Sen. Jeff Flake saying the GOP is 'toast' if it's the party of Trump and Moore [Archive]

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 12:50 AM

Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) was caught on a hot mic (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/361034-flake-on-hot-mic-gop-toast-if-we-become-the-party-of-trump-moore) Saturday commenting that the Republican Party is "toast" if it becomes the party of President Trump and Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, both of whom are subject (http://theweek.com/speedreads/738362/white-house-defends-trump-against-past-sexual-misconduct-allegations-by-saying-hasnt-admitted-doing-anything-wrong) to multiple serious allegations of sexual misconduct.

Flake was speaking to an Arizona ally, Mesa Mayor John Giles, after a town hall meeting with constituents. "If we become the party of Roy Moore and Donald Trump, we are toast," Flake can be heard saying.

"And I am not throwing smoke at you, but you're the guy that could, just for fun — think about how much fun it would be — just to be the foil, you know, and to point out what an idiot this guy is," Giles replied (https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2017/11/17/mesa-mayor-john-giles-encourages-sen-jeff-flake-run-president-appears-call-president-trump-idiot/876848001/). The mayor appeared to be referring back to a town hall question he asked about Flake running for president in 2020, a reference which would make Trump, rather than Moore, the "idiot" in question.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/738453/hot-mic-caught-sen-jeff-flake-saying-gop-toast-party-trump-moore

When you're right, you're right.

But I know what will happen here- he'll just be called a RINO by our right wing members. You all are seriously that predictable.

Crepitus

11-19-2017, 04:41 AM

Lol, yeah I saw that. Those open mikes can be a bitch.

Common

11-19-2017, 04:42 AM

The GOP is going to get mangled in the midterms but its not going to be trumps fault. Its going to be a dysfunctional cant agree on anything republican congress, that have shitbags, like flake, corker, and mcain in it.

Standing Wolf

11-19-2017, 09:04 AM

The GOP is going to get mangled in the midterms but its not going to be trumps fault. Its going to be a dysfunctional cant agree on anything republican congress, that have $#@!bags, like flake, corker, and mcain in it.

The majority of Republicans in Congress refuse, for the most part, to bow to Trump's whims and wishes...which infuriates and frustrates Trump, which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

As for Trump's chances in 2020, that date may be portentous, in that it may well mark the year many Americans regain their eyesight and good sense and nominate someone - pretty much anyone but Trump - to represent the Republican Party in the general election. Trump's true colors and cluelessness have been on full display for some time now, and if he actually manages to remain in office for the next three years it's doubtful that he's going to get any smarter or more effectual; even most Republicans will be more than ready to replace him with an actual adult man or woman.

Ransom

11-19-2017, 09:09 AM

Trump and Moore?

Trump backed Luther Strange. I remember watching his speech from Huntsville Alabama, I was chilling in Murphy NC just northeast of Chattanooga. Awesome town.

That was the speech where he told the NFL players off. And appropriately so. I remember thinking 'yeah, finally someone with the balls to say it..' Get em, Donald John.

Ransom

11-19-2017, 09:22 AM

The majority of Republicans in Congress refuse, for the most part, to bow to Trump's whims and wishes...which infuriates and frustrates Trump, which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

The majority in Congress(Congress includes the House, Standing Wolf). The House that repealed Obamacare and just this week passed tax reform. It's the Democrats who refuse even one vote, filibuster even a justice Gorsuch, fight every department appointment tooth and nail, and flatly refuse any policy forwarded by Trump and/or Republicans. It doesn't matter if it's a Trump whim or wish....We the People did vote for Trump and did elect a Republican majority to repeal Obamacare, provide tax cuts, increase our military, extend the southern wall started by you Democrats and Obama and enforce existing immigration laws. All of these aren't the whims and wishes of our President, his Constituents voted him in based on these issues. Over regulation. Over taxing. Over spending.

As for Trump's chances in 2020, that date may be portentous, in that it may well mark the year many Americans regain their eyesight and good sense and nominate someone - pretty much anyone but Trump - to represent the Republican Party in the general election. Trump's true colors and cluelessness have been on full display for some time now, and if he actually manages to remain in office for the next three years it's doubtful that he's going to get any smarter or more effectual; even most Republicans will be more than ready to replace him with an actual adult man or woman.

They have been on display for some time. And Republicans do realize.....another Republican doesn't stand a chance in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania. The Democrat will retain their blue wall leapt over by Trump.

