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Crepitus
09-14-2017, 08:48 AM
Staunch conservative allies of President Trump have erupted in anger and incredulity after Democrats late Wednesday announced that the president had agreed to pursue a legislative deal that would protect thousands of young undocumented immigrants from deportation but not secure Trump’s signature campaign promise: building a massive wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/09/14/according-to-democrats-trump-has-done-an-about-face-on-dreamers-his-diehard-supporters-are-fuming/?utm_term=.16d4bbb9991d

gamewell45
09-14-2017, 09:23 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/09/14/according-to-democrats-trump-has-done-an-about-face-on-dreamers-his-diehard-supporters-are-fuming/?utm_term=.16d4bbb9991d
The interesting thing is that he didn't invite the republican leadership to dinner along with the democrats, which was no doubt a slap in the face to his party. It'll be interesting to see if a deal can be crafted which benefits both sides. The bottom line is Trump will have to get his party on board as well if anything is to come from these meetings.

resister
09-14-2017, 09:24 AM
As I already stated in another thread, I heard on TV this morning, any DACA deal will also require the wall.

Crepitus
09-14-2017, 09:49 AM
As I already stated in another thread, I heard on TV this morning, any DACA deal will also require the wall.

As usual he's telling different people different things.

Croft
09-14-2017, 10:20 AM
To be honest I gave up on him some time ago. Just another liar.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 11:24 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/09/14/according-to-democrats-trump-has-done-an-about-face-on-dreamers-his-diehard-supporters-are-fuming/?utm_term=.16d4bbb9991d
President Trump buys time. Building the wall is a central piece of his commitment. If he capitulates on the wall people like me will no longer support him.

JVV
09-14-2017, 11:32 AM
He'll come up with some deal to extend the already existing sections of wall by 100 yards. Then his diehard supporters will declare "promise kept" and say how great it is that we now have such a pragmatic, effective leader.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 11:34 AM
He'll come up with some deal to extend the already existing sections of wall by 100 yards. Then his diehard supporters will declare "promise kept" and say how great it is that we now have such a pragmatic, effective leader.
No. Nice try. Well, not even a nice try.

JVV
09-14-2017, 11:39 AM
Trump has spent the last 7 months breaking promises.

His diehard supporters have spent the last 7 months redrawing the line where they say "if he goes there, I won't support him anymore."

They elected a flip-flopper who has espoused progressive positions -- even on the campaign trail he espoused progressive positions along with his white nationalist dog whistles. They'll support him to the bitter end, praising his flip flops as him being effective and flexible and keeping his opponents guessing.

He'll pull the far right into the center, birthing a new strain of Eisenhower-style Republicans.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 11:43 AM
Trump has spent the last 7 months breaking promises.
The Supreme Court is better today than it was in December 2016.
We have fewer Federal regulations today than we would have. We are better for it.

I, for one, have said from the beginning I expect he will do things I like and things I don't.

Some things are central. Building the wall and deporting illegal aliens are central issues. Ending Obamacare is a central issue. Tax code simplification and tax rate reductions for everybody is a central issue.

hanger4
09-14-2017, 11:51 AM
Much ado about insignificant and misleading sound bites. Pelosi's letter to her House colleagues;

"Tonight, Leader Schumer and I had a productive meeting with President Trump where we agreed to a plan to work out an agreement to protect our nation’s DREAMERs from deportation."

A plan to work out an agreement.

Captdon
09-14-2017, 12:10 PM
Democrats announced. There's the dead giveaway. Trump said there was no deal. There was only an agreement to discuss a deal. liberals better face up to the fact that it's no wall, no DACA.

Perianne
09-14-2017, 12:22 PM
I love the idea of a wall. It doesn't have to be very tall as Mexicans tend to be short. Maybe they could put up a chain link fence. That would probably be tall enough.

Peter1469
09-14-2017, 12:51 PM
Part of living in a republic that has no clear majority view means deals will have to be made.

Dreamers for a wall. Or dreamers go home.

JVV
09-14-2017, 02:17 PM
Part of living in a republic that has no clear majority view means deals will have to be made.

