The Left is No Longer Liberal.

[Chris]

Again, group identity politics: The regressive left, or regressive liberalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70

[pragmatic]

The labels themselves (liberal and conservative) are so distorted and used as pejoratives the terms have become somewhat meaningless.

Each side paints/defines the opposition with as unflattering adjectives as they can come up with. Usually in broad brush stereotypical fashion.


People in reality tend to have complex views across a wide range of issues. And seldom fit nicely into any single category.

[Chris]

The labels themselves (liberal and conservative) are so distorted and used as pejoratives the terms have become somewhat meaningless.

Each side paints/defines the opposition with as unflattering adjectives as they can come up with. Usually in broad brush stereotypical fashion.


People in reality tend to have complex views across a wide range of issues. And seldom fit nicely into any single category.

True but the speaker in the video considers himself a liberal.

[Standing Wolf]

The labels themselves (liberal and conservative) are so distorted and used as pejoratives the terms have become somewhat meaningless.

Each side paints/defines the opposition with as unflattering adjectives as they can come up with. Usually in broad brush stereotypical fashion.


People in reality tend to have complex views across a wide range of issues. And seldom fit nicely into any single category.

The kind of post I would like to be able to give "Thanks" for more than once. What I've been saying for years, so of course it's exactly right. :grin:

[Chris]

The kind of post I would like to be able to give "Thanks" for more than once. What I've been saying for years, so of course it's exactly right. :grin:

All the while you contradictorily stereotype with the worst of them conservatives and self-professed, so-called libertarians. No one lives up to highly regarded images of themselves.

Would that we got back to the topic, namely, how group identity politics has made the left no longer the left.

[Chris]

The video obviously does lump all liberals together, but distinguishes between group identity liberals and, in the tradition of New Deal liberalism, Better Deal liberalism where Democrats fight for the little guy, the working man.

[Captain Obvious]

Chris - you know I don't watch these videos, they drive me batshit but for what it's worth, I've been saying this for a while - the premise of the video.

[AeonPax]

`
`
The correct way to state that is "The democrats are no longer liberal."

[Chris]

`
`
The correct way to state that is "The democrats are no longer liberal."

Right, but it's not just Dems, even though I cited New and Better Deals.

[Mister D]

I don't think most or our members have complex views. They tend to be simplistic and predictable. Sometimes there really isn't any thought behind them at all just a vague sentiment.

[Standing Wolf]

All the while you contradictorily stereotype with the worst of them conservatives and self-professed, so-called libertarians. No one lives up to highly regarded images of themselves.

Gee whiz, Chris - petty, juvenile, bad faith posting, out of context, borderline stalkerish and the re-expression of a charge thoroughly disproved in another thread that's obviously got you all in a snit. Impressive rhetorical skills, even for you.


Would that we got back to the topic, namely, how group identity politics has made the left no longer the left.

Oh, so we can go off-topic when you want to snipe at me and reiterate an accusation that you've already been shown is baseless and stupid, but nobody else can? Gotcha, Chief.

Pragmatic's comments were spot-on and relevant, whether or not you want to think so.

[Chris]

Gee whiz, Chris - petty, juvenile, bad faith posting, out of context, borderline stalkerish and the re-expression of a charge thoroughly disproved in another thread that's obviously got you all in a snit. Impressive rhetorical skills, even for you.



Oh, so we can go off-topic when you want to snipe at me and reiterate an accusation that you've already been shown is baseless and stupid, but nobody else can? Gotcha, Chief.

Pragmatic's comments were spot-on and relevant, whether or not you want to think so.



Gee whiz, Wolf- petty, juvenile, bad faith posting, out of context, borderline stalkerish and the re-expression of a charge thoroughly disproved in another thread that's obviously got you all in a snit. Impressive rhetorical skills, even for you.


Pragmatic's and yours were the typical distractions from the topic about definitions and labels. They criticized stereotyping when the topic distinguishes among liberals.

But, right, you know better than me what I intended the topic to be.

Get over yourself, wolf.

[Trish]

I'm not sure how I feel about this celebrity personality and his views. He makes some good points but it's hard to hear his message with all the other noise surrounding it. On the other hand, I don't know what a true liberal or conservative is anymore. I think these terms have been bastardized. We want to hold onto them but they're no longer relevant to who we are anymore.

[Chris]

I'm not sure how I feel about this celebrity personality and his views. He makes some good points but it's hard to hear his message with all the other noise surrounding it. On the other hand, I don't know what a true liberal or conservative is anymore. I think these terms have been bastardized. We want to hold onto them but they're no longer relevant to who we are anymore.

He's a liberal. There are many forms of liberalism--classical, socialist, progressive, and even each of those bifurcate in myriad ways.

His message is that one type of liberalism, the type that veers away from principles and into group identity, is not the type of liberalism liberals should accept.

As an analogy I think there are many kinds of conservatism but one type, the alt-right, which in many ways plays the same group identity game, is not the type conservatism should accept.

[Chris]

Do you liberals really think this is the only liberal against group identity politics?

