10 Facts about the Postal Servace

[Cigar]

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/319048_10151152223361275_127152645_n.png

[oceanloverOH]

Why is this posted in the Democrats room?

[Peter1469]

Congress doesn't allow the Post Office to run like a business, thus the huge losses.

[Cigar]

Why is this posted in the Democrats room?


Because I wanted to share with my fellow Democrats ... does the truth bother you?

[Chris]

Forgot a fact: Post Office record loss hits $15.9 billion. (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2012/1116/Post-Office-record-loss-hits-15.9-billion.-Retiree-benefits-to-blame.).

You'd think it'd be making a fortune from all the junk mail it delivers.

[Cigar]

Forgot a fact: Post Office record loss hits $15.9 billion. (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2012/1116/Post-Office-record-loss-hits-15.9-billion.-Retiree-benefits-to-blame.).

You'd think it'd be making a fortune from all the junk mail it delivers.

Nice try ... but wrong.

[oceanloverOH]

Because I wanted to share with my fellow Democrats ... does the truth bother you?

I was just curious, that's all....a bit testy this morning, are we?

[Chris]

Nice try ... but wrong.

The $15.9B loss is a fact.

[patrickt]

I think a person's political party can be safely deduced from an organization where members can belong to two unions and it's going broke.

[Cigar]

The $15.9B loss is a fact.

Have you even read the reason why?

[Chris]

Have you even read the reason why?

Does that change the fact?

[Cigar]

Does that change the fact?

Wow ... enough said.

[Chris]

Wow ... enough said.

Indeed, it is a fact the Post Office recorded a record loss of $15.9 billion.

Question is, why did you claim that was wrong?

[Cigar]

Indeed, it is a fact the Post Office recorded a record loss of $15.9 billion.

Question is, why did you claim that was wrong?


You need to do some researching first.

[Chris]

You need to do some researching first.

I did. Did you? Where are your facts then?

[Cigar]

I did. Did you? Where are your facts then?

http://www.carper.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=postal-reform-myths-vs-facts

[patrickt]

Cigar, why don't you just tell Chris the source of your talking points and he can take it from there. Daily Kos? Direct from the White House? George Soros? Huffington Post? Or perhaps tweets from Chris Mathews and the crew at MSNBC?

[Chris]

http://www.carper.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=postal-reform-myths-vs-facts

None of those facts address the fact the Post Office recorded a record loss of $15.9 billion.

[Cigar]

Cigar, why don't you just tell Chris the source of your talking points and he can take it from there. Daily Kos? Direct from the White House? George Soros? Huffington Post? Or perhaps tweets from Chris Mathews and the crew at MSNBC?

Why ... would that change anything?

[Mainecoons]

The post office has simply failed to adjust to its changing market. There is nothing more toxic than the combination of unions and government, it guarantees poor work at high prices and lack of flexibility. The post office is a poster child for why government needs to be cut 40 percent and the unions tossed out of it and schools.

The same "system" is about to take over your health care. Stay healthy, the alternative is to be treated by the equivalent of the post office.

[Cigar]

The Truth About The Post Office's Financial Mess
The financial woes of the U.S. Postal System have become a point of contention on Capitol Hill. The Postal Service is supposed to make a $5.5 billion payment to its retiree health care fund by November 18th... but doesn't have the money.

US Postal Service workers have a retiree health care benefit in addition to their pension. Before Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006, the USPS operated under a pay-as-you-go model for retiree health care funding. The new law requires the Postal Service to pre-fund its benefit obligations.


"The idea is that enough money is saved over the course of a career that the benefit is fully paid for by the time the worker retires.
Thanks to these prefunding payments, the Postal Service has greatly reduced its unfunded obligations for retiree health benefits. At the end of fiscal year 2010, these obligations were under $49 billion – a substantial sum, but much more manageable. If the Postal Service continues making its prefunding payments, its unfunded obligations for retiree health benefits will be around $33 billion by the end of the decade. And the postal service will be on course to pay these benefits over time," a Congressional insider explained.


