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Chris
11-16-2017, 01:00 PM
That's the title but what I'm going to focus on in the article is the surprising actions of feminists at the time.

Here's Why Liberals Are Finally Reckoning With Bill Clinton's Alleged Sex Crimes (http://digg.com/2017/bill-clinton-sex-crimes-reckoning)


In the wake of bombshell reports about Harvey Weinstein's history of sexually harassing and assaulting women, dozens of powerful men have lost their jobs after being outed as sexual predators. Now liberals are turning their focus to one powerful man who didn't lose his job after being outed as a sexual predator: Bill Clinton. This week, writers at the New York Times, the Atlantic, Vox and Politico have returned to the allegations against Clinton and concluded that Democrats made the wrong call when they rushed to defend him in the '90s.

Clinton has been accused of raping Juanita Broaddrick in 1978, of propositioning and exposing himself to Paula Jones in 1991, of groping Kathleen Willey in 1993 and — most famously — of having an affair with an intern, Monica Lewinsky, in the mid-'90s. Clinton has continued to deny all the allegations except the Lewinsky affair, and Democrats have largely ignored or cast doubt on the other allegations. Until now.

On Monday, the Atlantic's Caitlin Flanagan published an essay called "Bill Clinton: A Reckoning," in which she argues that the feminists who came to Clinton's defense in the late '90s were "on the wrong side of history." Flanagan writes,



It was a pattern of behavior; it included an alleged violent assault; the women involved had far more credible evidence than many of the most notorious accusations that have come to light in the past five weeks. But Clinton was not left to the swift and pitiless justice that today’s accused men have experienced. Rather, he was rescued by a surprising force: machine feminism. The movement had by then ossified into a partisan operation, and it was willing — eager — to let this friend of the sisterhood enjoy a little droit de seigneur.


Flanagan returns to an opinion piece Gloria Steinem wrote about the Lewinsky scandal in 1998, in which Steinem argued that Clinton was guilty of no wrongdoing with Willey and Jones because he "seems to have made a clumsy sexual pass, then accepted rejection" — an unthinkable argument for a feminist to make by today's standards.



The notorious 1998 New York Times op-ed by Gloria Steinem must surely stand as one of the most regretted public actions of her life. It slut-shamed, victim-blamed, and age-shamed; it urged compassion for and gratitude to the man the women accused. Moreover (never write an op-ed in a hurry; you’ll accidentally say what you really believe), it characterized contemporary feminism as a weaponized auxiliary of the Democratic Party.


Follow the link to read what he Atlantic, Vox and Politico have to say.

DGUtley
11-16-2017, 01:06 PM
Y'know, I was wondering why if Moore is presumed guilty and must step down because of allegations, why the left supported Bill and didn't require him to step down bc of similar and worse allegations.

Chris
11-16-2017, 01:16 PM
Very good question. Bill might get his due in the end and die disgraced.

ripmeister
11-16-2017, 01:31 PM
DG and Chris. Are you equating Bills actions with the alleged actions against a 14 year old? Surely not. Also, with all this outrage everywhere what about POTUS' actions. I think its very telling that The Salesman hasn't weighed in on this. He doesn't want to revisit the "grabbing", both literally and figuratively.

Chris
11-16-2017, 01:45 PM
DG and Chris. Are you equating Bills actions with the alleged actions against a 14 year old? Surely not. Also, with all this outrage everywhere what about POTUS' actions. I think its very telling that The Salesman hasn't weighed in on this. He doesn't want to revisit the "grabbing", both literally and figuratively.

Hmm, let me reread what we posted. No, I don't see that. Bill was a sexual predator who used his power to force himself on women. And I'm not outraged, just curious why the left never turned against Bill.

DGUtley
11-16-2017, 01:56 PM
DG and Chris. Are you equating Bills actions with the alleged actions against a 14 year old? Surely not. Also, with all this outrage everywhere what about POTUS' actions. I think its very telling that The Salesman hasn't weighed in on this. He doesn't want to revisit the "grabbing", both literally and figuratively.

