A political double standard

[pjohns]

Just today, on Fox News' program, The Fox News Specialists, Eric Bolling pointed out a glaring double standard: The left loudly decries any poor-taste criticism of a sitting Democratic president; yet it defends as "free speech" anything (that is even worse!) as concerning a sitting Republican president.

Cases in point: In 2013, a rodeo clown wore an Obama mask; and he was summarily dismissed from the rodeo circuit.

Yet when a play in New York, Julius Caerar--which depicts a Trump-like character's being stabbed to death--sees the withdrawal of multiple sponsors, why, the left--including The New York Times--is practically apoplectic:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/arts/delta-airline-trump-public-theater-julius-caesar.html?_r=0

Does anyone else see a double standard here?

[Safety]

Just today, on Fox News' program, The Fox News Specialists, Eric Bolling pointed out a glaring double standard: The left loudly decries any poor-taste criticism of a sitting Democratic president; yet it defends as "free speech" anything (that is even worse!) as concerning a sitting Republican president.

Cases in point: In 2013, a rodeo clown wore an Obama mask; and he was summarily dismissed from the rodeo circuit.

Yet when a play in New York, Julius Caerar--which depicts a Trump-like character's being stabbed to death--sees the withdrawal of multiple sponsors, why, the left--including The New York Times--is practically apoplectic:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/arts/delta-airline-trump-public-theater-julius-caesar.html?_r=0

Does anyone else see a double standard here?

You mean the same double standard that "forced" Delta to pull out of the show when Trump was portrayed as Caesar, but in 2012 they didn't have an issue when it was Obama?

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Delta-Sponsored-2012-Guthrie-Theater-Season-Which-Featured-Obama-Inspired-Julius-Caesar-20170612

[donttread]

Just today, on Fox News' program, The Fox News Specialists, Eric Bolling pointed out a glaring double standard: The left loudly decries any poor-taste criticism of a sitting Democratic president; yet it defends as "free speech" anything (that is even worse!) as concerning a sitting Republican president.

Cases in point: In 2013, a rodeo clown wore an Obama mask; and he was summarily dismissed from the rodeo circuit.

Yet when a play in New York, Julius Caerar--which depicts a Trump-like character's being stabbed to death--sees the withdrawal of multiple sponsors, why, the left--including The New York Times--is practically apoplectic:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/arts/delta-airline-trump-public-theater-julius-caesar.html?_r=0

Does anyone else see a double standard here?

"Double standard? Politics as no standards

[Common]

You mean the same double standard that "forced" Delta to pull out of the show when Trump was portrayed as Caesar, but in 2012 they didn't have an issue when it was Obama?

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Delta-Sponsored-2012-Guthrie-Theater-Season-Which-Featured-Obama-Inspired-Julius-Caesar-20170612
Obama was certainly insulted by the right but its miniscule compared to what the lefts been doing to Trump

Every one in Trumps family has been attacked at one time or another, obama had no fake news created against him, obama enjoyed a press that covered every thing he did by either reporting his glories or avoiding all his failures.

Nothing, Nothing anyone says can change that

[Safety]

Obama was certainly insulted by the right but its miniscule compared to what the lefts been doing to Trump

Every one in Trumps family has been attacked at one time or another, obama had no fake news created against him, obama enjoyed a press that covered every thing he did by either reporting his glories or avoiding all his failures.

Nothing, Nothing anyone says can change that

Obama had no fake news created against him? Really?

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-claims-obama-planning-communist-coup-conspiracy-theories-featured-snippets-2017-3
http://www.business2community.com/government-politics/barack-obamas-drug-stash-found-donald-trumps-personal-housekeeper-fake-news-01848712#lAohm4zr3YdIKfAo.97

And let's not forget Jade Helm, or the homeland secruity buying all the ammo because they will send citizens to internment camps...

Trump has enjoyed basically a walk in the park compared to Obama.

[Dr. Who]

Obama was certainly insulted by the right but its miniscule compared to what the lefts been doing to Trump

Every one in Trumps family has been attacked at one time or another, obama had no fake news created against him, obama enjoyed a press that covered every thing he did by either reporting his glories or avoiding all his failures.

