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Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:00 AM
Part of me hopes they pass this turd. It will spell doom for the party .. perhaps for a generation.

Good old TeaTed named it the "Consumer Freedom Option". Republicans: Must include word Freedom .. MUST! :wink:


America's Health Insurance Plans, the nation's largest industry lobbying group joined with the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association on Friday night to send a blistering letter to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., urging him to drop a compromise proposal from Sen. Ted Cruz that the groups say is "unworkable."

The proposal, which was crucial to winning over Cruz's vote, would allow insurers to offer plans that don't comply with most of Obamacare's regulations as long as they offer at least one plan that complies with all of them.

"As the U.S. Senate considers the Better Care Reconciliation Act, we are writing to urge you to strike the 'Consumer Freedom Option' from the bill," the groups wrote, referring to the Cruz amendment. "It is simply unworkable in any form and would undermine protections for those with pre-existing medical conditions, increase premiums and lead to widespread terminations of coverage for people currently enrolled in the individual market."


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/insurers-send-letter-demanding-mcconnell-drop-cruz-proposal-from-healthcare-bill-call-it-unworkable/article/2628753

Casper
07-15-2017, 10:10 AM
Funny that after 7 years of whining about Obamacare, which has its own flaws, the Repubs have absolutely nothing to replace it with but this same old stale idea which was not popular 8 years ago and as we see is still not popular today, so much so that many Republican Reps will not support it. The downside to having all the Power in government is one can no longer blame the other guys for your own ineptitude. I agree that if the Repubs cannot come up with something that works and does not screw over Millions of Americans, Liberals and Conservatives alike, they will pay a heavy price over the next two elections, anything beyond that would be speculation. I still hold hope for a Common Sense Party to be formed by all the Libs and Cons that feel both Big Parties have become too extreme for their taste.

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 10:12 AM
Insurance lobbyists are upset? That's a good thing.

MisterVeritis
07-15-2017, 10:18 AM
Repeal Obamacare in its entirety. Replace it with a promise of individual liberty.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:18 AM
Funny that after 7 years of whining about Obamacare, which has its own flaws, the Repubs have absolutely nothing to replace it with but this same old stale idea which was not popular 8 years ago and as we see is still not popular today, so much so that many Republican Reps will not support it. The downside to having all the Power in government is one can no longer blame the other guys for your own ineptitude. I agree that if the Repubs cannot come up with something that works and does not screw over Millions of Americans, Liberals and Conservatives alike, they will pay a heavy price over the next two elections, anything beyond that would be speculation. I still hold hope for a Common Sense Party to be formed by all the Libs and Cons that feel both Big Parties have become too extreme for their taste.

They pass this POS and it will piss off everyone .. but two out of three who lose their health care will be Trump voters.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-obamacare-trump-supporters-20170312-story.html

Chris
07-15-2017, 10:19 AM
Terrible thing, isn't it, to give consumers a choice.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:19 AM
Repeal Obamacare in its entirety. Replace it with a promise of individual liberty.

Do it .. nothing would make me happier!

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:25 AM
Insurance lobbyists are upset? That's a good thing.

Nobody in the health care marketplace approves of the McTurtle Plan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors-health-groups-denounce-ahca-health-care-vote/

And reliably Republican voters in rural areas?

Just wait to feel their outrage when their only local hospital is shuttered.

MisterVeritis
07-15-2017, 10:26 AM
Repeal Obamacare in its entirety. Replace it with a promise of individual liberty.

Do it .. nothing would make me happier!
Cool. We have agreement. Imagine what will happen when people realize they have escaped yet another radical Progressive trap.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 10:27 AM
Not really.

It would kill O-care, because only the sick, lame, and broke will pick it as something they want.


Part of me hopes they pass this turd. It will spell doom for the party .. perhaps for a generation.

Good old TeaTed named it the "Consumer Freedom Option". Republicans: Must include word Freedom .. MUST! :wink:


America's Health Insurance Plans, the nation's largest industry lobbying group joined with the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association on Friday night to send a blistering letter to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., urging him to drop a compromise proposal from Sen. Ted Cruz that the groups say is "unworkable."

The proposal, which was crucial to winning over Cruz's vote, would allow insurers to offer plans that don't comply with most of Obamacare's regulations as long as they offer at least one plan that complies with all of them.

"As the U.S. Senate considers the Better Care Reconciliation Act, we are writing to urge you to strike the 'Consumer Freedom Option' from the bill," the groups wrote, referring to the Cruz amendment. "It is simply unworkable in any form and would undermine protections for those with pre-existing medical conditions, increase premiums and lead to widespread terminations of coverage for people currently enrolled in the individual market."