TPF forum....Standing Wolf is the Bush, Romney, Establishment Republican voice here. He truly believes...that a Marco Rubio and his cool boots....or a Ted Cruz....or a Jeb Bush.....or a John Kasich....or a John McCain would have won this last election. That one of those candidates would have leapt that blue wall, that a Florida or Ohio or Iowa or a North Carolina would have voted GOP if not for Trump. He truly believes the turnout, the GOP morale, the numbers in the rural areas of our nation would have been the same without a Donald Trump. Standing Wolf can be summarized by two words recently in the state of Virginia. Ed Gillespie.

His post if you take it back 13 months says another two words.....you lose.

Swing and miss analyses you're known for here, Wolf.....but this is a colossal swing or miss.

Say the man gets re-elected in 2020, who should listen to you anymore? Three strikes and you're out, want to pontificate on 2024?

Ransom

11-19-2017, 09:26 AM

The GOP is going to get mangled in the midterms but its not going to be trumps fault. Its going to be a dysfunctional cant agree on anything republican congress, that have $#@!bags, like flake, corker, and mcain in it.
The party in power normally gets crushed in the first mid-term, Bush II the only recent President to avoid that defeat. Trump might have to resort to pen and phone.

But it does remind Republicans we cannot wait. We need to pass these critical bills and make Democrats re-raise taxes....or re-implement Obamacare mandates.

Congress had an opportunity and blew it, I know many Republicans flat out seething at Congress.

Common

11-19-2017, 10:13 AM

The majority of Republicans in Congress refuse, for the most part, to bow to Trump's whims and wishes...which infuriates and frustrates Trump, which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

As for Trump's chances in 2020, that date may be portentous, in that it may well mark the year many Americans regain their eyesight and good sense and nominate someone - pretty much anyone but Trump - to represent the Republican Party in the general election. Trump's true colors and cluelessness have been on full display for some time now, and if he actually manages to remain in office for the next three years it's doubtful that he's going to get any smarter or more effectual; even most Republicans will be more than ready to replace him with an actual adult man or woman.
which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

Nice try at covering up the insult :)

First of all flake is a phony, hes a liberal who ran as a republican because he knew he couldnt win as a democrat, now he cant win as either. Good

As far as most republicans not bowing to trump it has more to do with republicans that cant come to a consensus amongst themselves on anything. You have the Rand Paul and Cruz group thats says no to everything unless its exactly what they want, then you have the worthless McCain, Collins Makurskis that play both ends against the middle, then you have the liberal frauds Flake and Corker all of the above im sure you have lovins for.

Trump only needs one term, he installing convervative judges at a speedy clip, which will slow down the ultra left We hate white men group of professors and antifa and BLM

Im not going to go to much into this, theres no point going back and forth with a full blown one sided liberal only everything who claims everyone else is nothing but trump supporters like thats a dirty word.

Trump being elected was a godsend for america, the alternative was Hillary Clinton half of the dirtiest political duo of the last 27 yrs.

Dont sell trump down the river yet, he just may get re elected.
but until then I hope he writes another 100 exective orders to piss the left off and liberal republicans, I hope he gets to appoint at least one Scotus two would be perfect and I hope he just generally keeps making snowflake idiots yell at the sky.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 10:28 AM

which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

Nice try at covering up the insult :)

First of all flake is a phony, hes a liberal who ran as a republican because he knew he couldnt win as a democrat, now he cant win as either. Good

As far as most republicans not bowing to trump it has more to do with republicans that cant come to a consensus amongst themselves on anything. You have the Rand Paul and Cruz group thats says no to everything unless its exactly what they want, then you have the worthless McCain, Collins Makurskis that play both ends against the middle, then you have the liberal frauds Flake and Corker all of the above im sure you have lovins for.

Trump only needs one term, he installing convervative judges at a speedy clip, which will slow down the ultra left We hate white men group of professors and antifa and BLM

Im not going to go to much into this, theres no point going back and forth with a full blown one sided liberal only everything who claims everyone else is nothing but trump supporters like thats a dirty word.

Trump being elected was a godsend for america, the alternative was Hillary Clinton half of the dirtiest political duo of the last 27 yrs.

