Was the Las Vegas Attack an Act of Terrorism?

[Agent Zero]

It's interesting how Trump never admits that the frequent attacks on Americans by Americans* aren't a terrorist attack. Is it?

*Unless the attack is by Americans of middle eastern descent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/02/terrorism-or-not-las-vegas-reignites-a-real-and-really-important-debate/?utm_term=.b6f8dba82406

The Fix (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/) Analysis

Terrorism or not? Las Vegas reignites a real — and really important — debate.










By Aaron Blake (https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/aaron-blake/) October 2 at 11:30 AM (aaron.blake@washpost.com?subject=Reader%20feedbac k%20for%20%27Terrorism%20or%20not?%20Las%20Vegas%2 0reignites%20a%20real%20%E2%80%94%20and%20really%2 0important%20%E2%80%94%20debate.%27)
Play Video 0:19



Sanders: ‘Premature’ to say if Las Vegas shooting was domestic terrorism










White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Oct. 2 said “it would be premature to weigh in” on whether the Las Vegas shooting was an act of domestic terrorism. (Reuters)


For the third time in four months, a tragedy on U.S. soil is dominating the country's attention. And for the third time in four months, we're about to have a debate about whether to label such an act — perpetrated by a man with no known ties to Muslim extremism — as “terrorism.”


And White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said during Monday's briefing that “it would be premature to weigh in” on whether the shooting was an act of domestic terrorism.
To which plenty of people responded: What? How could the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/worst-mass-shootings-u-s-history/722254001/) not be terrorism?

[waltky]

Another death added to the toll...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
59 dead, hundreds hurt at Vegas concert in deadliest mass shooting in U.S.
Oct. 2, 2017 - "My warmest condolences and sympathies to the victims and families of the terrible Las Vegas shooting. God bless you!" President Donald Trump tweeted Monday.


Fifty-nine people were killed and hundreds were injured late Sunday at an outdoor country music festival on the Las Vegas Strip -- in what is now the deadliest shooting attack in modern U.S. history. The gunfire began around 10 p.m. on the south end of Las Vegas Boulevard during the Route 91 country music festival. Authorities said the shooter fired from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino into a lot diagonally across the street. Automatic gunfire was captured on cellphone recordings of the concert, followed by panicked show-goers running for cover. Witnesses said the shooting lasted for 5 to 10 minutes. Las Vegas police said 527 people were injured. The city's two trauma centers, University Medical Center and Sunrise Hospital Medical Center, were treating victims.

The attack is the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. modern history, surpassing the 49 killed by a gunman last year at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Fla. Police identified the suspected shooter as Stephen Paddock, 64, a resident of Mesquite, 82 miles northwest of Las Vegas. He died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police confirmed Monday. "Right now we believe it's a sole actor, a lone wolf type actor," Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said at a news briefing. Lombardo said the shooter fired onto the 15-acre lot where about 22,000 had gathered to watch the final night of the festival. Police recovered 10 rifles from the room, and another 18 firearms, explosives and ammunition at his Mesquite, Nev., home. NBC reported the suspected gunman made several large gambling transactions worth tens of thousands of dollars in recent weeks, according to law enforcement officials.


https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi/1061506934022/2017/1/5973bfedf41a18a0642d0f4fc5e46134/59-dead-hundreds-hurt-at-Vegas-concert-in-deadliest-mass-shooting-in-US.jpg
Many of the shooting victims were taken to University Medical Center for treatment.

A U.S. official told CBS News there were no early signs of any ties to radical Islamic groups or signs of radicalization. The Islamic State said in two statements released by its pseudo-news agency Amaq, citing anonymous sources, that the gunman converted to Islam several months ago and the attack "in response to calls to target states of the coalition" battling the Islamic State. Lombardo said police have located an Asian woman, Marilou Danley, who lived with the suspect since 2003, according to records obtained by the Reno Gazette-Journal. Police originally said she was with the suspect in Las Vegas but later said she is out of the country. One off-duty police officer was among the dead. Also, two officers were being treated for injuries --- one officer was in critical condition and the other had minor injuries. "It was was a horror show," concertgoer Ivetta Saldana told the Review-Journal. "People were standing around, then they hit the floor."