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/insurers-send-letter-demanding-mcconnell-drop-cruz-proposal-from-healthcare-bill-call-it-unworkable/article/2628753

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 10:28 AM
There were several plans out there. But the conservative wing and the big government wing of the GOP don't agree. Pay attention or fall behind. This was discussed above.


Funny that after 7 years of whining about Obamacare, which has its own flaws, the Repubs have absolutely nothing to replace it with but this same old stale idea which was not popular 8 years ago and as we see is still not popular today, so much so that many Republican Reps will not support it. The downside to having all the Power in government is one can no longer blame the other guys for your own ineptitude. I agree that if the Repubs cannot come up with something that works and does not screw over Millions of Americans, Liberals and Conservatives alike, they will pay a heavy price over the next two elections, anything beyond that would be speculation. I still hold hope for a Common Sense Party to be formed by all the Libs and Cons that feel both Big Parties have become too extreme for their taste.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 10:29 AM
Insurance lobbyists are upset? That's a good thing.

They want the tax payer bailouts that O-care promised.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 10:31 AM
What's wrong with you?


Nobody in the health care marketplace approves of the McTurtle Plan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors-health-groups-denounce-ahca-health-care-vote/

And reliably Republican voters in rural areas?

Just wait to feel their outrage when their only local hospital is shuttered.

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 10:32 AM
Nobody in the health care marketplace approves of the McTurtle Plan.

And you don't approve of President Trump. No one cares.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:32 AM
Terrible thing, isn't it, to give consumers a choice.

Idaho has about 6 insurers offering hundreds of different plans to pick from. No shortage of consumer choices.

I realize that other states are not so lucky but that's a reasonably simple set of fixes.

Are you in favor of ginormous cuts to Medicaid and giving half a trillion in tax cuts to the top 2%?

Guess what .. Medicaid recipients will have NO choices at that point.

And hundreds of rural hospitals will shut down because they won't be able to handle the deluge of welfare cases.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:35 AM
Cool. We have agreement. Imagine what will happen when people realize they have escaped yet another radical Progressive trap.

Sure .. they'll be thrilled! :rolleyes:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-obamacare-trump-supporters-20170312-story.html

Chris
07-15-2017, 10:37 AM
Idaho has about 6 insurers offering hundreds of different plans to pick from. No shortage of consumer choices.

I realize that other states are not so lucky but that's a reasonably simple set of fixes.

Are you in favor of ginormous cuts to Medicaid and giving half a trillion in tax cuts to the top 2%?

Guess what .. Medicaid recipients will have NO choices at that point.

And hundreds of rural hospitals will shut down because they won't be able to handle the deluge of welfare cases.


All I said or meant was consumers should have choices, including choices that don't conform to Obamacare.

The sky that's falling is the unsustainable rise in health care costs. You don't address that.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 10:55 AM
All I said or meant was consumers should have choices, including choices that don't conform to Obamacare.

The sky that's falling is the unsustainable rise in health care costs. You don't address that.

They have those choices now.

http://www.nfib.com/content/news/healthcare/non-obamacare-health-insurance-plans-myth-vs-fact-73679/

But pray tell, how is the GOP health care plan going to reduce costs?

Chris
07-15-2017, 11:03 AM
They have those choices now.

http://www.nfib.com/content/news/healthcare/non-obamacare-health-insurance-plans-myth-vs-fact-73679/

But pray tell, how is the GOP health care plan going to reduce costs?


Then why are you so dead set again such a provision?

Oh, wait, you hate Cruz. Yea, good reason there.



But pray tell, how is the GOP health care plan going to reduce costs?

It doesn't. Just posted this in the other healthcare thread:

No One Is Talking About The Things That Would Actually Make Health Insurance Cheaper (https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/no-one-is-talking-about-the-things-that-would-actually-make?utm_term=.snjJD6ybb#.ypKMY0poo)


In theory, Congress is currently grappling with how to bring down the rising costs of health care. In reality, as Republicans debate their health care plan, the main drivers of health costs are not being discussed at all. Instead, politicians are largely fighting over how existing costs should be paid.

Republicans say they need to repeal Obamacare because costs are skyrocketing. They argue that loosening burdensome regulations will increase competition and bring down costs.

Here’s a look at the path the country was on before Obamacare. As shown below, costs have been surging compared to other countries for many years.

https://s21.postimg.org/5xfl7sud3/anigif_sub-buzz-31869-1499445806-15.gif

...Both Republicans and Democrats agree that one specific method — premiums — is too expensive. But rather than focusing on the underlying issues that have raised those costs, they're debating where to shift them.

