View Full Version : The Real Causes of Gun Crime
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:00 AM
Since Democrats are trying to blame guns for gun crime, I thought I'd start a thread about the REAL causes of gun crime.
Gun crime, much like ANY other form of crime, is caused, not by an inanimate object or ease of access to it, but by the underlying psychological and social context in which an individual finds themselves.
For example, poverty obviously contributes greatly to gun crime. Although the reasons for this are not entirely clear, we do know there is a strong association between poverty and crime (https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137).
Another significant contributor to criminality (and, by extension, gun crime) is an individual's family life, or lack thereof. There is a wealth of evidence demonstrating a strong association between broken families and crime (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/140517NCJRS.pdf).
Then there is the important issue of psychological health. It goes without saying that people who commit senseless acts of violence are psychologically ill in some way. What causes psychological illness is another conversation, but I think we can all agree it's a very important factor. I think we can also agree that pharmaceutical drugs sometimes play an important role in precipitating psychotic episodes.
Since I doubt there is anyone who would disagree with my assessment, the question becomes: Why aren't any of these issues discussed in the context of gun crime? Why do Democrats focus solely on guns? If they were genuinely interested in reducing gun crime, then wouldn't they invest their time and energy to ALL the causes of gun crime instead of the one that has arguably the LEAST to do with WHY people commit violent crimes?
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:21 AM
I suspect that this thread, much like my thread debunking gun control, will be assiduously avoided by the gun control crowd. They have a decided aversion to facts and logic.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:31 AM
It's also worth noting that the vast majority of gun crime in the USA is localized almost entirely within Democrat enclaves like Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, etc.
This is why Democrats tend to avoid these kinds of discussions, because it inevitably leads to their own back yards. I cannot think of a more damning indictment of their ability to govern. That is probably why they fixate on guns instead of the underlying causes of gun crime. We wouldn't want to examine how Democrat governance promotes criminality.
exotix
10-05-2017, 10:33 AM
Since Democrats are trying to blame guns for gun crime, I thought I'd start a thread about the REAL causes of gun crime.
Gun crime, much like ANY other form of crime, is caused, not by an inanimate object or ease of access to it, but by the underlying psychological and social context in which an individual finds themselves.
For example, poverty obviously contributes greatly to gun crime. Although the reasons for this are not entirely clear, we do know there is a strong association between poverty and crime (https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137).
Another significant contributor to criminality (and, by extension, gun crime) is an individual's family life, or lack thereof. There is a wealth of evidence demonstrating a strong association between broken families and crime (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/140517NCJRS.pdf).
Then there is the important issue of psychological health. It goes without saying that people who commit senseless acts of violence are psychologically ill in some way. What causes psychological illness is another conversation, but I think we can all agree it's a very important factor. I think we can also agree that pharmaceutical drugs sometimes play an important role in precipitating psychotic episodes.
Since I doubt there is anyone who would disagree with my assessment, the question becomes: Why aren't any of these issues discussed in the context of gun crime? Why do Democrats focus solely on guns? If they were genuinely interested in reducing gun crime, then wouldn't they invest their time and energy to ALL the causes of gun crime instead of the one that has arguably the LEAST to do with WHY people commit violent crimes?Except that America's worst mass-murder in history was committed by an outwardly-normal millionaire with no known reason as to why he did it ... with the exception that his father was a bank-robbing suicidal psychopath who made the FBI's 10 Most wanted list ... who used the 2nd Amendment to its best possibilities to wreak the carnage he did ...
Lots to talk about in this regard given most mass-murderers are suicidal psychopaths.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:34 AM
Except that America's worst mass-murder in history was committed by a outwardly-normal millionaire with no known reason as to why he did it ... with the exception that his father was a bank-robbing suicidal psychopath who made the FBI's 10 Most wanted list ...
Exceptions to the rule do not disprove the rule.
exotix
10-05-2017, 10:43 AM
Exceptions to the rule do not disprove the rule.Dems have nothing to do with your usual attempt to assign blame .... again, you try to blame mentally-ill people to protect your rights to own Battlefield Assault Weapons simply because conservatives and winggunnuts have bastardized the meaning of the 2nd Amendment ...
Which is the reason that we have mass-murders worse than the one before ...
Since Democrats are trying to blame guns for gun crime, I thought I'd start a thread about the REAL causes of gun crime.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:46 AM
Dems have nothing to do with your usual attempt to blame mentally-ill people to protect your rights to own Battlefield Assault Weapons simply because conservatives and winggunnuts have $#@!ized the meaning of the 2nd Amendment ...
Which is the reason that we have mass-murders worse than the one before ...