She said was attending the concert with a friend and hid in a sewer. "We met someone at the gas station, a nurse, she was at the concert and she treated someone who was shot in the face, someone who was shot in the chest and someone who was shot in the liver," a man identified as Todd told CNN. Country singer Jason Aldean was rushed off the stage as shots were fired. "Tonight has been beyond horrific," Aldean wrote on Instagram. "I still don't know what to say but wanted to let everyone know that me and my crew are safe ... It hurts my heart that this would happen to anyone who was just coming out to enjoy what should have been a fun night." Las Vegas police were seeking footage or photographs of the events at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino. The Bakersfield Police Department in California said several off-duty officers attended the concert. One was injured, according to KGET-TV. A number of off-duty police officers were at the show.

Roads around the area, including Interstate 15, were closed. At midnight, more than 25 flights were diverted from nearby McCarran International Airport, according to airport spokeswoman Christine Crews. People ran onto an airport runway while fleeing the shooting. Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval called it a "tragic and heinous act," adding that prayers "are with the victims and all affected by this act of cowardice. Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman posted on Twitter: "Pray for Las Vegas. Thank you to all our first responders out there now." Mandalay Bay, which opened in 1999, includes a 43-story tower, 3,309 hotel rooms, a convention center and a 12,000-seat events center. MGM Resorts International owns Mandalay Bay and several casino/hotels in Las Vegas. Mandalay Bay, the MGM and the Tropicana were on lockdown until 8 a.m., at which point guests were allowed back into their rooms. Access to the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay was still restricted.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/10/02/58-dead-hundreds-hurt-at-Vegas-concert-in-deadliest-mass-shooting-in-US/1061506934022/?utm_source=upi&utm_campaign=mp&utm_medium=1

See also:

Vegas gunman's brother: 'Completely dumbfounded' it happened
Oct. 2, 2017 -- The brother of Stephen Paddock, the suspected gunman in the shooting deaths of at least 58 people at a Las Vegas concert, said Monday he was "completely dumbfounded" it happened.


Paddock, 64, of nearby Mesquite, Nev., fired shots at concertgoers from a hotel room in the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino on Sunday night, police said. He was found in his hotel room, dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. "There is no reason we can imagine why Stephen would do something like this," his brother Eric Paddock, 55, of Orlando, Fla., said. "All we can do is send our condolences to the people who died. Just no reason, no warning." He said "it's like an asteroid just fell on top of our family." Paddock lived in a retirement community in Mesquite with his girlfriend Marylou Danley. Although he was known to local police, he had no conflicts with law enforcement, the Desert Valley Times reported Monday. The older Paddock bought a home in Mesquite -- 80 miles from Las Vegas -- for $369,000 in January 2015, according to court records obtained by the Las Vegas Review-Journal.


https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi/4211506949919/2017/1/b417b2e66540b881324c2612cd68e3cb/Vegas-gunmans-brother-Completely-dumbfounded-it-happened.jpg
The brother of the man identified by police as the gunman in a Las Vegas shooting Sunday said he is unaware of the motivation for the incident. Eric Paddock of Orlando gave a statement Monday to local police regarding his brother Stephen who shot himself to death as police entered his Las Vegas hotel room.

In the shooter's 32nd-floor hotel room, 10 guns were found. "He might have had a gun or two, but he didn't have a huge stock of guns," Eric Paddock said. The two brothers last talked a few weeks ago after Hurricane Irma struck Florida, he said. Their father, Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, was on the FBI's Top 10 Most Wanted list for bank robberies. He was bumped from the most-wanted list in 1977 because he longer longer fit the "Top 10" criteria, according to the agency's website. The suspect's father, who was diagnosed as psychopathic, was convicted of bank robberies in Phoenix and San Francisco in the 1960s. Another brother, Bruce Paddock, said Stephen wasn't like his father. "He never got into fights. He never did anything violent. He's kinda laidback, never in a hurry," another brother, Bruce Paddock, of Calfornia, told NBC News. "I don't know how he could stoop to this low point, hurting someone else ... He killed a bunch of people and then killed himself so he didn't have to face whatever it was."

