Obama to GOP: I’m done negotiating with myself

[Cigar]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2012/11/obama-gesturing-presser.jpg

We’re seeing two things here. One is that the negotiations aren’t going well. When one side begins leaking the other side’s proposals, that’s typically a bad sign. The other is that Republicans are frustrated at the new Obama they’re facing: The Obama who refuses to negotiate with himself.

That’s what you’re really seeing in this “proposal.” Previously, Obama’s pattern had been to offer plans that roughly tracked where he thought the compromise should end up. The White House’s belief was that by being solicitous in their policy proposals, they would win goodwill on the other side, and even if they didn’t, the media would side with them, realizing they’d sought compromise and been rebuffed. They don’t believe that anymore.

Perhaps the key lesson the White House took from the last couple of years is this: Don’t negotiate with yourself. If Republicans want to cut Medicare, let them propose the cuts. If they want to raise revenue through tax reform, let them identify the deductions. If they want deeper cuts in discretionary spending, let them settle on a number. And, above all, if they don’t like the White House’s preferred policies, let them propose their own. That way, if the White House eventually does give in and agree to some of their demands, Republicans will feel like they got one over on the president. A compromise isn’t measured by what you offer, it’s measured by what the other side feels they made you concede.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/29/obama-to-gop-i-wont-negotiate-with-myself/

[roadmaster]

If Obama would stop giving free money, education and hospital stay to illegals, he may be able to balance the budget and still raise taxes on the wealthy but wouldn't have to but so much so we won't fall into a recession. Messing with SS of the elders doesn't sit well with me either.

[Cigar]

If Obama would stop giving free money, education and hospital stay to illegals, he may be able to balance the budget and still raise taxes on the wealthy but wouldn't have to but so much so we won't fall into a recession. Messing with SS of the elders doesn't sit well with me either.

Can you please provide the ink to where President Obama is giving free money, eduction and hospital stay to illegals?

thank you

[nic34]

Was just asked for proof of citizenship at the EM in Phx a few weeks back. It's something they do.

Sorry.

[patrickt]

President Obama has to negotiate with himself since he won't negotiate with anyone else. Actually, he doesn't understand the word. He's quite willing to negotiate but raising taxes, increasing spending, and not reducing the debt one penny is his non-negotiable position.

I know it makes Cigar giggle but dancing around the room, shaking your butt, and saying, "I won," isn't what's called negotiating.

I know Cigar missed it but he wants to spend $1,000,000,000,000 buying votes from people with student loans. And, how's that cutting the deficit business going? Oh, right, another lie.

But, Lena Dunham was right. Voting for Obama is like getting fucked.

They've found that Barack Obama is Irish and his mother is black so miracles can happen. I wonder if Lena Dunham is related to President Obama's black mother's family.

[Chris]

Obama to GOP: I’m done negotiating with myself

From empty suit to...

http://i.snag.gy/gkNSr.jpg

[Peter1469]

Obama started the current round of negotiations having Tim Geithner double their previous position of tax increases (up to $1.6T) and asked for Congress to eliminate the debt limit.

I am not sure how the GOP could react to that, except to say no.

[nic34]

GOP - tax raisers on the middle class and working people.

Good luck in '14

[Peter1469]

GOP - tax raisers on the middle class and working people.

Good luck in '14

The GOP is against raising taxes on anyone. Not sure what you are smoking.

[nic34]

Tell it to Boehner...

[Chris]

Tell it to Boehner...

Why don't you tell us what he's said.

[Cigar]

From empty suit to...

http://i.snag.gy/gkNSr.jpg


But he sure as hell has a WHITE-HOUSE :afro:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4527171248851178&pid=1.7&w=249&h=134&c=7&rs=1

[nic34]

Obama "has to get serious," Boehner told reporters following his discussion with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. "It's very clear what kind of spending cuts need to occur, but we have no idea what the White House is willing to do."

Senate Democrats said Boehner had it backward because Obama has made his positions clear -- especially his call to extend middle-class tax cuts while allowing rates on the wealthiest 2% of Americans to return to higher rates of the 1990s.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/29/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html

[Chris]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/29/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html

That does not show Boehner asking to raise middle or working class taxes.

