purge is called dodging a bullet. Good luck, Nonreality.
For pattycakes, putting the corporations and the religious cult wackos in charge is called 'saving the country'. LOL. Good luck in the sanatorium, pattycakes.

Calypso Jones
11-08-2012, 08:01 PM
For pattycakes, putting the corporations and the religious cult wackos in charge is called 'saving the country'. LOL. Good luck in the sanatorium, pattycakes.

That's exactly who's in charge. Corporations putting money in democrat pockets and the religion of atheism and islam.

Chris
11-08-2012, 08:19 PM
Ob, boy, just what we needed, another troll.

GrassrootsConservative
11-08-2012, 08:24 PM
For pattycakes, putting the corporations and the religious cult wackos in charge is called 'saving the country'. LOL. Good luck in the sanatorium, pattycakes.

Good luck dead when the president YOU ELECTED takes down our fuckin missile defenses and gets us all wiped off the face of the earth. I hope you're happy you got your welfare checks, fuckwad. :meanfingers:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

Kizzume
11-08-2012, 11:56 PM
Without a link, your source means nothing. And besides it's for shit anyway AUTHORITARIAN is left wing, first, last, and always. It's another form of totalitarianism. Conservatives and libertarians are for individual liberty.

I'm sorry, but this is just garbage! Authoritarian can come from either side! This is just about the worst, most partisan post I've ever seen on this forum! GARGABE!!! PURE GARBAGE!!! I'm utterly in disbelief you'd post something so out-of-touch with reality!!!!!!!

EDIT: I'm betting you completely disagree with the political compass! This idea that only the left can be authoritarian--I just can't believe you said it!!! I'm just in disbelief!!!

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 12:14 AM
Let me guess--the government wanting to get into people's bedrooms--that's a left wing idea?
The FCC censoring "swear words" and sexual scenes--that's a left wing thing?
The most adamant people against prostitution have been right wingers--but I guess it's a left-wing thing?
People wanting to enforce the Bible into law--I never knew it came from the left?
Wow, I never knew. :rolleyes:

KC
11-09-2012, 12:23 AM
I'm sorry, but this is just garbage! Authoritarian can come from either side! This is just about the worst, most partisan post I've ever seen on this forum! GARGABE!!! PURE GARBAGE!!! I'm utterly in disbelief you'd post something so out-of-touch with reality!!!!!!!

EDIT: I'm betting you completely disagree with the political compass! This idea that only the left can be authoritarian--I just can't believe you said it!!! I'm just in disbelief!!!

Left and right wing authoritarianism are both real. I doubt anyone would call the Patriot Act, movements to ban abortion, marijuana usage, contraception or gay marriage left wing, just like no one would call corporatism, increased taxes, social services or excessive government regulation right wing.

Classical Liberalism and modern libertarianism are the only political ideologies that find themselves consistently at odds with political Authoritarianism.

Reality1st
11-09-2012, 04:34 AM
Ob, boy, just what we needed, another troll.

I suppose that's one way to announce yourself. At least you're honest about it.

Chris
11-09-2012, 09:10 AM
I'm sorry, but this is just garbage! Authoritarian can come from either side! This is just about the worst, most partisan post I've ever seen on this forum! GARGABE!!! PURE GARBAGE!!! I'm utterly in disbelief you'd post something so out-of-touch with reality!!!!!!!

EDIT: I'm betting you completely disagree with the political compass! This idea that only the left can be authoritarian--I just can't believe you said it!!! I'm just in disbelief!!!

Agree, left and right can be authoritarian, in fact both can be socialistic.

http://i.snag.gy/XYyRs.jpg

Peter1469
11-09-2012, 12:03 PM
"fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - benito mussolini"





lololololololol.....you poor delusional retard.....






You seem to be a very retarded, extremely ignorant moron who has been so severely brainwashed that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.


lol.

Peter1469
11-09-2012, 12:04 PM
Let me guess--the government wanting to get into people's bedrooms--that's a left wing idea?
The FCC censoring "swear words" and sexual scenes--that's a left wing thing?
The most adamant people against prostitution have been right wingers--but I guess it's a left-wing thing?
People wanting to enforce the Bible into law--I never knew it came from the left?
Wow, I never knew. :rolleyes:

If someone wants the government in bedrooms they are statists. Left wing.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Corporatism is a social order and it's ancient. It predates the left/right paradigm by thousands of years.