Democrats want to lean more on the tax base, through federal subsidies and social programs. Some want to go even further and institute full universal health care.

The latest GOP bill before the Senate would do the opposite, shifting the price of health care toward out-of-pocket costs....

Casper
07-15-2017, 11:03 AM
They have those choices now.

http://www.nfib.com/content/news/healthcare/non-obamacare-health-insurance-plans-myth-vs-fact-73679/

But pray tell, how is the GOP health care plan going to reduce costs?

Cost for Whom?
The insurance companies will be able to sell basically worthless policies and for those real policies only the low risk minority of consumers or the rich will be able to afford them. This means insurance companies will still be making excellent profits and paying out far less. Works great for the Insurance Industry.
As for the People, most will get screwed, at least for those that are older they can look forward to coverage again once they hit 65, that is if the morons do not hose up Medicare also, which is always a possibility.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 11:06 AM
The choices are b.s.

Why no catastrophic coverage? Why does a 50 year old male with no kids need to have pediatric care, female issue care, etc. added into his insurance plan?

Redistribution of wealth- that is why.


They have those choices now.

http://www.nfib.com/content/news/healthcare/non-obamacare-health-insurance-plans-myth-vs-fact-73679/

But pray tell, how is the GOP health care plan going to reduce costs?

Casper
07-15-2017, 11:06 AM
It doesn't. Just posted this in the other healthcare thread:

But isn't that what the American People were Demanding before Obamacare, AFFORDABLE/QUALITY Healthcare Coverage? So are we back to kicking the can down the road leaving it for someone else to deal with the problem?

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 11:08 AM
Cost for Whom?
The insurance companies will be able to sell basically worthless policies and for those real policies only the low risk minority of consumers or the rich will be able to afford them. This means insurance companies will still be making excellent profits and paying out far less. Works great for the Insurance Industry.
As for the People, most will get screwed, at least for those that are older they can look forward to coverage again once they hit 65, that is if the morons do not hose up Medicare also, which is always a possibility.

Who are you to declare certain policies worthless?

When I was in my 20s, an O-care plan would have been a waste of my money. I went to a doctor perhaps 10 times in the entire decade. If that.

Why do Statists think that everyone agrees that a Nanny State is best?

NapRover
07-15-2017, 11:09 AM
If we're going to have GovernmentCare, it should apply to every citizen without exception, especially legislators. They should have to ride the same bus as us.

If we're not going to have GovernmentCare, they should butt the hell out of it altogether, and give states the responsibility for it. Thiswould be my choice.

MisterVeritis
07-15-2017, 11:10 AM
Sure .. they'll be thrilled! :rolleyes:

It always takes time. Why are you so enraptured by involuntary servitude?

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 11:10 AM
But isn't that what the American People were Demanding before Obamacare, AFFORDABLE/QUALITY Healthcare Coverage? So are we back to kicking the can down the road leaving it for someone else to deal with the problem?

Right, because you can't have all three factors listed above.

No plan ever presented by democrats considered affordiabilty outside of subsidies- which does not control costs whatsoever.

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 11:11 AM
The choices are b.s.

Why no catastrophic coverage? Why does a 50 year old male with no kids need to have pediatric care, female issue care, etc. added into his insurance plan?

Redistribution of wealth- that is why.

Obamacare mandates = marxism. Period.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 11:14 AM
Who are you to declare certain policies worthless?

When I was in my 20s, an O-care plan would have been a waste of my money. I went to a doctor perhaps 10 times in the entire decade. If that.

Why do Statists think that everyone agrees that a Nanny State is best?

True, young people think they're basically immortal.

Then suddenly they get in a car wreck, break something during one of their grand adventures or get cancer and they're screwed.

But hey - i was the same way as a kid and just lucky. Don't think i had coverage through work until i was around 35

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 11:16 AM
The choices are b.s.

Why no catastrophic coverage? Why does a 50 year old male with no kids need to have pediatric care, female issue care, etc. added into his insurance plan?

Redistribution of wealth- that is why.

Love it or hate it Pete, but that is part of what government does .. redistribute wealth.

Doesn't matter whether you're a D or an R .. it's the way things work.

Chris
07-15-2017, 11:17 AM
But isn't that what the American People were Demanding before Obamacare, AFFORDABLE/QUALITY Healthcare Coverage? So are we back to kicking the can down the road leaving it for someone else to deal with the problem?

That's what happens when you look to government for solutions.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 11:19 AM
Obamacare mandates = marxism. Period.

The Heritage Foundation is a Marxist organization?

