Water Cooler Discussion Today

[Agent Zero]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

[Peter1469]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to keep his office?

It is to your credit that you had not thought of that silly hypo on your own. I am pleased.

[Perianne]

Your coworkers sound fascinating. Please share more of their insights.

[jimmyz]

This OP poster by his/her own admission works for the US State department. Aren't you glad that your tax money pays the OP to work on our behalf using the mentality on display here. We need mandatory drug testing for all government workers.

[Standing Wolf]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to keep his office?

Bush 43 is at least twice as intelligent as Trump and he started a war in Iraq that has taken the lives of more than 4,400 U.S. service members and - by some estimates - half a million Iraqis, in order to one-up Bush 41 and be assured a second term by being a "war-time President".

So, the answer to your question is, of course, yes.

[Agent Zero]

Bush 43 is at least twice as intelligent as Trump and he started a war in Iraq that has taken the lives of more than 4,400 U.S. service members and - by some estimates - half a million Iraqis, in order to one-up Bush 41 and be assured a second term by being a "war-time President".

So, the answer to your question is, of course, yes.

I worked under Bush, as well as Obama. Neither were crazy enough to threaten to drop nukes on a country and think it the resultant firestorm wouldn't cross any borders or waft through the skies.

[Standing Wolf]

I worked under Bush, as well as Obama. Neither were crazy enough to threaten to drop nukes on a country and think it the resultant firestorm wouldn't cross any borders or waft through the skies.

Trump lives in a world of his own, and I'm not entirely sure what color the sky is there. I'm guessing gold.

[MisterVeritis]

I worked under Bush, as well as Obama. Neither were crazy enough to threaten to drop nukes on a country and think it the resultant firestorm wouldn't cross any borders or waft through the skies.
You don't know much about nuclear weapons, do you?

[Common]

You can refer to him as Mr President Donald Trump

[Standing Wolf]

MV, you need new material. The "My word, don't you know anything?" bit has not aged well.

[Agent Zero]

Trump lives in a world of his own, and I'm not entirely sure what color the sky is there. I'm guessing gold.

Orange. Most definitely orange.

[Agent Zero]

You don't know much about nuclear weapons, do you?

Let me see if I have this right. You're saying if Trump drops a nuke on North Korea, the resultant devastation would stop at the border? And the radioactive clouds will dissipate over the fields of Pyongyang, never approaching the clear blue skies of Seoul?

And you think I don't know much about nuclear weapons?

[MisterVeritis]

MV, you need new material. The "My word, don't you know anything?" bit has not aged well.
Do you know anything about nuclear weapons? If you two were smarter I could ask different questions.

[Agent Zero]

Do you know anything about nuclear weapons? If you two were smarter I could ask different questions.

You sure don't.

[MisterVeritis]

Let me see if I have this right. You're saying if Trump drops a nuke on North Korea, the resultant devastation would stop at the border? And the radioactive clouds will dissipate over the fields of Pyongyang, never approaching the clear blue skies of Seoul?

And you think I don't know much about nuclear weapons?
One could use dozens of nuclear weapons on North Korea with little fallout to worry about.

[MisterVeritis]

You sure don't.
Nuclear targeting and nuclear warfighting was my line of business for almost five years.

[Hoosier8]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?
Which one of your coworkers got the soggy biscuit?

[KathyS]

Bush 43 is at least twice as intelligent as Trump and he started a war in Iraq that has taken the lives of more than 4,400 U.S. service members and - by some estimates - half a million Iraqis, in order to one-up Bush 41 and be assured a second term by being a "war-time President".

So, the answer to your question is, of course, yes.

I beg to differ about the bolded. Bush seems to be a kind man, but smarter than Trump he ain't. He bankrupted a stupid baseball team, for God's sake.

Trump listens to his advisers, including military, and they are doing a great job so far. He's not perfect, but as I said in another thread, he's quickly growing into the job and turning into a powerful leader. Refreshing after the weaknesses of previous administrations.

[Agent Zero]

I beg to differ about the bolded. Bush seems to be a kind man, but smarter than Trump he ain't. He bankrupted a stupid baseball team, for God's sake.

Trump listens to his advisers, including military, and they are doing a great job so far. He's not perfect, but as I said in another thread, he's quickly growing into the job and turning into a powerful leader. Refreshing after the weaknesses of previous administrations.
The Rangers filed bankruptcy in 2010, twelve years after Bush and his partners sold the team.

How many times has Trump businesses filed bankruptcy?

[del]

I beg to differ about the bolded. Bush seems to be a kind man, but smarter than Trump he ain't. He bankrupted a stupid baseball team, for God's sake.

Trump listens to his advisers, including military, and they are doing a great job so far. He's not perfect, but as I said in another thread, he's quickly growing into the job and turning into a powerful leader. Refreshing after the weaknesses of previous administrations.
trump bankrupted at least one casino, among other things.

do you know how stupid you have to be to lose money running a casino?

