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View Full Version : Will Higher Tax Rates Balance the Budget?



keymanjim
11-19-2012, 06:18 PM
This guy explains how raising and lower the tax rates makes no significant difference in money the government collects as taxes.
In the end, he gives two very simple solutions on how to balance the budget.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ucoP4-06O7M

Peter1469
11-19-2012, 08:08 PM
It isn't mathematically possible to tax our way out of our debt problems.

KC
11-19-2012, 09:14 PM
It isn't mathematically possible to tax our way out of our debt problems.

Nah, but as Dr. Davies points out in the OP's video, it never hurts to be taking the slice of tax revenue from a bigger pie (the economy). We're probably not going to get the serious cuts we actually need, so if we can get some substantial cuts in spending plus simplify the tax code and cut taxes, we'll be in a much better place.

keymanjim
11-19-2012, 09:20 PM
Nah, but as Dr. Davies points out in the OP's video, it never hurts to be taking the slice of tax revenue from a bigger pie (the economy). We're probably not going to get the serious cuts we actually need, so if we can get some substantial cuts in spending plus simplify the tax code and cut taxes, we'll be in a much better place.
But, that's not going to happen. Not when we have a president that got fired from his job of scooping ice cream.

KC
11-19-2012, 09:31 PM
Buy, that's not going ti happen. Not when we have a president that got fired from his job of scooping ice cream.

You're probably right that it won't happen. I like to operate on the level of ideas because thinking about the actual politics usually just puts me in a sour mood.

Chris
11-19-2012, 09:48 PM
What an apt metaphor, economy as pie a la mode, with the failed icecream scooper skimming off the top.

Peter1469
11-19-2012, 10:36 PM
The fundamental problem is that any money from taxes will be spent long before it is collected.

Spending cuts are the only answer.

Mainecoons
11-20-2012, 04:45 PM
This is a catch two as government spending is counted in GDP no matter how useless, counterproductive or inefficient. Hence, the kind of spending cuts needed to bring the budget even closer to balance would trigger a recession.

I personally believe Federal spending and damage to the economy has gone beyond the point of no return and will only stop with fiscal collapse.

Chris
11-20-2012, 05:10 PM
That's true, govt spending is counted and cutting it would drive recession, but if rather than government spending it, the people who earned it spent it, it would at least generate wealth, and thus more revenue.

Mainecoons
11-20-2012, 07:23 PM
True, but not immediately.

Ivan88
11-22-2012, 02:27 PM
995 Mid 1940's FEDERAL RESERVE guys, "Taxes are obsolete for funding government."
They said it could all be funded by the sovereign credit of the USA.


However, 996 Congress rejected that idea and chose to raise taxes and wage never ending wars.

A goodly part of our national product is the colossal amount of war material that is simply wasted on torturing, maiming, killing and otherwise harming millions of people around the world.

What if the wealth consumed on war was spent instead on actually helping people? What if every head of household in America were to receive what Khadafi did for every Libyan citizen, give them a dividend check of 1000 bucks per month?

Another thing the FEDERAL RESERVE guys told Congress was that taxes reduce the amount of wealth available to the general population and hence reduces their ability to purchase what they need and desire.

Chris
11-22-2012, 02:37 PM
995 Mid 1940's FEDERAL RESERVE guys, "Taxes are obsolete for funding government."
They said it could all be funded by the sovereign credit of the USA.


However, 996 Congress rejected that idea and chose to raise taxes and wage never ending wars.

A goodly part of our national product is the colossal amount of war material that is simply wasted on torturing, maiming, killing and otherwise harming millions of people around the world.

What if the wealth consumed on war was spent instead on actually helping people? What if every head of household in America were to receive what Khadafi did for every Libyan citizen, give them a dividend check of 1000 bucks per month?

Another thing the FEDERAL RESERVE guys told Congress was that taxes reduce the amount of wealth available to the general population and hence reduces their ability to purchase what they need and desire.

Ivan, why do you argue against yourself?

You support taxes provided they are not spent on military (corporate welfare) but redistributed and returned (social welfare).

Then you argue against that by citing the Fed, "that taxes reduce the amount of wealth available to the general population and hence reduces their ability to purchase what they need and desire."

IOW, the money shouldn't be taken from those who earn it in the first place, then revenues would rise.

Ivan88
11-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Ivan, why do you argue against yourself?

You support taxes provided they are not spent on military (corporate welfare) but redistributed and returned (social welfare).

