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View Full Version : tPF Partisanship: America's Original Sin



Green Arrow
10-29-2017, 09:22 PM
We've got two active threads right now, one all about how liberals are destroying the country and one all about how conservatives are destroying the country. Both of these threads are examples of what is REALLY destroying the country: partisanship, particularly blind partisanship. What we are seeing now in 2017 America is the fulfillment of George Washington's prophecy: the creation of political parties and factions has led to the abolition of national unity and the slow erosion of America.

Washington said the following in his Farewell Address:


I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

Washington gave us this warning, and it went unheeded. His successors, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, created the rival Democratic-Republican and Federalist parties. This invention of political parties was America's original sin, the sin that led to all others. The acrimony between the parties of Jefferson and Adams nearly tore our country apart in those early days, and ultimately that division did cause the unity of the nation to fall to pieces with the Civil War. Through acts of evil and barbarity the union was stitched back together, but the underlying problems remained untouched. The Spirit of Party went into a prolonged hibernation, but in the last few decades it has once again risen to prominence, and once again threatens to tear this nation apart.

It is our responsibility to do what is right, and put aside this needless division. I don't believe in the hyperbolic claims made by others. I don't believe liberals or conservatives are destroying this country. I believe some of their policies certainly damage it, but not destroy it. What destroys us is our divisions. Easy as it is to blame the other side for this division, the responsibility is on each of us to say enough is enough.

Conservatives, liberals can't force you to do anything. You alone make the choice how you will react. React in force against division.

Liberals, conservatives can't force you to do anything. You alone make the choice how you will react. React in force against division.

If you fail to put aside the petty divisions, you are just as much at fault for what happens as anyone on the other side who also fails to throw down their divisive mindsets. Don't be a part of the problem. Become part of the solution.

We can be better. We just have to be willing.

Safety
10-29-2017, 09:24 PM
Great job.

jimmyz
10-29-2017, 10:30 PM
We've got two active threads right now, one all about how liberals are destroying the country and one all about how conservatives are destroying the country. Both of these threads are examples of what is REALLY destroying the country: partisanship, particularly blind partisanship. What we are seeing now in 2017 America is the fulfillment of George Washington's prophecy: the creation of political parties and factions has led to the abolition of national unity and the slow erosion of America.

Washington said the following in his Farewell Address:



Washington gave us this warning, and it went unheeded. His successors, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, created the rival Democratic-Republican and Federalist parties. This invention of political parties was America's original sin, the sin that led to all others. The acrimony between the parties of Jefferson and Adams nearly tore our country apart in those early days, and ultimately that division did cause the unity of the nation to fall to pieces with the Civil War. Through acts of evil and barbarity the union was stitched back together, but the underlying problems remained untouched. The Spirit of Party went into a prolonged hibernation, but in the last few decades it has once again risen to prominence, and once again threatens to tear this nation apart.

It is our responsibility to do what is right, and put aside this needless division. I don't believe in the hyperbolic claims made by others. I don't believe liberals or conservatives are destroying this country. I believe some of their policies certainly damage it, but not destroy it. What destroys us is our divisions. Easy as it is to blame the other side for this division, the responsibility is on each of us to say enough is enough.

Conservatives, liberals can't force you to do anything. You alone make the choice how you will react. React in force against division.

Liberals, conservatives can't force you to do anything. You alone make the choice how you will react. React in force against division.

If you fail to put aside the petty divisions, you are just as much at fault for what happens as anyone on the other side who also fails to throw down their divisive mindsets. Don't be a part of the problem. Become part of the solution.

We can be better. We just have to be willing.
You underestimate moderates and independents and their evolving views that translate to votes. We are the electorate needing recruited to whatever cause and movement.

Kacper
10-29-2017, 10:55 PM
Lack of "partisanship" is a far greater threat to the republic than "partisanship".

Common
10-30-2017, 03:00 AM
This is 100% true but its happened before, during the vietnam war and it might have happened prior to that.

This divide is far worse because its about major change to most everything. Vietnam was about one thing.

Jimmy made a major point, the two party participation is not the major chunk of america. Independents and moderates and NPAs make up much of america.

Green Arrow
10-30-2017, 06:33 AM
Lack of "partisanship" is a far greater threat to the republic than "partisanship".

Defend your claim.

donttread
10-30-2017, 06:37 AM
We've got two active threads right now, one all about how liberals are destroying the country and one all about how conservatives are destroying the country. Both of these threads are examples of what is REALLY destroying the country: partisanship, particularly blind partisanship. What we are seeing now in 2017 America is the fulfillment of George Washington's prophecy: the creation of political parties and factions has led to the abolition of national unity and the slow erosion of America.

Washington said the following in his Farewell Address:



Washington gave us this warning, and it went unheeded. His successors, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, created the rival Democratic-Republican and Federalist parties. This invention of political parties was America's original sin, the sin that led to all others. The acrimony between the parties of Jefferson and Adams nearly tore our country apart in those early days, and ultimately that division did cause the unity of the nation to fall to pieces with the Civil War. Through acts of evil and barbarity the union was stitched back together, but the underlying problems remained untouched. The Spirit of Party went into a prolonged hibernation, but in the last few decades it has once again risen to prominence, and once again threatens to tear this nation apart.

