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Bethere
09-22-2017, 12:57 PM
McCain to vote 'no' on ObamaCare repealThe Hill - 1 min ago

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/351931-mccain-to-vote-no-on-obamacare-repeal&ved=0ahUKEwj09qLyrrnWAhWRwYMKHYqXBW4QqUMILDAC&usg=AFQjCNEpkV04bzYHMAwa06t-5qdlizHkUA

John McCain (http://thehill.com/people/john-mccain) (R-Ariz.) announced on Friday that he will vote against the latest GOP effort to repeal ObamaCare, potentially dooming the legislation.
“I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal. I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried," he said in a statement, referring to the legislation spearheaded by GOP Sens. Lindsey Graham (http://thehill.com/people/lindsey-graham) (S.C) and Bill Cassidy (http://thehill.com/people/bill-cassidy) (La.).

McCain's announcement leaves GOP leadership with no room for error. They need 50 GOP senators to support the legislation and Sen. Rand Paul (http://thehill.com/people/rand-paul) (R-Ky.) has already said he will vote no. Sen. Susan Collins (http://thehill.com/people/susan-collins) (R-Maine) on Friday said she is leaning against the bill.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 12:59 PM
Did anyone expect that fool to actually vote for liberty?

Bethere
09-22-2017, 01:04 PM
Did anyone expect that fool to actually vote for liberty?

I didn't. I thought this was just another futile exercise brought to us by the most dysfunctional Congress in American history.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:09 PM
I didn't. I thought this was just another futile exercise brought to us by the most dysfunctional Congress in American history.

Mcshitstain will be dead soon and obamacare will be repealed next year. For a guy who's so patient about the russian collusion meme, you sure seem impatient about the repeal process.

suds00
09-22-2017, 01:15 PM
Did anyone expect that fool to actually vote for liberty?
that fool will save the republic,despite his health issues!

Bethere
09-22-2017, 01:18 PM
Mcshitstain will be dead soon and obamacare will be repealed next year. For a guy who's so patient about the russian collusion meme, you sure seem impatient about the repeal process.

There would be more than 3 no votes, but they won't bring this to the floor now.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 01:19 PM
that fool will save the republic,despite his health issues!

Amen.

A profile in courage.

Captain Obvious
09-22-2017, 01:25 PM
that fool will save the republic,despite his health issues!

Ironically, the collapse of democracy that we are in the stages of now is because a system where fools run the show is inevitably going to fail at some point.

There is no savior for the republic at this point.

Mark III
09-22-2017, 01:25 PM
Mcshitstain will be dead soon and obamacare will be repealed next year. For a guy who's so patient about the russian collusion meme, you sure seem impatient about the repeal process.


You don't know how this stuff works. Next year is an election year. Pass this idiocy next year and lose the Senate.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:27 PM
that fool will save the republic,despite his health issues!

At least we agree he is a fool.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:30 PM
There would be more than 3 no votes, but they won't bring this to the floor now.

Here's the thing, those of us who have given the repubs the House, Senate, and POTUS will keep increasing our power until it's repealed. It could be next week, next year, or next decade. Obamacare is a shyt law. I know it, you know it, and the american electorate knows it.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 01:30 PM
At least we agree he is a fool.

He was taunting you. Probably it was too subtle.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:31 PM
You don't know how this stuff works. Next year is an election year. Pass this idiocy next year and lose the Senate.

Apparently you don't know how this works, seeing as your party has suffered historic losses for nearly a decade now. Watch and learn, son.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 01:32 PM
Here's the thing, those of us who have given the repubs the House, Senate, and POTUS will keep increasing our power until it's repealed. It could be next week, next year, or next decade. Obamacare is a shyt law. I know it, you know it, and the american electorate knows it.

You are maxed out. Having lost 6 of the last 7 popular votes for president that's clear. Trump got 63 million votes. Romney got 62. McCain got 61. Bush got 63.

See a pattern?

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:35 PM
He was taunting you. Probably it was too subtle.

Who are you, his one-man cheerleading squad? He called mccain a fool. Is English your second language or are you just that bad at it?

Mark III
09-22-2017, 01:37 PM
Apparently you don't know how this works, seeing as your party has suffered historic losses for nearly a decade now. Watch and learn, son.

The public wants Obamacare improved, not repealed. You haven't kept up with the times.

I believe this new GOP bill has 14% approval in the latest poll.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:37 PM
You are maxed out. Having lost 6 of the last 7 popular votes for president that's clear. Trump got 63 million votes. Romney got 62. McCain got 61. Bush got 63.

See a pattern?
The pattern I see is ignorant libtards seem to think the popular vote elects the president. Another obvious pattern is the electorate's systematic rejection of your party. Keep jousting at windmills, though, it's a great sideshow for us as we dismantle obama's legacy.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 01:45 PM
The public wants Obamacare improved, not repealed. You haven't kept up with the times.

I believe this new GOP bill has 14% approval in the latest poll.

Nope, the public wants it repealed. Polls don't mean shyt. If they did, your babe hillary would be POTUS now, wouldn't she? lol.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 02:03 PM
Who are you, his one-man cheerleading squad? He called mccain a fool. Is English your second language or are you just that bad at it?

Lol.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 02:06 PM
The pattern I see is ignorant libtards seem to thing the popular vote elects the president. Another obvious pattern is the electorate's systematic rejection of your party. Keep jousting at windmills, though, it's a great sideshow for us as we dismantle obama's legacy.

Nah, second term presidents pretty much always lose both houses and almost never elect their replacement. It's a historical trend thing.

here's another: first term presidents get slapped around in that first midterm election.

You are fighting history.

