Pres.Trump Continues to Confront Putin Like Obama Never Did

[Grokmaster]

Pres.Trump continues to give lie to the Leftmyth of his "collusion" with Russian Pres. Putin, now with the US forcing the evictions of Russian diplomats and trade representatives in San Francisco, New York and Washington, DC.

This, in addition to his previous multiple bombings of Russia's Number One Ally, Syria, his shooting down of their combat aircraft, his opening the European energy market to American companies ( a direct threat to the Russian economy), and going forward with the Patriot Missile System deployment in Russia's backyard, Poland.

Contrast this to former Pres.Obama's video-recorded promise of "more flexibility" to Putin before the 2012 election, after which he (Obama), canceled the Polish missile defense shield, because that's what PUTIN WANTED, DID NOTHING while Putin annexed Crimea, attacked the Ukraine, did nothing despite his Big Line in the Sand speech as Syria ignored him and used chemical weapons anyway, sat by as Hillary Clinton, as his Secretary of State, signed off on Russian obtaining control of 20% of our uranium reserves via Uranium One, while over $100 million Russian, and Russian-related dollars flowed into her family "foundation" (slush fund), and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, as Russia (according to Obama himself, and his Vaunted 17 Intell Services) launched a cyber attack on our election, despite having MONTHS of advanced warning about it.



Now, tell me again, WHO IS PUTIN's PUPPET?????

[Abby08]

Why waste your breath? They know, what they know, right?

I'm so glad, you, who are on the left , are so "tolerant", I'd hate to see/hear, your crap, if you WEREN'T.

An actress recently admitted she was a conservative, she was verbally attacked, she got death threats, she was told, she should have stayed in the closet.

It's the left, not the right, who are insighting the violence and hate. They consider anyone who supports Trump, a nazi and a racist and, they use every form of media to help to help spread their hatred.

Don't look now, leftists, but, your tolerance is showing.

[Green Arrow]

I think the president is a fool. Rather than repair relations with Russia, he's opting to further erode our relationship to preserve his own ego. Rather than act like an adult and ignore the people calling him Putin's puppet, he's choosing to lash out in some childish quest to prove something. Our country and our national security will be weaker for it.

[Captain Obvious]

I think the president is a fool. Rather than repair relations with Russia, he's opting to further erode our relationship to preserve his own ego. Rather than act like an adult and ignore the people calling him Putin's puppet, he's choosing to lash out in some childish quest to prove something. Our country and our national security will be weaker for it.

I agree on your comment about Trump but I don't think Russia is or will ever be a good ally. They see us as their number one rival that they need to discredit.

All of this election stuff was their successful attempt to discredit and embarrass the electoral process here.

[Green Arrow]

I agree on your comment about Trump but I don't think Russia is or will ever be a good ally. They see us as their number one rival that they need to discredit.

All of this election stuff was their successful attempt to discredit and embarrass the electoral process here.

Right, they do see us as their number one rival. Why is that?

[Captain Obvious]

Right, they do see us as their number one rival. Why is that?

Contributory negligence, all started with the cold war.

[Green Arrow]

Contributory negligence, all started with the cold war.

We had a period of friendship at the end of the Cold War and in the brief years following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[resister]

Here is Putins take on it! lol

1982119822

[Grokmaster]

I think the president is a fool. Rather than repair relations with Russia, he's opting to further erode our relationship to preserve his own ego. Rather than act like an adult and ignore the people calling him Putin's puppet, he's choosing to lash out in some childish quest to prove something. Our country and our national security will be weaker for it.
And, the minute he did as you suggest the left would be screaming, "SEE!! 'COLLUSION' !!!!" Pres.Trump needs to confront Putin, who was allowed to run amok under Obama. How much "worse" is Putin, now? Syria sure as hell STOPPED with the chemical weapons, didn't they?

I completely disagree with you, in that I believe improved relations ARE COMING, but from a position of STRENGTH on the part of the US, as opposed to the "more flexible" bendover years of the Obama Adm.

[Grokmaster]

Right, they do see us as their number one rival. Why is that?

The energy market is their entire economy.

Once again...the point of the thread- WHO IS/WAS PUTIN'S PUPPET?

[resister]

And, the minute he did as you suggest the left would be screaming, "SEE!! 'COLLUSION' !!!!" Pres.Trump needs to confront Putin, who was allowed to run amok under Obama. How much "worse" is Putin, now? Syria sure as hell STOPPED with the chemical weapons, didn't they?

