Liberalism's demise

[Kalkin]

*breaking*

21330

[nic34]

Faux noos ... Buwahahaha

[Kalkin]

Faux noos ... Buwahahaha

The proof is all around you. Sadly, you choose to shoot the messenger because you can't dispute the truth of the message. :)

[Chris]

Faux noos ... Buwahahaha

Why the ad hom when liberalism, despite failing, will just march on driven by feeling and passion?

[Tahuyaman]

Why the ad hom when liberalism, despite failing, will just march on driven by feeling and passion?

Because he's got nothing else.

[AZ Jim]

2018 will show liberals are still viable.

[countryboy]

2018 will show liberals are still viable.

I dunno, libs seem to be doing everything possible to continue to lose. The Kate Steinle decision is just the latest example.

[Kalkin]

2018 will show liberals are still viable.
Viable a a minor coastal party, sure.

[Chris]

2018 will show liberals are still viable.

No doubt. You can only slow down the march of liberal progressives. You can't stop it. --But it will stop itself.

[jimmyz]

Liberalism ala Kennedy should replace Liberalism ala today's hard Leftist Prog version. Then maybe they could gain seats. I shed no tears for them tearing apart the Dem party.

[stjames1_53]

2018 will show liberals are still viable.

The DNC is broke, kaputz, destroyed by Hillary and Barry
they have 4 mil in their coffers and 3.2 in bank loans. Wadayadink? Go rob some more people?

[Green Arrow]

American politics operate on a pendulum. Conservatives and liberals largely trade power back and forth every few years. Declaring either ideology "dead" when they are the two major ideologies in America is hyperbolic and silly. Liberalism is just as "dead" now as conservatism was in 2008 when Obama got elected. We see how well death suited them...

[Green Arrow]

The DNC is broke, kaputz, destroyed by Hillary and Barry
they have 4 mil in their coffers and 3.2 in bank loans. Wadayadink? Go rob some more people?

Liberalism is an ideology, the DNC is a party. The DNC doesn't represent all liberals any more than the RNC represents all conservatives.

[Chris]

American politics operate on a pendulum. Conservatives and liberals largely trade power back and forth every few years. Declaring either ideology "dead" when they are the two major ideologies in America is hyperbolic and silly. Liberalism is just as "dead" now as conservatism was in 2008 when Obama got elected. We see how well death suited them...


Liberalism is an ideology, the DNC is a party. The DNC doesn't represent all liberals any more than the RNC represents all conservatives.

Right.

[Mister D]

American politics operate on a pendulum. Conservatives and liberals largely trade power back and forth every few years. Declaring either ideology "dead" when they are the two major ideologies in America is hyperbolic and silly. Liberalism is just as "dead" now as conservatism was in 2008 when Obama got elected. We see how well death suited them...

And that happens because by and large they believe the same things. That is, they share the same ideology (i.e. liberalism properly defined). That these supposedly opposed parties routinely trade places demonstrates that reality.

[Green Arrow]

And that happens because by and large they believe the same things. That is, they share the same ideology (i.e. liberalism properly defined). That these supposedly opposed parties routinely trade places demonstrates that reality.

Agreed.

[resister]

American politics operate on a pendulum. Conservatives and liberals largely trade power back and forth every few years. Declaring either ideology "dead" when they are the two major ideologies in America is hyperbolic and silly. Liberalism is just as "dead" now as conservatism was in 2008 when Obama got elected. We see how well death suited them...
Wig party, anyone?

[Mini Me]

Liberalism ala Kennedy should replace Liberalism ala today's hard Leftist Prog version. Then maybe they could gain seats. I shed no tears for them tearing apart the Dem party.

I blame the Clintons for that! They veered away from the old New Deal of FDR and took the middle path.

[Mister D]

Agreed.
Mind you, I'm not suggesting they're exactly the same or that they don't have significant differences. They certainly do but at the end of the day no profound or even substantive change to American life is at stake in these elections.

[Grokmaster]

2018 will show liberals are still viable.

Not after Franken, Conyers, and the Steinle verdict, they won't...

[Boris The Animal]

Agreed.
So what needs to happen is Liberalism needs to be outright banned in the US. Completely destroyed and the Communists which ALL Leftists in the US are, will be finally exposed.

[Mister D]

lol

[AZ Jim]

So what needs to happen is Liberalism needs to be outright banned in the US. Completely destroyed and the Communists which ALL Leftists in the US are, will be finally exposed.Too stupid to warrant debate.