Interesting :rolleyes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#52cd65536187

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 11:20 AM
The Heritage Foundation is a Marxist organization?

Interesting :rolleyes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#52cd65536187
Mandates are marxist idea, regardless of the source. I'm not afraid to call things what they are. Are you?

Tahuyaman
07-15-2017, 11:22 AM
People like @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297) were outraged that the insurance companies supposedly helped write the ACA and ensured it was more profitable for them. Now he's complaining that the insurance inindustry opposes the replacement plan as they consider it bad for them.

Hmm. I sense a little inconsistency on his part. It wouldn't be a sign of partisanship, woukd it?

plus, how would a repeal destroy the Republican Party gpfor generations if they took over the majority largely on the promise to repeal the ACA? A common sense view should tell you that they will lose much of their support if they fail to live up to that promise.

Rand Paul gets it.

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 11:22 AM
People like @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297) were outraged that the insurance companies supposedly helped write the ACA and ensured it was more profitable for them. Now he's complaining that the insurance inindustry opposes the replacement plan as they consider it bad for them.

Hmm. I sense a little inconsistency on his part. It wouldn't be a sign of partisanship, woukd it?

Cognitive dissonance.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 11:23 AM
True, young people think they're basically immortal.

Then suddenly they get in a car wreck, break something during one of their grand adventures or get cancer and they're screwed.

But hey - i was the same way as a kid and just lucky. Don't think i had coverage through work until i was around 35


Incorrect. A young healthy person, prior to O-care, could have purchased a catastrophic plan that had very low premiums. Pay for their healthcare up to say $10K, then everything else is covered.

I was in the military so I didn't worry about health insurance, but had I been a civilian that is the sort of plan I would have had.

O-care premiums, if you are not a taker (get the subsidy), kill younger people. Too expensive and you don't need much of the product.

Tahuyaman
07-15-2017, 11:27 AM
The Heritage Foundation is a Marxist organization?

Interesting :rolleyes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#52cd65536187


When the Democrats passed the ACA, it was all Obama's idea and one of the greatest accomplishments by any president ever.

When it became obvious that it is an abject failure, it became the creation of Mitt Romney and or the Heritage Foundation.

Tahuyaman
07-15-2017, 11:29 AM
Cognitive dissonance.


Just plain old hypocrisy.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 11:31 AM
When the Democrats passed the ACA, it was all Obama's idea and one of the greatest accomplishments by any president ever.

When it became obvious that it is an abject failure, it became the creation of Mitt Romney and or the Heritage Foundation.


The Heritage plan was fundamentally different, as discussed elsewhere.

The Romney plan was at the state level- where all of these decisions should be made.

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 11:33 AM
The Heritage plan was fundamentally different, as discussed elsewhere.
Don't rain on the left's blame parade.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 11:35 AM
Derp

This has become a pattern for you.

My statements in this thread were about opposition from HEALTH CARE Organizations - not insurance.

Dr. Who
07-15-2017, 11:40 AM
Then why are you so dead set again such a provision?

Oh, wait, you hate Cruz. Yea, good reason there.




It doesn't. Just posted this in the other healthcare thread:

No One Is Talking About The Things That Would Actually Make Health Insurance Cheaper (https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/no-one-is-talking-about-the-things-that-would-actually-make?utm_term=.snjJD6ybb#.ypKMY0poo)

Here are the underlying issues:

1. Administrative CostsThe number one reason our healthcare costs are so high, says Harvard economist David Cutler, is that “the administrative costs (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/administrative-expenses.asp) of running our healthcare system are astronomical. About one quarter of healthcare cost is associated with administration, which is far higher than in any other country.”
One example Cutler brought up in a discussion on this topic with National Public Radio was the 1,300 billing clerks at Duke University Hospital, which has only 900 beds. Those billing specialists are needed to determine how to bill to meet the varying requirements of multiple insurers. Canada and other countries that have a single-payer system don’t require this level of staffing to administer healthcare.


2. Drug CostsAnother major difference in health costs between the U.S. and every other developed nation is the cost of drugs. The public definitely believes drug costs are unreasonable; now politicians are starting to believe that too. In most countries the government negotiates drug prices with the drug makers, but when Congress created Medicare Part D (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/medicarepartd.asp), it specifically denied Medicare (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/medicare.asp) the right to use its power to negotiate drug prices. The Veteran's Administration (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/veterans-administration.asp) and Medicaid (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/medicaid.asp), which can negotiate drug prices, pay the lowest drug prices. The Congressional Budget Office has found that just by giving the low-income beneficiaries (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/beneficiary.asp) of Medicare Part D the same discount Medicaid recipients get, the federal government would save $116 billion over 10 years. Think of what the savings might be if all Medicare recipients could benefit from Medicaid-negotiated drug prices!


