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View Full Version : Warning: Town Hall - Monday, Nov 13



Adelaide
11-10-2017, 12:20 PM
A town hall will be run by the Advisors on Monday, November 13th. Please think about any input you might have and we will open this thread for discussion on that date. This is a heads-up to give members the time to think about any concerns or comments.

Thanks.

Adelaide
11-13-2017, 12:26 PM
Town hall is now open.

Cletus
11-13-2017, 01:59 PM
A question for those of you who have access to ask the mods or admin... Why don't they respond when asked a question per established procedure when they screw up and make a bad call, sometimes violating their own rules?

Instead of offering an explanation, they hide and hope the issue will go away.

Maybe if you guys ask, they will actually answer. I have tried discussing the issue with them off the open forum to no avail.

Green Arrow
11-13-2017, 02:39 PM
A question for those of you who have access to ask the mods or admin... Why don't they respond when asked a question per established procedure when they screw up and make a bad call, sometimes violating their own rules?

Instead of offering an explanation, they hide and hope the issue will go away.

Maybe if you guys ask, they will actually answer. I have tried discussing the issue with them off the open forum to no avail.

I'll take it to them. In the meantime, off the top of my head I can tell you part of any delay is the fact that there are only four of them and they all four lead very full lives outside of this forum.

Kacper
11-13-2017, 03:17 PM
Is there a way to get quote notifications without getting a private message here? Most sites it is just a drop down but it seems contrived here unless I have my setting wrong.

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 03:20 PM
A question for those of you who have access to ask the mods or admin... Why don't they respond when asked a question per established procedure when they screw up and make a bad call, sometimes violating their own rules?

Instead of offering an explanation, they hide and hope the issue will go away.

Maybe if you guys ask, they will actually answer. I have tried discussing the issue with them off the open forum to no avail.
Honestly, if the MODS did what you asked and started enforcing things more efficiently, you'd be one of the first members to fall under the ax, since you cannot disagree without insulting other members. So I'd be careful what you wish for.

Green Arrow
11-13-2017, 03:32 PM
Is there a way to get quote notifications without getting a private message here? Most sites it is just a drop down but it seems contrived here unless I have my setting wrong.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s possible. But let me do some digging and I’ll get back to you.

Green Arrow
11-13-2017, 03:32 PM
Honestly, if the MODS did what you asked and started enforcing things more efficiently, you'd be one of the first members to fall under the ax, since you cannot disagree without insulting other members. So I'd be careful what you wish for.
Please let’s not turn this into a bicker-fest.

gamewell45
11-13-2017, 03:34 PM
Honestly, if the MODS did what you asked and started enforcing things more efficiently, you'd be one of the first members to fall under the ax, since you cannot disagree without insulting other members. So I'd be careful what you wish for.

I've said this before and I'll say it again; it's OK to disagree on various topics discussed in here, just don't make it personal as much as frustrating as it may be to you when disagreeing. If you feel that your getting frustrated, simply move to another thread or take a break; it's a simple as that. The main idea here is to have constructive debate within reason and not to fire off invective's at one another.

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 03:48 PM
Over the past few days, I tried to avoiding bickering and the like. I told myself I would only concentrate on substantive and topical commentary. And while I was doing this, I noticed that several threads contained mostly pointless bickering about hypocrisy and other forms of personal disputes. I found myself scrolling past entire pages of content that had nothing to do with the actual thread topic. I imagine most people who show up here, who have no investment or interest in past grudges, do the same thing. This is what tPF has become. Nowhere was this more apparent to me than in a Veterans Day thread where I was chided, berated, and insulted simply for posting my political opinion. A political forum that doesn't focus primarily on discussing politics is unlikely to succeed in the long run.

jimmyz
11-13-2017, 04:03 PM
Is there a way to get quote notifications without getting a private message here? Most sites it is just a drop down but it seems contrived here unless I have my setting wrong.

I second that request. Right now I have to go to my profile and look through recent posts. If there is some easier way I'm all for it. TYIA

Thom Paine
11-13-2017, 05:08 PM
A point to ponder for the Powers that be.

I wonder about the possibility of increased forum participation if there was not incessant personal bickering in nearly every thread.

i have no suggestions nor answers; only an observation from the high cheap seats of the arena.

have a terrific day, y'all.

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 05:16 PM
A point to ponder for the Powers that be.

I wonder about the possibility of increased forum participation if there was not incessant personal bickering in nearly every thread.

i have no suggestions nor answers; only an observation from the high cheap seats of the arena.

have a terrific day, y'all.

This presents a conundrum. Because while it is undeniably true that incessant personal bickering has become the norm on this forum, the only way to deal with it is to assign blame and that would entail a great deal of bickering in and of itself. So instead of just having it out and determining, once and for all, who is responsible for this state of affairs, the forum will continue limping along as it labors under the burden of false equanimity.

jimmyz
11-13-2017, 05:35 PM
If there is a way to stop political and personal bickering it hasn't been invented yet. The POTUS bickers via Twitter with sitting US Senators and heads of foreign states. Hell, I bet the letters between Jefferson and Adams were as much or more caustic. It just took a few days between sending and receiving by couriers on horseback.

Agent Zero
11-13-2017, 05:51 PM
Can we get clarification as to the expected demeanor of Advisors? Are they allowed to blatantly insult other posters without recourse?

Thom Paine
11-13-2017, 05:52 PM
This presents a conundrum. Because while it is undeniably true that incessant personal bickering has become the norm on this forum, the only way to deal with it is to assign blame and that would entail a great deal of bickering in and of itself. So instead of just having it out and determining, once and for all, who is responsible for this state of affairs, the forum will continue limping along as it labors under the burden of false equanimity.

You caught me before returning to my seat.
You make a good point which spurs a thought.
Might it be advantageous to encourage individuals to look toward themselves to find responsibility and determine to end the bickering; without casting blame.

A simple beginning could be found with not ending a reasonable point with a final "gotcha" and personally directed aspersion.
it could be a start.

Thank you for your response; I now beg your leave in order to return to my seat.

Make it a great day!

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 05:56 PM
Can we get clarification as to the expected demeanor of Advisors? Are they allowed to blatantly insult other posters without recourse?
:rofl:

jimmyz
11-13-2017, 06:10 PM
Can we get clarification as to the expected demeanor of Advisors? Are they allowed to blatantly insult other posters without recourse?

The Advisors are regular members like you and me. Well, I am somewhat irregular in my demeanor admittedly.

Why should Advisors walk on water. You and I sure don't.

Crepitus
11-13-2017, 06:29 PM
Can we get clarification as to the expected demeanor of Advisors? Are they allowed to blatantly insult other posters without recourse?

Advisors are subject to the same rules and moderation you are. If you feel they are breaking them report it.

Dr. Who
11-13-2017, 07:15 PM
Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s possible. But let me do some digging and I’ll get back to you.

You can disable PMs. However there is no way to distinuish between the two except by the symbol next to the message. PMs show up as open envelopes.

resister
11-13-2017, 07:26 PM
Can we get clarification as to the expected demeanor of Advisors? Are they allowed to blatantly insult other posters without recourse?
Or posters, like you? Should you be free, to attack posters, and spread your venom?

Safety
11-13-2017, 08:24 PM
Someone said something about bickering...

Dr. Who
11-13-2017, 09:07 PM
Let me just remind members that this thread is for expressing concerns, not for arguing about those concerns. Members are entitled to have concerns about which other members do not agree.

If there is something that you think that we could be doing better or improvements to the forum that you would like to see, this is the time to voice them.

resister
11-13-2017, 09:19 PM
Let me just remind members that this thread is for expressing concerns, not for arguing about those concerns. Members are entitled to have concerns about which other members do not agree.

If there is something that you think that we could be doing better or improvements to the forum that you would like to see, this is the time to voice them.

Sure, I do! Members not allowed to launch personal attacks with impunity! That would go leaps and bounds, don't ya think?

