Should Wonder Woman Be Bisexual?

[IMPress Polly]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-queer-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:


The majority of the LGBTQ+ community identifies as bisexual or as having attraction to more than one gender, and yet it is the least understood of any identity. We are oversexualized and underrepresented. We are called greedy, dishonest, and confused. We are the least likely to come out and the most likely to suffer from depression and anxiety, on top of experiencing higher rates of sexual/intimate partner violence (https://www.glaad.org/blog/glaad-releases-new-guide-reporting-bisexual-community). We are made to feel invisible and in doing so we begin to see ourselves as invisible. Making Wonder Woman canonically bisexual on the big screen would make her the first openly LGBTQ superhero of any gender from either DC or Marvel's cinematic universes, and would solidify her place as a true role model for women of all ages and identities.

[Cletus]

Really?

That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.

[IMPress Polly]

In what way, Cletus?

[resister]

Really?

That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.
I agree, stop indoctrinating our youth!

[Kalkin]

Should Wonder Woman Be Bisexual?


Hell yes.

20152

[Green Arrow]

It would be more true to the character, so yeah, I'd be cool with that.

[IMPress Polly]

resister wrote:
I agree, stop indoctrinating our youth!

Your youth are the ones demanding this change.

[Green Arrow]

I agree, stop indoctrinating our youth!

It's not indoctrination :rollseyes:

[The Xl]

If it's being faithful to the comic, then Sure, why not?

[Perianne]

Your youth are the ones demanding this change.

5,700 are not a true picture of our youth. Maybe the troubled ones, but not anywhere near the majority.

[resister]

Your youth are the ones demanding this change.
I'm sure small children are, lol:rollseyes:

[IMPress Polly]

Perianne wrote:
5,700 are not a true picture of our youth. Maybe the troubled ones, but not anywhere near the majority.

Well obviously not, but my point was that it's younger people who are spearheading this effort.

I guess I also just don't understand what's so wrong with bisexual people having representation in our media. It's not like they don't exist in the real world!

[Bethere]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-$#@!-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:

She's an amazon.

[Green Arrow]

I'm sure small children are, lol:rollseyes:

Neither the movies nor the comics are meant for little kids.

[Perianne]

Well obviously not, but my point was that it's younger people who are spearheading this effort.

I guess I also just don't understand what's so wrong with bisexual people having representation in our media. It's not like they don't exist in the real world!
Why not make Wonder Woman a National Socialist? It's not like they don't exist in the real world! Why can't they have positive representation in our media? It's unfair that they are only shown as racists when in fact many of them are good people who just have an agenda that is off the main path.

[IMPress Polly]

Perianne wrote:
Why not make Wonder Woman a National Socialist? It's not like they don't exist in the real world! Why can't they have positive representation in our media? It's unfair that they are only shown as racists when in fact many of them are good people who just have an agenda that is off the main path.

Yes. Being bisexual is EXACTLY the same as orchestrating the Holocaust. And furthermore, Nazism is SO in-character for Wonder Woman. I can absolutely see your point! :rollseyes:

[Captain Obvious]

Why would (or should) it matter?

I thought it was bigotry to identify people by sexual orientation or is this another double standard?

Loaded question.

[IMPress Polly]

Bethere wrote:
She's an amazon.

Well let's be fair now. It appears that she will be morphing into a Smurfette in the upcoming Justice League movie. :wink:

[Chris]

Why not make Wonder Woman a National Socialist? It's not like they don't exist in the real world! Why can't they have positive representation in our media? It's unfair that they are only shown as racists when in fact many of them are good people who just have an agenda that is off the main path.

WW a socialist, OMG!

[IMPress Polly]

Captain Obvious wrote:
Why would (or should) it matter?

The petition itself, which I've linked to in the OP, lays out why it matters to many people.



I thought it was bigotry to identify people by sexual orientation or is this another double standard?

Whaaaa?

[nathanbforrest45]

Wonder Women should be exactly what she is, a cartoon character with no sexuality whatsoever.

She isn't real, she was never real.

What next? Make Santa Claus a pedophile for hanging around with all those little people at the North Pole?

[Captain Obvious]

The petition itself, which I've linked to in the OP, lays out why it matters to many people.



Whaaaa?

If I hire an employee because he is white over a minority that is bigotry.

How is prefering a bi over a hetero different?

Loaded question, it's not.

For the record, identity entertainment is junk. When I smell agenda I walk out of the theater.

[nathanbforrest45]

Yes. Being bisexual is EXACTLY the same as orchestrating the Holocaust. And furthermore, Nazism is SO in-character for Wonder Woman. I can absolutely see your point! :rollseyes:
No you can't see the point. Liberals can't see beyond their own prejudices and egos.

Think about what was said before you pop off and sound extremely stupid next time.

[IMPress Polly]

Nathan wrote:
What next? Make Santa Claus a pedophile for hanging around with all those little people at the North Pole?

Because yes, being bisexual is exactly the same as being a sexual predator. :rollseyes:

Good LORD, the conservative objections to this petition are PATHETIC!

[Standing Wolf]

Funny how 99.9999% of all the characters in movies can be - from all appearances - strictly heterosexual, and that's all good...but if a single character is something other, some folks consider that to be an attempt at "indoctrination". Hollywood spent decades either ignoring, libeling or outright vilifying LGBT characters - see either the book or the film version of 'The Celluloid Closet'; maybe it's time for a bit of penance - or at least self-correction.

[nathanbforrest45]

Because yes, being bisexual is exactly the same as being a sexual predator. :rollseyes:

Good LORD, the conservative objections to this petition are PATHETIC!

This is exactly what I mean in my last post. Our objection is very simply put. Bisexuality is as much a mental aberration as pedophilia or socialism. Once you accept insanity as the norm than any form of insanity will be found acceptable.

Only the most bubbleheaded nimrods do not understand this simple concept.

[Captain Obvious]

Funny how 99.9999% of all the characters in movies can be - from all appearances - strictly heterosexual, and that's all good...but if a single character is something other, some folks consider that to be an attempt at "indoctrination". Hollywood spent decades either ignoring, libeling or outright vilifying LGBT characters - see either the book or the film version of 'The Celluloid Closet'; maybe it's time for a bit of penance - or at least self-correction.

Funny how I don't watch Batman because he's hetero too.

[Standing Wolf]

Wonder Women should be exactly what she is, a cartoon character with no sexuality whatsoever.

She isn't real, she was never real.

So, what...Superman and Lois Lane should just be friends? Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Girl should get a divorce and take a vow of celibacy? Tony Stark/Iron Man...oh, jeez, that's never going to work.

[resister]

Funny how 99.9999% of all the characters in movies can be - from all appearances - strictly heterosexual, and that's all good...but if a single character is something other, some folks consider that to be an attempt at "indoctrination". Hollywood spent decades either ignoring, libeling or outright vilifying LGBT characters - see either the book or the film version of 'The Celluloid Closet'; maybe it's time for a bit of penance - or at least self-correction.
Are you kidding me? LGQBT's are all over TV in increasing numbers. You acknowledge that, right?

[Mister D]

And now instead of a hollerin' clown every black man is a sage. lol

[Perianne]

And now instead of a hollerin' clown every black man is a sage. lol
It's odd how things change.

[jimmyz]

"We think it's a faaaaabulous idea!"

http://b0.img.mobypicture.com/9446c7fa1814d8b2cbd93c295f0b5890_view.jpg

[Captain Obvious]

It isn't important to me the race, gender, faith, sexuality, favorite football team, whatever a character is.

They have to be convincing in a realistic role and entertaining. Bi/tranny/jewish/fist-fetish Aquaman... nope.

People who want identity entertainment want identity more than entertainment.

[resister]

It isn't important to me the race, gender, faith, sexuality, favorite football team, whatever a character is.

They have to be convincing in a realistic role and entertaining. Bi/tranny/jewish/fist-fetish Aquaman... nope.

People who want identity entertainment want identity more than entertainment.
Hollywood is a liberal propaganda machine, very little on TV interest me.

[Perianne]

... People who want identity entertainment want identity more than entertainment.

Captain Obvious, you are a wise man.

[nathanbforrest45]

So, what...Superman and Lois Lane should just be friends? Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Girl should get a divorce and take a vow of celibacy? Tony Stark/Iron Man...oh, jeez, that's never going to work.

I don't understand your point assuming you actually have one.

Their sex lives should not be a part of the story line. Especially when their sex lives are aberrant.

[Standing Wolf]

Are you kidding me? LGQBT's are all over TV in increasing numbers. You acknowledge that, right?

I was referring to all the characters in all the movies going back nearly a hundred years, right up until very recently, r. As for television, the first sympathetic portrayal of any gay character on t.v. didn't happen until 1972, with the airing of a t.v. movie called That Certain Summer, with Hal Holbrook and Martin Sheen. After that, the presence of LGBT characters on the small screen was only sporadic and occasional, and for the most part they had to be really funny or really old to be acceptable to the networks. It wasn't until the '90s that gay and lesbian characters began to appear regularly on t.v. for other than comic relief...and only in the past few years that strong, interesting characters who just happen to be gay have been seen.

[Adelaide]

I think it is somewhat important to have a range of sexuality and race (among other things) represented in media, but I would think they should follow and be true to the comics. I don't read comics and thus I have no idea whether Wonder Woman is supposed to be bisexual. Wouldn't bother me either way... but I know a lot of LGBTQs who probably would have benefited from more gay/lesbian/bisexual characters on television when they were growing up.

[jimmyz]

I can't wait for the Wonder Woman porno parody films. A Hulk, Wonder Woman and Batgirl threesome (in costumes) would be a hoot. Opening scene; Hulk rips Batgirl's leather catsuit open at the crotch and Wonder Woman lifts her skirt to show us she is sans panties making Hulk's green junk obviously happy.

[Standing Wolf]

Bi/tranny/jewish/fist-fetish Aquaman... nope.

It's okay if he's amphibious, though, right?

[Captain Obvious]

I think it is somewhat important to have a range of sexuality and race (among other things) represented in media, but I would think they should follow and be true to the comics. I don't read comics and thus I have no idea whether Wonder Woman is supposed to be bisexual. Wouldn't bother me either way... but I know a lot of LGBTQs who probably would have benefited from more gay/lesbian/bisexual characters on television when they were growing up.

It has to work though and not be disgustingly obviously slammed in.

Black Vulcans on Star Trek, flop.

[nathanbforrest45]

I think it is somewhat important to have a range of sexuality and race (among other things) represented in media, but I would think they should follow and be true to the comics. I don't read comics and thus I have no idea whether Wonder Woman is supposed to be bisexual. Wouldn't bother me either way... but I know a lot of LGBTQs who probably would have benefited from more gay/lesbian/bisexual characters on television when they were growing up.


Wonder Woman comes from an island that is 100 percent women. I wouldn't make her bi, unless you also want to claim she is a tranny as well.

The point is Wonder Woman is what her creator made her to be, a heroine who fights evil. Her sex life should have no bearing on any of that and is a meaningless sop thrown to those who absolutely need to be validated on their aberrations.

And does anyone other than gays sit around thinking "Oh Yeah, Wonder Woman, I want a segment where she is shown going down on another woman. Yeah Baby, that would be so righteous".

[Mister D]

I think it is somewhat important to have a range of sexuality and race (among other things) represented in media, but I would think they should follow and be true to the comics. I don't read comics and thus I have no idea whether Wonder Woman is supposed to be bisexual. Wouldn't bother me either way... but I know a lot of LGBTQs who probably would have benefited from more gay/lesbian/bisexual characters on television when they were growing up.
You can see race. Race is usually obvious. I understand the need for black children to see their people represented. We don't need to know Wonder Woman is bi, that she's fucking Batman or when she gets her period.

