View Full Version : Alan Dershowitz: ‘Violent’ Antifa movement is ‘trying to tear down America’
Common
08-24-2017, 03:34 AM
Democrats and even liberals along with independent swing voters realize whats is truly going on, who really are the violent ones
Trump is 1000% correct the left wing scum media is enabling the violence and encouraging it BY LIEING NON STOP DAILY and hiding the truth.
Alan Dershowitz: ‘Violent’ Antifa movement is ‘trying to tear down America’
‘I think it’s the obligation of liberals to speak out against the hard left radicals’
Prominent Harvard law professor and liberal author Alan Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) rebuked the hard-left militant movement Antifa on Tuesday, saying liberals need to avoid turning violent leftist factions into heroes.
Appearing (http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/22/tearing-down-statues-want-tear-down-america-dershowitz) on “Fox & Friends” Tuesday morning, Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) said the movement sweeping the country to take down Confederate-era statues that some find offensive is setting a dangerous precedent.
“Do not glorify the violent people who are now tearing down the statues,” he said. “Many of these people, not all of them, many of these people are trying to tear down America.
“Antifa is a radical anti-American, anti-free market, communist, socialist, hard, hard left censorial organization that tries to stop speakers on campuses from speaking,” Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) said. “They use violence. And just because they’re opposed to fascism and to some of these monuments shouldn’t make them heroes of the liberals.”
“I’m a liberal, and I think it’s the obligation of liberals to speak out against the hard left radicals just like it’s the obligation of conservatives to speak out against the extremism of the hard right,” he added.
Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) acknowledged that while some historical monuments are better suited in museums, liberals should avoid becoming Stalinist in trying to erase or revise history.
“We have to use this as an educational moment,” he said. “We have to take some of the statues that were put up more recently, for example, during the Civil Rights Movement and perhaps move them to museums where they can be used to teach young students about how statues are intended sometimes for bad purposes, to glorify negatives and to hold back positive developments.”
But the idea of willy-nilly going through and doing what Stalin did — just erasing history and re-writing it to serve current purposes — does pose a danger, and it poses a danger of educational malpractice, of missing opportunities to educate people, and of going too far,” he said.
Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) argued that the movement against Confederate-era statues ignores other discriminated groups in America, like Jews, women, and the Japanese.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/22/alan-dershowitz-violent-antifa-movement-is-trying-/
Refugee
08-24-2017, 05:35 AM
The problem with the left is that when they ally themselves to that pattern of thought and buy into the no blame and safe space rhetoric, it becomes difficult for them to attach blame to anything, or to supply an individual morality, as they surrendered that to the group collective. The cause for these groups has always been that the end justifies the means and so they’re unable any longer to distinguish between right and wrong, violence and non-violence, or even to understand a democratic election process.
Free speech becomes saying the right thing and the self-elected minority mob decided who or what is racist.
Reality becomes increasingly blurred for these people and the more they destroy tradition, the more they complain of the consequences as being the fault of others. Racism explains individual failure, riots become justified and the police reaction is fascism and elections, if the results don’t go as planned, become the fault of other countries. It’s a kind of group think and involves viewing the world not as it is, but as they think it should be.
Statues don’t glorify, they’re a historic reminder and whether they’re openly displayed, or behind the walls of a museum, they’re history and if you remove that, what you get is what the left want, a rewritten version of events and you can already see that happening as passages are taken out of education books, or completely ignored. It’s a slippery slope.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 07:42 AM
Democrats and even liberals along with independent swing voters realize whats is truly going on, who really are the violent ones
Trump is 1000% correct the left wing scum media is enabling the violence and encouraging it BY LIEING NON STOP DAILY and hiding the truth.
Alan Dershowitz: ‘Violent’ Antifa movement is ‘trying to tear down America’
‘I think it’s the obligation of liberals to speak out against the hard left radicals’
Prominent Harvard law professor and liberal author Alan Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) rebuked the hard-left militant movement Antifa on Tuesday, saying liberals need to avoid turning violent leftist factions into heroes.
Appearing (http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/22/tearing-down-statues-want-tear-down-america-dershowitz) on “Fox & Friends” Tuesday morning, Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) said the movement sweeping the country to take down Confederate-era statues that some find offensive is setting a dangerous precedent.
“Do not glorify the violent people who are now tearing down the statues,” he said. “Many of these people, not all of them, many of these people are trying to tear down America.
“Antifa is a radical anti-American, anti-free market, communist, socialist, hard, hard left censorial organization that tries to stop speakers on campuses from speaking,” Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) said. “They use violence. And just because they’re opposed to fascism and to some of these monuments shouldn’t make them heroes of the liberals.”
“I’m a liberal, and I think it’s the obligation of liberals to speak out against the hard left radicals just like it’s the obligation of conservatives to speak out against the extremism of the hard right,” he added.
Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) acknowledged that while some historical monuments are better suited in museums, liberals should avoid becoming Stalinist in trying to erase or revise history.
“We have to use this as an educational moment,” he said. “We have to take some of the statues that were put up more recently, for example, during the Civil Rights Movement and perhaps move them to museums where they can be used to teach young students about how statues are intended sometimes for bad purposes, to glorify negatives and to hold back positive developments.”
But the idea of willy-nilly going through and doing what Stalin did — just erasing history and re-writing it to serve current purposes — does pose a danger, and it poses a danger of educational malpractice, of missing opportunities to educate people, and of going too far,” he said.
Mr. Dershowitz (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/alan-dershowitz/) argued that the movement against Confederate-era statues ignores other discriminated groups in America, like Jews, women, and the Japanese.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/22/alan-dershowitz-violent-antifa-movement-is-trying-/
This^ is utter bullshit. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 08:02 AM
This^ is utter bullshit. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
^Rails against moral equivalence. Practices moral equivalence.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 08:04 AM
^Rails against moral equivalence. Practices moral equivalence.