The vast majority of gun crime in America is localized almost entirely within Democrat enclaves like Chicago and Detroit. That is not a coincidence. There is a direct relationship between the political policies that Democrats promote and criminality.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:48 AM
If Democrats got their way, the entire country would look like Detroit and Cleveland.
exotix
10-05-2017, 10:50 AM
The vast majority of gun crime in America is localized almost entirely within Democrat enclaves like Chicago and Detroit. That is not a coincidence. There is a direct relationship between the political policies that Democrats promote and criminality.This could have been a good thread ... too bad you had to assign blame to Dems with your first utterance in the OP.
Chris
10-05-2017, 10:53 AM
Mother Jones had a surprisingly good article on this: The Las Vegas Shooter Didn’t Just “Snap.” They Never Do. (http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/10/the-las-vegas-shooter-didnt-just-snap-they-never-do/)
...It was a powerful moment, and yet these widely shared comments from Kimmel also reinforced a misconception that invariably marks the national discourse in the aftermath of indiscriminate mass shootings: that the perpetrator was severely mentally ill, and somehow just “snapped” and went on a killing spree. Law enforcement investigators and journalists have found no record of mental illness for 64-year-old Stephen Paddock, whom police found dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. And as with the vast majority of mass shooters, there is substantial evidence showing that Paddock deliberately planned the massacre over a lengthy period of time and then methodically carried it out.
...But if determining why a mass shooter struck can be elusive, documenting how he cultivated and carried out his plans—and how insights into those behavioral patterns can help prevent other attacks—is a different story. Calling Paddock a “crazed lunatic full of hate,” as the Las Vegas mayor did, or “a very, very sick individual,” as President Donald Trump did, may offer some catharsis. But it isn’t very helpful for understanding such crimes. (This kind of language can also perpetuate a dangerous stigma against mentally ill people, the vast majority of whom are not violent.)
It goes on to detail what is known.
Standing Wolf
10-05-2017, 10:53 AM
Except that America's worst mass-murder in history was committed by an outwardly-normal millionaire with no known reason as to why he did it ... with the exception that his father was a bank-robbing suicidal psychopath who made the FBI's 10 Most wanted list ... who used the 2nd Amendment to its best possibilities to wreak the carnage he did ...
The Vegas shooter killed 58 people - fewer than the number of people murdered with guns in the city of Detroit in the first three months of this year. He is an anomaly - a statistical outlier.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 10:54 AM
This could have been a good thread ... too bad you had to assign blame to Dems with your first utterance in the OP.
Everything I said is 100% factual. Democrats just refuse to take responsibility for what happens in their own back yards.
exotix
10-05-2017, 11:01 AM
The Vegas shooter killed 58 people - fewer than the number of people murdered with guns in the city of Detroit in the first three months of this year. He is an anomaly - a statistical outlier.
Everything I've said is 100% factual. Democrats just refuse to take responsibility for what happens in their own back yards.Notice how fast I debunked the OP's assertion that poverty and crime is the reason for gun crime that is the Dem's fault.
Unless of course Stephen Paddock was a Dem ... and a wealthy one at that.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 11:01 AM
Top 30 highest murder rate cities in America: Countdown of the top 30 cities in the U.S. with the highest murder rates – 2017 (https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/highest-murder-rate-cities)
Virtually all of them are Democrat enclaves. No wonder they only want to talk about the gun itself.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 11:07 AM
Notice how fast I debunked the OP that poverty and crime is the reason for gun crime...
I didn't say it was THE reason. I said it was one of several reasons and there is ample evidence to support my hypothesis. So the most you can claim credit for is debunking a strawman.
...that is the Dem's fault.
Most gun crime in America occurs in Democrat enclaves. That's a fact. And it's not a coincidence.
Unless of course Stepehen Paddock was a Dem ... and a wealthy one at that.
I never said that only poor people commit crimes. And I never said that only Democrats commit crimes. I said there is a strong association between poverty and crime, which is 100% factual. I also said the majority of gun crime in America is localized within Democrat enclaves like Chicago and Detroit, which is also 100% factual. You cannot refute these facts, so you are reduced to attacking a strawman.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 11:15 AM
The reason why the USA as a whole has higher rates of gun crime on average than other western countries is not because of our relatively lax gun laws, but because Democrats are so bad at governing that they turn America's major cities into impoverished, crime-ridden sewers. They've tried dealing with this problem by passing onerous gun control laws, going so far as to effectively ban all guns within their local jurisdictions. Yet they claim, with a straight face, that they don't actually want to ban guns. Democrats are a hot mess of dysfunction, denial, and dishonesty. I don't know how this country will survive them.
exotix
10-05-2017, 11:49 AM
The reason why the USA as a whole has higher rates of gun crime on average than other western countries is not because of our relatively lax gun laws, but because Democrats are so bad at governing that they turn America's major cities into impoverished, crime-ridden sewers. They've tried dealing with this problem by passing onerous gun control laws, going so far as to effectively ban all guns within their local jurisdictions. Yet they claim, with a straight face, that they don't actually want to ban guns. Democrats are a hot mess of dysfunction, denial, and dishonesty. I don't know how this country will survive them.You should have titled the thread ...