I completely disagree with you, in that I believe improved relations ARE COMING, but from a position of STRENGTH on the part of the US, as opposed to the "more flexible" bendover years of the Obama Adm.
Nothing Trump does will ever satisfy his detractors.

[Captain Obvious]

We had a period of friendship at the end of the Cold War and in the brief years following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Good point, glad you brought that up.

Weak moment for the ex-Soviets, they were under an economic barrel. After the coup and the break-up of the Soviet Union they were forced to play nice.

Once they discovered massive energy reserves the old Soviet era mentality re-grew.

So when you look at it, we were capable of and willing to play nice. That ended when Russia no longer needed an economic partner.

[Grokmaster]

Nothing Trump does will ever satisfy his detractors.

Exactly. I list ALL THE "ACCOMODATIONS" Obama gave Putin, and it's Trump who is "Putin's Puppet" in leftbubble. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Abby08]

The energy market is their entire economy.

Once again...the point of the thread- WHO IS/WAS PUTIN'S PUPPET?

Obama..... very clearly.

[Ethereal]

Trump's confrontation with Russia is foolish and dangerous and fueled by a desire to prove he's not Putin's puppet. I cannot think of a worse reason to do something.

[Ethereal]

I agree on your comment about Trump but I don't think Russia is or will ever be a good ally. They see us as their number one rival that they need to discredit.

Russia is desperate to partner with us in helping to mold the international order through cooperation. The arrogant US political class simply refuses to countenance a relationship with any country where they (the US political class) are not the unquestioned masters.


All of this election stuff was their successful attempt to discredit and embarrass the electoral process here.

You actually believe that stuff?

[Abby08]

Trump's confrontation with Russia is foolish and dangerous and fueled by a desire to prove he's not Putin's puppet. I cannot think of a worse reason to do something.

He should bow down to him and kiss his ass, like Obama did?

[silvereyes]

Why waste your breath? They know, what they know, right?

I'm so glad, you, who are on the left , are so "tolerant", I'd hate to see/hear, your crap, if you WEREN'T.

An actress recently admitted she was a conservative, she was verbally attacked, she got death threats, she was told, she should have stayed in the closet.

It's the left, not the right, who are insighting the violence and hate. They consider anyone who supports Trump, a nazi and a racist and, they use every form of media to help to help spread their hatred.

Don't look now, leftists, but, your tolerance is showing.

Yah, and your entire post is full of anger and angst towards all liberals. So, watch that pointy finger....it has siblings pointing back at you.

[Ethereal]

Contributory negligence, all started with the cold war.
The cold war ended in the early 1990's. The Soviet Union has been dissolved for almost three decades. Since then, the US has slowly expanded NATO towards Russia's borders, which is a violation of the spirit of the agreement that led to the end of the cold war. Only a few years ago, the CIA helped to overthrow a Russian-friendly, democratically elected government on Russia's border.

[silvereyes]

Right, they do see us as their number one rival. Why is that?

Jealousy?

[Ethereal]

He should bow down to him and kiss his ass, like Obama did?

You realize there are more choices than confrontation and ass kissing right? There IS a reasonable middle ground we can occupy. But that would require Americans to be honest about how aggressive and belligerent the US government has been towards Russia and other countries, which doesn't seem very likely.

[Ethereal]

And, the minute he did as you suggest the left would be screaming, "SEE!! 'COLLUSION' !!!!" Pres.Trump needs to confront Putin, who was allowed to run amok under Obama. How much "worse" is Putin, now? Syria sure as hell STOPPED with the chemical weapons, didn't they?

How was Putin allowed to run amok under Obama? And there is absolutely no concrete evidence implicating the Assad government in the use of chemical weapons, let alone Russia's involvement in such.


I completely disagree with you, in that I believe improved relations ARE COMING, but from a position of STRENGTH on the part of the US, as opposed to the "more flexible" bendover years of the Obama Adm.

When are they are coming? Because all I can see is further deterioration in our relationship.

[Captain Obvious]

You actually believe that stuff?

Yup, they've been doing it for decades, just like us.

[Ethereal]

The energy market is their entire economy.

Once again...the point of the thread- WHO IS/WAS PUTIN'S PUPPET?

Neither of them are/were Putin's puppet, obviously.

[silvereyes]

Nothing Trump does will ever satisfy his detractors.

Nothing Trump does will ever disillusion his droolers.

See how that thar works? Pretty cool, huh?

[Abby08]

Yah, and your entire post is full of anger and angst towards all liberals. So, watch that pointy finger....it has siblings pointing back at you.

I have good reason to lump all liberals into the same category. A person can't even mention Trump's name, without being called a racist or, a nazi. If a person agrees with Trump, they get death threats.

