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Cigar
11-30-2012, 11:44 AM
Obama will send season's greetings to Republicans from a Toy Factory :rofl:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-50b8d6ee/turbine/la-pn-obama-toy-factory-20121130-001/600


President Obama heads to a toy factory in Pennsylvania on Friday with a Christmastime message for Republicans: Extend the middle-class tax cuts or risk hurting businesses such as The Rodon Group, the maker of Tinkertoy and Angry Birds building sets.

With Obama’s televised trek to the factory floor in Hatfield, the message war between the two sides goes visual and sharpens with the seasonal competition for consumers’ attention. Obama is expected to reiterate that any deal with Congress must ask the wealthiest to pay higher tax rates.

House Republicans countered with a public relations campaign of their own, tapping the president and chief executive of Gorski Engineering, a small business located about 15 miles from the president’s stop, where the owner is concerned about possible tax hikes.

“The president is heading to Pennsylvania today in full campaign mode to make the argument to the American people that tax-rate increases are the only solution to our nation’s economic woes,” said Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), the majority whip. “He’s wrong. What our country needs is a boost in economic growth so our job creators, like Jerry Gorski, can start hiring again. Tax rate increases don't stimulate economic growth. They drain small businesses of the capital they need to grow and expand their operation.”

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-toy-factory-20121130,0,1109572.story

nic34
11-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Tax rate increases don't stimulate economic growth.

I hope the reps keep going on this. Works so well for 'em....

KC
11-30-2012, 02:24 PM
I hope the reps keep going on this. Works so well for 'em....

Whether it's working for them and whether they're right is a separate issue. Do you think raising rates do stimulate economic growth?

nic34
11-30-2012, 02:35 PM
Rasing rates at the TOP, yes.

Throughout the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.

Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s; today it is 15%.

The real GDP growth rate averaged 4.2% and real per capita GDP increased annually by 2.4% in the 1950s. In the 2000s, the average real GDP growth rate was 1.7% and real per capita GDP increased annually by less than 1%.

More:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

Chris
11-30-2012, 02:45 PM
Rasing rates at the TOP, yes.

Throughout the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.

Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s; today it is 15%.

The real GDP growth rate averaged 4.2% and real per capita GDP increased annually by 2.4% in the 1950s. In the 2000s, the average real GDP growth rate was 1.7% and real per capita GDP increased annually by less than 1%.

More:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

Demonstrate causal rather than casual relationship.

Cigar
11-30-2012, 02:49 PM
Whether it's working for them and whether they're right is a separate issue. Do you think raising rates do stimulate economic growth?



Here's a better question, did lowering rates over the last Decade stimulate growth?

Chris
11-30-2012, 02:49 PM
Hell, if you don't cherry pick data, you can't even show correlation:

http://i.snag.gy/h5T8w.jpg

KC
11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Rasing rates at the TOP, yes.

Throughout the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.

Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s; today it is 15%.

The real GDP growth rate averaged 4.2% and real per capita GDP increased annually by 2.4% in the 1950s. In the 2000s, the average real GDP growth rate was 1.7% and real per capita GDP increased annually by less than 1%.

More:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

The reality is that no one paid the 90% rate. Most top income earners actually paid around 50% of their income. Like Chris says, this doesn't demonstrate a causal relationship, only a correlation.

Correlation does not equal causation.

nic34
11-30-2012, 03:27 PM
If they only paid 50% then, what do you think is being paid today? No one drives the actual speed limit either.

Did you not learn anything from 8 years of Bush's tax cuts?

KC
11-30-2012, 03:33 PM
If they only paid 50% then, what do you think is being paid today? No one drives the actual speed limit either.

Did you not learn anything from 8 years of Bush's tax cuts?

The only lesson to be learned from Bush tax cuts is that after 2003, when the second round of cuts went into effect, revenue increased. The government decided to take a smaller slice of a larger pie. That slice happens to be much larger than it was back when the pie was smaller.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IxLLP4SSN_4/TuZ2DIgTGBI/AAAAAAAAGI4/cBrtIdlgBs8/s1600/Federal+Revenues.jpg

http://scottgrannis.blogspot.com/2011/12/federal-finances-update.html

Cigar
11-30-2012, 03:35 PM
The only lesson to be learned from Bush tax cuts is that after 2003, when the second round of cuts went into effect, revenue increased. The government decided to take a smaller slice of a larger pie. That slice happens to be much larger than it was back when the pie was smaller.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IxLLP4SSN_4/TuZ2DIgTGBI/AAAAAAAAGI4/cBrtIdlgBs8/s1600/Federal+Revenues.jpg

http://scottgrannis.blogspot.com/2011/12/federal-finances-update.html




I'll give you two (2) guesses what wasn't on the Books!

nic34
11-30-2012, 05:16 PM
Something bothersome about Friedman's logic.

Regulations seek to prevent harm before it occurs-Friedman says let the harm happen and we'll pay you for it. If you are the worker who lost a limb, parent who loses a child or homeowner whose water is poisoned-would you want prevention or some money after the fact?

KC
11-30-2012, 05:58 PM
Something bothersome about Friedman's logic.

Regulations seek to prevent harm before it occurs-Friedman says let the harm happen and we'll pay you for it. If you are the worker who lost a limb, parent who loses a child or homeowner whose water is poisoned-would you want prevention or some money after the fact?

I'm a bit confused where Friedman and regulatory infrastructure fits into this thread.

Chris
11-30-2012, 06:01 PM
I'm a bit confused where Friedman and regulatory infrastructure fits into this thread.

Yea but it is a nice bit of emotionalism.

Peter1469
11-30-2012, 07:12 PM
Rasing rates at the TOP, yes.

Throughout the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%.

Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s; today it is 15%.

The real GDP growth rate averaged 4.2% and real per capita GDP increased annually by 2.4% in the 1950s. In the 2000s, the average real GDP growth rate was 1.7% and real per capita GDP increased annually by less than 1%.

More:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

Now go look at the effective tax rates for the years cited above....

Peter1469
11-30-2012, 07:15 PM
Here's a better question, did lowering rates over the last Decade stimulate growth?

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Unemployment rates indicate the strength of the economy. So to answer your question, yes, the tax cuts did work. Of course the housing bust and the financial crashes overcome that strength.

GrumpyDog
12-01-2012, 11:54 AM
Merry Fng Holiday to all the illegitimate mothers too.

GrumpyDog
12-01-2012, 11:59 AM
Why the hell is my post not being posted?

Captain Obvious
12-01-2012, 12:00 PM
Had your coffee yet?

Chris
12-01-2012, 12:01 PM
Why the hell is my post not being posted?

It posted. Three times, you deleted two. Bee patient, refresh browser.

GrumpyDog
12-01-2012, 12:02 PM
You Fng Hackers can go F yourselves. POS Mothers

GrumpyDog
12-01-2012, 12:07 PM
Gonna keep posting ##$%@ until I see something on my screen or in the forum

GrumpyDog
12-01-2012, 12:08 PM
Shit isnt working, so WTF?

Chris
12-01-2012, 12:13 PM
Everyone else can see your shit. Is there fuel in the tank? Try rebooting.

Peter1469
12-01-2012, 01:01 PM
clear your cash

Mainecoons
12-01-2012, 01:45 PM
That's "cache."

Chris
12-01-2012, 01:46 PM
Right, clear your cache and send your cash. :-$

Agravan
12-01-2012, 05:11 PM
Not to worry, obama will clear your cash for you.

GrumpyDog
12-01-2012, 09:19 PM
Check!

Chris
12-01-2012, 11:00 PM
Check will do. Put lots of zeros on it, put it in the mail.