Refugee
11-13-2017, 10:16 PM
21041



There has always been a lot of bickering (goddammit, it’s America :) ) and always will be. My offering for what it’s worth, would be for the mods to stop being so serious at trying to make it perfect - it isn’t going to happen. Requesting members to behave is taking wishful thinking to the limits of absurdity, it’s why forums have moderators? For the rest of we downtrodden masses; for all it’s ups and downs, it if wasn’t for the clueless and spaced out, it wouldn’t provide half the entertainment it does now.

I’m doing my bit by considering getting together with Brett Nortje and doing a webinar to see if we can’t conjure up some magic that allowsdelinquents to ban themselves and take some pressure off the mods.

Cthulhu
11-13-2017, 10:17 PM
Action/feature request:

Purging off topic/trolling/faggotry on display once the offender has been dealt with. Move the sabotage posts to the flame or thread or simply delete them so they cannot be responded to on purpose or via accident (I've done that before).

This way the topic has a chance to recover itself despite seemingly coordinates attempts to derail the thread instantly.

Alternatively, TB the offenders, and then clone the thread in the hole where the stupids can really showcase their wits for all to see. Then clean the original thread.

Also banning those on the red list.

They need to go, they know who they are, they tow the line too often only too dial back when caught red handed - even then only temporarily. We don't need people that only behave when slapped on the wrist. Occasional pot stirring is one thing, but having to be reminded to not stir the pot frequently is a problem. This transcends party lines as both sides have their offenders.

/Thoughts.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 10:21 PM
tPF is basically ruined at this point and there is no saving it. The liberal clique saw to that.

KathyS
11-13-2017, 10:55 PM
As usual, I'm late to the party however, I'm glad to see this thread isn't closed.

I agree with those that say the insults and bickering seem to be on the rise, and I hate to see it happen here. I truly believe that most of us share a love of our country even though we may disagree on the direction we would like to see it go in the future.
IMO, the constant trend of darn near each and every thread to evolve into pages of barbs and insults has often reduced my participation into simply "thanking" a post and moving on.
Every single person on this forum has a right to express their opinion on political issues, but I wish the personal jabs would just stop.
Seriously.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Thanks for offering a "townhall" thread- it's more than many other forums are willing to do for it's members. :-)

Cthulhu
11-13-2017, 10:57 PM
tPF is basically ruined at this point and there is no saving it. The liberal clique saw to that.Dude, your kinda part of the problem. Just saying.

I know full well there are other, certainly guiltier parties at large, but to pretend your hands have no dirt on them is just nutty.

I've recommended a wise course of action for all to see. Now I recommend the most practical. Unfortunately, that means cutting some good tissue to get rid of the bad.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Safety
11-13-2017, 11:03 PM
Dude, your kinda part of the problem. Just saying.

I know full well there are other, certainly guiltier parties at large, but to pretend your hands have no dirt on them is just nutty.

I've recommended a wise course of action for all to see. Now I recommend the most practical. Unfortunately, that means cutting some good tissue to get rid of the bad.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Triage.

Cthulhu
11-13-2017, 11:15 PM
Triage.Yeah... About that...
Dude, your kinda part of the problem. Just saying.

I know full well there are other, certainly guiltier parties at large, but to pretend your hands have no dirt on them is just nutty.

I've recommended a wise course of action for all to see. Now I recommend the most practical. Unfortunately, that means cutting some good tissue to get rid of the bad.

Sent from my evil cell phone.Eth isn't the only one.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 11:18 PM
Dude, your kinda part of the problem. Just saying.

I know full well there are other, certainly guiltier parties at large, but to pretend your hands have no dirt on them is just nutty.

I've recommended a wise course of action for all to see. Now I recommend the most practical. Unfortunately, that means cutting some good tissue to get rid of the bad.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

If by "part of the problem", you mean "refuses to remain silent in the face of insanity", then sure

Cthulhu
11-13-2017, 11:23 PM
If by "part of the problem", you mean "refuses to remain silent in the face of insanity", then sureCall it whatever you want at this point.

Neither side has the favored moral high ground.

What it is for sure is disruptive to the forums intended purpose.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

resister
11-13-2017, 11:25 PM
Call it whatever you want at this point.

Neither side has the favored moral high ground.

What it is for sure is disprove to the forums intended purpose.

Sent from my evil cell phone.
Sounds good, if you are not a frequent, target of TPF hate.

Safety
11-13-2017, 11:26 PM
Yeah... About that...Eth isn't the only one.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

I totally understand that he isn't the only one, I have done my part in to participate in the struggle also. The difference that I see is that I am aware of my actions, but I operate on a different mission that is geared towards the realization that most of the discourse experienced here is due to some not being receptive to opposing ideologies. There can not be a kumbaya moment on any political forum where one side of the political spectrum is given carte blanche reign and the other side is capitulated.

resister
11-13-2017, 11:27 PM
I totally understand that he isn't the only one, I have done my part in to participate in the struggle also. The difference that I see is that I am aware of my actions, but I operate on a different mission that is geared towards the realization that most of the discourse experienced here is due to some not being receptive to opposing ideologies. There can not be a kumbaya moment on any political forum where one side of the political spectrum is given carte blanche reign and the other side is capitulated.Mega LOL:rollseyes:

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 11:54 PM
Neither side has the favored moral high ground.

That is where you are wrong.

Ethereal
11-13-2017, 11:55 PM
I totally understand that he isn't the only one, I have done my part in to participate in the struggle also. The difference that I see is that I am aware of my actions, but I operate on a different mission that is geared towards the realization that most of the discourse experienced here is due to some not being receptive to opposing ideologies. There can not be a kumbaya moment on any political forum where one side of the political spectrum is given carte blanche reign and the other side is capitulated.
This is just delusional.

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 12:13 AM
Advisors are subject to the same rules and moderation you are. If you feel they are breaking them report it.
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.

Ethereal
11-14-2017, 12:17 AM
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.
Probably because they weren't really insults and you're just lying.

resister
11-14-2017, 12:23 AM
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.
Care to give your, distorted version of your synopsis of my life history, again?



























​Hateful troll

jimmyz
11-14-2017, 12:27 AM
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.

I have never reported a tPF member once. I always figure I can rebut nicely or acerbically as needed myself without having a third party arbitrate. Waiting for a ruling takes all of the momentum out of the back and forth. A time waster for sure and juvenile to tattle to some authority that may or may not be at their duty station.

Cthulhu
11-14-2017, 12:42 AM
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.See the fable of the boy who cried wolf. Not saying it's you, but it might be worth a read.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
11-14-2017, 12:43 AM
That is where you are wrong.Your welcome to view it that way.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Common
11-14-2017, 01:46 AM
When you are hating on each other in the hole, making statements that cant be taken back, the animosity comes upstairs. You simply cant turn off a never ending insult fest downstairs and then miraculously be civil to each other upstairs. Even if you can control yourself, you inadvertently nag at the other person by innuendo.

Some might want to try taking an approach of ignoring those that want to go down to the hole to get their jollys and just let them talk to themselves.

To me theres a huge difference between a political pissing contest upstairs with the unstoppable force banging heads with the unmoveable rock and the HOLE which sole purpose is to shred others dignity and where some really mean things have been said. It doesnt take any amount of testicular fortitude to insult and degrade people from behind a screen.