3. Defensive MedicineYet another big driver of the higher U.S. health insurance (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/healthinsurance.asp) bill is the practice of defensive medicine. Doctors are afraid that they will get sued, so they order multiple tests even when they are certain they know what the diagnosis is. A Gallup survey estimated that $650 billion annually could be attributed to defensive medicine. Everyone pays the bill on this with higher insurance premiums, co-pays (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/copay.asp) and out-of-pocket costs (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/outofpocket-limit.asp), as well as taxes that go toward paying for governmental healthcare programs.


4. Expensive Mix of TreatmentsU.S. medical practitioners also tend to use a more expensive mix of treatments. When compared with other developed countries, for example, the U.S. uses three times as many mammograms, two-and-a-half times the number of MRIs and 31% more Caesarean sections. This results in more being spent on technology in more locations. Another key part of the mix is that more people in the U.S. are treated by specialists, whose fees are higher than primary-care doctors, when the same types of treatments are done at the primary-care level in other countries. Specialists command higher pay, which drives the costs up in the U.S. for everyone.


Read more: 6 Reasons Healthcare Is So Expensive in the U.S. | Investopedia (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp#ixzz4mv3k2ouS) http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp#ixzz4mv3k2ouS
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=arwjQmCEqr4l6Cadbi-bnq&u=Investopedia)

Tahuyaman
07-15-2017, 11:41 AM
Derp

This has become a pattern for you.

My statements in this thread were about opposition from HEALTH CARE Organizations - not insurance.

Insurers send letter demanding removal of Cruz proposal from health care bill
Your title, not mine

MisterVeritis
07-15-2017, 11:42 AM
Here are the underlying issues:

You missed the only factor that counts. Individuals do not pay for their health care. Someone else does. Fix that and the whole problem will be solved.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 12:01 PM
Derp

This has become a pattern for you.

My statements in this thread were about opposition from HEALTH CARE Organizations - not insurance.
They are only worried about disruption.

O-care won't save them - it is dying.

Tahuyaman
07-15-2017, 12:05 PM
Several times every day the partisan leftists give everyone a clear demonstration of hackery and hypocrisy.

Casper
07-15-2017, 12:24 PM
Who are you to declare certain policies worthless?

When I was in my 20s, an O-care plan would have been a waste of my money. I went to a doctor perhaps 10 times in the entire decade. If that.

Why do Statists think that everyone agrees that a Nanny State is best?
When I was in my 20's I was married, with children, as are many young people, that is when people tend to do those things. Oh and I was in the US Army where we had universal coverage, and we never had an issue with them.

Casper
07-15-2017, 12:25 PM
They are only worried about disruption.

O-care won't save them - it is dying.
True, but what is replacing it, they sure look similar to the past mistakes.

Casper
07-15-2017, 12:28 PM
Right, because you can't have all three factors listed above.

No plan ever presented by democrats considered affordiabilty outside of subsidies- which does not control costs whatsoever.
Which costs? Those of Insurance or those of Medical Care? The first "should" go down dramtically if we learn to control the later.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 12:32 PM
When I was in my 20's I was married, with children, as are many young people, that is when people tend to do those things. Oh and I was in the US Army where we had universal coverage, and we never had an issue with them.The coverage the army gave back then covered two of the three factors mentioned above- universialty and cost control.

Amerians wouldn't stand for the lack of quality.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 12:33 PM
Which costs? Those of Insurance or those of Medical Care? The first "should" go down dramtically if we learn to control the later.

Health care costs

Insurance only buys access

Casper
07-15-2017, 12:33 PM
That's what happens when you look to government for solutions.
Often, but not always. Oh and we already tried letting the free enterprise insurance industry deal with it and we know that did not work either, before Obamacare 80% of Americans wanted healthcare reform. No, the government is not always the answer to issues, but that does not mean it is never the possible solution. Once again I will point out that we are one of the very few that have the sort of system for healthcare that we have, we may be the only one, other countries managed to come up with something workable, why can't we, do you think we Americans are too stupid to get it done and do it better?

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 12:35 PM
When did the free market operate with health insurance?


Often, but not always. Oh and we already tried letting the free enterprise insurance industry deal with it and we know that did not work either, before Obamacare 80% of Americans wanted healthcare reform. No, the government is not always the answer to issues, but that does not mean it is never the possible solution. Once again I will point out that we are one of the very few that have the sort of system for healthcare that we have, we may be the only one, other countries managed to come up with something workable, why can't we, do you think we Americans are too stupid to get it done and do it better?