'Dems are the reason for poverty and crime and that's why they grab guns and kill people and each other'
Common
10-05-2017, 12:34 PM
Lay a gun on the ground and leave it there till it turns to dust and it wont hurt a soul,
Before guns there were wars, Rome took over the world with out guns and Murdered millions. Genghis Khan murdered untold humans without guns.
Throughout history the crusades on and on there was untold murders without guns.
Its not GUNS its the people, People
exotix
10-05-2017, 12:43 PM
Lay a gun on the ground and leave it there till it turns to dust and it wont hurt a soul,
Before guns there were wars, Rome took over the world with out guns and Murdered millions. Genghis Khan murdered untold humans without guns.
Throughout history the crusades on and on there was untold murders without guns.
Its not GUNS its the people, PeopleI'm not sure how this is relevant in a thread that specifically blames Dems.
Adelaide
10-05-2017, 12:51 PM
I offered the same explanation in another thread, coupled with the fact that US gun culture has a basis in history that makes it unique from other places. The comparisons that I see people trying to make between Australian or Canadian gun control and the United States are very irrelevant, honestly. Add to that with the fact that there are socioeconomic and societal issues within the United States that seem to be driving gun crimes, and it makes the comparisons even more inapplicable.
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 12:55 PM
Notice how fast I debunked the OP's assertion that poverty and crime is the reason for gun crime that is the Dem's fault.
Unless of course Stephen Paddock was a Dem ... and a wealthy one at that.
I don't believe he said it is THE reason. Just one of the biggest reasons.
I also didn't see him blaming Democrats. He was just asking why Democrats focus their attention on the gun instead of the human component which uses the gun as their tool.
Just once it would be nice if you represented the views or comments of others in an honest way. Why can't you do that? Is it because you can't refute or counter the views of others without misrepresenting the things they say?
exotix
10-05-2017, 01:08 PM
I don't believe he said it is THE reason. Just one of the biggest reasons.
I also didn't see him blaming Democrats. He was just asking why Democrats focus their attention on the gun instead of the human component which uses the gun as their tool.
Just once it would be nice if you represented the views or comments of others in an honest way. Why can't you do that? Is it because you can't refute or counter the views of others without misrepresenting the things they say?In the first 3 posts, the OP literally made the arguments that this is all Dems' fault ... and then he kept blaming Dems even after I posted .... this is what conservatives do after every gun-massacre.
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 01:27 PM
In the first 3 posts, the OP literally made the arguments that this is all Dems' fault ... and then he kept blaming Dems even after I posted .... this is what conservatives do after every gun-massacre.
There's no such thing as a "gun massacre". The gun was useless until the human used it in a criminally violent way. And yes, Democrats seem to focus their attention on the gun instead of the human who committed the violent act. It seems like they try to minimize the human role. Somehow just the existence of the gun forced him to committ the violent act.
exotix
10-05-2017, 01:32 PM
There's no such thing as a "gun massacre". The gun was useless until the human used it in a criminally violent way. And yes, Democrats seem to focus their attention on the gun instead of the human who committed the violent act. It seems like they try to minimize the human role. Somehow just the existence of the gun forced him to committ the violent act.I believe the OP pretty much summed-it-up that all of it is the Dems' fault with this one ...
The reason why the USA as a whole has higher rates of gun crime on average than other western countries is not because of our relatively lax gun laws, but because Democrats are so bad at governing that they turn America's major cities into impoverished, crime-ridden sewers.
They've tried dealing with this problem by passing onerous gun control laws, going so far as to effectively ban all guns within their local jurisdictions.
Yet they claim, with a straight face, that they don't actually want to ban guns.
Democrats are a hot mess of dysfunction, denial, and dishonesty.
I don't know how this country will survive them.
Cletus
10-05-2017, 01:40 PM
This could have been a good thread ...
And then you showed up.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 02:01 PM
You should have titled the thread ...
'Dems are the reason for poverty and crime and that's why they grab guns and kill people and each other'
Although that title would be an accurate approximation of the issue, it lacks the kind of brevity one would expect in a thread title.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 02:04 PM
In the first 3 posts, the OP literally made the arguments that this is all Dems' fault ... and then he kept blaming Dems even after I posted .... this is what conservatives do after every gun-massacre.