Docthehun
09-22-2017, 02:14 PM
It's Mitch taking the heat, John simply stood his ground.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 02:17 PM
It's Mitch taking the heat, John simply stood his ground.
And trump got to triangulate. The freedom caucus got to show how hard they try. Everyone wins except mitch.

The sloop John B probably finds all of this a hilarious excuse to dock by the 19th hole down in west chester.

I'm reasonably confident that he hates paul ryan snd jim jordan as much as the Gifted One doth.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 02:18 PM
Nah, second term presidents pretty much always lose both houses and almost never elect their replacement. It's a historical trend thing.

here's another: first term presidents get slapped around in that first midterm election.

You are fighting history.

Do I need to post that video of everyone who said Trump would never be POTUS? I realize you are trying to keep your spirits up, but we are living in a political era where the usual historic trends are no longer reliable. You may be right, but I wouldn't count on it.

ripmeister
09-22-2017, 02:23 PM
And trump got to triangulate. The freedom caucus got to show how hard they try. Everyone wins except mitch.

The sloop John B probably finds all of this a hilarious excuse to dock by the 19th hole down in west chester.

I'm reasonably confident that he hates paul ryan snd jim jordan as much as the Gifted One doth.

Haven't heard much from the midget lately.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 02:28 PM
Haven't heard much from the midget lately.

Never turn around to see the frowns on the jugglers and clowns when they all do tricks for you.

AZ Jim
09-22-2017, 02:55 PM
Did anyone expect that fool to actually vote for liberty?"The old fool" deserves your respect. He is voting for a bill that will allow an excluded class of Americans the right to help with their medical situation.

AZ Jim
09-22-2017, 02:57 PM
Do I need to post that video of everyone who said Trump would never be POTUS? I realize you are trying to keep your spirits up, but we are living in a political era where the usual historic trends are no longer reliable. You may be right, but I wouldn't count on it. We can count on you being on the wrong side of history.

ripmeister
09-22-2017, 02:57 PM
Its nice to see some integrity for a change. This bill was purely political, an attempt to repeal Obamacare without a well though out replacement plan. Regardless of where you come down on this issue this was an attempt at a quickie that wasn't debated, scored, taken thru committee or anything.

Docthehun
09-22-2017, 03:07 PM
And trump got to triangulate. The freedom caucus got to show how hard they try. Everyone wins except mitch.

The sloop John B probably finds all of this a hilarious excuse to dock by the 19th hole down in west chester.

I'm reasonably confident that he hates paul ryan snd jim jordan as much as the Gifted One doth.

Concur and you can throw my newest buddy, Wayne (I've already forgotten his name!)(Sorry Warren! LOL) on the heap as well.

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 04:22 PM
"The old fool" deserves your respect. He is voting for a bill that will allow an excluded class of Americans the right to help with their medical situation.
He proves there are socialists in both parties. Interestingly, I support McCain's vote but not his reason.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 05:25 PM
Concur and you can throw my newest buddy, Wayne (I've already forgotten his name!)(Sorry Warren! LOL) on the heap as well.

Davidson.

Lol.

Hell, I voted for YOU! Don't let it go to your head though.

I voted for Mickey Mouse last time. Of course, so did you.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 05:27 PM
He proves there are socialists in both parties. Interestingly, I support McCain's vote but not his reason.
@misterveritis
By all means, elucidate.

Cletus
09-22-2017, 05:28 PM
The Senate needs to expel McCain on the grounds of mental incompetence.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 05:30 PM
The Senate needs to expel McCain on the grounds of mental incompetence.

Gosh, the majority of the senate agreed with him . That's the whole point of this thread.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 06:11 PM
"The old fool" deserves your respect.
I didn't call him old and respect is earned. As it stands, that fool has earned my disrespect.

He is voting for a bill that will allow an excluded class of Americans the right to help with their medical situation.
He's not voting for a bill, he's voting against one that would end the anti-liberty personal mandate. Only an entitlement addicted idiot believes people have a right to "help with their medical situation". Who is being forced to provide said help? What about their rights? Fvckem, right? As long as you get your free ride.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 06:13 PM
We can count on you being on the wrong side of history.

There are no "sides of history", but we can count on you posting such unintelligent babble. Next.

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 06:48 PM
@misterveritis
By all means, elucidate.
This goofy plan keeps Obamacare. We did not vote in Republicans to repeal and replace. We voted them in to repeal Obamacare. This plan fails. Let Obamacare die as it will. Repeal it when it dies. Then let the free market be completely free.

suds00
09-22-2017, 06:58 PM
mccain is no foo;

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 07:23 PM
mccain is no foo;
He is evil.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 07:25 PM
This goofy plan keeps Obamacare. We did not vote in Republicans to repeal and replace. We voted them in to repeal Obamacare. This plan fails. Let Obamacare die as it will. Repeal it when it dies. Then let the free market be completely free.

I totally agree, but am willing to take the dissolution of the individual mandate as a starting point. Reagan said something about half a loaf being better than nothing. We can get the rest of the loaf later.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 07:26 PM
mccain is no foo;

Foo; = patriot.

Bethere
09-22-2017, 07:30 PM
This goofy plan keeps Obamacare. We did not vote in Republicans to repeal and replace. We voted them in to repeal Obamacare. This plan fails. Let Obamacare die as it will. Repeal it when it dies. Then let the free market be completely free.

This is a republic. Your elected representatives decided to do nothing instead.

resister
09-22-2017, 07:32 PM
This is a republic. Your elected representatives decided to do nothing instead.
Obama care was designed to fail. Exactly what it is doing!