But this pre-funding has become a lightning rod of controversy. Members of the postal workers union say the pre-funding requirement has created a fiscal mess. Some people have even claimed that law has the effect of requiring the postal service to fund retirement obligations for people who are not yet employed by the USPS--potential future employees.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45018432/The_Truth_About_The_Post_Office_s_Financial_Mess

[patrickt]

The USPS is the guiding light to show us what we have coming with Obamacare.

"We've finished the bypass surgery on your husband and it went flawlessly."
"He died last month."
"Right, but he was still scheduled for surgery and it went really well."

[Cigar]

The USPS is the guiding light to show us what we have coming with Obamacare.

"We've finished the bypass surgery on your husband and it went flawlessly."
"He died last month."
"Right, but he was still scheduled for surgery and it went really well."

Tell your Governor to not participate ... see ... cost savings right off the bat :)

[PhineasTBluster]

I have.

[Chris]

The Truth About The Post Office's Financial Mess
The financial woes of the U.S. Postal System have become a point of contention on Capitol Hill. The Postal Service is supposed to make a $5.5 billion payment to its retiree health care fund by November 18th... but doesn't have the money.

US Postal Service workers have a retiree health care benefit in addition to their pension. Before Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006, the USPS operated under a pay-as-you-go model for retiree health care funding. The new law requires the Postal Service to pre-fund its benefit obligations.


"The idea is that enough money is saved over the course of a career that the benefit is fully paid for by the time the worker retires.
Thanks to these prefunding payments, the Postal Service has greatly reduced its unfunded obligations for retiree health benefits. At the end of fiscal year 2010, these obligations were under $49 billion – a substantial sum, but much more manageable. If the Postal Service continues making its prefunding payments, its unfunded obligations for retiree health benefits will be around $33 billion by the end of the decade. And the postal service will be on course to pay these benefits over time," a Congressional insider explained.


But this pre-funding has become a lightning rod of controversy. Members of the postal workers union say the pre-funding requirement has created a fiscal mess. Some people have even claimed that law has the effect of requiring the postal service to fund retirement obligations for people who are not yet employed by the USPS--potential future employees.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45018432/The_Truth_About_The_Post_Office_s_Financial_Mess

You left out the fact the Post Office recorded a record loss of $15.9 billion.

[Cigar]

The head of the financially struggling U.S. Postal Service says the agency must be allowed to ease the terms of prepayments into a retiree health care fund and eliminate general mail delivery on Saturday.

Patrick Donahoe tells "CBS This Morning" the agency isn't asking Congress for money.

He says, "I think most people don't realize, we're 100 percent self-sufficient. We pay our own way." But the postal chief notes the agency is losing $15.9 billion this year.

Donahoe says the post office needs to refinance retirement health fund payments to $1 billion a year instead of $5 billion.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POSTAL_PROBLEMS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-28-08-48-10

[Chris]

Where has anyone denied anything? Why do you make things up lile that?

[Chris]

You left out the fact the Post Office recorded a record loss of $15.9 billion.

Do you, cigar, deny this fact?

[hanger4]

The head of the financially struggling U.S. Postal Service says the agency must be allowed to ease the terms of prepayments into a retiree health care fund and eliminate general mail delivery on Saturday.

Patrick Donahoe tells "CBS This Morning" the agency isn't asking Congress for money.

He says, "I think most people don't realize, we're 100 percent self-sufficient. We pay our own way." But the postal chief notes the agency is losing $15.9 billion this year.

Donahoe says the post office needs to refinance retirement health fund payments to $1 billion a year instead of $5 billion.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POSTAL_PROBLEMS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-28-08-48-10

Damn Cigar, you just made Chris' point about the USPS losing 15.9 billion this year yet post it under;

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/icons/icon3.png Some more FACTS to deny!WTH am I missing !!

[Cigar]

Damn Cigar, you just made Chris' point about the USPS losing 15.9 billion this year yet post it under;

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/icons/icon3.png Some more FACTS to deny!

WTH am I missing !!

If I make you give Chris $10 ... I guess that's a loss for you.

[nic34]

Maybe I can help Cigar...

Petition Background

Our goal is to save the U.S. Postal Service from drastic cuts in service. We want the postal service to cease closing mail processing plants. We want the postal service to continue 6 day delivery and we want the postal service to stop closing post offices and cutting retail operating hours. Our goal is to see the dramatic overpayments into retirement accounts to stop and be returned to the postal service. The goal of this petition is also to have congress address the hostile working conditions in the US Postal Service and "Union Busting" tactics.

"Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006” scam legislation created by the (outgoing) Repub congress in 2006 to break the PO and the union.

And yes, It looses money because of that.

(Is posting this petition site a no-no?)

[Mainecoons]

Nic, this is hardly a Republican thing. None of these Congress people understand that 6 day delivery and many, many of these post offices need to go. Do your homework, this is a bi-partisan caused mess. And you still get back to the fundamental problem, they simply do not have the kind and level of business that justifies the size and employment levels of the organization. In the real world, businesses faced like this change and downsize. The post office doesn't change because of its entrenched bureaucracy and lack of real-world motivation, plus the fact that the Congress won't get out of the way and let them downsize.

[nic34]

It IS about busting unions... a big one.

Let's see... what large organization that is not a large corporation usually backs the dems, and which republican guvs have legislated against collective bargaining in the last, say 2 years...?

[Mainecoons]

Sorry, you are just ranting now. And you are dodging the fact that Congress, regardless of who is running it, has consistently blocked the needed changes in the postal service to adapt to the much smaller business it has now. Particularly when it comes to getting rid of hardly used post offices and saturday deliveries. This has been going on for DECADES.

I hope you are not just another new leftie here who doesn't do his homework.

[Mainecoons]

Here's a really good discussion of the problem. It touches on all the points I've made and shows very well why Congress is the problem here and has always been so, at least in my lifetime.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2011/09/13/next-washington-debacle-the-broke-postal-service


Since 1971, the postal service has functioned as an "independent establishment" that gets no annual appropriation from Congress, is financed mostly by its own revenue and operates like an ordinary business. But in reality it's a quasi-corporate operation at best, still subject to micromanaging by Congress and prevented by law from making the kinds of decisions necessary to stay healthy and relevant. While still an integral part of daily life for millions of Americans, the postal service is also an outfit that has fallen way behind the times, like Border's bookstores or the Blockbuster video-rental chain—both of which declared bankruptcy recently. And it can't catch up without highly politicized reforms that have to go through the Congressional meat-grinder.

They know what they have to do, but Congress is in the way. And always has been.


The postal service itself has proposed an aggressive reform plan to cut $20 billion per year in costs and start turning a profit, which would entail the end of Saturday delivery, the closure of hundreds of underused post offices, and other steps that would make it more competitive.


The postal service still has the essential mission of delivering mail to every community in America, which private companies like FedEx or UPS would probably charge a lot more for, especially for rural addresses that are hard to reach. But Congress has still micromanaged the postal service through a strict set of rules governing what it can and can't do while fulfilling its mandate of universal mail service. The USPS can't deliver wine or beer, for instance, even though FedEx and UPS can. It can't sell non-postal products, even though it controls an enviable network of retail outlets in central locations in most towns and cities. And even though it's technically allowed to close post offices on its own, without seeking Congressional approval, that's often impossible in reality, since members of Congress routinely pull strings to make sure no town on their turf loses its post office—no matter how unprofitable it may be.


The postal service also has a basic business problem: Its core business—delivering physical products by the mail—is in natural decline, thanks to the Internet and digital communication. Some companies, such as IBM and Apple, have found ways to reinvent themselves as their core product line seemed headed for the dustbin. It usually takes strong leadership, insight into the future and a willingness to take risks. Other companies, like General Motors, Kodak and Sears, clung to a dying business model for way too long, and paid the price. The postal service has some innovative ideas of its own, such as closing many underperforming post offices, opening low-cost kiosks or postal stations inside grocery stores and other retailers, and offering other services at its own retail outlets, to bring in some extra cash. It has also been lobbying hard to end Saturday delivery, which it says will save $3 billion per year.
Private companies make those kinds of changes to their business model all the time—at least the survivors do. Netflix recently hiked its movie-subscription rates, and stuck by them despite vocal complaints from customers. Ford eliminated dozens of unprofitable dealerships and killed its aging Mercury brand. Apple shifted its focus away from computers, toward phones and music players. The postal service, meanwhile, is stuck with a business model that has barely changed in decades, and so far Congress has resisted most of the changes it has sought. It doesn't take an MBA or a Congressional hearing to realize that clinging to mail service in the digital era is a formula for going broke. The Carper plan would provide more flexibility, but opposition in the House of Representatives could water that down or scuttle the reforms completely.

