Congress warned North Korea EMP attack would kill 90% of Americans within 1 year

[Peter1469]

Congress warned North Korea EMP attack would kill 90% of Americans within 1 year (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/congress-warned-north-korean-emp-attack-would-kill-90-of-all-americans/article/2637349)

Members of the ex-EMP Commission try again to wake Congress up. This is the most serious threat we face. We need to harden the grid. Now.


Congress was warned Thursday that North Korea is capable of attacking the U.S. today with a nuclear EMP bomb that could indefinitely shut down the electric power grid and kill 90 percent of "all Americans" within a year.

At a House hearing, (http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/20171012/106467/HHRG-115-HM09-Wstate-PryP-20171012.pdf) experts said that North Korea could easily employ the "doomsday scenario" to turn parts of the U.S. to ashes.


In calling on the Pentagon and President Trump to move quickly to protect the grid, the experts testified that an explosion of a high-altitude nuclear bomb delivered by a missile or satellite "could be to shut down the U.S. electric power grid for an indefinite period, leading to the death within a year of up to 90 percent of all Americans."

We see what is happening in Puerto Rico- think of most of North America without electricity.

[Perianne]

We see what is happening in Puerto Rico- think of most of North America without electricity.
Exactly right, Peter. You have been warning about this for a long time. I have been in total agreement with you. EVERYTHING that has electronics circuitry is subject to EMP attack.

People are mean enough in this world as things are. Imagine everyone around without food.

Thus, one of the reasons I have guns and ammo.

[MisterVeritis]

Exactly right, Peter. You have been warning about this for a long time. I have been in total agreement with you. EVERYTHING that has electronics circuitry is subject to EMP attack.

People are mean enough in this world as things are. Imagine everyone around without food.

Thus, one of the reasons I have guns and ammo.
The big immediate killers will be a lack of clean water and loss of sewage disposal.

[gamewell45]

Think of all those people with pacemakers, they'd most likely blow out on them during an EMP attack, no cars since any car made after 1976 runs with the assistance of printed circuit boards, stoves, microwaves, refrigerators, computers, television/radio sets (unless you are lucky enough to have tubes as opposed to chips), most generators and of course as mentioned, the power grid. Things will get ugly for a while until most people realize that there is nothing to steal of value.

[Captdon]

Congress has also been warned about invasions from outer space. EMP's aren't easy to develop and harder to use. NK doesn't have anything or they be dead as dead. It will become a problem down the road but we have time to build hardened systems too.

[Peter1469]

The big immediate killers will be a lack of clean water and loss of sewage disposal.

And people with medical conditions that require electricity to keep them alive. That includes the fat ass diabetics.

[MisterVeritis]

Congress has also been warned about invasions from outer space. EMP's aren't easy to develop and harder to use. NK doesn't have anything or they be dead as dead. It will become a problem down the road but we have time to build hardened systems too.
All nuclear weapons generate an electromagnetic pulse. So creating an EMP weapon is as easy as creating a low-yield nuclear munition. A year ago the Norks were years away from sophisticated weapons. Today they have them. A year ago the public assessment was the Norks might have as many as six crude weapons unable to be mounted on ballistic missiles. Today we are claiming they may have as many as sixty weapons including warheads mounted to ballistic missiles.

I believe you err. We are in danger today.

[MisterVeritis]

And people with medical conditions that require electricity to keep them alive. That includes the fat ass diabetics.
True. But the waterborne diseases will kill many of them first.

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... Rev. Pat Robertson onna 700 Club always talkin' `bout...

... how a No. Korean EMP would send us back to the Stone Age...

... the Donald needs to prevent dat from happenin'.

[Peter1469]

They also have two satellites t (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/809986/North-Korean-satellites-EMP-attack-Kim-Jong-Un)hat may be weaponized.
All nuclear weapons generate an electromagnetic pulse. So creating an EMP weapon is as easy as creating a low-yield nuclear munition. A year ago the Norks were years away from sophisticated weapons. Today they have them. A year ago the public assessment was the Norks might have as many as six crude weapons unable to be mounted on ballistic missiles. Today we are claiming they may have as many as sixty weapons including warheads mounted to ballistic missiles.

I believe you err. We are in danger today.

[MisterVeritis]

They also have two satellites t (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/809986/North-Korean-satellites-EMP-attack-Kim-Jong-Un)hat may be weaponized.
More importantly, they can use the south polar orbit to strike us with little warning.

