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View Full Version : Arizona lawmaker has it right.



AZ Jim
08-30-2017, 11:52 PM
This guy is GOP but I agree 100% about this subject. His idea may not be the best but something along this these lines is a damn good idea. I have long said if you are too cowardly to show your face, you don't deserve a place in the "debate".
https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/m/6adb9caa-b2a7-3a4d-aab7-6510bc68c6dd/ss_arizona-lawmaker-wants-ban-on.html

leekohler2
08-31-2017, 12:03 AM
He's absolutely right.

Abby08
08-31-2017, 12:03 AM
I agree, 100%.

Ethereal
08-31-2017, 12:05 AM
The government should not be allowed to tell people how to dress. This is fairly ridiculous to even suggest.

Abby08
08-31-2017, 12:10 AM
The government should not be allowed to tell people how to dress. This is fairly ridiculous to even suggest.

No, it isn't. People who go to rallies in disguise, aren't going to love their 'opponents'.

If that restriction results in no one getting hurt, they need to do it.

resister
08-31-2017, 12:30 AM
Ya gotta stop doing this Jim, that makes 2 times in one day that I begrudgingly, agree with you! :)

Bethere
08-31-2017, 12:30 AM
No, it isn't. People who go to rallies in disguise, aren't going to love their 'opponents'.

If that restriction results in no one getting hurt, they need to do it.

Very good. Courts balance rights all of the time. Your constitutional rights are no more protected than mine. When there is conflict? The courts are there to balance.

The classic example is the bill of rights seems to guarantee your right to falsely yell "fire" in a dark crowded theatre. But that right does not overrule my expectation of a safe experience at the theatre.

This was decided in 1919 in the case Schenck v. United States. The Court ruled unanimously that the First Amendment, though it protects freedom of speech it doesn't protect dangerous speech.

AeonPax
08-31-2017, 12:32 AM
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There are already states that have enacted such laws - Is It Illegal to Wear Masks at a Protest? It Depends on the Place (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/protests-masks-laws.html)

Common
08-31-2017, 04:27 AM
Easy to write a law, sometimes very difficult to enforce them. Imagine a huge crowd in the thousands with hundreds wearing masks, keven if you could arrest them there would be no place to put them

Newpublius
08-31-2017, 06:19 AM
“If you believe in something enough to demonstrate, if you believe that that’s your thought, you should be proud enough of what you think and what you believe to show your face,”

Anonymous speech has a long history in this country. Common Sense itself was authored but Paine wasn't keen to put his name on it. Why?

In NAACP v Alabama, the State of Alabama had a law which compelled disclosure of contributors to the NAACP by name.

Should the supporters of the NAACP have been 'proud' enough to put their names on a list?

Newpublius
08-31-2017, 06:30 AM
The government should not be allowed to tell people how to dress. This is fairly ridiculous to even suggest.

Relatively easy to argue against this one. The issue is anonymous speech and there are innumerable instances of political speech throughout history where it would be obvious people would be rightfully fearful of government retaliation or otherwise. Naturally one cannot pick and choose who can speak anonymously based on the content of the speech.

Perianne
08-31-2017, 08:34 AM
Easy to write a law, sometimes very difficult to enforce them. Imagine a huge crowd in the thousands with hundreds wearing masks, keven if you could arrest them there would be no place to put them
If they run out of jail space, give them over to Sheriff Joe. He ALWAYS found a place for bad people.

Cannons Front
08-31-2017, 08:40 AM
I do not see this as an anonymous speech issue, these people are using the masks to hide from the law as they are not protesting they are rioting. There are laws in most states that say you can not wear a mask into a bank, same idea here.

Ravens Fan
08-31-2017, 08:44 AM
I do not see this as an anonymous speech issue, these people are using the masks to hide from the law as they are not protesting they are rioting. There are laws in most states that say you can not wear a mask into a bank, same idea here.

That is how I see it too. If you want anonymous speech, there are many ways to do that on the internet, or through the press. The law would not be targeting any specific viewpoint either, no one should be masked at a political protest/riot, IMO.


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DGUtley
08-31-2017, 08:49 AM
I don't see it as a free political speech issue. It's a crowd-control safety issue.

Newpublius
08-31-2017, 09:32 AM
I don't see it as a free political speech issue. It's a crowd-control safety issue.

Its a crowd control issue when it becomes a crowd control issue, you can treat, as an aggravting circumstance, any crime committed while masked. No problem with that, but what you cannot do is to make being masked illegal on the presumption it will be used while committing a crime. That's what an 'unconstitutional prior restraint' is.

Doesn't matter if its Anonymous with those masks, the hooded Klansmen, anonymously authoring Common Sense, or....for that matter, posting anonymously on message boards like these.

There's every reason to believe, in this particular circumstance, that the speakers in question, have every reason to believe that they will be identified and subject to retaliation of some form.