Casper
07-15-2017, 12:41 PM
The coverage the army gave back then covered two of the three factors mentioned above- universialty and cost control.

Amerians wouldn't stand for the lack of quality.

I never encountered one issue with quality in 8 years in service or as the child of a career soldier, we always got good quality service. Yes, some complained about this or that doctor or medic, but that goes for our current private medical services, overall I believe they do an excellent job. Oh, and I love how they have you see a medic or nurse before seeing a doctor, the vast majority of cases do not need to see a doctor to get the help they need, reduces costs and time for the doctors and patients, some European plans do the same thing, and it works.

Casper
07-15-2017, 12:43 PM
When did the free market operate with health insurance?

What do you think we had before Obamacare? Oh I know some may say it is not so because not all insurance companies can operate in some states, but they forget that often that was due to the insurance company making that shot or the insurance company was so bad in their practices that the State banned them. Other than that they were doing pretty much what they wanted as any company did and they well very well rewarded.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 12:58 PM
Yes, quality was adequate. Americans want gold-plated care.


I never encountered one issue with quality in 8 years in service or as the child of a career soldier, we always got good quality service. Yes, some complained about this or that doctor or medic, but that goes for our current private medical services, overall I believe they do an excellent job. Oh, and I love how they have you see a medic or nurse before seeing a doctor, the vast majority of cases do not need to see a doctor to get the help they need, reduces costs and time for the doctors and patients, some European plans do the same thing, and it works.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 12:59 PM
What do you think we had before Obamacare? Oh I know some may say it is not so because not all insurance companies can operate in some states, but they forget that often that was due to the insurance company making that shot or the insurance company was so bad in their practices that the State banned them. Other than that they were doing pretty much what they wanted as any company did and they well very well rewarded.


It was so heavily regulated as to not have many features of a free market. That is one reason costs were out of control.

Casper
07-15-2017, 01:08 PM
Yes, quality was adequate. Americans want gold-plated care.

And in the end they got neither and the new plan is no better, heck it may be worse considering how the Nation has changed in the last 10 years.

Casper
07-15-2017, 01:09 PM
It was so heavily regulated as to not have many features of a free market. That is one reason costs were out of control.
You mentioned reforms on another similar thread.
What reforms exactly, specifics.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 01:12 PM
And in the end they got neither and the new plan is no better, heck it may be worse considering how the Nation has changed in the last 10 years.

Like I said, you can have only 2 of the 3 factors that I laid out.

Casper
07-15-2017, 04:40 PM
Not really.

It would kill O-care, because only the sick, lame, and broke will pick it as something they want.
That may well be their only option if the Repubs have their way, the rest most will have to do without, either quality health insurance or paying their mortgage, one or the other.
Please don't tell me you actually Like what the Repubs are proposing??????????????

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 04:43 PM
That may well be their only option if the Repubs have their way, the rest most will have to do without, either quality health insurance or paying their mortgage, one or the other.
Please don't tell me you actually Like what the Repubs are proposing??????????????


The proposal is a political solution that can pass.

My solution would never pass.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 04:47 PM
And you don't approve of President Trump. No one cares.

And you DO approve of Trump .. No one cares about that either

Enjoy his 39% approval rating (an historic LOW at this point of a presidency for past 50 years ;-)

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 04:48 PM
The PRIMARY display of partisan hackery and hypocrisy ever day?

YOU

resister
07-15-2017, 05:01 PM
The PRIMARY display of partisan hackery and hypocrisy ever day?

YOU18736lol

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 05:13 PM
And you DO approve of Trump .. No one cares about that either

Enjoy his 39% approval rating (an historic LOW at this point of a presidency for past 50 years ;-)

Approval ratings mean nothing. Election results, son, election results.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 05:21 PM
Approval ratings mean nothing. Election results, son, election results.

Oh hell, sorry you are correct.

The YUUUGE electoral win by 70k votes in two states and Big League help from Russia even though 3 million folks voted against him.

Kalkin is AWESOME!! :rolleyes:

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 05:38 PM
Oh hell, sorry you are correct.

The YUUUGE electoral win by 70k votes in two states and Big League help from Russia even though 3 million folks voted against him.

Kalkin is AWESOME!! :rolleyes:

Subtract out the illegal votes. (See the thread about that).

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 05:43 PM
Subtract out the illegal votes. (See the thread about that).

^^^ FAKE RW NEWS ^^^

But hey man, hold on to the myth .. it's kind of like religion!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-are-nine-major-investigations-on-voter-fraud-that-found-virtually-nothing/?utm_term=.255616074664

:D

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 05:44 PM
18736lol

Suggest not aligning with the clown i was replying to ...