Dont sell trump down the river yet, he just may get re elected.
but until then I hope he writes another 100 exective orders to piss the left off and liberal republicans, I hope he gets to appoint at least one Scotus two would be perfect and I hope he just generally keeps making snowflake idiots yell at the sky.
Gee, did I see this coming or what? Jeff Flake is now a liberal because he disagrees with Trump.

Wow. Common, you write some wacky stuff, but this takes it.

BTW, the elections this year should have told you something.

There’s no way you can make the claim that Jeff Flake is a liberal:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Flake

Ravens Fan

11-19-2017, 10:35 AM

http://theweek.com/speedreads/738453/hot-mic-caught-sen-jeff-flake-saying-gop-toast-party-trump-moore

When you're right, you're right.

But I know what will happen here- he'll just be called a RINO by our right wing members. You all are seriously that predictable.

Jeff Flake is part of the establishment, the same establishment that Trump went to war with in his campaign, and which the voters want neutered. Should it be a surprise that he doesn't like Trump? He didn't get his way, so he is quitting and making a big show of it. I think he is right about the GOP being toast though, but it is of their own doing. The Democratic Party isn't looking so good right now either, they had to rig elections to keep their anti-establishment candidate out.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 10:41 AM

Jeff Flake is part of the establishment, the same establishment that Trump went to war with in his campaign, and which the voters want neutered.

Is that why Trump has such a high approval rating?

Ravens Fan

11-19-2017, 10:46 AM

Is that why Trump has such a high approval rating?
I don't pay attention to polls, If I did, I would think Hillary was going to win in a landslide.

Back to the topic though, do you deny that he ran as an anti-establishment candidate? Do you deny that Flake is part of the establishment? Can you refute my points without distracting from my comments?

Mini Me

11-19-2017, 10:47 AM

The majority of Republicans in Congress refuse, for the most part, to bow to Trump's whims and wishes...which infuriates and frustrates Trump, which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

As for Trump's chances in 2020, that date may be portentous, in that it may well mark the year many Americans regain their eyesight and good sense and nominate someone - pretty much anyone but Trump - to represent the Republican Party in the general election. Trump's true colors and cluelessness have been on full display for some time now, and if he actually manages to remain in office for the next three years it's doubtful that he's going to get any smarter or more effectual; even most Republicans will be more than ready to replace him with an actual adult man or woman.

I predict that someone will be annoited to stand in for Trump, and take over the decision making for him. A proxy, if you will.
I think that Trump doesn't like the job, and deep down realizes he is not fit for the office. And would gladly support such a deal.He'd rather be golfing, and pulling off hotel deals and such.

Chris

11-19-2017, 10:51 AM

The party of Trump and Moore vs the party of Clinton and Franken, yea, wonder who's going to win that one.

https://i.snag.gy/djiT8g.jpg

Standing Wolf

11-19-2017, 12:28 PM

That was the speech where he told the NFL players off. And appropriately so. I remember thinking 'yeah, finally someone with the balls to say it..' Get em, Donald John.

A very large part of Trump's appeal for many is his willingness to say things publicly that they have long wanted to say, themselves, or say with a louder voice - whether it was disparaging Mexican immigrants as rapists and drug-dealers, or commenting on some relatively trivial event like the NFL protests (which were confined to only a couple of players until Trump shot his Tweet off and made it a much bigger story). Trump's appeal is similar to why we love certain comic actors, like Groucho Marx and W.C. Fields; their characters always tell the truth as they see it, regardless of circumstances or consequences. Ditto Al Bundy and Homer Simpson - they have neither the intelligence or the filter to keep their mouths shut about things they know nothing about.

President Obama unwisely made public comments - in response to questions from the media, it is worth noting - about a few police matters that turned out to be other than how he seemed to view them at the time; I called him out about that at the time, as did many other of his supporters. Trump does that kind of thing on some subject several times a week. It is glaringly obvious that Trump fails to comprehend the essential difference, in terms of what is expected and necessary in the way of public behavior and pronouncements, between being a corporate CEO, the host of a reality t.v. show, and the President of the United States. The line between the real world and the realm of entertainment and make-believe just gets fuzzier and fuzzier.

nic34

11-19-2017, 12:35 PM

The GOP is going to get mangled in the midterms but its not going to be trumps fault. Its going to be a dysfunctional cant agree on anything republican congress, that have $#@!bags, like flake, corker, and mcain in it.

If you were really an Eisenhower Republican you'd want more like that in Congress to help "drain the swamp"...