Dreamers for a wall. Or dreamers go home.


The dreamers _are_ home. The United States is their home.

If Congress fails to create legislation recognizing this, Trump has already said he will "revisit" the subject, meaning he could be "forced" to basically reinstate DACA through another executive action.

Are Republicans going to put him on the spot like that?

If so, then he'll have to continue to turn to Democrats to get things done.

Peter1469
09-14-2017, 03:46 PM
The dreamers _are_ home. The United States is their home.

If Congress fails to create legislation recognizing this, Trump has already said he will "revisit" the subject, meaning he could be "forced" to basically reinstate DACA through another executive action.

Are Republicans going to put him on the spot like that?

If so, then he'll have to continue to turn to Democrats to get things done.
Only Congress can pass legislation to protect Dreamers. An EO doing it is unconstitutional.

Trump says to congress give me my wall and I will give you dreamers. That is politics. Messy. Like making sausage.

JVV
09-14-2017, 04:01 PM
Only Congress can pass legislation to protect Dreamers. An EO doing it is unconstitutional.

Trump says to congress give me my wall and I will give you dreamers. That is politics. Messy. Like making sausage.


Yes, that's what you say.

But as I said, he has already indicated that if Congress doesn't fix this in six months, he'll step in. So the pressure is on the GOP to give him a bill, any bill, not on Democrats to give him a wall.

Opposition to the repeal of DACA is bipartisan and it reaches into the business community. He will not take the bad press of deporting people who were brought to the U.S. at age one.

He's already been redefining what will qualify as a wall. By the time it gets to DACA crunch time, if Democrats give him a few more miles of wall, he'll call it a win and move on. But I don't see him even holding out for that. He'll do something to protect the dreamers, then he'll blame Republicans for not getting the wall done. Trump diehards will call Congress a bunch of RINOs and make excuses for why Trump didn't get it done.

They _say_ they'll abandon him if he doesn't keep that promise, but they won't. This will be just on more moved goal post, to add to all the other goal post carrying they've been doing.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 04:32 PM
President Trump buys time. Building the wall is a central piece of his commitment. If he capitulates on the wall people like me will no longer support him.

The Congress will not support building this wall.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 04:33 PM
I love the idea of a wall. It doesn't have to be very tall as Mexicans tend to be short. Maybe they could put up a chain link fence. That would probably be tall enough.
Pointy toed shoes are effective fence climbers.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 05:05 PM
The Congress will not support building this wall.
You and Paul Rino agree. I disagree.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 05:12 PM
You and Paul Rino agree. I disagree.. You can disagree all day long. Still, the current congress will not support funding for any wall. The next congress won't either.

For different reasons neither party wants to stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 05:30 PM
. You can disagree all day long. Still, the current congress will not support funding for any wall. The next congress won't either.

For different reasons neither party wants to stop the flow of illegal immigrants.
Right. If President Trump fails to deliver a wall it will be the end of his presidency. I believe we are going to get a big, beautiful wall.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 05:37 PM
Right. If President Trump fails to deliver a wall it will be the end of his presidency. I believe we are going to get a big, beautiful wall.

He's going to keep calling for it, but it's not going to happen. You'll forgive him and blame the congress.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 05:56 PM
He's going to keep calling for it, but it's not going to happen. You'll forgive him and blame the congress.
It is President Trump's promise. It is his responsibility.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:01 PM
It is President Trump's promise. It is his responsibility.
You've stated in the past that he lost your support. Remember the bombing of Syria?

You'll give him a pass and blame the Congress.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 06:04 PM
You've stated in the past that he lost your support. Remember the bombing of Syria?
You'll give him a pass and blame the Congress.
I did not give him a pass. The House should have impeached President Trump. I cannot do anything about that. I can stop supporting President Trump if he reneges, for any reason, on building the wall and deporting illegal aliens.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:06 PM
I did not give him a pass. The House should have impeached President Trump. I cannot do anything about that. I can stop supporting President Trump if he reneges, for any reason, on building the wall and deporting illegal aliens.
Like I said. You claimed to have withdrawn your support in the past only to become his prime cheerleader here. You'll do it again.