GrassrootsConservative
11-09-2012, 12:05 PM
If someone wants the government in bedrooms they are statists. Left wing.

Agreed.

Peter1469
11-09-2012, 12:36 PM
"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini"





LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....you poor delusional retard.....






You seem to be a very retarded, extremely ignorant moron who has been so severely brainwashed that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

Hey sport. Let's get the difference between fascism and corporatism straight.

Under corporatism the big corporations control the government to one extent or another.

Under fascism, the corporations toe the State line, or their leadership is assassinated.

Do you now get the difference.

Tool.

KC
11-09-2012, 01:15 PM
If someone wants the government in bedrooms they are statists. Left wing.

That doesn't reflect the reality of American politics, where traditionalists and neo cons want more state control over sexual behavior.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 01:15 PM
That doesn't reflect the reality of American politics, where traditionalists and neo cons want more state control over sexual behavior.

Who wants control over sexual behavior?

KC
11-09-2012, 01:19 PM
Who wants control over sexual behavior?
Anyone who would ban pornography, contraception or homosexuality. These positions are uncommon on the left.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 01:20 PM
Anyone who would ban pornography, contraception or homosexuality. These positions are uncommon on the left.

Who has suggested banning the latter two? Not sure about pornography but that isn't sexual behavior.

KC
11-09-2012, 01:26 PM
Who has suggested banning the latter two? Not sure about pornography but that isn't sexual behavior.

The main use of pornography is sexual behavior. Social conservatives (recently Rick Santorum) wanted it banned. The other two positions have been accepted by most mainstream conservatives, but it is always my hardcore evangelical friends on the right who argue that homosexual behavior and contraceptive use should be banned. I understand that these are fringe right issues, but they certainly aren't left.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 01:32 PM
The main use of pornography is sexual behavior. Social conservatives (recently Rick Santorum) wanted it banned. The other two positions have been accepted by most mainstream conservatives, but it is always my hardcore evangelical friends on the right who argue that homosexual behavior and contraceptive use should be banned. I understand that these are fringe right issues, but they certainly aren't left.

I've never heard of either a ban on homosexuality or contraception being seriously considered by anyone. I've avoided the right/left controversy because I don't think it applies to either. I've never heard anything like what you've described. I have seen people contort opposing viewpoints so to fit that description. For example, no one suggested banning contraception during the Obamacare fiasco but that was precisely how it was presented to the overly credulous.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 01:33 PM
I think that Peter's point was that, from his perspective, statism is left not right. Therefore, state interference in social matters is inherently leftist.

KC
11-09-2012, 01:35 PM
I've never heard of either a ban on homosexuality or contraception being seriously considered by anyone. I've avoided the right/left controversy because I don't think it applies to either. I've never heard anything like what you've described. I have seen people contort opposing viewpoints so to fit that description. For example, no one suggested banning contraception during the Obamacare fiasco but that was precisely how it was presented to the overly credulous.

I remember that D. Not forcing insurance to pay for contraception isn't the same as banning contraception, but liberals suggested it was. However I do know some southern baptists and evangelical Christians that believe that contraception should be illegal.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 01:37 PM
I remember that D. Not forcing insurance to pay for contraception isn't the same as banning contraception, but liberals suggested it was. However I do know some southern baptists and evangelical Christians that believe that contraception should be illegal.

I would not be surprised if that was true. I'll concede the point. Santorum did dance on the edge a bit and probably did not communicate his true beliefs on the matter.

KC
11-09-2012, 01:41 PM
I would not be surprised if that was true. I'll concede the point. Santorum did dance on the edge a bit and probably did not communicate his true beliefs on the matter.
The weird thing is that he was right when he said that states have the right to ban contraception and sodomy, I agree 100%. Should they? Hell no.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 01:42 PM
The weird thing is that he was right when he said that states have the right to ban contraception and sodomy, I agree 100%. Should they? Hell no.

Aren't some state sodomy laws still on the books?

KC
11-09-2012, 01:45 PM
Aren't some state sodomy laws still on the books?

They were struck down by the Supreme Court in 2003.

Chris
11-09-2012, 01:48 PM
I think that Peter's point was that, from his perspective, statism is left not right. Therefore, state interference in social matters is inherently leftist.

May have been his point but statism can be left or right.