[Mister D]

It has to work though and not be disgustingly obviously slammed in.

Black Vulcans on Star Trek, flop.
It always is.

[Kalkin]

Hell yes.

20152

I'd like to clarify my position: Only in X-rated movies.

[Adelaide]

It has to work though and not be disgustingly obviously slammed in.

Black Vulcans on Star Trek, flop.

I think that having gay or lesbian or bisexual characters isn't a big deal so long as it's a natural thing and not a "we shall shove our sexuality down your throat" thing (and I feel the same way about displays of heterosexuality - overtly and/or unnecessary "PDA"s and shit are lame). When I was a pre-teenager, Buffy the Vampire Slayer was on television and had a lesbian character but it never felt forced.

I want "natural" portrayals because anything else would not be fair to the LGBTQ community. I can think of some popular shows and movies that had openly gay characters that added to the stigma surrounding sexuality rather than just being an honest portrayal.

[Peter1469]

Hell yes.

20152
Absolutely

[Mister D]

There is no way to do this with existing characters without forcing it. You want gay heroes? Create them.

[jimmyz]

I am kneeling down in the general direction of the petition starters.

Can't Wonder Woman wear the color appropriate wrist band announcing her bisexuality or would it clash with her bullet-proof gold ones?

[Kalkin]

Absolutely

She's pretty fantasstic...

[Perianne]

I guess I have to wonder why it is important that Wonder Woman be bisexual?

[Standing Wolf]

I don't understand your point assuming you actually have one.

Their sex lives should not be a part of the story line. Especially when their sex lives are aberrant.

Aren't you conflating "sex lives" with "romantic lives"? My point was that individuals in comics - and, for that matter, in films and on television - have always had romantic inclinations, aside from a few movie cowboys in the '30s-'50s who seemed to only be attracted to their horses. My example of Lois and Clark, for example - those two have been dating for going on eighty years. Aside from a few "adult" comics like 'Omaha the Cat Dancer' (whose characters are not technically human beings) and some of R. Crumb's stuff, I don't believe I've ever seen one comic character in flagrante delicto with another.

Back to the "controversy" under discussion, as I recall in the Wonder Woman movie, Diana and Steve Trevor were alone together in a room, and then they cut to an exterior shot of the building, and the assumption is that they were...you know, doing it. Had Diana been in that room with another female character when they switched to an exterior shot, would that have somehow been, in your estimation, less of an acceptable expression of her "sexuality"? I don't believe anyone is seriously proposing that we should get an X-rated lesbian soft-core porn WW sequel; is what a character may be doing behind closed cinematic doors really all that upsetting to you?

[nathanbforrest45]

The New Wonder Woman Theme Song


Everyday, it's a-gettin' closer
Goin' faster than a roller coaster
Love like yours will surely come my way
A-hey, a-hey hey

Everyday, it's a-gettin' faster
Everyone said, "Go ahead and ask her"
Love like yours will surely come my way
A-hey, a-hey hey

Everyday seems a little longer
Every way, love's a little stronger
Come what may, do you ever long for
True love from me?

Everyday, it's a-gettin' closer
Goin' faster than a roller coaster
Love like yours will surely come my way
A-hey, a-hey hey

Everyday seems a little longer
Every way, love's a little stronger
Come what may, do you ever long for
True love from me?

Everyday, it's a-gettin' closer
Goin' faster than a roller coaster
Love like yours will surely come my way

[Archer0915]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-$#@!-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:
Hell fucking NO. Invent a GAY hero and stop attacking the right. It is this leftist agenda bullshit that is part of the issue pissing off the right and they are getting sick of this candyass bullshit.

[Perianne]

... is what a character may be doing behind closed cinematic doors really all that upsetting to you?
Why is what a character may be doing behind closed cinematic doors even important at all?

[Standing Wolf]

And does anyone other than gays sit around thinking "Oh Yeah, Wonder Woman, I want a segment where she is shown going down on another woman. Yeah Baby, that would be so righteous".

Right. Because the average straight man thinks lesbian porn is totally disgusting. :rollseyes:

[nathanbforrest45]

Right. Because the average straight man thinks lesbian porn is totally disgusting. :rollseyes:



dwerp

[Standing Wolf]

Why is what a character may be doing behind closed cinematic doors even important at all?

You should ask one of the contributors to his thread to whom it appears to be.

[Kalkin]

I guess I have to wonder why it is important that Wonder Woman be bisexual?
Because the left's agenda must be shoved in the face of all, especially the malleable minds of children. In the world of Libtopia, if everyone agrees the sky is plaid, then the sky is plaid.

[Captdon]

Funny how 99.9999% of all the characters in movies can be - from all appearances - strictly heterosexual, and that's all good...but if a single character is something other, some folks consider that to be an attempt at "indoctrination". Hollywood spent decades either ignoring, libeling or outright vilifying LGBT characters - see either the book or the film version of 'The Celluloid Closet'; maybe it's time for a bit of penance - or at least self-correction.

I don't need Hollywood telling me anything. I watch what I want to watch. I don't want to watch gays. transgenders or other mental cases.

As for penance, laughing is more than that remark deserves.

[nathanbforrest45]

Aren't you conflating "sex lives" with "romantic lives"? My point was that individuals in comics - and, for that matter, in films and on television - have always had romantic inclinations, aside from a few movie cowboys in the '30s-'50s who seemed to only be attracted to their horses. My example of Lois and Clark, for example - those two have been dating for going on eighty years. Aside from a few "adult" comics like 'Omaha the Cat Dancer' (whose characters are not technically human beings) and some of R. Crumb's stuff, I don't believe I've ever seen one comic character in flagrante delicto with another.

Back to the "controversy" under discussion, as I recall in the Wonder Woman movie, Diana and Steve Trevor were alone together in a room, and then they cut to an exterior shot of the building, and the assumption is that they were...you know, doing it. Had Diana been in that room with another female character when they switched to an exterior shot, would that have somehow been, in your estimation, less of an acceptable expression of her "sexuality"? I don't believe anyone is seriously proposing that we should get an X-rated lesbian soft-core porn WW sequel; is what a character may be doing behind closed cinematic doors really all that upsetting to you?
Sexuality and comic book characters do not enter my thinking at the same time. Perhaps to someone who is always thinking of aberrant sexual practices it might but I don't care what she may or may not do in real life or with who since she has no real life.

I believe regardless of what "experts" may try to force on us that homosexuality is a mental defect and making it mainstream and acceptable is a sure path to destruction of civilized society.

Laugh it you will but I don't care since I firmly believe people like you and those who would make any behavior acceptable are borderline insane.

[jimmyz]

Why is what a character may be doing behind closed cinematic doors even important at all?

To normalize deviant behavior.

[Archer0915]

I guess I have to wonder why it is important that Wonder Woman be bisexual?
Agenda! They are trying to desensitize children! It is social engineering so that they can further their agenda.

[Standing Wolf]

I guess I have to wonder why it is important that Wonder Woman be bisexual?

Seriously, P, why is it so important to some that she not be?

[Captain Obvious]

To normalize deviant behavior.

Maybe Wonder Woman should have small hands, a really bad dewlap and send angry tweets at 3 in the morning.

:biglaugh:

[Archer0915]

Seriously, P, why is it so important to some that she not be?
Why is it so important that everything turn gay? No bullshit just the damn truth! There is a fucking agenda and I can see it. So that is that.

[Standing Wolf]

John 11:35

[Archer0915]

John 11:35
Really? That is your reply? You want to debate this: Read up on this first and then take some sociology classes.

Here is a WIKI on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(political_science)

Also look up agenda. This is not about equal rights it is about destroying a society and rebuilding it the way you want it.

[Standing Wolf]

Really? That is your reply? You want to debate this: Read up on this first and then take some sociology classes.

Here is a WIKI on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(political_science)

Also look up agenda. This is not about equal rights it is about destroying a society and rebuilding it the way you want it.

"Debate"? Did you really, in all seriousness, refer to what has been going on in this thread as a "debate"? Wow.

[Archer0915]

"Debate"? Did you really, in all seriousness, refer to what has been going on in this thread as a "debate"? Wow.

Did I call it a damn debate? Hell no! I wrote "You want to debate this: Read up on this first and then take some sociology classes.

Here is a WIKI on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social...tical_science) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(political_science))

Also look up agenda. This is not about equal rights it is about destroying a society and rebuilding it the way you want it."

But don't bother I can see I am dealing with leftist knuckle dragers, I am done with this thread. I can see it is just leftist drivel.

[Green Arrow]

Wonder Women should be exactly what she is, a cartoon character with no sexuality whatsoever.

She isn't real, she was never real.

What next? Make Santa Claus a pedophile for hanging around with all those little people at the North Pole?
Wonder Woman is not "a cartoon character with no sexuality whatsoever," and never has been.

[Green Arrow]

If I hire an employee because he is white over a minority that is bigotry.

How is prefering a bi over a hetero different?

Loaded question, it's not.

For the record, identity entertainment is junk. When I smell agenda I walk out of the theater.

Nobody has said anything about preferring bi over hetero.

[Green Arrow]

Wonder Woman comes from an island that is 100 percent women. I wouldn't make her bi, unless you also want to claim she is a tranny as well.

The point is Wonder Woman is what her creator made her to be, a heroine who fights evil. Her sex life should have no bearing on any of that and is a meaningless sop thrown to those who absolutely need to be validated on their aberrations.

And does anyone other than gays sit around thinking "Oh Yeah, Wonder Woman, I want a segment where she is shown going down on another woman. Yeah Baby, that would be so righteous".

Wonder Woman's creator made her bi. Glad you agree there's nothing wrong with her being bi in a movie.

[Green Arrow]

I find the claims in this thread that it's "the left" freaking out about this and making it a big deal quite laughable. So far, the response from "the left" has been: sure, why not. Meanwhile, the response from "the right" has been: "indoctrination!", lesbian porn, Nazis, every character must be gay.

Yep. Totally the left overreacting.

[The Xl]

We can whine and bitch about bisexuality all day, but if the character wonder woman is bi, and they're making a movie based on her, then why shouldn't she be bisexual? It's not like they're doing it just to do it, which I would be against

[Perianne]

We can whine and $#@! about bisexuality all day, but if the character wonder woman is bi, and they're making a movie based on her, then why shouldn't she be bisexual? It's not like they're doing it just to do it, which I would be against
Is Wonder Woman bi? If so, then why the petition?

[Captain Obvious]

Nobody has said anything about preferring bi over hetero.

lol... seriously?

[Adelaide]

Is Wonder Woman bi? If so, then why the petition?

Based on the film, they perhaps only addressed part of her sexuality. In future films, which are going to happen, it might be more honest to the character to include all aspects of her sexuality as was originally written.

But it's possible they won't be honest with the character because of public pressure.

That's why I think there is a petition.

[Peter1469]

If there is a strong bisexual streak in the next movie, more dudes will watch it.

[Standing Wolf]

If there is a strong bisexual streak in the next movie, more dudes will watch it.

Nah...according to 'nathan', only "gays" want to see that stuff.

[Green Arrow]

lol... seriously?

Yes, seriously.

[Peter1469]

Nah...according to 'nathan', only "gays" want to see that stuff.
right...

[Chris]

It strikes me as likely the Warner Bros started this whole thing just to get some see advertising.

[Green Arrow]

Everything is a conspiracy...

[AZ Jim]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-queer-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation: She is bi, I've seen the video!!