I didn't blame Democrats in my OP. I simply opined on their culpability after the fact. Thus far, you haven't produced a cogent rebuttal to my position. Probably because there isn't one.
exotix
10-05-2017, 02:12 PM
I didn't blame Democrats in my OP. I simply opined on their culpability after the fact.
Thus far, you haven't produced a cogent rebuttal to my position.
Probably because there isn't one.Sure there is ... simply ban guns in poverty-stricken crime-ridden Dem enclaves ...
Common
10-05-2017, 02:16 PM
Its no ones fault but the sole nutjob that commits a mass murder. Only a very sick individual commits a mass murder in people that not only havent done anything to him but people they dont know.
Its no parties fault, no persons fault and its not the guns fault either.
Common
10-05-2017, 02:20 PM
Sure there is ... simply ban guns in poverty-stricken crime-ridden Dem enclaves ...
Wouldnt lower the crime rate one iota, all the guns they use are illegal.
Take the total number of gun deaths in america yearly. Deduct suicides and those committed in cities and you will have 90% of gun crime
Common Sense
10-05-2017, 02:27 PM
Wouldnt lower the crime rate one iota, all the guns they use are illegal.
Take the total number of gun deaths in america yearly. Deduct suicides and those committed in cities and you will have 90% of gun crime
Where do they get these so called illegal guns?
Common Sense
10-05-2017, 02:30 PM
I for one don't see legislation as the only way to solve the issue. Like most issues, it is complex and requires a whole host of approaches to negate the issue. Reduction is the only reasonable goal. No one thinks any measure, including legislation, will solve the problem completely. But that's not a reason to not try. Every life saved is worth it.
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 02:32 PM
I believe the OP pretty much summed-it-up that all of it is the Dems' fault with this one ...
It is a fact that the most violent cities in America are run completely by very liberal Democrats. Is that just an odd coincidence?
Captain Obvious
10-05-2017, 02:32 PM
Every life saved is worth it.
...unless it's an unborn child.
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 02:33 PM
I for one don't see legislation as the only way to solve the issue.....
Imagine that. Sure didn't see that coming. Is there any issue that you believe can't solved through more legislation?
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 02:35 PM
It's worth millions of people losing their individual liberties if it saves just one life.
Sheesh....
Common Sense
10-05-2017, 02:37 PM
...unless it's an unborn child.
Give it a rest. It's not the topic.
Common Sense
10-05-2017, 02:37 PM
Imagine that. Sure didn't see that coming. Is there any issue that you believe can't solved through more legislation?
Did you read what I wrote?
Captain Obvious
10-05-2017, 02:42 PM
Give it a rest. It's not the topic.
Why? Snowflake doesn't like being proven to be a hypocrite.
It is relevant to the debate to show that when you say you care about lives you really don't.
Common Sense
10-05-2017, 02:45 PM
Why? Snowflake doesn't like being proven to be a hypocrite.
It is relevant to the debate to show that when you say you care about lives you really don't.
If anything, it proves your hypocrisy.
Start another thread on it if you wish.
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 02:45 PM
Did you read what I wrote?
Yes I did. You were quite clear. More legislation is required to remedy the situation. It won't work, but we need to try.
Common Sense
10-05-2017, 02:47 PM
Yes I did. You were quite clear. More legislation is required to remedy the situation. It won't work, but we need to try.
So you didn't read it.
"I for one don't see legislation as the only way to solve the issue."
Tahuyaman
10-05-2017, 02:50 PM
So you didn't read it.
"I for one don't see legislation as the only way to solve the issue."
I did read it. Legislation is not a way to solve it. Period. Legislation is meaningless and only implemented to make one feel better. By supporting more legislation, you demonstrate that you care. Now you can feel like you are part of the solution and those who disagree are part of the problem.
Ethereal
10-05-2017, 03:28 PM
I for one don't see legislation as the only way to solve the issue. Like most issues, it is complex and requires a whole host of approaches to negate the issue. Reduction is the only reasonable goal. No one thinks any measure, including legislation, will solve the problem completely. But that's not a reason to not try.
I didn't say we shouldn't try to reduce gun violence. I said there are ways to reduce it OTHER than fixating endlessly on the guns themselves. For whatever reason, those other options are rarely if ever explored in the aftermath of a shooting. It's always guns, guns, guns.
Every life saved is worth it.
Is it really? I mean, if we banned all guns, it might save some lives. But would it be worth it?
Ethereal
10-06-2017, 12:48 PM
One would assume if Democrats were truly interested in reducing gun violence, that they would place more emphasis on the root causes of gun crime. Instead, they just try to restrict and prohibit the rights of millions of law abiding, decent Americans.
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