I met Peter Pry and a few of his cohorts. He is an impressive man. I read one of his "works" long ago when I was an intelligence officer on an airborne command post. I won't tell you the subject.

[Captdon]

All nuclear weapons generate an electromagnetic pulse. So creating an EMP weapon is as easy as creating a low-yield nuclear munition. A year ago the Norks were years away from sophisticated weapons. Today they have them. A year ago the public assessment was the Norks might have as many as six crude weapons unable to be mounted on ballistic missiles. Today we are claiming they may have as many as sixty weapons including warheads mounted to ballistic missiles.

I believe you err. We are in danger today.

They have to explode at high altitude. NK hasn't been able to get a missile that can withstand re-entry.

I think our military has the capability to knckc what they have down. They seem to, at least. I also don't believe Kim is crazy.

If I err, we'll never know it.

[Peter1469]

They have to explode at high altitude. NK hasn't been able to get a missile that can withstand re-entry.

I think our military has the capability to knckc what they have down. They seem to, at least. I also don't believe Kim is crazy.

If I err, we'll never know it.

Sure you will. An EMP strike won't kill you directly. It will just force you to live in a society trust into a pre-industrial age. That will collapse society.

[Cthulhu]

Sure you will. An EMP strike won't kill you directly. It will just force you to live in a society trust into a pre-industrial age. That will collapse society.In the most horrific of ways as well.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[MisterVeritis]

They have to explode at high altitude. NK hasn't been able to get a missile that can withstand re-entry.

I think our military has the capability to knckc what they have down. They seem to, at least. I also don't believe Kim is crazy.

If I err, we'll never know it.
I know it today. :-)

Re-entry is not required. A detonation above 40 kilometers of a weapon greater than around 20 kilotons will be enough. The E1 component, created by the interaction of gamma radiation with molecules in the upper atmosphere will generate enough voltage to interfere with, damage or destroy most electronic devices.

[Don]

A clear and present danger should be the attitude of the government to make hardening the grid a top priority. It should be considered an emergency. For a few years I've heard our military leaders say that "global warming" is a clear and present danger but not so much when it comes to this issue. The solar flare in the 1800's showed what can happen to a crude system like we had then. If it happens now it would be no different than a high altitude nuclear burst. If it happens I'm sure the country would go into emergency military mode to repair the damage and deal with the consequences. It would be much easier and cheaper to just take care of the problem now. In war we convert part of the economy to make war material. It wouldn't take that much to expand companies that make transformers and make them able to handle the pulse. Put out bids like like we did to build war materials and require power companies to replace the old ones in a reasonable amount of time. There could be tax incentives to help out. Cheaper and easier by far than dealing with the aftermath.

[Peter1469]

A clear and present danger should be the attitude of the government to make hardening the grid a top priority. It should be considered an emergency. For a few years I've heard our military leaders say that "global warming" is a clear and present danger but not so much when it comes to this issue. The solar flare in the 1800's showed what can happen to a crude system like we had then. If it happens now it would be no different than a high altitude nuclear burst. If it happens I'm sure the country would go into emergency military mode to repair the damage and deal with the consequences. It would be much easier and cheaper to just take care of the problem now. In war we convert part of the economy to make war material. It wouldn't take that much to expand companies that make transformers and make them able to handle the pulse. Put out bids like like we did to build war materials and require power companies to replace the old ones in a reasonable amount of time. There could be tax incentives to help out. Cheaper and easier by far than dealing with the aftermath.
The House has passed several bills to harden the grid. The Senate always blocks them.

[gamewell45]

And people with medical conditions that require electricity to keep them alive. That includes the fat ass diabetics.

Be careful, I personally know one or two type 1 diabetics who are lean as a rail; they were born that way.

[Peter1469]

Be careful, I personally know one or two type 1 diabetics who are lean as a rail; they were born that way.

Agree about Type 1.

Type 2 is pure diet.

But the point is without refrigeration their insulin will go bad and they will die.

[MisterVeritis]

A clear and present danger should be the attitude of the government to make hardening the grid a top priority. It should be considered an emergency. For a few years I've heard our military leaders say that "global warming" is a clear and present danger but not so much when it comes to this issue. The solar flare in the 1800's showed what can happen to a crude system like we had then. If it happens now it would be no different than a high altitude nuclear burst. If it happens I'm sure the country would go into emergency military mode to repair the damage and deal with the consequences. It would be much easier and cheaper to just take care of the problem now. In war we convert part of the economy to make war material. It wouldn't take that much to expand companies that make transformers and make them able to handle the pulse. Put out bids like like we did to build war materials and require power companies to replace the old ones in a reasonable amount of time. There could be tax incentives to help out. Cheaper and easier by far than dealing with the aftermath.
There are no quick fixes.