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 07:47 PM
I totally agree, but am willing to take the dissolution of the individual mandate as a starting point. Reagan said something about half a loaf being better than nothing. We can get the rest of the loaf later.
This bill preserves the socialist loaf. Forever. It is better to have no socialist loaf.

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 07:48 PM
This is a republic. Your elected representatives decided to do nothing instead.
In some cases, action makes tyrannies worse. This vote is such a time.

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 07:49 PM
The Senate needs to expel McCain on the grounds of mental incompetence.
Hmmm. I wonder what would happen if we gave all senators a competency test?

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 07:51 PM
This bill preserves the socialist loaf. Forever. It is better to have no socialist loaf.
Agreed there as well. However, if forced to choose between the individual mandate and no individual mandate, I will choose the latter. Financial reality will eventually kill the socialist loaf regardless, imho.

MisterVeritis
09-22-2017, 07:54 PM
Agreed there as well. However, if forced to choose between the individual mandate and no individual mandate, I will choose the latter. Financial reality will eventually kill the socialist loaf regardless, imho.
Once Republicans begin protecting the socialist provisions it will endure until the collapse.

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 07:59 PM
Once Republicans begin protecting the socialist provisions it will endure until the collapse.
I don't trust republicans to adhere to the limitations set forth by the Constitution any more than I trust the democrats, tbh. Of course, my first choice would be a straight repeal with no replace, but the flimsy repubs gave up that fight before they even entered the ring.

suds00
09-22-2017, 08:43 PM
nobody's fool.the senate will follow"normal" procedures.

suds00
09-22-2017, 08:46 PM
I totally agree, but am willing to take the dissolution of the individual mandate as a starting point. Reagan said something about half a loaf being better than nothing. We can get the rest of the loaf later.
ya think

Kalkin
09-22-2017, 09:13 PM
ya think

Exceptionally well, actually.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 12:52 PM
Obama care was designed to fail. Exactly what it is doing!

You guys keep repeating that claim, can you explain it?

Peter1469
09-23-2017, 01:18 PM
They are wasting their time. Move on to tax reform.

O-care will fail. Then people will make their congress-critters vote.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 02:17 PM
that fool will save the republic,despite his health issues!

So, maintaining a law which takes away more of your individual rights and gives more authority to government is saving the republic?

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 02:18 PM
You guys keep repeating that claim, can you explain it?

It was designed to fail. It was intended to fail so the only solution is a complete government take over. I don't know why you would deny this.

MisterVeritis
09-23-2017, 02:29 PM
@misterveritis
@misterveritis
By all means, elucidate.
Ah, I see what you did there. I am not as devious as you. I may never be.

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 02:47 PM
John McCain literally has a degenerative brain disease. It is unconscionable to leave him in a position of power and authority.

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 02:49 PM
A profile in courage.

Tell that to the innocent Iraqis whose country he helped to destroy.

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 02:51 PM
See a pattern?

There is no "popular vote". There is only the electoral college. One day, Democrats will learn to accept this fact.

resister
09-23-2017, 02:54 PM
You guys keep repeating that claim, can you explain it?
You have not noticed premiums soaring and providers pulling out of states, nation wide? Don't know about you, but I see that as a rapidly failing system.

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 02:55 PM
The public wants Obamacare improved, not repealed. You haven't kept up with the times.

I believe this new GOP bill has 14% approval in the latest poll.

The public never wanted Obamacare in the first place. Democrats just rammed it down the country's throat during an anomalous window in the two-year election cycle. But I will countenance "improvement" of Obamacare, so long as that means the tyrannical and outrageous "individual mandate" goes away forever. FORCING Americans to buy a product from a private corporation is arguably one of the worst policies EVER.

resister
09-23-2017, 02:56 PM
Ah, I see what you did there. I am not as devious as you. I may never be.
I keep trying to tell him, the white letters, show up in the blue, quote box.:rollseyes:

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 02:57 PM
"The old fool" deserves your respect. He is voting for a bill that will allow an excluded class of Americans the right to help with their medical situation.

He is voting for big government socialism, which deserves nothing but contempt.

Adelaide
09-23-2017, 02:59 PM
John McCain literally has a degenerative brain disease. It is unconscionable to leave him in a position of power and authority.

Not necessarily. We do not have his medical files. Glioblastomas differ greatly depending on location, how aggressive they are, and how they respond to chemotherapy/radiation. Hypothetically, he may experience symptoms like muscle weakness or tremors or trouble speaking or blindness before his actual mental capacities and cognitive function would be jeopardized. There are a lot of factors to consider, and we don't know much about the specifics of his case.

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 03:01 PM
This is a republic.

Perhaps it used to be, until Marxists like you got your hands on it.

Ethereal
09-23-2017, 03:03 PM
Not necessarily. We do not have his medical files. Glioblastomas differ greatly depending on location, how aggressive they are, and how they respond to chemotherapy/radiation. Hypothetically, he may experience symptoms like muscle weakness or tremors or trouble speaking or blindness before his actual mental capacities and cognitive function would be jeopardized. There are a lot of factors to consider, and we don't know much about the specifics of his case.

I saw enough when he was babbling incoherently during an official Senate inquiry. Of course, McCain has been insane most of his adult life, so it's not much of a departure from his past behavior. It's just more pronounced.

NapRover
09-23-2017, 03:18 PM
John McCain literally has a degenerative brain disease. It is unconscionable to leave him in a position of power and authority.
There is something evil about him. Ashamed that I voted for him.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 03:55 PM
You have not noticed premiums soaring and providers pulling out of states, nation wide? Don't know about you, but I see that as a rapidly failing system.