Turn about is fair play: Rip, are you saying that it's ok to rape older women? Surely not. Why then, did the left disbelieve the Bill accusers and believe the Moore accusers? Me personally, I believe them all. I'm just curious why the left chooses to disbelieve one set of female rape accusers (Democrat accused) and chooses to believe another (Republican accused).

Who is The Salesman?

Beevee
11-16-2017, 02:02 PM
Y'know, I was wondering why if Moore is presumed guilty and must step down because of allegations, why the left supported Bill and didn't require him to step down bc of similar and worse allegations.

Because times change. JFK was a philanderer and those who knew chose to ignore it. Today is different, if only because women are no longer prepared to stand for it, assuming they are not a part of it as Marilyn Monroe was, and look what purportedly happened to her.

DGUtley
11-16-2017, 02:08 PM
Because times change. JFK was a philanderer and those who knew chose to ignore it. Today is different, if only because women are no longer prepared to stand for it, assuming they are not a part of it as Marilyn Monroe was, and look what purportedly happened to her.

1. Ok..... Moore's allegations are 40 years ago. 40 years. (Note: I am not suggesting that Moore should get a pass -- I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the left's acceptance of Bill and condemnation of Moore -- I condemned both.)

2. Bill was accused of rape by these women, not philandering conduct. The left gave him a total and complete pass. You don't see any inconsistency between their treatment of Bill and their now treatment of Moore? Or, more appropriately put -- should the left now demand that all Bill Clinton buildings, statutes, references etc be stricken from history? Should Bill now be scorned? Should his supporters be driven from public and prestigious positions? If not, why not?


21074

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVu_TQ5sPXAhWi8YMKHXlUAMMQjhwIBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWillia m_Jefferson_Clinton_Federal_Building&psig=AOvVaw2aAgS28qzXqAZOJAJZ2C4A&ust=1510946005719072

Chris
11-16-2017, 02:11 PM
Because times change. JFK was a philanderer and those who knew chose to ignore it. Today is different, if only because women are no longer prepared to stand for it, assuming they are not a part of it as Marilyn Monroe was, and look what purportedly happened to her.


Times change, Reps are in charge.

Beevee
11-16-2017, 02:13 PM
The 40 years could be 4 years or 4 months or 4 days. What's different is that women are no longer prepared to remain silent.
I'm not opposed to Clinton being vilified for his proclaclivities as long as everyone who chose that way of life doesn't get away with it either.

Chris
11-16-2017, 02:17 PM
The 40 years could be 4 years or 4 months or 4 days. What's different is that women are no longer prepared to remain silent.
I'm not opposed to Clinton being vilified for his proclaclivities as long as everyone who chose that way of life doesn't get away with it either.

Agree.

DGUtley
11-16-2017, 02:17 PM
The 40 years could be 4 years or 4 months or 4 days. What's different is that women are no longer prepared to remain silent. I'm not opposed to Clinton being vilified for his proclaclivities as long as everyone who chose that way of life doesn't get away with it either.

Thank you. We agree.

Chris
11-16-2017, 03:07 PM
A liberal, a conservative and a libertarian agree.

https://s33.postimg.org/8hmem5e67/pig_group_fly_md_wht.gif

AZ Jim
11-16-2017, 03:15 PM
And the Clinton hate moves on....

DGUtley
11-16-2017, 03:17 PM
And the Clinton hate moves on....

It's not Clinton hate. Those allegations are out there. Those women are pretty consistent -- and believable. Can you really say the treatment isn't disparate?

Chris
11-16-2017, 03:43 PM
And the Clinton hate moves on....

Yes, it moved on and was replaced by Bush hate, then Obama hate, now Trump hate.

But here we're talking about abuse of power coupled with sexual abuse.

Safety
11-16-2017, 04:15 PM
Whataboutism.

Captdon
11-16-2017, 04:19 PM
Because times change. JFK was a philanderer and those who knew chose to ignore it. Today is different, if only because women are no longer prepared to stand for it, assuming they are not a part of it as Marilyn Monroe was, and look what purportedly happened to her.

No one has ever said Kennedy forced himself on them.

Captdon
11-16-2017, 04:20 PM
And the Clinton hate moves on....

