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View Full Version : what happens IF we go over the cliff?



truthmatters
11-11-2012, 10:21 AM
what is your prediction of what would happen to the country if we went over this said cliff.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2012, 10:22 AM
A scramble then consensus.

I don't think it's happening though.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 10:23 AM
what economically will happen if nothing is done

Calypso Jones
11-11-2012, 10:33 AM
you are not worried are ya? You're sittin' in the catbird seat.

Chris
11-11-2012, 10:56 AM
The government could collapse, it wouldn't be able to support entitlements, defense, public sector jobs, it could default on the debt. The dollar could inflate and then collapse, we'll all be poorer. All that could happen to one degree or another. And I don't see our government capable of doing anything to stop it.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 11:48 AM
and why would things collapse ?

what would cause it?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 11:49 AM
Its full of cuts remember?

More revenue and more cuts.


how would that make the government collapse?

Chris
11-11-2012, 11:50 AM
and why would things collapse ?

what would cause it?

See post #5.

Chris
11-11-2012, 11:51 AM
Its full of cuts remember?

More revenue and more cuts.


how would that make the government collapse?

But your question concerns going over the cliff, iow, not taxing and cutting.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 11:53 AM
do you KNOW whats in the package?

Chris
11-11-2012, 11:56 AM
It would help if you would either quote someone or mention their name when posting to someone. Why, because your posts are some vague it's hard to tell who or what you're referring to, and sometimes off topic, like your post #7.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 11:58 AM
You dont understand the package do you?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:02 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_cliff#Current_laws_leading_to_the_fiscal_cl iff



Current laws leading to the fiscal cliffThe following provisions of current law are most involved in the fiscal cliff:[10] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-CBOOutlook1208-11)[11] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-nytrecession-12)

Expiration of the Obama tax cuts provided for in the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Tax_Relief,_Unemployment_Insurance_Reauthorization ,_and_Job_Creation_Act_of_2010);


Across-the-board spending cuts ("sequestration (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Sequestration)") to most discretionary programs as directed by the Budget Control Act of 2011 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011);


Reversion of the Alternative Minimum Tax thresholds to their 2000 tax year levels;


Expiration of measures delaying the Medicare Sustainable Growth Rate (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Medicare_Sustainable_Growth_Rate) from going into effect (the "doc fix (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Doc_fix)"), most recently extended by the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Middle_Class_Tax_Relief_and_Job_Creation_Act_of_20 12) (MCTRJCA);


Expiration of the 2% Social Security payroll tax cut, most recently extended by MCTRJCA;


Expiration of federal unemployment benefits, most recently extended by MCTRJCA and


New taxes imposed by the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act) and the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Health_Care_and_Education_Reconciliation_Act_of_20 10).
Without new legislation, these provisions will automatically go into effect on January 1 or 2, 2013, except for the Alternative Minimum Tax growth, which may be changed retroactively. Some provisions will increase taxes (the expiration of the Bush and FICA payroll tax cuts and the new Affordable Care tax and AMT thresholds) while others will reduce spending (sequestration, expiration of unemployment benefits and implementation of the Medicare SGR (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Medicare_Sustainable_Growth_Rate)).[10] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-CBOOutlook1208-11)

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:10 PM
That has to do with supposed measures to stop us going over the cliff, but your topic question was not that but, and I quote, "what happens IF we go over the cliff?" Why'd you ask that if you want to discuss something else?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:28 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.html?iid=EL


If all the policies are allowed to go into effect, the CBO projects that the economy, as measured by GDP, will shrink by 0.5% between the fourth quarter of this year and the fourth quarter of next year. Unemployment, currently 8.3% (http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/03/news/economy/jobs-report-unemployment/index.htm?iid=EL), will rise to 9% in the second half of 2013. The CBO's forecast for 2013 has worsened since May, when it first forecast (http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.htm?iid=EL) the fiscal cliff would cause a recession.

The fiscal cliff would, however, improve the deficit picture greatly. The CBO forecasts the deficit will hit $1.1 trillion this year -- or 7.3% of GDP. But for 2013, it would fall to $641 billion, or 4% of GDP under the fiscal cliff. That would represent the biggest single year drop in the annual deficit as a percent of the economy since 1969.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:30 PM
If it reduces the deficit why would it cause a reccession?

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:33 PM
"what happens IF we go over the cliff?" was the question I answered. See post #5.

But if your question is "what happens IF we DON'T go over the cliff?" then that's a different matter.