[Archer0915]

If there is a strong bisexual streak in the next movie, more dudes will watch it.
Does not bother us adults one way or the other but my kids will not see it (daughter excluded she is old enough) until they are grown.

[Green Arrow]

Does not bother us adults one way or the other but my kids will not see it (daughter excluded she is old enough) until they are grown.

Clearly it bothers plenty of adults, yourself included, given all of the comments here.

[Crepitus]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-queer-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:

If the comic book says so, that's the way it should be.

[Chris]

Everything is a conspiracy...

The marketing branch of Warner is no conspiracy. It seems to have worked.

[Kalkin]

Truth be told, outside of an adult movie, it isn't necessary to do. Same with a lot of things Hollywood generally avoids in Superhero movies: menstruation, crapping, hemorrhoids, PMS nuttiness, ED, breast feeding... the list goes on.

The only reason to have her be a part-time donut bumper is to further their pro-gay agenda. It certainly isn't a necessary sub-plot in a hero movie. We can't have a strong female lead that likes only men, now can we?

[Captain Obvious]

Yes, seriously.

Who's the originally gay superhero?

Start a petition to make that gay superhero straight in his next movie and watch the shit fly.

[Green Arrow]

Who's the originally gay superhero?

Start a petition to make that gay superhero straight in his next movie and watch the shit fly.

I'm sure it would. That has nothing to do with my question, though. Wonder Woman is bisexual in the comics. Always has been. Her creator, William Marston, was openly positive about non-hetero sexuality. Making her bi in a movie is just showing a part of her character that is true to her comics existence and to her creator's own beliefs.

Again, it has nothing to do with preferring bisexuals over heterosexuals. What you and others are complaining about is pretty much akin to someone bitching about making a movie where Martin Luther King was a black guy instead of a white guy.

[Chris]

Who's the originally gay superhero?

Start a petition to make that gay superhero straight in his next movie and watch the shit fly.

Robin of Batman fame was kinda gay.

[Mister D]

Robin of Batman fame was kinda gay.
If Bruce Wayne was a pederast we don't need to know it.

[Chris]

If Bruce Wayne was a pederast we don't need to know it.

https://i.snag.gy/T2SgV8.jpg

[AZ Jim]

Fuck wonder woman.

[Archer0915]

Clearly it bothers plenty of adults, yourself included, given all of the comments here.

If it were not for the social engineering going on and the children that will be exposed to this shit... I really "DO NOT CARE". Sadly the issue is the "AGENDA" and not her sexuality. The OP makes it clear that this is an agenda and it is leftist driven.

[Dr. Who]

I'm not a historical reader of comic books - a few but not a major fan, however, super-hero comics are a sub-genre of science fiction/fantasy and SF has never been squeamish about tackling all aspects of human psychology i.e. SSM, plural marriage etc. If WW comes from a mythical society where men are basically not allowed except for procreation, it would be a bit strange if she were not bi-sexual.

[jimmyz]

Who's the originally gay superhero?

Start a petition to make that gay superhero straight in his next movie and watch the shit fly.

Stop being rational and post on Icelandic Viking boards to be accepted.

[resister]

Fuck wonder woman.
Evidently, she is not into that!:)

[resister]

I'm not a historical reader of comic books - a few but not a major fan, however, super-hero comics are a sub-genre of science fiction/fantasy and SF has never been squeamish about tackling all aspects of human psychology i.e. SSM, plural marriage etc. If WW comes from a mythical society where men are basically not allowed except for procreation, it would be a bit strange if she were not bi-sexual.
There is a sperm bank, app for that! :)

[Green Arrow]

If it were not for the social engineering going on and the children that will be exposed to this shit... I really "DO NOT CARE". Sadly the issue is the "AGENDA" and not her sexuality. The OP makes it clear that this is an agenda and it is leftist driven.

Children wouldn't be "exposed" to it if parents did their jobs.

And no, the OP doesn't make that clear. You are reading things into it that are not there.

[Private Pickle]

I just don't understand. Why is this even a discussion? We are talking about a comic book character. Why is sexuality so pervasive in today's media? There are agendas at play here and in my opinion an agenda will always get in the way of the entertainment for which the media was created in the first place.

Polly? Does making Wonder Woman a "zer" make the movie better or worse?

[Captain Obvious]

So what parents goes to Walmart to get their kid a Halloween costume and says "oh look, Wonder Woman does surf and turf, let's get this one"?

[Green Arrow]

I just don't understand. Why is this even a discussion? We are talking about a comic book character. Why is sexuality so pervasive in today's media? There are agendas at play here and in my opinion an agenda will always get in the way of the entertainment for which the media was created in the first place.

Polly? Does making Wonder Woman a "zer" make the movie better or worse?

Sexuality has always been pervasive. Y'all just didn't see fit to complain about it until it was other sexuality that isn't hetero being pervasive.

[Captain Obvious]

Sexuality has always been pervasive. Y'all just didn't see fit to complain about it until it was other sexuality that isn't hetero being pervasive.

Superheros were for kids, not so much anymore.

Maybe that's part of the rub.

If it's Rambo or Terminator or something, yeah - that's adult entertainment.

[Archer0915]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-$#@!-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:


Children wouldn't be "exposed" to it if parents did their jobs.

And no, the OP doesn't make that clear. You are reading things into it that are not there.

Yeah! There is an agenda and the damned petition backs that the fuck up! And I agree parents need to do their jobs.

[Green Arrow]

Superheros were for kids, not so much anymore.

Maybe that's part of the rub.

If it's Rambo or Terminator or something, yeah - that's adult entertainment.

Comics haven't ever been intended for kids, even in the days of the Comics Code comic publishers tried to make them as adult as possible. That kids eventually found the medium to their liking has no bearing on the fact that comics (at least as far as the Big Two, Marvel and DC, are concerned) were intended for adults.

[Green Arrow]

Yeah! There is an agenda and the damned petition backs that the fuck up! And I agree parents need to do their jobs.

No, it doesn't. All the petition says is, hey, WW has ALWAYS been bisexual, that should be portrayed in a movie. It's not a fucking agenda to say MLK needs to be portrayed by a black man because he WAS a fucking black man.

[Captain Obvious]

Comics haven't ever been intended for kids, even in the days of the Comics Code comic publishers tried to make them as adult as possible. That kids eventually found the medium to their liking has no bearing on the fact that comics (at least as far as the Big Two, Marvel and DC, are concerned) were intended for adults.

In your lifetime maybe. In mine it was a total kid thing.

People my age with kids remember that also.

[Archer0915]

No, it doesn't. All the petition says is, hey, WW has ALWAYS been bisexual, that should be portrayed in a movie. It's not a $#@!ing agenda to say MLK needs to be portrayed by a black man because he WAS a $#@!ing black man.

Got evidence of her being BI?

[Green Arrow]

Got evidence of her being BI?

She was raised into adulthood on an island populated solely by women. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[Green Arrow]

In your lifetime maybe. In mine it was a total kid thing.

People my age with kids remember that also.
Yeah, I forgot Captain America punching out Hitler, island women wearing almost nothing, and constant-upskirt Wonder Woman always ending up in chains as obvious references to submissive sexual bondage, totally for kids.

That was all between 1940 and 1970, btw.

[resister]

She was raised into adulthood on an island populated solely by women. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.
Your statement precludes the possibility of an asexual existence, some simply are not interested.

[Green Arrow]

Your statement precludes the possibility of an asexual existence, some simply are not interested.
She clearly was interested, as she had a relationship with Steve Trevor. So she wasn't asexual.

[Archer0915]

She was raised into adulthood on an island populated solely by women. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.
No evidence, speculation.

[resister]

She clearly was interested, as she had a relationship with Steve Trevor. So she wasn't asexual.
Steve sounds like a man?

I just don't think the sexuality of a fictional character is a petition I could get behind!

Seriously? With all the issues in the world?

[Green Arrow]

Steve sounds like a man?

I just don't think the sexuality of a fictional character is a petition I could get behind!

Seriously? With all the issues in the world?

That's exactly how I feel about a few sports dudes kneeling during the national anthem.

[Adelaide]

I'm not a historical reader of comic books - a few but not a major fan, however, super-hero comics are a sub-genre of science fiction/fantasy and SF has never been squeamish about tackling all aspects of human psychology i.e. SSM, plural marriage etc. If WW comes from a mythical society where men are basically not allowed except for procreation, it would be a bit strange if she were not bi-sexual.

I remember reading that Star Trek had the first on-television interracial kiss. I think you are right that the genre tends to tackle relevant issues and it seems like many franchises try to keep it natural rather than stereotypical.

[resister]

That's exactly how I feel about a few sports dudes kneeling during the national anthem.
They are not pushing sexuality on a young audience, that red herring thing, right?

[Standing Wolf]

Does not bother us adults one way or the other but my kids will not see it (daughter excluded she is old enough) until they are grown.

And when your kids ask why they're not allowed to see it, will you be honest with them about your reason?

[Standing Wolf]

The only reason to have her be a part-time donut bumper is to further their pro-gay agenda. It certainly isn't a necessary sub-plot in a hero movie. We can't have a strong female lead that likes only men, now can we?

Apparently, some people believe that's all we're allowed to have.

[Standing Wolf]

I just don't understand. Why is this even a discussion? We are talking about a comic book character. Why is sexuality so pervasive in today's media?

Again...Superman and Lois Lane have been an item since 1938. The Flash has Iris West. Ray Palmer has Janet Van Dyne. Green Lantern has Carol Ferris. Reed Richards has Sue Storm. Etc., etc., etc. As in every entertainment medium from Homer - no, not Simpson - to Disney, heterosexuality has been the one constant message. So, no, it is far from new. Is a truer reflection of the real world - one in which not everyone is necessarily straighter than straight - really so offensive to you?

[Standing Wolf]

If it's Rambo or Terminator or something, yeah - that's adult entertainment.

Ever hear Sam Kinison's gay Terminator routine on his posthumously released 'Live From Hell' album?

[Private Pickle]

Sexuality has always been pervasive. Y'all just didn't see fit to complain about it until it was other sexuality that isn't hetero being pervasive.
It's not like I don't get the salacious nature of film. But I'm talking about this movie in particular. I'm not complaining I am just asking the question which you haven't answered yet.

[Private Pickle]

Again...Superman and Lois Lane have been an item since 1938. The Flash has Iris West. Ray Palmer has Janet Van Dyne. Green Lantern has Carol Ferris. Reed Richards has Sue Storm. Etc., etc., etc. As in every entertainment medium from Homer - no, not Simpson - to Disney, heterosexuality has been the one constant message. So, no, it is far from new. Is a truer reflection of the real world - one in which not everyone is necessarily straighter than straight - really so offensive to you?
The only offense I take is when they change the narrative to include their agenda. Beauty and the Beast is a good example. The original had no mention of sexuality outside of the romance between the beauty and the beast. The remake included a homosexual relationship. How do you explain the reasoning behind that other than to admit there was an agenda in play?

[Standing Wolf]

The only offense I take is when they change the narrative to include their agenda. Beauty and the Beast is a good example. The original had no mention of sexuality outside of the romance between the beauty and the beast. The remake included a homosexual relationship. How do you explain the reasoning behind that other than to admit there was an agenda in play?

I haven't seen the live action version, so I can't comment on it, not knowing the context.

[IMPress Polly]

Well thank you for all the replies, everyone! The conservatives have made this thread as entertaining as the Wonder Woman movie. :grin: I will just say a few things:

1) Given the epic meltdown over this matter, no one here has the right to label me a "snowflake" ever again. E-VAR!

