The calm before the storm... [Archive]

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 10:06 PM

There will be two wars then, one domestically.

Bedwetters who will never accept Trump as their president will riot.

At the end of the day it could turn out to be a good thing.
I suspect that if things deteriorate, there will be more than left-leaning people protesting. The anti-Hillary voters might express some disagreement as well. Then there will be a pretty significant hue and cry in the rest of the world. Allegiances may be tested to their limits.

Captain Obvious

10-07-2017, 10:12 PM

I suspect that if things deteriorate, there will be more than left-leaning people protesting. The anti-Hillary voters might express some disagreement as well. Then there will be a pretty significant hue and cry in the rest of the world. Allegiances may be tested to their limits.

I don't see a war with either of them tbh.

Mister D

10-07-2017, 10:19 PM

These are the same people ratcheting up tensions with Russia. Pardon me if I lol.

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 10:20 PM

I don't see a war with either of them tbh.

I hope you are right.

waltky

10-07-2017, 10:38 PM

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... Rocket Boy gonna shoot off another one o' his missiles...

... an' den all Hell gonna break loose."

Peter1469

10-07-2017, 10:51 PM

Monday is a holiday for NK, and I expect they will pop off another missile. We may go for a shoot down. That could escalate into war fast.

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 10:59 PM

Monday is a holiday for NK, and I expect they will pop off another missile. We may go for a shoot down. That could escalate into war fast.
I was hoping to see you in this thread. How bad would it be to be at war with NK and Iran at the same time, with Russia and China weighing their options?

Peter1469

10-07-2017, 11:05 PM

I was hoping to see you in this thread. How bad would it be to be at war with NK and Iran at the same time, with Russia and China weighing their options?

I don't see any scenario where there would be a war with NK and Iran at the same time. So far as NK goes, I don't see Russia getting involved. China is a wild card since we will be attacking NK. (They have already said they would not get involved if NK started it).

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 11:13 PM

I don't see any scenario where there would be a war with NK and Iran at the same time. So far as NK goes, I don't see Russia getting involved. China is a wild card since we will be attacking NK. (They have already said they would not get involved if NK started it).
If the US attacks NK for launching another missile, does that qualify as 'starting it'? Trump specifically mentioned Iran's nuclear program as a target. They both seem to be on the agenda at the same time.

pragmatic

10-07-2017, 11:13 PM

Reality check.

Trump is an unpredictable wild card.

A lot of innocent people could potentially die in this picture.

Captain Obvious

10-07-2017, 11:16 PM

Reality check.

Trump is an unpredictable wild card.

A lot of innocent people could potentially die in this picture.

The POTUS cannot declare war

Peter1469

10-07-2017, 11:21 PM

If the US attacks NK for launching another missile, does that qualify as 'starting it'? Trump specifically mentioned Iran's nuclear program as a target. They both seem to be on the agenda at the same time.

It depends. If the missile is not aimed at the US or an ally, China would say a US response would be "starting it."

So far as Iran goes, we are not close to a shooting war. Unlike NK.

jimmyz

10-07-2017, 11:21 PM

I think that the war drums are beating and he has both Iran and NK in his sights. That could well bring in Russia and China respectively. He's playing a dangerous game that could deteriorate into a world war.
Dont worry. We will protect Canada and its citizens with our blood and treasure. You and your family will be fine.

Peter1469

10-07-2017, 11:22 PM

Reality check.

Trump is an unpredictable wild card.

A lot of innocent people could potentially die in this picture.

North Korea can't have the ability to destroy the US with an EMP attack.

People will die if the US acts. That is life.

resister

10-07-2017, 11:24 PM

Such is war, if we sit idly by, more will die.
North Korea can't have the ability to destroy the US with an EMP attack.

People will die if the US acts. That is life.

Common

10-07-2017, 11:25 PM

I was hoping to see you in this thread. How bad would it be to be at war with NK and Iran at the same time, with Russia and China weighing their options?