[Agent Zero]

Nuclear targeting and nuclear warfighting was my line of business for almost five years.
In 1948?

[Captain Obvious]

trump bankrupted at least one casino, among other things.

do you know how stupid you have to be to lose money running a casino?

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think a billionaire several times over cares what you think about one of his few failed ventures?

Do you know how stupid you have to be if you think every successful billionaire didn't have a few failures along the line?

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think anyone here, Trump supporters or not really care?

All loaded questions, carry on Gumby

[Crepitus]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

I believe it is possible. I don't rate it as very likely though, I think he's just an idiot.

[jimmyz]

I worked under Bush, as well as Obama. Neither were crazy enough to threaten to drop nukes on a country and think it the resultant firestorm wouldn't cross any borders or waft through the skies.

Trump has never "threaten to drop nukes on a country". You are blinded and deafened by your own fear of violence. It's too bad you aren't higher up the DC food chain. If you were you'd have your designated billion dollar nuclear attach shelter to scurry to in the event of thermonuclear war. And be ever so safe with your fellow DC rats.

[del]

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think a billionaire several times over cares what you think about one of his few failed ventures?

Do you know how stupid you have to be if you think every successful billionaire didn't have a few failures along the line?

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think anyone here, Trump supporters or not really care?

All loaded questions, carry on Gumby

my guess would be almost as stupid as you, pokey

[del]

Trump has never "threaten to drop nukes on a country". You are blinded and deafened by your own fear and violence. It's too bad you aren't higher up the DC food chain. If you were you'd have your designated billion dollar nuclear attach shelter to scurry to in the event of thermonuclear war. And be ever so safe with your fellow DC rats.

how is trump going to *totally destroy* n. korea?

tweet at them until they die laughing at the asshat?

[Peter1469]

The Rangers filed bankruptcy in 2010, twelve years after Bush and his partners sold the team.

How many times has Trump businesses filed bankruptcy?

Mostly casinos and failing business models. The US has a bankruptcy code for a reason.

How many times has Trump declared personal bankruptcy?

[Peter1469]

trump bankrupted at least one casino, among other things.

do you know how stupid you have to be to lose money running a casino?

Atlantic City is a shit hole.

[Mister D]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

Do you work at Burger King? Seriously, I'm just trying to think of a place where such an idiotic discussion could possibly take place.

[Mister D]

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think a billionaire several times over cares what you think about one of his few failed ventures?

Do you know how stupid you have to be if you think every successful billionaire didn't have a few failures along the line?

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think anyone here, Trump supporters or not really care?

All loaded questions, carry on Gumby
del genuinely believes he's smarter than Trump.lol

[Common]

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think a billionaire several times over cares what you think about one of his few failed ventures?

Do you know how stupid you have to be if you think every successful billionaire didn't have a few failures along the line?

Do you know how stupid you have to be to think anyone here, Trump supporters or not really care?

All loaded questions, carry on Gumby
There is only one reason anyone owns a casino other than indians. To hide money and make lots of untaxable income. Bankrupting casinos is common practice in the industry every Atlantic Casino has gone bankrupt once and most twice or more. Its used as a business tactic.

Trump Bankrupted 3 of his casinos, Trump Marina, Trump Plaza and Trump Taj Mahal, all 3 were bankrupted after he sold them by the next owners.

Everyone forgets when Bill Clinton re wrote bankruptcy laws he made it so no individual american could wipe out their debt anymore. He conveniently didnt change that for business bankruptcy

[Peter1469]

There is only one reason anyone owns a casino other than indians. To hide money and make lots of untaxable income. Bankrupting casinos is common practice in the industry every Atlantic Casino has gone bankrupt once and most twice or more. Its used as a business tactic.

Trump Bankrupted 3 of his casinos, Trump Marina, Trump Plaza and Trump Taj Mahal, all 3 were bankrupted after he sold them by the next owners.

Everyone forgets when Bill Clinton re wrote bankruptcy laws he made it so no individual american could wipe out their debt. He conveniently didnt change that for business bankruptcy
Chapter 7 gets rid of debt for the most part. Chapter 11 reorganizes it. There are other provisions of the code as well.

We should make it easier for people to use it. That will put to heel predatory lenders.

[Tahuyaman]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

That's already been done. Bill Clinton started a war against a nation which posed no threat to us in any way just to change the focus away from the Monica Lewinski thing.

[Mister D]

That's already been done. Bill Clinton started a war against a nation which posed no threat to us in any way just to change the focus away from the Monica Lewinski thing.
Ouch.

[Captain Obvious]

That's already been done. Bill Clinton started a war against a nation which posed no threat to us in any way just to change the focus away from the Monica Lewinski thing.

I bet you five bucks that never came up around the water cooler.