Mainecoons
11-11-2012, 12:35 PM
It is not whether we go over the cliff, but when. Only a complete delusional fool thinks that we can continue with trillion dollar deficits and war on small business people from the Obama administration and not go over the cliff.

Sooner the better and less painful.

Peter1469
11-11-2012, 12:37 PM
The cliff isn't a cliff. It doesn't cut one penny. It only spends less than projected.

The cliff is coming through our increased debt spending and the possibility of collapsing the USD.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:45 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.html?iid=EL


If all the policies are allowed to go into effect, the CBO projects that the economy, as measured by GDP, will shrink by 0.5% between the fourth quarter of this year and the fourth quarter of next year. Unemployment, currently 8.3% (http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/03/news/economy/jobs-report-unemployment/index.htm?iid=EL), will rise to 9% in the second half of 2013. The CBO's forecast for 2013 has worsened since May, when it first forecast (http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.htm?iid=EL) the fiscal cliff would cause a recession.

The fiscal cliff would, however, improve the deficit picture greatly. The CBO forecasts the deficit will hit $1.1 trillion this year -- or 7.3% of GDP. But for 2013, it would fall to $641 billion, or 4% of GDP under the fiscal cliff. That would represent the biggest single year drop in the annual deficit as a percent of the economy since 1969.







Among them, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the enactment of $1 trillion in automatic, across the board spending cuts

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:45 PM
I refer to the cliff as the fall, not baby steps to prevent it. Like Maine I see nothing in the way our incompetent government can do to prevent it.

http://i.snag.gy/Ok5Dt.jpg

or

http://i.snag.gy/LsG9V.jpg

or

http://i.snag.gy/jl1N1.jpg

iow, we're screwed

http://i.snag.gy/WTjEQ.jpg

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:46 PM
gee cartoons instead of policy discussion

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
The cliff is not a cliff and if your a real decficit hawk you should like going over it

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
Among them, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the enactment of $1 trillion in automatic, across the board spending cuts

Drops in a bucket wide and deep as the ocean.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
tell us why you people dont want to go over this so called cliff?

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:48 PM
gee cartoons instead of policy discussion

You didn't ask for policy you asked what if we go over the cliff.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:48 PM
Drops in a bucket wide and deep as the ocean.


then why fear it?

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:48 PM
The cliff is not a cliff and if your a real decficit hawk you should like going over it

Then why'd you call it a cliff and ask what if we go over it?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:49 PM
explain why all the disaster you claim will happen?


I thought you guys wanted gov cut?

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:49 PM
tell us why you people dont want to go over this so called cliff?

See post #5.

Chris
11-11-2012, 12:49 PM
then why fear it?

Where'd you get your degree in psychology, cracker jacks box?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:50 PM
Tell us WHY you think your claims woudl materialize.

What would cause the results you claim would happen?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:51 PM
the taxes would go back to Clinton days.

did the economy collapse under Clinton?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:51 PM
Is it the cuts that would cause a reccession?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 12:54 PM
this shows how false your claims are of tax cuts being the cure to everything

roadmaster
11-11-2012, 12:57 PM
The cliff isn't a cliff. It doesn't cut one penny. It only spends less than projected.

The cliff is coming through our increased debt spending and the possibility of collapsing the USD.

Correct, it's just a matter of time. The real wealthy can move and not pay taxes. Put their money elsewhere ect. After the bailout many went overseas on our dime and we the taxpayers paid them to do it.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:06 PM
that is NOT what the CBO projected for this cliff folks.


facts matter.

they predict reccession and DEBT REDUCTION with it

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:08 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.html?iid=EL


If all the policies are allowed to go into effect, the CBO projects that the economy, as measured by GDP, will shrink by 0.5% between the fourth quarter of this year and the fourth quarter of next year. Unemployment, currently 8.3% (http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/03/news/economy/jobs-report-unemployment/index.htm?iid=EL), will rise to 9% in the second half of 2013. The CBO's forecast for 2013 has worsened since May, when it first forecast (http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.htm?iid=EL) the fiscal cliff would cause a recession.

The fiscal cliff would, however, improve the deficit picture greatly. The CBO forecasts the deficit will hit $1.1 trillion this year -- or 7.3% of GDP. But for 2013, it would fall to $641 billion, or 4% of GDP under the fiscal cliff. That would represent the biggest single year drop in the annual deficit as a percent of the economy since 1969.