Iran is no threat to the US mainland, they dont have anything that can hit us.

China will not make a move again us and neither will russia.

That leaves NK should we wait and let him get a nuke and hit our country before we do something. Uhh thats not acceptable to me because by then many thousands would be dead already.

AZ Jim

10-07-2017, 11:27 PM

It will be what it will be, time for the US to stop bending over and funding nuclear development for this nations enemies.You enlisting to fight where trump was too cowardly?

AZ Jim

10-07-2017, 11:28 PM

The POTUS cannot declare warDuh...So what? It's been done many times.

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 11:29 PM

The POTUS cannot declare war
Well, it's complicated.

The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days), with a further 30-day withdrawal period, without a Congressional authorization for use of military force (AUMF) or a declaration of war by the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States). The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding the veto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_veto) of the bill from President Nixon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

This begs the question of how much warfare could be waged in 48 hours or even 60-90 days without a formal declaration of war. Constitutional debates about the War Powers Resolution abound.

Captain Obvious

10-07-2017, 11:30 PM

Duh...So what? It's been done many times.

Stop being a fool.

resister

10-07-2017, 11:31 PM

Tried when I was 28, sadly, the Army discriminated against me like many liberal posters here do.
You enlisting to fight where trump was too cowardly?

Captain Obvious

10-07-2017, 11:32 PM

Well, it's complicated.

The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days), with a further 30-day withdrawal period, without a Congressional authorization for use of military force (AUMF) or a declaration of war by the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States). The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding the veto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_veto) of the bill from President Nixon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

This begs the question of how much warfare could be waged in 48 hours or even 60-90 days without a formal declaration of war. Constitutional debates about the War Powers Resolution abound.

I understand that, how many recent presidents engaged in "military actions" in lieu of war, and in fairness they were not wars like Iraq of Afghanistan.

Common

10-07-2017, 11:33 PM

No, but it's complicated.

The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days), with a further 30-day withdrawal period, without a Congressional authorization for use of military force (AUMF) or a declaration of war by the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States). The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding the veto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_veto) of the bill from President Nixon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

This begs the question of how much warfare could be waged in 48 hours or even 60-90 days without a formal declaration of war. Constitutional debates about the War Powers Resolution abound.

cmon doc youre not dealing with reality you creating scenarios all of which trump is a bad guy.

We are not going to war with iran china or russia. This little fat punk may very well push the issue. Somewhere along the line hes got to be stopped, liberals keep talking about trump said this trump said that.

But they never mention what kim is doing to bring on those reactions
We have a country defying treaties and firing rockets. Hes threatened Japan and the US several times. We are all sitting and watching his capabilities of delivery growing. Soon he will be able to hit the USA. Doing nothing in the longterm isnt looking like an option

AZ Jim

10-07-2017, 11:34 PM

Tried when I was 28, sadly, the Army discriminated against me like many liberal posters here do.Deesn't that give you a clue? Grow up.

AZ Jim

10-07-2017, 11:43 PM

Piss off, grumpy. Quit following me, leg humper20345I've been her 7 months longer than you but have 13,337 less posts. Maybe it's you who is so eager to jump on every fucking post? Don't play with me boy, I have given yo slack but my patience is running out.

resister

10-07-2017, 11:50 PM

Like I said, I am a live in caretaker of a loved one, now piss off and go hump another leg, your impotent patience or lack thereof, matters not, your every post to me (in fairness, most) matters not one little bit...:rollseyes:
I've been her 7 months longer than you but have 13,337 less posts. Maybe it's you who is so eager to jump on every fucking post? Don't play with me boy, I have given yo slack but my patience is running out.

Captain Obvious

10-07-2017, 11:51 PM

C'mon guys, you're totally fucking up Who's thread.

This is the serious section.

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 11:52 PM

cmon doc youre not dealing with reality you creating scenarios all of which trump is a bad guy.

