The Age of Outrage

[Chris]

Jonathan Haid talks about the postmodern decay of today's universities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe6-QSnQTdg

Here's an excerpt fromm THE AGE OF OUTRAGE:


Today’s identity politics . . . teaches the exact opposite of what we think a liberal arts education should be. When I was at Yale in the 1980s, I was given so many tools for understanding the world. By the time I graduated, I could think about things as a utilitarian or as a Kantian, as a Freudian or a behaviorist, as a computer scientist or as a humanist. I was given many lenses to apply to any given question or problem.

But what do we do now? Many students are given just one lens—power. Here’s your lens, kid. Look at everything through this lens. Everything is about power. Every situation is analyzed in terms of the bad people acting to preserve their power and privilege over the good people. This is not an education. This is induction into a cult. It’s a fundamentalist religion. It’s a paranoid worldview that separates people from each other and sends them down the road to alienation, anxiety and intellectual impotence. . . .

Let’s return to Jefferson’s vision: “For here we are not afraid to follow the truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error as long as reason is left free to combat it.” Well if Jefferson were to return today and tour our nation’s top universities, he would be shocked at the culture of fear, the [in]tolerance of error, and the shackles placed on reason. . . .

I am actually pessimistic about America’s future, but let me state very clearly that I have very low confidence in my pessimism. Because until now, it has always been wrong to bet against America, and it’s probably wrong to do so now. My libertarian friends constantly remind me that people are resourceful—this is what many people forget. When problems get more severe, people get more inventive, and that is actually happening right now.

[Dr. Who]

I think that universities go through cycles of radical social consciousness alternating with cycles of social apathy.

[Common]

Im sorry folks I think Universities have become sewers that want to over ride parents and mold students to be what they want them to be and what they want them to think.

Its very much the same ideology of Scientology

[Chris]

I think that universities go through cycles of radical social consciousness alternating with cycles of social apathy.

Should they be either? Shouldn't they be in the business of education and not pushing social agendas?

[Dr. Who]

Should they be either? Shouldn't they be in the business of education and not pushing social agendas?

It's been happening since the days of Plato.

[Chris]

It's been happening since the days of Plato.

Which is the problem of public education. Plato was a statist and pushed that agenda.

[jimmyz]

We are not taking into account the mind as a dissenter. Some indoctrination is seen for what it is, and the young mind will counter it. I am bullish on the future using my children as guideposts.

[Bethere]

Should they be either? Shouldn't they be in the business of education and not pushing social agendas?

There are over 2600 universities and colleges in this country.

You've attended, what, one of them? 2? 20?

How are you or anyone else in position to make sweeping judgements about all of them based on such a limited sample size?

You MIGHT have enough experience to make such statements about ONE department at ONE of those 2600
schools.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/a-23-2005-05-11-voa1-83125492/124600.html&ved=0ahUKEwjY47yWwN7XAhUDMyYKHQfPCTsQFggoMAE&usg=AOvVaw3bWtpD1H2jsW5eUuOxvbVr

Thanks for listening.

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says...

... womens always got dey's panties...

... inna bundle `bout sumpin'.

[Chris]

There are over 2600 universities and colleges in this country.

You've attended, what, one of them? 2? 20?

How are you or anyone else in position to make sweeping judgements about all of them based on such a limited sample size?

You MIGHT have enough experience to make such statements about ONE department at ONE of those 2600
schools.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/a-23-2005-05-11-voa1-83125492/124600.html&ved=0ahUKEwjY47yWwN7XAhUDMyYKHQfPCTsQFggoMAE&usg=AOvVaw3bWtpD1H2jsW5eUuOxvbVr

Thanks for listening.


And you just argued against you yourself having any opinion.

Haidt has the experience to make the statements he does.

[Bethere]

And you just argued against you yourself having any opinion.

Haidt has the experience to make the statements he does.

No, he doesn't.

[Chris]

No, he doesn't.

On what grounds do you dismiss his expertise in this area?

[Bethere]

On what grounds do you dismiss his expertise in this area? He attended 3 universities and worked at another. That leaves 2596 universities that he is just guessing about.

[Chris]

He attended 3 universities and worked at another. That leaves 2596 universities that he is just guessing about.

Are you aware of the work he does at all? Much of it involves going to different universities and talking and gather data there. Your answer indicates you do not.

[waltky]

possum likes dat dancin' bear.

