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Ethereal
06-17-2017, 02:33 PM
As many of you know, I've very critical of police in America. But what you may not know is that my criticism is not driven by "hatred" for the police. One of my friends in a police officer. I don't hate him at all. Nor do I think all police are bad or useless. I know there are good and very useful police. The problem, as I see it, is that there are simply too many police enforcing too many unjust rules. The war on drugs is obviously the biggest problem with America's police forces. Not only is it a massive assault on individual liberty and the bill of rights, but it's incredibly expensive. I deeply resent being made to pay for my own oppression, as do millions of other Americans. I also believe it is incredibly unethical to throw someone into a cage simply because they buy or sell drugs to other consenting adults. This is supposed to be a free country, not a nanny-state run by moralizing busy bodies. The next biggest problem are all the traffic rules and regulations. I'm not saying we shouldn't have rules of the road. I'm just saying the overriding concern at this point is generating revenue and not necessarily making the roadways safer or more efficient. Almost every time I've interacted with police, it has been due some traffic violation for which I'm force to pay $50, $60, $70, etc. But it was always some petty offense like driving a few miles an hour over the speed limit, gingerly rolling through a stop sign when no one else was around, having my bumper stick a couple inches over some line on the curb, etc. In almost every case, there was no immediate danger or inconvenience to others. It was just about getting money from me. All I want cops to do in America is to police violent crimes like murders, rapes, theft, property damage, etc. and to interdict behavior that creates imminent danger to other people. As long as they are acting beyond that minimal mandate, then people are going to continue to resent the institution of policing in America.

Peter1469
06-17-2017, 03:03 PM
My issues with law enforcement is the militarization in many places.

And the habit of using traffic laws to fund local governments.

I drive in Virginia, Maryland, and DC every work day. And there is a lot of b.s. traffic traps to fill local coffers.

Ethereal
06-17-2017, 03:06 PM
My issues with law enforcement is the militarization in many places.

And the habit of using traffic laws to fund local governments.

I drive in Virginia, Maryland, and DC every work day. And there is a lot of b.s. traffic traps to fill local coffers.
Yes, we already pay taxes, so using fines and fees as a source of funding is perverse and insulting.

Peter1469
06-17-2017, 03:14 PM
Yes, we already pay taxes, so using fines and fees as a source of funding is perverse and insulting.

I got to prosecute all civil offenses on Ft Drum when I was there- to include traffic, DUI, etc. Our federal magistrate was pretty cool. But he told me, and the MPs not to use bull shit tactics to create revenue. He would toss out any ticket if the cop was at the bottom of a hill. He even got fed up with particular MPs and I would have to tell the Provost Marshal that a certain MP is wasting his/her time writing tickets- our Magistrate will toss them out.

I actually was the only JAG he got along with.

jimmyz
06-17-2017, 04:01 PM
My issues with law enforcement is the militarization in many places.

And the habit of using traffic laws to fund local governments.

I drive in Virginia, Maryland, and DC every work day. And there is a lot of b.s. traffic traps to fill local coffers.
^^^ This

The tickets are less about protecting other drivers and more about producing a large revenue stream for the PD, courts and municipalities.

Tahuyaman
06-17-2017, 04:34 PM
My issues with law enforcement is the militarization in many places.

And the habit of using traffic laws to fund local governments.

I drive in Virginia, Maryland, and DC every work day. And there is a lot of b.s. traffic traps to fill local coffers.

I agree with that. Add in the cameras at intersections. They are not there to enhance safety, but generate revenues.


I had 14 years experience in law enforcement when I resigned. We don't have too many police officers enforcing unjust laws. Most officers use their disgression when doing their job.


My biggest problem was with some of my co workers in law enforcement. A disturbing number were impressed with themselves and didn't have the maturity or life experience to exercise their digression reasonably. Some have a need to exert their authority. They often created a problem where none existed.

Peter1469
06-17-2017, 04:38 PM
I agree with that. Add in the cameras at intersections. They are not there to enhance safety, but generate revenues.


I had 14 years experience in law enforcement when I resigned. We don't have too many police officers enforcing unjust laws. Most officers use their disgression when doing their job.