There is no "moral equivalence" between Nazis and those protesting the Nazis. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 08:06 AM
There is no "moral equivalence" between Nazis and those protesting the Nazis. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
There is no moral equivalence to either side's violence. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
Ransom
08-24-2017, 08:34 AM
Those protesting. Antifa. Media sheep. Members here. It's all the exact same rabble. Hate this nation and want it brought down.
And why I'm a deplorable Trumpster who wished sincerely to make America Great again.
Mister D
08-24-2017, 08:39 AM
There is no "moral equivalence" between Nazis and those protesting the Nazis. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
Condones violence. Worries about Nazis.
Chloe
08-24-2017, 08:47 AM
Antifa leans itself towards violence in order to get their point across. They do not help make this country better anymore than the white nationalists do, BLM, the die hard MAGA people, or any other groups that only want it their way. I don't think any of those groups are supported as much or are as truly big and relevant as the media portrays them though.
Mister D
08-24-2017, 08:49 AM
Antifa leans itself towards violence in order to get their point across. They do not help make this country better anymore than the white nationalists do, BLM, the die hard MAGA people, or any other groups that only want it their way. I don't think any of those groups are supported as much or are as truly big and relevant as the media portrays them though.
They are all marginal.
Chris
08-24-2017, 08:49 AM
Antifa are post-modern Marxists, what do you expect, they want to tear down the existing social order and rebuild it in their image and under their control.
Chris
08-24-2017, 08:50 AM
They are all marginal.
The tip of an iceberg.
Chris
08-24-2017, 08:51 AM
This^ is utter bullshit. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
^^Whataboutism. Antifa but what about the right.
Tahuyaman
08-24-2017, 08:55 AM
This^ is utter bull$#@!. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
He makes some great points. Dershowitz is one of the mature liberals who can do that on occasion. . It's too bad people like you can't recognize that and heed his advice.
Tahuyaman
08-24-2017, 08:55 AM
^^Whataboutism. Antifa but what about the right.
In psychology, that would be called "the child reaction".
Cannons Front
08-24-2017, 09:02 AM
This^ is utter bull$#@!. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
I do not have time to list them all lets start here, I did not check them all so some might not be separate attacks, but it proves they are a violent group.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=antifa+attacks&qpvt=antifa+attacks&FORM=VDRE
Chris
08-24-2017, 09:03 AM
In psychology, that would be called "the child reaction".
But dad he started it!
Tahuyaman
08-24-2017, 09:07 AM
But dad he started it!
Emotional outbursts.
Common
08-24-2017, 09:42 AM
Antifa leans itself towards violence in order to get their point across. They do not help make this country better anymore than the white nationalists do, BLM, the die hard MAGA people, or any other groups that only want it their way. I don't think any of those groups are supported as much or are as truly big and relevant as the media portrays them though.
Damnit I wish I could thank this post like 50, 60 times
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 09:42 AM
Antifa leans itself towards violence in order to get their point across. They do not help make this country better anymore than the white nationalists do, BLM, the die hard MAGA people, or any other groups that only want it their way. I don't think any of those groups are supported as much or are as truly big and relevant as the media portrays them though.
Don't forget Sea Shepherd...
Common
08-24-2017, 09:44 AM
What liberals here and the media and the progressive nutjobs are NOT able to understand, is that normal everyday liberal democrats are against whats going on. Traditional union democrats have turned and independents do not like whats going on with the left.
People are tuning CNN out thats why fox is back on top of the ratings after losing its more prominent anchors.
Common
08-24-2017, 09:50 AM
This^ is utter bullshit. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
You have become so partisan dishonest I wouldnt waste my time
Hoosier8
08-24-2017, 09:50 AM
This^ is utter bull$#@!. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
Do you, like Antifa, believe that 'speech is violence'? Do you approve of their violence and destruction against any conservative speakers like Milo or Coulter?
Chloe
08-24-2017, 09:51 AM
Don't forget Sea Shepherd...
They are out to protect marine life. They aren't rioting in the streets, they aren't trying to dismantle the country to oppress others, they aren't trying to thwart diversity, they aren't blustering about nuclear arsenals, they aren't killing people with cars, and they aren't playing games with our country's infrastructure and health by passing or reversing legislation that only benefits one political side that happens to be in power. They are protecting cetaceans.
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 09:54 AM
They are out to protect marine life. They aren't rioting in the streets, they aren't trying to dismantle the country to oppress others, they aren't trying to thwart diversity, they aren't blustering about nuclear arsenals, they aren't killing people with cars, and they aren't playing games with our country's infrastructure and health by passing or reversing legislation that only benefits one political side that happens to be in power. They are protecting cetaceans.
^ Moral equivalence on violence. "It's OK to use violence if they protect marine life".
I suppose everyone has their triggers which justifies, in their mind, the use of violence to achieve a political end.
Ransom
08-24-2017, 10:05 AM
You have become so partisan dishonest I wouldnt waste my time
Since about 9:57pm Nov 8th, 2016
Ransom
08-24-2017, 10:05 AM
Do you, like Antifa, believe that 'speech is violence'? Do you approve of their violence and destruction against any conservative speakers like Milo or Coulter?
Crepitus = Antifa
Obviously
Common
08-24-2017, 10:09 AM
Crepitus = Antifa
Obviously
Crepitus doesnt understand what hes defending, hes just blindly defending anything that he thinks the right is against.
Chloe
08-24-2017, 12:10 PM
^ Moral equivalence on violence. "It's OK to use violence if they protect marine life".
I suppose everyone has their triggers which justifies, in their mind, the use of violence to achieve a political end.
Can you go one thread without trying to pick a fight? Just one? I didn't say it was ok to use violence to protect marine life. Comparing Sea Shepard to Antifa or the KKK is just stupid.
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 12:24 PM
Can you go one thread without trying to pick a fight? Just one? I didn't say it was ok to use violence to protect marine life. Comparing Sea Shepard to Antifa or the KKK is just stupid.