You have no idea, as to my state of mind, so, labeling me as, " full of hate" is yet another trait of the liberal ..... give a label of, racist, nazi and, hater, to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

[Ethereal]

Yup, they've been doing it for decades, just like us.
And how, exactly, did Russia do this in the 2016 elections? Because I was under the impression that US politicians didn't need any help in discrediting and embarrassing the electoral process. They do that just fine all on their own.

[Captain Obvious]

And how, exactly, did Russia do this in the 2016 elections? Because I was under the impression that US politicians didn't need any help in discrediting and embarrassing the electoral process. They do that just fine all on their own.

By giving the illusion that the elections were corrupt.

Perception is reality, a large portion of our voting population believes the elections were fixed or at least manipulated. Mission accomplished.

[resister]

Nothing Trump does will ever disillusion his droolers.

See how that thar works? Pretty cool, huh?Give credit when credit is due, for better or worse. I am disappointed that health care is not yet fixed. With my wifes recent hospital stay, it is just one headache after another with insurance crap.

The system is badly broken when insurance coverage causes them to send people home early after surgery, only to have to go back and accrue even more debt.

[Crepitus]

Pres.Trump continues to give lie to the Leftmyth of his "collusion" with Russian Pres. Putin, now with the US forcing the evictions of Russian diplomats and trade representatives in San Francisco, New York and Washington, DC.

This, in addition to his previous multiple bombings of Russia's Number One Ally, Syria, his shooting down of their combat aircraft, his opening the European energy market to American companies ( a direct threat to the Russian economy), and going forward with the Patriot Missile System deployment in Russia's backyard, Poland.

Contrast this to former Pres.Obama's video-recorded promise of "more flexibility" to Putin before the 2012 election, after which he (Obama), canceled the Polish missile defense shield, because that's what PUTIN WANTED, DID NOTHING while Putin annexed Crimea, attacked the Ukraine, did nothing despite his Big Line in the Sand speech as Syria ignored him and used chemical weapons anyway, sat by as Hillary Clinton, as his Secretary of State, signed off on Russian obtaining control of 20% of our uranium reserves via Uranium One, while over $100 million Russian, and Russian-related dollars flowed into her family "foundation" (slush fund), and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, as Russia (according to Obama himself, and his Vaunted 17 Intell Services) launched a cyber attack on our election, despite having MONTHS of advanced warning about it.



Now, tell me again, WHO IS PUTIN's PUPPET?????




Yeah, I'm thinking Putin must be pretty disappointed in his little.progeny.

Wonder when the wikileaks document dump will come?

[Ethereal]

By giving the illusion that the elections were corrupt.

But how did they do that? And was it really an illusion? Haven't Americans perceived the electoral process as corrupt for decades?


Perception is reality, a large portion of our voting population believes the elections were fixed or at least manipulated. Mission accomplished.

Well, I question what proof, if any, exists that would implicate Russia in the creation of that perception.

[silvereyes]

I have good reason to lump all liberals into the same category. A person can't even mention Trump's name, without being called a racist or, a nazi. If a person agrees with Trump, they get death threats.

You have no idea, as to my state of mind, so, labeling me as, " full of hate" is yet another trait of the liberal ..... give a label of, racist, nazi and, hater, to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Lol. Point out where I said you were full of hate.

And, yes, you do sound angry. Very.
And, no, you don't have reason to broad brush all liberals. First you would have to all liberals in order to cling to that. Secondly, you'd have to find evidence supporting that absurd comment.

[Ethereal]

Yeah, I'm thinking Putin must be pretty disappointed in his little.progeny.

Wonder when the wikileaks document dump will come?

It won't come because there is nothing there. Obama was not Putin's puppet and neither is Trump. Contrary to what many Americans would like to believe, Putin is not an omnipotent super villain who controls world affairs from deep within his doomsday bunker.

[silvereyes]

Give credit when credit is due, for better or worse. I am disappointed that health care is not yet fixed. With my wifes recent hospital stay, it is just one headache after another with insurance crap.

The system is badly broken when insurance coverage causes them to send people home early after surgery, only to have to go back and accrue even more debt.

Okkkkk, what? Are you using those things to criticize Trump?

[Captain Obvious]

But how did they do that? And was it really an illusion? Haven't Americans perceived the electoral process as corrupt for decades?

They hacked databases, that's all that's known at this point that has any substance. You know this also.

The US's electoral process corruption to whatever degree is irrelevant to the Russian's goal of destabilizing our processes.

Well, I question what proof, if any, exists that would implicate Russia in the creation of that perception.