Standing Wolf

11-19-2017, 12:42 PM

TPF forum....Standing Wolf is the Bush, Romney, Establishment Republican voice here. He truly believes...that a Marco Rubio and his cool boots....or a Ted Cruz....or a Jeb Bush.....or a John Kasich....or a John McCain would have won this last election. That one of those candidates would have leapt that blue wall, that a Florida or Ohio or Iowa or a North Carolina would have voted GOP if not for Trump. He truly believes the turnout, the GOP morale, the numbers in the rural areas of our nation would have been the same without a Donald Trump. Standing Wolf can be summarized by two words recently in the state of Virginia. Ed Gillespie.

It's apparent that you've discovered how much easier it is to "win" in a discussion when you're permitted (or presume) to argue both sides of it. :rollseyes:

I don't know whether to call your post, quoted above, a lie or simply a childish Straw Man. It's a bit of both, I think. Whatever...

No, in actual fact, I'm not convinced that any of the five individuals you mentioned could have beaten Hilary Clinton, as none of them could have possibly drawn in and captured the imagination of many of the demographics that Trump's candidacy was able to. Cruz might actually have garnered a bit more of the fundamentalist Christian Right vote than Trump did, but not nearly as much of the xenophobe, racist and alt-right vote. Many good, well-intentioned folks voted for Trump, and I have never said otherwise - but, ultimately, they were not the ones who pushed his Electoral College total over the top.

Newpublius

11-19-2017, 12:43 PM

A very large part of Trump's appeal for many is his willingness to say things publicly that they have long wanted to say, themselves, or say with a louder voice - whether it was disparaging Mexican immigrants as rapists and drug-dealers, or commenting on some relatively trivial event like the NFL protests (which were confined to only a couple of players until Trump shot his Tweet off and made it a much bigger story). Trump's appeal is similar to why we love certain comic actors, like Groucho Marx and W.C. Fields; their characters always tell the truth as they see it, regardless of circumstances or consequences. Ditto Al Bundy and Homer Simpson - they have neither the intelligence or the filter to keep their mouths shut about things they know nothing about.

President Obama unwisely made public comments - in response to questions from the media, it is worth noting - about a few police matters that turned out to be other than how he seemed to view them at the time; I called him out about that at the time, as did many other of his supporters. Trump does that kind of thing on some subject several times a week. It is glaringly obvious that Trump fails to comprehend the essential difference, in terms of what is expected and necessary in the way of public behavior and pronouncements, between being a corporate CEO, the host of a reality t.v. show, and the President of the United States. The line between the real world and the realm of entertainment and make-believe just gets fuzzier and fuzzier.

Trump is the ultimate fuck you vote. Not much more to it really. So when Bush, Corker, Flake do their thing and no question they have every right to do their thing, but it shows a lack of insight into their own shortcomings.

Why wasn't a vote for 'Jeb' a 'no brainer'?

From my point of view why shouldn't I infer intent from the results? Shouldn't I?

Did I see the Republicans bring about a smaller limited government?

I'm pretty sure, I didn't see that happen. In fact, I think I saw government grow, a complete lack of fiscal responsibility and the beginning of what is turning into a perpetual state of war.

Can't blame Trump for ANY of that, because after all he wasn't in the government. Turns out he was building useful things -- like buildings.

Hmmm

Standing Wolf

11-19-2017, 01:33 PM

TPF forum....Standing Wolf is the Bush, Romney, Establishment Republican voice here.

P.S. I haven't been registered as a Republican since Gerald Ford was in office, and I haven't voted for the Republican candidate in a Presidential election since 1984.

Mini Me

11-19-2017, 01:39 PM

If you were really an Eisenhower Republican you'd want more like that in Congress to help "drain the swamp"...

Flake and Corker are such a rarity in the GOP nowadays; they have a conscience!

Mini Me

11-19-2017, 01:45 PM

Trump is the ultimate fuck you vote. Not much more to it really. So when Bush, Corker, Flake do their thing and no question they have every right to do their thing, but it shows a lack of insight into their own shortcomings.

Why wasn't a vote for 'Jeb' a 'no brainer'?

From my point of view why shouldn't I infer intent from the results? Shouldn't I?

Did I see the Republicans bring about a smaller limited government?

I'm pretty sure, I didn't see that happen. In fact, I think I saw government grow, a complete lack of fiscal responsibility and the beginning of what is turning into a perpetual state of war.