2) As to the matter of evidence that Wonder Woman is bisexual, the OP supplied my evidence in a link. Namely, the people who make the comic book say she is. I consider that strong evidence.

3) Perhaps most amusingly, it's not like a single one of the critics of this petition actually appreciates what Wonder Woman is about anyway, being that she is a feminist icon known to appear of Gloria Steinem's Ms. magazine and they're all anti-feminists: Archer, Cletus, Captain Obvious, Mister D, resister, Perianne, Nathan. These are all people who hate feminism! I don't think Wonder Woman was made with such people in mind as the target demographic! What's more, I doubt that most of you have even seen the film or read any of the comics before or know anything at all about the character! You'll forgive me for taking the opinions of such a demographic on this subject less seriously.

4) I've seen a lot of remarks here that describe non-heterosexual people like they're a gimmick. I get what some people are suggesting about the possibility of tokenization, but I'm just saying that we should say it that way rather than talking about people like their existence is a kind of corporate trick.

5) It's very obvious that the opponents of this petition just simply hate bisexual people and don't know why.

That is all.

[Captain Obvious]

How am I anti-feminist?

I've said before, there are two kinds of feminists, the destructive "anti-male" type and the constructive "pro-woman" type.

I could care less what they stage Wonder Woman as in movies, if it's a shamefully identity plugged film, meh. I'll add it to the other thousands of movies I'll never watch. When I watch a movie I want a number of things in it. Entertainment value, realism, off-the-wall originality are some of them. A social agenda isn't one of them and if that's your thing, cool. I get it, you like what you like but you can't expect your views and likes to be appreciated by all.

[Captain Obvious]

And plugging WW as a bi - what does that have anything to do with feminism?

You say the most out-of-left-field things sometimes.

[Chris]

And plugging WW as a bi - what does that have anything to do with feminism?

You say the most out-of-left-field things sometimes.


Because you don't get it you're an anti-feminist! Hah!!

[Mister D]

Because you don't get it you're an anti-feminist! Hah!!
Since no one knows what feminism is I can't really object to a meaningless label like "anti-feminist".

[Chris]

Since no one knows what feminism is I can't really object to a meaningless label like "anti-feminist".

But we do know that pro-life feminists are not true feminists.

[Archer0915]

And when your kids ask why they're not allowed to see it, will you be honest with them about your reason?
Yeah, "You are not mature enough to understand all the concepts presented in the movie".

[Archer0915]

Again...Superman and Lois Lane have been an item since 1938. The Flash has Iris West. Ray Palmer has Janet Van Dyne. Green Lantern has Carol Ferris. Reed Richards has Sue Storm. Etc., etc., etc. As in every entertainment medium from Homer - no, not Simpson - to Disney, heterosexuality has been the one constant message. So, no, it is far from new. Is a truer reflection of the real world - one in which not everyone is necessarily straighter than straight - really so offensive to you?

Agenda! You want to change a message!

[Mister D]

But we do know that pro-life feminists are not true feminists.
Well, at least we know that.

[Mister D]

Agenda! You want to change a message!
Heterosexuality is simply the norm. It's not a message. It's like saying that depicting heroes without severe mental and physical disabilities sends a "message". :rollseyes:

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, "You are not mature enough to understand all the concepts presented in the movie".

Yeah, that's kind of the point of not exposing kids to adult content by... not exposing them to adult content lol.

"Billy, you can't see this movie because it's a sausage and clam fest".

[Captain Obvious]

Since no one knows what feminism is I can't really object to a meaningless label like "anti-feminist".

Clearly you are anti-label though

[Mister D]

Clearly you are anti-label though
Which is probably good evidence that I hate black people and women and gays and...

[Archer0915]

Heterosexuality is simply the norm. It's not a message. It's like saying that depicting heroes without severe mental and physical disabilities sends a "message". :rollseyes:
No! To the left it is a message! Hence AGENDA! The left has to take offense at everything that is normal and turn it into a message of hate against them.

[Mister D]

No! To the left it is a message! Hence AGENDA! The left has to take offense at everything that is normal and turn it into a message of hate against them.
Give him credit. It's only obliquely or unwittingly that they will ever admit that this is purely ideological.

[Private Pickle]

I haven't seen the live action version, so I can't comment on it, not knowing the context.

Fair enough but I explained it plainly.

[nathanbforrest45]

And when your kids ask why they're not allowed to see it, will you be honest with them about your reason?


I would say its because its not suitable for young children. I never explained my reasons to my children, they were too young to understand anyway

[Ravens Fan]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-queer-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:

I watched the TV show as a kid, and do not remember her being bi sexual, but I never read the comic version. If she was created to be bi sexual though, I really don't see the issue. The only time that I have an issue, is when Hollywood decides to throw a gay person, or a minority into the mix for no reason other than PC. If an old movie/TV show/book/comic is being made into a movie or a re-boot, I think that the main characters should remain true to the original. If you have to resort to changing something that much, might as well try being original and making your own story, IMO.

For instance, and I know my favorite star of this show is very controversial right now, but growing up, my favorite show was the Dukes of Hazzard. I was very upset when the movie came out years ago, where Bo and Luke were turned into cussing, ignorant brats, Daisy was turned into a blonde bimbo, and uncle Jessie was a pot head. If you are going to play homage to a very popular show/movie/book/comic, I think you should stay true to the original concept. My favorite star from that show was the General, BTW.

[Standing Wolf]

Yeah, "You are not mature enough to understand all the concepts presented in the movie".

That's being vague and evasive - not honest.

Honest would be something like, "The people who made this movie made it so that Wonder Woman doesn't just like men, but women, too. People who are like that are crazy and I don't want you growing up thinking it's okay or normal."

If you're lucky, they'll grow up to be as straight as you are and not have to deal with (1) doubts about their self-worth, or (2) the knowledge that their Dad thinks there is something wrong with them. Instead, they'll either grow up agreeing with you and being a sexist bigot, or grow up to discover the truth that who one loves and finds attractive is no determiner of good character and that their Dad is kind of a jerk.

In retrospect, maybe honesty is not your best option in this situation.

[Captain Obvious]

That's being vague and evasive - not honest.

Honest would be something like, "The people who made this movie made it so that Wonder Woman doesn't just like men, but women, too. People who are like that are crazy and I don't want you growing up thinking it's okay or normal."

If you're lucky, they'll grow up to be as straight as you are and not have to deal with (1) doubts about their self-worth, or (2) the knowledge that their Dad thinks there is something wrong with them. Instead, they'll either grow up agreeing with you and being a sexist bigot, or grow up to discover the truth that who one loves and finds attractive is no determiner of good character and that their Dad is kind of a jerk.

In retrospect, maybe honesty is not your best option in this situation.

Translation: Society is forcing you to be raised a certain way, we as parents have no input in that anymore.

[Standing Wolf]

Translation: Society is forcing you to be raised a certain way, we as parents have no input in that anymore.

Not even close.

[Chris]

Translation: Society is forcing you to be raised a certain way, we as parents have no input in that anymore.

Translation is more like let me invent a stupid strawman to knock down. I mean who the hell is going to say all that to a kid.

I'd've told my kid something like what Archer said, or even less. You're not old enough to see it. When you are, go ahead.

[Standing Wolf]

https://youtu.be/0zY76p4Jh64

[Standing Wolf]

How about, "You're old enough to see people being machine-gunned down, strangled to death and blown up, but not to see a movie where the heroine might sometimes feel like kissing a girl"?

[Chris]

I watched the TV show as a kid, and do not remember her being bi sexual, but I never read the comic version. If she was created to be bi sexual though, I really don't see the issue. The only time that I have an issue, is when Hollywood decides to throw a gay person, or a minority into the mix for no reason other than PC. If an old movie/TV show/book/comic is being made into a movie or a re-boot, I think that the main characters should remain true to the original. If you have to resort to changing something that much, might as well try being original and making your own story, IMO.

For instance, and I know my favorite star of this show is very controversial right now, but growing up, my favorite show was the Dukes of Hazzard. I was very upset when the movie came out years ago, where Bo and Luke were turned into cussing, ignorant brats, Daisy was turned into a blonde bimbo, and uncle Jessie was a pot head. If you are going to play homage to a very popular show/movie/book/comic, I think you should stay true to the original concept. My favorite star from that show was the General, BTW.


The General was bi-nary:

https://i.snag.gy/PRrFDL.jpg

[Archer0915]

That's being vague and evasive - not honest.

Honest would be something like, "The people who made this movie made it so that Wonder Woman doesn't just like men, but women, too. People who are like that are crazy and I don't want you growing up thinking it's okay or normal."

If you're lucky, they'll grow up to be as straight as you are and not have to deal with (1) doubts about their self-worth, or (2) the knowledge that their Dad thinks there is something wrong with them. Instead, they'll either grow up agreeing with you and being a sexist bigot, or grow up to discover the truth that who one loves and finds attractive is no determiner of good character and that their Dad is kind of a jerk.

In retrospect, maybe honesty is not your best option in this situation.

Actually honesty is telling them that there are concepts that are beyond their comprehension. I would no more let them watch Debbie does Dallas than this.

Your take on an honest answer is the "Bigoted" reply and it shows that you are AGENDA driven.

[Chris]

How about, "You're old enough to see people being machine-gunned down, strangled to death and blown up, but not to see a movie where the heroine might sometimes feel like kissing a girl"?

I didn't let my kid watch those either.

Well, once, his friends, two brothers down the street, stayed the night and they wanted to see The Terminator. For some stupid reason I said as long as you don't tell your parents. Of course, next day the little brother told his parents and I was in trouble.

[Standing Wolf]

Your take on an honest answer is the "Bigoted" reply and it shows that you are AGENDA driven.

Right. You have a plan and a set of beliefs and principles - the "other guy" has an agenda.

[Archer0915]

Right. You have a plan and a set of beliefs and principles - the "other guy" has an agenda.
So if I allow my kids to grow up and make their own decisions I am hurting them simply because I do not allow them to be influenced by leftists? Got it! You want the right out of your bedroom but you want the left to be allowed into the minds of children! Double standard much?

[Captain Obvious]

Translation is more like let me invent a stupid strawman to knock down. I mean who the hell is going to say all that to a kid.

I'd've told my kid something like what Archer said, or even less. You're not old enough to see it. When you are, go ahead.

Exactly

Kids can't be kids anymore, everyone wants to turn them into trannies and bible thumpers right out of the womb.

[Captain Obvious]

How about, "You're old enough to see people being machine-gunned down, strangled to death and blown up, but not to see a movie where the heroine might sometimes feel like kissing a girl"?

I didn't expose my kids to violent movies also.

Fail

[Captain Obvious]

Not even close.

It was spot on, you just can't see it past the indoctrination.

You also implied that it's acceptable to raise kids wanting to be gay but raising them wanting to be straight is unacceptable.

[Mister D]

I didn't expose my kids to violent movies also.

Fail
I remember having to sneak downstairs to the family room to watch The Terminator and Conan the Barbarian when the coast was clear.

[Chris]

To me the problem with identity politics--what's being promoted here--is it abstracts from the realities of life, like raising kids. It also seems to want to poison the well by associating protecting kids with being anti-gay or even anti-feminist.

[Mister D]

To me the problem with identity politics--what's being promoted here--is it abstracts from the realities of life, like raising kids. It also seems to want to poison the well by associating protecting kids with being anti-gay or even anti-feminist.
Sure does.

[Captain Obvious]

Indoctrination test for Standing Wolf , answer honestly.

Which answer to the following question makes your sphincter tighten the most?