Yep. We have had a known rapist elected twice by the very people crying now. Good work.

barb012
11-16-2017, 06:04 PM
All of these politicians that display disgust over these allegations is just a show for public support. Most of them are sexual predators as they have powerful positions. I wonder how much money all of these woman who remained silent for over 40 years are getting paid to come forward and make this public. Of course, this will never be made public.

Their real motives is each party will stop at nothing to gain as many seats as possible right now because so much is at stake.

MisterVeritis
11-16-2017, 06:11 PM
Turn about is fair play: Rip, are you saying that it's ok to rape older women? Surely not. Why then, did the left disbelieve the Bill accusers and believe the Moore accusers? Me personally, I believe them all. I'm just curious why the left chooses to disbelieve one set of female rape accusers (Democrat accused) and chooses to believe another (Republican accused).

Who is The Salesman?
No one has accused Judge Moore of rape or attempted rape.

One woman claimed she was 14 years old when Moore touched her. Is there any evidence? So far I am unaware of any.

One woman accused Judge Moore of sexual assault. She also failed to mention that Judge Moore tried her divorce case and dismissed it. Oh, and the Yearbook entry appears to be a crude forgery.

The other women Moore dated were at or above the consent age. What is the problem?

MisterVeritis
11-16-2017, 06:13 PM
The 40 years could be 4 years or 4 months or 4 days. What's different is that women are no longer prepared to remain silent.
I'm not opposed to Clinton being vilified for his proclivities as long as everyone who chose that way of life doesn't get away with it either.
No one has a perfect memory. In fact, the experts will tell you if it wasn't written down at the time it happened the memory is suspect. So a woman claims Judge Moore touched her over her clothes 40 years ago. Why should we believe her?

MisterVeritis
11-16-2017, 06:15 PM
No one has ever said Kennedy forced himself on them.
Kennedy once told his brother something like, if he didn't get fresh pussy every few days he would get headaches. So for JFK, it was clearly medical. :-)

Chris
11-16-2017, 09:03 PM
Oh, my, now the left is going after Bine.

The left turns on Bill Clinton, Biden over behavior toward women (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/16/left-turns-on-bill-clinton-biden-over-behavior-toward-women.html)


...Then there's Biden. While the former vice president does not face the kind of allegations against Bill Clinton, he's faced criticism over photos showing him with his hands on women -- including an infamous picture of him holding the shoulders of former Defense Secretary Ash Carter’s wife, with his face close to her ear and hair.

This month, Biden said he would not rule out a presidential run in 2020. But now, some liberals are questioning whether Biden would be fit to be a 2020 presidential candidate in “these times.”

Columns in both the Huffington Post and the Daily Beast this week call Biden “a terrible idea” for 2020.

“Biden is the wrong guy to bear the standard of any party purporting to speak for the victims of unaccountable power,” Huffington Post Washington Bureau Chief Amanda Terkel wrote.

“This isn’t just based on whispers or rumors; there are so many photos and clips of Biden looming over, or massaging, or gently nuzzling, or whispering to, or kissing women and girls who don’t seem all that into it,” the Daily Beast’s Erin Gloria Ryan wrote. “Right now, a society grappling with men, power, sexual exploitation, and consent does not need Joe Biden’s highlight reel playing alongside Rep. Jackie Speier’s pledge to fight sexual harassment on the Hill.”


The left has, so to speak, hoist its own petard! It's haste to go after Moore, who deserves it, has backfired.

ripmeister
11-16-2017, 09:31 PM
Turn about is fair play: Rip, are you saying that it's ok to rape older women? Surely not. Why then, did the left disbelieve the Bill accusers and believe the Moore accusers? Me personally, I believe them all. I'm just curious why the left chooses to disbelieve one set of female rape accusers (Democrat accused) and chooses to believe another (Republican accused).

Who is The Salesman?

Of course not. I was referring to the comparison to the Lewinsky situation which was what ultimately got him impeached.

ripmeister
11-16-2017, 09:33 PM
Oh, my, now the left is going after Bine.