Debating the liberal case against identity politics (https://www.vox.com/2017/8/15/16089286/identity-politics-liberalism-republicans-democrats-trump-clinton)
The liberal vision for America is impaired by identity politics (http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/08/media/identity-politics-reliable-sources-podcast/index.html)
An Intellectual Historian Argues His Case Against Identity Politics (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwj4r7uU8JrWAhWs64MKHTdsC54QFgg_MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F08%2F15 %2Fbooks%2Freview%2Fmark-lilla-the-once-and-future-liberal.html%3Fmcubz%3D1&usg=AFQjCNFu20k7XAvXFuyogj4KsX6wkIWRIw)
The End of Identity Liberalism (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.html?mcubz=1)
A Liberal Calls Out His Party for Its Identity Politics (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/08/25/a_liberal_calls_out_his_party_for_its_identity_pol itics_134836.html)
Mark Lilla Vs. Identity Politics (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/mark-lilla-vs-identity-politics/)
Identity politics makes victims of us all (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article170819497.html)


Get out from under that rock. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2KQcuJUe88

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvzOH2YY-_M

[Standing Wolf]

Gee whiz, Wolf- petty, juvenile, bad faith posting, out of context, borderline stalkerish and the re-expression of a charge thoroughly disproved in another thread that's obviously got you all in a snit. Impressive rhetorical skills, even for you.

Mindlessly parroting back someone's words in such an infantile manner, and then pontificating about promoting good discussion on the forum, is an example of hypocrisy the more egregious of which it is difficult to imagine. Don't worry about it, Chris - as far as I'm concerned now, you don't exist. You just aren't worth talking to any longer, if you ever were.

[AZ Jim]

The right has never been..............right!

[Chris]

Mindlessly parroting back someone's words in such an infantile manner, and then pontificating about promoting good discussion on the forum, is an example of hypocrisy the more egregious of which it is difficult to imagine. Don't worry about it, Chris - as far as I'm concerned now, you don't exist. You just aren't worth talking to any longer, if you ever were.

I don't exist yet you respond, another self-contradiction.

I find it interesting that it's perfectly fine for you to insult me with those words but when they're turned back on you, you whine. Speaking of hypocrisy.

Get over yourself, Wolf.

And get over me.

[Chris]

The right has never been..............right!

Nice whataboutism but you think what about group identity politics?

[Trish]

He's a liberal. There are many forms of liberalism--classical, socialist, progressive, and even each of those bifurcate in myriad ways.

His message is that one type of liberalism, the type that veers away from principles and into group identity, is not the type of liberalism liberals should accept.

As an analogy I think there are many kinds of conservatism but one type, the alt-right, which in many ways plays the same group identity game, is not the type conservatism should accept.
That's my point kinda. There are so many variations that it seems as though we're misrepresenting or labeling ourselves. IMO, these days it's a mark against you if you identify as a liberal or conservative. They are too broad and easily used to misrepresent the majority.

I do have to say that I'm not sure I agree that this gentlemen is a liberal. He seems more like a soft republican. Not soft in the bedroom kinda way but soft on extremism.

[Chris]

That's my point kinda. There are so many variations that it seems as though we're misrepresenting or labeling ourselves. IMO, these days it's a mark against you if you identify as a liberal or conservative. They are too broad and easily used to misrepresent the majority.

I do have to say that I'm not sure I agree that this gentlemen is a liberal. He seems more like a soft republican. Not soft in the bedroom kinda way but soft on extremism.

The argument here isn't about lumping liberals but distinguishing among them.

The speaker in the video is against the extremism of identity politics.


I think the problem may be that some liberals here the word and immediately get defensive and deflect with accusations of lumping.

[Trish]

The argument here isn't about lumping liberals but distinguishing among them.

The speaker in the video is against the extremism of identity politics.
Ah......never mind.

[Chris]

Ah......never mind.

He's not alone as I also demonstrated above.

[Standing Wolf]

Ah......never mind.

You're wise to conserve your energies for conversation with those who don't automatically reject broader or more comprehensive or insightful views - i.e., opinions that don't conform to or which demonstrate the fallacies inherent in their own - as being "off topic". Like beating your head against a wall, you'll find that it feels quite good when you decide to stop.

[Chris]

You're wise to conserve your energies for conversation with those who don't automatically reject broader or more comprehensive or insightful views - i.e., opinions that don't conform to or which demonstrate the fallacies inherent in their own - as being "off topic". Like beating your head against a wall, you'll find that it feels quite good when you decide to stop.

You mean like whining about label lumping all liberals into a stereotype when the topic differentiates different kinds of liberals?

You've gone from distracting the topic to discouraging discussion of it.

And here according to you I no longer exist.

[Trish]

You're wise to conserve your energies for conversation with those who don't automatically reject broader or more comprehensive or insightful views - i.e., opinions that don't conform to or which demonstrate the fallacies inherent in their own - as being "off topic". Like beating your head against a wall, you'll find that it feels quite good when you decide to stop.

Wolfe - I'm not getting pulled into you and Chris' disagreement style. hahahahaha

I will say that I consider you both two of the most reasonable and thoughtful members here.