They are all political groups that employ violence to further their agenda... Just because you happen to agree with the Sea Shepard's political agenda doesn't mean the comparison isn't valid.
I'm not trying to pick a fight... We're on a political debate board... Grow up.
The Xl
08-24-2017, 12:25 PM
Antifa leans itself towards violence in order to get their point across. They do not help make this country better anymore than the white nationalists do, BLM, the die hard MAGA people, or any other groups that only want it their way. I don't think any of those groups are supported as much or are as truly big and relevant as the media portrays them though.
Well said
Chloe
08-24-2017, 12:37 PM
They are all political groups that employ violence to further their agenda... Just because you happen to agree with the Sea Shepard's political agenda doesn't mean the comparison isn't valid.
I'm not trying to pick a fight... We're on a political debate board... Grow up.
Nonsense. Sea Shepherd wasn't the topic and I never even mentioned them. You saw an opportunity to try and call me out over something that wasn't even part of the topic. I need to grow up? All you do is mope around here while trying to nitpick random points without ever actually having the courage to give your own actual opinion on a topic. Then you do your standard immature, passive aggressive responses while pretending to be on the high ground. Sea shephard is not rioting in the streets, killing people with cars, calling for white or black nationalism, wanting to dismantle the nation, or promoting racist and bigoted agendas. You are ONLY comparing them to those groups because you know I like them. A lot of people agreed with what I said earlier. All you did was try to annoy me. Yeah you're just so grown up.
Agent Cooper
08-24-2017, 01:03 PM
There is no moral equivalence to either side's violence. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
And what violence, pray tell, comes from the right side?
I suppose you'll say KKK and Nazism. If so, empty your head of the nonsense being crammed into it by the media. I've been conservative all my life. I've never known a Nazi and I've never known a KKK member.
Chloe
08-24-2017, 01:08 PM
And what violence, pray tell, comes from the right side?
I suppose you'll say KKK and Nazism. If so, empty your head of the nonsense being crammed into it by the media. I've been conservative all my life. I've never known a Nazi and I've never known a KKK member.
Are you trying to say that since you don't know a member of the KKK or a neo nazi that they aren't violent? Or are you trying to say that there are no members of the KKK or neo nazis on the right?
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 01:17 PM
Nonsense. Sea Shepherd wasn't the topic and I never even mentioned them. You saw an opportunity to try and call me out over something that wasn't even part of the topic. I need to grow up? All you do is mope around here while trying to nitpick random points without ever actually having the courage to give your own actual opinion on a topic. Then you do your standard immature, passive aggressive responses while pretending to be on the high ground. Sea shephard is not rioting in the streets, killing people with cars, calling for white or black nationalism, wanting to dismantle the nation, or promoting racist and bigoted agendas. You are ONLY comparing them to those groups because you know I like them. A lot of people agreed with what I said earlier. All you did was try to annoy me. Yeah you're just so grown up.
Neither was MAGA or BLM but you used them as examples. The topic of this thread is the use of violence by groups to further an agenda. And I could care less if I annoy you or not. You're a child that cries and needs a safe space when someone takes you to task on your opinions.
Are you triggered? Tough. Welcome to the real world.
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 01:19 PM
And what violence, pray tell, comes from the right side?
I suppose you'll say KKK and Nazism. If so, empty your head of the nonsense being crammed into it by the media. I've been conservative all my life. I've never known a Nazi and I've never known a KKK member.
To say that violence on the right doesn't exist is simply moronic. From abortion doctor shootings to racists to Nazism to any myriad of things... Talk about an empty head...
Chloe
08-24-2017, 01:50 PM
Neither was MAGA or BLM but you used them as examples. The topic of this thread is the use of violence by groups to further an agenda. And I could care less if I annoy you or not. You're a child that cries and needs a safe space when someone takes you to task on your opinions.
Are you triggered? Tough. Welcome to the real world.
Ok whatever, namaste
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 02:02 PM
Ok whatever, namaste
Kinda what I thought.
Refugee
08-24-2017, 05:24 PM
They’re all fair points, but really, you can’t excuse violence by using, ‘someone else does it as well’ as an excuse. The Trump supporters
are not staging violent protests in the streets covered in black. The KKK are not rioting and looting in Ferguson or Baltimore, the right did not attack Clinton and Sanders supporters in counter demonstrations and to equate everyone on the right as Nazis, is a bit like saying all liberals are Stalinists.
You want to see the same violence? It’s the same in Europe and it’s coming from people with the same mindset. If you want to broadly align yourself to an anarchist like ideology that uses the sound bites of Smash the system, kill whitey and shoot the police; the keywords say it all.
It’s all coming from a small hard-left fringe minority and rather than concentrate on individual acts of violence, you ought to wonder what went wrong with society to produce these kind of groups, because they didn’t come out into the streets under Reagan, or Bush, which is what you would expect. The answer is nearly a decade of Obama’s minority group identity politics, in which these people were allowed to run virtually unpossessed through society, forcing their views on others through intimidation and violence.
Obama did warn you in 2008, when he spoke of creating a ‘civilian national security force’ - in other eras it was known under such titles as a red guard. You’re now having to fight these left-over and updated terminology Obama type shock troops in the streets and it might be a lesson learned?
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 06:46 PM
There is no moral equivalence to either side's violence. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
Um, after reading your statement I don't think you know what "moral equivalence" means.
Hoosier8
08-24-2017, 06:54 PM
Um, after reading your statement I don't think you know what "moral equivalence" means.
Moral equivalence, the way you use it, may be used in an attempt to claim one isn't as bad as the other by comparison. Drawing a moral equivalence in this way is a logical fallacy.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 07:04 PM
Condones violence. Worries about Nazis.
Unable to respond to post, resorts to insults.
Private Pickle
08-24-2017, 07:08 PM
Um, after reading your statement I don't think you know what "moral equivalence" means.