Nothing, Nothing anyone says can change that
Imagine if Hillary had won. Do you think the media of the right would have let emailgate go, or would it actually have taken on even more gargantuan proportions post-election? It's what they do. It's what passes for news these days.

As the song "Suspicious Mind" says:


We can't go on together

With suspicious minds (suspicious minds)

And we can't build our dreams

On suspicious minds....

[hanger4]

You mean the same double standard that "forced" Delta to pull out of the show when Trump was portrayed as Caesar, but in 2012 they didn't have an issue when it was Obama?

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Delta-Sponsored-2012-Guthrie-Theater-Season-Which-Featured-Obama-Inspired-Julius-Caesar-20170612

Probably not, from your link;

A Guthrie representative told BroadwayWorld that "Delta was a season sponsor of our mainstage season that year; the support didn't include productions in the Dowling Studio, which is where JULIUS CAESAR was produced."

[Safety]

Probably not, from your link;

A Guthrie representative told BroadwayWorld that "Delta was a season sponsor of our mainstage season that year; the support didn't include productions in the Dowling Studio, which is where JULIUS CAESAR was produced."

Produced? How about where the play was held, want another link?


But Delta offered no such admonition of the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis, which mounted a production of the Shakespeare play that depicted Julius Caesar as Obama. According to Kathy Kukielka, director of Institutional Giving at the Guthrie, the airline was donating anywhere from $100,000 to $249,000 to the theater annually at the time of the production. It continues to donate to the theater at this level.

But Delta offered no such admonition of the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis, which mounted a production of the Shakespeare play that depicted Julius Caesar as Obama. According to Kathy Kukielka, director of Institutional Giving at the Guthrie, the airline was donating anywhere from $100,000 to $249,000 to the theater annually at the time of the production. It continues to donate to the theater at this level.

https://mic.com/articles/179638/delta-doesnt-pull-funding-from-theater-that-depicted-julius-caesar-as-then-president-obama#.7qJxxQVpf

Here's a screenshot just to squash any doubts...

18311

[Crepitus]

Just today, on Fox News' program, The Fox News Specialists, Eric Bolling pointed out a glaring double standard: The left loudly decries any poor-taste criticism of a sitting Democratic president; yet it defends as "free speech" anything (that is even worse!) as concerning a sitting Republican president.

Cases in point: In 2013, a rodeo clown wore an Obama mask; and he was summarily dismissed from the rodeo circuit.

Yet when a play in New York, Julius Caerar--which depicts a Trump-like character's being stabbed to death--sees the withdrawal of multiple sponsors, why, the left--including The New York Times--is practically apoplectic:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/arts/delta-airline-trump-public-theater-julius-caesar.html?_r=0

Does anyone else see a double standard here?

Really? Has anyone accused him of being gay yet? Or how about questioned his nationality? Said his kids weren't his? Accused him of being married to a pre-op transsexual? Called him a terrorist? Questioned his religion? Do I really need to go on?

[MisterVeritis]

This thread reminds me we are heading for a shooting, civil war. Arm up. Train up. Band together.

[midcan5]

Pjohns just adores Donald and he wishes he too could be among the blessed sitting at Donnie's feet. Yuk. Man up for christs sake.

[Chris]

Those with double standards will triple down to deny it.

[Crepitus]

This thread reminds me we are heading for a shooting, civil war. Arm up. Train up. Band together.

You should stop. You sound too eager for that kinda thing.

[Chris]

This thread reminds me we are heading for a shooting, civil war. Arm up. Train up. Band together.

Dennis Prager Adopts Leftist Rhetoric In Calling Trump-Era Politics ‘A Civil War’ (https://thefederalist.com/2017/06/12/dennis-prager-adopts-leftist-rhetoric-calling-trump-era-politics-civil-war/)

[Safety]

You should stop. You sound too eager for that kinda thing.

Internet commando.

[Crepitus]

Internet commando.

I agree.

[MisterVeritis]

This thread reminds me we are heading for a shooting, civil war. Arm up. Train up. Band together.