I do not want my child to grow up to be (a):

A) Republican
B) Christian
C) Heterosexual
D) Gay

[Archer0915]

How about, "You're old enough to see people being machine-gunned down, strangled to death and blown up, but not to see a movie where the heroine might sometimes feel like kissing a girl"?
How about they do not watch that shit either!I made the mistake one time... Batman v/s superman...

No BS gun-play or crazy violence.

You really like to try and twist things to make yourself look all high and mighty, I suggest you not try it with me because it is a FAIL.

[Private Pickle]

Well thank you for all the replies, everyone! The conservatives have made this thread as entertaining as the Wonder Woman movie. :grin: I will just say a few things:

1) Given the epic meltdown over this matter, no one here has the right to label me a "snowflake" ever again. E-VAR!

That statement is contradictory in nature. The fact that you had to make it is somewhat "snowflakey".


2) As to the matter of evidence that Wonder Woman is bisexual, the OP supplied my evidence in a link. Namely, the people who make the comic book say she is. I consider that strong evidence.

Could it be that the publicity around this forced their hand? I'm not sure. I'm just wondering.


3) Perhaps most amusingly, it's not like a single one of the critics of this petition actually appreciates what Wonder Woman is about anyway, being that she is a feminist icon known to appear of Gloria Steinem's Ms. magazine and they're all anti-feminists: Archer, Cletus, Captain Obvious, Mister D, resister, Perianne, Nathan. These are all people who hate feminism! I don't think Wonder Woman was made with such people in mind as the target demographic! What's more, I doubt that most of you have even seen the film or read any of the comics before or know anything at all about the character! You'll forgive me for taking the opinions of such a demographic on this subject less seriously.

I've seen the filmS she has been in where she portrayed Wonder Woman. I didn't get the vibe at all that she was a feminist. A strong independent female sure. But she didn't yell at the valet because he opened the car door for her...

4) I've seen a lot of remarks here that describe non-heterosexual people like they're a gimmick. I get what some people are suggesting about the possibility of tokenization, but I'm just saying that we should say it that way rather than talking about people like their existence is a kind of corporate trick.

A corporate trick? What does that even mean?

5) It's very obvious that the opponents of this petition just simply hate bisexual people and don't know why.

That is all.

I think that's a generalization and bigoted in nature. You seem to think that your brand of bigotry is OK because you direct it at white males. It isn't.

[Standing Wolf]

Actually honesty is telling them that there are concepts that are beyond their comprehension.

While it is no doubt more social imitation than nature at that age, most five-year-olds understand very well what "liking girls" or "liking boys" means. That isn't really the concept that you believe is "beyond their comprehension".

[Standing Wolf]

So if I allow my kids to grow up and make their own decisions I am hurting them simply because I do not allow them to be influenced by leftists? Got it! You want the right out of your bedroom but you want the left to be allowed into the minds of children! Double standard much?

In terms of posts in this thread that make pretty much zero sense, I believe you are now the front-runner.

[Standing Wolf]

It was spot on, you just can't see it past the indoctrination.

You also implied that it's acceptable to raise kids wanting to be gay but raising them wanting to be straight is unacceptable.

Huh? C.O., exactly where did I - or anyone else in this thread - imply that it isn't "acceptable" to raise kids to want to be straight?

[Standing Wolf]

Indoctrination test for @Standing Wolf (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1791) , answer honestly.

Which answer to the following question makes your sphincter tighten the most?

I do not want my child to grow up to be (a):

A) Republican
B) Christian
C) Heterosexual
D) Gay

C.O., I've got five children, all adults, ages 26 to 42. Their political and religious views and their sexual orientations are their own business. I'm honestly not sure how to answer your question. I have to say that I'm not entirely sure that the question was asked in good faith.

[Captain Obvious]

C.O., I've got five children, all adults, ages 26 to 42. Their political and religious views and their sexual orientations are their own business. I'm honestly not sure how to answer your question. I have to say that I'm not entirely sure that the question was asked in good faith.

It wasn't not asked in good faith but my point is proven.

"Children" generally refers to young, minor children as was in this instance.

Let's keep the goal posts where they are, thank you.

[Captain Obvious]

Huh? C.O., exactly where did I - or anyone else in this thread - imply that it isn't "acceptable" to raise kids to want to be straight?

I hate spoon feeding. Honestly?

You are chastizing people for shielding their children from the subject of homosexuality.

Why?

[IMPress Polly]

Captain Obvious wrote:
How am I anti-feminist?

I've said before, there are two kinds of feminists, the destructive "anti-male" type and the constructive "pro-woman" type.


And plugging WW as a bi - what does that have anything to do with feminism?

You say the most out-of-left-field things sometimes.


Mister D wrote:
Since no one knows what feminism is I can't really object to a meaningless label like "anti-feminist".


Chris wrote:
But we do know that pro-life feminists are not true feminists.

*snickers*

As helpful as this mansplaining session has been, somehow I feel better qualified to define what the movement is about, as a fairly long-time actual participant therein. To use Dictionary.com's apt definition, feminism is "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men." And yes, as far as the modern-day women's movement is concerned, that includes women of all different sexual orientations.


Captain Obvious wrote:
I could care less what they stage Wonder Woman as in movies, if it's a shamefully identity plugged film, meh. I'll add it to the other thousands of movies I'll never watch. When I watch a movie I want a number of things in it. Entertainment value, realism, off-the-wall originality are some of them. A social agenda isn't one of them and if that's your thing, cool. I get it, you like what you like but you can't expect your views and likes to be appreciated by all.

First let me just say this: I observe that conservatives have a tendency to confuse all action films with female leads with being "feminist" in nature. That's just not the case. As I highlighted above, feminism is very much about advocacy. Films like the Hunger Games movies or the current crop of Star Wars films don't engage in advocacy around women's rights. They just have female lead characters in action roles.

That said, Wonder Woman does, by contrast, qualify as a feminist movie in that it includes significant advocacy elements around the promotion of women's advancement. A lot of them are humorous; done in the form of casually poking fun of sexist attitudes and norms. The main form and expression of it isn't super heavy-handed, but it's definitely there, vaguely resembling the Mad Max: Fury Road template:

In Mad Max: Fury Road, men have destroyed the world and it's up to a community of women (aided by two good men who have been alienated from their previous "normal" existence) to save them from the consequences. Similarly, in Wonder Woman, men are in the process of destroying the world and it is up to a goddess from a utopian, all-female society to intervene and save "the world of men" from men. Women in these movies represent empathy and the crux of them both is that that is precisely what world needs more of. There are different nuances to this in the respective films, of course. Where Mad Max: Fury Road presents human beings as basically good-natured, but vulnerable to manipulation, the Wonder Woman movie thematically concludes that people are basically blank slates when it comes to the matter of morality. But in both cases, it strongly appears to be of some thematic importance that women are the ones primarily responsible for bringing out people's better sides, though as much is not laid on unbecomingly thick. So that's what you're in for.

Personally, I think it was altogether fitting and proper that the first "tent pole" superhero movie to star a female character in the lead role should include these types of elements. It certainly made the experience more all-around fun and satisfying to me.

[Mister D]

Polly cites the dictionary again. Gee, who saw that coming? :rollseyes:


"the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men."

Wow that was helpful. lol

[Mister D]

I hate spoon feeding. Honestly?

You are chastizing people for shielding their children from the subject of homosexuality.

Why?
because they want it normalized.

[Kalkin]

I find feminists funny. For the most part, they appear to be the frustrated women who dislike "beauty privilege" and the spineless men who want to score with them.

[Captain Obvious]

*snickers*

As helpful as this mansplaining session has been, somehow I feel better qualified to define what the movement is about, as a fairly long-time actual participant therein. To use Dictionary.com's apt definition, feminism is "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men." And yes, as far as the modern-day women's movement is concerned, that includes women of all different sexual orientations.



First let me just say this: I observe that conservatives have a tendency to confuse all action films with female leads with being "feminist" in nature. That's just not the case. As I highlighted above, feminism is very much about advocacy. Films like the Hunger Games movies or the current crop of Star Wars films don't engage in advocacy around women's rights. They just have female lead characters in action roles.

That said, Wonder Woman does, by contrast, qualify as a feminist movie in that it includes significant advocacy elements around the promotion of women's advancement. A lot of them are humorous; done in the form of casually poking fun of sexist attitudes. The main form and expression of it isn't super heavy-handed, but it's definitely there, vaguely resembling the Mad Max: Fury Road template:

In Mad Max: Fury Road, men have destroyed the world and it is up to a community of women (aided by two good men who have been alienated from their previous "normal" existence) to save them from the consequences. Similarly, in Wonder Woman, men are in the process of destroying the world and it is up to a goddess from utopian, all-female society to intervene and save "the world of men" from men. Women in these movies represent empathy and the crux of them both is that that is precisely what world needs more of. There are different nuances to this in the respective films, of course. Where Mad Max: Fury Road presents human beings as basically good-natured, but vulnerable to manipulation, the Wonder Woman movie thematically concludes that people are basically blank slates when it comes to the matter of morality. But in both cases, it strongly appears to be of some thematic importance that women are the ones primarily responsible for bringing out people's better sides, though as much is not laid on unbecomingly thick. So that's what you're in for.

Personally, I think it was altogether fitting and proper that the first "tent pole" superhero movie to star a female character in the lead role should include these types of elements. It certainly made the experience more all-around fun and satisfying to me.

What the...

[Captain Obvious]

because they want it normalized.

Took a lot of dancing strawmen to get to this point lol.

[Standing Wolf]

I hate spoon feeding. Honestly?

You are chastizing people for shielding their children from the subject of homosexuality.

Why?

I'm suggesting that, in my opinion, people who choose to "shield" their children from anything simply be honest about their reasons for doing so.

The statement that "they're too young to understand" is a total cop-out.

[Adelaide]

I find feminists funny. For the most part, they appear to be the frustrated women who dislike "beauty privilege" and the spineless men who want to score with them.
That's rude.

[Kalkin]

That's rude.

I said "for the most part", and I'll stick by my observation. Sorry if it hit a nerve, but you are not one of the feminists I've described.

[Ethereal]

If it gets Gal Gadot to make out with other chicks on screen, then I'm all for it.

[IMPress Polly]

Kalkin wrote:
I find feminists funny. For the most part, they appear to be the frustrated women who dislike "beauty privilege" and the spineless men who want to score with them.

Not even the cartoonishly fanatical misogynists at Return of Kings are dumb enough to characterized feminists as broadly ugly (http://www.returnofkings.com/96632/4-types-of-women-within-the-femininity-matrix).

For my part, I view women who aren't feminists either as self-loathing, spineless go-alongs or traitors who have achieved power and influence in a male-dominated world and slam the door shut behind them.

I also sometimes find misogyny funny when I'm in the right mood. That fact right there is much of why I so enjoy films like Mad Max: Fury Road, the Ghostbusters remake, and the classic Disney cartoon Mulan (which pokes fun at these things in the form of song; reportedly, a live-action remake is in the works!).

[Mister D]

Not even the fanatical misogynists at Return of Kings are dumb enough to characterized feminists as broadly ugly (http://www.returnofkings.com/96632/4-types-of-women-within-the-femininity-matrix).

For my part, I view women who aren't feminists either as self-loathing, spineless go-alongs or traitors who have achieved power and influence in a male-dominated world and slam the door shut behind them.

Not a psycho. lol

[Captain Obvious]

I'm suggesting that, in my opinion, people who choose to "shield" their children from anything simply be honest about their reasons for doing so.

The statement that "they're too young to understand" is a total cop-out.

That they want their kids to be heteros?