[Kalkin]

Your coworkers sound fascinating. Please share more of their insights.
I'd rather hear the musings of actual slugs and leeches, tbh.

[Kalkin]

MV, you need new material. The "My word, don't you know anything?" bit has not aged well.
Neither has your thinly veiled butthurt "Trump is dumb" meme.

Bush 43 is at least twice as intelligent as Trump

[Tahuyaman]

I bet you five bucks that never came up around the water cooler.


Maybe it was a kool-aid cooler?

[Hal Jordan]

Neither has your thinly veiled butthurt "Trump is dumb" meme.

That implies Bush was dumb. Honestly, he had plenty of people fooled into believing it, but he wasn't actually dumb. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was a hell of a lot smarter than people give him credit for.

[ripmeister]

Nuclear targeting and nuclear warfighting was my line of business for almost five years.
Then educate us! Stop with the obtuse intellectual bullying and educate us. I look forward to hearing from your expertise.

[Kalkin]

That implies Bush was dumb. Honestly, he had plenty of people fooled into believing it, but he wasn't actually dumb. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was a hell of a lot smarter than people give him credit for.

Dumb people don't attain the presidency.

[Chris]

What if liberals are wagging the dog with the Russian "scandal"?

[Tahuyaman]

Nuclear targeting and nuclear warfighting was my line of business for almost five years.

Less than five years isn't exactly a lifetime of experience. Especially in the nuclear field.

[Tahuyaman]

trump bankrupted at least one casino, among other things.

do you know how stupid you have to be to lose money running a casino?

Trump is a risk taker. He could have just sat on or simply invested the wealth he inhereted, but that not what he does.

His failures are big, but so are his successes.

[MisterVeritis]

Then educate us! Stop with the obtuse intellectual bullying and educate us. I look forward to hearing from your expertise.
You have had many opportunities to read and interact concerning nuclear war and nuclear weapons. Have you?

[MisterVeritis]

Less than five years isn't exactly a lifetime of experience. Especially in the nuclear field.
You don't know what you are talking about.

[MisterVeritis]

In 1948?
Early 1990s. SIOP 6

[ripmeister]

You have had many opportunities to read and interact concerning nuclear war and nuclear weapons. Have you?
No. That's why I asked you to educate us. You are the self-described expert. You apparently have knowledge of the concept of a limited nuclear attack. Please explain it so I can understand.

[ripmeister]

You don't know what you are talking about.
Then knock off the diversions and condescension and educate us. I look forward to it. In the meantime I need to go irradiate some mice.

[MisterVeritis]

No. That's why I asked you to educate us. You are the self-described expert. You apparently have knowledge of the concept of a limited nuclear attack. Please explain it so I can understand.
A nuclear weapon is just like any other weapon. One uses it for its effects on the target. If the targeteer wants radioactive fallout one uses a surface burst to create it. If one wants overpressure damage without fallout (other than the bomb parts themselves) one uses an airburst where the fireball does not intersect the ground or the target.

Mix and match effects to targets. Easy Peasy.

[MisterVeritis]

Then knock off the diversions and condescension and educate us. I look forward to it. In the meantime I need to go irradiate some mice.
One can become an expert in nuclear war planning and warfighting in less than a year. Tahu and others occasionally speak well beyond their experiences and expertise.

[Common]

Chapter 7 gets rid of debt for the most part. Chapter 11 reorganizes it. There are other provisions of the code as well.

We should make it easier for people to use it. That will put to heel predatory lenders.

Chapter 7 no longer wipes out debt for individuals

[Mark III]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

I don't think Trump wants to destroy the world to distract attention from his Russia problems.

Trump has a few basic beliefs (one of them being that US might permits it to dictate what other nations should do) and he takes them out for a spin now and then. He gets a hard on when he talks about his authority to blow up this place or that place.

He is someone who gets everything they know about the world from television shows. This should frighten everyone a lot more than it appears to.

[ripmeister]

One can become an expert in nuclear war planning and warfighting in less than a year. Tahu and others occasionally speak well beyond their experiences and expertise.
Ok, but please explain to us your apparent contention that a nuclear strike can be done in a way that doesn't involve windblown fallout or things of that nature. I'm truly curious about that, the idea that we apparently have weapons that wouldn't have that sort of collateral damage.

[MisterVeritis]

Ok, but please explain to us your apparent contention that a nuclear strike can be done in a way that doesn't involve windblown fallout or things of that nature. I'm truly curious about that, the idea that we apparently have weapons that wouldn't have that sort of collateral damage.
You fail to read what I wrote and then return again to ask the same question I have already answered. Do your homework. Then return with your questions.

Consider reading message 50.

[Tahuyaman]

You don't know what you are talking about.
Yes I do. Less than five years experience doesn't make one an expert. It makes one more informed than a novice though.