This is a political forum, if someone is left they are not obligated to post articles that makes the right happy. The same with the right they are not going to post articles just for the lefts entertainment

Refugee
11-14-2017, 02:35 AM
When you are hating on each other in the hole, making statements that cant be taken back, the animosity comes upstairs. You simply cant turn off a never ending insult fest downstairs and then miraculously be civil to each other upstairs. Even if you can control yourself, you inadvertently nag at the other person by innuendo. Some might want to try taking an approach of ignoring those that want to go down to the hole to get their jollys and just let them talk to themselves. To me theres a huge difference between a political pissing contest upstairs with the unstoppable force banging heads with the unmoveable rock and the HOLE which sole purpose is to shred others dignity and where some really mean things have been said. It doesnt take any amount of testicular fortitude to insult and degrade people from behind a screen.
This is a political forum, if someone is left they are not obligated to post articles that makes the right happy. The same with the right they are not going to post articles just for the lefts entertainment


Common, if this were a serious political forum, there wouldn’t be more than half a dozen on it. Let’s be honest, the vast majority can’t even articulate what it is they believe in, never mind debate it. This forum, like others, generally reveals the same animosity and behaviour as one would find in real life and it’s why the constant bickering round about the third page of any thread. Treat it as such and it becomes what it is – entertainment and a break form doing other stuff that matters.
The hole is what it is and for me personally, occasionally a safe space from the PC upstairs.

Crepitus
11-14-2017, 06:04 AM
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.

Sometimes action is taken, but since there is no notification for the reporter you just don't see it. Also your behavior in the reported thread matters as well. My understanding is if you fire back in kind that is taken into consideration.

Chris
11-14-2017, 08:28 AM
Action/feature request:

Purging off topic/trolling/faggotry on display once the offender has been dealt with. Move the sabotage posts to the flame or thread or simply delete them so they cannot be responded to on purpose or via accident (I've done that before).

This way the topic has a chance to recover itself despite seemingly coordinates attempts to derail the thread instantly.

Alternatively, TB the offenders, and then clone the thread in the hole where the stupids can really showcase their wits for all to see. Then clean the original thread.

Also banning those on the red list.

They need to go, they know who they are, they tow the line too often only too dial back when caught red handed - even then only temporarily. We don't need people that only behave when slapped on the wrist. Occasional pot stirring is one thing, but having to be reminded to not stir the pot frequently is a problem. This transcends party lines as both sides have their offenders.

/Thoughts.

Sent from my evil cell phone.


Removing off topic and other crap is supposed to happen On the Serious Side.

TBing is supposed to happen On the Serious Side.

IOW, what you suggest is a great idea and was adopted.

What, you don't see it enforced?

Chris
11-14-2017, 08:30 AM
Sometimes action is taken, but since there is no notification for the reporter you just don't see it. Also your behavior in the reported thread matters as well. My understanding is if you fire back in kind that is taken into consideration.


Then why not notify the one who reported? All it takes is a brief PM. Why not notify the reporter when no action is taken? Again, just a PM. The feedback would let members know what the mods consider actionable rule violations. In the long run it would save mods time because they'd get less frivolous posts.

resister
11-14-2017, 08:35 AM
Sometimes action is taken, but since there is no notification for the reporter you just don't see it. Also your behavior in the reported thread matters as well. My understanding is if you fire back in kind that is taken into consideration.
If both parties are guilty, punish both. Ignoring the reporter because they fire back and taking no action, just encourages it to escalate and IMO is one of the biggest causes of threads turning into insult fest.

Chris
11-14-2017, 08:39 AM
A question for those of you who have access to ask the mods or admin... Why don't they respond when asked a question per established procedure when they screw up and make a bad call, sometimes violating their own rules?

Instead of offering an explanation, they hide and hope the issue will go away.

Maybe if you guys ask, they will actually answer. I have tried discussing the issue with them off the open forum to no avail.


This, too, is supposed to be happening. If you are moderated, you have a right to Report or PM a challenge to it, and you should get a response. If you (generic) are being a jerk about it, you may not deserve a response, but if you're sincere, you should. And the response should be equallt sincere, and reasonable. Maybe you didn't undertand a rule, maybe you didn't see something, but, equally, maybe you're right and the mods misread your post.

Anyway, this is supposed to be happening.

hanger4
11-14-2017, 08:45 AM
Thanks. I have reported one advisor for insults. Several times. No action was taken.

Did you PM the supposed offending advisor and try to work things through ?? Did you insult the supposed advisor first or retaliate or neither ??

Cthulhu
11-14-2017, 10:12 AM
Removing off topic and other crap is supposed to happen On the Serious Side.

TBing is supposed to happen On the Serious Side.

IOW, what you suggest is a great idea and was adopted.

What, you don't see it enforced?Truth be told, my phone doesn't distinguish between serious side or otherwise.

So I may not see it occurring. If it is, I react that part of my post.

But keep the part about banning specific problem posters who continually tow the line everywhere they can. We have no need for such people. Ask RavensFan for a detailed list if you like.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

jimmyz
11-14-2017, 10:22 AM
Common, if this were a serious political forum, there wouldnít be more than half a dozen on it. Letís be honest, the vast majority canít even articulate what it is they believe in, never mind debate it. This forum, like others, generally reveals the same animosity and behaviour as one would find in real life and itís why the constant bickering round about the third page of any thread. Treat it as such and it becomes what it is Ė entertainment and a break form doing other stuff that matters.
The hole is what it is and for me personally, occasionally a safe space from the PC upstairs.

A good take away IMO.

resister
11-14-2017, 10:26 AM
If both parties are guilty, punish both. Ignoring the reporter because they fire back and taking no action, just encourages it to escalate and IMO is one of the biggest causes of threads turning into insult fest.
Am I the only one that's see's this? Reports are acted on, or not, based on the reporters, behavior? This encourages, retaliation and escalation, people just say "whats the use" ? And swing back. On the vicious cycle, goes.

Chris
11-14-2017, 10:26 AM
Truth be told, my phone doesn't distinguish between serious side or otherwise.

So I may not see it occurring. If it is, I react that part of my post.

But keep the part about banning specific problem posters who continually tow the line everywhere they can. We have no need for such people. Ask RavensFan for a detailed list if you like.

Sent from my evil cell phone.


It's part of the forum structure, it organizes forum ares:

https://i.snag.gy/v6J3PU.jpg

But it's not readily apparent otherwise where you are.

I'm just saying it's supposed to be mainted in the fashion you propose.


I tend not to get into the ban thing but hear what you're saying.

Thom Paine
11-14-2017, 11:28 AM
Am I the only one that's see's this? Reports are acted on, or not, based on the reporters, behavior? This encourages, retaliation and escalation, people just say "whats the use" ? And swing back. On the vicious cycle, goes.


From the Cheap Seats:
considering your comment, I agree; save for one word. That word being "AND".
Consider: "what's the use, WHY swing back"; because, as you say, the vicious cycle goes on.
It takes practice; it proves worthwhile to withstand the tests you will face by not "swinging back". Have no doubt, such resolve will be tested.
You and those who do not take the bait will succeed at days end. There is a comfortable feeling to be had by NOT "swinging back".
Maybe, TPF will better succeed with a larger audience if more persons Do Not "swing back".

Back to the Cheap Seats for me.

Celebrate the day, Resister!

Bethere
11-14-2017, 12:33 PM
As I look at the previous 57 posts I am left to wonder. Is this really why we have town halls?

If so, why bother?

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 12:34 PM
As I look at the previous 57 posts I am left to wonder. Is this really why we have town halls?

If so, why bother?
What, specifically, do you object to?

Chris
11-14-2017, 12:38 PM
#58 :p

Bethere
11-14-2017, 12:38 PM
What, specifically, do you object to?
Perpetual butt hurt and the ongoing right wing campaign to marginalize anyone who might disagree.

Bethere
11-14-2017, 12:41 PM
#58 :p

Thanks for illustrating my point.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 01:13 PM
Perpetual butt hurt and the ongoing right wing campaign to marginalize anyone who might disagree.

I don’t see that here.

Crepitus
11-14-2017, 01:25 PM
Then why not notify the one who reported? All it takes is a brief PM. Why not notify the reporter when no action is taken? Again, just a PM. The feedback would let members know what the mods consider actionable rule violations. In the long run it would save mods time because they'd get less frivolous posts.

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying they don't. I'd be fine with them doing it.