And that was accurately predicted. Obama and the Democrats were counting on it. Obama himself said that the ACA was the first step toward a complete government take over.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 03:57 PM
There is something evil about him. Ashamed that I voted for him. I don't think evil is the right word to use. He's not evil. He's misguided and craves the adoration of the liberal media.

resister
09-23-2017, 04:06 PM
And that was accurately predicted. Obama and the Democrats were counting on it. Obama himself said that the ACA was the first step toward a complete government take over.
Amen, but..but 52% of Americans think it's great! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the 52% have not had to seek health care lately.

My wife is currently in a physical rehab facility 26 miles away and there is a perfectly fine one a 10 minute bike ride away.

Why, you may ask? Why, insurance, of course!

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 04:09 PM
Amen, but..but 52% of Americans think it's great! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the 52% have not had to seek health care lately.

My wife is currently in a physical rehab facility 26 miles away and there is a perfectly fine one a 10 minute bike ride away.

Why, you may ask? Why, insurance, of course!

I believe that 52% number is fiction.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 04:19 PM
It was designed to fail. It was intended to fail so the only solution is a complete government take over. I don't know why you would deny this.
That is not an answer.

In what way is it designed to fail. Please point out the things in the Bill that were put there to make it fail.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 04:24 PM
You have not noticed premiums soaring and providers pulling out of states, nation wide? Don't know about you, but I see that as a rapidly failing system.

Those are republican actions, not because of the bill. Insurers are pulling out of the market because republicans killed the risk corridor, premiums are going up because of the uncertainty generated by trump.

Try again please. Which things in the Bill were put there to cause it to fail?

Cletus
09-23-2017, 06:12 PM
Not necessarily. We do not have his medical files. Glioblastomas differ greatly depending on location, how aggressive they are, and how they respond to chemotherapy/radiation. Hypothetically, he may experience symptoms like muscle weakness or tremors or trouble speaking or blindness before his actual mental capacities and cognitive function would be jeopardized. There are a lot of factors to consider, and we don't know much about the specifics of his case.

McCain's cognitive function has been impaired for decades. The guy is a drooling idiot. The people in his home state who keep sending him back to the Senate do it just to keep him from going back to Arizona.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 07:32 PM
That is not an answer.

In what way is it designed to fail. Please point out the things in the Bill that were put there to make it fail.


Have you been paying attention to the insurers backing out of the program and the rising premiums and deductibles. All of that was built into the program and expected to happen. It was sold to you on a lie. Obama and the Democrats played people like you for a fool.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 07:36 PM
You have not noticed premiums soaring and providers pulling out of states, nation wide? Don't know about you, but I see that as a rapidly failing system.


Those are republican actions, not because of the bill. Insurers are pulling out of the market because republicans killed the risk corridor, premiums are going up because of the uncertainty generated by trump.

Try again please. Which things in the Bill were put there to cause it to fail?


Aren't you embarrassed about being exposed as a complete partisan hack? Premiums and deductibles were rising dramatically before Trump announced his candidacy.

As is typical, a liberal blames those who opposed their policies for the failure of those policies. For some reason, they can never take responsibility for their continual failures. It's sadly incredible.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 07:47 PM
Have you been paying attention to the insurers backing out of the program and the rising premiums and deductibles. All of that was built into the program and expected to happen. It was sold to you on a lie. Obama and the Democrats played people like you for a fool.

I've already addressed that, do try to keep up.

resister
09-23-2017, 07:53 PM
Those are republican actions, not because of the bill. Insurers are pulling out of the market because republicans killed the risk corridor, premiums are going up because of the uncertainty generated by trump.

Try again please. Which things in the Bill were put there to cause it to fail?
HA HA, this was happening long before Trump!

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 07:54 PM
Aren't you embarrassed about being exposed as a complete partisan hack? Premiums and deductibles were rising dramatically before Trump announced his candidacy.

As is typical, a liberal blames those who opposed their policies for the failure of those policies. For some reason, they can never take responsibility for their continual failures. It's sadly incredible.

Trump introduced more instability, not all of the instability. The risk corridor was killed in 2014. Other republican efforts have been going on even longer.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 07:57 PM
Trump introduced more instability, not all of the instability. The risk corridor was killed in 2014. Other republican efforts have been going on even longer.

The ACA was swirling the bowl long before Trump came on the political scene. You're losing even more credibilty by trying to argue against that.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 07:59 PM
I've already addressed that, do try to keep up.. I've already addressed and clearly exposed your blind partisan position. You should be embarrassed, but that emotion is beyond most partisan hacks.

barb012
09-23-2017, 08:07 PM
This is a dog and pony show so Republicans can say they tried.

MisterVeritis
09-23-2017, 08:12 PM
This is a dog and pony show so Republicans can say they tried.
Try is still fail. Republicans will lose primaries over this.

The Xl
09-23-2017, 08:15 PM
McCain has never been a conservative, this shouldn't surprise anyone.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 08:40 PM
HA HA, this was happening long before Trump!

Yes, the republicans have been attempting to sabotage the ACA since 5 minutes after it was signed.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 08:41 PM
The ACA was swirling the bowl long before Trump came on the political scene. You're losing even more credibilty by trying to argue against that.

Read what I post, not what you wish I had posted.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 08:42 PM
. I've already addressed and clearly exposed your blind partisan position. You should be embarrassed, but that emotion is beyond most partisan hacks.

Nonsequitor.

Care to address the subject?

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 08:43 PM
This is a dog and pony show so Republicans can say they tried.

For the 50th time.....

resister
09-23-2017, 08:44 PM
Yes, the republicans have been attempting to sabotage the ACA since 5 minutes after it was signed.
LOL, try to keep up, Obama was not a Republican! It was rammed down America's throat and Republicans had nothing to do with it.