KC
11-09-2012, 01:53 PM
Related to the topic we were discussing, Mister D, I have an article on my computer about homosexuality in the interwar period in Czechoslovakia. Even there, sodomy laws were mostly only enforced to take down political enemies. The article I have is about an ethnic German nationalist living in the Sudetenland who was prosecuted for his homoerotic behaviors.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 01:57 PM
If someone wants the government in bedrooms they are statists. Left wing.

Sorry, but the government wanting to be in people's bedrooms based on religion is NOT left wing, neither is trying to use the Bible as the rule of law.

Kabuki Joe
11-09-2012, 01:58 PM
That doesn't reflect the reality of American politics, where traditionalists and neo cons want more state control over sexual behavior.

...so what's wrong with decency?...


Kabuki Joe

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:00 PM
Let me explain why I say "statism can be left or right". First off I don't mean anything related to guns or sex. What I mean when I say both can be statist is with regard to economics. The left tends to advocate central planning largely through taxation to redistribute wealth downward, and the right, when it is statist, tends to advocate central planning largely through regulation to redistribute wealth upward or maintain the status quo. The left seeks trickle up stimuli, the right trickle down. And I should emphasize tends for both sides do both, both engage in crony capitalism where whether you call it corporatism or fascism, power is sucked out of society and into the hands of a few elite rulers.

Kabuki Joe
11-09-2012, 02:00 PM
I remember that D. Not forcing insurance to pay for contraception isn't the same as banning contraception, but liberals suggested it was. However I do know some southern baptists and evangelical Christians that believe that contraception should be illegal.

...and because some do you chastise the whole right side?...


Kabuki Joe

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:01 PM
May have been his point but statism can be left or right.

Haven't you favored a spectrum with individual liberty on the right? Mind you, I'm not taking a side.

coolwalker
11-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Anyone who would ban pornography, contraception or homosexuality. These positions are uncommon on the left.

You can't "ban" homosexuality" and no one wants to ban contraception, just the concept of having the government pay for free rubbers...hell, they cost what, a dollar? As for pornography, it must be moderated and kept from children.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Let me explain why I say "statism can be left or right". First off I don't mean anything related to guns or sex. What I mean when I say both can be statist is with regard to economics. The left tends to advocate central planning largely through taxation to redistribute wealth downward, and the right, when it is statist, tends to advocate central planning largely through regulation to redistribute wealth upward or maintain the status quo. The left seeks trickle up stimuli, the right trickle down. And I should emphasize tends for both sides do both, both engage in crony capitalism where whether you call it corporatism or fascism, power is sucked out of society and into the hands of a few elite rulers.

I see. Disregard previous post.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Simmer down everyone.

roadmaster
11-09-2012, 02:03 PM
Sorry, but the government wanting to be in people's bedrooms based on religion is NOT left wing, neither is trying to use the Bible as the rule of law.

No not really. We could care less what you do in the bedroom because of freedom to choose.

KC
11-09-2012, 02:04 PM
...and because some do you chastise the whole right side?...


Kabuki Joe

Not at all. I'm on the right side, when it comes to economics for the most part. However the folks that do think this way are on the right, not the left.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:05 PM
It's no wonder why some righties here have a problem with left wingers--they actually believe in their heart of hearts that left=totalitarianism right=libertarianism. It's quite the false fantasy some of you right wingers live in.

coolwalker
11-09-2012, 02:05 PM
They were struck down by the Supreme Court in 2003.

Then you haven't been to Virginia my friend. It is illegal here. The state motto is "Virginia is for Lovers" but it should be "Virginia is for Lovers, but only in the missionary position". Get caught or reported in Virginia and there are some very sturdy prisons waiting your arrival.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:06 PM
Related to the topic we were discussing, @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), I have an article on my computer about homosexuality in the interwar period in Czechoslovakia. Even there, sodomy laws were mostly only enforced to take down political enemies. The article I have is about an ethnic German nationalist living in the Sudetenland who was prosecuted for his homoerotic behaviors.