You're smarter and you're welcome!

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 06:06 PM
^^^ FAKE RW NEWS ^^^

But hey man, hold on to the myth .. it's kind of like religion!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-are-nine-major-investigations-on-voter-fraud-that-found-virtually-nothing/?utm_term=.255616074664

:D
false see the previous thread on the topic

Kalkin
07-15-2017, 06:33 PM
Oh hell, sorry you are correct.
You'll get used to it (if you haven't already).

The YUUUGE electoral win by 70k votes in two states and Big League help from Russia even though 3 million folks voted against him.
Do you need a lesson in the electoral college?

Kalkin is AWESOME!! :rolleyes:
You heard that, too? Damn. Must be true.

Bo-4
07-15-2017, 07:50 PM
false see the previous thread on the topic

No need .. i have seen at least 20 reputable studies on the subject Pete which were 100% legit ...

There is NO SUCH THING AS WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD.

But go ahead and hang with your conspiracy theories by the likes of the completely defamed idiots such as Kris Kobach and a few others.

We understand that it is comforting .. ;)

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 08:09 PM
No need .. i have seen at least 20 reputable studies on the subject Pete which were 100% legit ...

There is NO SUCH THING AS WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD.

But go ahead and hang with your conspiracy theories by the likes of the completely defamed idiots such as Kris Kobach and a few others.

We understand that it is comforting .. ;)
Incorrect.

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 08:11 PM
The latest study shows a shit load of non-citizens voting in many elections, do keep up.

jet57
07-15-2017, 08:12 PM
Part of me hopes they pass this turd. It will spell doom for the party .. perhaps for a generation.

Good old TeaTed named it the "Consumer Freedom Option". Republicans: Must include word Freedom .. MUST! :wink:


America's Health Insurance Plans, the nation's largest industry lobbying group joined with the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association on Friday night to send a blistering letter to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., urging him to drop a compromise proposal from Sen. Ted Cruz that the groups say is "unworkable."

The proposal, which was crucial to winning over Cruz's vote, would allow insurers to offer plans that don't comply with most of Obamacare's regulations as long as they offer at least one plan that complies with all of them.

"As the U.S. Senate considers the Better Care Reconciliation Act, we are writing to urge you to strike the 'Consumer Freedom Option' from the bill," the groups wrote, referring to the Cruz amendment. "It is simply unworkable in any form and would undermine protections for those with pre-existing medical conditions, increase premiums and lead to widespread terminations of coverage for people currently enrolled in the individual market."


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/insurers-send-letter-demanding-mcconnell-drop-cruz-proposal-from-healthcare-bill-call-it-unworkable/article/2628753
Either way, the BEST part of this entire "Republican leadership" affair is watching them tear themselves apart and make a mockery out of our government. This is certainly the beginning of the end for modern conservative government.

Long live Dwight Eisenhower!

Peter1469
07-15-2017, 08:18 PM
lol

The republican leadership isn't conservative. Outside of the Speaker. Mitch might as well be honest and say he is a dem.


Either way, the BEST part of this entire "Republican leadership" affair is watching them tear themselves apart and make a mockery out of our government. This is certainly the beginning of the end for modern conservative government.

Long live Dwight Eisenhower!

resister
07-15-2017, 08:28 PM
Kalkin is AWESOME!! :rolleyes:He is Kalkin the Magnifigant, he is resplendent and awesome, you should feel honored he briefly gazed in your direction on his way to his Glorious destiny!

jet57
07-15-2017, 08:39 PM
lol

The republican leadership isn't conservative. Outside of the Speaker. Mitch might as well be honest and say he is a dem.

Th Republican party was hijacked by the far right evangelical element in this country in 1980. The party hasn't been the same since, and that is why it's such a mess now. It's going to be nice watching their ship sink.

resister
07-15-2017, 08:48 PM
Th Republican party was hijacked by the far right evangelical element in this country in 1980. The party hasn't been the same since, and that is why it's such a mess now. It's going to be nice watching their ship sink.
That is really funny seeing how the Democrats have been hijacked by the globalist movement and the likes of waters and Pelosi and other socialist. Our ship is sinking so quick we basically hold the entire power structure of the Gov. Super LOL

Peter1469
07-16-2017, 03:22 AM
Th Republican party was hijacked by the far right evangelical element in this country in 1980. The party hasn't been the same since, and that is why it's such a mess now. It's going to be nice watching their ship sink.
Incorrect. I explained that already. The GOP added pro-life, pro-Israel concepts to its platform to attract the religious right- which was notorious for not voting. But they laugh at them behind closed doors. The religious right votes. Their power stops there at the federal level.

jet57
07-16-2017, 10:25 AM
Incorrect. I explained that already. The GOP added pro-life, pro-Israel concepts to its platform to attract the religious right- which was notorious for not voting. But they laugh at them behind closed doors. The religious right votes. Their power stops there at the federal level.