[patrickt]

"He said, "I think most people don't realize, we're 100 percent self-sufficient. We pay our own way." But the postal chief notes the agency is losing $15.9 billion this year."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49992517

Patrick Donahoe, Postal Service head, says "we pay our own way" and they are losing $15,900,000,000 just this year. And, don't laugh, eliminating delivery on Saturday and defaulting on the pension will fix the problem. Mr. Donahoe must think that only Democrat every read what's on NBC.

My ex-wife pays her own way but she did run up $230,000 on her credit card so far this year. But, she pays her own way. Suckers.

[Chris]

There's that pesky "losing $15.9 billion this year" fact liberals want to sweep under the rug.

[patrickt]

Maybe I can help Cigar...

Petition Background

Our goal is to save the U.S. Postal Service from drastic cuts in service. We want the postal service to cease closing mail processing plants. We want the postal service to continue 6 day delivery and we want the postal service to stop closing post offices and cutting retail operating hours. Our goal is to see the dramatic overpayments into retirement accounts to stop and be returned to the postal service. The goal of this petition is also to have congress address the hostile working conditions in the US Postal Service and "Union Busting" tactics.

"Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006” scam legislation created by the (outgoing) Repub congress in 2006 to break the PO and the union.

And yes, It looses money because of that.

(Is posting this petition site a no-no?)

A. No one can help Cigar.
B. It isn't a Republican congress that is the problem. It's an organization with two unions and members of both unions get the best benefits of each.
C. The government's feeble attempts to legislate support for the Post Office is futile. For example, it's illegal to send a package to a P.O. Box via UPS. Why? To force people to use the Post Office. Now, who only has a P.O. Box for an address? The IRS. Those of us who "voluntarily" pay income tax are forced to use the post office to send you return and your check to the IRS.

[nic34]

Can't wait for the $12 FEDEX delivery of a simple B-day card to relatives in rural Gallup, NM. ;-)

[Mainecoons]

More hyperbole. It is clear that the Postal Service can be put on a sound footing. They have a concrete proposal to do so. Congress and your union buddies need to get out of the way.

Otherwise, yes, if you drive it into bankrupcy, you might end up only with FedEx. Will you feel "vindicated" then? Like those bakers union folks who put 18,000 people out of work?

[Chris]

Can't wait for the $12 FEDEX delivery of a simple B-day card to relatives in rural Gallup, NM. ;-)

Email?

[patrickt]

Can't wait for the $12 FEDEX delivery of a simple B-day card to relatives in rural Gallup, NM. ;-)

Since it's your fantasy, you can wait, can't you. The USPS is just another government operation where the union extortionists are threatening the taxpayers.

[nic34]

More hyperbole. It is clear that the Postal Service can be put on a sound footing. They have a concrete proposal to do so. Congress and your union buddies need to get out of the way.

Otherwise, yes, if you drive it into bankrupcy, you might end up only with FedEx. Will you feel "vindicated" then? Like those bakers union folks who put 18,000 people out of work?

No, that would be Hostess Brands, Inc. CEO Gregory F. Rayburn that did that.


When the executive suite points fingers at the union, it’s usually due to incompetent management or possible malfeasance. Claiming the company was $860 million in the red, the New York Southern District Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in White Plains should ask the U.S. attorney to look into what happened to Hostess’ operating capital. Letting one of America’s favorite brands go under compromises a national tradition. Before Judge Drain gave Rayburn the green light to slash salaries and benefits, he should have held upper management accountable for what happened to the company’s cash. Reports of upper management’s 2011 extravagant pay raises and bonuses raise more questions about larceny than whether or not union workers got extravagant wages and benefits. Telling the union “take-it-or-leave-it,” the rank-and-file finally threw in the towel.

Read some more here. There is always more than one side, and as seems usual the most power and money wins.

http://www.examiner.com/article/union-busting-kills-hostess-brands-inc

[Randy]

Wow. It seems like I just heard that statement about the United States of America. Potty mouth makes you sound dirty.