See above

[Crepitus]

It won't come because there is nothing there. Obama was not Putin's puppet and neither is Trump. Contrary to what many Americans would like to believe, Putin is not an omnipotent super villain who controls world affairs from deep within his doomsday bunker.

Better it hits a bit before midterms.

[silvereyes]

It won't come because there is nothing there. Obama was not Putin's puppet and neither is Trump. Contrary to what many Americans would like to believe, Putin is not an omnipotent super villain who controls world affairs from deep within his doomsday bunker.

Wait. We aren't in Oz and he's not hiding behind a green curtain? Well, blimey!

[Green Arrow]

And, the minute he did as you suggest the left would be screaming, "SEE!! 'COLLUSION' !!!!"

Mature adults would say "fuck off" and do what needs to be done regardless.


Pres.Trump needs to confront Putin, who was allowed to run amok under Obama. How much "worse" is Putin, now? Syria sure as hell STOPPED with the chemical weapons, didn't they?
What does President Trump need to confront Putin over?

I completely disagree with you, in that I believe improved relations ARE COMING, but from a position of STRENGTH on the part of the US, as opposed to the "more flexible" bendover years of the Obama Adm.
What the president is doing is not putting us in a position of strength, it's putting us in a position of weakness.

[resister]

Okkkkk, what? Are you using those things to criticize Trump?
I said I am disappointed at the current failure to fix health care, right?

[Green Arrow]

Good point, glad you brought that up.

Weak moment for the ex-Soviets, they were under an economic barrel. After the coup and the break-up of the Soviet Union they were forced to play nice.

Once they discovered massive energy reserves the old Soviet era mentality re-grew.

So when you look at it, we were capable of and willing to play nice. That ended when Russia no longer needed an economic partner.

So, that's all it is? We helped them end the Soviet Union without too much catastrophe, we were good partners, but they just decided out of nowhere to hate us again for something that we hadn't done in over a decade?

I don't quite believe that. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

[silvereyes]

I said I am disappointed at the current failure to fix health care, right?

Sorta. Thats your only gripe?

[Green Arrow]

Obama..... very clearly.
Please. Obama damaged relations with Russia more than any president before him. Trump seems determined to finish the job.

I don't think Putin has ever had a "puppet" in the presidency.

[Ethereal]

They hacked databases, that's all that's known at this point that has any substance. You know this also.

That isn't "known". It's merely an unsubstantiated allegation being floated around by organizations lacking any credibility. Crowdstrike, for example, is a private firm that was hired by the DNC, and their forensic evidence implicating Russia in a "hack" of the DNC's servers has never been examined or verified by any outside party. And the intelligence report, the one cited endlessly by Democrats and other establishment swamp creatures, was headed up by James Clapper, who is a proven LIAR. The simple fact of the matter is that there simply no way to attribute any of these leaks/hacks to the Russian government. In fact, IF these "hacks" really were initiated by Russian government actors, there is probably no way we would know they did it, since they are extremely sophisticated in their methodology. It is actually quite easy to obfuscate the origin and source of a hack, especially for a state actor like Russia.


The US's electoral process corruption to whatever degree is irrelevant to the Russian's goal of destabilizing our processes.

Why would Russia even want to do that? What benefit do they derive from it?

[Ethereal]

Better it hits a bit before midterms.

It isn't going to hit, ever. You have been duped by liars and propagandists.

[resister]

Sorta. Thats your only gripe?
Off the top of my head? Pretty much. I'm sure if I sat down and looked at everything, I would be less than thrilled in certain areas.

[Captain Obvious]

That isn't "known". It's merely an unsubstantiated allegation being floated around by organizations lacking any credibility. Crowdstrike, for example, is a private firm that was hired by the DNC, and their forensic evidence implicating Russia in a "hack" of the DNC's servers has never been examined or verified by any outside party. And the intelligence report, the one cited endlessly by Democrats and other establishment swamp creatures, was headed up by James Clapper, who is a proven LIAR. The simple fact of the matter is that there simply no way to attribute any of these leaks/hacks to the Russian government. In fact, IF these "hacks" really were initiated by Russian government actors, there is probably no way we would know they did it, since they are extremely sophisticated in their methodology. It is actually quite easy to obfuscate the origin and source of a hack, especially for a state actor like Russia.

Of course it's a known, the Russians hacked or attempted to hack both major parties databases.


What would Russia even want to do that? What benefit do they derive from it?

Now you're just playing dumb.

[Ethereal]

Of course it's a known, the Russians hacked or attempted to hack both major parties databases.