We are not going to war with iran china or russia. This little fat punk may very well push the issue. Somewhere along the line hes got to be stopped, liberals keep talking about trump said this trump said that.

But they never mention what kim is doing to bring on those reactions
We have a country defying treaties and firing rockets. Hes threatened Japan and the US several times. We are all sitting and watching his capabilities of delivery growing. Soon he will be able to hit the USA. Doing nothing in the longterm isnt looking like an option
I'm going to be very frank. It's not like I have any use for little Kim - I think he's a nutcase, however, NK has powerful allies and it's those allies that scare me. History has proven, time and again, that these things can escalate in unpredictable ways when are a lot of egos are in play.

At the time of the Vietnam war, China was a backwater country. Not so much anymore. Russia and the US are not having a love affair and Putin has an ego that might even exceed Trump's. This is their backyard. I am not certain that Trump wouldn't drop a nuke on NK. He is impulsive, the Commander and Chief and likes yes men to advise him, which IMO is a bad combination. I would hope that the senior members of the military would refuse to do something that would bring about nuclear warfare, but who really knows?

AZ Jim

10-07-2017, 11:52 PM

resister

10-07-2017, 11:55 PM

Go ahead and flood the board with your "LOSER" BS!!!!

Dr. Who

10-07-2017, 11:57 PM

I've been her 7 months longer than you but have 13,337 less posts. Maybe it's you who is so eager to jump on every fucking post? Don't play with me boy, I have given yo slack but my patience is running out.

Like I said, I am a live in caretaker of a loved one, now piss off and go hump another leg, your impotent patience or lack thereof, matters not, your every post to me (in fairness, most) matters not one little bit...:rollseyes:

Let me remind you both in which part of the forum that you are posting. This is the Serious Side.

AZ Jim

10-07-2017, 11:58 PM

I'm outta here.

resister

10-08-2017, 12:01 AM

At the rate NK is going, a first strike from kim is very likely, do you think that Trump simply dialing back the saber rattling, will solve everything?
I'm going to be very frank. It's not like I have any use for little Kim - I think he's a nutcase, however, NK has powerful allies and it's those allies that scare me. History has proven, time and again, that these things can escalate in unpredictable ways when are a lot of egos are in play.

At the time of the Vietnam war, China was a backwater country. Not so much anymore. Russia and the US are not having a love affair and Putin has an ego that might even exceed Trump's. This is their backyard. I am not certain that Trump wouldn't drop a nuke on NK. He is impulsive, the Commander and Chief and likes yes men to advise him, which IMO is a bad combination. I would hope that the senior members of the military would refuse to do something that would bring about nuclear warfare, but who really knows?

Dr. Who

10-08-2017, 12:12 AM

At the rate NK is going, a first strike from kim is very likely, do you think that Trump simply dialing back the saber rattling, will solve everything?
Public saber rattling is far worse than private saber rattling. It doesn't provide a diplomatic solution very readily. There is this concept of losing face in Asia and it is taken rather seriously. Chinese President Xi Jinping is not going to want to look like Trump's lap dog.

resister

10-08-2017, 12:18 AM

The last several POTUS's just ignored the guy (and his predescessors) look where that got us. Trump does not share all the blame.

Past policy has emboldened NK. It is time someone acts, preferably, not NK first! The question is, who would you rather see nuked? Nk's or Americans?
Public saber rattling is far worse than private saber rattling. It doesn't provide a diplomatic solution very readily. There is this concept of losing face in Asia and it is taken rather seriously. Chinese President Xi Jinping is not going to want to look like Trump's lap dog.

Dr. Who

10-08-2017, 12:29 AM

The last several POTUS's just ignored the guy (and his predescessors) look where that got us. Trump does not share all the blame.

Past policy has emboldened NK. It is time someone acts, preferably, not NK first! The question is, who would you rather see nuked? Nk's or Americans?
I don't want anyone to be nuked. Little Kim is not the people of NK. There must be a better way to work with the Chinese to usurp Kim's ambitions and irresponsible behavior, even if it means the annexation of NK by China.