Care to tell us why it was failing right away, years before trump Crepitus ?

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 08:46 PM
LOL, try to keep up, Obama was not a Republican! It was rammed down America's throat and Republicans had nothing to do with it.

Care to tell us why it was failing right away, years before trump Crepitus ?

Deliberately twisting what I say doesn't change the truth of my statement.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 08:47 PM
Care to tell us why it was failing right away, years before trump Crepitus ?

It wasn't.

resister
09-23-2017, 08:58 PM
Deliberately twisting what I say doesn't change the truth of my statement.
That's nice, your obvious deflection, failed to address any of my valid points. Just tell me if you don't care to address the topic!

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 09:41 PM
Read what I post, not what you wish I had posted.

Your posts don't represent reality. Only a complete partisan hack would blame Trump for the failures of the ACA.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 09:41 PM
It wasn't.

Reality is lost on you.

resister
09-23-2017, 09:43 PM
It wasn't.
Stunning rebuttal and a zero answer!

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 09:47 PM
Your posts don't represent reality. Only a complete partisan hack would blame Trump for the failures of the ACA.

Your posts are not responses, they are unrelated to the post you are quoting. Are you having trouble?

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 09:48 PM
Reality is lost on you.

Ignoring the facts doesn't change them.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 09:49 PM
Stunning rebuttal and a zero answer!

It is a direct answer to a direct question. What more do you want ?

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 09:53 PM
Your posts are not responses, they are unrelated to the post you are quoting. Are you having trouble?

Seriously. Are you sticking with the position that the ACA was on solid ground and a success prior to Trump's inaguration?

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 09:54 PM
Ignoring the facts doesn't change them. Then why do you keep doing that?

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 10:08 PM
I don't know how anyone could claim that the ACA was a success prior to the election of Trump. It's explicable.

Crepitus
09-23-2017, 10:32 PM
Seriously. Are you sticking with the position that the ACA was on solid ground and a success prior to Trump's inaguration?

No, I never said that. As previously stated, read what I post not what you wish I had posted.

Tahuyaman
09-23-2017, 11:36 PM
No, I never said that. As previously stated, read what I post not what you wish I had posted.

you said it was a success and doing well prior to the election of Trump

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 01:12 AM
you said it was a success and doing well prior to the election of Trump

And you are not telling the truth, either that or you haven't read the thread.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 11:46 AM
Care to tell us why it was failing right away, years before trump @Crepitus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1345) ?


It wasn't.

But it was. There's no factual rebuttal to that.

It was a screaming failure out of the gate and it never got better.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 12:06 PM
Yes, the republicans have been attempting to sabotage the ACA since 5 minutes after it was signed.

Which is entirely reasonable and expected given that most of the country did not want Obamacare in the first place.

Democrats do things without thinking and then act shocked when actual consequences arise.

Did you really expect the country to go along with your partisan schemes without any resistance?

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 12:06 PM
But it was. There's no factual rebuttal to that.

It was a screaming failure out of the gate and it never got better.

No sir it was not. Republican sabotage in the form of Republican governors refusing to set up exchanges and expand medicare started from day one.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 12:10 PM
No sir it was not. Republican sabotage in the form of Republican governors refusing to set up exchanges and expand medicare started from day one.

In other words, it's not the fault of Democrats for ramming a partisan piece of legislation down the country's throat, it's the Republican's fault for not letting Democrats do whatever they want however they want.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 12:13 PM
Why would you expect any cooperation from opponents of Obamacare when they were vehemently opposed to Obamacare from the very beginning?

Just because Democrats managed to ram it through does not suddenly mean opponents of Obamacare are obliged to help it along. Only a Democrat could think in such a foolish way.

Democrats rammed this through, they did so despite the vehement objections of half the electorate, and now they refuse to take responsibility, just like they always do whenever their policies fail.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 12:16 PM
In other words, it's not the fault of Democrats for ramming a partisan piece of legislation down the country's throat, it's the Republican's fault for not letting Democrats do whatever they want however they want.

You can look at that however you want, however you can't call the failure of a plan you refuse to implement the fault of the plan or the people that designed it.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 12:19 PM
No sir it was not. Republican sabotage in the form of Republican governors refusing to set up exchanges and expand medicare started from day one.

Republicans did not sabotage anything. Republicans didn't force people to enroll, then fail to pay premiums. Republicans didn't sabotage that web site fiasco. Republicans didn't force insurers to pull out of the market during Obama's tenure as president.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 12:21 PM
You can look at that however you want, however you can't call the failure of a plan you refuse to implement the fault of the plan or the people that designed it.
Of course you can.

A plan that fails to consider reality is a bad plan.

Democrats passed Obamacare operating under the false assumption that its opponents would magically hop on board with it. That is THEIR failure and no one else's.

If you're going to try to reform the healthcare for 320 million people, then you have to craft a plan that has a broad consensus among the population. Democrats failed to do this and now they're dealing with the consequences. Yet they refuse to take responsibility, just like they always do.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 12:23 PM
Republicans did not sabotage anything. Republicans didn't force people to enroll, then fail to pay premiums. Republicans didn't sabotage that web site fiasco. Republicans didn't force insurers to pull out of the market during Obama's tenure as president.

Actually yes, they did all of those things except make people not pay their premiums.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 12:25 PM
Of course you can.

A plan that fails to consider reality is a bad plan.

Democrats passed Obamacare operating under the false assumption that its opponents would magically hop on board with it. That is THEIR failure and no one else's.