Chris
11-14-2017, 01:35 PM
I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying they don't. I'd be fine with them doing it.

Right, it's not done, but it might be a good idea.

Common
11-14-2017, 01:55 PM
As I look at the previous 57 posts I am left to wonder. Is this really why we have town halls?

If so, why bother?


Town halls arent tailored for any individual to like them, if you dont think theres a purpose to them, no problem, there is no requirement you participate

Common
11-14-2017, 01:57 PM
Perpetual butt hurt and the ongoing right wing campaign to marginalize anyone who might disagree.
Again you dont have to participate in townhalls or the forum if you are that unhappy.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 03:39 PM
You wouldn't. I'll let you four advisors pretend we're still here.

There’s twelve of us, actually. Well...eleven, now.

barb012
11-14-2017, 03:52 PM
I was on this website for a long time but did not participate again until recently. The personal insults and attacks on responses was not this bad in the past. If you desire more people to join your forum, a delete function for responses of personal insults and attacks on members by moderators to reduce this type of behavior. The focus of the debate is on the contents shared and it should not be on the messenger.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 04:07 PM
I was on this website for a long time but did not participate again until recently. The personal insults and attacks on responses was not this bad in the past. If you desire more people to join your forum, a delete function for responses of personal insults and attacks on members by moderators to reduce this type of behavior. The focus of the debate is on the contents shared and it should not be on the messenger.


Contemporary politics is a bit like comparing fiction to non-fiction. On the one hand youíve got those trying to discuss politics and on the other, those engaged in fantasies. Weíve recently had the great outpourings on whether the Russians or Facebook were responsible for the election of a National Socialist in America. It doesnít get any more weird than that. So what youíve seeing at the moment is the transition from fantasy to fact and itís not going down well and the same opposite when Obama was elected. Eventually and hopefully it will all settle down. :)

Chris
11-14-2017, 04:24 PM
I was on this website for a long time but did not participate again until recently. The personal insults and attacks on responses was not this bad in the past. If you desire more people to join your forum, a delete function for responses of personal insults and attacks on members by moderators to reduce this type of behavior. The focus of the debate is on the contents shared and it should not be on the messenger.


I think you're probably right because there are more and more threads I avoid for that reason. Moderation should be swift and severe.

But what precisely constitutes talking about members and what messages seems to confuse a great many. Some just cannot see the difference.

We have rules, we have mods as a team who interpret and apply the rules, what we lack, I think, is good communication between mods and members, good feedback on reports, better response to challenges to mod actions. All that would help the membership better understand what's expected of them. --Not saying it's bed, just that it could improve and the forum improve thereby.

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 05:00 PM
I was on this website for a long time but did not participate again until recently. The personal insults and attacks on responses was not this bad in the past. If you desire more people to join your forum, a delete function for responses of personal insults and attacks on members by moderators to reduce this type of behavior. The focus of the debate is on the contents shared and it should not be on the messenger.

I joined almost two years ago I think and didn't like what I saw. Came back by invitation earlier this year intending to discuss politics and rise above the trolling. Instead, I was attacked within three posts of my introductory one.

I continued to try to stay above the fray for several months. But after continued attacks (and refusal by mods to do anything), I decided wtf. Regardless, I've only had one infraction and stayed out of the Hole.

IMO, this whole advisor thing is bullshit. There's two "advisors" who should have been permabanned long ago. There's another two or three forum members who also do nothing but troll and flame and escape untouched. And no forum, other than Stormfront, needs blatant racists.

I'm heading out of the country for a few days. I honestly don't know if it's worth it to come back, but we'll see.

Common
11-14-2017, 05:04 PM
I joined almost two years ago I think and didn't like what I saw. Came back by invitation earlier this year intending to discuss politics and rise above the trolling. Instead, I was attacked within three posts of my introductory one.

I continued to try to stay above the fray for several months. But after continued attacks (and refusal by mods to do anything), I decided wtf. Regardless, I've only had one infraction and stayed out of the Hole.

IMO, this whole advisor thing is bullshit. There's two "advisors" who should have been permabanned long ago. There's another two or three forum members who also do nothing but troll and flame and escape untouched. And no forum, other than Stormfront, needs blatant racists.

I'm heading out of the country for a few days. I honestly don't know if it's worth it to come back, but we'll see.

You are obviously incredibly unhappy here on all levels, why in the world would you stay anywhere that makes you so sad

Bethere
11-14-2017, 05:08 PM
I joined almost two years ago I think and didn't like what I saw. Came back by invitation earlier this year intending to discuss politics and rise above the trolling. Instead, I was attacked within three posts of my introductory one.

I continued to try to stay above the fray for several months. But after continued attacks (and refusal by mods to do anything), I decided wtf. Regardless, I've only had one infraction and stayed out of the Hole.

IMO, this whole advisor thing is bull$#@!. There's two "advisors" who should have been permabanned long ago. There's another two or three forum members who also do nothing but troll and flame and escape untouched. And no forum, other than Stormfront, needs blatant racists.

I'm heading out of the country for a few days. I honestly don't know if it's worth it to come back, but we'll see.

Don't let them run you off. It's what they want.

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 05:36 PM
You are obviously incredibly unhappy here on all levels, why in the world would you stay anywhere that makes you so sad
Not at all...

btw...for whichever of you actually had the gall to call the State Dept and tell them about Agent Zero posting on an internet forum, let me share this with you.


5 FAM 792.2 Personal Use of Social Media(CT:IM-184; 12-22-2016)
a. Department personnel may access and post entries to public, Internet-based social media sites, from OpenNet using their personal profile registered with a personal email address at those sites consistent with general policies on Internet use at 5 FAM 700 (http://a.m.state.sbu/sites/gis/dir/fam/Pages/05fam/05fam.aspx). Personal entries must not:
(1) Claim to represent the Department or its policies, or those of the U.S. Government, or use Department or other U.S. Government seals or logos; and
(2) Violate ethics rules, for example, the rules prohibiting the use of public office for private gain or the disclosure of nonpublic information and the rules concerning prohibited political activity; details regarding these rules are on the L/Ethics Intranet Web site.
b. Department personnel who create and/or use nonofficial social media sites must adhere to the policies contained in 5 FAM 777 (https://fam.state.gov/fam/05fam/05fam0770.html#M777) and 3 FAM 4170 (https://fam.state.gov/fam/03fam/03fam4170.html#M4170).
c. Department personnel who create and/or use nonofficial social media sites must not disclose information pertaining to procurement information in violation of 41 U.S.C. 2102.
d. Department personnel who create and/or use non-official social media must not disclose nonpublic information.
e. Department personnel working abroad who create and/or use nonofficial social media cites must adhere to the policies contained in 3 FAM 4123 (https://fam.state.gov/fam/03fam/03fam4120.html#M4123).
f. Family members of Department personnel working abroad who create and/or use social media cites must adhere to the policies contained in 3 FAM 4125 (https://fam.state.gov/fam/03fam/03fam4120.html#M4125).
g. Non-U.S. citizen Department personnel and U.S. citizen Department personnel who have been hired abroad who create and/or use nonofficial social media cites must adhere to the policies contained in 3 FAM 4126 (https://fam.state.gov/fam/03fam/03fam4120.html#M4126).
h. For personal (nonbusiness) materials produced when using social media sites, see 5 FAH-4 H-215.6 (https://fam.state.gov/fam/05fah04/05fah040210.html#H215_6), Personal Papers, for guidance.

And...

Given that State a. doesn't care and b. realizes that nearly every employee on our floor participates in forums of some sort or other, I'd like to advise you that all you did was a. give three floors of government a lot of laughs, and b. Make yourself look like the backwoods criminal loon that you are, and most importantly, c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 05:37 PM
Don't let them run you off. It's what they want.