[truthmatters]

taxes on the wealthy are going up.


No matter how much the republican party members struggles against the tar in their tar pit, the republican dinos will eventually sink off the face of the earth and sanity will again rule the day

[patrickt]

GOP - tax raisers on the middle class and working people.

Good luck in '14

Nic34, liar. Nic34 and others on the left raise taxes on everyone, raise spending that just taxpayers have to pay for, and raise both the deficit and the debt.

[patrickt]

Tell it to Boehner...

Sorry, we could tell it to President Obama but he shuns Americans.

[Cigar]

sorry, we could tell it to president obama but he shuns americans.

link?

[Chris]

taxes on the wealthy are going up.


No matter how much the republican party members struggles against the tar in their tar pit, the republican dinos will eventually sink off the face of the earth and sanity will again rule the day

Correction: taxes on the wealthy may be going up. My guess is we'll go over the cliff first.

[truthmatters]

and then taxes will raise on the top tier

[truthmatters]

Then in two weeks a new more dem leaning congress will conviene and laeve the top tax rates up and reduce the middle and lower ones

[Chris]

and then taxes will raise on the top tier

Where do you find facts in the future, matters?

[Chris]

Then in two weeks a new more dem leaning congress will conviene and laeve the top tax rates up and reduce the middle and lower ones

What, is there an election coming up in your fantasy world?

[truthmatters]

on jan 20 in 2013 a new congress takes it seats.

Fewer of those people are republicans

[truthmatters]

elections have consequences

[Chris]

on jan 20 in 2013 a new congress takes it seats.

Fewer of those people are republicans

Fewer does not imply Dem leaning.

[truthmatters]

when we go off the "cliff" all taxes will go up.


when the new congress takes its seats they can retroactively undo anything that went over the cliff.

That means they can LEAVE the military cuts and the top tier taxes and change the middle and low rate taxes back down.


The right has nothing to bargain with

[truthmatters]

60 % of Americans want the top teir taxes to go up.


You wont win elections protecting the wealthy anymore

[nic34]

You wont win elections protecting the wealthy anymore



You speak truth, truthmatters...

[Chris]

when we go off the "cliff" all taxes will go up.


when the new congress takes its seats they can retroactively undo anything that went over the cliff.

That means they can LEAVE the military cuts and the top tier taxes and change the middle and low rate taxes back down.


The right has nothing to bargain with

The House is still Republican.

[truthmatters]

I stick to verifiable facts to base my insights from.

It makes it easy to speak the truth when you value the truth.

[Chris]

You speak truth, truthmatters...

But she lies that I'm Republican, and that Congress will lean Dem, therefore she's truthy.

[truthmatters]

The House is still Republican.

with fewer republicans.

it will be easier to peal off a few who refused to sign the Norquist pledge.


you do UNDERSTAND why they refuse to sign it right?

[Chris]

I stick to verifiable facts to base my insights from.

It makes it easy to speak the truth when you value the truth.

The facts say the House is still Republican. So what facts did you base your claim on, matters?

[truthmatters]

why do you pretend the election we just had didnt change things?

[truthmatters]

and here you are carrying the republicans water YET again

[Chris]

I stick to verifiable facts to base my insights from.

It makes it easy to speak the truth when you value the truth.

Truth doesn't depend on subjective valuation, matters. It depends on facts and logic, both of which you lack when you claim a new "dem leaning congress".

[Chris]

and here you are carrying the republicans water YET again

Why do you lie?

[Chris]

why do you pretend the election we just had didnt change things?

Why do you make things up?

[truthmatters]

the senate has gained dem seats.

the house has gained dem seats.


the inciming Rs are refusing to pray ot Norquist.


pretend away mr "Im not a republican"

[Chris]

with fewer republicans.

it will be easier to peal off a few who refused to sign the Norquist pledge.


you do UNDERSTAND why they refuse to sign it right?

That doesn't make them dem leaning, matters.

[truthmatters]

60 % of Americans want the top tax teir to rise.