[Tahuyaman]

One can become an expert in nuclear war planning and warfighting in less than a year. Tahu and others occasionally speak well beyond their experiences and expertise.


I had more than twenty years experience as a war fighter. Every time I went into battle, I learned something new.

[MisterVeritis]

Yes I do. Less than five years experience doesn't make one an expert. It makes one more informed than a novice though.
You don't know what you are talking about. That will not stop you from pontificating. It would slow a wise man. It will not slow you.

[Tahuyaman]

Ok, but please explain to us your apparent contention that a nuclear strike can be done in a way that doesn't involve windblown fallout or things of that nature. I'm truly curious about that, the idea that we apparently have weapons that wouldn't have that sort of collateral damage.


He wants people think that he's an expert on all issues involving national security.

[MisterVeritis]

I had more than twenty years experience as a war fighter. Every time I went into battle, I learned something new.
How many times did you go into battle? Was your experience guided by training and exercises or do you just go off into battle?

You are limited, accept it.

[MisterVeritis]

He wants people think that he's an expert on all issues involving national security.
Try to be precise; nuclear war planning and nuclear war fighting.

[Tahuyaman]

How many times did you go into battle? Was your experience guided by training and exercises or do you just go off into battle?

You are limited, accept it.

I went into battle more times than you participated in the employed of a nuclear weapon.

Your less than than five years experience and $4.00 can get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

[Tahuyaman]

Try to be precise; nuclear war planning and nuclear war fighting.

Obviously you are not an expert.

[Adelaide]

Which one of your coworkers got the soggy biscuit?

Thread banned.

[MisterVeritis]

I went into battle more times than you participated in the employed of a nuclear weapon.
Your less than than five years experience and $4.00 can get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
You failed to answer my reasonable questions. Fascinating.

If I went to Starbucks would you be a barista there? You would, wouldn't you?

[MisterVeritis]

Obviously you are not an expert.
I understand. For those without much intellectual horsepower, expertise is impossible. You are projecting your limitations. Who could blame you? Certainly not I.

[Tahuyaman]

I understand. For those without much intellectual horsepower, expertise is impossible. You are projecting your limitations. Who could blame you? Certainly not I.


It's possible. Just not in the case of your less than five years experience.

[MisterVeritis]

It's possible. Just not in the case of your less than five years experience.
You may have the last word.

For those of you who want to discuss the topic, I remain ready. I will no longer respond to Tahu's trolling posts.

[Tahuyaman]

That's funny.

[ripmeister]

You fail to read what I wrote and then return again to ask the same question I have already answered. Do your homework. Then return with your questions.
.
Consider reading message 50.

I missed that post

[AZ Jim]

del genuinely believes he's smarter than Trump.lolOf course he is, we all are. trump is a midget minded arrogant asshole. Questions?

[Cletus]

Of course he is, we all are. trump is a midget minded arrogant asshole. Questions?

Yet, he is POTUS.

Trump is actually doing what our President's over the last 20+ years have failed to do. He has one Hell of a mess to clean up and he is doing it a little at a time. He has reasserted that the US does not exist for the convenience or pleasure of other countries. He has made it clear that he will be a friend to our friends and those who choose not to be our friends can fend for themselves. Unlike his immediate predecessor, he understands that the President of the United States works for the people of the United States and he will place our interests above those of all others.

He is doing his job, whether you like it or not.

[Docthehun]

You can refer to him as Mr President Donald Trump

You mean like many of my fellow Republicans referred to his predecessor? Just sayin'

[AeonPax]

`
`
I've gone to Starbucks once in my life. Someone treated me. To their chagrin, I just ordered a cup of regular coffee, with cream. Nothing fancy. I drink coffee for the the caffeine, not taste.

In informal conversation, I refer to Trump as just Trump. No salutation.

I believe Trump thinks he is capable of launching a preemptive nuclear strike.

[JVV]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

Somewhere in his lizard brain that could be a motivation. But I don't give him credit for that much conscious organization of effort.

[JVV]

del genuinely believes he's smarter than Trump.lol


He is.

Probably even you are smarter than Trump.

[Agent Zero]

That's already been done. Bill Clinton started a war against a nation which posed no threat to us in any way just to change the focus away from the Monica Lewinski thing.


Ouch.
Grenada?

[Agent Zero]

No. That's why I asked you to educate us. You are the self-described expert. You apparently have knowledge of the concept of a limited nuclear attack. Please explain it so I can understand.


Then knock off the diversions and condescension and educate us. I look forward to it. In the meantime I need to go irradiate some mice.
He doesn't know what he talks about. I was stationed at Ellsworth AFB in SD in the early 1990s. At that time missile defense concentrated on use of non-nuclear defense after the end of the cold war and SIOP had long been replaced by a more defensive missile defense system and concentration on prevention rather than attack. As well as the B2 and Stealth bombers. (Hopefully Ellsworth will get the new B21 Stealth bombers.) The nickname for SIOP at the time was MAD, or Mutual Assured Destruction. We all know what that means.

