Another republican tax experiment goes wrong

[Crepitus]

And it's costing them. (https://theintercept.com/2017/11/30/oklahoma-special-election-budget-cuts/)


After years of tax cuts, Oklahoma found itself in a similar situation to neighboring Kansas. Gov. Mary Fallin, who was elected as part of a tea party wave in 2010, made cutting taxes a priority. But when oil prices collapsed in 2014, so did much of the state’s remaining revenues.Now Republicans at the national level are looking to replicated the disaster that was Oklahoma and Kansas. Sam Brownback, the former Republican senator from Kansas who left to become governor, even dropped by his old haunt on Wednesday to help rally his former colleagues on Capitol Hill.Brownback, though, remembered it much differently. “What we did actually worked,” Brownback professed. That couldn’t be more wrong. In Oklahoma, residents saw the consequences unfold before them. Spending on essential services like education and mental health care plummeted. Earlier this year, the Washington Post reported that out of 513 school districts, 96 have eliminated either Monday or Friday classes because they can only afford to send kids to school for four days a week.

They are paying for it in seats:


n House District 46, the Republican candidate won by almost 20 percentage points in the 2016 election. In this year’s special election, the Republican lost by around 20 points. In House District 75, the Republican candidate won by 19 points in the 2016 election. In the special election, the Democrat defeated the Republican by five points. In Senate District 44, the Republican won by 10 points during the last election in 2014. This year, the Democrats picked up the seat by nine points.

Beware of republicans bearing tax cuts.

[Ethereal]

Funny how when lower taxes don't solve every problem in the world, it means lower taxes are a bad idea.

But when higher taxes don't solve the specific problems they were supposed to solve, it's proof that taxes weren't high enough.

I mean, just look at the Democrats in Chicago and Illinois. They keep hiking taxes and they keep falling deeper into debt and stagnation.

Basically, it boils down to philosophy.

If you're a classical liberal, then you will be in favor of lower taxes; and if you're a Marxist, then you will be in favor of higher taxes.

Clearly, Democrats are Marxists.

[Ethereal]

The Democrat party is the party of authority and big government. The only time Democrats will object to authority and big government is when it is being wielded by someone other than a Democrat. And it doesn't matter how many times big government fails or results in disaster, Democrats will just keep insisting on more government. They are a lot like a cult in that respect.

[Hoosier8]

And it's costing them. (https://theintercept.com/2017/11/30/oklahoma-special-election-budget-cuts/)



They are paying for it in seats:



Beware of republicans bearing tax cuts.

One wonders why the highly taxed democrat controlled cities are doing so well, NOT.

[Crepitus]

One wonders why the highly taxed democrat controlled cities are doing so well, NOT.

please post examples.

[nathanbforrest45]

Why shouldn't the government get the lion's share of the wealth. After all you didn't build that and its not your money anyway.I have never understood how anyone can think taking more money from the people and increasing spending by the government could possibly be a good thing.

[Crepitus]

Funny how when lower taxes don't solve every problem in the world, it means lower taxes are a bad idea.

But when higher taxes don't solve the specific problems they were supposed to solve, it's proof that taxes weren't high enough.

I mean, just look at the Democrats in Chicago and Illinois. They keep hiking taxes and they keep falling deeper into debt and stagnation.

Basically, it boils down to philosophy.

If you're a classical liberal, then you will be in favor of lower taxes; and if you're a Marxist, then you will be in favor of higher taxes.

Clearly, Democrats are Marxists.

Lower taxes created these problems.

[nathanbforrest45]

please post examples.

Interesting post. I guess Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore are doing just jam up jobs. I would say the fact that Detroit looks worse than Hiroshima after it was nuked and Baltimore has lost a third of its population are examples of shinning Democratic Party leadership.

[Crepitus]

Why shouldn't the government get the lion's share of the wealth. After all you didn't build that and its not your money anyway.I have never understood how anyone can think taking more money from the people and increasing spending by the government could possibly be a good thing.
That's because you aren't thinking. Do you like having safe roads, airlines, and such? Do you like having police, fire, and medical services? How about a standing military for defense, since you are a conservative? Safe food and medicines? Clean water? Education?

Do you think those things don't cost money?

[Crepitus]

Interesting post. I guess Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore are doing just jam up jobs. I would say the fact that Detroit looks worse than Hiroshima after it was nuked and Baltimore has lost a third of its population are examples of shinning Democratic Party leadership.

Detroit's industry went away.

Chicago has been a disaster since the 1920s.

I'm actually not terribly familiar with Baltimore.

[nathanbforrest45]

Lower taxes created these problems.

Absolutely classic. Its those greedy Republicans who want people to keep their money and spend it the way they want that the problem.

Question. Just how high should taxes be to be at the right level? 30% 40% 50% 100%? Should the "rich" pay 80% of all the taxes and the bottom 20% pay nothing? Oh wait, that is already the case.

Do you pay more than required?