In September 2012, Stephen Paddock filed a negligence lawsuit in Clark County District Court against The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas over a fall at the Strip resort. The lawsuit was dismissed in October 2014 after both sides agreed to drop it. The Cosmopolitan is on the strip like Mandalay Bay but they are not owned by the same company. NBC news reported Paddock gambled more than $10,000 per day -- sometimes greater than $20,000 and $30,000 -- at Las Vegas casinos, according to an NBC News source. Casinos are required by the Treasury and IRS to file when "each transaction in currency involving cash-in and cash-out of more than $10,000 in a gaming day." Bruce Paddock, who said he hadn't spoken to his brother in 10 years, said Stephen owned and managed apartment buildings with his mother, who lives in Florida. Federal Aviation Authority records show that Paddock became a certified private pilot on Nov. 17, 2003.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/10/02/Vegas-gunmans-brother-Completely-dumbfounded-it-happened/4211506949919/?utm_source=upi&utm_campaign=mp&utm_medium=2

[Adelaide]

I think if it lacks political motive, it's just a mass shooting (could be wrong). And I don't think we really have any idea of the shooter's motives - we probably won't be given a clear picture for several days. Law enforcement and the media will take awhile to get their shit together on this.

[Peter1469]

There is nothing to debate. In English words have meanings.

We will find out whether he was supporting or affiliated with a group seeking violent political change or not.

When we know that we will have our answer.

Terrorist or criminal.

[Private Pickle]

It's interesting how Trump never admits that the frequent attacks on Americans by Americans* aren't a terrorist attack. Is it?

*Unless the attack is by Americans of middle eastern descent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/02/terrorism-or-not-las-vegas-reignites-a-real-and-really-important-debate/?utm_term=.b6f8dba82406

The Fix (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/) Analysis

Terrorism or not? Las Vegas reignites a real — and really important — debate.












By Aaron Blake (https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/aaron-blake/) October 2 at 11:30 AM
Play Video 0:19



Sanders: ‘Premature’ to say if Las Vegas shooting was domestic terrorism










White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Oct. 2 said “it would be premature to weigh in” on whether the Las Vegas shooting was an act of domestic terrorism. (Reuters)


For the third time in four months, a tragedy on U.S. soil is dominating the country's attention. And for the third time in four months, we're about to have a debate about whether to label such an act — perpetrated by a man with no known ties to Muslim extremism — as “terrorism.”


And White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said during Monday's briefing that “it would be premature to weigh in” on whether the shooting was an act of domestic terrorism.
To which plenty of people responded: What? How could the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/worst-mass-shootings-u-s-history/722254001/) not be terrorism?

ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism


the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.







If the only motive was to kill people then it's not terrorism. It's just a psychopath. If this person had a political goal in mind when carrying out the attack it should and will be classified as terrorism.

[Tahuyaman]

There is nothing to debate. In English words have meanings.

We will find out whether he was supporting or affiliated with a group seeking violent political change or not.

When we know that we will have our answer.

Terrorist or criminal.

That went over the OP's head.

[jimmyz]

Better question; Is the OP having one of his happier days in months? He got a two-fer. 1. The shooter was a white male. 2. The victims are white, and likely church-goers whom probably voted for Trump. Oh Happy Days! indeed for the ghoul OP.

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - now dem football players really got sumpin' to kneel about...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
Trump Calls Vegas Shooting 'Act of Pure Evil'; US Flags to Fly at Half-Staff
October 02, 2017 | WHITE HOUSE — President Donald Trump ordered flags to fly at half-staff Monday as the nation recoiled in horror at the worst mass shooting by a lone gunman in recent U.S. history.


“We are joined together in sadness, shock and grief,” Trump said in a nationally televised address less than 12 hours after the shooting began. “It was an act of pure evil.” He said he would travel to Las Vegas Wednesday to honor the victims and meet with survivors, one day after he is to visit hurricane victims in Puerto Rico. “In moments of tragedy and horror, America comes together as one. And it always has,” Trump told the nation. “We call upon the bonds that unite us, our faith, our family and our shared values. We call upon the bonds of citizenship, the ties of community and the comfort of our common humanity. “Our unity cannot be shattered by evil, our bonds cannot be broken by violence and though we feel such great anger at the senseless murder of our fellow citizens, it is our love that defines us today and always will forever,” the president said.