Cool story.
Hoosier8
08-24-2017, 07:08 PM
Unable to respond to post, resorts to insults.
Well, you are the one using a logical fallacy to excuse left wing violence.
Ethereal
08-24-2017, 07:14 PM
There is no "moral equivalence" between Nazis and those protesting the Nazis. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
Antifa are communists. The commies killed over a hundred million people in Russia and China. Try again.
Refugee
08-24-2017, 07:25 PM
There is a reason that extreme liberalism is termed liberal fascism. When you look at the violence of BLM and Antifa, closing down free speech in meetings, disrupting the protests of those that don’t agree, prejudice against whites, defacing statues . . . What comes next, book burning and pogroms against whites? These groups are the real and visible 21st century equivalent of Nazi brown shirts, not people with different opinions, Trump voters, or main stream Americans.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 07:34 PM
^^Whataboutism. Antifa but what about the right.
Wrong. The "whataboutism" as you call it was begun by trump in his speech a couple of weeks ago in an attempt to excuse the nazi terrorist who killed a woman with his car. You conservatives have been running with it ever since.
hanger4
08-24-2017, 07:36 PM
Wrong. The "whataboutism" as you call it was begun by trump in his speech a couple of weeks ago in an attempt to excuse the nazi terrorist who killed a woman with his car. You conservatives have been running with it ever since.
He excused no one, he blamed everyone.
Hoosier8
08-24-2017, 07:39 PM
Wrong. The "whataboutism" as you call it was begun by trump in his speech a couple of weeks ago in an attempt to excuse the nazi terrorist who killed a woman with his car. You conservatives have been running with it ever since.
I know, denouncing violence and bigotry just ain't enough of the left. Probably because it implicates the left wing violence.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 07:39 PM
He makes some great points. Dershowitz is one of the mature liberals who can do that on occasion. . It's too bad people like you can't recognize that and heed his advice.
Dershowitz has become fox news's pet.
Hoosier8
08-24-2017, 07:41 PM
Dershowitz has become fox news's pet.
Because liberals that see the ignorance of left wing propaganda cannot be tolerated.
Mister D
08-24-2017, 07:43 PM
He excused no one, he blamed everyone.
hanger, he's never going to get it.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 07:46 PM
I do not have time to list them all lets start here, I did not check them all so some might not be separate attacks, but it proves they are a violent group.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=antifa+attacks&qpvt=antifa+attacks&FORM=VDRE
30 second youtube snippets with no context and no proof of who is doing what or who started it doesn't prove anything except how desperate you are for them to be equal.
Hoosier8
08-24-2017, 07:48 PM
30 second youtube snippets with no context and no proof of who is doing what or who started it doesn't prove anything except how desperate you are for them to be equal.
Of course the lefts known and demonstrated violence time and again is to be ignored.
Chris
08-24-2017, 07:54 PM
30 second youtube snippets with no context and no proof of who is doing what or who started it doesn't prove anything except how desperate you are for them to be equal.
I just reviewed a number of timelines of the events in Charlottesville and the closest you will get is "violence between white nationalists and counter-protesters began in the morning."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-led-violence-unfolded-charlottesville/story?id=49207428
http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/charlottesville-violence-a-timeline-of-events
Tahuyaman
08-24-2017, 08:33 PM
Dershowitz has become fox news's pet.
He's one of the few Democrats who's also a mature and reasonable adult.
Refugee
08-24-2017, 08:39 PM
Antifa are communists. The commies killed over a hundred million people in Russia and China. Try again.
Although it’s certainly true some will be, they’re actually anarchists, using anti-racism and anti-fascism as an excuse. There purpose is to take over what are often legitimate and peaceful demonstrations and provide the rioting and chaos they invariably turn into. What you’re seeing with Antifa, is a perfect example of cultural Marxism. You’ll find the same people in anti-capitalist, BLM and occupy demonstrations, or anywhere there’s a demonstration against the system, or authority.
It’s often difficult for liberals to condemn these groups because the demonstration reasons in the first place might be sound and so they feel a need to legitimise the blame for the resulting violence onto something or someone else, or to state as on here in an effort not to judge and in typically neutral language, that both sides are responsible. Not so; if anarchists come onto the streets, dressed in black with masks on, carrying sticks and shields, with the sole intention to cause violence and disrupt free movement and speech, both sides are not equally responsible.
It is possible though to condemn these far-left groups and still remain a liberal and it doesn’t make anyone a Nazi to say that all lives matter, or everyone is entitled to free speech, or that black on black crime kills more blacks than any whites have. In that context, liberals have to stop sitting on the fence with their non-judgemental views and learn to distinguish between right and wrong.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 09:10 PM
You have become so partisan dishonest I wouldnt waste my time
You mean you know the actual side by side comparison won't support your narrative.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 09:11 PM
Do you, like Antifa, believe that 'speech is violence'? Do you approve of their violence and destruction against any conservative speakers like Milo or Coulter?
Nice deflection, care to respond to the post now?
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 09:48 PM
Moral equivalence, the way you use it, may be used in an attempt to claim one isn't as bad as the other by comparison. Drawing a moral equivalence in this way is a logical fallacy.
Wrong. The way it's being tossed around here people are using it to say both sides are equally bad.
You did get one part right, it is a logical fallacy.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 09:57 PM
Cool story.
Truth often is.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 09:58 PM
Well, you are the one using a logical fallacy to excuse left wing violence.
Look it up.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:00 PM
Antifa are communists. The commies killed over a hundred million people in Russia and China. Try again.
They aren't communists, they are anarcists. Anyway if touch want to go down that road you gotta start counting all the slaves that dies and how many Jews did the Nazis murder ?
Ethereal
08-24-2017, 10:04 PM
They aren't communists, they are anarcists.
Communists ARE anarchists.
Anyway if touch want to go down that road you gotta start counting all the slaves that dies and how many Jews did the Nazis murder ?