That means only a few Rs can win by being obstructionists in the midterms

[Cigar]

http://i49.tinypic.com/2upfkwh.jpg

[Chris]

the senate has gained dem seats.

the house has gained dem seats.


the inciming Rs are refusing to pray ot Norquist.


pretend away mr "Im not a republican"

Lie away, matters.

None of what you say makes a dem leaning congress.

[truthmatters]

The republican party is in BIG trouble.

the majority of Americans already siad they will BLAME the republicans IF we go off the cliff.


They will get all the blame and NON of the credit.

they did it to themselves

[Cigar]

The republican party is in BIG trouble.

the majority of Americans already siad they will BLAME the republicans IF we go off the cliff.


They will get all the blame and NON of the credit.

they did it to themselves

They don't care about Americans and America ... they care about their Big Money and Re-Electrons

[Chris]

They don't care about Americans and America ... they care about their Big Money and Re-Electrons

Are you talking about Democrats?

[truthmatters]

They don't care about Americans and America ... they care about their Big Money and Re-Electrons



yeap they are paid for by the wealthy.

just look at where their money comes from

[Chris]

yeap they are paid for by the wealthy.

just look at where their money comes from

That is true of both parties.

[truthmatters]

nope


Obama has more money from the little guy.


dems the facts even if you dont like it because it makes it harder for you to defend the republican party even when you claim you are not a republican.

why are you carrying their water?

[Peter1469]

taxes on the wealthy are going up.


No matter how much the republican party members struggles against the tar in their tar pit, the republican dinos will eventually sink off the face of the earth and sanity will again rule the day

What happens if tax revenues go down? They did in the UK when they increased taxes on the rich. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9707029/Two-thirds-of-millionaires-left-Britain-to-avoid-50p-tax-rate.html

[Awryly]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2012/11/obama-gesturing-presser.jpg

We’re seeing two things here. One is that the negotiations aren’t going well. When one side begins leaking the other side’s proposals, that’s typically a bad sign. The other is that Republicans are frustrated at the new Obama they’re facing: The Obama who refuses to negotiate with himself.

That’s what you’re really seeing in this “proposal.” Previously, Obama’s pattern had been to offer plans that roughly tracked where he thought the compromise should end up. The White House’s belief was that by being solicitous in their policy proposals, they would win goodwill on the other side, and even if they didn’t, the media would side with them, realizing they’d sought compromise and been rebuffed. They don’t believe that anymore.

Perhaps the key lesson the White House took from the last couple of years is this: Don’t negotiate with yourself. If Republicans want to cut Medicare, let them propose the cuts. If they want to raise revenue through tax reform, let them identify the deductions. If they want deeper cuts in discretionary spending, let them settle on a number. And, above all, if they don’t like the White House’s preferred policies, let them propose their own. That way, if the White House eventually does give in and agree to some of their demands, Republicans will feel like they got one over on the president. A compromise isn’t measured by what you offer, it’s measured by what the other side feels they made you concede.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/29/obama-to-gop-i-wont-negotiate-with-myself/

Excellent Washington Post analysis. The GOP is in a bind. If it continues to obstruct to protect its small over-privileged elite, the public will soon turn on them. But, to do otherwise, it has to abandon Norquist and the Tea Party.

Obama's proposals have put them on the rack. Where they deserve to be.

[Awryly]

What happens if tax revenues go down? They did in the UK when they increased taxes on the rich. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9707029/Two-thirds-of-millionaires-left-Britain-to-avoid-50p-tax-rate.html

What happens if they go up? As they did under Clinton.

[Peter1469]

What happens if they go up? As they did under Clinton.

Tax revenues were slightly up under Clinton because of the strong economy inherited from the Reagan tax polices.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Even Bill Clinton says you should not increase taxes in a bad economy.

[Awryly]

Tax revenues were slightly up under Clinton because of the strong economy inherited from the Reagan tax polices.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Even Bill Clinton says you should not increase taxes in a bad economy.

But the economy is on the mend.

And has it occurred to you that if you reduce the income gap by spreading wealth more evenly, you will also be able to spread taxation more evenly?

[nic34]

Tax revenues were slightly up under Clinton because of the strong economy inherited from the Reagan tax polices.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Even Bill Clinton says you should not increase taxes in a bad economy.