Don't worry. No one's going to run me off.

resister
11-14-2017, 05:58 PM
Don't worry. No one's going to run me off.
Waiting for your next, nasty personal attack.:rollseyes:

jimmyz
11-14-2017, 06:04 PM
Not at all...

btw...for whichever of you actually had the gall to call the State Dept and tell them about Agent Zero posting on an internet forum, let me share this with you.



And...

Given that State a. doesn't care and b. realizes that nearly every employee on our floor participates in forums of some sort or other, I'd like to advise you that all you did was a. give three floors of government a lot of laughs, and b. Make yourself look like the backwoods criminal loon that you are, and most importantly, c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.

A tPF member contacted your office? WTF! How is that even doable? "Um yes, this guy Agent Orange bothers me".

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:05 PM
Not at all...

btw...for whichever of you actually had the gall to call the State Dept and tell them about Agent Zero posting on an internet forum, let me share this with you.



And...

Given that State a. doesn't care and b. realizes that nearly every employee on our floor participates in forums of some sort or other, I'd like to advise you that all you did was a. give three floors of government a lot of laughs, and b. Make yourself look like the backwoods criminal loon that you are, and most importantly, c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.

LoL, I have a good idea which member it was, I can't believe they would actually do such a thing. And to think, there was another member that got in serious trouble on the forum for doxing a member, I wonder if the same effort will be taken in this case....

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:06 PM
Speaking of which.....

jimmyz
11-14-2017, 06:07 PM
c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.

Tell them to sign-up. We need more participation.

Common
11-14-2017, 06:08 PM
There is so much to be disbelieved typed on this forum, its amazing really

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 06:11 PM
LoL, I have a good idea which member it was, I can't believe they would actually do such a thing. And to think, there was another member that got in serious trouble on the forum for doxing a member, I wonder if the same effort will be taken in this case....

Mods have known about it for a while.

resister
11-14-2017, 06:12 PM
Not at all...

btw...for whichever of you actually had the gall to call the State Dept and tell them about Agent Zero posting on an internet forum, let me share this with you.



And...

Given that State a. doesn't care and b. realizes that nearly every employee on our floor participates in forums of some sort or other, I'd like to advise you that all you did was a. give three floors of government a lot of laughs, and b. Make yourself look like the backwoods criminal loon that you are, and most importantly, c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.
I believe you are trying to imply me, just say it, be a man. Zero refers to my thread "political neutrality" where I was digging with a NG member, we are both members of a fossil forum, I mentioned political forums, said he was not allowed to post. So I made a thread about it and asked 0 his thoughts.

So zero spins this tale. Don't kid yourself, you are not worth the time. Phone time cost $, you are not worth one cent of mine.

Though, I am flattered that you actually, believe you could matter that much, to me!

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 06:12 PM
There is so much to be disbelieved typed on this forum, its amazing really
Maybe you shouldn’t use Townhall as a source.

resister
11-14-2017, 06:12 PM
LoL, I have a good idea which member it was, I can't believe they would actually do such a thing. And to think, there was another member that got in serious trouble on the forum for doxing a member, I wonder if the same effort will be taken in this case....
Jump on the bandwagon!

jimmyz
11-14-2017, 06:12 PM
Agent Zero... your IT pros should be able to tell you exactly who contacted them. If you can get that info, inform the correct entity here. bugging a member in real life is not cool.

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:13 PM
Mods have known about it for a while.

Interesting, maybe something will be done, for I was privy to a similar situation where they really dropped the hammer on a member for doxing here, but to know they went to your place of employment is a whole different level.

Standing by.

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 06:15 PM
I believe you are trying to imply me, just say it, be a man. Zero refers to my thread "political neutrality" where I was digging with a NG member, we are both members of a fossil forum, I mentioned political forums, said he was not allowed to post. So I made a thread about it and asked 0 his thoughts.

So zero spins this tale. Don't kid yourself, you are not worth the time. Phone time cost $, you are not worth one cent of mine.

Though, I am flattered that you actually, believe you could matter that much, to me!
What???

No, not you. We’re understaffed, your Tracphone airtime would be gone in ten minutes.

Common
11-14-2017, 06:15 PM
Not at all...

btw...for whichever of you actually had the gall to call the State Dept and tell them about Agent Zero posting on an internet forum, let me share this with you.



And...

Given that State a. doesn't care and b. realizes that nearly every employee on our floor participates in forums of some sort or other, I'd like to advise you that all you did was a. give three floors of government a lot of laughs, and b. Make yourself look like the backwoods criminal loon that you are, and most importantly, c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.
You are not important, you are not even a spec on my radar, I care nothing about you, dont care if you stay here or do not. I dont believe a word you spew, if you had any influence anywhere you wouldnt slather it on a small political forum which has absolutely ZERO influence in real life politics.

You are truly agent ZERO

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:16 PM
What???

No, not you. We’re understaffed, your Tracphone airtime would be gone in ten minutes.

:rofl:

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:17 PM
Jump on the bandwagon!

It's what all the cool kids do, amirite?

resister
11-14-2017, 06:18 PM
What???

No, not you. We’re understaffed, your Tracphone airtime would be gone in ten minutes.
"backwoods, criminal loon" since you constantly like throwing my past in my face, and I live in the sticks, just who are you talking about? MAN up, liar!

resister
11-14-2017, 06:20 PM
@Agent Orange... your IT pros should be able to tell you exactly who contacted them. If you can get that info, inform the correct entity here. bugging a member in real life is not cool.
He is spinning a fantasy, but you are right, in the unlikey event, he is, actually honest, would be a breeze!

jimmyz
11-14-2017, 06:21 PM
Jump on the bandwagon!

It's not you resister. See post #88

resister
11-14-2017, 06:24 PM
It's not you resister. See post #88
No, he is definitely, implying me, he just wont MAN up, and come out and say it, he is using my thread "political neutrality" to try to spin his BS tale.

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:31 PM
Man, what a way to end the first advisor town hall. Can't wait to see what's in store in the next installment.

Common
11-14-2017, 06:36 PM
Man, what a way to end the first advisor town hall. Can't wait to see what's in store in the next installment.
Keep up its the second and this one especially the ending was quite valuable in giving an overview of where the problems truly are.

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:38 PM
Keep up its the second and this one especially the ending was quite valuable in giving an overview of where the problems truly are.

My apologies, when was the first one?

Common
11-14-2017, 06:46 PM
My apologies, when was the first one?
Oct 9th

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 06:46 PM
Interesting, maybe something will be done, for I was privy to a similar situation where they really dropped the hammer on a member for doxing here, but to know they went to your place of employment is a whole different level.

Standing by.
DGutley was understanding, but what can they do?

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 06:47 PM
@Agent Zero (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1857)... your IT pros should be able to tell you exactly who contacted them. If you can get that info, inform the correct entity here. bugging a member in real life is not cool.

Lol Iím not going to bother them with that!

Safety
11-14-2017, 06:47 PM
Oct 9th

Oh, I was out of the states during that time. Again, mea culpa.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 06:55 PM
And so Mods, as Putin said to the UN, Ďcan you see what youíve done nowí? :)


Iíve seen it worse, but not in in-faction fighting. Iíll echo Agent zero here and say I often bend over backwards (metaphorically speaking :)), to try to get debate going, but unless it involves the usual American partisanship, itís met with silence, In which case, Iím reduced to going down the hole to write nonsense. So agent zero, youíve come for debate, yes please, what is it you want to debate?

Agent Zero
11-14-2017, 07:00 PM
A tPF member contacted your office? WTF! How is that even doable? "Um yes, this guy Agent Orange bothers me".
From what the grapevine says it was more like ďHey this guy hates Trump and is a traitor!Ē

Refugee
11-14-2017, 07:13 PM
Well, perhaps it was better than being pepper sprayed and hit over the head by people in black if you voted for him. :)

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 07:15 PM
Man, what a way to end the first advisor town hall. Can't wait to see what's in store in the next installment.