A nuclear weapon is just like any other weapon. One uses it for its effects on the target. If the targeteer wants radioactive fallout one uses a surface burst to create it. If one wants overpressure damage without fallout (other than the bomb parts themselves) one uses an airburst where the fireball does not intersect the ground or the target.

Mix and match effects to targets. Easy Peasy.

Yeah. I watched War Games too.

[Captain Obvious]

He is.

Probably even you are smarter than Trump.

Statements like this reflect far more negatively on you than the nonsense you are trying to project.

[Agent Zero]

I suspect at the very best Mr V was a scope dope like me, sitting in front of a computer screen looking for incoming missiles that never arrived. I'll admit it, though.

[MisterVeritis]

You mean like many of my fellow Republicans referred to his predecessor? Just sayin'
It would be silly to refer to Barrack Hussein O as President Donald Trump.

:grin:

[Peter1469]

Grenada?

Yugoslavia.

[MisterVeritis]

`
I believe Trump thinks he is capable of launching a preemptive nuclear strike.
Of course, any President is capable of launching a preemptive strike.

[MisterVeritis]

Grenada?
This will help clear your confusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

[MisterVeritis]

He doesn't know what he talks about. I was stationed at Ellsworth AFB in SD in the early 1990s. At that time missile defense concentrated on use of non-nuclear defense after the end of the cold war and SIOP had long been replaced by a more defensive missile defense system and concentration on prevention rather than attack. As well as the B2 and Stealth bombers. (Hopefully Ellsworth will get the new B21 Stealth bombers.) The nickname for SIOP at the time was MAD, or Mutual Assured Destruction. We all know what that means.

There is so much "fail" here.

I did not mention missile defense. I said nuclear war planning and nuclear warfighting.

The single integrated operations plan (SIOP) is a grouping of offensive warfighting plans. There was no nickname for the SIOP. The SIOP 6 I operated within integrated nuclear fires from ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, submarine-launched ballistic missiles and a wide variety of gravity bombs.

Grow up.

[MisterVeritis]

I suspect at the very best Mr V was a scope dope like me, sitting in front of a computer screen looking for incoming missiles that never arrived. I'll admit it, though.
No. I was an intelligence officer, a part of a battle staff. My job included determining which weapons should be used against which targets if it came to that. The bulk of my job involved supporting the command and control structure at the highest levels.

One of my favorite memories involved training a SIOP advisor.

[Tahuyaman]

Agent Zero, please never again "like" one of my comments.

[Cletus]

I believe Trump thinks he is capable of launching a preemptive nuclear strike.


He is the POTUS. Yes, he is capable of launching a preemptive nuclear strike.

However, nothing in his rhetoric has shown a predisposition toward doing so.

[JVV]

Statements like this reflect far more negatively on you than the nonsense you are trying to project.

Did you say that to Mister D for what he said to del?












Didn't think so.

You better go to the washroom -- there's a smudge on your team jersey.

[Ethereal]

Did you say that to Mister D for what he said to del?

Del is a vicious asshole. He deserves every insult that comes his way.

[MisterVeritis]

I watched a beautiful talking head decry the upcoming NORK hydrogen bomb test somewhere over the Pacific Ocean. She was concerned about the enormous environmental damage and its impact on the West coast of the USA.

Unless the people were told there is a test they would not experience any impacts.

Another talking head talked about the thousands of additional cancer deaths. Rubbish. More people will die because they sit on their butts all day eating junk food and drinking beer than will die from all of the nuclear tests performed to date.

[Tahuyaman]

That's already been done. Bill Clinton started a war against a nation which posed no threat to us in any way just to change the focus away from the Monica Lewinski thing.


Grenada?


Really? Grenada?

[JVV]

Del is a vicious asshole. He deserves every insult that comes his way.


Always one excuse or another for the double standard.

*shrugs*




Fact remains -- del is more intelligent than Trump. The majority of people who are capable of posting on a political forum are more intelligent than Trump.

[Cletus]

Really? Grenada?

He is with the State Department, you know. He knows things. :grin:

[Tahuyaman]

Of course he is, we all are. trump is a midget minded arrogant $#@!. Questions?

You certainly have no room to talk.

[Ethereal]

Always one excuse or another for the double standard.

*shrugs*




Fact remains -- del is more intelligent than Trump. The majority of people who are capable of posting on a political forum are more intelligent than Trump.
Perhaps he is more intelligent than Trump. But he is still undeserving of your defense. Whatever is said to del is 100% a response to extremely nasty and vicious things del has said in the past. You would do well not to insert yourself into the middle of these longstanding feuds. I say that sincerely.

[resister]

Always one excuse or another for the double standard.