Interesting. The Nazis did the same with Röhm. Attention was called to his sexual escapades but that wasn't the real reason he was eliminated.

patlape
11-09-2012, 02:06 PM
I'm feeling a lot of joy and relief at these election results. We all, the whole country, just barely dodged the bullets of ideological extremism.....plutocracy.......corporatism/fascism.........the crushing of women's rights.......the denial of reality in many areas, such as global warming......and of course, all of that goofy bigoted cult craziness from Romney with that Mormon Elder bizarre political power prophecies of total American domination by Mormons and from Ryan with that wicked cultish AynRandian heartless money/greed worship. One of the important and positive things about these election results, aside from not having to watch my country go down the tubes under the mismanagement of corporate stooges like Romoney & ol' Lying Ryan, is the fact that the rightwingers, especially Romney, based their campaigns on lies and the lies didn't work in the end. Hurray for the American people.

Reality1st, first hello, this is the first post I have seen from you so welcome, I am a new to this site as well.
You have some very strong opinions in your post with out much substanial evidence, would you care to back any of those up with facts?

KC
11-09-2012, 02:06 PM
...so what's wrong with decency?...


Kabuki Joe

Nothing is wrong with socially enforced or individual decency. The only trouble comes when decency is mandated by the state.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:07 PM
No not really. We could care less what you do in the bedroom because of freedom to choose.

Some republicans want to get in people's bedrooms, some would like nothing more than to ban homosexuality--that is NOT a left-wing thing, no matter how you try to stretch it.

KC
11-09-2012, 02:08 PM
Interesting. The Nazis did the same with Röhm. Attention was called to his sexual escapades but that wasn't the real reason he was eliminated.

Yeah, but didn't the Nazis also kill or send homosexuals to concentration camps systematically? Not defending the Nazis (who would?) but at least they were consistent, as far as I can tell.

roadmaster
11-09-2012, 02:09 PM
Not at all. I'm on the right side, when it comes to economics for the most part. However the folks that do think this way are on the right, not the left.
No, the right doesn't want people to tell us what to believe. It will never work on either side.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:11 PM
No, the right doesn't want people to tell us what to believe. It will never work on either side.

The right wants to TELL people what to believe. The right, not the left, are the only ones wanting to combine church and state.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:12 PM
Yeah, but didn't the Nazis also kill or send homosexuals to concentration camps systematically? Not defending the Nazis (who would?) but at least they were consistent, as far as I can tell.

They did but everyone who was someone in the party knew about Rohm's penchant for buggery and did nothing about it. When Rohm became a threat to the movement's leadership his homosexuality became a problem. Granted, it was probably always an embarrassment to them but the fact is that had he not tried to turn Nazism into a real social revolution he would have survived.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:13 PM
The right wants to TELL people what to believe. The right, not the left, are the only ones wanting to combine church and state.

Progressives tell us what to believe all the time.

KC
11-09-2012, 02:13 PM
They did but everyone who was someone in the party knew about Rohm's penchant for buggery and did nothing about it. When Rohm became a threat to the movement's leadership his homosexuality became a problem. Granted, it was probably always an embarrassment to them but the fact is that had he not tried to turn Nazism into a real social revolution he would have survived.

I think I need to do some reading up on Rohm in my spare time.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:14 PM
I think I need to do some reading up on Rohm in my spare time.

The Strasser brothers (Gregor and ?) are more ineresting. Rohm was a thug.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:15 PM
Progressives tell us what to believe all the time.

That doesn't mean that the right DOESN'T. The right does it plenty.

coolwalker
11-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Some republicans want to get in people's bedrooms, some would like nothing more than to ban homosexuality--that is NOT a left-wing thing, no matter how you try to stretch it.

Banning homosexuality isn't an issue...you mean what is termed (laughably) Gay Marriage. Sure, the left wants it because most of Hollywood are butt-_ckers and half the media.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:16 PM
That doesn't mean that the right DOESN'T. The right does it plenty.

true true...

roadmaster
11-09-2012, 02:17 PM
Some republicans want to get in people's bedrooms, some would like nothing more than to ban homosexuality--that is NOT a left-wing thing, no matter how you try to stretch it.

How can you ban homosexuality? We can't even ban a person who wants to kill others. We just won't bend and accept this as Gods will. I can talk to a murderer on death row and not hate him, but I don't accept what he did as Gods will. You are confusing hate with us and it's wrong. Don't hate us because of our beliefs.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:17 PM
Banning homosexuality isn't an issue...you mean what is termed (laughably) Gay Marriage. Sure, the left wants it because most of Hollywood are butt-_ckers and half the media.