Can't blame Trump for ANY of that, because after all he wasn't in the government. Turns out he was building useful things -- like buildings.

Hmmm

If you want to know the intent, just look at the results!

Its not at all pretty!

Captdon

11-19-2017, 03:51 PM

Captdon

11-19-2017, 03:53 PM

The majority of Republicans in Congress refuse, for the most part, to bow to Trump's whims and wishes...which infuriates and frustrates Trump, which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

As for Trump's chances in 2020, that date may be portentous, in that it may well mark the year many Americans regain their eyesight and good sense and nominate someone - pretty much anyone but Trump - to represent the Republican Party in the general election. Trump's true colors and cluelessness have been on full display for some time now, and if he actually manages to remain in office for the next three years it's doubtful that he's going to get any smarter or more effectual; even most Republicans will be more than ready to replace him with an actual adult man or woman.

I wasn't here then but I assume you said the same thing about the Obama cult.

Captdon

11-19-2017, 03:55 PM

I predict that someone will be annoited to stand in for Trump, and take over the decision making for him. A proxy, if you will.
I think that Trump doesn't like the job, and deep down realizes he is not fit for the office. And would gladly support such a deal.He'd rather be golfing, and pulling off hotel deals and such.

This is the goofiest idea I've heard on this forum. Someone is going to make Trump's decisions? That's...

Captdon

11-19-2017, 03:57 PM

I don't pay attention to polls, If I did, I would think Hillary was going to win in a landslide.

Back to the topic though, do you deny that he ran as an anti-establishment candidate? Do you deny that Flake is part of the establishment? Can you refute my points without distracting from my comments?

If the polls were right I wouldn't have made money betting on Trump. The margin of error is always the excuse the left uses. It doesn't hold water. She was up by 6 in PA and lost. She was up by 6 in Michigan and lost.

resister

11-19-2017, 04:04 PM

Lol, yeah I saw that. Those open mikes can be a bitch.
Obama knows that :laugh:21101

We always here predictions. Like, no way Trump can win!

Bethere

11-19-2017, 04:07 PM

The majority of Republicans in Congress refuse, for the most part, to bow to Trump's whims and wishes...which infuriates and frustrates Trump, which upsets those who've been sucked into his personality cult and believe he can do no wrong.

As for Trump's chances in 2020, that date may be portentous, in that it may well mark the year many Americans regain their eyesight and good sense and nominate someone - pretty much anyone but Trump - to represent the Republican Party in the general election. Trump's true colors and cluelessness have been on full display for some time now, and if he actually manages to remain in office for the next three years it's doubtful that he's going to get any smarter or more effectual; even most Republicans will be more than ready to replace him with an actual adult man or woman.

Nah, starting in January 2021 they'll pretend that they saw him for what he was all along.

Bethere

11-19-2017, 04:13 PM

The majority in Congress(Congress includes the House, Standing Wolf). The House that repealed Obamacare and just this week passed tax reform. It's the Democrats who refuse even one vote, filibuster even a justice Gorsuch, fight every department appointment tooth and nail, and flatly refuse any policy forwarded by Trump and/or Republicans. It doesn't matter if it's a Trump whim or wish....We the People did vote for Trump and did elect a Republican majority to repeal Obamacare, provide tax cuts, increase our military, extend the southern wall started by you Democrats and Obama and enforce existing immigration laws. All of these aren't the whims and wishes of our President, his Constituents voted him in based on these issues. Over regulation. Over taxing. Over spending.

They have been on display for some time. And Republicans do realize.....another Republican doesn't stand a chance in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania. The Democrat will retain their blue wall leapt over by Trump.

TPF forum....Standing Wolf is the Bush, Romney, Establishment Republican voice here. He truly believes...that a Marco Rubio and his cool boots....or a Ted Cruz....or a Jeb Bush.....or a John Kasich....or a John McCain would have won this last election. That one of those candidates would have leapt that blue wall, that a Florida or Ohio or Iowa or a North Carolina would have voted GOP if not for Trump. He truly believes the turnout, the GOP morale, the numbers in the rural areas of our nation would have been the same without a Donald Trump. Standing Wolf can be summarized by two words recently in the state of Virginia. Ed Gillespie.

His post if you take it back 13 months says another two words.....you lose.