Okay, where is your proof?

A report done by a private firm that won't even release their evidence to the public? A private firm that has already been proven to be incompetent/dishonest? A private firm that is headed up by a virulently anti-Russian Ukrainian?


Now you're just playing dumb.

No, I'm not.

What benefit does Russia derive from giving the appearance of manipulation? And why would they take such a huge risk in order to create that appearance?

[Abby08]

Lol. Point out where I said you were full of hate.

And, yes, you do sound angry. Very.
And, no, you don't have reason to broad brush all liberals. First you would have to all liberals in order to cling to that. Secondly, you'd have to find evidence supporting that absurd comment.

You're right, you said anger, not hate.

No, not sitting here full of 'anger' but, it does anger me, that people are being labeled as racists and Nazis, just for whom they support.

Maybe, just maybe, not all liberals fall into that category, but, every day, there's something new and, it's amazing how the media doesn't make a federal case of it, like they did when bad things were said about Obama and his supporters.

[Captain Obvious]

Okay, where is your proof?

A report done by a private firm that won't even release their evidence to the public? A private firm that has already been proven to be incompetent/dishonest? A private firm that is headed up by a virulently anti-Russian Ukrainian?



No, I'm not.

What benefit does Russia derive from giving the appearance of manipulation? And why would they take such a huge risk in order to create that appearance?

I'm not going on a campaign to prove to you something you're not going to believe regardless because you have a chip on your shoulder with the US and our past and present habit of not playing nice.

None of that belief exempts the Russians from having their own equally self-interested agenda.

If you don't want to believe something because you think everyone but the US is justified in dirty tactics, knock yourself out. I choose to make my own determinations based on information available.

[Ethereal]

I'm not going on a campaign to prove to you something you're not going to believe regardless because you have a chip on your shoulder with the US and our past and present habit of not playing nice.

In other words, you have no proof and are just taking the word of some security firm that has zero credibility.

And if you keep accusing me of things like "playing dumb" and having a "chip on my shoulder", this is going to get impolite pretty fast. Disagree with and challenge my POSITION as much as you want, but do not make comments about me personally.


None of that belief exempts the Russians from having their own equally self-interested agenda.

If you don't want to believe something because you think everyone but the US is justified in dirty tactics, knock yourself out. I choose to make my own determinations based on information available.

Except the available information is scant and comes from sources with an obvious agenda.

[Captain Obvious]

In other words, you have no proof and are just taking the word of some security firm that has zero credibility.

And if you keep accusing me of things like "playing dumb" and having a "chip on my shoulder", this is going to get impolite pretty fast. Disagree with and challenge my POSITION as much as you want, but do not make comments about me personally.



Except the available information is scant and comes from sources with an obvious agenda.

Everything has an agenda.

You want to make this an argument. If you were more open-minded I would gladly engage but you're stubborn and that's fine. I just choose not to argue this issue. I believe what I believe based on the information available and you disagree. Cool.

[Bethere]

In other words, you have no proof and are just taking the word of some security firm that has zero credibility.

And if you keep accusing me of things like "playing dumb" and having a "chip on my shoulder", this is going to get impolite pretty fast. Disagree with and challenge my POSITION as much as you want, but do not make comments about me personally.



Except the available information is scant and comes from sources with an obvious agenda.

I, for one, don't think that you are playing dumb.

[resister]

I, for one, don't think that you are playing dumb.
I thought he was on ignore?

[Ethereal]

Everything has an agenda.

You want to make this an argument. If you were more open-minded I would gladly engage but you're stubborn and that's fine. I just choose not to argue this issue. I believe what I believe based on the information available and you disagree. Cool.
I want you to defend your position using logic and evidence. It seems pretty obvious that you cannot.

One thing I've noticed about forums like these is that people love me when I'm on their side, but turn into jerks the second I disagree with them.

Thus far, I have only challenged your position, whereas you have made snarky comments about me as a person.

So if anyone is being stubborn and close-minded, it's you.

[Ethereal]

I, for one, don't think that you are playing dumb.
Nobody cares what you think.

[Bethere]

I want you to defend your position using logic and evidence. It seems pretty obvious that you cannot.

One thing I've noticed about forums like these is that people love me when I'm on their side, but turn into jerks the second I disagree with them.

Thus far, I have only challenged your position, whereas you have made snarky comments about me as a person.

So if anyone is being stubborn and close-minded, it's you.

Trouble in paradise?

[Ethereal]

Trouble in paradise?
Like I've always said, I am an individual who thinks for himself and stands on principle. Unlike you and the rest of the liberal clique, I do not succumb to groupthink and peer pressure.