If you're going to try to reform the healthcare for 320 million people, then you have to craft a plan that has a broad consensus among the population. Democrats failed to do this and now they're dealing with the consequences. Yet they refuse to take responsibility, just like they always do.

Wrong. Republicans are responsible for the difficulty in the ACA right now. And in spite of that it still isn't failing.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 12:30 PM
Wrong. Republicans are responsible for the difficulty in the ACA right now. And in spite of that it still isn't failing.

How are Republicans responsible for Democrats passing a bad plan?

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 01:02 PM
How are Republicans responsible for Democrats passing a bad plan?

Perfect? No.

Better than doing nothing? Yes.

Sabotaged by republicans at every turn in every way from pulling funding to loud lies in tv ads? Hell yes.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 01:03 PM
Perfect? No.

Better than doing nothing? Yes.

Sabotaged by republicans at every turn in every way from pulling funding to loud lies in tv ads? Hell yes.
You didn't answer the question.

How are Republicans responsible for Democrats passing a bad plan?

Or do you actually believe a plan that half the electorate vehemently opposes is somehow a good plan?

Do you deny the crucial importance of consensus in the context of an ostensibly democratic process?

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 01:09 PM
You didn't answer the question.

How are Republicans responsible for Democrats passing a bad plan?

Or do you actually believe a plan that half the electorate vehemently opposes is somehow a good plan?

Do you deny the crucial importance of consensus in the context of an ostensibly democratic process?

I believe that the portion of the electorate that opposed the plan did it for reasons unrelated to the plan itself.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 01:15 PM
I believe that the portion of the electorate that opposed the plan did it for reasons unrelated to the plan itself.
What a conceited and anti-democratic thing to say. But let's assume for the sake of argument that's true, it does not change the fact that they opposed it vehemently. Yet Democrats pushed it through anyway, which makes them responsible and no one else.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 01:18 PM
Democrat logic: If only reality were as we wished it to be and not as it is, then Obamacare would be a smashing success!

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 01:51 PM
Doing nothing is preferable to making things worse.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 02:11 PM
What a conceited and anti-democratic thing to say. But let's assume for the sake of argument that's true, it does not change the fact that they opposed it vehemently. Yet Democrats pushed it through anyway, which makes them responsible and no one else.

Neither conceited nor anti-democratic, but true.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 05:21 PM
Wrong. Republicans are responsible for the difficulty in the ACA right now. And in spite of that it still isn't failing.
No. They had nothing to do with the ad-hoc crafting of the law, nor did they have anything to do with other implementing the law. The only thing they are responsible for is not having the balls to live up to the promise they made to get elected.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 05:32 PM
Neither conceited nor anti-democratic, but true.
You're basically saying that half the electorate is incapable of arriving at informed decisions and that you are somehow in a better position than they are to know what's best for them. So, yes, it is incredibly conceited and anti-democratic. But even if what you say is true, it still does not change the fact that Democrats passed a law that at least half the electorate did not want, which makes it a bad law by definition. Trying to blame Republicans for something Democrats did is delusional.

Bethere
09-24-2017, 05:37 PM
You're basically saying that half the electorate is incapable of arriving at informed decisions and that you are somehow in a better position than they are to know what's best for them. So, yes, it is incredibly conceited and anti-democratic. But even if what you say is true, it still does not change the fact that Democrats passed a law that at least half the electorate did not want, which makes it a bad law by definition. Trying to blame Republicans for something Democrats did is delusional.

No, the markets were stabilizing. Trump introduced funding uncertainty intentionally to destabilize them. Certainly, this is the opinion of the insurance industry themselves.

Study: ObamaCare market 'stabilizing,' not collapsing | TheHill

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/341249-study-obamacare-market-stabilizing-not-collapsing&ved=0ahUKEwjR4ZbU8b7WAhXIKWMKHex4CjkQFggkMAA&usg=AFQjCNHMqtcg2JvgwGmeNtbYY5qnFxcXyQ

The Obamacare Marketplaces Aren't In A Death Spiral | FiveThirtyEight

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-obamacare-marketplaces-arent-in-a-death-spiral/&ved=0ahUKEwiKsu698r7WAhVK8mMKHZgMBj0QFgg3MAI&usg=AFQjCNF_CDIrQLyGsq7dzlS9mi-_Y6QQxw

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 05:45 PM
No. They had nothing to do with the ad-hoc crafting of the law, nor did they have anything to do with other implementing the law. The only thing they are responsible for is not having the balls to live up to the promise they made to get elected.

And sabotage of the law.

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 05:47 PM
No, the markets were stabilizing. Trump introduced funding uncertainty intentionally to destabilize them. Certainly, this is the opinion of the insurance industry themselves.

Study: ObamaCare market 'stabilizing,' not collapsing | TheHill

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/341249-study-obamacare-market-stabilizing-not-collapsing&ved=0ahUKEwjR4ZbU8b7WAhXIKWMKHex4CjkQFggkMAA&usg=AFQjCNHMqtcg2JvgwGmeNtbYY5qnFxcXyQ

The Obamacare Marketplaces Aren't In A Death Spiral | FiveThirtyEight

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-obamacare-marketplaces-arent-in-a-death-spiral/&ved=0ahUKEwiKsu698r7WAhVK8mMKHZgMBj0QFgg3MAI&usg=AFQjCNF_CDIrQLyGsq7dzlS9mi-_Y6QQxw
Trump is simply doing what people elected him to do: Oppose Obamacare.

Democrats seem to believe they can do anything they want and that everyone must submit to their whims. I have no idea why they believe this.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 05:50 PM
You're basically saying that half the electorate is incapable of arriving at informed decisions and that you are somehow in a better position than they are to know what's best for them. So, yes, it is incredibly conceited and anti-democratic. But even if what you say is true, it still does not change the fact that Democrats passed a law that at least half the electorate did not want, which makes it a bad law by definition. Trying to blame Republicans for something Democrats did is delusional.