Far less than the communists killed, that's for sure.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:07 PM
He excused no one, he blamed everyone.
He attempted to shift the blame from the white supremacists to everyone else. Most folks, even most Congress critters, didn't fall for it.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:09 PM
I know, denouncing violence and bigotry just ain't enough of the left. Probably because it implicates the left wing violence.
If you know, as you said in response to my post, who do you deny it in the same post?
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:13 PM
Of course the lefts known and demonstrated violence time and again is to be ignored.
Post up something real and prove your point. I'm waiting. Hell, I'll even accept a Wikipedia article, but not unatributed youtube videos.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:15 PM
I just reviewed a number of timelines of the events in Charlottesville and the closest you will get is "violence between white nationalists and counter-protesters began in the morning."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-led-violence-unfolded-charlottesville/story?id=49207428
http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/charlottesville-violence-a-timeline-of-events
Closest I will get to what?
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:20 PM
He's one of the few Democrats who's also a mature and reasonable adult.
Again, you only think that because he supports your bias.
Kalkin
08-24-2017, 10:24 PM
Um, after reading your statement I don't think you know what "moral equivalence" means.
Judging by your posts, it seems you don't think much at all.
Crepitus
08-24-2017, 10:36 PM
Communists ARE anarchists.
Far less than the communists killed, that's for sure.
Yeah......no.
Tahuyaman
08-24-2017, 10:40 PM
Again, you only think that because he supports your bias.I think that because he has common sense. That's a rare thing with liberals.
hanger4
08-24-2017, 10:41 PM
He attempted to shift the blame from the white supremacists to everyone else. Most folks, even most Congress critters, didn't fall for it.
He shifted no blame, he assigned the blame where it belonged, on All.
You've been educated on what antifa is and what they espouse, we already know what supremacists, neo nazis and the kkk is, why do you persist in this stupidity ??
Tahuyaman
08-24-2017, 10:43 PM
Communists ARE anarchists.
Anarchists believe in no government. Communists are not of that mind-set.
Refugee
08-25-2017, 12:30 AM
You’ve got it, Tahuyaman :)
Sharing blame equally is like killing in self-defence and being told you’re as violent as the attacker was. There is a right and wrong, not just a subjective morality that allows individual choice. To prevent violently, or try to disrupt free speech is wrong, despite the excuses of, ‘you can’t say that’, or because someone might be offended. That is totalitarianism and far removed from the earlier liberal ideas of creating a colour blind, legalised drugs, multicultural utopia.
What you see now is where a liberal society was always heading, but many refused to believe it.
Private Pickle
08-25-2017, 06:18 AM
Truth often is.
If you say so. Kudos to you for slithering your way out of the discussion.
Common
08-25-2017, 06:24 AM
You’ve got it, Tahuyaman :)
Sharing blame equally is like killing in self-defence and being told you’re as violent as the attacker was. There is a right and wrong, not just a subjective morality that allows individual choice. To prevent violently, or try to disrupt free speech is wrong, despite the excuses of, ‘you can’t say that’, or because someone might be offended. That is totalitarianism and far removed from the earlier liberal ideas of creating a colour blind, legalised drugs, multicultural utopia.
What you see now is where a liberal society was always heading, but many refused to believe it.
Then antifa was the one that was wrong, FREE SPEECH isnt just for drooling liberal idiot kids. Free Speech is for everyone.
The violence at ALL the rallies is the left, they have initiated the violence at every single rally.
DGUtley
08-25-2017, 06:55 AM
Antifa is the Democrats' Hitleronian Brown Shirts -- the violent militant enforcement arm. As the NYT's said: Peace through violence. I don't think the people will agree with them.
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 07:11 AM
I think that because he has common sense. That's a rare thing with liberals.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/Ra8NVEGE9YJBC/giphy.gif
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 07:28 AM
He shifted no blame, he assigned the blame where it belonged, on All.
You've been educated on what antifa is and what they espouse, we already know what supremacists, neo nazis and the kkk is, why do you persist in this stupidity ??
Sorry but that is incorrect. The Nazis ans those who persist in defending them (like tRump and yourself) are responsible.
hanger4
08-25-2017, 08:10 AM
Sorry but that is incorrect. The Nazis ans those who persist in defending them (like tRump and yourself) are responsible.
How can I be defending the nazis etal when I condemn the violence of both sides ?? All you're doing is ignoring the violence of one side to score partisan points. And that's truly sad.
Refugee
08-25-2017, 10:01 AM
Then antifa was the one that was wrong, FREE SPEECH isnt just for drooling liberal idiot kids. Free Speech is for everyone.
The violence at ALL the rallies is the left, they have initiated the violence at every single rally.
Yes, always, in every recent times demonstration you care to name, you’ll find that minority led demonstrations end in violence. If you go on a demonstration shouting that the police are killers, the population are all racists and anyone who disagrees is a Nazi, (you must be breeding a lot of Nazis in America since Obama got elected :)), you’re going to get totally ignored. Unfortunately, violence makes news and suddenly the silly little black costume and safety in numbers makes them into a kind of folk hero in their own minds, a superman thing, they become a part of something, whereas in real life most of them are individual losers. You see the same kind of psychology in street gangs/groups.
You can hear the violence in the slogans which all revolve around the words stop, kill, smash, destroy. These groups can close down a campus, a business district in an occupy demonstration, or halt the traffic on a free way . . . Imagine the feeling of power that gives them. Always a chance of some freebie looting as well. You didn’t see this under previous presidents and it’s no use asking them to stop. Trump has to give power back to the police and public to stop them and that’s when they’ll melt away because at heart and individually, they’re cowards who prey on a weakened society through sheer force of numbers.
This^ is utter bullshit. Why don't you list some acts of "violent antifa movement" and we will line them up against some of the RWNJ attacks in the last few years, or hell, even just the last year..