No, I'm talking about people who want to ban homosexuality--at one point it was banned throughout the U.S., and it wasn't liberals who wanted it banned.

As far as gay marriage, the right DOESN'T want it because of religion, they want religion to be more important.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:19 PM
How can you ban homosexuality?

The way it has been banned in the past. Read up a little. Homosexual acts have been banned before.


We can't even ban a person who wants to kill others. We just won't bend and accept this as Gods will. I can talk to a murderer on death row and not hate him, but I don't accept what he did as Gods will. You are confusing hate with us and it's wrong. Don't hate us because of our beliefs.
I don't hate you because of your beliefs unless you're trying to stop me from doing something that doesn't hurt anyone else.

roadmaster
11-09-2012, 02:21 PM
No, I'm talking about people who want to ban homosexuality--at one point it was banned throughout the U.S., and it wasn't liberals who wanted it banned.

As far as gay marriage, the right DOESN'T want it because of religion, they want religion to be more important.

We know people will do what they want and was for civil unions and all the rights of married people. We can't change a person but we can't allow people to rule our Church buildings either.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:22 PM
We know people will do what they want and was for civil unions and all the rights of married people. We can't change a person but we can't allow people to rule our Church buildings either.

None of this changes the undeniable FACT that right wingers can be totalitarian and authoritarian, and to pretend otherwise is to ignore reality.

KC
11-09-2012, 02:22 PM
No, I'm talking about people who want to ban homosexuality--at one point it was banned throughout the U.S., and it wasn't liberals who wanted it banned.

As far as gay marriage, the right DOESN'T want it because of religion, they want religion to be more important.

True. Here's a map that shows states with sodomy laws and how they were banned, to further your point.

http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/repeal-of-sodomy-laws-in-the-us.jpg?w=410&h=393

coolwalker
11-09-2012, 02:23 PM
No, I'm talking about people who want to ban homosexuality--at one point it was banned throughout the U.S., and it wasn't liberals who wanted it banned.

As far as gay marriage, the right DOESN'T want it because of religion, they want religion to be more important.
Then you are dredging up a dead issue that a very few people want to bring back. Personally I find homos repulsive if they flit around and do all that stupid lisping. But do I care what the do when alone. Not at all because I can't see it.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Then you are dredging up a dead issue that a very few people want to bring back. Personally I find homos repulsive if they flit around and do all that stupid lisping. But do I care what the do when alone. Not at all because I can't see it.

Righties are trying their hardest to disallow homosexuality from being considered a "normal" thing. Righties like Huckabee and Santorum have been very clear in their intentions on combining church and state--it's not a left-wing thing.

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Haven't you favored a spectrum with individual liberty on the right? Mind you, I'm not taking a side.

http://i.snag.gy/XYyRs.jpg

If you flattened that, I would probably squish over to the right.

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:27 PM
I see. Disregard previous post.

Oops. I would see myself on the right. In that political quiz we looked at a bit ago, I came out right-libertarian.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:27 PM
Opposition to gay marriage need not be religious at all and often isn't. I'm opposed to gay marriage but religion isn't a factor for me in this case.

Carygrant
11-09-2012, 02:28 PM
Pathetic, Reality. Between fraud and buying votes President Obama won the election. I guess this means he gets to dance around his office again, sneering at everyone, and saying, "I won, I won."


You just don't learn .
It is people like you the Reps are now desperate to disassociate themselves from .You are the failed past and until you change your Party will never sit in the White House .

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:28 PM
Opposition to gay marriage need not be religious at all and often isn't. I'm opposed to gay marriage but religion isn't a factor for me in this case.

It usually is though.

Nevertheless, people who want to combine church and state are not liberals.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Oops. I would see myself on the right. In that political quiz we looked at a bit ago, I came out right-libertarian.

I understand. These spectrums are useful only up to a point I guess.

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:30 PM
I understand. These spectrums are useful only up to a point I guess.

They're certainly more helpful than people falsely claiming that only the left can be totalitarian.

coolwalker
11-09-2012, 02:31 PM
Crimes against nature in Virginia:

§ 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.
A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B.
B. Any person who performs or causes to be performed cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus or anal intercourse upon or by his daughter or granddaughter, son or grandson, brother or sister, or father or mother is guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if a parent or grandparent commits any such act with his child or grandchild and such child or grandchild is at least 13 but less than 18 years of age at the time of the offense, such parent or grandparent is guilty of a Class 3 felony.
C. For the purposes of this section, parent includes step-parent, grandparent includes step-grandparent, child includes step-child and grandchild includes step-grandchild.