Reagan RAISED taxes also...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-16/why-reagan-raised-taxes-and-we-should-too-echoes.html

[Mainecoons]

That wasn't in a bad economy, genius. That was after his policies reversed the Carter recession, in his second term.

Do you EVER check your facts before you post?

BTW, there are more trees and deer and most other wildlife now than 100 years ago. More emotionalism sans knowledge.

[Chris]

Reagan RAISED taxes also...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-16/why-reagan-raised-taxes-and-we-should-too-echoes.html

From your link:


With the stroke of a pen, Reagan had reduced individual tax rates by 23 percent, slashed the top marginal rate from 70 percent to 50 percent, and dramatically accelerated the pace at which corporations could write off new investments. Altogether, Reagan gave taxpayers about $143 billion in tax relief over each of the next four years.

And then -- just two months later -- he asked for about a third of it back.

If you see the situation as analogous can you point out where Obama has taken the first step?

[Mainecoons]

Actually, Obama has asked for about one third of the Bush tax cuts back. And we should give it to him in return for Simpson Bowles spending cuts.

Watch what happens if this reasonable deal, a product of HIS OWN DEFICIT COMMISSION were to be offered.

[nic34]

No, Maine, it's all or nothing. Didn't you hear Norquist? Let's see how long Boehner lasts.... (not a joke)

[Mainecoons]

Yep, it is all or nothing on both sides. Wanna bet who would be nothing if that deal was offered to Obama?

:grin:

[nic34]

Nope.

[Peter1469]

But the economy is on the mend.

And has it occurred to you that if you reduce the income gap by spreading wealth more evenly, you will also be able to spread taxation more evenly?


The economy is not on the mend. We are on the verge of collapse.

You say reduce the income gap as if there is a fixed income pie. There is not. Research fractional reserve banking. Make your own money and keep your hands out of my wallet.

[nic34]

The economy is not on the mend. We are on the verge of collapse.


You need to get out more....

[Agravan]

nope


Obama has more money from the little guy.



And illegal foreign donors...

[Peter1469]

You need to get out more....

Obama will push our official debt to over $20T.

Our unofficial debt is over $220 T.

Our top 5 banks have ~$200T in derivatives hidden away. If the mark to market rules come back, those banks will go insolvent so fast your eyeballs will explode.

But you should continue your life without this knowledge. Carry on.

[nic34]

Obama will push our official debt to over $20T.

Our unofficial debt is over $220 T.

Our top 5 banks have ~$200T in derivatives hidden away. If the mark to market rules come back, those banks will go insolvent so fast your eyeballs will explode.

But you should continue your life without this knowledge. Carry on.

Funny you should bring up "knowlege".


Republicans blame the "Democratic Congress" for their debt increases. The trouble is that Congress was only Democratic 8 out of the 20 years, and in those 8 years, on average, Congress passed smaller budgets than the Republican presidents requested. The specifics are all right here: It Was the Republicans (http://thepoliticalforums.com/p/57.html).

http://zfacts.com/p/1195.html

As you were.

[Peter1469]

Your website is incorrect in the total debt under Reagan Bush. That would be ~$10T. And much of it from a Dem controlled congress.

Then your boy Obama comes along and adds $6T.

[nic34]

Thanks to GW Bush's 2 wars, unfunded mandates and the Republican recession.... and if not for my BOY it would be 20T.

[Awryly]

Obama will push our official debt to over $20T.

Our unofficial debt is over $220 T.

Our top 5 banks have ~$200T in derivatives hidden away. If the mark to market rules come back, those banks will go insolvent so fast your eyeballs will explode.

But you should continue your life without this knowledge. Carry on.
As I would expect you need to in order to satisfy your ideology, you are conflating the mainstream economy with (a) the private debt banks have brought on themselves (which you have not demonstrated to the tune of $200T but which I would not be surprised to find is not too inaccurate), and (b) government debt which has largely stabilised and is the subject of the current yawning exercise to reduce it.