It is our responsibility to do what is right, and put aside this needless division. I don't believe in the hyperbolic claims made by others. I don't believe liberals or conservatives are destroying this country. I believe some of their policies certainly damage it, but not destroy it. What destroys us is our divisions. Easy as it is to blame the other side for this division, the responsibility is on each of us to say enough is enough.

Conservatives, liberals can't force you to do anything. You alone make the choice how you will react. React in force against division.

Liberals, conservatives can't force you to do anything. You alone make the choice how you will react. React in force against division.

If you fail to put aside the petty divisions, you are just as much at fault for what happens as anyone on the other side who also fails to throw down their divisive mindsets. Don't be a part of the problem. Become part of the solution.

We can be better. We just have to be willing.

But, but , but to look at candidates and issues individually takes too much time away from.... mindlessly playing with a smart phone. Much easier to have one of two opposing groups ram your opinions down your throat and then once elected do pretty much the same shit the other group would do anyway.
We were told the price of freedom was "eternal vigllance" and somewhere along the way we quit making the payments.

Kacper
10-30-2017, 06:52 AM
Defend your claim.

Nobody has refuted it.

Green Arrow
10-30-2017, 08:04 AM
Nobody has refuted it.

There’s nothing to refute, you did nothing to support it.

Kacper
10-30-2017, 08:21 AM
There’s nothing to refute, you did nothing to support it.

You haven't refuted the veracity of the statement. The USA PATRIOT ACT and the Financial Services Modernization Act that destroyed our economy were what happened when people stop being partisan. When was the last time there was a congressional election with no opposition? Partisanship is what drives democracy and the lack of it, usually is disaster.

Green Arrow
10-30-2017, 10:06 AM
You haven't refuted the veracity of the statement. The USA PATRIOT ACT and the Financial Services Modernization Act that destroyed our economy were what happened when people stop being partisan. When was the last time there was a congressional election with no opposition? Partisanship is what drives democracy and the lack of it, usually is disaster.

Partisanship doesn’t drive democracy. It drives chaos and the ultimate end of democracy. Our democracy functioned perfectly during the non-partisan Washington years. In the Adams administration that directly followed, the administration that began the partisan era, partisanship enabled Adams to pass the original PATRIOT Act, the Alien and Sedition Acts, where members of Adams’ opposition feared to oppose Adams and his Federalists even on the floor of Congress lest they be arrested and tried. That’s not democracy.

Legislation like the PATRIOT Act can come about with or without partisanship, just as it came with partisanship in the Adams years.

Chris
10-30-2017, 10:40 AM
Partisan really has to do with parties not principles as there are conservative Democrats (Blue Dogs) and liberal Republicans (RINOs).

Chris
10-30-2017, 10:41 AM
I'll add that the thread "Conservatives Are Destroying America" is about Trump who always has been liberal.

Safety
10-30-2017, 11:30 AM
No, partisanship does not have to follow parties, for it can apply to ideologies. One can be a conservative and align themself with the conservative ideology regardless of what the republican party does. Just like one can be liberal and hold bigotry on anything that isn't considered liberal regardless of what the democratic party does.

One good example would be the poster above that will insert himself into any thread that is negative towards a conservative and poo-poo on any thread that holds liberals in a positive light, but will claim tu quoque on anyone that points it out.

Green Arrow
10-30-2017, 11:45 AM
No, partisanship does not have to follow parties, for it can apply to ideologies. One can be a conservative and align themself with the conservative ideology regardless of what the republican party does. Just like one can be liberal and hold bigotry on anything that isn't considered liberal regardless of what the democratic party does.

One good example would be the poster above that will insert himself into any thread that is negative towards a conservative and poo-poo on any thread that holds liberals in a positive light, but will claim tu quoque on anyone that points it out.

Merriam-Webster says a partisan is someone who is “a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person.”

Chris
10-30-2017, 11:52 AM
Merriam-Webster says a partisan is someone who is “a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person.”

Typically in the US partisan, as in partisan divide, refers to either Congress or campaigns or to how people feel about the two parties. For example:

Key takeaways on Americans’ growing partisan divide over political values (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/05/takeaways-on-americans-growing-partisan-divide-over-political-values/)


For more than two decades, partisan polarization has been a powerful force in American politics. Today, the divide between Republicans and Democrats on fundamental values relating to the role of government, the environment, race, immigration and other issues dwarfs demographic, religious and education differences, according to surveys conducted by Pew Research Center in June and July.

What is striking is how little common ground there is among partisans today. Even on issues on which Republicans and Democrats have moved in the same direction – for example, growing numbers in both parties say homosexuality should be accepted rather than discouraged – the partisan differences are wider today than in the past.

Here are eight takeaways from the surveys:

1 Across 10 political values Pew Research Center has tracked since 1994, there is now an average 36-percentage-point gap between Republicans and Republican-leaning independents and Democrats and Democratic leaners. In 1994, it was only 15 points. The partisan gap is much larger than the differences between the opinions of blacks and whites, men and women and other groups in society.

...

I don't want to get into a semantic argument so go ahead.