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 06:16 PM
Like I said. You claimed to have withdrawn your support in the past only to become his prime cheerleader here. You'll do it again.
You err. So does he.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:27 PM
Die-hard Trumpkins pissed about possible DACA deal.
So, they are pissed off about something which didn't happen? That sounds more the trait of a liberal Democrat type.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:28 PM
You err. So does he.


I'll remember this when you blame the congress for not supporting the funding for this wall.

Peter1469
09-14-2017, 06:30 PM
What other unconstitutional actions do you support being done via EO?
Yes, that's what you say.

But as I said, he has already indicated that if Congress doesn't fix this in six months, he'll step in. So the pressure is on the GOP to give him a bill, any bill, not on Democrats to give him a wall.

Opposition to the repeal of DACA is bipartisan and it reaches into the business community. He will not take the bad press of deporting people who were brought to the U.S. at age one.

He's already been redefining what will qualify as a wall. By the time it gets to DACA crunch time, if Democrats give him a few more miles of wall, he'll call it a win and move on. But I don't see him even holding out for that. He'll do something to protect the dreamers, then he'll blame Republicans for not getting the wall done. Trump diehards will call Congress a bunch of RINOs and make excuses for why Trump didn't get it done.

They _say_ they'll abandon him if he doesn't keep that promise, but they won't. This will be just on more moved goal post, to add to all the other goal post carrying they've been doing.

Crepitus
09-14-2017, 06:43 PM
Die-hard Trumpkins pissed about possible DACA deal.
So, they are pissed off about something which didn't happen? That sounds more the trait of a liberal Democrat type.

Coulter: https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/350781-coulter-trump-is-off-the-trump-train%3famp

Breitbart : http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/13/report-trump-caves-on-daca-wants-quick-amnesty-for-800k-illegal-aliens/


A host of others: http://fortune.com/2017/09/14/trump-daca-deal-pelosi-schumer-conservatives-react/

What makes you think it didn't happen?

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 06:44 PM
I'll remember this when you blame the congress for not supporting the funding for this wall.
It was Trump's promise. It is Trump's responsibility.

hanger4
09-14-2017, 06:50 PM
Coulter: https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/350781-coulter-trump-is-off-the-trump-train%3famp

Breitbart : http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/13/report-trump-caves-on-daca-wants-quick-amnesty-for-800k-illegal-aliens/


A host of others: http://fortune.com/2017/09/14/trump-daca-deal-pelosi-schumer-conservatives-react/

What makes you think it didn't happen?

Pelosi's letter to her House colleagues;

"Tonight, Leader Schumer and I had a productive meeting with President Trump where we agreed to a plan to work out an agreement to protect our nation’s DREAMERs from deportation."

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:52 PM
Coulter: https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/350781-coulter-trump-is-off-the-trump-train%3famp

Breitbart : http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/13/report-trump-caves-on-daca-wants-quick-amnesty-for-800k-illegal-aliens/


A host of others: http://fortune.com/2017/09/14/trump-daca-deal-pelosi-schumer-conservatives-react/

What makes you think it didn't happen?

Because everyone who would be involved said that it didn't happen. The media is generally wrong these days.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:54 PM
It was Trump's promise. It is Trump's responsibility.And you'll give him s pass and blame the congress.

Crepitus
09-14-2017, 06:55 PM
Because everyone who would be involved said that it didn't happen. The media is generally wrong these days.

So who, besides trump and his mouthpiece Sarah, are saying it didn't happen?

Peter1469
09-14-2017, 06:57 PM
It looks like they only agreed to work on a deal.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 06:58 PM
So who, besides trump and his mouthpiece Sarah, are saying it didn't happen?

Are you serious? Don't you pay attention to the things Pelosi and Schumer vomit from their hyper partisan mouth?