Captain Obvious

10-08-2017, 12:30 AM

Dr. Who

10-08-2017, 12:51 AM

The people of NK are entirely neutered. They have been convinced that we are the enemy.That's the problem with propaganda and restriction of information. However, it is also rather insulting to dictate which nations may or may not have nuclear technology and weapons and you have to ask yourself why they want those weapons? In the case of NK, they have SK and by definition the US sitting on their border giving them the stink eye. Given the history, they have reason to be nervous that if they let their guard down for a minute, they will lose their independence. The best way to reach an accord is to understand where they are coming from and offer a solution that leaves both parties with their dignity intact.

resister

10-08-2017, 12:59 AM

I think we are past that point, NK see's themselves as an island and the world stands against them. Not sure that any resolutions would change that mentality.

Trump should ask them, what do you want, what would make you happy and cool your jets?
That's the problem with propaganda and restriction of information. However, it is also rather insulting to dictate which nations may or may not have nuclear technology and weapons and you have to ask yourself why they want those weapons? In the case of NK, they have SK and by definition the US sitting on their border giving them the stink eye. Given the history, they have reason to be nervous that if they let their guard down for a minute, they will lose their independence. The best way to reach an accord is to understand where they are coming from and offer a solution that leaves both parties with their dignity intact.

resister

10-08-2017, 01:00 AM

Nor do I, but that seems to be the path we are on, I choose NK's over Americans.
I don't want anyone to be nuked. Little Kim is not the people of NK. There must be a better way to work with the Chinese to usurp Kim's ambitions and irresponsible behavior, even if it means the annexation of NK by China.

Cletus

10-08-2017, 02:23 AM

Cletus

10-08-2017, 02:26 AM

Public saber rattling is far worse than private saber rattling. It doesn't provide a diplomatic solution very readily. There is this concept of losing face in Asia and it is taken rather seriously. Chinese President Xi Jinping is not going to want to look like Trump's lap dog.

China will not go to war with the US over North Korea.

resister

10-08-2017, 02:33 AM

My urine was hard to clean up!
I am sure that has got him quaking in his boots.

DGUtley

10-08-2017, 05:56 AM

We do not need another war.

DGUtley

10-08-2017, 05:58 AM

That's the problem with propaganda and restriction of information. However, it is also rather insulting to dictate which nations may or may not have nuclear technology and weapons and you have to ask yourself why they want those weapons? In the case of NK, they have SK and by definition the US sitting on their border giving them the stink eye. Given the history, they have reason to be nervous that if they let their guard down for a minute, they will lose their independence. The best way to reach an accord is to understand where they are coming from and offer a solution that leaves both parties with their dignity intact.

“Given the history....”?

When has the US offensively moved against NK?

Peter1469

10-08-2017, 06:22 AM

We do not need another war.

No. But sometimes you don't get a vote. If NK can destroy the US with an EMP attack, NK must be neutralized.

Chris

10-08-2017, 07:53 AM

I think he was talking about Nate. :D

Dr. Who

10-08-2017, 08:17 AM

“Given the history....”?

When has the US offensively moved against NK?
There was the Korean war. NK didn't formally exist at the time, but the war was fought over political ideology and technically a state of war still exists.

DGUtley

10-08-2017, 08:28 AM

There was the Korean war. NK didn't formally exist at the time, but the war was fought over political ideology and technically a state of war still exists.

The war began on 25 June 1950 when North Korea invaded South Korea. The United Nations (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations), with the United States as the principal force, came to the aid of South Korea. China came to the aid of North Korea, and the Soviet Union also gave some assistance to the North. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

So, what history justifies NK?

Crepitus

10-08-2017, 08:32 AM

The POTUS cannot declare war

He may not be able to declare one, but that hasn't stopped any of them from starting one.