You should stop. You sound too eager for that kinda thing.
Consider it fair warning. It is coming.

[MisterVeritis]

Internet commando.
You will be one of the Buffoonkins who wonders what happened.

[Safety]

You will be one of the Buffoonkins who wonders what happened.

Please think that.

[Crepitus]

This thread reminds me we are heading for a shooting, civil war. Arm up. Train up. Band together.

Consider it fair warning. It is coming.

I have absolutely no fear of you or your braggadocious ilk

[Adelaide]

Obama was certainly insulted by the right but its miniscule compared to what the lefts been doing to Trump

Every one in Trumps family has been attacked at one time or another, obama had no fake news created against him, obama enjoyed a press that covered every thing he did by either reporting his glories or avoiding all his failures.

Nothing, Nothing anyone says can change that

Oh, come on.

They both seem to be getting the same type of treatment. I don't remember what Bush 43's first 100 days were like since I was 11, but I think that people seem to have gotten worse but have maintained it throughout both Obama's presidency and the beginning of Trump's. Trump has also supplied a lot of material that Obama never did, such as the angry tweets.

[del]

Just today, on Fox News' program, The Fox News Specialists, Eric Bolling pointed out a glaring double standard: The left loudly decries any poor-taste criticism of a sitting Democratic president; yet it defends as "free speech" anything (that is even worse!) as concerning a sitting Republican president.

Cases in point: In 2013, a rodeo clown wore an Obama mask; and he was summarily dismissed from the rodeo circuit.

Yet when a play in New York, Julius Caerar--which depicts a Trump-like character's being stabbed to death--sees the withdrawal of multiple sponsors, why, the left--including The New York Times--is practically apoplectic:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/11/arts/delta-airline-trump-public-theater-julius-caesar.html?_r=0

Does anyone else see a double standard here?
there is nothing remotely *trump-like* about julius caesar

it's a play about a statesman, soldier and philosopher

you're thinking of much ado about nothing

[Crepitus]

Oh, come on.

They both seem to be getting the same type of treatment. I don't remember what Bush 43's first 100 days were like since I was 11, but I think that people seem to have gotten worse but have maintained it throughout both Obama's presidency and the beginning of Trump's. Trump has also supplied a lot of material that Obama never did, such as the angry tweets.

Don't forget the squirrel toupee and orange skin dye job.

[Chris]

Oh, come on.

They both seem to be getting the same type of treatment. I don't remember what Bush 43's first 100 days were like since I was 11, but I think that people seem to have gotten worse but have maintained it throughout both Obama's presidency and the beginning of Trump's. Trump has also supplied a lot of material that Obama never did, such as the angry tweets.

Trump's a troll.

Thing I hated was arguing with Obama's policy was always twisted into attacking him personally if not racially.

[Green Arrow]

The double standard exists on both sides. The quicker we learn that the better off we'll all be.

[Safety]

Trump's a troll.

Thing I hated was arguing with Obama's policy was always twisted into attacking him personally if not racially.

Kinda like how unconstitutional Obama's executive orders were, but not how Trumps were unconstitutional.....thank god we have a court system to show who were arguing based upon emotions.

[Chris]

Kinda like how unconstitutional Obama's executive orders were, but not how Trumps were unconstitutional.....thank god we have a court system to show who were arguing based upon emotions.

Why the tu quoque when they're both unconstitutional?

[Safety]

Why the tu quoque when they're both unconstitutional?

Notice how I said how Obama's were unconstitutional. Meaning the people I'm referring to said they were unconstitutional, but not a peep from the same ones about constitutionality when the actual court rules against Trump's EOs. Figured it was self explanatory.

[Chris]

Notice how I said how Obama's were unconstitutional. Meaning the people I'm referring to said they were unconstitutional, but not a peep from the same ones about constitutionality when the actual court rules against Trump's EOs. Figured it was self explanatory.

No idea whom you're referring to.

[Dr. Who]

No idea whom you're referring to.
Perhaps the enthralled Trump supporters who turn a blind eye to his playing fast and loose with the constitution. Just a guess.