*shrugs*




Fact remains -- del is more intelligent than Trump. The majority of people who are capable of posting on a political forum are more intelligent than Trump.
I bet Trump can manage to capitalize a sentence.

[Captdon]

Several of us were talking today and someone brought up a point that I never thought of and, to be honest, think it could be a viable observation.

What if Trump is crazy enough to rattle all these swords, threaten to obliterate all of North Korea, insult world leaders left and right, post insanely improper of gifs of Hillary being injured, tweet all hours of the day....

Only to distract attention from the Russia investigation?

Is he really capable of destroying the world in order to not face the shame of losing his office?

There's no reasonable answer to a question like this.

[JVV]

I bet Trump can manage to capitalize a sentence.


Who is missing caps? I have caps at the beginning of all my sentences, and even my sentence fragments.

Meanwhile, you're attributing that skill to someone who tweeted "covfefe" and then wandered away, oblivious.




Which brings us back to the topic. Trump is too oblivious to be doing all this saber-rattling and general craziness just to distract from Russia. He's doing it because he's a thin-skinned nutter. He thinks his posturing is presidential, then people laugh at his best efforts, so he mopes and postures (and insults) some more, generating a vicious cycle.

No big plans with this guy. Just free-form crazy.

[resister]

Who is missing caps? I have caps at the beginning of all my sentences, and even my sentence fragments.

Meanwhile, you're attributing that skill to someone who tweeted "covfefe" and then wandered away, oblivious.




Which brings us back to the topic. Trump is too oblivious to be doing all this saber-rattling and general craziness just to distract from Russia. He's doing it because he's a thin-skinned nutter. He thinks his posturing is presidential, then people laugh at his best efforts, so he mopes and postures (and insults) some more, generating a vicious cycle.

No big plans with this guy. Just free-form crazy.
Not you, a certain member who is smarter than Trump, never uses capps.

[Mister D]

Trump is smarter than most of our members. Bush was too. Plebs...

[Tahuyaman]

Trump is smarter than most of our members. Bush was too. Plebs...
People like AZ Jim think stupidity is demonstrated by disagreeing with a hard line liberal on any political issue.

[AZ Jim]

People like @AZ Jim (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1901) think stupidity is demonstrated by disagreeing with a hard line liberal on any political issue.You have a schoolgirl crush on me? Get a hobby.

[Tahuyaman]

You have a schoolgirl crush on me? Get a hobby.. This is a discussion forum. You made a comment which prompted me to make a comment. If you can't handle having your views called out or criticized, don't put them out there to begin with.

It appears that you want a liberal echo chamber.

[AZ Jim]

. This is a discussion forum. You made a comment which prompted me to make a comment. If you can't handle having your views called out or criticized, don't put them out there to begin with.

It appears that you want a liberal echo chamber.Here's a quarter, call someone who gives a shit what you think...TROLL.

[Tahuyaman]

Here's a quarter, call someone who gives a $#@! what you think...TROLL.

So. Discussing how you formed your opinion is out of the question?

[Adelaide]

Here's a quarter, call someone who gives a shit what you think...TROLL.

Thread banned for insults.

[Adelaide]

Del is a vicious asshole. He deserves every insult that comes his way.

Thread banned for insults.

[Agent Zero]

Trump is smarter than most of our members. Bush was too. Plebs...

Don't worry. Someday you'll be as smart as Trump.

[Agent Zero]

. This is a discussion forum. You made a comment which prompted me to make a comment. If you can't handle having your views called out or criticized, don't put them out there to begin with.

It appears that you want a liberal echo chamber.

It appears that you want a conservative echo chamber.

Can you possibly try participating in threads instead of immaturely dishing out insults and bad faith posts?

[resister]

It appears that you want a conservative echo chamber.

Can you possibly try participating in threads instead of immaturely dishing out insults and bad faith posts?
lol @ post 109:rollseyes:

[Agent Zero]

I watched a beautiful talking head decry the upcoming NORK hydrogen bomb test somewhere over the Pacific Ocean. She was concerned about the enormous environmental damage and its impact on the West coast of the USA.

Unless the people were told there is a test they would not experience any impacts.

Another talking head talked about the thousands of additional cancer deaths. Rubbish. More people will die because they sit on their butts all day eating junk food and drinking beer than will die from all of the nuclear tests performed to date.

Coupla more questions...but first:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/


Table 2 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00045/?report=objectonly) indicates that cancer mortality owing to local fallout would be greatly increased among the survivors of a nuclear war.3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/#) The increased risk of cancer would be far from being the most horrible consequence of the disaster. Depending on the risk model used and the method of projection beyond the 30 years of present follow-up, the excess mortality would be around 5 percent, or 17 percent of the normal cancer burden. In other words, if 15 percent of some present populations today could normally be expected to die of cancer, taking into consideration a 10-year latency period, about 16-18 percent of the surviving population would die of cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00045/?report=thumb (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00045/?report=objectonly)Table 2 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00045/?report=objectonly)Estimated Cancer Deaths per Million Survivors, Using 1980 BEIR Risk Equations and Projection Models (all ages combined).