Standing in front of a portrait of George Washington, Trump offered words of sympathy to the families of the victims. “In times such as these I know we are searching for some kind of meaning in the chaos, some kind of light in the darkness. The answers do not come easy. But we can take solace knowing that even the darkest space can be brightened by a single light and even the most terrible despair can be illuminated by a single ray of hope.” Trump did not mention guns in his five-minute address, but the Las Vegas tragedy once again brought the issue of gun control back to center stage in the national debate. Former Member of Congress Gabby Giffords. who was gravely wounded by a gun-wielding attacker in Arizona six years ago, spoke to reporters along with her husband, former astronaut Mark Kelly, pleading for bipartisan action on stricter gun laws. “The nation is counting on you,” Giffords said.



https://gdb.voanews.com/9B2D971D-F600-46BC-827E-A3CB17D55A2A_w650_r1_s.jpg
Las Vegas Shooting


Kelly called the Las Vegas attack an act of domestic terrorism. “Weapons of war in the hands of a determined killer with a tactical advantage — this was an ambush if there ever was one,” he said. Kelly, who along with Giffords founded a gun control advocacy group called Americans for Responsible Solutions, said America must make a choice. House minority leader Nancy Pelosi sent a letter to Speaker Paul Ryan Monday urging formation of a Select Committee on Gun Violence to develop “common sense legislation.” Saying there had been 273 mass shootings in the United States this year, one for every day of the year so far, Pelosi called on her colleague to approve a bipartisan bill now before the House that would strengthen background checks aimed at keeping guns out of “the wrong hands.” Former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton posted two tweets Monday, calling for a ban on gun silencers, and mentioning the National Rifle Association. “Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get,” she wrote. “Our grief isn't enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again.”


White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders parried questions about gun control at Monday's briefing, saying it was premature to inject politics less than 24 hours after the Las Vegas tragedy. “I think before we start trying to talk about the preventions of what took place last night, we need to know more facts, and right now we're simply not at that point,” Sanders said. “It's very easy for Mrs. Clinton to criticize and to come out, but I think we need to remember the only person with blood on their hands is that of the shooter, and this isn't a time for us to go after individuals or organizations. I think that we can have those policy conversations, but today is not that day,” she told reporters, cutting short the briefing to attend a moment of silence on the White House lawn for the victims. Expressions of condolences poured into the White House from around the world. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe expressed shock and outrage. “We cannot tolerate such indiscriminate and massive shooting incident for any reason and I resolutely condemn it,” Abe wrote. “Las Vegas has long been celebrated by people from around the globe, including many Canadians,” Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau wrote: “We grieve with this city and the United States. Such acts only strengthen our resolve to stand together, united.”


Obama offers condolences (https://www.voanews.com/a/trump-calls-vegas-shooting-act-of-pure-evil/4052973.html)


See also:


Who Was the Las Vegas Shooter ?
October 02, 2017 - Las Vegas police have identified Stephen Paddock, 64, from Mesquite, Nevada, as the gunman in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.


Authorities believe Paddock shot into a crowd of 22,000 people attending an outdoor concert, killing 58 and wounded hundreds more before before he killed himself in a hotel room that overlooked the area. At least 10 guns were found in the room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort, police said. He had checked into the hotel room on Thursday, according to authorities.



https://gdb.voanews.com/B8F7E685-15D1-4137-A8E2-CC76C546526F_cx0_cy3_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg
Eric Paddock, brother of Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock, speaks to members of the media near his home, in Orlando, Fla.




Motive


A motive for the deadly attack is not known. Police said Paddock did not have a criminal history; the FBI added that he had no connection to any international terrorist group. Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack, but did not provide any evidence for the claim. "We know nothing. If you told me an asteroid fell it would mean the same to me. There is absolutely no sense, no reason he did this," his brother Eric Paddock told the Washington Post. "He is just a guy who played video poker, and took cruises, and ate burritos at Taco Bell. There is no political affiliation that we know of. There is no religious affiliation that we know of."



https://gdb.voanews.com/4A2798F6-1754-4345-BAC4-D3D34CA19285_w650_r0_s.jpg
Police stand at the scene of a shooting along the Las Vegas Strip


What neighbors say


Neighbors in Nevada described the retired Paddock, who lived in a town about 130 kilometers from Las Vegas, as a prickly personality and avid gambler who lived with his girlfriend, Marilou Danley. Authorities initially said they were searching for Danley as a person of interest in the investigation. They later said she had been located and was in police custody, but they do not believe she was involved in the shooting.


https://www.voanews.com/a/who-was-the-las-vegas-shooter-/4053030.html

[rcfieldz]

To think there are probably some who have thought of doing a similar thing but havn't acted on there evil impulses...but where will it happen next?