[pjohns]

You mean the same double standard that "forced" Delta to pull out of the show when Trump was portrayed as Caesar, but in 2012 they didn't have an issue when it was Obama?

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Delta-Sponsored-2012-Guthrie-Theater-Season-Which-Featured-Obama-Inspired-Julius-Caesar-20170612

Although I was not aware of any such inference in 2012, I do find it in horrible taste--to say the least.

One may strongly dislike the sitting president--in 2012, that was Barack Obama--without hoping that he will be assassinated.

But I would not want you to be entrapped in a tu quoque fallacy.

So I will give you another chance to answer: Do you find this just as disheartening (and just as much of a double standard) as I do?

[Safety]

Although I was not aware of any such inference in 2012, I do find it in horrible taste--to say the least.

One may strongly dislike the sitting president--in 2012, that was Barack Obama--without hoping that he will be assassinated.

But I would not want you to be entrapped in a tu quoque fallacy.

So I will give you another chance to answer: Do you find this just as disheartening (and just as much of a double standard) as I do?

Call it what you will, I will call it like I see it. Like most things that happen in this country, people are only aware of things they read or see, like how outraged many are about Kathy Griffin and her stupid Trump beheading meme, but the lack of outrage over the many Obama effigies of him hanging or being lynched.

Tu quoque is what happens when you expect people to be outraged simply because you are outraged.

[pjohns]

Imagine if Hillary had won. Do you think the media of the right would have let emailgate go, or would it actually have taken on even more gargantuan proportions post-election?
Speculation.

Mere speculation.

I would prefer to stick to the actual facts...

[pjohns]

Produced? How about where the play was held, want another link?



But Delta offered no such admonition of the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis, which mounted a production of the Shakespeare play that depicted Julius Caesar as Obama. According to Kathy Kukielka, director of Institutional Giving at the Guthrie, the airline was donating anywhere from $100,000 to $249,000 to the theater annually at the time of the production. It continues to donate to the theater at this level.

https://mic.com/articles/179638/delta-doesnt-pull-funding-from-theater-that-depicted-julius-caesar-as-then-president-obama#.7qJxxQVpf

Here's a screenshot just to squash any doubts...

18311
Are you suggesting that both were wrong?

Or that two wrongs make one right?

(By the way, the latter is a logical fallacy.)

[Dr. Who]

Speculation.

Mere speculation.

I would prefer to stick to the actual facts...
If you know who the media are, it's not a stretch. Look at the politcial affilations of the owners of Fox News. Do they care, no. It's about the money and market share. Let's not be naive.

[Crepitus]

Speculation.

Mere speculation.

I would prefer to stick to the actual facts...

I prefer to stick to reality.

[pjohns]

Pjohns just adores Donald and he wishes he too could be among the blessed sitting at Donnie's feet.
You badly misjudge me. (That is, unless you are just claiming that in order to attempt to insult me.)

Of the 17 candidates in the Republican field in the primaries, Donald Trump was my seventeenth-favorite.

And I attempted--less than a month ago--to give a balanced view of the man, in this forum: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/83064-Donald-Trump

But I suppose that you would rather pretend otherwise...

[del]

presidents portrayed as julius caesar in us productions: lincoln, reagan, clinton, bush ii, obama, trump.

(caesar died in all of them.)

[Tahuyaman]

I prefer to stick to reality. On which planet?

[Safety]

presidents portrayed as julius caesar in us productions: lincoln, reagan, clinton, bush ii, obama, trump.

(caesar died in all of them.)

But Trump is the one they whine about...pretty telling.

[Crepitus]

But Trump is the one they whine about...pretty telling.

Snowflakes.

[Captain Obvious]

Wearing an O'bammy mask was an insult to the rodeo clown profession.

Case closed.

[Chris]

Call it what you will, I will call it like I see it. Like most things that happen in this country, people are only aware of things they read or see, like how outraged many are about Kathy Griffin and her stupid Trump beheading meme, but the lack of outrage over the many Obama effigies of him hanging or being lynched.

Tu quoque is what happens when you expect people to be outraged simply because you are outraged.


Huh?

From An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments (https://bookofbadarguments.com/)

https://i.snag.gy/Hvx9sT.jpg

[pjohns]

Really? Has anyone accused him of being gay yet? Or how about questioned his nationality? Said his kids weren't his? Accused him of being married to a pre-op transsexual? Called him a terrorist? Questioned his religion? Do I really need to go on?

And just what, exactly, does this have to do with the double standard of the left's celebrating it as just "free speech" whenever the left does something hateful as concerning a sitting Republican president; yet is enormously aggrieved whenever the right does even less (as, for instance, with the fired rodeo clown, wearing an Obama mask) as concerning a sitting Democratic president?

[Crepitus]

And just what, exactly, does this have to do with the double standard of the left's celebrating it as just "free speech" whenever the left does something hateful as concerning a sitting Republican president; yet is enormously aggrieved whenever the right does even less (as, for instance, with the fired rodeo clown, wearing an Obama mask) as concerning a sitting Democratic president?

Lol, missed the point.

[pjohns]

I am a thoroughgoing capitalist; but capitalism--just by definition--is not really steeped in morality. Rather, it is steeped in self-interest.

If a company believes that it can do better, financially, by continuing to sponsor a play, it will do so.

If a company believes that it can do better, financially, by declining to sponsor a play, it will do that.

What I find interesting is the fact that the left sees it as "free speech" if a sponsor pulls any support for the right (or even if a rodeo clown is axed), but is altogether beside itself if it is a sponsor of some leftist production that is thereby harmed...

[pjohns]

Dennis Prager Adopts Leftist Rhetoric In Calling Trump-Era Politics ‘A Civil War’ (https://thefederalist.com/2017/06/12/dennis-prager-adopts-leftist-rhetoric-calling-trump-era-politics-civil-war/)

For the most part, it is good reading.

However, I reside in Tennessee; and it is simply mistaken to declare that Tennessee was persuaded to remain in the Union: It was the eleventh (and last) state to join the Confederacy.

Note: The state's allegiances were nonetheless split: East Tennessee was loyal to Lincoln (and therefore Union territory), whereas west Tennessee was strongly Confederate. Middle Tennessee (no, there is no such thing as "central" Tennessee) was somewhere in between; but its sentiments leaned toward the Confederacy.

[pjohns]

Oh, come on.

They both seem to be getting the same type of treatment. I don't remember what Bush 43's first 100 days were like since I was 11, but I think that people seem to have gotten worse but have maintained it throughout both Obama's presidency and the beginning of Trump's. Trump has also supplied a lot of material that Obama never did, such as the angry tweets.
As to the tweets, you are certainly correct: With these, Donald Trump has brought some of the misery upon himself.

But I think that there are also many who have never accepted the man as our legitimate president--and who never will--and who are busily doing all they can to undermine his presidency. (The Democrats' strategy, for instance, is to refuse to work with him--perhaps in the hope of energizing their base, and thereby taking control of one or more chambers after the 2018 midterms--and the left in general wishes to "resist" the man.)

[pjohns]

there is nothing remotely *trump-like* about julius caesarg
Well, he certainly has an appearance similar to that of Donald Trump.

And his wife has a noticeable Slavic accent.

I am thinking that only a blind partisan would ignore those facts...

[pjohns]

Kinda like how unconstitutional Obama's executive orders were, but not how Trumps were unconstitutional
I have said, from the beginning, that any executive orders issued by Donald Trump that explicitly undo the executive orders of Barack Obama are a good thing; whereas anything that intentionally circumvents the Congress is much more problematic...

[pjohns]

If you know who the media are, it's not a stretch. Look at the politcial affilations of the owners of Fox News. Do they care, no. It's about the money and market share. Let's not be naive.
Well, let's see.

The center-left has ABC; NBC; CBS; CNN; MSNBC; The New York Times; the Washington Post; etc.

The center-right, by contrast, has Fox News.

Gee, I suppose that means that the center-right has an unfair influence in America...

[pjohns]

I prefer to stick to reality.

Instead of facts?

Some people might find that to be a distinction without a difference...

[pjohns]

Lol, missed the point.
Yes, I think you did...

[Crepitus]

Instead of facts?

Some people might find that to be a distinction without a difference...

Since the Trump administration introduced us to alternative facts I think reality is the only way to go.

[pjohns]

Since the Trump administration introduced us to alternative facts I think reality is the only way to go.

Someone who is not a blind partisan would probably realize that the phrase, "alternative facts," although clumsy and imprecise, surely meant alternative views--as, say, a Methodist and a Presbyterian have.

[resister]

Trump has enjoyed basically a walk in the park compared to Obama. SUPER LOL! Are you f'n serious?

[Dr. Who]

Well, let's see.

The center-left has ABC; NBC; CBS; CNN; MSNBC; The New York Times; the Washington Post; etc.

The center-right, by contrast, has Fox News.

Gee, I suppose that means that the center-right has an unfair influence in America...
Perhaps the media favors the left because the left favors the media.

[Mister D]

Perhaps the media favors the left because the left favors the media.
In so far as they espouse the same ideas, sure.

[Crepitus]

Someone who is not a blind partisan would probably realize that the phrase, "alternative facts," although clumsy and imprecise, surely meant alternative views--as, say, a Methodist and a Presbyterian have.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Conway meant.

[Dr. Who]

In so far as they espouse the same ideas, sure.
Or they are bigger consumers of the news than the right.

[Mister D]

Or they are bigger consumers of the news than the right.
But then that couldn't explain the popularity of Fox News which dominated the market for a very long time.

[Dr. Who]

But then that couldn't explain the popularity of Fox News which dominated the market for a very long time.
The left is interested in opposing opinion, so they also watch Fox. The left leaning media would not be investing all of their efforts in left leaning stories if they were not profiting from it. Anyone who thinks that the principals of any media organization are driven by anything other than making money is deluded. Fox attracted viewers of all persuasions because of their promotion of talking head programming, the right watching to agree and the left watching to scream at the television set. However Fox's popularity really increased during the last administration and now that the Reps are in charge, they have lost their mojo. They are now on the winning side, which doesn't make for interesting talking head shows. There is no one to rage against in government and raging against the population doesn't boost ratings so they are now losing market share.

[pjohns]

Perhaps the media favors the left because the left favors the media.

Whereas it is certainly true that Donald Trump has spoken intemperately of the media--even going so far as to characterize them as the "enemy" of the American people--this is not the case with conservatives in general.

No, ABC; NBC; CBS; CNN; MSNBC; The New York Times; the Washington Post; the Chicago Tribune; et al. were left-leaning long before Donald Trump arrived on the scene.

[pjohns]

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's not what Conway meant.
Would you care to elaborate, please?

[pjohns]

The left is interested in opposing opinion, so they also watch Fox.
Oh, so the left "is interested in opposing opinion" but the right is interested only in confirmation bias (which, by the way, is a logical fallacy).

Got it..

Well, sorta-kinda, anyway...

[Crepitus]

Would you care to elaborate, please?

Oh come on. She used the term "alternative facts" to explain the attendance at the trump inauguration. Those numbers are not open to different interpretation. The numbers are what they are.

[Dr. Who]

Whereas it is certainly true that Donald Trump has spoken intemperately of the media--even going so far as to characterize them as the "enemy" of the American people--this is not the case with conservatives in general.

No, ABC; NBC; CBS; CNN; MSNBC; The New York Times; the Washington Post; the Chicago Tribune; et al. were left-leaning long before Donald Trump arrived on the scene.
Let's put it this way, who do you think has traditionally been the greater consumers of the news in all of its forms, the rural demographic or urban demographic? Where do the left live and where do the right live? Traditionally, to whom do the biggest press organizations owe their success, the big cities or rural America?

[Dr. Who]

Oh, so the left "is interested in opposing opinion" but the right is interested only in confirmation bias (which, by the way, is a logical fallacy).

Got it..

Well, sorta-kinda, anyway...
Those are your words not mine. I just said that the left also watch Fox, sometimes just to yell at the TV set, but whatever.