Because it passed on partisan lines? Don't most laws? If the republicans could get their shit together isn't that how they would repeal it? Wouldn't that be "conceited and anti-democratic" since more than half the electorate now approves of the law?

Ethereal
09-24-2017, 05:58 PM
Because it passed on partisan lines?

Obviously, yes. Democrats rammed it down half the country's throat. That is a bad way to pass a law, especially when that law concerns something as important as healthcare. The expectation that people would magically cooperate with a law they openly despised is preposterous.


Don't most laws?

I have no idea. In any case, appeals to tradition do not serve to justify the practice.


If the republicans could get their $#@! together isn't that how they would repeal it? Wouldn't that be "conceited and anti-democratic" since more than half the electorate now approves of the law?

It would be conceited and anti-democratic if they treated opposition to repeal like the product of collective stupidity and irrationality the way you treat opposition to passage.

Most Democrats support Obamacare because they perceive the law to be in their rational self-interest. Who am I to question their judgement? They obviously know their own situation better than I do.

Either way, repealing Obamacare would merely put the US government in a position to pass something that had a broad consensus among Americans, so I fail to see how that would be anti-democratic in and of itself. In fact, that is how functional democracy ought to work.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 06:32 PM
Obviously, yes. Democrats rammed it down half the country's throat. That is a bad way to pass a law, especially when that law concerns something as important as healthcare. The expectation that people would magically cooperate with a law they openly despised is preposterous.



I have no idea. In any case, appeals to tradition do not serve to justify the practice.



It would be conceited and anti-democratic if they treated opposition to repeal like the product of collective stupidity and irrationality the way you treat opposition to passage.

Most Democrats support Obamacare because they perceive the law to be in their rational self-interest. Who am I to question their judgement? They obviously know their own situation better than I do.

Either way, repealing Obamacare would merely put the US government in a position to pass something that had a broad consensus among Americans, so I fail to see how that would be anti-democratic in and of itself. In fact, that is how functional democracy ought to work.

Surely you are joking.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 08:17 PM
And sabotage of the law. Obama and the Democrats sabotaged the law when they created it. Don't blame those who opposed your policies for the failure of those policies. Man up and admit your failures.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 08:20 PM
Obama and the Democrats sabotaged the law when they created it. Don't blame those who opposed your policies for the failure of those policies. Man up and admit your failures.

So, what specifically in the law was designed to make it fail?

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 08:46 PM
So, what specifically in the law was designed to make it fail?
C'mon. Quit being a partisan hack.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 09:11 PM
C'mon. Quit being a partisan hack.

I could say the same to you. Your oft repeated talking point has never been explained or backed up. Would you like to do so?

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 09:29 PM
I could say the same to you. Your oft repeated talking point has never been explained or backed up. Would you like to do so?. Where have I shown to be a partisan hack? Give me just one example. Maybe you'll cite all of the times I've said that the Republicans are spineless and not fit to lead?

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 09:56 PM
. Where have I shown to be a partisan hack? Give me just one example. Maybe you'll cite all of the times I've said that the Republicans are spineless and not fit to lead?

You are trying to change the subject. Would you like to explain the "designed to fail" comment?

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 10:33 PM
You are trying to change the subject. Would you like to explain the "designed to fail" comment?

It's been explained. You're just a partisan hack and refuse to accept it. You're dismissed.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2017, 10:35 PM
The Senate needs to expel McCain on the grounds of mental incompetence.


He's been consistent for the last decade. Why the people of Arizone keep reelecting him is a mystery.

Crepitus
09-24-2017, 11:10 PM
It's been explained. You're just a partisan hack and refuse to accept it. You're dismissed.

Lol, so you can't explain it either.

But I'm thrilled one who's "dismissed".

LMFAO!!!!

resister
09-24-2017, 11:32 PM
Lol, so you can't explain it either.

But I'm thrilled one who's "dismissed".

LMFAO!!!!
I know, you will repeat the meme that Republicans sabotaged it. It was passed how many years ago? It has gone downhill from day one!

Crepitus
09-25-2017, 12:39 AM
I know, you will repeat the meme that Republicans sabotaged it. It was passed how many years ago? It has gone downhill from day one!

It was being deliberately sabotaged from day one.

stjames1_53
09-25-2017, 05:18 AM
It was being deliberately sabotaged from day one.

it should have never been, to begin with

stjames1_53
09-25-2017, 05:25 AM
Obamacare rule inserted by Big Pharma drives up cost of drugs at rural hospitals
https://personalliberty.com/obamacare-rule-inserted-big-pharma-drives-cost-drugs-rural-hospitals/

another reason rural hospitals are failing under Obamacare...........

Bethere
09-25-2017, 05:32 AM
It was being deliberately sabotaged from day one.

The ability to deny medicaid expansion hurt.

stjames1_53
09-25-2017, 05:34 AM
You are trying to change the subject. Would you like to explain the "designed to fail" comment?

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/10/7/13191250/obamacare-exchanges-crisis-arrogant-progressives
Obama Adviser Jonathan Gruber In 2009: Obamacare Will NOT Be Affordable
http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/30/obama-adviser-jonathan-gruber-in-2009-obamacare-will-not-be-affordable/

Gruber Proves Obamacare Was Built by Elites for ‘Stupid People’
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/11/13/MIT-Prof-Proves-Obamacare-Was-Built-Elites-Stupid-People

Crepitus
09-25-2017, 07:15 AM
The ability to deny medicaid expansion hurt.

