Social Security numbers are out

[Peter1469]

Social Security numbers are out (https://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2017/07/13/news-from-the-social-security-ponzi-scheme/#48ee308535a1)

Social Security is worse than a Ponzi scheme. At least with a Ponzi scheme new investors pay for the older ones.


The government is out today with its annual update of Social Security’s sick finances:--The system is $12.5 trillion under water, up from $11.4 trillion a year ago.


--Absent law changes, checks to retirees will have to be chopped 23% beginning in 2035.


--To fix just the retirement pay program, Congress could kick up the payroll tax by 2.8 percentage points. Fixing Medicare’s disastrous finances would be in addition.

--The retirement operation is running an $86 billion annual deficit. That’s the difference between the money coming in from Social Security’s share of payroll taxes (12.4% of covered payroll) and the money going out in monthly checks and in overhead.





Ponzi? That’s too kind an interpretation. A Ponzi scheme has old investors being paid off with money raised from new ones. In this case there isn’t enough cash coming in from new players to pay off the old ones. The $86 billion shortfall is being covered in traditional federal fashion, by drawing on general tax revenues and by printing money.


The trustees of the Social Security system put the grim news in as positive light as they can. They cheerily note that “asset reserves” grew from $2,813 billion at the end of 2015 to $2,848 billion at the end of 2016.

[Agent Zero]

I won't need it. Go ahead and dump it right now. For everyone.

[Peter1469]

I won't need it. Go ahead and dump it right now. For everyone.

It will serve as a good vacation fund for me.

We need to reform it. But nobody, except you have said to end it for all now.

Responsible people say to reform it and have the new plan affect people at a certain age, well below the retirement age, so they have time to plan.

[Chris]

Right, but the trillions in the trust fund could be invested to earn--oh, wait, the government borrowed all that already.

[Casper]

I won't need it. Go ahead and dump it right now. For everyone.

Not until they give me my money back, with interest and I charge like the IRS, then I am fine with letting it die. Do otherwise and lamp poles in Washington will get a new kinda decoration. Me thinks Congress knows this to be a common sentiment.

[Mister D]

We're all going to take a loss at some point. We better get used to the idea.

[Chris]

Not until they give me my money back, with interest and I charge like the IRS, then I am fine with letting it die. Do otherwise and lamp poles in Washington will get a new kinda decoration. Me thinks Congress knows this to be a common sentiment.

It's gone, there's no money there, the government spent it.

[Peter1469]

Not until they give me my money back, with interest and I charge like the IRS, then I am fine with letting it die. Do otherwise and lamp poles in Washington will get a new kinda decoration. Me thinks Congress knows this to be a common sentiment.
You don't get interest. The scheme was set up as a payment. Not a property right.

Part of any reform should create a property right in the program.

[MisterVeritis]

I won't need it. Go ahead and dump it right now. For everyone.
I agree to end it. The feds can sell all of the excess lands they keep unconstitutionally. They can make us whole with the proceeds.

[Archer0915]

It will serve as a good vacation fund for me.

We need to reform it. But nobody, except you have said to end it for all now.

Responsible people say to reform it and have the new plan affect people at a certain age, well below the retirement age, so they have time to plan.

Actually I have said phase it out and change it to need based. Already get a great pension? Well, many do not.

[Peter1469]

Actually I have said phase it out and change it to need based. Already get a great pension? Well, many do not.

The scheme currently pays to all. And all paid in. Any reform that I would be for would privatize at least some of the investment so we had an ownership right in it.

I am not sure about a new scheme that everyone pays into but only the poor benefit from- unless the taxes to cover it are low.

[Common]

Obama milking it to feed obamacare really helped alot

[Common]

The scheme currently pays to all. And all paid in. Any reform that I would be for would privatize at least some of the investment so we had an ownership right in it.

I am not sure about a new scheme that everyone pays into but only the poor benefit from- unless the taxes to cover it are low.

I know seniors whose only income is the 7-1100 they get from Social Security, on top of that they have to pay yearly copay for medicare and 20% over for some procedures.

[Peter1469]

I know seniors whose only income is the 7-1100 they get from Social Security, on top of that they have to pay yearly copay for medicare and 20% over for some procedures.

I am glad that I prepared so that won't be me or my family.

[Newpublius]

Right, but the trillions in the trust fund could be invested to earn--oh, wait, the government borrowed all that already.

That's really the problem. What people aren't realizing is that we are putting about 12.5% of our incomes (employee+employer share) and then wonder why the payout is lousy.

[Agent Zero]

Obama milking it to feed obamacare really helped alot

Please explain.

[Peter1469]

That's really the problem. What people aren't realizing is that we are putting about 12.5% of our incomes (employee+employer share) and then wonder why the payout is lousy.

And many are calling for more.