Boom! Back to my valid point made earlier, thank you.

So I guess not showing children gay porn is a cop out also?

Unbelieveable

[Kalkin]

For my part, I view women who aren't feminists either as self-loathing, spineless go-alongs or traitors who have achieved power and influence in a male-dominated world and slam the door shut behind them.

So you're as dismissive and insulting to women you disagree with as those you hypocritically malign. Well played.

[Captain Obvious]

If it gets Gal Gadot to make out with other chicks on screen, then I'm all for it.

The first post approaching sanity in this thread

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

So you're as dismissive and insulting to women you disagree with as those you hypocritically malign. Well played.
Polly and one of her compatriots have heaped scorn on stay at moms. Once you push them far enough the contempt REALLY comes out.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Fans of Wonder Woman have started a petition on Change.org calling on Warner Bros. to clearly acknowledge the bisexual orientation of Gal Gadot's character in future Wonder Woman movies (https://www.themarysue.com/warner-bros-wonder-woman-bisexuality-petition/), as apparently Diana is bisexual in the comic books (https://www.themarysue.com/rucka-$#@!-wonder-woman/). So far, it has garnered some 5,700 signatures. Gal Gadot has, in the past, said that she would support such a move (https://www.themarysue.com/gal-gadot-bi-wonder-woman/).

As a strong supporter of this idea, I just wanted to supply any fans here with the petition (https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-make-wonder-woman-bisexual) for consideration. Here's an excerpt describing some of the motivations behind its creation:
No, and if the original conception of the character was bisexual, that's just more or a possible rationale for Wonder Woman films not to be created at all.

And for what it's worth, most comic books are really just mind-numbing nonsense marketed at a dumbed-down, ADHD audience, so the idea of promoting some type of trendy "cause" like diversity to an audience which doesn't have an attention span for anything deeper than Family Guy is hilarious to begin with.

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
Polly and one of her compatriots have heaped scorn on stay at moms.

Where?

I have "heaped scorn" on the stigmatization of working women, yes, but that is different.

[Mister D]

Where?
Don't feel like looking for it. You did it. So did a buddy of your's.

[Archer0915]

While it is no doubt more social imitation than nature at that age, most five-year-olds understand very well what "liking girls" or "liking boys" means. That isn't really the concept that you believe is "beyond their comprehension".
But boys kissing boys and girls kissing girls? Sorry I do my best to keep them away from sexual content no matter the type.

And yes you are damn right it is beyond their comprehension. Look at the suicide rate among these confused young people! Yay go gay agenda! It is on you!

[Mister D]

Besides, Polly, you just fucking heaped scorn on everyone who doesn't agree with you! I mean is it really so unbelievable? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

[resister]

Don't feel like looking for it. You did it. So did a buddy of your's.
Who let her out of the kitchen? That sammich aint gonna make itself and that beer aint gonna sprout wings and fly to my hand! :)

[Mister D]

Who let her out of the kitchen? That sammich aint gonna make itself and that beer aint gonna sprout wings and fly to my hand! :)
Seriously, she denies doing this after making this comment!



Not even the cartoonishly fanatical misogynists at Return of Kings are dumb enough to characterized feminists as broadly ugly (http://www.returnofkings.com/96632/4-types-of-women-within-the-femininity-matrix).

For my part, I view women who aren't feminists either as self-loathing, spineless go-alongs or traitors who have achieved power and influence in a male-dominated world and slam the door shut behind them.

I also sometimes find misogyny funny when I'm in the right mood. That fact right there is much of why I so enjoy films like Mad Max: Fury Road, the Ghostbusters remake, and the classic Disney cartoon Mulan (which pokes fun at these things in the form of song; reportedly, a live-action remake is in the works!).

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Not even the cartoonishly fanatical misogynists at Return of Kings are dumb enough to characterized feminists as broadly ugly (http://www.returnofkings.com/96632/4-types-of-women-within-the-femininity-matrix).

The average woman who isn't ugly wouldn't be a "feminist" to begin with.

Just like the average male who isn't obese and living with mommy wouldn't kiss the arse of someone like "Roosh V"

"Feminists" in the modern incarnation are generally just the drecks of the female sex, who society would be off without.

For my part, I view women who aren't feminists either as self-loathing, spineless go-alongs or traitors who have achieved power and influence in a male-dominated world and slam the door shut behind them.

Cute, but no one care's what your think, nor does your white male boss care beyond what helps him increase his profits to his white male shareholders when he isn't golfing on the weekends or grabbing his secretary by the "pussy".

Given that feminism in its modern incarnation is primarily hocked via large media companies, dominated by rich white males, and tends to reduce broader feminist ideas such as "self-actualization" into simple promotion of achieving 'independence' via purely corporate things, any woman who seriously buys into the fallacy that the white male media executives really care about "women's liberation" or anything beyond their bottom line is what I'd call self loathing.

It's just been trendy for corporations to hop on the "feminist" bandwagon with media campaigns since the end of WWII, once they realized how much they could increase profits to their white male shareholders by encouraging more women to enter the corporate workforce full time.

Likewise, the white male executives behind fluff like "Wonder Woman" also know there's a trendy demographic of naive "feminists" out their who they can milk for profit by adding a token "feminist" to a movie, all the whist oblivious to the fact that the same company which produced "Wonder Woman" (Warner Bros) also produced films full of misogynist humor like "The Hangover":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros.#Film_library

Plus there are just as many horny 13 year old boys watching Wonder Woman as their are "feminists", so the corporate execs know they can hit 2 demographics at once.

[NapRover]

No one should be bisexual.

[Adelaide]

Not even the cartoonishly fanatical misogynists at Return of Kings are dumb enough to characterized feminists as broadly ugly (http://www.returnofkings.com/96632/4-types-of-women-within-the-femininity-matrix).

For my part, I view women who aren't feminists either as self-loathing, spineless go-alongs or traitors who have achieved power and influence in a male-dominated world and slam the door shut behind them.

I also sometimes find misogyny funny when I'm in the right mood. That fact right there is much of why I so enjoy films like Mad Max: Fury Road, the Ghostbusters remake, and the classic Disney cartoon Mulan (which pokes fun at these things in the form of song; reportedly, a live-action remake is in the works!).

That's not quite fair, especially when it is subjective who is or is not a feminist. Most women do not post on forums like this and never really get the opportunity to voice their opinions as it pertains to feminism. It is impossible to know who is or is not a feminist in most real-life encounters.

There are also many different types of feminism.

[Adelaide]

The average woman who isn't ugly wouldn't be a "feminist" to begin with.

Just like the average male who isn't obese and living with mommy wouldn't kiss the arse of someone like "Roosh V"

"Feminists" in the modern incarnation are the drecks of the female sex, who society would be off without. More of them dying in abortion would just be gene pool cleansing, which is all the more reason to ban it.

Cute, but no one care's what your think, nor does your white male boss care beyond what helps him increase his profits to his white male shareholders when he isn't golfing on the weekends or grabbing his secretary by the "pussy".

:f_doh:

Geeze...

[Captain Obvious]

No one should be bisexual.

Doubles your chances of scoring on a saturday night

[Green Arrow]

No one should be bisexual.

That may very well be, but some of us are. Sorry, not sorry.

[Captain Obvious]

:f_doh:

Geeze...

* passes the mind bleach *

[jimmyz]

Is Masculinism a thing?

[Chris]

The problem isn't sexual so much as political .

[Adelaide]

* passes the mind bleach *
Going to require something stonger, I think.

[resister]

Doubles your chances of scoring on a saturday night
And the plethora of STDs that the promiscuous can look forward to!

[resister]

Going to require something stonger, I think.
Crown Royal? Her Majesty approves! :)

[Devil'sAdvocate]

:f_doh:

Geeze...
What's wrong with that assessment? What does a pig like this really contribute to society beyond bad smells, welfare debt, and a flatulant carbon footprint the size of Halliburton?

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/fat-ugly-feminist.jpg

"Identity politics" of every shape tend to attract the dumbest and least useful members of society, much as white nationalism, modern identitarian "feminism" is no different in that regard. Most of the same idiots who identify as "feminist" would be wearing sheets and chanting "white lives matter", and claiming any white person is "self-loathing" if had they'd happened to be born white and male

Any productive, self-confident person doesn't fall back on a "tribe" or "gang" for their entire sense of identity, only those too weak and purposeless in life to stand on their own two feet base their entire identity around fluff like and sex, race - usually because they have no other accomplishments to name.

That's why you rarely see any actual female engineers, artists, scientists, governors showing up at "feminist" rallies, usually just obese 'gender studies' grads who've never had a real job beyond Waffle Shop or the local strip club.

[Green Arrow]

What's wrong with that assessment? What does a pig like this really contribute to society beyond bad smells, welfare debt, and a flatulant carbon footprint the size of Halliburton?

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/fat-ugly-feminist.jpg

"Identity politics" of every shape tend to attract the dumbest and least useful members of society, much as white nationalism, modern identitarian "feminism" is no different in that regard. Most of the same idiots who identify as "feminist" would be wearing sheets and chanting "white lives matter", and claiming any white person is "self-loathing" if had they'd happened to be born white and male

Any productive, self-confident person doesn't fall back on a "tribe" or "gang" for their entire sense of identity, only those too weak and purposeless in life to stand on their own two feet base their entire identity around fluff like and sex, race - usually because they have no other accomplishments to name.

That's why you rarely see any actual female engineers, artists, scientists, governors showing up at "feminist" rallies, usually just obese 'gender studies' grads who've never had a real job beyond Waffle Shop or the local strip club.
Adelaide, forget resister's offer of Crown Royal, vodka or moonshine is more appropriate.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Again, no one can explain the logic in why any actually successful woman would care about the plight of some overweight feminist who's never held a real job who blames the mythical "patriarchy" for why she's such a failure at life.

Anymore than any actual successful male would care about the plight of some overweight, single "Return of Kings" poster who think he's oppressed by the "matriarchy" or entitled to sex.

Why are there never any female astronauts, CEOs, entrepreneurs showing up at "feminist" rallies?

[IMPress Polly]

Adelaide wrote:
That's not quite fair, especially when it is subjective who is or is not a feminist. Most women do not post on forums like this and never really get the opportunity to voice their opinions as it pertains to feminism. It is impossible to know who is or is not a feminist in most real-life encounters.

There are also many different types of feminism.

While I have my own views within said milieu, basically if you call yourself a feminist, I consider you to be one. I tend to take the same attitude toward religion and politics in general. If you call yourself a Christian, my instinct is to regard you as one, for example. I go for pretty much the most inclusive definition that I can precisely because there are all these different schools of thought. It's worth pointing out that only like one-third of the female population considers themselves to be feminists when surveyed on the subject. That's the distinction that I was referring to.

(No, that doesn't mean I despise the majority of women. It just means I think that the majority are in need of some education and encouragement.)

[resister]

@Adelaide (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=473), forget @resister (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2122)'s offer of Crown Royal, vodka or moonshine is more appropriate.I'm pretty damn good at drinking, but a gallon of shine would not be nearly, enough.*brain needs shower, shudders*

[Chris]

Again, no one can explain the logic in why any actually successful woman would care about the plight of some overweight feminist who's never held a real job who blames the mythical "patriarchy" for why she's such a failure at life.

Anymore than any actual successful male would care about the plight of some overweight, single "Return of Kings" poster who think he's oppressed by the "matriarchy" or entitled to sex.

Why are there never any female astronauts, CEOs, entrepreneurs showing up at "feminist" rallies?

Because there's no logic to your strawman.