Technically, this is the second one, but yeah...

hanger4
11-14-2017, 07:22 PM
Not at all...

btw...for whichever of you actually had the gall to call the State Dept and tell them about Agent Zero posting on an internet forum, let me share this with you.



And...

Given that State a. doesn't care and b. realizes that nearly every employee on our floor participates in forums of some sort or other, I'd like to advise you that all you did was a. give three floors of government a lot of laughs, and b. Make yourself look like the backwoods criminal loon that you are, and most importantly, c. brought A WHOLE LOT OF GOVERNMENT EYES CHECKING OUT THIS FORUM. MORONS.

Did or does the State Dept. know you're Agent Zero ??

Adelaide
11-14-2017, 07:27 PM
Stop insulting or discussing each other.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 07:27 PM
Just sayin’ Mods.


Stop trying to be so liberal and becoming all things to all people. You are moderators, act like it. You’ve had this before, where people begin to leave the forum, or stop posting and you scratch your collective heads and wonder why. Start banning and that incudes the sycophants hanging on to your shirt tails. Don’t put yourselves higher than the members by title, because the majority of you haven’t earned it and if political science was a pre-requisite for moderation, most of you wouldn’t be moderators. So if you’re something else, do the something else and if it only involves enforcing the rules, do that instead, but do it.

You mods run the forum, don’t be so eager to blame members when it goes wrong, but praise yourselves when it goes right. You say you listen, but do you really? Instead of Town Hall gimmicks and suggestions, do the job you elected yourselves for.



Having said that, it is a difficult job, but you needn’t make it even harder on yourselves. For the members who complain there’s not enough debate and too much in-fighting, let’s have a debate then and we’ll set an example.



Silence?!

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 07:29 PM
Alright, alright, that's enough of the bickering. The purpose of this thread is to discuss potential ideas for advancing the forum, or address concerns you may have. Personal evaluations of other posters should be saved for PMs or the Hole, and questions about moderation should generally be referred to the moderators.

Are there any topical suggestions or concerns?

Safety
11-14-2017, 07:35 PM
Technically, this is the second one, but yeah...

Yea, common already straightened me out on that one.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 07:36 PM
Alright, alright, that's enough of the bickering. The purpose of this thread is to discuss potential ideas for advancing the forum, or address concerns you may have. Personal evaluations of other posters should be saved for PMs or the Hole, and questions about moderation should generally be referred to the moderators.

Are there any topical suggestions or concerns?


Yes, page 11, post 110 in case you missed it, although replies aren't a strong point here.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 07:40 PM
Yes, page 11, post 110 in case you missed it, although replies aren't a strong point here.


Your post was addressed to moderators. As I said, concerns about moderation should generally be referred to the moderators.

Chris
11-14-2017, 07:45 PM
Your post was addressed to moderators. As I said, concerns about moderation should generally be referred to the moderators.


Disagree. Town Halls should be open to any complaints and ideas--hopefully constructive--even about moderation.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 07:45 PM
Your post was addressed to moderators. As I said, concerns about moderation should generally be referred to the moderators.


Then take off the ‘moderators’ title and it won’t make you feel as guilty.

You want an input as to what’s going wrong, but it mustn’t include mods – yes OK.
I thought Town Halls were place for discussion, not a customer service complaints department. Silly me, but I’m a Brit and so I hope I’m forgiven. :)

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 07:55 PM
Disagree. Town Halls should be open to any complaints and ideas--hopefully constructive--even about moderation.

Noted. Moderators however have requested that feedback on moderation be referred to them. I intend to respect that.

resister
11-14-2017, 07:55 PM
Disagree. Town Halls should be open to any complaints and ideas--hopefully constructive--even about moderation.
My suggestion? Already gave it, when a report happens, don't ignore it based on the reporters, behavior. If the reporter is equally guilty, punish both.

This simple logic, could greatly improve, TPF. But what do I know? My suggestion has already been ignored, twice:rollseyes:

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 07:57 PM
Then take off the ‘moderators’ title and it won’t make you feel as guilty.
You want an input as to what’s going wrong, but it mustn’t include mods – yes OK.

I thought Town Halls were place for discussion, not a customer service complaints department. Silly me, but I’m a Brit and so I hope I’m forgiven. :)


It can include mods, but in the cases where it includes mods you'd be better served delivering those to the mods themselves directly. All I or any of the other Advisors have the power to do is advise the mods. We can't change their practices or decisions.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 07:58 PM
My post wasn’t a complaint, it was a series of suggestions concerning all parties.


All these threads about Town Halls and input end the same way in bans and closed threads when people start putting in some home truths. What exactly do you hope to gain by these so called ‘regulated’ discussions? How many more times do we need to hear, ‘members should behave themselves’ and ‘you make the forum what it is’? No GA, it is not a members run forum and if it was it would be anarchy. You’re in charge, the buck stops with you and if you’re hearing some home truths, it’s better you hear that now than scratch your head later and wonder where your posters have gone.



Never mind hiding behind secrecy, let’s get it out in the open where it belongs.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 08:03 PM
My post wasn’t a complaint, it was a series of suggestions concerning all parties.


All these threads about Town Halls and input end the same way in bans and closed threads when people start putting in some home truths. What exactly do you hope to gain by these so called ‘regulated’ discussions? How many more times do we need to hear, ‘members should behave themselves’ and ‘you make the forum what it is’? No GA, it is not a members run forum and if it was it would be anarchy. You’re in charge, the buck stops with you and if you’re hearing some home truths, it’s better you hear that now than scratch your head later and wonder where your posters have gone.


Never mind hiding behind secrecy, let’s get it out in the open where it belongs.



While I appreciate the promotion, I'm not in charge of this forum and have no real power over how it is run. All I do is pester the mods and ADMIN with suggestions that I think will improve the forum. Whether they opt to take those on is their prerogative.

Refugee
11-14-2017, 08:20 PM
On the one hand mods say they’re just members like everyone else, but on the other, none dare mention their names. I’m not discussing moderator decisions, I’m talking about what they should be doing as regards a forum currently in disarray. How is it possible to discuss that if you’re not allowed to mention the party that is in charge? I’ve little sympathy for you; you people make a rod for your own backs with your secrecy, whilst pretending to have open discussions.

You know, I wish there was a really open discussion thread about tPF and not one toeing the party line, my God, you’d hear some home truths and not just from me!



I’ll stop now as I can feel someone who shall remain UN-named gearing up for a TB. :)

resister
11-14-2017, 08:24 PM
Alright, alright, that's enough of the bickering. The purpose of this thread is to discuss potential ideas for advancing the forum, or address concerns you may have. Personal evaluations of other posters should be saved for PMs or the Hole, and questions about moderation should generally be referred to the moderators.

Are there any topical suggestions or concerns?
Have you considered mine? I have stated it, several times now. That one concept, would vastly improve TPF, most bad behavior goes on here, because it is allowed, based on the back N forth.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 08:24 PM
On the one hand mods say they’re just members like everyone else, but on the other, none dare mention their names. I’m not discussing moderator decisions, I’m talking about what they should be doing as regards a forum currently in disarray. How is it possible to discuss that if you’re not allowed to mention the party that is in charge? I’ve little sympathy for you; you people make a rod for your own backs with your secrecy, whilst pretending to have open discussions.

You know, I wish there was a really open discussion thread about tPF and not one toeing the party line, my God, you’d hear some home truths and not just from me!



I’ll stop now as I can feel someone who shall remain UN-named gearing up for a TB. :)


Like I said, I have no power to change how moderators moderate. Only they have that power. You'd find it's much more efficient to just go to them directly with those concerns. I will, however, bring your posts to their attention for them to consider. That's about the best I can do.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 08:26 PM
Have you considered mine? I have stated it, several times now. That one concept, would vastly improve TPF, most bad behavior goes on here, because it is allowed, based on the back N forth.