[Cletus]

It's interesting how Trump never admits that the frequent attacks on Americans by Americans* aren't a terrorist attack. Is it?

*Unless the attack is by Americans of middle eastern descent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/02/terrorism-or-not-las-vegas-reignites-a-real-and-really-important-debate/?utm_term=.b6f8dba82406

The Fix (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/) Analysis

Terrorism or not? Las Vegas reignites a real — and really important — debate.
There is no debate. Terrorism has a specific definition. If an act does not meet the criteria set forth in that definition, it is not terrorism. If it does, it is.

[resister]

[/B]
There is no debate.Terrorism has a specific definition. If an act does not meet the criteria set forth in that definition, it is not terrorism. If it does, it is.
They are dancing in the streets!

[Chris]

The Patriot Act defines "domestic terrorism" as activities within the United States that . . . involve acts dangerous to human life that. . . appear to be intended--

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.

@ http://www.crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-patriot-act.html

[donttread]

It's interesting how Trump never admits that the frequent attacks on Americans by Americans* aren't a terrorist attack. Is it?

*Unless the attack is by Americans of middle eastern descent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/02/terrorism-or-not-las-vegas-reignites-a-real-and-really-important-debate/?utm_term=.b6f8dba82406

The Fix (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/) Analysis

Terrorism or not? Las Vegas reignites a real — and really important — debate.












By Aaron Blake (https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/aaron-blake/) October 2 at 11:30 AM
Play Video 0:19



Sanders: ‘Premature’ to say if Las Vegas shooting was domestic terrorism










White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Oct. 2 said “it would be premature to weigh in” on whether the Las Vegas shooting was an act of domestic terrorism. (Reuters)


For the third time in four months, a tragedy on U.S. soil is dominating the country's attention. And for the third time in four months, we're about to have a debate about whether to label such an act — perpetrated by a man with no known ties to Muslim extremism — as “terrorism.”


And White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said during Monday's briefing that “it would be premature to weigh in” on whether the shooting was an act of domestic terrorism.
To which plenty of people responded: What? How could the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/worst-mass-shootings-u-s-history/722254001/) not be terrorism?


It depends was the crazed angry bastard trying to make others afraid or just kill a bunch of people. We may never know.

[waltky]

Would imagine it was a nightmare for PTSD sufferers...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
Army Veteran Among Heroes Who Saved Lives at Las Vegas Shooting
3 Oct 2017 — Rob Ledbetter's battlefield instincts kicked in quickly as bullets rained overhead.


The 42-year-old U.S. Army veteran who served as a sniper in Iraq immediately began tending to the wounded, one of several heroes to emerge from the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history. Amid the massacre in Las Vegas, which left 59 people dead and more than 500 injured, there were acts of compassion and countless heroics that officials say saved scores of lives. There was a man one survivor knows only as Zach who herded people to a safe place. There was a registered nurse from Tennessee who died shielding his wife. Like many people in the crowd of some 22,000 country music fans Sunday night, Ledbetter heard the pop-pop-popping noise and figured it was fireworks. Then he saw people dropping to the ground. When more booms echoed in the night air, he recognized the sound of automatic weapons fire.

The gunman, identified as Stephen Craig Paddock, a 64-year-old retired accountant from Mesquite, Nevada, created his own sniper's perch inside the 32nd floor room at the Mandalay Bay casino hotel, across from the concert grounds. He appeared to fire unhindered for more than 10 minutes, according to radio traffic, and then killed himself before officers stormed in and found 23 firearms. "The echo, it sounded like it was coming from everywhere and you didn't know which way to run," said Ledbetter, who was at the concert with seven people including his brother, who was shot and injured, and his wife. They found cover in a VIP area of the concert. Once out of harm's way, he turned to injured strangers. Thanks to a man who took the flannel shirt off his back, Ledbetter says he put a makeshift tourniquet on a wounded teenage girl, whose face was covered with blood. "Some random guy, I said, 'I need your shirt,' "said Ledbetter, who is now a mortgage broker and a resident of Las Vegas. "He just gave me the flannel off his back."


http://images02.military.com/media/global/newscred/las-vegas-vigil-1800-03-oct-2017-ts600.jpeg
University of Nevada Las Vegas students Raymond Lloyd, right, and Karla Rodriguez take part in a vigil Monday, Oct. 2, 2017, in Las Vegas.