[GrumpyDog]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zz5vHmv0gno/T_w1bgga-YI/AAAAAAAAAuQ/fbCzuFPoL3Y/s320/elephantcrocodiles.jpg

Not sure who is going to win, but it sure has been an entertaining spectacle so far. I suspect the little Tea Party elephant will get trampled upon, no matter what the final end result.

[Peter1469]

As I would expect you need to in order to satisfy your ideology, you are conflating the mainstream economy with (a) the private debt banks have brought on themselves (which you have not demonstrated to the tune of $200T but which I would not be surprised to find is not too inaccurate), and (b) government debt which has largely stabilised and is the subject of the current yawning exercise to reduce it.

These numbers are facts. They are not partisan. And the official debt is not "largely stabilized" unless you consider ~$20T by the end of Obama's regime to be "largely stabilized."

[Awryly]

These numbers are facts. They are not partisan. And the official debt is not "largely stabilized" unless you consider ~$20T by the end of Obama's regime to be "largely stabilized."

So what, exactly, do you think Obama is trying to do?

Does he have a devious plan to spiral the debt by pretending to reduce it?

[Peter1469]

So what, exactly, do you think Obama is trying to do?

Does he have a devious plan to spiral the debt by pretending to reduce it?

His plans don't reduce the debt nor the deficit. His tax plans will likely cause the government to take in less tax revenue.

[Chris]

Neither, btw, do the GOP plans.

[Chris]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zz5vHmv0gno/T_w1bgga-YI/AAAAAAAAAuQ/fbCzuFPoL3Y/s320/elephantcrocodiles.jpg

Not sure who is going to win, but it sure has been an entertaining spectacle so far. I suspect the little Tea Party elephant will get trampled upon, no matter what the final end result.

Tea Parties are not Republican. Tea Parties are...

http://i.snag.gy/I2gko.jpg

[Awryly]

Tea Parties are not Republican. Tea Parties are...



Huh? The Tea Party won Republicans the House in 2010. They vote in lock-step. They have an iron grip over GOP policy. They ran a VP candidate. Norquist is framing the GOP debate.

What are you talking about now?

[Chris]

Huh? The Tea Party won Republicans the House in 2010. They vote in lock-step. They have an iron grip over GOP policy. The ran a VP candidate.

What are you talking about now?

The Tea Parties were Reps worst nightmare and unseated a number of them, they have no grip on the GOP, and did not run a VIP which is impossible. Where do you get your information? A crackerjacks box?

[Awryly]

The Tea Parties were Reps worst nightmare and unseated a number of them, they have no grip on the GOP, and did not run a VIP which is impossible. Where do you get your information? A crackerjacks box?

You do realise that "worst nightmare" and "no grip" are sort of contradictory?

[Chris]

You do realise that "worst nightmare" and "no grip" are sort of contradictory?

Contradictory to the opinions you repeat from liberal rags, yes.

[Awryly]

Contradictory to the opinions you repeat from liberal rags, yes.


Um. He said it.

[Chris]

Um. He said it.

It's really difficult to engage someone in discussion who is so dishonest as to deny what he posted only several posts ago:


The Tea Party won Republicans the House in 2010. They vote in lock-step. They have an iron grip over GOP policy. They ran a VP candidate. Norquist is framing the GOP debate.

I assume there's only one of you, awryly, are do you work as a team? That would account for a lot.

[Awryly]

It's really difficult to engage someone in discussion who is so dishonest as to deny what he posted only several posts ago:

I assume there's only one of you, awryly, are do you work as a team? That would account for a lot.

It's even more difficult to engage with self-declared cretins.

And yes, I am supported by the might of the Ministry of Tourism and American Affairs. :boobs:

[Chris]

It's even more difficult to engage with self-declared cretins.

Nice lie, awryly. You can't even get insults right.

[Awryly]

Nice lie, awryly. You can't even get insults right.

I try. I try. :afro:

[nic34]

Awry not backing down from Mr. Obtuse... nice show...

[Chris]

Awry not backing down from Mr. Obtuse... nice show...

I see Mr Ad Hom has joined the discussion.

[patrickt]

And, President Obama told Michelle he was through playing with himself. Michelle responded with, "In your dreams, sucker."