Are pro-life feminists overweights who never held a real job and blame the mythical "patriarchy"? Hardly.


I agree about identity politics even though identitarians are European alt-right pissed off their way of life has been forced to change by the influx of immigrants into their once homgenous nations.

When I say sexual is not the problem, it's political, I mean pathological identity politics.

[Captain Obvious]

What's wrong with that assessment? What does a pig like this really contribute to society beyond bad smells, welfare debt, and a flatulant carbon footprint the size of Halliburton?

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/fat-ugly-feminist.jpg

"Identity politics" of every shape tend to attract the dumbest and least useful members of society, much as white nationalism, modern identitarian "feminism" is no different in that regard. Most of the same idiots who identify as "feminist" would be wearing sheets and chanting "white lives matter", and claiming any white person is "self-loathing" if had they'd happened to be born white and male

Any productive, self-confident person doesn't fall back on a "tribe" or "gang" for their entire sense of identity, only those too weak and purposeless in life to stand on their own two feet base their entire identity around fluff like and sex, race - usually because they have no other accomplishments to name.

That's why you rarely see any actual female engineers, artists, scientists, governors showing up at "feminist" rallies, usually just obese 'gender studies' grads who've never had a real job beyond Waffle Shop or the local strip club.

#luvchunXXX

[Mister D]

By Polly's dictionary definition virtually everyone is a feminist. It's a cute game she plays but she's bad at it. What she really means by "feminist" is not particularly attractive to many women.

[Chris]

While I have my own views within said milieu, basically if you call yourself a feminist, I consider you to be one. I tend to take the same attitude toward religion and politics in general. If you call yourself a Christian, my instinct is to regard you as one, for example. I go for pretty much the most inclusive definition that I can, precisely because there are all these different schools of thought. It's worth pointing out that only like one-third of the female population considers themselves to be feminists when surveyed on the subject. That's the distinction that I was referring to.

(No, that doesn't mean I despise the majority of women. It just means I think that the majority are in need of some education and encouragement.)


Ah, goody, you now accept pro-life feminists at their word!! Good for you.

[resister]

#luvchunks
You know you would hit it! Bet you would also...never mind:)

[Mister D]

Ah, goody, you now accept pro-life feminists at their word!! Good for you.

She is so dishonest.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

, basically if you call yourself a feminist, I consider you to be one.
"I'm a feminist and I believe rape is a man's right and that women should be stoned for adultery."

/sarcasm

[Archer0915]

You know you would hit it! Bet you would also...never mind:)
Flag over face and do it for ole glory.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Ah, goody, you now accept pro-life feminists at their word!! Good for you.
I think "pro-choice feminist" is an oxymoron myself, given that abortion results in the murder of more women than rapists do.

Claiming to be a "feminist" and supporting abortion, would be like claiming to be a "Jew" and supporting the Holocaust.

Not to mention, medical abortion was originally popularized in the West by a convicted rapist and sex offender Marquis de Sade, who was an author who wrote in favor of rape and sexual violence (his name is where sexual "sadism" comes from):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6990001

In 1795 the Marquis de Sade published his La Philosophic dans le boudoir, in which he proposed the use of induced abortion for social reasons and as a means of population control. It is from this time that medical and social acceptance of abortion can be dated, although previously the subject had not been discussed in public in modern times. It is suggested that it was largely due to de Sade's writing that induced abortion received the impetus which resulted in its subsequent spread in western society.

[Archer0915]

"I'm a feminist and I believe rape is a man's right and that women should be stoned for adultery."
No! No! No! You are a Muslim!

[Adelaide]

I think "pro-choice feminist" is an oxymoron myself, given that abortion results in the murder of more women than rapists do.

Claiming to be a "feminist" and supporting abortion, would be like claiming to be a "Jew" and supporting the Holocaust.

Not to mention, medical abortion was originally popularized in the West by a convicted rapist and sex offender Marquis de Sade, who was an author who wrote in favor of rape and sexual violence (his name is where sexual "sadism" comes from):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6990001

In 1795 the Marquis de Sade published his La Philosophic dans le boudoir, in which he proposed the use of induced abortion for social reasons and as a means of population control. It is from this time that medical and social acceptance of abortion can be dated, although previously the subject had not been discussed in public in modern times. It is suggested that it was largely due to de Sade's writing that induced abortion received the impetus which resulted in its subsequent spread in western society.


You really seem obsessed with rape. Every conversation seems to lead there with you.

[Captain Obvious]

You really seem obsessed with rape. Every conversation seems to lead there with you.

One trick horse

[Devil'sAdvocate]

No! No! No! You are a Muslim!
"How dare you disrespect my religion you Islamophobe!"

[Devil'sAdvocate]

You really seem obsessed with rape. Every conversation seems to lead there with you.
Yes, my aim's to demonstrate how the mind which commits rape and the mind which supports abortion both originate from the same worldview steeped in evil.

Meaning that ideally, one who supports elective abortion should be looked at with the same degree of social stigma as one who supports a man's right to "rape".

[Adelaide]

Yes, I think that materialism, rape, and abortion, all inanimate from the same worldview steeped in evil, and that revealing the the mindset of those who support abortion are the same as the mindset of those who rape and kill the innocent to satiate their own vices exposes what they really are, so now instead of pretending to "tolerate" them and their "views", we can just view them as evil not worthy of any further understanding and remove them from society as we would rapists, terrorists, Nazis or any other scourge.


How would you rationalize someone who is pro-choice but also a sexual assault survivor?

You think that people who support pro-choice movements are as bad as terrorists and Nazis and rapists? Hyperbole, much?

[Archer0915]

"How dare you disrespect my religion you Islamophobe!"
Hey man! I am not dissin you! Just do not touch my women! You can rape and kill all the libs you want, they invited you here. Now come sniffin round my door?

20169

[Devil'sAdvocate]

How would you rationalize someone who is pro-choice but also a sexual assault survivor?

You think that people who support pro-choice movements are as bad as terrorists and Nazis and rapists? Hyperbole, much?
As bad as terrorists themselves? No.

As bad as Germans who passively permitted and enabled the Nazis and the Holocaust? Possibly.


Plus we're talking about purely elective abortion, not abortion in extreme circumstances.

[Adelaide]

As bad as terrorists themselves? No.

As bad as Germans who passively permitted and enabled the Nazis and the Holocaust? Possibly.


Plus we're talking about purely elective abortion, not abortion in extreme circumstances.

You didn't answer my first question.

Why isn't it still murder in "extreme circumstances"? That seems inconsistent when you're comparing woman to Nazis.

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
By Polly's dictionary definition virtually everyone is a feminist. It's a cute game she plays but she's bad at it. What she really means by "feminist" is not particularly attractive to many women.

Not really. Most people would claim to be egalitarian when it comes to gender relations, but at the same time, the majority (including yourself) reject the idea of advocacy, as advocacy presumes that equality has not already been realized. You see the difference? If your definition of equality is the status quo, no you count as a feminist and probably won't identify yourself as one either. You have to recognize that a problem exists first and that the problem isn't just your attitude toward life or something, but structural in nature.


Chris wrote:
Ah, goody, you now accept pro-life feminists at their word!! Good for you.

Well...I wouldn't go that far. I did qualify my previous statement with the word "basically" for a reason. There exists a baseline set of views that the women's movement agrees on across its various schools of thought. Those who cannot reach agreement with the baseline tend to be regarded as frauds. Reproductive rights are part of the commonly agreed-upon baseline. Some other parts of the baseline include the demand for stronger equal pay and paid maternity and family leave laws and continuing the Violence Against Women Act.

This doesn't mean that you can't be a feminist and a Republican at the same time, but it is very rare. I would characterize Senator Susan Collins of Maine as a feminist Republican. I would, however, characterize former Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, however, as a fraud because, while she sometimes employed the rhetoric of the women's movement, she opposed all policy solutions that could conceivably advance women's rights and interests in any way.

The genuinely contentious issues in the women's movement today are things like transgender politics and the sex industry. There are real divides between the more liberal and the more radical camps on those subjects. There are also real divides between the liberal and radical camps on economics, with the former embracing neoliberal capitalism and making boardroom politics a big focus and the latter being socialist and much more concerned with issues like the feminization of poverty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminization_of_poverty). The liberal versus radical debate is essentially one over the extent to which the movement should embrace individualism versus recognize and act on general interests above and beyond the agreed-upon baseline set of issues and policy solutions.


Devil's Advocate wrote:
"I'm a feminist and I believe rape is a man's right and that women should be stoned for adultery."

/sarcasm

See above!

[Devil'sAdvocate]

You didn't answer my first question.

Why isn't it still murder in "extreme circumstances"? That seems inconsistent when you're comparing woman to Nazis.
Killing to safe a life is typically viewed as self-defense, much as killing a Nazi to save the life of concentration camp victims.

For what it's worth, I think "Impress" has got to be one of the most mind-numbingly deluded posters I've come across on any website. Not to mention they don't seem to care about facts, but just ignore the inconvinent ones, such as how "Anita Sarkeesian" used to work with an organization that published "pick-up artist" materials. This is why modern feminism should just be banned or classified as a cult like Scientology

[Adelaide]

Killing to safe a life is typically viewed as self-defense, much as killing a Nazi to save the life of concentration camp victims.

Still didn't answer my first question.

What makes the mother's life more important than the child's, in your view? Seems hypocritical.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Still didn't answer my first question.

What makes the mother's life more important than the child's, in your view? Seems hypocritical.
I don't see any way to judge the "worth" of individual lives adequately, but I think allowing abortion purely to save a life could be viewed as a simple issue of common sense.

[Chris]

Not really. Most people would claim to be egalitarian when it comes to gender relations, but at the same time, the majority (including yourself) reject the idea of advocacy, as advocacy presumes that equality has not already been realized. You see the difference? If your definition of equality is the status quo, no you count as a feminist and probably won't identify yourself as one either. You have to recognize that a problem exists first and that the problem isn't just your attitude toward life or something, but structural in nature.



Well...I wouldn't go that far. I did qualify my previous statement with the word "basically" for a reason. There exists a baseline set of views that the women's movement agrees on across its various schools of thought. Those who cannot reach agreement with the baseline tend to be regarded as frauds. Reproductive rights are part of the commonly agreed-upon baseline. Some other parts of the baseline include the demand for stronger equal pay and paid maternity and family leave laws and continuing the Violence Against Women Act.

This doesn't mean that you can't be a feminist and a Republican at the same time, but it is very rare. I would characterize Senator Susan Collins of Maine as a feminist Republican. I would, however, characterize former Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, however, as a fraud because, while she sometimes employed the rhetoric of the women's movement, she opposed all policy solutions that could conceivably advance women's rights and interests in any way.

The genuinely contentious issues in the women's movement today are things like transgender politics and the sex industry. There are real divides between the more liberal and the more radical camps on those subjects. There are also real divides between the liberal and radical camps on economics, with the former embracing neoliberal capitalism and making boardroom politics a big focus and the latter being socialist and much more concerned with issues like the feminization of poverty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminization_of_poverty). The liberal versus radical debate is essentially one over the extent to which the movement should embrace individualism versus recognize and act on general interests above and beyond the agreed-upon baseline set of issues and policy solutions.



See above!

I appreciate your clarification, your, well, discrimination.