The left turns on Bill Clinton, Biden over behavior toward women (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/16/left-turns-on-bill-clinton-biden-over-behavior-toward-women.html)




The left has, so to speak, hoist its own petard! It's haste to go after Moore, who deserves it, has backfired.
The times they are a changin.

resister
11-16-2017, 10:19 PM
Oh, my, now the left is going after Bine.

The left turns on Bill Clinton, Biden over behavior toward women (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/16/left-turns-on-bill-clinton-biden-over-behavior-toward-women.html)




The left has, so to speak, hoist its own petard! It's haste to go after Moore, who deserves it, has backfired.

Great anology, the petard, better have a substantial, backing. Look out for that , recoil!

MisterVeritis
11-16-2017, 10:32 PM
It's haste to go after Moore, who deserves it, has backfired.
Why, in your opinion, does Judge Moore deserve to be gone after?

Chris
11-16-2017, 10:48 PM
The times they are a changin.

Right, astute! Where once the Dems were in control now the Reps are.

Hoosier8
11-16-2017, 10:49 PM
DG and Chris. Are you equating Bills actions with the alleged actions against a 14 year old? Surely not. Also, with all this outrage everywhere what about POTUS' actions. I think its very telling that The Salesman hasn't weighed in on this. He doesn't want to revisit the "grabbing", both literally and figuratively.

Rape, so passé.

Chris
11-16-2017, 10:50 PM
Why, in your opinion, does Judge Moore deserve to be gone after?

I think enough have come forward to investigate him and bring charges. So too do I think Clinton should be.

Common Sense
11-16-2017, 10:52 PM
The left should turn on any of there own who behave this way. I'm glad the culture is changing.

That being said, Bill Clinton isn't an elected official anymore or planning on being one. There is an argument to be made to focus on him, but I can't help suspect this is a way to shift attention.

Chris
11-16-2017, 10:55 PM
The left should turn on any of there own who behave this way. I'm glad the culture is changing.

That being said, Bill Clinton isn't an elected official anymore or planning on being one. There is an argument to be made to focus on him, but I can't help suspect this is a way to shift attention.

Nor is Weinstein and a host of other men now accused of sexual abuse. That's the culture that's changed. Politics is business as usual, get your opponent any way you can.

Common Sense
11-16-2017, 10:57 PM
Nor is Weinstein and a host of other men now accused of sexual abuse. That's the culture that's changed. Politics is business as usual, get your opponent any way you can.
Fair enough, but it still seems like a pretty simplistic diversionary tactic. It will certainly work on some though.

Chris
11-16-2017, 10:58 PM
Fair enough, but it still seems like a pretty simplistic diversionary tactic. It will certainly work on some though.

Diversionary tactic, not sure I follow. What I have reported in the OP on Clinton, and in another post on Biden, is the left going after their own.

MisterVeritis
11-17-2017, 12:31 AM
I think enough have come forward to investigate him and bring charges. So too do I think Clinton should be.
What, specifically? If I claimed to remember you touching me over my clothes when I was 14, roughly 50 years ago would that be enough to have you investigated?

Chris
11-17-2017, 07:45 AM
What, specifically? If I claimed to remember you touching me over my clothes when I was 14, roughly 50 years ago would that be enough to have you investigated?

Here's a timneline: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/16/timeline-the-accusations-against-roy-moore/?utm_term=.ab0220c06854

Seems to be a pattern there.

Tahuyaman
11-17-2017, 06:20 PM
Oh, my, now the left is going after Bine.

The left turns on Bill Clinton, Biden over behavior toward women (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/16/left-turns-on-bill-clinton-biden-over-behavior-toward-women.html)


The left has, so to speak, hoist its own petard! It's haste to go after Moore, who deserves it, has backfired.


It's a real act of bravery to take a stand two decades later.

MisterVeritis
11-18-2017, 12:18 AM
Here's a timneline: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/16/timeline-the-accusations-against-roy-moore/?utm_term=.ab0220c06854

Seems to be a pattern there.
The pattern is Roy Moore dated women at or above the age of consent. Do you object to men asking women out on dates?

Here is the question you dodged:

If I claimed to remember you touching me over my clothes when I was 14, roughly 50 years ago would that be enough to have you investigated?