I swear, Common does a daily Google search to find out what stupid crap "lifelong liberal" Dershowitz said yesterday ;-)
And what violence, pray tell, comes from the right side?
I suppose you'll say KKK and Nazism. If so, empty your head of the nonsense being crammed into it by the media. I've been conservative all my life. I've never known a Nazi and I've never known a KKK member.
Perhaps you don't know know any Nazis or Klansmen - but there are tens of thousands of them and every one voted for tRump.
Hoosier8
08-25-2017, 10:09 AM
Perhaps you don't know know any Nazis or Klansmen - but there are tens of thousands of them and every one voted for tRump.
And commies that are responsible for more death voted for Bernie. Your point? Don't like voting?
Mister D
08-25-2017, 10:10 AM
Perhaps you don't know know any Nazis or Klansmen - but there are tens of thousands of them and every one voted for tRump.
They would then represent a small fraction of 1% of the people who voted for Trump. lol
Hoosier8
08-25-2017, 10:13 AM
They would then represent a small fraction of 1% of the people who voted for Trump. lol
Maybe Bo-4 is a member and knows more about them than we do.
They would then represent a small fraction of 1% of the people who voted for Trump. lol
Nay - Breitbart has millions of regular alt-right readers 99% of whom voted for Trump.
In February, a press release from Breitbart.com announced they were “the 29th most trafficked site in the United States, surpassing PornHub and ESPN.”
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/breitbart-coms-readership-numbers-are-plummeting-in-what-should-be-its-hour-of-triumph/
He ended up winning by 77,000 votes in three states (Nazis and Klansmen put him over the top ;-)
Tahuyaman
08-25-2017, 10:18 AM
Maybe @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297) is a member and knows more about them than we do.
He does claim Idaho as his home.
Agent Cooper
08-25-2017, 10:30 AM
Bo...I got a notice that you quoted me. Don't waste your time. Here's your clue:
Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/members/1297-Bo-4)
This message is hidden because Bo-4 is on your ignore list (http://thepoliticalforums.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist).
Mister D
08-25-2017, 10:34 AM
Nay - Breitbart has millions of regular alt-right readers 99% of whom voted for Trump.
In February, a press release from Breitbart.com announced they were “the 29th most trafficked site in the United States, surpassing PornHub and ESPN.”
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/breitbart-coms-readership-numbers-are-plummeting-in-what-should-be-its-hour-of-triumph/
He ended up winning by 77,000 votes in three states (Nazis and Klansmen put him over the top ;-)
Be dignified Bo.
Perhaps you don't know know any Nazis or Klansmen - but there are tens of thousands of them and every one voted for tRump.
They would then represent a small fraction of 1% of the people who voted for Trump. lol
Kalkin
08-25-2017, 11:25 AM
Be dignified Bo.
As long as we're living in fantasy land, let's ask him to use his head for something other than a hat stand, too.
Be dignified Bo.
They would then represent a small fraction of 1% of the people who voted for Trump. lol
Nah - I'd guess minimally 25% of Trump voters were Despicables.
Common
08-25-2017, 01:07 PM
Nah - I'd guess minimally 25% of Trump voters were Despicables.
75% of liberals are shitbags :)
Chris
08-25-2017, 01:12 PM
75% of liberals are shitbags :)
Oh come on you're overgeneralizing! Lol.
Ransom
08-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Nah - I'd guess minimally 25% of Trump voters were Despicables.
But you've been correct less than 25% of the time regarding everything Trump. As I've urged Members to do many times....yourself, del, Safety, Common Sense, Dr. Who, Crepitus, Cigar, Bethere ...go back and read your pre-election posts.
And .250 batting average I'm being nice. You've been so wrong I'm surprised you still post.
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 08:12 PM
How can I be defending the nazis etal when I condemn the violence of both sides ?? All you're doing is ignoring the violence of one side to score partisan points. And that's truly sad.
As I've mentioned before, when you equate the Nazis with the people protesting them you are giving them the legitimacy they crave.
hanger4
08-25-2017, 08:20 PM
As I've mentioned before, when you equate the Nazis with the people protesting them you are giving them the legitimacy they crave.
And when you ignore the violence of the leftwing all the while condemning the violence of the rightwing you do the truth a disservice.
Cletus
08-25-2017, 08:31 PM
Perhaps you don't know know any Nazis or Klansmen - but there are tens of thousands of them and every one voted for tRump.
Out of a population of over 300 million people, the FBI estimates that there are about 6 thousand people in the KKK. Some estimates go as high as 10 thousand, but most credible ones place the number between 6 and 8 thousand Klan members.
Cletus
08-25-2017, 08:34 PM
As I've mentioned before, when you equate the Nazis with the people protesting them you are giving them the legitimacy they crave.
Wrong again. There really is little difference between the groups, except the fact that the "anti-Fascists" are more violent. Comparing them doesn't give either group any legitimacy. YOU are doing that by suggesting one of them has some claim to legitimacy.
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 08:51 PM
And when you ignore the violence of the leftwing all the while condemning the violence of the rightwing you do the truth a disservice.
I'm not ignoring it, but it is completely overshadowed.
Mister D
08-25-2017, 08:53 PM
I'm not ignoring it, but it is completely overshadowed.
No, you're ignoring it. I mean now that you actually know what they are what they are known for. :wink:
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 08:58 PM
Wrong again. There really is little difference between the groups, except the fact that the "anti-Fascists" are more violent. Comparing them doesn't give either group any legitimacy. YOU are doing that by suggesting one of them has some claim to legitimacy.
You are still doing it.
resister
08-25-2017, 09:50 PM
As I've mentioned before, when you equate the Nazis with the people protesting them you are giving them the legitimacy they crave.