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 06:58 PM
And you'll give him s pass and blame the congress.
I see we are going round and round. Candidate Trump promised a wall. Candidate Trump promised to deport illegal aliens. It was his promise, not the Congresses promise. If President Trump reneges or fails it is wholly on him. And he loses me.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 07:00 PM
It looks like they only agreed to work on a deal. They agreed to talk. Ground breaking stuff.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 07:02 PM
I see we are going round and round. Candidate Trump promised a wall. Candidate Trump promised to deport illegal aliens. It was his promise, not the Congresses promise. If President Trump reneges or fails it is wholly on him. And he loses me.
And you've claimed in the past to have pulled your support. That lasted a day. It's reasonable to believe you'll do it again. Especially when the POTUS doesn't have the authority to fund the construction of this wall.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 07:03 PM
So who, besides trump and his mouthpiece Sarah, are saying it didn't happen?. What makes you think this deal was reached anyway?

MisterVeritis
09-14-2017, 08:18 PM
And you've claimed in the past to have pulled your support. That lasted a day. It's reasonable to believe you'll do it again. Especially when the POTUS doesn't have the authority to fund the construction of this wall.
I did not pull my support. I said president Trump should have been impeached for starting a war with Syria. I contacted my Representative. He smirked. It seems unconstitutional acts are no longer a problem.

hanger4
09-14-2017, 08:24 PM
So who, besides trump and his mouthpiece Sarah, are saying it didn't happen?

Pelosi

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 08:48 PM
Pelosi
You're wasting your time. Facts are meaningless to that one.

JVV
09-14-2017, 08:59 PM
Yes, that's what you say.

But as I said, he has already indicated that if Congress doesn't fix this in six months, he'll step in. So the pressure is on the GOP to give him a bill, any bill, not on Democrats to give him a wall.

Opposition to the repeal of DACA is bipartisan and it reaches into the business community. He will not take the bad press of deporting people who were brought to the U.S. at age one.

He's already been redefining what will qualify as a wall. By the time it gets to DACA crunch time, if Democrats give him a few more miles of wall, he'll call it a win and move on. But I don't see him even holding out for that. He'll do something to protect the dreamers, then he'll blame Republicans for not getting the wall done. Trump diehards will call Congress a bunch of RINOs and make excuses for why Trump didn't get it done.

They _say_ they'll abandon him if he doesn't keep that promise, but they won't. This will be just on more moved goal post, to add to all the other goal post carrying they've been doing.

What other unconstitutional actions do you support being done via EO?

This thread isn't about me and what I support. It's not about "unconstitutional actions" in general. It's about the reactions of Trump supporters to a deal Trump might make with Democrats.

If Trump makes this deal with Democrats supposedly this will cause many to stop supporting him. Additionally, I point out that if Congress doesn't come to a deal on DACA, then Trump has said that he'll revisit it -- with the implication that he'll do something unilaterally without Congress, like Obama did. And many say that THAT would cause them to stop supporting Trump.


But many have said that before about other lines in the sand, and he's crossed the line, and they still support him.


The "die-hard Trumpkins" are called that for a reason. We have yet to see any signs that they'll ever turn their back on him, no matter what he does. A phenomenon he commented on during the campaign. He can do ANYTHING, and they'll continue to support him. They may grumble, but they'll find someone else to blame other than Trump, and then fall in line with him.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 08:59 PM
I did not pull my support...
You claimed that right after the bombing of Syria.

Crepitus
09-14-2017, 09:10 PM
Because everyone who would be involved said that it didn't happen. The media is generally wrong these days.

Trump pulled a 180 when he heard the fallout.

Crepitus
09-14-2017, 09:15 PM
. What makes you think this deal was reached anyway?

Why would they come forward and say it if they knew it would be disproven immediately? There is no benefit to them from doing that. It is far more likely that Trump back pedaled when he saw the response from his base.

Tahuyaman
09-14-2017, 09:58 PM
Why would they come forward and say it if they knew it would be disproven immediately? There is no benefit to them from doing that. It is far more likely that Trump back pedaled when he saw the response from his base. Where did anyone come out and say that an agreement was reached? How do facts somehow continually elude you?

hanger4
09-14-2017, 10:09 PM
Why would they come forward and say it if they knew it would be disproven immediately? There is no benefit to them from doing that. It is far more likely that Trump back pedaled when he saw the response from his base.

Did Pelosi lie to her House colleagues Crepitus ??