[Tahuyaman]

I think that universities go through cycles of radical social consciousness alternating with cycles of social apathy.

When was there ever a cycle of "social apathy"?

[Dr. Who]

When was there ever a cycle of "social apathy"?
Between the mid to late 70's and the early 90's. When I say social apathy, I mean sociopolitical apathy. Very little activism of any kind.

[Tahuyaman]

Between the mid to late 70's and the early 90's. When I say social apathy, I mean sociopolitical apathy. Very little activism of any kind.


That is not true. It's actually unbelievable that one would make such a claim.

[Dr. Who]

That is not true. It's actually unbelievable that one would make such a claim.
Do you recall a great deal of social activism by students throughout the late 70's, the 80's and early 90's? I don't. In fact, I remember commenting during those years that there was very little activism by students but a lot of subculture being expressed in punk, goth and grunge trends, which were very inward facing and rejecting of society in general. That was contrasted by the equally ubiquitous preppy types who were totally focused on 'middle-class values' and definitely not activism. That doesn't mean that there wasn't adult activism happening at the time, but I am focusing on universities and high schools.

[Chris]

70s saw second-wave feminism, 90s third wave. @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Jonathan Haid talks about the postmodern decay of today's universities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe6-QSnQTdg

Here's an excerpt fromm THE AGE OF OUTRAGE (http://THE AGE OF OUTRAGE):
Bye bye Rome... time to fall to the very barbarians that your "Enlightenment" created... history repeats itself again...

[Tahuyaman]

Do you recall a great deal of social activism by students throughout the late 70's, the 80's and early 90's? I don't. In fact, I remember commenting during those years that there was very little activism by students but a lot of subculture being expressed in punk, goth and grunge trends, which were very inward facing and rejecting of society in general. That was contrasted by the equally ubiquitous preppy types who were totally focused on 'middle-class values' and definitely not activism. That doesn't mean that there wasn't adult activism happening at the time, but I am focusing on universities and high schools.

College campuses have been centers for social and political activism at least since the 1960's. I don't know how you can deny this?

[Dr. Who]

College campuses have been centers for social and political activism at least since the 1960's. I don't know how you can deny this?
I think it's cyclical.

[Chris]

So there is no such thing as progress then. Interesting.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

So there is no such thing as progress then. Interesting.
There are plenty of myths of progress, such as Hitler's myth of a "master race", Marx's myths of a classes society. Most myths of "progress" don't turn out to be much more than that.

A woman from a wealthy family in the 1700s would have had better access to financial opportunity and education than an average woman today would, and an Egyptian queen in ancient times would have had more sway in politics than the average voting woman today is.

Yet the populace somehow still believes they have more "rights" and progress today than they did before.

[Tahuyaman]

I think it's cyclical.. That cycle started in the early 60's and hasn't ended yet. It's just getting worse. In past era's they had a genuine cause.

[Chris]

There are plenty of myths of progress, such as Hitler's myth of a "master race", Marx's myths of a classes society. Most myths of "progress" don't turn out to be much more than that.

A woman from a wealthy family in the 1700s would have had better access to financial opportunity and education than an average woman today would, and an Egyptian queen in ancient times would have had more sway in politics than the average voting woman today is.

Yet the populace somehow still believes they have more "rights" and progress today than they did before.

So today your word is myth.

Unresponsive to what I posted.

What about the myth "history repeats itself"?

[Devil'sAdvocate]

So today your word is myth.

Unresponsive to what I posted.

What about the myth "history repeats itself"?

History is a relay of revolutions. - Saul Alinsky

I see "progress", for the most part, to be a myth which ends up being used by the status quo to claim legitimacy, even when in practice, it's become as oppressive as that which came before it.

Most 'progress' myths seem to be exaggerations anyway, and socioeconomic circumstances had more to do with external 'quality of life' than any particular 'historical era'.

People today for example, think women are 'liberated' or 'have rights' even when a wealthy woman centuries ago had access to better education and financial circumstances than the average woman today does.

So in practice, the average woman today would've been better off born in an area where she had no "legal right" to vote and being born into a noble family, and would have had better education and more sway in politics than she does today even with said "rights" existing in pure theory.

Which is another reason why modern liberalism is flawed, as it tries to measure progress in rights enumerated "on the books", even when in practice, they amount next to nothing.

@Devil'sAdvocate TB'ed at the request of the OP.