All good and well if they were "protesting" get it right, they are violent rioters:rollseyes:
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 10:26 PM
All good and well if they were "protesting" get it right, they are violent rioters:rollseyes:
You talk like you expect them to go climb into dodge chargers and go mow down a crowd or something.
resister
08-25-2017, 10:30 PM
You talk like you expect them to go climb into dodge chargers and go mow down a crowd or something.Unlike you, I squarely condemn the violence on all sides, try it.
"whataboutism" is justification!
resister
08-25-2017, 10:32 PM
You talk like you expect them to go climb into dodge chargers and go mow down a crowd or something.
19668 Yeah, just throw IED's into the crowd and beat the shit out of people with no regaurd for the possible out come.
resister
08-25-2017, 10:45 PM
You talk like you expect them to go climb into dodge chargers and go mow down a crowd or something.
Because one guy committed a most egregious act of violence, it makes it OK to ignore hundreds of personal assaults and lord knows what all else.:rollseyes:
I knew just as sure as night follows day, that you would default back to that as a deflection, instead of you know, condemning all the violence no matter the source. You call rioters, "protesters":rollseyes:
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 11:25 PM
Unlike you, I squarely condemn the violence on all sides, try it.
"whataboutism" is justification!
It isn't the "whataboutism" thing you keep repeating, calling them equals is granting the Nazis the main stream legitimacy they have been trying to get for decades.
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 11:27 PM
19668 Yeah, just throw IED's into the crowd and beat the shit out of people with no regaurd for the possible out come.
Yeah, you've posted that about a dozen times now, still doesn't make them equal.
Crepitus
08-25-2017, 11:30 PM
Because one guy committed a most egregious act of violence, it makes it OK to ignore hundreds of personal assaults and lord knows what all else.:rollseyes:
I knew just as sure as night follows day, that you would default back to that as a deflection, instead of you know, condemning all the violence no matter the source. You call rioters, "protesters":rollseyes:
Please post up this evidence of "hundreds of personal assaults".
In fact, as I've asked before, why don't you post up a list of violent actions by the antifascist and BLM crowd and we will compare.
resister
08-25-2017, 11:31 PM
Yeah, you've posted that about a dozen times now, still doesn't make them equal.
Ok, so the group that has the worst offender is the only one to condemn. I wonder if the driver and victims roles were reversed, how you would feel?
resister
08-25-2017, 11:34 PM
Please post up this evidence of "hundreds of personal assaults".
In fact, as I've asked before, why don't you post up a list of violent actions by the antifascist and BLM crowd and we will compare.
Did you not see all the bloodied people walking around? As for your request? No, last time I did that with you, you did not reciprocate and when I called you, you mildly insulted me. No thank you. Believe whatever you want.
AeonPax
08-26-2017, 01:23 AM
`
`
Related; “They have no allegiance to liberal democracy”: an expert on antifa explains the group. (https://www.vox.com/2017/8/25/16189064/antifa-charlottesville-activism-mark-bray-interview)
Safety
08-26-2017, 04:40 AM
Nah - I'd guess minimally 25% of Trump voters were Despicables.
Cut your losses, once the KKK/Nazi sympathizers enter the fray to talk about how "insignificant" their numbers are, it's time to let go and let god. There's too many to try and reason with here.
hanger4
08-26-2017, 05:39 AM
It isn't the "whataboutism" thing you keep repeating, calling them equals is granting the Nazis the main stream legitimacy they have been trying to get for decades.
Antifa and whatever other violent leftwing groups showing up to oppose the nazis granted the legitimacy you fear Crepitus.
Ransom
08-26-2017, 06:28 AM
Please post up this evidence of "hundreds of personal assaults".
In fact, as I've asked before, why don't you post up a list of violent actions by the antifascist and BLM crowd and we will compare.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article141150558.html
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000003255335/ferguson-weeps-then-burns.html?mcubz=0
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/11/violence-erupts-in-ferguson-missouri-tic-toc-young-dnt-erin.cnn
What's happened to you Crepitus since Nov 8th, 2016 at 9:47pm remains a case study in denial, anger, resentment over losing, and unreason.
You can claim reality didn't happen, do you need more examples to make yourself look even more foolish here? I found these in 5 seconds.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/05/26/baltimore-violent-crime-after-freddie-gray-death-marquez-dnt-tsr.cnn
Ransom
08-26-2017, 06:31 AM
By the way. Bethere, Safety, Bo, many others here openly defended BLM during these violence, police shootings, murders. It's clear who bring the violence. The unrest. These projection arguments entertaining but the facts remain, it's the Left pushing this division and violence.
Thugs. And treasonous thugs at that.
Ransom
08-26-2017, 06:34 AM
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5506928583001/?#sp=show-clips
y'all can run but not hide and have associated yourselves with this violence. There isn't a member here who supports 'white nationalists' nor the kkk, nor has advocated their causes. The Left on the other hand is on these pages in volumes defending the Left's civil unrest.
And are clearly to blame.
Hoosier8
08-26-2017, 07:13 AM
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5506928583001/?#sp=show-clips
y'all can run but not hide and have associated yourselves with this violence. There isn't a member here who supports 'white nationalists' nor the kkk, nor has advocated their causes. The Left on the other hand is on these pages in volumes defending the Left's civil unrest.
And are clearly to blame.
Hadn't thought of that but it is true. At the Charleston event where the democrat leaders insured there would be violence Antifa and BLM threw rocks and bottles injuring people that were forced to leave the permitted protest by police without protection. Those on the left defend such actions. Didn't matter if they were KKK or not.
Peter1469
08-26-2017, 07:19 AM
I am convinced that this group comes from those who have protested the G-20 and other global fiscal organizations for at least the last decade- the ones that are violent and destroy property wherever they go.
The media isn't going to make the link. They agree with these groups and their actions.
Ransom
08-26-2017, 07:53 AM
Hadn't thought of that but it is true. At the Charleston event where the democrat leaders insured there would be violence Antifa and BLM threw rocks and bottles injuring people that were forced to leave the permitted protest by police without protection. Those on the left defend such actions. Didn't matter if they were KKK or not.