The most noticeable oncological effect would be that of leukemia. The excess risk would be relatively high compared with the normal risk, and it would occur within 2-30 years after nuclear war. However, the total number of deaths from radiation-induced leukemia would be large.
Radiation-induced solid tumors tend to occur at ages at which such cancers normally occur; that is, radiation causes more cancer deaths to occur, but not at earlier ages than usual. Because most cancer deaths occur among the elderly, the effect of a 5 percent excess mortality or 17 percent increase in cancer mortality would not have a marked effect on the average life span.3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/#)
Much less refined calculations (based on the risk factor estimated by UNSCEAR (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/n/nap940/ddd00330/def-item/ggg00126/), 1.25 × 10-4 per rad) give practically the same increase in cancer risk, namely 4.3 percent excess mortality.
This calculation was made for the oncological effects of local fallout on the population. Other scenarios for other areas would produce different values. However, in view of the generalized character of the assumptions, it seems that there would be no major modifications in the conclusions drawn.
As far as the global fallout is concerned, the estimates have been based on the general assumption of a total bomb yield of 10,000 Mt. The mean effective dose equivalent to the population of the world would be 0.1 Gy per person. The collective dose could be found by multiplying the number of individuals exposed by the mean dose. The distribution of the fission products would be nonuniform and would result in the following doses: bone marrow, 17 rad; bone cells, 19 rad; lung, 16 rad; other sensitive organs, 10 rad.
The risk of cancer according to the ICRP (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/n/nap940/ddd00330/def-item/ggg00054/) data for an individual would be as follows: leukemias 3.5 × 10-4; osteosarcomas, 1.5 × 10-4; lung cancer, 3.0 × 10-4; cancer of other organs, 20.5 × 10-4.
The rate of natural occurrence of cancer in the population of an industrialized country is 15 percent. The global fallout of fission products from blasts of 10,000 Mt would increase the cancer rate in the surviving world population by slightly more than 1 percent.
Chazov and colleagues4 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/#) presented the estimates of late radiation consequences for the population in the form of the expected incidence of malignant tumors developed in various organs and tissues with a fatal outcome. As one can see from Table 3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00046/?report=objectonly), local radioactive fallout can give rise to malignant tumors induced by ionizing radiation that is expected to kill 21 million; of these, approximately 3 million will die of leukemia, 3.6 million of mammary gland cancer, and more than 4.6 million of thyroid gland cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00046/?report=thumb (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00046/?report=objectonly)Table 3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/table/ttt00046/?report=objectonly)Expected Incidence of Malignant Tumors with Fatal Outcome as a Result of the Effect of Local and Tropospheric Fallout.


The risk factors normally used by the ICRP (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/n/nap940/ddd00330/def-item/ggg00054/) are based on fatal cancers only. In view of the reduction in the efficiency of health services to be expected in a postwar world, the inclusion of normally nonfatal cancers might be relevant. This leads to an approximate doubling of the risk, owing mainly to the large contribution from thyroid cancer. Note, however, that if the risk factors are used that include the normally nonfatal component—which might to some extent become fatal under postwar conditions—this is then at variance with the usual definition of effective dose, which refers to the induction of fatal cancer.
In summary, a general nuclear war would presumably expose populations of industrial and densely populated areas around the world to levels not less than 1.0 Gy.3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219166/#) The rest of the world would be exposed to delayed fallout. Based on a total explosive force of 10,000 Mt, survival in the target areas would be about 50 percent. It might be expected that there would be 100 million survivors in each of the target areas of North America, Western Europe, the USSR, and various scattered smaller areas. About 400 million survivors would be irradiated with doses leading to a 17 percent increase of the present cancer incidence, from 15 percent to about 18 percent. This means that about 12 million cases of cancer due to radiation would arise in target areas. In the rest of the world an increase of about 1 percent from 15 percent to about 15.2 percent might lead to some 7 million extra cases. Cancer induction would thus add to the suffering of the postwar world. The general health detriment implicit in such an increase in cancer frequency would, under ordinary circumstances, be regarded as gravely significant.

[MisterVeritis]

Coupla more questions...but first:

What questions did you have?