Cthulhu
11-18-2017, 12:21 AM
If they ever go after the Clintons, it will be only because they are no longer useful.

Not because they suddenly grew a conscience.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Chris
11-18-2017, 07:17 AM
The pattern is Roy Moore dated women at or above the age of consent. Do you object to men asking women out on dates?

Here is the question you dodged:

If I claimed to remember you touching me over my clothes when I was 14, roughly 50 years ago would that be enough to have you investigated?


Yes, once again, I say investigate him and others.

Tahuyaman
11-18-2017, 01:08 PM
Liberals have to go after Bill Clinton and his last misconduct. How else can they go after others based on similar past conduct?

barb012
11-18-2017, 02:09 PM
I do not understand why women voters could believe Hillary that she was fighting for women's rights when beside the fact of how badly she treated those women with allegations about Bill, when she was a lawyer, she allowed so many rapists to go free and she made their victims feel prosecuted. The feminist movement has lost all credibility since they supported the Clinton's and gave no support to the victims.

The media with liberals saying that times have changed about our attitude towards sexual misconduct to justify their support of Bill Clinton is a complete insult to our intelligence. I also love the statement where they say that now that it is taken seriously that we should all look at Trump's past of sexual misconduct as well as all the others.

It was this last statement that gave me the impression that all of the allegations against so many powerful men is really motivated to set the stage to go after Trump. All of these victims coming forward with these accusations probably are all true but their timing is suspicious of being political motivated. Face it all of these powerful men are sexual predators and everyone that works with them all have known about their behavior for years.

No one is talking about protocols put in place so that no one is fearful of coming forward out of retaliation or lose their jobs to stop this from happening again. No one is talking about all of the women that are subject to sexual misconduct in the workplace that put up with it if they want to keep their jobs. These politicians that are acting shocked and act like this is the first time that they were aware of it are liars.

If this issue was a real concern in politics, then lets see how genuine they are by putting into action news policies that actually protect women. Otherwise if they do nothing, then all of this media coverage is politicians wanting to destroy other politicians to replace them for their own motives.

Peter1469
11-18-2017, 02:11 PM
This, and many liberals are tired of the Clintons and are trying to get them out of politics altogether.

They are going after Hillary now too.


That's the title but what I'm going to focus on in the article is the surprising actions of feminists at the time.

Here's Why Liberals Are Finally Reckoning With Bill Clinton's Alleged Sex Crimes (http://digg.com/2017/bill-clinton-sex-crimes-reckoning)




Follow the link to read what he Atlantic, Vox and Politico have to say.

barb012
11-18-2017, 02:17 PM
This, and many liberals are tired of the Clintons and are trying to get them out of politics altogether.

They are going after Hillary now too.

We don't want them out until they all of the dirty laundry is public and not before as liberals are desperately trying to do right now without public attention to their crimes.

The Xl
11-18-2017, 02:23 PM
25 year olds teachers have been prosecuted for sleeping with students at the age of consent because of the power discrepancy. Bill Clinton was a 50 year old man who was the fucking President of the United States who slept with a 20 year old intern, I'm sure their was no power discrepancy there.

barb012
11-18-2017, 02:25 PM
The government, the justice department, etc. if they really want the respect from the public, they will do their job to restore faith by admitting that they covered for the Clinton's because they were given too much power for far too long that they were afraid for their jobs or their lives by allowing cover-ups in criminal activities.

The public would understand this if they admit it and do everything now to correct it.

Common
11-18-2017, 02:28 PM
If we are going to expose all sex abuse of any kind it has to be done without political influence and slanted reporting or it will flop.

The media should be adult enough to realize this is a sexual predator problem not a democrat or republican problem and deal with it in that manner.

Chris
11-18-2017, 02:34 PM
If we are going to expose all sex abuse of any kind it has to be done without political influence and slanted reporting or it will flop.

The media should be adult enough to realize this is a sexual predator problem not a democrat or republican problem and deal with it in that manner.


The problem I see in the media and some partisans is an assumption of guilt based on accusation. Accusation calls for investigation.