[Captain Obvious]

I want you to defend your position using logic and evidence. It seems pretty obvious that you cannot.

One thing I've noticed about forums like these is that people love me when I'm on their side, but turn into jerks the second I disagree with them.

Thus far, I have only challenged your position, whereas you have made snarky comments about me as a person.

So if anyone is being stubborn and close-minded, it's you.

Feel better now?

Get a mirror also, you tend to pick fights and become stubbornly argumentative to no end. I just choose not to engage in that.

[Captain Obvious]

Like I've always said, I am an individual who thinks for himself and stands on principle. Unlike you and the rest of the liberal clique, I do not succumb to groupthink and peer pressure.

So are you implying, snarkily also, that I succumb to groupthink and peer pressure?

Get that mirror yet?

I'm the last person on this forum that does that for what it's worth.

[Ethereal]

Feel better now?

Get a mirror also, you tend to pick fights and become stubbornly argumentative to no end. I just choose not to engage in that.

How did I pick a fight? By disagreeing with you? By asking you to produce evidence in support of your position? What, exactly, did I do that warranted your commentary on my personality and my mindset?

[Ethereal]

So are you implying, snarkily also, that I succumb to groupthink and peer pressure?

Uh, no. I'm stating expressly that Bethere does.


Get that mirror yet?

Why would I need a mirror?

[Captain Obvious]

How did I pick a fight? By disagreeing with you? By asking you to produce evidence in support of your position? What, exactly, did I do that warranted your commentary on my personality and my mindset?

You keep badgering the issue.

Like you're doing now.

I've known you long enough, this is what you do and for the most part I'm ok with it. I usually just drop the issue once you've made 4 or 5 badgering points. Not sure why I haven't at this point.

And I'm not being bitchy or pissy about it. We disagree on this issue and issues aren't absolute. You can have an opinion, so can I.

[Ethereal]

You keep badgering the issue.

Like you're doing now.

I've known you long enough, this is what you do and for the most part I'm ok with it. I usually just drop the issue once you've made 4 or 5 badgering points. Not sure why I haven't at this point.

And I'm not being $#@!y or pissy about it. We disagree on this issue and issues aren't absolute. You can have an opinion, so can I.
How is asking you to produce evidence in support of your opinion badgering you? Did you ever stop to consider the possibility that I might be right?

[Grokmaster]

Trump's confrontation with Russia is foolish and dangerous and fueled by a desire to prove he's not Putin's puppet. I cannot think of a worse reason to do something.
Or not. I believe that it is his genuine intention to re-establish the United States as a purveyor of STRENGTH, instead of weakness, in ALL THINGS foreign policy related.

I fully support that, with the end goal of establishing stable relationships w/Russia etal, but not from our knees, as we have been doing for at least eight years, IMHO.

[Captain Obvious]

How is asking you to produce evidence in support of your opinion badgering you? Did you ever stop to consider the possibility that I might be right?

Of course you might be right, that's the great thing about opinions.

I might be right also, and we both could be wrong.

I know what evidence is out there, so do you. I formed my opinion based on the information available, likelihood and my belief basis, just like you did.

You take the position that you are 100% correct and people who disagree with you have to win a SCOTUS judgment in order to have credibility. I'll pass.

[Grokmaster]

Neither of them are/were Putin's puppet, obviously.

Obama was, unquestionably, FAR MORE ACCOMODATING to Putin's wishes, as the FACTS show.

[Captain Obvious]

Sorry Grokmaster , we totally hijacked your thread.

I'll bail now.

[Grokmaster]

And how, exactly, did Russia do this in the 2016 elections? Because I was under the impression that US politicians didn't need any help in discrediting and embarrassing the electoral process. They do that just fine all on their own.
I do not believe the Russians had any effect on the election, nor am I yet convinced that they even hacked the DNC server, either. I think that is all a crock of crap, madeup by the Lie-o-crats to damage the Trump Adm. before they were even seated....

[Grokmaster]

By giving the illusion that the elections were corrupt.

Perception is reality, a large portion of our voting population believes the elections were fixed or at least manipulated. Mission accomplished.
No illusion. The leaked DNC emails of primary fraud and open collusion with the so-called "mainstream media" prove that premise correct.

[Captain Obvious]

I do not believe the Russians had any effect on the election, nor am I yet convinced that they even hacked the DNC server, either. I think that is all a crock of crap, madeup by the Lie-o-crats to damage the Trump Adm. before they were even seated....

Alright I'll bail after this one point.