Captain Obvious
08-31-2017, 09:39 AM
Leftist thugs are more likeky to be masking themselves, they have a long history of the practice.

I don't support the idea, it is a slippery slope that the establishment can and will use against the public.

Ransom
08-31-2017, 10:03 AM
Banning.....masks?

Why not start...with arresting those defacing public property even if it is a civil war statue. How about disorderly conduct, blocking traffic, foul language, and ill mannered punks get arrested and jailed. As our current laws dictate. Start fining these basement dwellers.

I was at the Trump Inauguration and witnessed on Ball night women and men having urine and dog feces filled balloons thrown at them. Women in gowns, dressed to the nines splattered with human urine. At the time, I considered them in dire need of an ass whipping. Wouldn't matter if they were masked or not, most of em paid antagonists, I'd feel no remorse should a needed beat down occur.

Perianne
08-31-2017, 10:18 AM
Banning.....masks?

Why not start...with arresting those defacing public property even if it is a civil war statue. How about disorderly conduct, blocking traffic, foul language, and ill mannered punks get arrested and jailed. As our current laws dictate. Start fining these basement dwellers.

I was at the Trump Inauguration and witnessed on Ball night women and men having urine and dog feces filled balloons thrown at them. Women in gowns, dressed to the nines splattered with human urine. At the time, I considered them in dire need of an ass whipping. Wouldn't matter if they were masked or not, most of em paid antagonists, I'd feel no remorse should a needed beat down occur.

How did they get dogs to poopoo in balloons?

Ravens Fan
08-31-2017, 10:44 AM
How did they get dogs to poopoo in balloons?

Lots of treats.


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Ransom
08-31-2017, 10:52 AM
How did they get dogs to poopoo in balloons?

Mix it with human urine, inject into balloon end, tie up and pray it don't leak on way to protest.....would be my guess. Witnessed it first hand. No reporters. No statues needing torn down. Even saw Michael Moore speaking in one of the traffic squares, his henchmen punching and rioting on people. A few of these came up to us....with our Make America Great Again hats and started chanting and hurling insults at the women with us. I allowed this until they took a breath and said "I remember my first beer too" and that sent them into a rage. They threatened violence, spit on us, and used language that would make a sailor blush. I explained not every beer throughout their beer drinking career would effect them so, the giddiness and euphoria wouldn't occur after they got their 'sea legs.'

Mocking them.....sends them into hysterics, one dropped her drawers and told us "this vagina is mine" to which my buddy responded, "looks like many others have owned it lately."

She spit on him. We left laughing.

Ethereal
08-31-2017, 11:46 AM
No, it isn't. People who go to rallies in disguise, aren't going to love their 'opponents'.

If that restriction results in no one getting hurt, they need to do it.
So it would be fair to say you care more about safety than liberty...

But that's not what America is supposed to be about.

Abby08
08-31-2017, 12:20 PM
So it would be fair to say you care more about safety than liberty...

But that's not what America is supposed to be about.

I care about both, actually.

But, if I want to participate in a peaceful rally, I have the right to expect not to be accosted by masked thugs, who are too cowardly to show their faces.

I see nothing wrong with prohibiting the types of clothing that hides your identity....who does that, if they aren't planning on causing some kind of trouble.

In the words of Barney Fife.....you have to, "nip it in the bud."

Abby08
08-31-2017, 12:22 PM
I care about both, actually.

But, if I want to participate in a peaceful rally, I have the right to expect not to be accosted by masked thugs, who are too cowardly to show their faces.

I see nothing wrong with prohibiting the types of clothing that hides your identity....who does that, if they are planning on causing some kind of trouble.

In the words of Barney Fife.....you have to, "nip it in the bud."

PS.....no, it isn't fair, to put words in my mouth..... thank you.

rcfieldz
08-31-2017, 12:40 PM
So if the uh...protesters.. wore helmets and face guards that would be ok? I think masks in public is a tactic used by people who want to try and get away with law breaking.

AZ Jim
08-31-2017, 01:23 PM
So it would be fair to say you care more about safety than liberty...

But that's not what America is supposed to be about.Spoken like a blossoming insurrectionist. Public safety and the rights of the majority must take the priority.

Perianne
08-31-2017, 01:44 PM
Spoken like a blossoming insurrectionist. Public safety and the rights of the majority must take the priority.
Huh? Only the rights of the majority?

DGUtley
08-31-2017, 01:51 PM
Spoken like a blossoming insurrectionist. Public safety and the rights of the majority must take the priority.

I don't know about the priority, but public safety is considered.

Mini Me
09-01-2017, 08:36 AM
If they run out of jail space, give them over to Sheriff Joe. He ALWAYS found a place for bad people.
Except himself!!

leekohler2
09-01-2017, 09:24 AM
Except himself!!

No s***- being a criminal himself, he should have been forced to live in one of his tent prisons in 130 degree heat for the rest of his miserable life. F***ING POS.