Then you argue against that by citing the Fed, "that taxes reduce the amount of wealth available to the general population and hence reduces their ability to purchase what they need and desire."

IOW, the money shouldn't be taken from those who earn it in the first place, then revenues would rise.

When did I support taxes? And, when did I support corporate or social welfare?

America belongs to Americans, shouldn't they be getting dividends from America's vast wealth instead of trillions going to elite manipulators and war crazies?

Chris
11-22-2012, 02:52 PM
When did I support taxes? And, when did I support corporate or social welfare?

America belongs to Americans, shouldn't they be getting dividends from America's vast wealth instead of trillions going to elite manipulators and war crazies?


When did I support taxes?

Don't you read what you post:


What if the wealth consumed on war was spent instead on actually helping people? What if every head of household in America were to receive what Khadafi did for every Libyan citizen, give them a dividend check of 1000 bucks per month?



And, when did I support corporate or social welfare?

Don't you read what I said:


You support taxes provided they are not spent on military (corporate welfare) but redistributed and returned (social welfare).



America belongs to Americans, shouldn't they be getting dividends from America's vast wealth instead of trillions going to elite manipulators and war crazies?

So you're a socialist who finds theft of property moral. Getting back to topic, how will your socialist policies balance the budget? That is the topic, ivan, get back to it.

Ivan88
11-23-2012, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=Chris;189538] Chris, you have assumed that I am talking about using taxes to finance this or that.
I am not speaking of taxes. The Federal Reserve has long ago told us we don't need taxes.
America is vastly rich, despite the looting we've undergone in the last 30 years or so. Can you put a limited value on America?

If America's wealth were not be expropriated to subsidize war crazies, war mongers and profiteers, America's wealth could change the whole world for a vastly better existence for all those willing to participate.

America would be loved by all or almost all nations.
If we were not ugly Americans rampaging around the world harming millions of people, but were as the Chinese call us, Mei Guo, 1000 beautiful people that "nature's God" Intends for us to be, we wouldn't be facing the problems we're having and the huge disasters hanging over our heads.

Wars decrease America's wealth, and following our Divine Mandate of Peace greatly expands America's wealth. Our Divine Mandate: “to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them,”and to have “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind” (Declaration of Independence)

America's sovereign credit financed a century of disastrous wars of aggression, it can finance a millenium of progress & human happiness, all without taxes. Our wars were looting operations, America was looted and other nations were looted.

In the Declaration of Rights, 1774, it was declared that Americans never consented to be governed. Yet, we have been led to believe that we have consented to be governed.
Which is it? Do we consent to taxes and regulations that destroy our ability to survive and prosper? That is where we are.

If you can't see that we have been a Communist country since Lincoln, you have no right to accuse me of being a tax loving socialist or communist.

Congress should only get a limited amount to do their job. If they can't do it, fire them and get someone who can. The America people must benefit from our national credit, not the looters.
Tax corporations, but not the individual American Man. His house should be his castle, safe, secure and untaxed.

Chris
11-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Chris, you have assumed that I am talking about using taxes to finance this or that.
I am not speaking of taxes. The Federal Reserve has long ago told us we don't need taxes.
America is vastly rich, despite the looting we've undergone in the last 30 years or so. Can you put a limited value on America?

If America's wealth were not be expropriated to subsidize war crazies, war mongers and profiteers, America's wealth could change the whole world for a vastly better existence for all those willing to participate.

America would be loved by all or almost all nations.
If we were not ugly Americans rampaging around the world harming millions of people, but were as the Chinese call us, Mei Guo, 1000 beautiful people that "nature's God" Intends for us to be, we wouldn't be facing the problems we're having and the huge disasters hanging over our heads.

America's sovereign credit financed a century of disastrous wars of aggression, it can finance a millenium of progress & human happiness, all without taxes. Our wars were looting operations, America was looted and other nations were looted.

In the Declaration of Rights, 1774, it was declared that Americans never consented to be governed. Yet, we have been led to believe that we have consented to be governed.
Which is it? Do we consent to taxes and regulations that destroy our ability to survive and prosper? That is where we are.

If you can't see that we have been a Communist country since Lincoln, you have no right to accuse me of being a tax loving socialist or communist.

Congress should only get a limited amount to do their job. If they can't do it, fire them and get someone who can. The America people must benefit from our national credit, not the looters.

Ivan, off-topic, thread banned--see rule 9. Feel free of course to start your own topics.