[Agent Zero]

Oh. I forgot the questions. @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287)

a. If Trump drops a nuke on North Korea, won't it still kill all of South Korea? Does he, or you, care?

b. Regardless, doesn't this shoot your entire made up theory down?

https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8



Radiation has both acute and latent health effects. Acute effects include radiation sickness or death resulting from high doses of radiation (greater than 1 sievert [Sv], or 100 rems) delivered over a few days. The principal latent effect is cancer. Estimates of latent cancer fatalities are based largely on results of the long-term follow-up of the survivors of the atomic bombings in Japan. The results of these studies have been interpreted by the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP)1 (https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8#p2000d6ad8940095001) in terms of a lifetime risk coefficient of 0.05 per sievert (5 × 10−4 per rem), with no threshold.2 (https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8#p2000d6ad8940095002) For the present study, acute radiation effects were estimated by both DTRA and LLNL; latent cancer deaths were estimated only by LLNL.

The computer models used by DTRA and LLNL were developed primarily to estimate effects on military personnel rather than for civilian populations. Thus, there is no consideration of the presumed greater sensitivity to radiation of the very young and the elderly. Also, there is no consideration of the sensitivity of the fetus. From the experience in Japan, it is known that substantial effects on the fetus can occur, and these effects depend on the age (stage of organogenesis) of the fetus.3 (https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8#p2000d6ad8940095003) One such effect is mental retardation. The transfer of radio nuclides to the fetus resulting from their intake by the mother is another pathway of concern. Radiation dose coefficients for this pathway have been published by the ICRP.4 (https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8#p2000d6ad8940097001)
Another long-term health effect that is not considered here is the induction of eye cataracts. This effect has been noted in the Japanese studies and also in a study of the Chernobyl cleanup workers.5 (https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8#p2000d6ad8940097002)
Compared to the fatalities from prompt, acute fallout and latent cancer fatalities, the absolute number of effects on the fetus is small and is captured within the bounds of the uncertainty. The number of eye cataracts, based on the experience of the Chernobyl workers, is not small. The occurrence of eye cataracts in the now aging Japanese population is several tens of percent among those more heavily exposed.
Finally, there has been a recently confirmed finding that the Japanese survivors are experiencing a statistically significant increase in the occurrence of a number of noncancer diseases,6 (https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/8#p2000d6ad8940097003) including hypertension, myocardial infarction, thyroid disease, cataracts, chronic liver disease and cirrhosis, and, in females, uterine myoma. There has been a negative response in the occurrence of glaucoma. A nominal risk coefficient for the seven categories of disease is about 0.9 Sv−1 (0.009 rem−1). The largest fraction of the risk is due to thyroid disease.

Thermal Radiation from Underground Bursts


Thermal radiation may make fire a collateral effect of the use of surface burst, airburst, or shallow-penetrating nuclear weapons. The potential for fire damage depends on the nature of the burst and the surroundings. If there is a fireball, fires will be a direct result of the absorption of thermal radiation. Fires can also result as an indirect effect of the destruction caused by a blast wave, which can, for example, upset stoves and furnaces, rupture gas lines, and so on. A shallow-penetrating nuclear weapon of, say, 100 to 300 kilotons at a 3 to 5 meter depth of burst will generate a substantial fireball that will not fade as fast as the air blast.
Detonation of a nuclear weapon in a forested area virtually guarantees fire damage at ranges greater than the range of air-blast damage. If the burst is in a city environment where buildings are closely spaced, say less than 10 to 15 meters, fires will spread from burning buildings to adjacent ones. In Germany and Japan in World War II, safe separation distance ranged from about 30 to 50 feet (for a 50 percent probability of spread), but for modern urban areas this distance could be larger. This type of damage is less likely to occur in suburban areas where buildings are more widely separated.



Page 75Suggested Citation:"6 Human and Environmental Effects." National Research Council. 2005. Effects of Nuclear Earth-Penetrator and Other Weapons. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. doi: 10.17226/11282.×


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Once started, fire spread continues until the fire runs out of fuel or until the distance to the next source of fuel is too great. Thus, fire caused directly by thermal ignitions, fire caused indirectly by disruptive blast waves, and spread of fire are all potential, but uncertain, effects.


https://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309096731/xhtml/images/p2000d6adg77001.jpg




c. Trump promised to "totally destroy" North Korea; ostensibly by nuclear weapon. That leaves out the MOP, right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlaIl9J14H4

[MisterVeritis]

Oh. I forgot the questions. @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287)
a. If Trump drops a nuke on North Korea, won't it still kill all of South Korea? Does he, or you, care?
No. Not even if we used a hundred weapons or so.

You need to determine your assumptions. I cannot imagine you know how.

You had another question but you failed to ask it.

[Tahuyaman]

It appears that you want a conservative echo chamber.

Can you possibly try participating in threads instead of immaturely dishing out insults and bad faith posts?

Are you a real adult human being?

[Tahuyaman]

Oh. I forgot the questions. @MisterVeritis (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1287)

a. If Trump drops a nuke on North Korea, won't it still kill all of South Korea? Does he, or you, care?



Did all of Japan die when they were nuked twice?

[Kalkin]

.
It appears that you want a liberal echo chamber.
He already has one: his skull. Lots of empty space for the echos to reverberate there.