[nathanbforrest45]

That's because you aren't thinking. Do you like having safe roads, airlines, and such? Do you like having police, fire, and medical services? How about a standing military for defense, since you are a conservative? Safe food and medicines? Clean water? Education?

Do you think those things don't cost money?

And "government" which spends on 1000's of things other than these list are the only way any of this can happen.

No one other than liberals makes the argument that conservatives don't want to pay taxes. Police Departments are necessary to keep the hoards created by liberal policies from taking over the cities, a standing military is not necessary, but rather an invitation for foreign interference. We did quite nicely with a small standing army augmented by state militias until the second world war. Medical services when administered by governments are always a shambles and cost far more than if it were private medical services as it was for 150 years or more of this countries existence. I can and did pay for my children's private school education while also throwing money down the rat hole of government schooling which is and has been a complete failure in almost every market. Safe food and medicine provided by government oversight is nothing more than a fairy tale. and as far as fire protection is concerned are you aware that the vast majority of fire departments in this country are volunteer fire departments paid for by donations, fund raisers or subscriptions to the service.

No, 90% of what the government "provides" can be provided cheaper with better quality and service by the people themselves.

[Crepitus]

Absolutely classic. Its those greedy Republicans who want people to keep their money and spend it the way they want that the problem.

Question. Just how high should taxes be to be at the right level? 30% 40% 50% 100%? Should the "rich" pay 80% of all the taxes and the bottom 20% pay nothing? Oh wait, that is already the case.

Do you pay more than required?

Nice straw man.

[Crepitus]

And "government" which spends on 1000's of things other than these list are the only way any of this can happen.

No one other than liberals makes the argument that conservatives don't want to pay taxes. Police Departments are necessary to keep the hoards created by liberal policies from taking over the cities, a standing military is not necessary, but rather an invitation for foreign interference. We did quite nicely with a small standing army augmented by state militias until the second world war. Medical services when administered by governments are always a shambles and cost far more than if it were private medical services as it was for 150 years or more of this countries existence. I can and did pay for my children's private school education while also throwing money down the rat hole of government schooling which is and has been a complete failure in almost every market. Safe food and medicine provided by government oversight is nothing more than a fairy tale. and as far as fire protection is concerned are you aware that the vast majority of fire departments in this country are volunteer fire departments paid for by donations, fund raisers or subscriptions to the service.

No, 90% of what the government "provides" can be provided cheaper with better quality and service by the people themselves.

Then why haven't they? No one is stopping anyone from competing are they?

[Tahuyaman]

When tax rates are lowered, there are no losers.

[Ethereal]

Lower taxes created these problems.
Yea, letting Americans keep more of their own money is such a huge problem... if you're a Marxist.

[Ethereal]

That's because you aren't thinking. Do you like having safe roads, airlines, and such? Do you like having police, fire, and medical services? How about a standing military for defense, since you are a conservative? Safe food and medicines? Clean water? Education?

Do you think those things don't cost money?

Oklahoma and Kansas should just do what Democrats do and raise taxes and increase government spending. That way they can achieve the same level of success as Detroit and Chicago.

[Ethereal]

Detroit's industry went away.

Because Democrats drove it away with their high taxes and excessive regulations.


Chicago has been a disaster since the 1920s.

No it hasn't.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZvosRi-udfc/SmY3Jd7ITVI/AAAAAAAAAog/1juTYgt5i7s/s1600/murderrate.JPG


I'm actually not terribly familiar with Baltimore.

It's just another decaying, indebted shithole run by Democrats.

[Ethereal]

Then why haven't they?

They do. Everything you mentioned has a large private component to it. Naturally, those components would be much larger in the absence of Marxist cancer.

[Ethereal]

When tax rates are lowered, there are no losers.

Except the parasites sucking on the tax money, which often includes big corporations.

[Crepitus]

Yea, letting Americans keep more of their own money is such a huge problem... if you're a Marxist.
LOL, you gonna tell me I should be rounded up and executed next Mr V?

[Crepitus]

Oklahoma and Kansas should just do what Democrats do and raise taxes and increase government spending. That way they can achieve the same level of success as Detroit and Chicago.
They should.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that almost all large cities are democratically controlled and focus on just those two? How are Huston, LA, and New York doing?

[Crepitus]

Because Democrats drove it away with their high taxes and excessive regulations.



No it hasn't.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZvosRi-udfc/SmY3Jd7ITVI/AAAAAAAAAog/1juTYgt5i7s/s1600/murderrate.JPG



It's just another decaying, indebted shithole run by Democrats.

Offshoring of manufacturing killed Detroit.

You need to look closer at your chart.

and again, how are other democratic cities doing?

[Crepitus]

They do. Everything you mentioned has a large private component to it. Naturally, those components would be much larger in the absence of Marxist cancer.
Keep twisting man, maybe someone will fall for it.

[nic34]

Everyone likes lower taxes, but a 15% cut for wealthy corporations is only going to hurt the middle class and states.