I don't believe that they even marginally influenced the election. The point of their "success" is that they caused the political process to be highly suspect by many.

Perception is reality, their goal was not to influence the election but cause people to lose faith in the process and they succeeded.

[Ethereal]

Of course you might be right, that's the great thing about opinions.

I might be right also, and we both could be wrong.

I know what evidence is out there, so do you. I formed my opinion based on the information available, likelihood and my belief basis, just like you did.

You take the position that you are 100% correct and people who disagree with you have to win a SCOTUS judgment in order to have credibility. I'll pass.

Okay, so asking you for evidence is "badgering" and that makes it okay for you to attack me personally. Thanks for helping me to understand.

[Grokmaster]

Yeah, I'm thinking Putin must be pretty disappointed in his little.progeny.

Wonder when the wikileaks document dump will come?

I'm sure Putin was/is QUITE HAPPY with the deep throating Obama gave him. "More flexible" , indeed.
Still clinging to the Myth, and ignoring the OBVIOUS OBAMA/CLINTON "COLLUSION" with Russia, we see.


The "wiki doc dump" already came; it was the one that exposed the Fraud-o-crats and Fake News media for what they both are.

[Captain Obvious]

Okay, so asking you for evidence is "badgering" and that makes it okay for you to attack me personally. Thanks for helping me to understand.

I live to serve

;)

[Ethereal]

Obama was, unquestionably, FAR MORE ACCOMODATING to Putin's wishes, as the FACTS show.
Even if that were true, it wouldn't make Obama Putin's puppet.

[Grokmaster]

Even if that were true, it wouldn't make Obama Putin's puppet.

Close enough for rock n' roll. Obama gave Putin EVERYTHING HE WANTED.

[Crepitus]

I'm sure Putin was/is QUITE HAPPY with the deep throating Obama gave him. "More flexible" , indeed.
Still clinging to the Myth, and ignoring the OBVIOUS OBAMA/CLINTON "COLLUSION" with Russia, we see.


The "wiki doc dump" already came; it was the one that exposed the Fraud-o-crats and Fake News media for what they both are.

Wow are you confused.

[Grokmaster]

Wow are you confused.


Please specify WHICH FACT I LISTED IS NOT SO....

Once again...stating the PROVEN, EMBARASSING (to you and yours) FACTS, = "I'm confused", in your leftgoofyworld view.

Ever get tired of your always wrong, one note piano?

[Grokmaster]

Sorry @Grokmaster (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=339) , we totally hijacked your thread.

I'll bail now.


I'll survive it, and get it back on track... :grin:

[The Xl]

Trump is overcompensating, he's doing this to look tough on Russia as a reaction to the unbelievably ridiculous and unproven assertions that he's a puppet of Putin.

[Grokmaster]

Trump is overcompensating, he's doing this to look tough on Russia as a reaction to the unbelievably ridiculous and unproven assertions that he's a puppet of Putin.

Or not. I do not consider a SINGLE action he has taken as excessive toward Russia at all.

[Ethereal]

Close enough for rock n' roll. Obama gave Putin EVERYTHING HE WANTED.
Really? So Putin wanted the Russian-friendly Ukrainian government to be overthrown and replaced by a pro-western puppet regime? Putin wanted Albania and Croatia to join NATO? Putin wanted his ally in Syria to be nearly overthrown in a western-backed proxy war? Wow... Putin must be pretty stupid then.

[Captain Obvious]

Trump is overcompensating, he's doing this to look tough on Russia as a reaction to the unbelievably ridiculous and unproven assertions that he's a puppet of Putin.

Agreed

[Hal Jordan]

Discuss the topic, not other members.

[Green Arrow]

Please specify WHICH FACT I LISTED IS NOT SO....

Once again...stating the PROVEN, EMBARASSING (to you and yours) FACTS, = "I'm confused", in your leftgoofyworld view.

Ever get tired of your always wrong, one note piano?

Speaking of facts, why did you ignore my question?

[silvereyes]

You're right, you said anger, not hate.

No, not sitting here full of 'anger' but, it does anger me, that people are being labeled as racists and Nazis, just for whom they support.

Maybe, just maybe, not all liberals fall into that category, but, every day, there's something new and, it's amazing how the media doesn't make a federal case of it, like they did when bad things were said about Obama and his supporters.

Cool. I was called MANY hateful things simply because I refused to let people crap all over the Obama family. Care to take a guess at some of them? You don't remember the nasty shit said about THEM? Nazi is a whole lot nicer than some of what I was called.

[silvereyes]

Or not. I do not consider a SINGLE action he has taken as excessive toward Russia at all.