Personal attacks are not allowed with impunity, once reported moderators will act on it.

resister
11-14-2017, 08:29 PM
Personal attacks are not allowed with impunity, once reported moderators will act on it.
AFTER, they consider the part the reporter, played. Punish both, watch the forum, greatly improve.

Green Arrow
11-14-2017, 08:34 PM
AFTER, they consider the part the reporter, played. Punish both, watch the forum, greatly improve.
Generally speaking I think that is what they try to do, but I'll talk to them about it and see.

resister
11-14-2017, 08:48 PM
Generally speaking I think that is what they try to do, but I'll talk to them about it and see.
Thanks, it would help, not saying I am innocent, by any means. I am open to equal, behavior, modification.

William
11-14-2017, 08:53 PM
One of the things I used to do when I was a VIP (and will probably continue to do,) was never report an attack on myself, but report attacks I saw on other people (whether I agree with that person's politics or not). I only did this with personal attacks, and I think it may work if more people did that.

I think the one thing we maybe all agree on is that the level of bickering and personal attacks have increased since President Trump was elected - I dunno the reason, but this is no longer the place I joined like two years ago. Maybe I just got older and see things I never saw then. :huh:

Chris
11-14-2017, 08:54 PM
Noted. Moderators however have requested that feedback on moderation be referred to them. I intend to respect that.

That's fine.

Chris
11-14-2017, 08:58 PM
My suggestion? Already gave it, when a report happens, don't ignore it based on the reporters, behavior. If the reporter is equally guilty, punish both.

This simple logic, could greatly improve, TPF. But what do I know? My suggestion has already been ignored, twice:rollseyes:

Well, that's constructive and should be appreciated.

Chris
11-14-2017, 09:01 PM
It can include mods, but in the cases where it includes mods you'd be better served delivering those to the mods themselves directly. All I or any of the other Advisors have the power to do is advise the mods. We can't change their practices or decisions.

So as advisors you can take suggestions to improve moderation, discuss them further, and then give advice. All well and good.

resister
11-14-2017, 09:07 PM
One of the things I used to do when I was a VIP (and will probably continue to do,) was never report an attack on myself, but report attacks I saw on other people (whether I agree with that person's politics or not). I only did this with personal attacks, and I think it may work if more people did that.

I think the one thing we maybe all agree on is that the level of bickering and personal attacks have increased since President Trump was elected - I dunno the reason, but this is no longer the place I joined like two years ago. Maybe I just got older and see things I never saw then. :huh:

Of goodness, maybe we should infract Trump?

William
11-14-2017, 09:43 PM
Of goodness, maybe we should infract Trump?

Or maybe we should just keep quiet when we have nothing to add to a serious discussion? :wink:

resister
11-14-2017, 09:57 PM
Or maybe we should just keep quiet when we have nothing to add to a serious discussion? :wink:
Is it me, or is there an echo, in here? :wink:

Standing Wolf
11-14-2017, 10:34 PM
One of the things I used to do when I was a VIP (and will probably continue to do,) was never report an attack on myself, but report attacks I saw on other people (whether I agree with that person's politics or not). I only did this with personal attacks, and I think it may work if more people did that.

I think the one thing we maybe all agree on is that the level of bickering and personal attacks have increased since President Trump was elected - I dunno the reason, but this is no longer the place I joined like two years ago. Maybe I just got older and see things I never saw then.

In a nutshell, Trump's rise to power has created deep divisions on any number of levels because (1) so many people who are intelligent enough to see that he's a clueless, childish idiot nevertheless feel compelled to defend him against all criticism because they believe - wrongly, for the most part - that he advances certain aspects of their personal ideology, causing (2) a whole lot of other people to wonder what happened to their previously rational, perceptive and intelligent conservative friends and acquaintances that would cause them to see the turd in the punchbowl and continue to say that it's an ice cube.

resister
11-14-2017, 10:50 PM
In a nutshell, Trump's rise to power has created deep divisions on any number of levels because (1) so many people who are intelligent enough to see that he's a clueless, childish idiot nevertheless feel compelled to defend him against all criticism because they believe - wrongly, for the most part - that he advances certain aspects of their personal ideology, causing (2) a whole lot of other people to wonder what happened to their previously rational, perceptive and intelligent conservative friends and acquaintances that would cause them to see the turd in the punchbowl and continue to say that it's an ice cube.
Want to know how conservatives feel? Just replace the word "Trump" with "Obama" It goes both ways!

Standing Wolf
11-14-2017, 11:04 PM
Want to know how conservatives feel? Just replace the word "Trump" with "Obama" It goes both ways!

I wasn't trying to derail this thread, by the way - just providing a response to William's noting that Trump seems to have precipitated an increase in the general hostility level here (as elsewhere). R, one of the several problems I see with the comparison is that President Obama was, if you check the record with all the fairness and objectivity you can muster, a thoughtful, articulate and principled man. He made mistakes - and many of us who generally supported him were not shy about pointing them out - but he was not a crude, ignorant lout, devoid of all class, self-control, decency, maturity or standards...all of which Trump is in spades.

resister
11-14-2017, 11:12 PM
I wasn't trying to derail this thread, by the way - just providing a response to William's noting that Trump seems to have precipitated an increase in the general hostility level here (as elsewhere). R, one of the several problems I see with the comparison is that President Obama was, if you check the record with all the fairness and objectivity you can muster, a thoughtful, articulate and principled man. He made mistakes - and many of us who generally supported him were not shy about pointing them out - but he was not a crude, ignorant lout, devoid of all class, self-control, decency, maturity or standards...all of which Trump is in spades.
A tree is known by it's fruits. Has Trump traded one US traitor (who has escaped justice) for 5 terrorist? Has Trump kissed lil kim's ass?

Has Trump, delivered pallets of $ to Americas enemies in the dead of night? Has Trump gone on a world apology tour?

In the interest of non-derailment, I wont go on.

Common
11-15-2017, 07:07 AM
In a nutshell, Trump's rise to power has created deep divisions on any number of levels because (1) so many people who are intelligent enough to see that he's a clueless, childish idiot nevertheless feel compelled to defend him against all criticism because they believe - wrongly, for the most part - that he advances certain aspects of their personal ideology, causing (2) a whole lot of other people to wonder what happened to their previously rational, perceptive and intelligent conservative friends and acquaintances that would cause them to see the turd in the punchbowl and continue to say that it's an ice cube.
I thought this was a townhall, if you want to make it political thread I'll jump in but I doubt you will like my position

Common
11-15-2017, 07:08 AM
I wasn't trying to derail this thread, by the way - just providing a response to William's noting that Trump seems to have precipitated an increase in the general hostility level here (as elsewhere). R, one of the several problems I see with the comparison is that President Obama was, if you check the record with all the fairness and objectivity you can muster, a thoughtful, articulate and principled man. He made mistakes - and many of us who generally supported him were not shy about pointing them out - but he was not a crude, ignorant lout, devoid of all class, self-control, decency, maturity or standards...all of which Trump is in spades.

But you did

Standing Wolf
11-15-2017, 07:12 AM
But you did

As I already explained, William noted that the advent of Trump seems to have stirred up a lot of emotions on the board and made for a more hostile environment. I was simply attempting to explain, from my perspective, why and how that appears to have happened.

By all means, please ignore the brief interruption and continue with that highly useful and enlightening dialogue that was going on before.

Common
11-15-2017, 07:14 AM
As I already explained, William noted that the advent of Trump seems to have stirred up a lot of emotions on the board and made for a more hostile environment. I was simply attempting to explain, from my perspective, why and how that appears to have happened.

By all means, please ignore the brief interruption and continue with that highly useful and enlightening dialogue that was going on before.
So you felt that was an opportunity to rail on about trump ? Im just pointing out this was a townhall and turning it political defeats the purpose

Standing Wolf
11-15-2017, 07:20 AM
So you felt that was an opportunity to rail on about trump ?