[Safety]

One wonders why the highly taxed democrat controlled cities are doing so well, NOT.

You mean like the highly taxed blue states that have to support the struggling red states?

[Safety]

Offshoring of manufacturing killed Detroit.

You need to look closer at your chart.

and again, how are other democratic cities doing?

Did they really just invoke the Chicago deflection again?

[Ethereal]

LOL, you gonna tell me I should be rounded up and executed next Mr V?
You're far more likely to support policies like that than I am.

[Crepitus]

Did they really just invoke the Chicago deflection again?
2nd time this morning already.

Gonna be a long day.

[Ethereal]

They should.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that almost all large cities are democratically controlled and focus on just those two? How are Huston, LA, and New York doing?

Houston benefits from being inside Texas, which has been the fasting growing economy in the USA for years now. Incidentally, Texas is governed by the same low taxes and light regulations you claim are responsible for the economic difficulties of a state like Kansas.

By the way, Oklahoma's GDP grew at 5.5% in the second quarter of this year. Seems like they moving in the right direction after all.

[Ethereal]

Offshoring of manufacturing killed Detroit.

Offshoring only became necessary due to the anti-business environment created by Democrat political policies.


You need to look closer at your chart.

A meaningless statement.


and again, how are other democratic cities doing?

By and large, they are swimming in debt, suffering from higher than average unemployment, and awash in violent crime.

[Ethereal]

Keep twisting man, maybe someone will fall for it.

You asked a question and I answered it. Your response is devoid of any relevance or substance, as usual.

[Ethereal]

You mean like the highly taxed blue states that have to support the struggling red states?

Red states contain blue cities, and that is where the majority of welfare is going to in America.

[Crepitus]

Houston benefits from being inside Texas, which has been the fasting growing economy in the USA for years now. Incidentally, Texas is governed by the same low taxes and light regulations you claim are responsible for the economic difficulties of a state like Kansas.

By the way, Oklahoma's GDP grew at 5.5% in the second quarter of this year. Seems like they moving in the right direction after all.
Both of those things go back to rising oil prices.

[Ethereal]

Did they really just invoke the Chicago deflection again?

Chicago is a great example of how Democrats are failures. So is Detroit, and New Orleans, and Baltimore, and St. Louis, and Oakland, etc.

[Ethereal]

Both of those things go back to rising oil prices.

No, they don't. Texas was growing even while oil prices were depressed. In fact, what little economic growth Obama could point to during his administration came primarily from Texas, a state with low taxes and low regulations. In any case, having a robust energy sector is a direct result of having low taxes and regulations.

[Crepitus]

Offshoring only became necessary due to the anti-business environment created by Democrat political policies.
Offshoring is about higher profits, screw everything and everyone else. Repeating republican talking points will not change that.


A meaningless statement.

As is that.




By and large, they are swimming in debt, suffering from higher than average unemployment, and awash in violent crime.
I'm afraid you will have to post some evidence of that.

[Ethereal]

States like California, Illinois, and New York are all trending towards insolvency. At this rate, they will become the next Greece. And each state is trying to tax their way out of it, to no avail. Illinois is failing especially bad, since they lack the serendipitous geography of California and the political clout of New York's financial sector. Democrats take their economic cues from Karl Marx and it shows.

[Ethereal]

Offshoring is about higher profits, screw everything and everyone else. Repeating republican talking points will not change that.

The only reason offshoring allows for "higher profits" is because the cost of doing business in the USA is higher than it is offshore. And the main reason why the cost of doing business in the USA is higher than it is offshore is becauseof high taxes and regulations pushed by economically illiterate Democrats.


I'm afraid you will have to post some evidence of that.

If someone worth persuading happens to come along, I'd be happy to.

[nathanbforrest45]

Then why haven't they? No one is stopping anyone from competing are they?

Government interference and government induced monopolies such as Obamacare and the federal highway system. Railroads were built without federal money (and don't tell us about the Western Railroads being built by government funding until you study your history more), airlines were created by private companies and then the regulation taken over by the government.

There is nothing the govenment can do better than the citizens cannot do for themselves if they are free to do so.

[nathanbforrest45]

LOL, you gonna tell me I should be rounded up and executed next Mr V?

Talk about strawmen!!!!!

[Crepitus]

Government interference such as Obamacare

Nothing to do with the topic or my question.

Would you like to try again?

[Crepitus]

Talk about strawmen!!!!!

Not hardly.

[nathanbforrest45]

Nothing to do with the topic or my question.

Would you like to try again?

No, I answered the question of why we weren't providing our own medical care and the reason is that it has been taken over by Obamacare. We did quite well before it was forced down our throats.

I need to put you back on ignore because you really are a detriment to rational thought.

[Tahuyaman]

No one loses when tax rates are cut. They are good. That's why many Democrats in the past have supported them. They won't support it now because their hate for Trump is more important that the political advantage they will receive by supporting cuts in tax rates.