Swing and miss analyses you're known for here, Wolf.....but this is a colossal swing or miss.

Say the man gets re-elected in 2020, who should listen to you anymore? Three strikes and you're out, want to pontificate on 2024?

Your post labels Wolf as one of "you Democrats" and also as "the Bush, Romney, Establishment Republican voice here." How can he be both?

Crepitus

11-19-2017, 04:20 PM

Obama knows that :laugh:21101

We always here predictions. Like, no way Trump can win!

Here's another open mikes comment for ya

https://youtu.be/PwWux5BAczk

resister

11-19-2017, 04:26 PM

Here's another open mikes comment for ya

https://youtu.be/PwWux5BAczk
What was that, like 14 years ago? LOL

For the Russia bandwagon, you don't seem at all bothered by Obama telling a Russian "I can be more flexible after the election"

*Russian* OK, I will relay this information to mr Putin. Want collusion? Looky there!

Don

11-19-2017, 04:26 PM

Some may suffer in the next elections but I doubt it will be republicans. It will be the progressives posing as republicans. The establishment. The ones who pretended to be conservatives when a progressive was president. Now that the progressive president is gone they suddenly "stopped" being conservative. They need to go.

Crepitus

11-19-2017, 04:31 PM

If you want to know the intent, just look at the results!

Its not at all pretty!

Lol.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 05:42 PM

I don't pay attention to polls, If I did, I would think Hillary was going to win in a landslide.

Back to the topic though, do you deny that he ran as an anti-establishment candidate? Do you deny that Flake is part of the establishment? Can you refute my points without distracting from my comments?

How is Flake a part of the establishment? Just because he doesn't like Trump? Hell, if you look at his voting record, it's pretty clear he's very conservative. I posted that link for a reason. Its not as if the guy isn't doing everything he can to vote according to what the base wants. He certainly has done that.

Don't ask me to prove a negative. You say Flake is part of the establishment? Prove it.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 05:43 PM

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 05:57 PM

Trump is the ultimate $#@! you vote. Not much more to it really. So when Bush, Corker, Flake do their thing and no question they have every right to do their thing, but it shows a lack of insight into their own shortcomings.

Why wasn't a vote for 'Jeb' a 'no brainer'?

From my point of view why shouldn't I infer intent from the results? Shouldn't I?

Did I see the Republicans bring about a smaller limited government?

I'm pretty sure, I didn't see that happen. In fact, I think I saw government grow, a complete lack of fiscal responsibility and the beginning of what is turning into a perpetual state of war.

Can't blame Trump for ANY of that, because after all he wasn't in the government. Turns out he was building useful things -- like buildings.

Hmmm
1. Government shrank under Obama, so I'm not sure which alternate reality you live in:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/14/job-shifts-under-obama-fewer-government-workers-more-caregivers-servers-and-temps/

2. Yeah, Trump built buildings and refused to pay his workers:

http://fortune.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-stiff-contractors/

Ravens Fan

11-19-2017, 06:10 PM

How is Flake a part of the establishment? Just because he doesn't like Trump? Hell, if you look at his voting record, it's pretty clear he's very conservative. I posted that link for a reason. Its not as if the guy isn't doing everything he can to vote according to what the base wants. He certainly has done that.

Don't ask me to prove a negative. You say Flake is part of the establishment? Prove it.
Flake has been in Congress since 2000, and is the chair of several committees. He was one of the first "Never Trumpers", ignoring the Republican base, who chose Trump as their candidate. He has done nothing but rip into Trump at every turn, again ignoring the will of his base. In fact, his base doesn't even like him anymore, which is why he is not running again... he can't win.

I never asked you to prove a negative, I asked if you deny his being part of the establishment. Your link never addressed if he was or not, so I am not sure why you threw that at me.

Newpublius

11-19-2017, 06:25 PM

1. Government shrank under Obama, so I'm not sure which alternate reality you live in:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/14/job-shifts-under-obama-fewer-government-workers-more-caregivers-servers-and-temps/

2. Yeah, Trump built buildings and refused to pay his workers:

http://fortune.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-stiff-contractors/

No, government did not shrink under Obama. Your link to 'government workers' is irrelevant. When the government procures an aircraft carrier, those workers don't work for the government.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 06:32 PM

No, government did not shrink under Obama. Your link to 'government workers' is irrelevant. When the government procures an aircraft carrier, those workers don't work for the government.