[patrickt]

Email?

At one point the USPS was proposing a tax on all email to support the postal unions.

Nic34: "There is always more than one side, and as seems usual the most power and money wins."

Oh, you forgot the side who ignores the law often wins. Lets ignore the millions that unions use to buy politicians and just consider their immunity to prosecution for arson, vandalism, assault, rape, extortion, and other lesser crimes. It is amazing how unions and other organized crime organizations share the same vocabulary and values. "Never rat out a brother." It's real giggles when the union police officers show up and the picket line where workers have been assaulted and had their cars vandalized and strut around exchanging high-fives with the criminals and calling them brother.

You can whine all you want but the USPS is another bankrupt government operation being driven under by their unions and their accomplices, the politicians. Our wonder President, the Lord and Savior, promised to walk the picket line with the SEIU.

[Chris]

At one point the USPS was proposing a tax on all email to support the postal unions.

USPS should have to deliver by horse and buggy to preserve that too.

[nic34]

Gee nic, why all the hate towards unions, you might ask? :huh: Well I'm going to answer your question with another nic; why Would a slave owner want his slaves to have a voice in their subsistence level working accommodations?

Sorry folks if I dont buy into the line of reasoning that we need to be more "business friendly" with low wages, low benefits, low environmental protections and low taxes on the rich so we can compete with countries like China.

Here's the thing, in countries like China the people don't have a say. When people have a say they say that they want higher wages, benefits, good schools, safe food, environmental protections and the rest of the prosperity that democracy brings to all the people, instead of huge amounts accumulating in the hands of just a few filthy rich people.

Unlike you guys it seems, I like the USA way better than the China way.

Now I gotta go back to work, breaktime is over.... :grin:

[Chris]

Gee nic, why all the hate towards unions, you might ask? :huh: Well I'm going to answer your question with another nic; why Would a slave owner want his slaves to have a voice in their subsistence level working accommodations?

Sorry folks if I dont buy into the line of reasoning that we need to be more "business friendly" with low wages, low benefits, low environmental protections and low taxes on the rich so we can compete with countries like China.

Here's the thing, in countries like China the people don't have a say. When people have a say they say that they want higher wages, benefits, good schools, safe food, environmental protections and the rest of the prosperity that democracy brings to all the people, instead of huge amounts accumulating in the hands of just a few filthy rich people.

Unlike you guys it seems, I like the USA way better than the China way.

Now I gotta go back to work, breaktime is over.... :grin:

The solution is simple, depending on what you seek.

If you want the US to become like China, follow progressive, liberal, socialist ideology.

If you want the US to become free, pursue policies that protect or promote liberty instead.

[Mainecoons]

Bottom line nic is that you threw a BS red herring into this discussion and got shot down. It isn't about unions, it is about an organization that needs to change with its markets and has been prevented from doing so PRIMARILY by the U.S. Congress, both parties, and secondarily by its unions. The primary problem is and remains that first class mail has declined to a small fraction of its former size, with most people using email for that type of service, and FedEx/UPS for hard copy that has to get there very fast.

Next time you take a break, try and get over your class hatred problem and approach this topic from a business point of view. As in, you wouldn't run a business this way (because it would go broke just as the post office is), so don't ask the rest of us to do so and to pick up all the losses therefrom.

[Mainecoons]

And I might add, the Teamsters union knows exactly who killed all those jobs at Hostess. In fact, everyone knows but nic.

:grin:

[nic34]

Oh you're too clever maine, you got me. I hate dem richy folk der.

I better not criticize why management should get million $ bonuses for driving a company into the ground, or the congress for putting a mandate on the USPS that it does not require for ANY OTHER business. Yeah, sound BIDNESS... republican style. Ya got me...

[Mainecoons]

The management sucks but that is not what killed this company. What killed this company was too high labor costs, declining demand for product. Sorta reminds you of that old post office.

It is clear you are just another ignorant lefty when it comes to business. The CEO couldn't kill it on his own, the judge would have dumped him. The numbers don't work and the bakers declined to make them work. Anything else is just your BS. Like you ignorance about the post office.