Common, for the third (and final) time, I was explaining to someone who doesn't live in America why Trump's behavior and personality seems to have exacerbated our incivility problem here. That's all. It's a factor that does affect the quality of discussions on this forum, and so is a legitimate factor for comment - if not the extended conversation which, thanks to you, it is quickly becoming.

Common
11-15-2017, 07:25 AM
Common, for the third (and final) time, I was explaining to someone who doesn't live in America why Trump's behavior and personality seems to have exacerbated our incivility problem here. That's all. It's a factor that does affect the quality of discussions on this forum, and so is a legitimate factor for comment - if not the extended conversation which, thanks to you, it is quickly becoming.
Ok for the third time, you still made it political insulting trump. Since you had an opinion I have one :)

The forum got nastier since trump got elected because there are those who feel they have to blindly follow the resistance and denigrate the man for everything he does and says no matter if he does good or not and become sarcastic and insulting in the process, there are those that see value in some things he does and defends the absurd yelling at the sky childishness of people that are incensed they did not get their way. Everything has two stories, nothing is one sided.

Thom Paine
11-15-2017, 07:31 AM
Town hall is now open.

Wow. Nearly every party to this this conversation should be embarrassed for themselves; and yet, I've learned a personally valued lesson, so, for that I thank you all.

Safety
11-15-2017, 07:35 AM
So you felt that was an opportunity to rail on about trump ? Im just pointing out this was a townhall and turning it political defeats the purpose

First, it already became political when a member brought up liberal clique, post 70 was political, and several others. This is part of the issue here, you can't get upset whenever someone speaks negatively of Trump, we all had to endure eight years of people mentioning Obama for every little thing, so if there was a thick skin by the left over that crap, surely you can have one over Trump. Second, I don't think it's in the forum's best interest to suggest someone should leave over their being unhappy, because I remember very clearly when you were so upset at the way things were around here, don't you?


You are not important, you are not even a spec on my radar, I care nothing about you, dont care if you stay here or do not. I dont believe a word you spew, if you had any influence anywhere you wouldnt slather it on a small political forum which has absolutely ZERO influence in real life politics.

You are truly agent ZERO


I thought this was a townhall, if you want to make it political thread I'll jump in but I doubt you will like my position

You are obviously incredibly unhappy here on all levels, why in the world would you stay anywhere that makes you so sad

Common
11-15-2017, 07:39 AM
First, it already became political when a member brought up liberal clique, post 70 was political, and several others. This is part of the issue here, you can't get upset whenever someone speaks negatively of Trump, we all had to endure eight years of people mentioning Obama for every little thing, so if there was a thick skin by the left over that crap, surely you can have one over Trump. Second, I don't think it's in the forum's best interest to suggest someone should leave over their being unhappy, because I remember very clearly when you were so upset at the way things were around here, don't you?

Youre not important either and I meant exactly what I said

Chris
11-15-2017, 07:56 AM
I wasn't trying to derail this thread, by the way - just providing a response to William's noting that Trump seems to have precipitated an increase in the general hostility level here (as elsewhere). R, one of the several problems I see with the comparison is that President Obama was, if you check the record with all the fairness and objectivity you can muster, a thoughtful, articulate and principled man. He made mistakes - and many of us who generally supported him were not shy about pointing them out - but he was not a crude, ignorant lout, devoid of all class, self-control, decency, maturity or standards...all of which Trump is in spades.



So let's suggest making Trump a vulgar word so it's censored to ******.

Chris
11-15-2017, 08:04 AM
Noted. Moderators however have requested that feedback on moderation be referred to them. I intend to respect that.

Fine, but can we then expect moderators, following discussion and deliberation, to respond to the many constructive criticisms in this town hall? Nothing more frustrating than to be asked to think about input, give it, and then have it for all intents and purposes ignored. Last town hall, a month ago, most of the input concerned moderation and members have heard nothing in response.

hanger4
11-15-2017, 08:31 AM
First, it already became political when a member brought up liberal clique, post 70 was political, and several others. This is part of the issue here, you can't get upset whenever someone speaks negatively of Trump, we all had to endure eight years of people mentioning Obama for every little thing, so if there was a thick skin by the left over that crap, surely you can have one over Trump. Second, I don't think it's in the forum's best interest to suggest someone should leave over their being unhappy, because I remember very clearly when you were so upset at the way things were around here, don't you?

Response via PM

Green Arrow
11-15-2017, 09:23 AM
Fine, but can we then expect moderators, following discussion and deliberation, to respond to the many constructive criticisms in this town hall? Nothing more frustrating than to be asked to think about input, give it, and then have it for all intents and purposes ignored. Last town hall, a month ago, most of the input concerned moderation and members have heard nothing in response.

I will forward your concerns to the moderators.

Chris
11-15-2017, 09:28 AM
I will forward your concerns to the moderators.

Can't they just read this thread themselves? Why is there any need for anyone to forward it to them?

Yes, I understand, the TH is run by Advisors, iow, Advisors keep order and report off-topic stuff like bickering to mods to deal with it.

It's not like the mods are in some isolated room away from the main forum.

jimmyz
11-15-2017, 09:39 AM
I wasn't trying to derail this thread, by the way - just providing a response to William's noting that Trump seems to have precipitated an increase in the general hostility level here (as elsewhere). R, one of the several problems I see with the comparison is that President Obama was, if you check the record with all the fairness and objectivity you can muster, a thoughtful, articulate and principled man. He made mistakes - and many of us who generally supported him were not shy about pointing them out - but he was not a crude, ignorant lout, devoid of all class, self-control, decency, maturity or standards...all of which Trump is in spades.

One thing about the Trump phenomenon is that people who felt that they had to hold their opinions in public during Pres. Obama's administration, now feel it is safe to talk brashly and divulge their frustrations.

nic34
11-15-2017, 09:51 AM
A tree is known by it's fruits. Has Trump traded one US traitor (who has escaped justice) for 5 terrorist? Has Trump kissed lil kim's ass?

Has Trump, delivered pallets of $ to Americas enemies in the dead of night? Has Trump gone on a world apology tour?

In the interest of non-derailment, I wont go on.

No, Trump just bad mouths the US while on Chinese soil. And folks get all pushed in because some ballplayers kneel instead of stand.... wow!

resister
11-15-2017, 09:58 AM
No, Trump just bad mouths the US while on Chinese soil. And folks get all pushed in because some ballplayers kneel instead of stand.... wow!Report back when he uses the IRS as a political weapon!

jimmyz
11-15-2017, 10:14 AM
What if Moderators took one, two or more members that are being hot-head against the rules type of contentious and derailing the thread topic out of that thread and placed them into a sub-thread (same OP topic) unto themselves? A 2.0 thread to keep the mud-slinging out of the original thread.

The original thread with polite discourse could continue unabated while the hot-heads did their thing in the spin-off thread.The spin-off thread members would be disallowed to participate further in the original thread.

You would kill two birds with one stone.

Green Arrow
11-15-2017, 10:58 AM
Can't they just read this thread themselves? Why is there any need for anyone to forward it to them?

Yes, I understand, the TH is run by Advisors, iow, Advisors keep order and report off-topic stuff like bickering to mods to deal with it.

It's not like the mods are in some isolated room away from the main forum.

How about you tell me what you want me to say so I can say it in a way you’ll be happy with?

Chris
11-15-2017, 11:08 AM
How about you tell me what you want me to say so I can say it in a way you’ll be happy with?

Why take it personal, Green? Let's stick to the purpose of the town hall. Setting aside the bickering, given the first TH was mainly about moderation, it's hardly unexpected this one is. Without responses to TH input, it seems like it's ignored.

Bethere
11-15-2017, 12:36 PM
21056

puppies!

KathyS
11-15-2017, 04:32 PM
Babies!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9gBCkSzr1k

Adelaide
11-15-2017, 09:11 PM
Alright - I am going to close this Town Hall. Thank you to those who have participated in good faith. The Advisors (and moderators) have a lot of things to discuss.