They shot at police in Ferguson.
Refugee
08-26-2017, 08:57 AM
It’s refreshing to hear people starting to speak freely again and not be frightened of a backlash. Those in the minority who supported the violence of the past years are now hearing exactly what people thought of them and voted against, although they couldn’t say it publicly at the time. The riots, the looting, people getting dragged from their cars and beaten, the police killings, the threats against whites . . .
Think yourselves lucky that the vast majority of people are not Nazis or KKK, because the resulting white backlash would have been terrible.
Peter1469
08-26-2017, 08:59 AM
forget it
Common
08-26-2017, 08:59 AM
Its like anything else when it goes to far, america rejects it. The progressive far left have gone waaaaaaaay to far. Obama liberals have already been rejected and they were milder than these new whackjobs
Common
08-26-2017, 09:02 AM
Its going to be interesting who runs for Potus 2020 as a Dem. Pocahontas cant win neither can Bernie Sanders and especially Hillary.
Hopefully Maxine Waters, Pelosi and Wasserman Schultz will run
Refugee
08-26-2017, 09:14 AM
Its going to be interesting who runs for Potus 2020 as a Dem. Pocahontas cant win neither can Bernie Sanders and especially Hillary.
Hopefully Maxine Waters, Pelosi and Wasserman Schultz will run
I'm a bit behind on these people, but Pelosi? Haven't they certified her yet?
19672
Crepitus
08-26-2017, 09:34 AM
Ok, so the group that has the worst offender is the only one to condemn. I wonder if the driver and victims roles were reversed, how you would feel?
No deflecting now, this isn't about me.
Still waiting for that list anti-fascist violence BTW.
Crepitus
08-26-2017, 09:37 AM
Did you not see all the bloodied people walking around? As for your request? No, last time I did that with you, you did not reciprocate and when I called you, you mildly insulted me. No thank you. Believe whatever you want.
You've never done it. A few unatributed and unproven 30 second youtube snippets is not proof of anything.
When you try to defend the indefensible you will lose every time.
Crepitus
08-26-2017, 09:44 AM
Antifa and whatever other violent leftwing groups showing up to oppose the nazis granted the legitimacy you fear Crepitus.
Lol, so what you are saying is that even our radical fringe is more credible and accepted by both sides than yours?
Crepitus
08-26-2017, 09:53 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article141150558.html
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000003255335/ferguson-weeps-then-burns.html?mcubz=0
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/11/violence-erupts-in-ferguson-missouri-tic-toc-young-dnt-erin.cnn
What's happened to you Crepitus since Nov 8th, 2016 at 9:47pm remains a case study in denial, anger, resentment over losing, and unreason.
You can claim reality didn't happen, do you need more examples to make yourself look even more foolish here? I found these in 5 seconds.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/05/26/baltimore-violent-crime-after-freddie-gray-death-marquez-dnt-tsr.cnn
Ok, the Miami thing never mentioned the political affiliation of the shooter (s) and the other two are link to the same Ferguson incident. No one died in any of them.
You still haven't topped the Charlottesville total of one.
hanger4
08-26-2017, 11:23 AM
Lol, so what you are saying is that even our radical fringe is more credible and accepted by both sides than yours?
No Crepitus, my words mean exactly what they state. Without antifa's presence you wouldn't have heard of Charlottesville, nothing, nada, zilch.
Hoosier8
08-26-2017, 11:35 AM
Ok, the Miami thing never mentioned the political affiliation of the shooter (s) and the other two are link to the same Ferguson incident. No one died in any of them.
You still haven't topped the Charlottesville total of one.
The left, the media, and democrat incompetence insured what happened in Charlottesville. Congrats.
Crepitus
08-26-2017, 01:33 PM
No Crepitus, my words mean exactly what they state. Without antifa's presence you wouldn't have heard of Charlottesville, nothing, nada, zilch.
As previously mentioned, that's akin to blaming a rape victim for the crime.
Crepitus
08-26-2017, 01:38 PM
The left, the media, and democrat incompetence insured what happened in Charlottesville. Congrats.
You are another one blaming the victim for the crime. Is that the newest RWNJ talking point?
hanger4
08-26-2017, 01:52 PM
As previously mentioned, that's akin to blaming a rape victim for the crime.
No it's not Crepitus, your games of equivalency are childish.
resister
08-26-2017, 02:22 PM
19678Anitfa can kiss ass!
Chris
08-26-2017, 02:24 PM
You are another one blaming the victim for the crime. Is that the newest RWNJ talking point?
"The left, the media, and democrat incompetence" are victims? :poopfan:
Hoosier8
08-26-2017, 04:15 PM
You are another one blaming the victim for the crime. Is that the newest RWNJ talking point?
You excuse left wing violence and democrat incompetence, plain and simple.
Refugee
08-27-2017, 12:12 AM
I don’t think some have got the hang of Antifa.
The anarchism (http://changemyworld.forumotion.com/t23-anarchism) of Antifa is not the ideological type of the 20th century, the updated version and those who support them generally comprise the losers of society; society outcasts, rebels without a cause, the unemployed, those with a grudge against society . . . and get their updated name from the (anarchy) social chaos they cause.
They invariably pop up at times of social change and upheaval, mass unemployment and in weakened societies. They’re more about destroying everything than they are about wanting something and they’ll attach themselves to all the large lost cause demonstrations, such as the anti G summits, occupy movements, smash capitalism, BLM . . . They have to do that because they have no coherent cause themselves.
They were popular amongst the young in the UK in the late 70s, early 80s class war ‘Punk’ period of mass unemployment and largely ignored, they resorted to violence to get the publicity they craved. It’s making a come back now, they’re more organised and the new version comes with the black clothes and masks and added violence. If you read the lyrics to one of the songs from that period, it explains the nihilism, just as it does now, behind their philosophy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkruBYwJZNw
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