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:31 PM
It's no wonder why some righties here have a problem with left wingers--they actually believe in their heart of hearts that left=totalitarianism right=libertarianism. It's quite the false fantasy some of you right wingers live in.

Well, a one dimensional left/right dichotomy is easier to conceive and discuss. Adding two dimensions with the Nolan Chart makes things complicated. And three dimensions, oh my God!

http://i.snag.gy/ANiw3.jpg

From Positive & Negative Liberties in Three Dimensions (http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm).

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 02:32 PM
Well, a one dimensional left/right dichotomy is easier to conceive and discuss.
A one-dimensional left/right doesn't reflect reality, especially when righties try to claim that only the left is authoritarian. It's false, it shouldn't be used!

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:33 PM
Well, a one dimensional left/right dichotomy is easier to conceive and discuss. Adding two dimensions with the Nolan Chart makes things complicated. And three dimensions, oh my God!

http://i.snag.gy/ANiw3.jpg

From Positive & Negative Liberties in Three Dimensions (http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm).

Yikes. :sad: :shocked:

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:35 PM
Opposition to gay marriage need not be religious at all and often isn't. I'm opposed to gay marriage but religion isn't a factor for me in this case.

Exactly, I'm libertarian-right agnostic and favor it.

Mister D
11-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Indeed, there are a variety of perspectives.

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:38 PM
A one-dimensional left/right doesn't reflect reality, especially when righties try to claim that only the left is authoritarian. It's false, it shouldn't be used!

Agree, but neither does two, three or more dimensions reflect exactly reality. It's like red and blue America at the state level is purple at the county level. Reality is too complicated, so we need to abstract.

But we agree there are those on the right, just as there are those on the left, who are or favor authoritarianism. Just as there are those on the left and the right who favor the opposite, anarchy. The problem comes in over-abstracting, overgeneralizing.

Chris
11-09-2012, 02:40 PM
You just don't learn .
It is people like you the Reps are now desperate to disassociate themselves from .You are the failed past and until you change your Party will never sit in the White House .

And then there's dimension B, belligerency. :grin:

Kabuki Joe
11-09-2012, 06:08 PM
Nothing is wrong with socially enforced or individual decency. The only trouble comes when decency is mandated by the state.

...boy, that was a lot of nothing...


Kabuki Joe

Kabuki Joe
11-09-2012, 06:27 PM
The right wants to TELL people what to believe. The right, not the left, are the only ones wanting to combine church and state.


...and you don't?...


Kabuki Joe

Kizzume
11-09-2012, 06:56 PM
...and you don't?...


Kabuki Joe

I try not to tell people what they should believe--I won't say I never do. If I think someone's belief wrongly paints an entire group of people as evil, I'm going to point it out. My point is that people on the right do and they're more recently known for wanting to combine church and state (Huckabee, Santorum) and yet somehow, people like Trinnity try to say that it's only the left that has these traits.

Both sides do it. Don't pretend your side doesn't!

Mainecoons
11-09-2012, 07:03 PM
Agree. That is why the right way is the libertarian way.

Carygrant
11-09-2012, 07:50 PM
And then there's dimension B, belligerency. :grin:

I don't believe your type of voice or attitude will be welcomed by any America that wants to really try to minimise the oncoming Tsunami l

KC
11-09-2012, 08:00 PM
...boy, that was a lot of nothing...


Kabuki Joe

How so? There's nothing wrong with asserting socially enforced decency over state enforced decency.

Chris
11-09-2012, 09:03 PM
I don't believe your type of voice or attitude will be welcomed by any America that wants to really try to minimise the oncoming Tsunami l

It was a joke, cary, find a sense of humor for God's sake!

Chris
11-09-2012, 09:04 PM
Agree. That is why the right way is the libertarian way.

Which is the way of liberty, let people alone.

The argument I often here, an absurd one on the face of it, is "why do want to force liberty on me?"

Peter1469
11-09-2012, 11:12 PM
That doesn't reflect the reality of American politics, where traditionalists and neo cons want more state control over sexual behavior.


Sure it does. They are Statists. Let them know where to send their invoices for their jack boots. They shouldn't have to pay for that. You will.