Ledbetter said he compressed someone else's shoulder wound, and he fashioned a bandage for a man whose leg was shot through by a bullet. "There was a guy that looked like he had a through and through on his leg, that we just put a T-shirt around and just did a bandanna tie," said Ledbetter, who was outside University Medical Center on Monday, where his brother was being treated for a gunshot that went through his arm and into his chest. He is expected to survive. Ledbetter and others grabbed the injured man, carried him out to Las Vegas Boulevard, put him in the back of a utility truck with five to 10 other people that was headed to the hospital.

Ledbetter said he would have helped more people but couldn't clear the barrage of gunfire. "I'm saving people, or trying to do my best. But it got to the point, I saw people all over, laying where we used to be standing ... just laying there and nobody getting to them and I couldn't get out there. The shots just kept coming in and bouncing. I would have been in harm's way," he said. He worries that those unfamiliar with battlefields will suffer what they have survived. "Everybody there is going to have emotional problems. I know that. There was blood everywhere I went: Excalibur, Luxor, on the Strip, on the street," Ledbetter said. "All these people are going to have PTSD. I feel bad for all of them."

Another concertgoer, Anna Kupchyan, credits a man she knows only as Zach for saving her life and about nine others when he herded them into an outdoor trailer serving as a restroom. Kupchyan, a 27-year-old law student from Los Angeles, said bullets were raining down on the crowd as she and a horde of others began running in search of a way out of the outdoor venue. The man, Zach, opened a door and ordered people inside and then joined them and shut the door, Kupchyan said. They stayed inside as the shooting continued, everyone paralyzed in fear, she said. "Then security came and they shouted for us to get out, to run," she recalled. Outside the trailer, dead bodies were sprawled on the ground, including a man who had been shot in the head, she said.

MORE (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/10/03/army-veteran-heroes-who-saved-lives-las-vegas-shooting.html)

[Docthehun]

Ask any of the 59 and see if a definition matters to them.

[Captain Obvious]

The left's scripted war on white men dictates that they need to label them terrorists, racists, supremacists every chance they get.

Hack clones all comply.

[Hoosier8]

I think if it lacks political motive, it's just a mass shooting (could be wrong). And I don't think we really have any idea of the shooter's motives - we probably won't be given a clear picture for several days. Law enforcement and the media will take awhile to get their $#@! together on this.

I believe you are correct.

[Mister D]

Ask any of the 59 and see if a definition matters to them.
The meanings words have in English still apply regardless of how upset you are.

[Kalkin]

I think if it lacks political motive, it's just a mass shooting (could be wrong).
That's because, unlike the OP, you have the ability to think.

[Docthehun]

The meanings words have in English still apply regardless of how upset you are.

Not if you're dead.

[Tahuyaman]

Was the Las Vegas Attack an Act of Terrorism?
The fact is, we don't know if this was an act of terrorism or not. Terrorism isn't just an act which causes people to be terrorized or in a state of panic. Terrorism is a violent act motivated by a political ideology. Terrorism is intended to force a political position upon a population.

Eventually we will find out what motivated this guy. It may have been terrorism and it may have been simply an act of violence by someone who was mentally unstable.

[Captain Obvious]

Not if you're dead.

How can you be sure?

[Docthehun]

How can you be sure?

Good point!

[resister]

That's because, unlike the OP, you have the ability to think.
The OP's thread agenda is obvious, he wants it be white terror so as to minimize Muslim terror.:rollseyes:

[Mister D]

Not if you're dead.
Yes, their meanings still apply when you're dead. With all due respect, sir, this was one of your sillier comments.

[Tahuyaman]

The OP's thread agenda is obvious, he wants it be white terror so as to minimize Muslim terror.:rollseyes:

There is that mind set, mostly on the left which desperately wants to minimize Islamic terrorism. Why? I can't explain it. Can you?

[resister]

There is that mind set, mostly on the left which desperately wants to minimize Islamic terrorism. Why? I can't explain it. Can you?
Because it is counter to the diversity and import everyone agenda. The fact of the matter is, Muslims will not assimilate and the extremist will never give up Jihad, the Koran instructs them to wage it and that it is a good thing.

[Tahuyaman]

Muslims don't respect America and American culture. They have that in common with most liberals.