[midcan5]

Call it whatever you ideologues like, it has helped more people than all the words in the universe and all the nonsense from its detractors.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1227/p01s03-cogn.html


"Instead of being a proud day for America, April 20, 1983, has become a day of shame. The Social Security Amendments of 1983 laid the foundation for 30-years of federal embezzlement of Social Security money in order to use the money to pay for wars, tax cuts and other government programs. The payroll tax hike of 1983 generated a total of $2.7 trillion in surplus Social Security revenue. This surplus revenue was supposed to be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury bonds that would be held in the trust fund until the baby boomers began to retire in about 2010. But not one dime of that money went to Social Security."See more at: http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/

[Newpublius]

"This surplus revenue was supposed to be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury bonds that would be held in the trust fund until the baby boomers began to retire in about 2010. But not one dime of that money went to Social Security."

The surplus for Social Security was spent buying US bonds, by law. By definition that funded the general deficit and anything that funded, including wars of course. That's true, but the bonds are still there, if Social Security needa money they can sell the bonds on the open market for cash.

Social Security does benefit many of course. That's not really the issue, the issue you are alluding to but missing is that, as a society, we made this tremendous investment.....in US bonds -- government -- and now we are on the other side of that and it doesn't look so good, does it?

[Trish]

Obama milking it to feed obamacare really helped alot
Let's be honest and say both Parties have raped SS. When you assert that only one man was capable of manipulating SS then your argument loses it's weight.

I am not opposed to modifying or phasing out SS but it will require that we change the mindset of most Americans. It will take a long period of time to wean people off the program and re-educate them to plan outside of SS for retirement. There are so many variables involved.....people are living longer, jobs and skill sets are changing and we are moving more towards automation so whose to say if any jobs will be available.

[Peter1469]

Sure several hundred bucks help if you have nothing else.

What about the shortfall in the program?


Call it whatever you ideologues like, it has helped more people than all the words in the universe and all the nonsense from its detractors.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1227/p01s03-cogn.html


"Instead of being a proud day for America, April 20, 1983, has become a day of shame. The Social Security Amendments of 1983 laid the foundation for 30-years of federal embezzlement of Social Security money in order to use the money to pay for wars, tax cuts and other government programs. The payroll tax hike of 1983 generated a total of $2.7 trillion in surplus Social Security revenue. This surplus revenue was supposed to be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury bonds that would be held in the trust fund until the baby boomers began to retire in about 2010. But not one dime of that money went to Social Security."See more at: http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/

[Peter1469]

I know. Just print more money.

[Casper]

You don't get interest. The scheme was set up as a payment. Not a property right.

Part of any reform should create a property right in the program.
Oh I know that Peter. I will be lucky to get much back if the trends continue, no matter the claims otherwise, believe me I have no delusions that the government will ever do the right thing. And the Sheep will do Nothing, it is what Sheep do.
Been great discussing topics with ya here, you are one for the few that actually know how to Discuss the issues facing this Nation, even when we disagree. Well Done, Sir, you have my respect.

I am moving on, so Best wishes to You and Yours, may your path always be an easy one.
Casper

[Trish]

Oh I know that Peter. I will be lucky to get much back if the trends continue, no matter the claims otherwise, believe me I have no delusions that the government will ever do the right thing. And the Sheep will do Nothing, it is what Sheep do.
Been great discussing topics with ya here, you are one for the few that actually know how to Discuss the issues facing this Nation, even when we disagree. Well Done, Sir, you have my respect.

I am moving on, so Best wishes to You and Yours, may your path always be an easy one.
Casper
NO! You can't go. A couple months ago you told me to hold my own and now you're leaving?!!

[Peter1469]

Safe travels, friend.


Oh I know that Peter. I will be lucky to get much back if the trends continue, no matter the claims otherwise, believe me I have no delusions that the government will ever do the right thing. And the Sheep will do Nothing, it is what Sheep do.
Been great discussing topics with ya here, you are one for the few that actually know how to Discuss the issues facing this Nation, even when we disagree. Well Done, Sir, you have my respect.

I am moving on, so Best wishes to You and Yours, may your path always be an easy one.
Casper

[Archer0915]

The scheme currently pays to all. And all paid in. Any reform that I would be for would privatize at least some of the investment so we had an ownership right in it.

I am not sure about a new scheme that everyone pays into but only the poor benefit from- unless the taxes to cover it are low.

Well if that is the case kill all welfare to those who never paid in. SS was never meant to be what it has become.

[texan]

Social Security numbers are out (https://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2017/07/13/news-from-the-social-security-ponzi-scheme/#48ee308535a1)

Social Security is worse than a Ponzi scheme. At least with a Ponzi scheme new investors pay for the older ones.

The obvious solution is a democrat staple. Let's give more shit away. Even better, if anyone tries to reform it call them cold bloooded child killers.

[Dr. Who]

Oh I know that Peter. I will be lucky to get much back if the trends continue, no matter the claims otherwise, believe me I have no delusions that the government will ever do the right thing. And the Sheep will do Nothing, it is what Sheep do.
Been great discussing topics with ya here, you are one for the few that actually know how to Discuss the issues facing this Nation, even when we disagree. Well Done, Sir, you have my respect.

I am moving on, so Best wishes to You and Yours, may your path always be an easy one.
Casper

I wish you would stay.