One large transformer takes almost two years to build. There are just a few places in the world that make them. After an EMP attack, we might need a few thousand of them.

We do know how to harden the grid. But the federal government will not act so it will not be hardened. The electrical companies are so highly regulated no one will do anything without a law directing them along with an ability to raise their rates to recover the extraordinary cost. Tax incentives won't do the trick.

[gamewell45]

Agree about Type 1.

Type 2 is pure diet.

But the point is without refrigeration their insulin will go bad and they will die.

This is very true.

[Cthulhu]

There are no quick fixes.

One large transformer takes almost two years to build. There are just a few places in the world that make them. After an EMP attack, we might need a few thousand of them.

We do know how to harden the grid. But the federal government will not act so it will not be hardened. The electrical companies are so highly regulated no one will do anything without a law directing them along with an ability to raise their rates to recover the extraordinary cost. Tax incentives won't do the trick.The biggest problem is the transformers. Because they are also expensive. Additionally, the amount of equipment that would need to be reworked to accommodate such a project would be mind boggling.

The tens of thousands of miles of conductor... Not to mention securing the substations and generation stations.

It is an enormous undertaking to harden the grid.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[MisterVeritis]

The biggest problem is the transformers. Because they are also expensive. Additionally, the amount of equipment that would need to be reworked to accommodate such a project would be mind boggling.

The tens of thousands of miles of conductor... Not to mention securing the substations and generation stations.
It is an enormous undertaking to harden the grid.
Sent from my evil cell phone.
I spent a significant amount of time on this problem (CME/EMP and cyber-physical attack) during my last year before I retired. Everything that absolutely needs to be done to harden the grid could be done very quickly. The nice to do things like standard step down transformers (from the bulk transport side to the regional distribution side), plus prepositioning transformers (having spares) would take longer. We could tie together East, West, and Texas, with DC lines in about a year if we elected to make it a national priority.

But we will take no action.

[Ravens Fan]

I spent a significant amount of time on this problem (CME/EMP and cyber-physical attack) during my last year before I retired. Everything that absolutely needs to be done to harden the grid could be done very quickly. The nice to do things like standard step down transformers (from the bulk transport side to the regional distribution side), plus prepositioning transformers (having spares) would take longer. We could tie together East, West, and Texas, with DC lines in about a year if we elected to make it a national priority.

But we will take no action.
That's what I don't get. We have been talking about an EMP strike for quite a while now, why aren't we taking action to prevent it?

[Cthulhu]

I spent a significant amount of time on this problem (CME/EMP and cyber-physical attack) during my last year before I retired. Everything that absolutely needs to be done to harden the grid could be done very quickly. The nice to do things like standard step down transformers (from the bulk transport side to the regional distribution side), plus prepositioning transformers (having spares) would take longer. We could tie together East, West, and Texas, with DC lines in about a year if we elected to make it a national priority.

But we will take no action.If all the dominoes lined up perfectly - you are correct.

But then again we're talking about the US government here...

But it is more than just distribution side, the transmission and subtransmission circuits need work too. Just about every single switch would need to be remade - which could be done. But the red tape in such a project is a mammoth task.

Keep in mind this is in addition to all of the maintenance that still needs to be done while this is all occurring. The man power shortage is a serious problem. The personnel who so this stuff - linemen, don't just grow on trees. It's not a stupid guy's job. It is physically demanding and mentally taxing. Not many who can cut it and not get killed in their first year of hot work if you just throw bodies at the problem.

Based off present manpower, is think at least 6ish years before it could be done. That's if we had everything lined up and finding approved to train the personnel, and make the hardware required to be upgraded/installed.

So yeah, you're right. We'll do nothing.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Cthulhu]

That's what I don't get. We have been talking about an EMP strike for quite a while now, why aren't we taking action to prevent it?There is a vested interest in crippling the USA from an economic and military standpoint.

Largely rooted in the UN.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[MisterVeritis]

That's what I don't get. We have been talking about an EMP strike for quite a while now, why aren't we taking action to prevent it?
The utility companies are highly regulated. They will do nothing without direction.