Yes, there are baselines. But while you get to define yours, you don't get to define others. Nor do you get to rewrite hisotry, for the women's movement, as it ought to be called, was never about reproductive rights until fairly recently. It was more about the franchise and work and property and legal rights. I recall this because when Mary Tyler Moore died there was much said about her being a feminist who rejected the new shift in meaning of feminism. Back in the 70s she said:


“I want to mention my Gloria Steinem experience. She thought that I was 100% on Betty Friedan’s train. And I really wasn’t. I believed that women—and I still do—have a very major role to play as mothers. It’s very necessary for mothers to be involved with their children. And that’s not what Gloria Steinem was saying. Gloria was saying oh, you can have everything, and you owe it to yourself to have a career. And I didn’t really believe in that, so that was a little difficult for me. Well, I just had to say no.”

@ http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/26/mary-tyler-moore-rejected-the-feminism-of-gloria-steinem-and-betty-friedan/

She was a good, strong, positive influnce on women, I think.


I said nothing about being a Republican or the identity politics you drift off on.

[Standing Wolf]

That they want their kids to be heteros?

I've already provided an example of what someone with that mindset might say. Something along the lines of "Some girls like girls instead of boys, or maybe they like both, and I don't want you seeing people like that and thinking that it's okay". That's an honest expression of why someone would "shield" their kids from going to see a bi WW.


Boom!

Did you blow up?


Back to my valid point made earlier, thank you.

Glad you think you made a valid point, Cap, although I must admit I'm not seeing it.


So I guess not showing children gay porn is a cop out also?

http://www.artsjournal.com/engage/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/StrawMan.jpg

[Adelaide]

I don't see any way to judge the "worth" of individual lives adequately, but I think allowing abortion purely to save a life could be viewed as a simple issue of common sense.
If you're killing one to save the other, it seems like you are applying worth... but that would go against your belief about abortion, in general.

Still not answering my question? Cognitive dissonance?

[Standing Wolf]

But boys kissing boys and girls kissing girls? Sorry I do my best to keep them away from sexual content no matter the type.

Meaning you don't let your kids - assuming that you actually have kids, and this isn't all just a hypothetical for you - watch animated Disney films because Bell kisses the Beast or the heroine kisses some prince or other? Really?


And yes you are damn right it is beyond their comprehension. Look at the suicide rate among these confused young people! Yay go gay agenda! It is on you!

You think it's the people supporting gay, bi or trans young people who are causing them to commit suicide? Again - really?

[nathanbforrest45]

Again, no one can explain the logic in why any actually successful woman would care about the plight of some overweight feminist who's never held a real job who blames the mythical "patriarchy" for why she's such a failure at life.

Anymore than any actual successful male would care about the plight of some overweight, single "Return of Kings" poster who think he's oppressed by the "matriarchy" or entitled to sex.

Why are there never any female astronauts, CEOs, entrepreneurs showing up at "feminist" rallies?

Too busy becoming successful by their own efforts.

[nathanbforrest45]

How would you rationalize someone who is pro-choice but also a sexual assault survivor?

You think that people who support pro-choice movements are as bad as terrorists and Nazis and rapists? Hyperbole, much?
They have been responsible for more deaths overall so yes I would think that

[Devil'sAdvocate]

You think it's the people supporting gay, bi or trans young people who are causing them to commit suicide? Again - really?
More like coercing young people with mental difficulties into identifying as trans illegitimately.

The majority of self-identified "trans" people have never had any legitimate medical diagnoses and never would have had that notion if it weren't to some rubbish they were exposed to in the media, or weren't being coached into it by "activist" parents or authority figures.

[Hal Jordan]

No, and if the original conception of the character was bisexual, that's just more or a possible rationale for Wonder Woman films not to be created at all.

And for what it's worth, most comic books are really just mind-numbing nonsense marketed at a dumbed-down, ADHD audience, so the idea of promoting some type of trendy "cause" like diversity to an audience which doesn't have an attention span for anything deeper than Family Guy is hilarious to begin with.

...

What? Do you really believe that? The truth is the complete opposite.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Meaning you don't let your kids - assuming that you actually have kids, and this isn't all just a hypothetical for you - watch animated Disney films because Bell kisses the Beast or the heroine kisses some prince or other? Really?


Problem with this is that it's based on the premise that homosexual kissing is "equal" to heterosexual kissing, even though that's a meaningless descriptor, and in practice, homosexuality is more likely to occur in aberrant circumstances.

The reality is just that there are a minority of individuals who "want" it to be considered equal irregardless of realities (biological or otherwise), not any legitimate basis for that supposition.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

...

What? Do you really believe that? The truth is the complete opposite.
No I really do believe that, on the whole, comic books are marketed to the same type of audience that watches Family Guy or Adult Swim.

And there were more people watching Wonder Woman for masturbatory fantasies than there were people watching it to "support feminism".

That's the entire reason the character was designed to wear a skimpy leotard costume from the get-go; you have to include a little something to keep the 13 year old boys reading the comic, who are the primary demographic of the entire industry.

[Captain Obvious]

I've already provided an example of what someone with that mindset might say. Something along the lines of "Some girls like girls instead of boys, or maybe they like both, and I don't want you seeing people like that and thinking that it's okay". That's an honest expression of why someone would "shield" their kids from going to see a bi WW.

Sure, confuse the child early on, this is progressive indoctrination that, as earlier established, you are incapable of grasping.


Did you blow up?

I'm a nuclear fucking bomb of truth and logic.

Boom!


Glad you think you made a valid point, Cap, although I must admit I'm not seeing it.

We already established that, several times.

Go back to sleep.

[Captain Obvious]

No I really do believe that, on the whole, comic books are marketed to the same type of audience that watches Family Guy or Adult Swim.

And there were more people watching Wonder Woman for masturbatory fantasies than there were people watching it to "support feminism".

That's the entire reason the character was designed to wear a skimpy leotard costume from the get-go; you have to include a little something to keep the 13 year old boys reading the comic, who are the primary demographic of the entire industry.

You need to get out more.

...hold that thought, stay where you are.

[Archer0915]

Meaning you don't let your kids - assuming that you actually have kids, and this isn't all just a hypothetical for you - watch animated Disney films because Bell kisses the Beast or the heroine kisses some prince or other? Really?



You think it's the people supporting gay, bi or trans young people who are causing them to commit suicide? Again - really?
Yeah, I got them from college to elementary. Do not be an ass. You do not know what goes on in my home. I am sure it is less foul than yours. As to your second point? You are damn right I blame them. Much of that support is just agenda driven pushing and condoning so their opinions can be legitimized. Still I directly blame the parents, schools and communities that allow a small child to identify as transgender when the kid has no clue.

[Hal Jordan]

That may very well be, but some of us are. Sorry, not sorry.

I hate the whole "sorry, not sorry" thing. I'm sticking with "Not sorry. You can either deal with it or cry me a river, build a bridge and get the fuck over it."

[Devil'sAdvocate]

You need to get out more.

...hold that thought, stay where you are.
Nah, comic books have always been primarily aimed at teenage boys, the fact that there are so many adults who get offended over pointing this out, or think they can somehow 'promote social justice' through a character like Wonder Woman is what I find amusing.

If you're an adult and you read comics then there's nothing "wrong with that", but stop treating them like they were meant to be some type of treatise on existentialism.

Same with Star Wars - it's just a kid's movie like The Karate Kid, and the fact that it's been micro-analyzed to death even more than George Lucas ever did is a little embarrassing. And don't let me get started on video games...

[Hal Jordan]

No I really do believe that, on the whole, comic books are marketed to the same type of audience that watches Family Guy or Adult Swim.

Okay, first, this doesn't make any sense. Stories in comics typically last at least a year and run through multiple comics. Your idea of the audience for comics would never have the patience for that.


And there were more people watching Wonder Woman for masturbatory fantasies than there were people watching it to "support feminism".

This doesn't even merit a response, it's so ridiculous.


That's the entire reason the character was designed to wear a skimpy leotard costume from the get-go; you have to include a little something to keep the 13 year old boys reading the comic, who are the primary demographic of the entire industry.

While there are comics marketed toward 13 year olds, they are not even close to the primary demographic. In fact, it wasn't until the 1950s that comics were generally geared toward younger readers, and that was forced on them by the Comics Code Authority. In the 1980s, comics were focusing more on comics for adults again and rebelling against the CCA. The current average age of comic readers is mid to late 30s (https://www.newsarama.com/33006-is-the-average-age-of-comic-book-readers-increasing-retailers-talk-state-of-the-business-2017.html). Also, the fastest growing demographic is females between 17 and 33. There are people concerned about the future of comics because there aren't a lot of younger comic readers.

Anyway, is Nietzsche (which Superman comics were based on) for a dumbed down audience? What about classics such as Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde (Hulk), The War of the Worlds (multiple), and Dracula (multiple)? What about commentary on racism and civil rights (multiple, but especially the X-Men)? Commentary on politics and religion (way too many to even begin to get into)? There's a reason that there are many studies and classes on the philosophy of comics.

[Archer0915]

Okay, first, this doesn't make any sense. Stories in comics typically last at least a year and run through multiple comics. Your idea of the audience for comics would never have the patience for that.



This doesn't even merit a response, it's so ridiculous.



While there are comics marketed toward 13 year olds, they are not even close to the primary demographic. In fact, it wasn't until the 1950s that comics were generally geared toward younger readers, and that was forced on them by the Comics Code Authority. In the 1980s, comics were focusing more on comics for adults again and rebelling against the CCA. The current average age of comic readers is mid to late 30s (https://www.newsarama.com/33006-is-the-average-age-of-comic-book-readers-increasing-retailers-talk-state-of-the-business-2017.html). Also, the fastest growing demographic is females between 17 and 33. There are people concerned about the future of comics because there aren't a lot of younger comic readers.

Anyway, is Nietzsche (which Superman comics were based on) for a dumbed down audience? What about classics such as Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde (Hulk), The War of the Worlds (multiple), and Dracula (multiple)? What about commentary on racism and civil rights (multiple, but especially the X-Men)? Commentary on politics and religion (way too many to even begin to get into)? There's a reason that there are many studies and classes on the philosophy of comics.
And WW was Bi?


1954 Code criteria[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comics_Code_Authority&action=edit&section=10)]Source[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority#cite_note-26)



Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals.
If crime is depicted it shall be as a sordid and unpleasant activity.
Policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions shall never be presented in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority.
Criminals shall not be presented so as to be rendered glamorous or to occupy a position which creates a desire for emulation.
In every instance good shall triumph over evil and the criminal punished for his misdeeds.
Scenes of excessive violence shall be prohibited. Scenes of brutal torture, excessive and unnecessary knife and gunplay, physical agony, gory and gruesome crime shall be eliminated.
No comic magazine shall use the words "horror" or "terror" in its title.
All scenes of horror, excessive bloodshed, gory or gruesome crimes, depravity, lust, sadism, masochism shall not be permitted.
All lurid, unsavory, gruesome illustrations shall be eliminated.
Inclusion of stories dealing with evil shall be used or shall be published only where the intent is to illustrate a moral issue and in no case shall evil be presented alluringly, nor so as to injure the sensibilities of the reader.
Scenes dealing with, or instruments associated with walking dead, torture, vampires and vampirism, ghouls, cannibalism, and werewolfism are prohibited.
Profanity, obscenity, smut, vulgarity, or words or symbols which have acquired undesirable meanings are forbidden.
Nudity in any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.
Suggestive and salacious illustration or suggestive posture is unacceptable.
Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities.
Illicit sex relations are neither to be hinted at nor portrayed. Rape scenes as well as sexual abnormalities are unacceptable.
Seduction and rape shall never be shown or suggested.
Sex perversion or any inference to same is strictly forbidden.
Nudity with meretricious purpose and salacious postures shall not be permitted in the advertising of any product; clothed figures shall never be presented in such a way as to be offensive or contrary to good taste or morals.