OK, so you can't dispute the facts in the link. Got it.

hanger4

11-19-2017, 06:34 PM

1. Government shrank under Obama, so I'm not sure which alternate reality you live in:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/14/job-shifts-under-obama-fewer-government-workers-more-caregivers-servers-and-temps/

How so ??

"President Obama will set a record for the size of the basic federal workforce, leaving office with more than 1.4 million people collecting government salaries in the civilian agencies in 2017, according to the budget he delivered to Congress on Tuesday.

It’s a 10 percent jump from the time he took office in 2009"

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/9/federal-workers-hit-record-number-but-growth-slows/

MisterVeritis

11-19-2017, 06:36 PM

This is the goofiest idea I've heard on this forum. Someone is going to make Trump's decisions? That's...
Be gentle with him. He is not right in the head.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 06:43 PM

Flake has been in Congress since 2000, and is the chair of several committees. He was one of the first "Never Trumpers", ignoring the Republican base, who chose Trump as their candidate. He has done nothing but rip into Trump at every turn, again ignoring the will of his base. In fact, his base doesn't even like him anymore, which is why he is not running again... he can't win.

I never asked you to prove a negative, I asked if you deny his being part of the establishment. Your link never addressed if he was or not, so I am not sure why you threw that at me.

The fact that he dislikes Trump should be irrelevant. Has be been voting according to his constituents' wishes? You bet. If disliking Trump is now a policy matter for voters, that's not only sad, but insane.

Ravens Fan

11-19-2017, 06:51 PM

The fact that he dislikes Trump should be irrelevant. Has be been voting according to his constituents' wishes? You bet. If disliking Trump is now a policy matter for voters, that's not only sad, but insane.
He is the one who made it relevant by, in his own words "telling anyone who will listen" about how much he hates trump. For me, it is his tenure that makes him part of the establishment, the man holds a lot of power within the party, by virtue of his power in Congress. The fact that he speaks out about Trump so much, just adds to the impression that he is establishment, considering that Trump ran against the establishment, and guess who popped up?

And you ask if he has been voting according to his constituant's wishes, I would say it doesn't look that way, if he cant even win a primary election as an incumbent.

leekohler2

11-19-2017, 06:56 PM

He is the one who made it relevant by, in his own words "telling anyone who will listen" about how much he hates trump. For me, it is his tenure that makes him part of the establishment, the man holds a lot of power within the party, by virtue of his power in Congress. The fact that he speaks out about Trump so much, just adds to the impression that he is establishment, considering that Trump ran against the establishment, and guess who popped up?

And you ask if he has been voting according to his constituant's wishes, I would say it doesn't look that way, if he cant even win a primary election as an incumbent.
Well, you might want to look at his voting record. Not sure how conservatives could disagree with it.

hanger4

11-19-2017, 06:57 PM

OK, so you can't dispute the facts in the link. Got it.

It, you were debunked in post #39.

Ravens Fan

11-19-2017, 06:58 PM

Well, you might want to look at his voting record. Not sure how conservatives could disagree with it.

I can't speak to that, except to say that when someone is doing a good job, I do not tend to fire them. But that's just me.

Common

11-19-2017, 07:01 PM

Common

11-19-2017, 07:02 PM

I can't speak to that, except to say that when someone is doing a good job, I do not tend to fire them. But that's just me.
His constituents soundly rejected him and thats why he resigned after one term, he had no chance at re election. He couldnt win the primary challenge

Grokmaster

11-19-2017, 07:22 PM

http://theweek.com/speedreads/738453/hot-mic-caught-sen-jeff-flake-saying-gop-toast-party-trump-moore

When you're right, you're right.

But I know what will happen here- he'll just be called a RINO by our right wing members. You all are seriously that predictable.
Says the RINO being kicked to the curb by his own constituents...

A little "reminder":

Even AFTER the "MASSIVE DEM WINS!!!!!!" <sniker!> a couple of weeks ago, the GOP controls THIRTY TWO STATE LEGISLATURES, with 17 VETO PROOF MAJORITIES in BOTH HOUSES, as well as THIRTY THREE GOVERNORSHIPS. Those are both out of 50 total, obviously. Do the math. Der...

Flake and the Losercrats are who are "doomed"....I love how the democrats, with the least political power that they have had SINCE 1931, keep trying to pretend that they are "kicking ass".

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