[Docthehun]

Yes, their meanings still apply when you're dead. With all due respect, sir, this was one of your sillier comments.

Would you agree that a majority of the attendees were terrorized?

[Peter1469]

Would you agree that a majority of the attendees were terrorized?
We are talking about the word terrorism. In English words have meanings.

[Docthehun]

We are talking about the word terrorism. In English words have meanings.

So in this case, as far as we currently know, they weren't victims of a terrorist, unless of course it turns out he was radicalized, in which case they would become victims of a terrorist?

[Tahuyaman]

We are talking about the word terrorism. In English words have meanings. often times those definitions are revised or ignored.

[Tahuyaman]

So in this case, as far as we currently know, they weren't victims of a terrorist, unless of course it turns out he was radicalized, in which case they would become victims of a terrorist?
No. It was a terrorist act if he was politically motivated and trying to affect political change.

[Peter1469]

So in this case, as far as we currently know, they weren't victims of a terrorist, unless of course it turns out he was radicalized, in which case they would become victims of a terrorist?

Correct.

[Peter1469]

Would you agree that a majority of the attendees were terrorized?
terrorist is not terrorized.

I felt terrorized by Hillary and her shrieking. But Hillary was not a terrorist.

[Docthehun]

terrorist is not terrorized.

I felt terrorized by Hillary and her shrieking. But Hillary was not a terrorist.

You're an attorney. You can do better than that.

[Docthehun]

No. It was a terrorist act if he was politically motivated and trying to affect political change.

Suppose he was pissed at recent attempts at gun control laws. Would that qualify as political motivation?

[Peter1469]

You're an attorney. You can do better than that.
OK, we are back to basic English. Words have meanings.

[Peter1469]

Suppose he was pissed at recent attempts at gun control laws. Would that qualify as political motivation?

No.

We already have too many words that have lost all meaning because of common and widespread misuse.

[Mister D]

You're an attorney. You can do better than that.
You don't need an attorney. You need an 8th grade English teacher...with all due respect of course.

[Mister D]

OK, we are back to basic English. Words have meanings.

By this logic, anyone is a terrorist if someone was terrorized by their behavior. I expected more from this guy. Maybe I shouldn't have.

[jimmyz]

By this logic, anyone is a terrorist if someone was terrorized by their behavior. I expected more from this guy. Maybe I shouldn't have.

Bethere is a terrorist and his mullah imam leader AZJim issues the fatwas.

[Tahuyaman]

Suppose he was pissed at recent attempts at gun control laws. Would that qualify as political motivation? It might.

[Mister D]

Bethere is a terrorist and his mullah imam leader AZJim issues the fatwas.
All criminals are terrorists. After all, their victims were terrorized. Something like that.

[Peter1469]

It might.
If he thought he was trying to affect a change in public policy rather than just saying "f-you."

[resister]

So in this case, as far as we currently know, they weren't victims of a terrorist, unless of course it turns out he was radicalized, in which case they would become victims of a terrorist?
Now you are getting it, violence for a political agenda!

[Tahuyaman]

If he thought he was trying to affect a change in public policy rather than just saying "f-you."


Right. Some people here can't seem to grasp that.

[Tahuyaman]

All criminals are terrorists. After all, their victims were terrorized. Something like that.

No.

[Tahuyaman]

Bethere is a terrorist and his mullah imam leader AZJim issues the fatwas. Neither one of them have the ability to organize and lead anyone.

[resister]

Right. Some people here can't seem to grasp that.
Of course not, the agenda is to highlight white terrorism to minimize Islamic terror!

[Mister D]

No.
It was a joke, genius.

[Tahuyaman]

It was a joke, genius.

ok. genius.


These Richard cranium types are getting boring.

[Mister D]

ok. genius.


These Richard cranium types are getting boring.

I have no idea what that means (spare me, I honestly don't care either) but at least you know I was poking fun at members who made exactly that argument.

[Tahuyaman]

Certain people are what's wrong with the world.

[Mister D]

Certain people are what's wrong with the world.
Tissue?

[Tahuyaman]

Tissue?

No. Do you disagree? Why?

[Orion Rules]

National

VEGAS MASSACRE BOMBSHELL: ‘Other Suspects’ Under INVESTIGATION

https://www.hannity.com/media-room/vegas-massacre-bombshell-other-suspects-under-investigation/