Refusal to set up their own exchanges did too.

Crepitus
09-25-2017, 07:17 AM
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/10/7/13191250/obamacare-exchanges-crisis-arrogant-progressives
Obama Adviser Jonathan Gruber In 2009: Obamacare Will NOT Be Affordable
http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/30/obama-adviser-jonathan-gruber-in-2009-obamacare-will-not-be-affordable/

Gruber Proves Obamacare Was Built by Elites for ‘Stupid People’
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/11/13/MIT-Prof-Proves-Obamacare-Was-Built-Elites-Stupid-People

Wonk wonk wonk. Posting links to right leaning sites that repeat your talking point doesn't answer my question.

Tahuyaman
09-25-2017, 08:27 AM
Liberal Democrats on their own created and implemented a complete failure. Now they want to blame those who opposed it. Liberals want to live in a world where they receive no opposition. They view the nation as a social experimentation laboratory.

Bethere
09-25-2017, 11:55 AM
Refusal to set up their own exchanges did too.

Yep. Sabotage.

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 11:57 AM
I know, you will repeat the meme that Republicans sabotaged it. It was passed how many years ago? It has gone downhill from day one!

Even if the repubs did sabotage it, how did they get the political power to do so? Oh yeah, they ran for office vowing to do so and won elections.

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 11:59 AM
The ability to deny medicaid expansion hurt.

Freedom of choice often hurts those who wish to be dictators.

Bethere
09-25-2017, 12:34 PM
Freedom of choice often hurts those who wish to be dictators.

I can only speculate why Republicans oppose freedom of choice in healthcare. You'd have to ask them for a definitive answer.

Obama had reason to believe that Republicans would like a system where private policies were written by independent companies and traded on an open market where they had to disclose prices and services rendered.

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 12:39 PM
I can only speculate why Republicans oppose freedom of choice in healthcare. You'd have to ask them for a definitive answer.
You're confusing republican with democrats. Which party is trying to end the individual mandate?

Bethere
09-25-2017, 12:41 PM
You're confusing republican with democrats. Which party is trying to end the individual mandate?

Neither. If the gop wanted the individual mandate gone it would be gone.

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 12:49 PM
Neither. If the gop wanted the individual mandate gone it would be gone.

Incorrect. First, Trump has already done what is within his power to defang the mandate. Why didn't obama do that? Second, every bill the repubs have put up ends the mandates, and is universally opposed by democrats (and 2-3 repubs). You are being intellectually dishonest to suggest that repubs are the champions of the mandate. Why do you do this? Because you're a liberal and liberals need to lie to hide their true agenda. Alinski 101: accuse your adversary of doing what you are actually doing to create chaos.

Bethere
09-25-2017, 12:52 PM
Incorrect. First, Trump has already done what is within his power to defang the mandate. Why didn't obama do that? Second, every bill the repubs have put up ends the mandates, and is universally opposed by democrats (and 2-3 repubs). You are being intellectually dishonest to suggest that repubs are the champions of the mandate. Why do you do this? Because you're a liberal and liberals need to lie to hide their true agenda. Alinski 101: accuse your adversary of doing what you are actually doing to create chaos.

You control the house. You control the Senate. You control the presidency. You control the supreme court.

If you wanted the individual mandate gone then no one could stop you.

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 12:57 PM
You control the house. You control the Senate. You control the presidency. You control the supreme court.

If you wanted the individual mandate gone then no one could stop you.

Do you have comprehension issues? The vast majority of repubs are onboard with killing the mandates. The vast majority of democrats are not. It'll take a few more seats in the Senate to get it done. Those seats will need to be filled by republicans, not democrats. Basically, your entire point is that the repubs are not marching 100% in lockstep with each other, unlike the dems, who are universally supporting the mandates. Your wormy argument is just that, wormy.

Bethere
09-25-2017, 01:01 PM
Do you have comprehension issues? The vast majority of repubs are onboard with killing the mandates. The vast majority of democrats are not. It'll take a few more seats in the Senate to get it done. Those seats will need to be filled by republicans, not democrats. Basically, your entire point is that the repubs are not marching 100% in lockstep with each other, unlike the dems, who are universally supporting the mandates. Your wormy argument is just that, wormy.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/pence-tie-breaking-senate-record-setting-pace/index.html

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 01:05 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/pence-tie-breaking-senate-record-setting-pace/index.html
A non-response from you. Quelle surprise. It actually supports my contention.
The repubs will take more seats in 2018. The continued idiocy of the left pretty much guarantees it. Then your precious marxist scam will be undone. Get your gravy while you still can, my needy friend.

Bethere
09-25-2017, 04:40 PM
A non-response from you. Quelle surprise. It actually supports my contention.
The repubs will take more seats in 2018. The continued idiocy of the left pretty much guarantees it. Then your precious marxist scam will be undone. Get your gravy while you still can, my needy friend.

History shows that the party with a new president gets pounded in the first midterm election following.

Just ask Obama, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Reagan, Carter...

Kalkin
09-25-2017, 07:03 PM
History shows that the party with a new president gets pounded in the first midterm election following.

Just ask Obama, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Reagan, Carter...
History often does repeat itself. Sometimes it does not. I believe it will not this time, especially if the left continues its unrelenting push for PC marxism.

Bethere
09-25-2017, 11:37 PM
History often does repeat itself. Sometimes it does not. I believe it will not this time, especially if the left continues its unrelenting push for PC marxism.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Kalkin
09-26-2017, 12:55 AM
You are entitled to your opinion.

I'm entitled to nothing. I've earned my opinion through life experience, logical thought, and perceptive observation.