Of course you don't. You're too busy lighting candles for your Great Orange Hero.

[Abby08]

Cool. I was called MANY hateful things simply because I refused to let people crap all over the Obama family. Care to take a guess at some of them? You don't remember the nasty $#@! said about THEM? Nazi is a whole lot nicer than some of what I was called.

Oh, I can imagine what those things were. None of them came from me, I wasn't here. Even if I was, I don't call people names like that.

With most people, it's a, "tit for tat" thing....you did it to me, so I'm doing it to you.

[Abby08]

Of course you don't. You're too busy lighting candles for your Great Orange Hero.

You see, people automatically get on the defensive when you say things like this to them.

[Archer0915]

Pres.Trump continues to give lie to the Leftmyth of his "collusion" with Russian Pres. Putin, now with the US forcing the evictions of Russian diplomats and trade representatives in San Francisco, New York and Washington, DC.

This, in addition to his previous multiple bombings of Russia's Number One Ally, Syria, his shooting down of their combat aircraft, his opening the European energy market to American companies ( a direct threat to the Russian economy), and going forward with the Patriot Missile System deployment in Russia's backyard, Poland.

Contrast this to former Pres.Obama's video-recorded promise of "more flexibility" to Putin before the 2012 election, after which he (Obama), canceled the Polish missile defense shield, because that's what PUTIN WANTED, DID NOTHING while Putin annexed Crimea, attacked the Ukraine, did nothing despite his Big Line in the Sand speech as Syria ignored him and used chemical weapons anyway, sat by as Hillary Clinton, as his Secretary of State, signed off on Russian obtaining control of 20% of our uranium reserves via Uranium One, while over $100 million Russian, and Russian-related dollars flowed into her family "foundation" (slush fund), and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, as Russia (according to Obama himself, and his Vaunted 17 Intell Services) launched a cyber attack on our election, despite having MONTHS of advanced warning about it.



Now, tell me again, WHO IS PUTIN's PUPPET?????




Trump was on the right track and he has not blown it yet. This is actually decent brinkmanship to show Putin and the Leftists that he is not swayed by fear of Russia and he is no puppet. Green Arrow, I want to agree with you but this is not only on Trump, it is on the Trump haters and the Left. He wanted better relations with Russia but he has been pushed by a congress and the left who seem to want WAR.

[Grokmaster]

Really? So Putin wanted the Russian-friendly Ukrainian government to be overthrown and replaced by a pro-western puppet regime? Putin wanted Albania and Croatia to join NATO? Putin wanted his ally in Syria to be nearly overthrown in a western-backed proxy war? Wow... Putin must be pretty stupid then.
The government of the Ukraine most certainly is NOT "Russia friendly", which is why the Ukrainians who aided Russia in the recent (and current) unpleasantness, are referred to as " separatists"...

Don't know where you came up with the notion that the government of the Ukraine and Russia are on friendly terms...


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-putin/putin-warns-u-s-not-to-supply-ukraine-with-defensive-weapons-idUSKCN1BG16X

[Grokmaster]

Of course you don't. You're too busy lighting candles for your Great Orange Hero.

Either he's " Putin's Puppet" or he's being "too excessive in his actions confronting Russia".

Talk in circles much?

Please, by all means, explain what, EXACTLY , he is doing wrong as far as standing up to Putin.

[Grokmaster]

Agreed
Such as what is "overcompensating", SPECIFICALLY?

[Grokmaster]

Please. Obama damaged relations with Russia more than any president before him. Trump seems determined to finish the job.

I don't think Putin has ever had a "puppet" in the presidency.
How did Obama bending over backwards to accommodate Putin worsen relations with Russia, other than to put the US in a position of weakness?

[Grokmaster]

Mature adults would say "$#@! off" and do what needs to be done regardless.


What does President Trump need to confront Putin over?

What the president is doing is not putting us in a position of strength, it's putting us in a position of weakness.
His aggression against sovereign nations, such as the Ukraine.
Placing a Patriot Missile battery (that Obama RENEGED ON) in Eastern Europe, is "putting us in a position of weakness", how, exactly?

Immediately responding to a chemical weapons attack by Russia's ally is "putting us in a position of weakness", how, exactly?

(As opposed to Pres.Mommy Pants' "line in the sand").

Opening the European energy market to US companies is "putting us in a position of weakness", how, exactly?

[Perianne]

...Pres.Mommy Pants...

lol, you are funny, Grokmaster!

[Grokmaster]

lol, you are funny, Grokmaster!

I know, but looks aren't everything...pudoom/tscch!! :grin: