More Screw-Ups with Arlington National Cemetary.....

[MMC]

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/arlington-records-prompts-investigation-195751230.html;_ylt=AoG36AYVQ_d47hPuimnKnmGM5QcF;_ ylu=X3oDMTM5djZzc2k3BHBrZwNhZTljMGY3ZS0xNWJlLTNiZT ktYjUyOC02ZjBhMzE3NjkxMWUEcG9zAzQEc2VjA01lZGlhVG9w U3RvcnkEdmVyA2FmNWY0ODgwLTlkZGYtMTFlMC1iZGI3LTkzZT NlNjczNGQyYQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTI1ZWpiYW1kBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANwb2xpdGljc3x1LXMgZ292ZXJubWVudA RwdANzZWN0aW9ucw--;_ylv=3

WASHINGTON (AP) — Army criminal investigators are investigating the discovery of 69 boxes of burial records from Arlington National Cemetery found abandoned in a commercial storage facility, the latest in a string of embarrassing revelations about operations at the U.S. military's most hallowed burial ground.

Last June, the Army's inspector general found more than 200 discrepancies between burial maps and grave sites, meaning the location of some people's remains were incorrectly recorded on some maps. Officials found cemetery operations were poorly managed and reliant on paper records to keep track of more than two dozen interments a day. The cemetery is where some 300,000 troops, spouses and U.S. dignitaries have been laid to rest since 1864.

Condon and other newly appointed officials have worked since last summer to unravel the problems, even opening some graves.

WTF.....The Fed needs to get it's act together. These men and women have Paved the Way. They have paid the ultimate price for the rest of us. What the fuck is wrong with the politicians in this country. Yeah saying thanks is one thing publicly. Thats for those who made it home. But YOU DO NOT TREAD ON THE HEROES WHO ARE NOT RETURNING TO THEIR LOVED ONES. You DO NOT make mistakes with those that paid the Bill for all others. This is the responsibilty of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. They should at least be able to get this fucking right if nothing else. Veterans need to be more vocal about this shit. More Veterans should be running for office and looking to get more involved with the people in taking back this Country. From the so-called Aristocracy of our Two parties. Lets these politicians know they have somebody watching over their Shoulders. Thoughts? http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/signs/misc_rant2.gif

[Conley]

That's just horrible. Even in death the government is mistreating our fallen. It speaks to how messed up our priorities are. Is there no money in the defense budget to properly respect these heroes?

[MMC]

As you can see I don't take it to kindly with the treatment of my Extended Family. I wouldn't care where they got the money. They need to get this straightened out ASAP. This is where the President should step in and tell these dipshits to get it right. Like as In I want this matter solved by Friday!!!!!

[Conley]

is it any wonder? these are the guys who will pay millions and millions over budget for an experimental jet fighter but couldn't find the money for proper body armor or reinforced humvees before deploying thousands of our finest >:(

[MMC]

Yeah and lets not forget all that money to the likes of Karzai so he can steal it and still have is infrastructure built up by our tax-payer money. >:(

[Conley]

Yeah and lets not forget all that money to the likes of Karzai so he can steal it and still have is infrastructure built up by our tax-payer money. >:(


yep also 6 billion in cash for iraqis vanishes and the fed gov't hardly bats an eye. they'll just print more ::)

[GRUMPY]

is it any wonder? these are the guys who will pay millions and millions over budget for an experimental jet fighter but couldn't find the money for proper body armor or reinforced humvees before deploying thousands of our finest >:(

this is for another thread obviously, but you "go to war with the army you have" and we should never forget that intentions may change on the dime but ones ability to effectively deal with those changed intentions does not.....still, maybe we should consider this before making poorly thought out cuts to the military or cashing in on another piece dividend....in short the men and women who put their lives on the line should have the best equipment available without regard to cost and cutting the military should not be part of the balance the budget, reduce the debt debate....if we can save money by eliminating redundancy, inefficiency or harnessing the procurement process so be it....

[Conley]

is it any wonder? these are the guys who will pay millions and millions over budget for an experimental jet fighter but couldn't find the money for proper body armor or reinforced humvees before deploying thousands of our finest >:(

this is for another thread obviously, but you "go to war with the army you have" and we should never forget that intentions may change on the dime but ones ability to effectively deal with those changed intentions does not.....still, maybe we should consider this before making poorly thought out cuts to the military or cashing in on another piece dividend....in short the men and women who put their lives on the line should have the best equipment available without regard to cost and cutting the military should not be part of the balance the budget, reduce the debt debate....if we can save money by eliminating redundancy, inefficiency or harnessing the procurement process so be it....


that was such a bullshit quote from rummy, but yeah. agreed the conflict may be in different parts of the world but with a budget like ours there's no reason these men and women can't have the finest equipment available. we can definitely save money within the defense budget by not paying $200 for a screw or $500 for a toilet. Just like hospital stays some of the markups are ridiculous and should be illegal frankly. Ripping off the government is stealing from the people.

[Mister D]

Never been to Arlington. I'm going to Gettysburg again in a month or so. The cemetery there is pretty cool.

[Conley]

Never been to Arlington. I'm going to Gettysburg again in a month or so. The cemetery there is pretty cool.


road trip?

what do you do there? just walk around?

[Mister D]

Never been to Arlington. I'm going to Gettysburg again in a month or so. The cemetery there is pretty cool.


road trip?

what do you do there? just walk around?


You can tour the battlefield which is cool but the there is more for folks like me to do (i.e. those who love their history). For one thing, it's an old town with an old college. There are also loads of militaria and antique shops. Last time I was there I found a newspaper dated 1876 from Westfield NJ. That's right around where I grew up. It has an article on Custer's last stand. It's one thing to read an old newspaper but quite another to read one from where you grew up but almost a century before you were born.

[Mister D]

They also have a first class museum. I think it's the best in Civil War museum in the country.

[MMC]

I heard that too.....I plan to take the whole family and we are going to get a camp ground when we check out Ghettysburg and the mock battles they have. Plus I am taking my Family to Washington D.C.

For me and my line, visiting the Nations Capitol is a must. I wouldn't give a shit what type of government it was. Especially after I shed blood for it. We took the family to Springfield Illinois for that State Capitol. But when we went they didn't have that Lincoln Museaum. Still It was great seeing the Home of the True Republican.

[GRUMPY]

is it any wonder? these are the guys who will pay millions and millions over budget for an experimental jet fighter but couldn't find the money for proper body armor or reinforced humvees before deploying thousands of our finest >:(

this is for another thread obviously, but you "go to war with the army you have" and we should never forget that intentions may change on the dime but ones ability to effectively deal with those changed intentions does not.....still, maybe we should consider this before making poorly thought out cuts to the military or cashing in on another piece dividend....in short the men and women who put their lives on the line should have the best equipment available without regard to cost and cutting the military should not be part of the balance the budget, reduce the debt debate....if we can save money by eliminating redundancy, inefficiency or harnessing the procurement process so be it....


that was such a bullshit quote from rummy, but yeah. agreed the conflict may be in different parts of the world but with a budget like ours there's no reason these men and women can't have the finest equipment available. we can definitely save money within the defense budget by not paying $200 for a screw or $500 for a toilet. Just like hospital stays some of the markups are ridiculous and should be illegal frankly. Ripping off the government is stealing from the people.

conley you might not like rummy and i have many problems with that small footprint bs but that statement quite clearly reflects the unvarnished reality of war.....

[Conley]

Never been to Arlington. I'm going to Gettysburg again in a month or so. The cemetery there is pretty cool.


road trip?

what do you do there? just walk around?


You can tour the battlefield which is cool but the there is more for folks like me to do (i.e. those who love their history). For one thing, it's an old town with an old college. There are also loads of militaria and antique shops. Last time I was there I found a newspaper dated 1876 from Westfield NJ. That's right around where I grew up. It has an article on Custer's last stand. It's one thing to read an old newspaper but quite another to read one from where you grew up but almost a century before you were born.


yes, that does sound really cool. i've never been much of a collector of anything but i can see the appeal of something like a newspaper from that era.

[Conley]

is it any wonder? these are the guys who will pay millions and millions over budget for an experimental jet fighter but couldn't find the money for proper body armor or reinforced humvees before deploying thousands of our finest >:(

this is for another thread obviously, but you "go to war with the army you have" and we should never forget that intentions may change on the dime but ones ability to effectively deal with those changed intentions does not.....still, maybe we should consider this before making poorly thought out cuts to the military or cashing in on another piece dividend....in short the men and women who put their lives on the line should have the best equipment available without regard to cost and cutting the military should not be part of the balance the budget, reduce the debt debate....if we can save money by eliminating redundancy, inefficiency or harnessing the procurement process so be it....


that was such a bullshit quote from rummy, but yeah. agreed the conflict may be in different parts of the world but with a budget like ours there's no reason these men and women can't have the finest equipment available. we can definitely save money within the defense budget by not paying $200 for a screw or $500 for a toilet. Just like hospital stays some of the markups are ridiculous and should be illegal frankly. Ripping off the government is stealing from the people.

conley you might not like rummy and i have many problems with that small footprint bs but that statement quite clearly reflects the unvarnished reality of war.....


the point grumpy is that our military should never have been that poorly equipped to start with, and it is the responsibility of the government to allow them to properly arm themselves, not to make bullshit excuses and throw your hands in the air as if it were just bad luck or some such. furthermore it wasn't as if the return to combat in iraq wasn't predictable for years beforehand. an overnight sneak invasion it was not...there was plenty of time to plan and prepare.