My biggest problem was with some of my co workers in law enforcement. A disturbing number were impressed with themselves and didn't have the maturity or life experience to exercise their digression reasonably. Some have a need to exert their authority. They often created a problem where none existed.
I have toyed with LEOs in the past. I told one that his ticket for my speeding would be taken care of. On court day I walked in and all the tickets were sitting on the bench next to the judge. I picked the stack up and took my ticket w/ license and walked out. The cop who gave me the ticket was sitting there and said nothing. Not sure why.

resister
06-17-2017, 04:40 PM
I have been unduly harassed several times in my life, once here in this little town, searched against my consent in a public place for no reason and ordered to leave or I would be charged with trespassing loitering and prowling. I did not report it, that would just make me a target, you don't want em getting a hard on for you in a little town.

I laughed as I left, he looked directly at an exploding percussion sling bullet and the maroon had no clue.

jimmyz
06-17-2017, 04:41 PM
I have toyed with LEOs in the past. I told one that his ticket for my speeding would be taken care of. On court day I walked in and all the tickets were sitting on the bench next to the judge. I picked the stack up and took my ticket w/ license and walked out. The cop who gave me the ticket was sitting there and said nothing. Not sure why.

Holy crap! Ballsy move sir.

Peter1469
06-17-2017, 04:42 PM
Holy crap! Ballsy move sir.


Yes. Had I gotten caught I would never have been allowed my law license.

jimmyz
06-17-2017, 04:42 PM
I have been unduly harassed several times in my life, once here in this little town, searched against my consent in a public place for no reason and ordered to leave or I would be charged with trespassing loitering and prowling. I did not report it, that would just make me a target, you don't want em getting a hard on for you in a little town.

Your upcoming make-over will give you a more respectable look to Crackerville police.

I laughed as I left, he looked directly at an exploding percussion sling bullet and the maroon had no clue.

Peter1469
06-17-2017, 04:43 PM
Act like you belong and you can do all sorts of things in any environment.

Mister D
06-17-2017, 04:43 PM
I agree with that. Add in the cameras at intersections. They are not there to enhance safety, but generate revenues.


I had 14 years experience in law enforcement when I resigned. We don't have too many police officers enforcing unjust laws. Most officers use their disgression when doing their job.


My biggest problem was with some of my co workers in law enforcement. A disturbing number were impressed with themselves and didn't have the maturity or life experience to exercise their digression reasonably. Some have a need to exert their authority. They often created a problem where none existed.
Yeah, my experience has been with local cops for the most part but their egos tend to get in the way of their public service. The NJ State Police, OTOH, are more professional in my experience.

resister
06-17-2017, 04:44 PM
Did you have anything to add Jimmy? Otherwise, why quote me?:huh:

Mister D
06-17-2017, 04:49 PM
I got a ticket a few years back from a State Trooper. I was speeding (85) and pushing the envelope too far for the NJ Parkway. They usually won't stop you for 70-75. He was cool though and gave me a ticket for reckless driving. Fine. I deserved it. Anyway, I tried to pay the fine online but I was declined. I had to make a court appearance. So I had to take a day off and sit at court for 5 hours. I get to the Prosecutor and he's like "it looks like the cop gave you a break...why are you fighting this?" I said I'm not. I tried to pay online and was refused. He rolls his eyes. Our tax dollars at work.

spunkloaf
06-17-2017, 05:04 PM
The cops are also killing people for no good reason. There are reasons, but they are bad reasons. Most of it is on their fear for their own lives. But they are too trigger happy.

I am so glad I am not black, I'd probably be dead.

A month ago, I got a flat tire on my way to work. While I was waiting in my car for help, a police officer stopped by. He was not there to help me. He was there to jerk me around, and threaten me. As he got close to my driver door, he stayed waaaaaaay towards the back of the car, with his hand on his gun, and asked me what I was doing, sitting there...apparently the spare tire next to my car was not a good enough clue for him. When I told him I had a flat tire, he went around to the other side to see if I was telling him the truth. Then he asked me how long I was going to be. I told him I didn't know for sure, somebody is on the way. (now before you jump down my throat, and give me grief about it...I know how to fix a fricken flat tire. I just could not fit the jack underneath the car.) So then the a$$hole told me that he was going to come back in a half hour, and if I was still sitting there, he was going to have my car towed to an impound lot. You know what that means. I would have to pay about $500 to get my car back. And if I resisted it, I would have gotten arrested.

Cops are dicks, and they kill people.

Mister D
06-17-2017, 05:06 PM
Spunk is a little upset. They've only got 8 black people in MN and the cops just smoked one of them so now it's a less diverse state.

resister
06-17-2017, 05:07 PM
The cops are also killing people for no good reason. There are reasons, but they are bad reasons. Most of it is on their fear for their own lives. But they are too trigger happy.

I am so glad I am not black, I'd probably be dead.

A month ago, I got a flat tire on my way to work. While I was waiting in my car for help, a police officer stopped by. He was not there to help me. He was there to jerk me around, and threaten me. As he got close to my driver door, he stayed waaaaaaay towards the back of the car, with his hand on his gun, and asked me what I was doing, sitting there...apparently the spare tire next to my car was not a good enough clue for him. When I told him I had a flat tire, he went around to the other side to see if I was telling him the truth. Then he asked me how long I was going to be. I told him I didn't know for sure, somebody is on the way. (now before you jump down my throat, and give me grief about it...I know how to fix a fricken flat tire. I just could not fit the jack underneath the car.) So then the a$$hole told me that he was going to come back in a half hour, and if I was still sitting there, he was going to have my car towed to an impound lot. You know what that means. I would have to pay about $500 to get my car back. And if I resisted it, I would have gotten arrested.

Cops are dicks, and they kill people.
If you were not obstructing traffic, I don't see how he could.

spunkloaf
06-17-2017, 05:08 PM
Spunk is a little upset. They've only got 8 black people in MN and the cops just smoked one of them so now it's a less diverse state.

That's all black people are to you, D, an annoying statistic.

Mister D
06-17-2017, 05:11 PM
That's all black people are to you, D, an annoying statistic.
I'm not really sure what that means but as far as your being black is concerned I can't really blame you considering how homophobic the black community is.

Tahuyaman
06-17-2017, 05:42 PM
Spunkloaf discredits those with a legitamate gripe.

Mister D
06-17-2017, 05:47 PM
Spunkloaf discredits those with a legitamate gripe.
Unfortunately, yes, he does. Worse still, people like Spunk alienate people who would otherwise be reachable.

Tahuyaman
06-17-2017, 05:51 PM
For some reason, there's now this need to hyperbolize everything. It seems like there are a significant number of people who can't make their point within reasonable bounds. They need to shock and insult people. I don't know what they are hoping to accomplish.

Mister D
06-17-2017, 05:55 PM
For some reason, there's now this need to hyperbolize everything. It seems like there are a significant number of people who can't make their point within reasonable bounds. They need to shock and insult people. I don't know what they are hoping to accomplish.
Yeah, I've noticed that too. People really ought to think twice about how exactly they express themselves.

resister
06-17-2017, 06:10 PM
For some reason, there's now this need to hyperbolize everything. It seems like there are a significant number of people who can't make their point within reasonable bounds. They need to shock and insult people. I don't know what they are hoping to accomplish.
TDS is very real, we can see it on this forum. These types of people are a real threat.

We saw an example the other day in Virginia.

Tahuyaman
06-17-2017, 06:13 PM
Yeah, I've noticed that too. People really ought to think twice about how exactly they express themselves.

Some will and some won't. I can accurately predict who will and who won't.

Ethereal
06-17-2017, 06:28 PM
We don't have too many police officers enforcing unjust laws.

Conservatives love to complain about "big government", but for some reason they never make the connection between big government and its enforcement agencies.

Tahuyaman
06-17-2017, 06:33 PM
Supporting limited government isn't defined as advocating big government.

Ethereal
06-17-2017, 06:38 PM
Supporting limited government isn't defined as advocating big government.
I never said it was.

Tahuyaman
06-17-2017, 11:46 PM
I never said it was.


You consistently make some odd leaps, then back away from them.


I generally dismiss you as a garden variety malcontent anyway, so.....

donttread
06-18-2017, 06:48 AM
As many of you know, I've very critical of police in America. But what you may not know is that my criticism is not driven by "hatred" for the police. One of my friends in a police officer. I don't hate him at all. Nor do I think all police are bad or useless. I know there are good and very useful police. The problem, as I see it, is that there are simply too many police enforcing too many unjust rules. The war on drugs is obviously the biggest problem with America's police forces. Not only is it a massive assault on individual liberty and the bill of rights, but it's incredibly expensive. I deeply resent being made to pay for my own oppression, as do millions of other Americans. I also believe it is incredibly unethical to throw someone into a cage simply because they buy or sell drugs to other consenting adults. This is supposed to be a free country, not a nanny-state run by moralizing busy bodies. The next biggest problem are all the traffic rules and regulations. I'm not saying we shouldn't have rules of the road. I'm just saying the overriding concern at this point is generating revenue and not necessarily making the roadways safer or more efficient. Almost every time I've interacted with police, it has been due some traffic violation for which I'm force to pay $50, $60, $70, etc. But it was always some petty offense like driving a few miles an hour over the speed limit, gingerly rolling through a stop sign when no one else was around, having my bumper stick a couple inches over some line on the curb, etc. In almost every case, there was no immediate danger or inconvenience to others. It was just about getting money from me. All I want cops to do in America is to police violent crimes like murders, rapes, theft, property damage, etc. and to interdict behavior that creates imminent danger to other people. As long as they are acting beyond that minimal mandate, then people are going to continue to resent the institution of policing in America.

We keep electing "law makers" despite already having more laws than we need. What you describe is in part the result of that.

Peter1469
06-18-2017, 07:38 AM
We keep electing "law makers" despite already having more laws than we need. What you describe is in part the result of that.
Voters apparently don't want limited government.

donttread
06-18-2017, 12:11 PM
Voters apparently don't want limited government.

Don't want it? Hell half of them don't even know that limited government is an option

Ethereal
06-18-2017, 01:04 PM
You consistently make some odd leaps, then back away from them.

You consistently say things that make no sense, then double down on them after someone corrects you.


I generally dismiss you as a garden variety malcontent anyway, so.....

And I generally dismiss you as a garden variety imbecile with the reading comprehension of a fourth grader.

Tahuyaman
06-18-2017, 02:39 PM
You consistently say things that make no sense, then double down on them after someone corrects you.



And I generally dismiss you as a garden variety imbecile with the reading comprehension of a fourth grader. You are basically a troll, but one who thinks he's more sophisticated than the others.

Bethere
06-18-2017, 05:38 PM
You are basically a troll, but one who thinks he's more sophisticated than the others.

Good times!​tm

Tahuyaman
06-18-2017, 05:44 PM
Good times!​tm

whatever....

resister
06-18-2017, 05:45 PM
Good times!​tm
Some one is bored and doing their best to stoke a fire for his entertainment :rollseyes:

Tahuyaman
06-18-2017, 05:51 PM
You are basically a troll, but one who thinks he's more sophisticated than the others.


Some one is bored and doing their best to stoke a fire for his entertainment :rollseyes:
I meant that. Ethereal is a sanctimonious troll.

resister
06-18-2017, 06:03 PM
I meant that. Ethereal is a sanctimonious troll.
I was referring to Bethere feeling the need to bump the thread after several hours.

jimmyz
06-19-2017, 01:03 PM
Did you have anything to add Jimmy? Otherwise, why quote me?:huh:

Ops. My post was embedded in yours. My mistake.

This is what it was, "Your upcoming make-over will give you a more respectable look to Crackerville police."

resister
06-19-2017, 01:06 PM
Ops. My post was embedded in yours. My mistake.

This is what it was, "Your upcoming make-over will give you a more respectable look to Crackerville police."
lol:)

The Xl
06-19-2017, 01:24 PM
Police have far too much power, are expected to enforce shitty laws, are given extreme leniency by the courts, and are assumed the benefit of the doubt in interactions with citizens. None of these things are acceptable or an indication of a free society. There is a hierarchy in this country, and cops are above the average citizen on the totem pole.