Sorry but you are not correct: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1981/05/18/a-disciplined-charging-army


On October 3, 1980, just a month before his victory in the Presidential election, Ronald Reagan stopped in Lynchburg, Virginia, to address a convention of the National Religious Broadcasters, whose host was the Reverend Jerry Falwell, pastor of the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg and the president of the Moral Majority. On arriving at the airport, Reagan said, in answer to a question, that he was “quite sure” God heard the prayers of Jews. At the convention, he told an audience of pastors, students, and Lynchburg citizens that he believed in the separation of church and state. He also said that he supported voluntary, nonsectarian prayer in the public schools. “I don’t think we should have ever expelled God from the classroom,” he told the cheering audience. Reagan’s statements received national news coverage, for there was then some uncertainty about his theological views.

As I said; Ronald Reagan opened the door for the religious far right, and like household black mold, they never leave unless you replace the sheetrock.

They may have never voted before Reagan but we AND the Republican party would be a lot better off today if they'd continued to not vote.

Mini Me
07-16-2017, 10:36 AM
Repeal Obamacare in its entirety. Replace it with a promise of individual liberty.


Whatever that means! Very vague!

Tahuyaman
07-16-2017, 10:45 AM
When I was in my 20's I was married, with children, as are many young people, that is when people tend to do those things. Oh and I was in the US Army where we had universal coverage, and we never had an issue with them.


The coverage the army gave back then covered two of the three factors mentioned above- universialty and cost control.

Amerians wouldn't stand for the lack of quality.


I was was in the Army for over twenty years. Our health care was sometimes very good and other times not so good. It was great for my wife during pregnancies.


For me, as it was for most infantrymen, it was mostly getting me patched up quickly and just enough to get me back in the field, then worry about the long term issues later. That made some of the long term issues worse than they needed to be. The population at large would not stand for that.

Peter1469
07-16-2017, 11:28 AM
You didn't address my point. Why?


Sorry but you are not correct: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1981/05/18/a-disciplined-charging-army



As I said; Ronald Reagan opened the door for the religious far right, and like household black mold, they never leave unless you replace the sheetrock.

They may have never voted before Reagan but we AND the Republican party would be a lot better off today if they'd continued to not vote.

Doesn't matter to me. I don't vote GOP.

Chris
07-16-2017, 11:52 AM
Cruz amendment is pro-choice: Why the Cruz amendment is smart policy (http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/15/opinions/cruz-amendment-smart-policy-moore/index.html)


...The Cruz amendment -- which has been inserted into the GOP Senate health plan -- is smart, because it doesn't take anything away from anyone. If you want Obamacare -- you can have it. You can have the coverage for the 10 "essential benefits,‎" you can have the subsidies and the exchanges that were supposed to save $2,500 per family. It's still there for you.

The Cruz‎ amendment creates what is called a "Consumer Freedom Option." This essentially allows an "off-ramp" from Obamacare for the tens of millions of Americans who don't want it. The "Consumer Freedom Option" allows insurers who offer Obamacare-compliant plans to offer a range of much less costly plans. In other words, it empowers people and families to pick and choose what they want in their own insurance package. Some families want and can afford blanket coverage that insures them for everything from cancer to contraceptives to drug addiction to dental care to the sniffles. If you want to pay for that coverage, go for it. ‎

What about families or individuals with lower incomes or healthy life styles that want the other extreme? They want slimmed-down coverage that protects them from major medical expenses -- a bad injury like breaking a leg, or a serious disease with costly ongoing treatments. ‎These families may voluntarily choose to pay for more routine medical expenses, like a checkup or a visit to the dentist's office, out of pocket. One benefit is that since more people will pay directly for medical services, they are likely to shop around for the best price, and this competition will lower prices for everyone.

In other words, the Cruz amendment is pro-choice -- which I thought was one of the anthems of liberalism....

Tahuyaman
07-16-2017, 12:02 PM
Terrible thing, isn't it, to give consumers a choice.

It is to the big government types. People having more power over their own choices is something the worshippers of government can't tolerate

jet57
07-16-2017, 12:16 PM
You didn't address my point. Why?



Doesn't matter to me. I don't vote GOP.
Okay.