Dr. Who

10-08-2017, 09:01 AM

The war began on 25 June 1950 when North Korea invaded South Korea. The United Nations (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations), with the United States as the principal force, came to the aid of South Korea. China came to the aid of North Korea, and the Soviet Union also gave some assistance to the North. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

So, what history justifies NK?
Justifies their anxiety? Perhaps the fact that the US does not recognize NK's right to exist. It still considers South Korea as the sole legitimate representative of all of Korea. The US doesn't even have formal diplomatic relations with NK. Beyond that, tensions between the US and NK have been growing steadily ever since NK launched that satellite in 2012 and the US began imposing sanctions.

Fredy

10-08-2017, 11:37 AM

The POTUS cannot declare war
Sure.

That's why we stayed out of Korea the first time, Viet Nam, the DR, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

Captain Obvious

10-08-2017, 12:34 PM

Sure.

That's why we stayed out of Korea the first time, Viet Nam, the DR, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

Constitutional violations that Congress failed to enforce.

That Congress looks the other way on a military action doesn't give a POTUS unilateral power to do so.

Ravens Fan

10-08-2017, 04:35 PM

MisterVeritis

10-08-2017, 05:59 PM

I would hope that the senior members of the military would refuse to do something that would bring about nuclear warfare, but who really knows?
That is called a coup. If it happens the generals need to be shot on the spot.

MisterVeritis

10-08-2017, 06:11 PM

I don't want anyone to be nuked. Little Kim is not the people of NK. There must be a better way to work with the Chinese to usurp Kim's ambitions and irresponsible behavior, even if it means the annexation of NK by China.
If China wanted a different situation than the one we see China would have already acted.

I see two wars. I see a war with Iran. I do not believe it will be averted or avoided. I believe it will be a shadow war unless Iran exhibits a nuclear breakout capability. Then I believe Israel will strike the most critical targets in Iran.

We should be doing all we can to support regime change in Iran.

North Korea has nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles. They have what it takes to destroy the North American electrical grid. I believe they have it today. An American president cannot allow the North Koreans to have a nation-killing technology. So we will end it. It is clear to me, with no insider information, that we have dusted off and updated our war planning, up to and including nuclear fires against a broad array of targets from known and likely mobile missile launch sites, command and control, logistics, and all of the supporting structure (scientists and engineers). I believe there have already been staff exercises without troops, and many tabletop exercises.

A few months ago I mentioned many wars begin in April.

What will happen when North Korea rolls out three or more mobile missile launchers with intercontinental range? In my opinion, this will mark the beginning of the end of the North Korean communist regime.

Captdon

10-09-2017, 10:22 AM

I was hoping to see you in this thread. How bad would it be to be at war with NK and Iran at the same time, with Russia and China weighing their options?

What options? You think either is gong to attack us for NK or Iran?

MisterVeritis

10-10-2017, 11:43 AM

BOLTON LASHES OUT AT MATTIS, TILLERSON:

Former ambassador John Bolton is taking Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to task for what appears to be their public break with President Trump over the Iran nuclear deal, arguing that if members of Trump's Cabinet have reservations, they need to keep them to themselves. "I think it's unfortunate overall, frankly, to have your top national security Cabinet members and advisers speaking in public about what their personal views are on highly important and very grave matters of foreign and defense policy," he said on Fox News Monday.

Bolton was asked about Mattis and Tillerson, whose cautious public statements have given the impression they privately oppose Trump's pending decision to decertify the Iran nuclear deal, a move he is expected to announce this week. "I just don't think that these kinds of debates are to be held in public," he said. "I think you hold them in the sit[uation] room, in a National Security Council meeting, or in the Oval Office.

http://dod.structure.email/newsletter/daily-on-defense-oct-10-2017-mattis-says-be-ready

I hope President Trump will pull us out of this horrible deal and stop supporting it. It is time to completely end it. And it is time to rebuild for the coming war with Iran.