[GRUMPY]

conley your point should be that the military must always be prepared......prior to 9-11 this nation had been busy cashing in on the peace dividend.....further the authorization for the use of force was not acquired until oct 02 and we went it in mar 03 and expenditures are authorized by congress.....again we must be always prepared intentions, circumstance, alliances etc may rapidly change while your ability to adequately respond will not....we really don't disagree on this....for instance obama, gates and lil mac and co not to long ago kicked the f22 to the curb in favor of a cheaper joint strike fighter....since then the chinese have announced their newest 5th generation stealth fighter....in short we are giving away air superiority because obama, gates, lil mac and the boys want to save money and are sure that we don't need this degree of air superiority.....my argument is that the men who put their lives on the line deserve the very best and advanced weapon we can put at their disposal.....

[Mister D]

The US military has a history of being unprepared and I don't mean that in reference to events like Pearl Harbor and mobilization for WW2. I am speaking in strictly post-war context. We should not have had to relearn counterinsurgency strategies after our experience in Vietnam, for example. A 2nd Generation warfare mentality permeates our leadership.

[Conley]

The US military has a history of being unprepared and I don't mean that in reference to events like Pearl Harbor and mobilization for WW2. I am speaking in strictly post-war context. We should not have had to relearn counterinsurgency strategies after our experience in Vietnam, for example. A 2nd Generation warfare mentality permeates our leadership.


nailed it. pains me to do it, but i had to give a +1 ;)

[Conley]

conley your point should be that the military must always be prepared......prior to 9-11 this nation had been busy cashing in on the peace dividend.....further the authorization for the use of force was not acquired until oct 02 and we went it in mar 03 and expenditures are authorized by congress.....again we must be always prepared intentions, circumstance, alliances etc may rapidly change while your ability to adequately respond will not....we really don't disagree on this....for instance obama, gates and lil mac and co not to long ago kicked the f22 to the curb in favor of a cheaper joint strike fighter....since then the chinese have announced their newest 5th generation stealth fighter....in short we are giving away air superiority because obama, gates, lil mac and the boys want to save money and are sure that we don't need this degree of air superiority.....my argument is that the men who put their lives on the line deserve the very best and advanced weapon we can put at their disposal.....


good points all, it is true that we agree more than disagree but i don't think we'll be losing air superiority to china any time soon. by the way how many carriers do they have? other than a nuclear scenario i think our military stands up quite dominant to theirs, but that's assuming we engage at full strength and without combat fatigue, a hypothetical that is becoming less and less likely. it's crazy to me to think that in the time of a generation we have become a society that accepts long drawn out wars/occupations as a status quo with hardly a second thought...

[Mister D]

Conley, I think we accept these things because these wars don't touch our lives the way previous conflicts did. I'm not downplaying the effects on vets and their families so hopefully no one reading this thinks that. What I mean is that for many if not most of us the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are remote. We have a professional army. I guess it's similar to Great Britain's colonial wars in the sense that our lives are only indirectly impacted.

[MMC]

The US military has a history of being unprepared and I don't mean that in reference to events like Pearl Harbor and mobilization for WW2. I am speaking in strictly post-war context. We should not have had to relearn counterinsurgency strategies after our experience in Vietnam, for example. A 2nd Generation warfare mentality permeates our leadership.


Exactly D.....Vietnam is the perfect Example. Note that once Petraeus put the method into effect what the results were. Should have been prepared from the start. Y ou got a bump off of me too on this. :)

[GRUMPY]

for your benefit conley.....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304584004576416271311589238.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

i would disagree with rummy in that i believe gates has been a disaster, rubberstamping obma's cutting the very weapons systems mentioned in the articles and signed off on start 2 as well....

[GRUMPY]

i would agree with this take on gates and believe that the move of panetta to dod signals another round of shrinkage in store for our military.....i wonder if petraus will tell holder to shove his prosecutions of cia interrogators now that he is running the cia or has he become just another political tool as well.....

[MMC]

I have the Utmost Confidence in the Honorable General Petraeus.....of course I am biased. Sua Sponte.....Huah. http://www.mazeguy.net/military/m1helmet.gif

[GRUMPY]

I have the Utmost Confidence in the Honorable General Petraeus.....of course I am biased. Sua Sponte.....Huah. http://www.mazeguy.net/military/m1helmet.gif

i hope that you are right....his unsolicited comments re the idiot burning korans was not a good sign....too often attaining the rank/stature of petraus requires one become politicized....i certainly respect him and the job he did for our country in iraq and can only hope for the same at the cia....

[Mister D]

I have the Utmost Confidence in the Honorable General Petraeus.....of course I am biased. Sua Sponte.....Huah. http://www.mazeguy.net/military/m1helmet.gif

i hope that you are right....his unsolicited comments re the idiot burning korans was not a good sign....too often attaining the rank/stature of petraus requires one become politicized....i certainly respect him and the job he did for our country in iraq and can only hope for the same at the cia....


As far as generals becoming politicized to some extent I think it's inevitable.