The fiscal cliff would, however, improve the deficit picture greatly. The CBO forecasts the deficit will hit $1.1 trillion this year -- or 7.3% of GDP. But for 2013, it would fall to $641 billion, or 4% of GDP under the fiscal cliff. That would represent the biggest single year drop in the annual deficit as a percent of the economy since 1969.






facts matter

Mainecoons
11-11-2012, 01:08 PM
the taxes would go back to Clinton days.

did the economy collapse under Clinton?

Wrong as usual. Rescinding the entire Bush tax cut, most of which dollar-wise went to the middle and lower classes, would be returning to the Clinton taxes. Obama simply wants to target and class war against the people who already pay the bulk of the taxes.

I favor repealing the entire Bush tax cut package. It actually would raise some significant money and drive home the point that the government spends far too much on the people who really would have to pay for it if the present level of spending is continued but deficits are significantly reduced.

Obama's class warfare tax is not about doing anything seriious about the deficit. Never was. Obama isn't stupid and he knows the math as well as we do although it is clearly way above your pay grade.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:09 PM
You people dont really care about debt reduction

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:09 PM
Wrong as usual. Rescinding the entire Bush tax cut, most of which dollar-wise went to the middle and lower classes, would be returning to the Clinton taxes. Obama simply wants to target and class war against the people who already pay the bulk of the taxes.

I favor repealing the entire Bush tax cut package. It actually would raise some significant money and drive home the point that the government spends far too much on the people who really would have to pay for it if the present level of spending is continued but deficits are significantly reduced.

Obama's class warfare tax is not about doing anything seriious about the deficit. Never was. Obama isn't stupid and he knows the math as well as we do although it is clearly way above your pay grade.

then you shou;d like going over the cliff

Mainecoons
11-11-2012, 01:09 PM
:rofl:

See what I mean about "above pay grade?"

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:10 PM
why do you NOW like the clinton tax rate?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:11 PM
this will change the tax rate back to clinton days.

You guys forget you have been saying that would be economic disaster.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 01:12 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/22/news/economy/fiscal-cliff/index.html?iid=EL


now why do you want to avoid the cliff?

roadmaster
11-11-2012, 01:15 PM
You people dont really care about debt reduction

I do but this administration doesn't. Many illegals get tax back every year claiming children that don't live here and they don't look into if they are real. It's a game to them. They get enough to buy new cars. What do you get? Not saying the rep did either.

Mainecoons
11-11-2012, 01:16 PM
Sorry, "truthmatters," but you are now the one and only resident of my ignore list. I just don't have the patience to deal with total stupidity and likely mental illness.

Chris
11-11-2012, 01:41 PM
Tell us WHY you think your claims woudl materialize.

What would cause the results you claim would happen?

See post #5.

Chris
11-11-2012, 01:43 PM
Is it the cuts that would cause a reccession?

It would be not making drastic cuts would cause to take a nosedive.

Chris
11-11-2012, 01:43 PM
this shows how false your claims are of tax cuts being the cure to everything

Are you having an imaginary discussion? Who raised tax cuts?

Chris
11-11-2012, 01:45 PM
this will change the tax rate back to clinton days.

You guys forget you have been saying that would be economic disaster.

We're not living in the Clinton years, Rumpelstiltskin.

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 02:37 PM
that post is a useless meaningless post.

which does nothing but insult me.


why did you post it?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 02:38 PM
Are you having an imaginary discussion? Who raised tax cuts?


Are you saying the right does not promote tax cuts as a cure for everything?

truthmatters
11-11-2012, 02:39 PM
Sorry, "truthmatters," but you are now the one and only resident of my ignore list. I just don't have the patience to deal with total stupidity and likely mental illness.


You dont like the facts I bring you and have no way to defend your histortically failed ideas in light of those facts.

Ignore away it means nothing to me that you need to ignore facts

truthmatters
11-12-2012, 07:59 AM
the repoublicans dont seem to know anything about this issue.

yet they were sooo sure they would sin this election.


They really thought all that money would buy them an election.

now they have to deal with facts and those facts include an American public that didnt buy the lies paid for with big donnor money from the right.

Peter1469
11-12-2012, 08:35 AM
Sequestration does not cut anything. It is not a cliff. Sure it raises taxes, which is the wrong thing to do in a weak economy.

Sequestration cuts deficit spending by $1.5T over 10 years. Considering that current deficits run ~$1.3T per year, one should be able to realize that these cuts are modest at best. It cuts ~1/5 of a trillion per year while still spending ~$1.1T in deficit spending. It is a scam.

http://www.ideamoneywatch.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=72