[Green Arrow]

So what needs to happen is Liberalism needs to be outright banned in the US. Completely destroyed and the Communists which ALL Leftists in the US are, will be finally exposed.

I love free comedy.

[Chris]

And that happens because by and large they believe the same things. That is, they share the same ideology (i.e. liberalism properly defined). That these supposedly opposed parties routinely trade places demonstrates that reality.

Still, one is radical and the other reactionary. That is why politics in the US move ever left.

[Kacper]

People who fear progress generally are those who get left behind at each tick of the evolutionary clock whose egos need someone else to blame.

[Boris The Animal]

I love free comedy.No, I'm as serious as a heart attack on this. Liberalism created all the urban blight across the US. Liberalism is destroying the private sector, hell there has been zero job growth here in the People's Republik of New Yorkistan for decades.

[barb012]

Liberalism is brainwashed into individuals due to our government controlled education system. Democrats who desire open borders because of the money flow to them by other countries needed liberal thinking to gain support. The problems is liberals have taken it too far when our US culture is sacrificed where we cannot have a Merry Christmas sign because it will offend other cultures living here. One example of many where liberals are out of control and many people are sick of them.

[Chris]

People who fear progress generally are those who get left behind at each tick of the evolutionary clock whose egos need someone else to blame.

Is it a fear of progress or a prudent caution against rushing willy-nilly into unchartered waters and unintended consequences?

And what progress? Technological, sure, but to run the government and the economy as if it's mere technology is a mistake. It involves people.

[Kacper]

Is it a fear of progress or a prudent caution against rushing willy-nilly into unchartered waters and unintended consequences?

And what progress? Technological, sure, but to run the government and the economy as if it's mere technology is a mistake. It involves people.

All progress is unchartered water. That is what makes it progress. :rollseyes:

[Chris]

All progress is unchartered water. That is what makes it progress. :rollseyes:

Then it's not progress, not planned out, not designed, as progressives and others would have it, but evolutionary, spontaneous, emergent.

[Mini Me]

Too stupid to warrant debate.

When the poop hits the fan, his kind will have free lodging at the FEMA camps!

And the trains all run on time, and coffins can seat three!

[Mini Me]

Is it a fear of progress or a prudent caution against rushing willy-nilly into unchartered waters and unintended consequences?

And what progress? Technological, sure, but to run the government and the economy as if it's mere technology is a mistake. It involves people.

As is trying to run government like a business!

[Mister D]

All progress is unchartered water. That is what makes it progress. :rollseyes:

loll What does that even mean?

[Mister D]

Then it's not progress, not planned out, not designed, as progressives and others would have it, but evolutionary, spontaneous, emergent.

It's change for the sake of change. In short, idiotic and destructive.

[hanger4]

Too stupid to warrant debate.I am impressed AZ Jim you do know how to spell the word. Now if you only attempted some, sometime.

[AZ Jim]

The parallel now between us and the German people of 1939 is uncanny and scary as hell. People said of them later how could otherwise seemingly intelligent people follow a leader who was obviously mentally ill. Now I begin to see how.

[Mister D]

The parallel now between us and the German people of 1939 is uncanny and scary as hell. People said of them later how could otherwise seemingly intelligent people follow a leader who was obviously mentally ill. Now I begin to see how.
lol

[Peter1469]

The parallel now between us and the German people of 1939 is uncanny and scary as hell. People said of them later how could otherwise seemingly intelligent people follow a leader who was obviously mentally ill. Now I begin to see how.

Is this guy serious?

WTF?

[Mister D]

Is this guy serious?

WTF?
Sadly, yes. These are the people we are expected to have respectful dialogue with.

[Boris The Animal]

As is trying to run government like a business!
Why is it wrong to get the government to live within its means, not spending more than it takes in?

[Kacper]

Then it's not progress, not planned out, not designed, as progressives and others would have it, but evolutionary, spontaneous, emergent.

To paraphrase whoever said it, no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

[nic34]

Why the ad hom when liberalism, despite failing, will just march on driven by feeling and passion?

Because it's fake news, and your ideology is an insignificant minority. Most Americans agree with liberals on the issues.

[nic34]

Liberalism is brainwashed into individuals due to our government controlled education system. Democrats who desire open borders because of the money flow to them by other countries needed liberal thinking to gain support. The problems is liberals have taken it too far when our US culture is sacrificed where we cannot have a Merry Christmas sign because it will offend other cultures living here. One example of many where liberals are out of control and many people are sick of them.
Sorry, Xmas has been brought to you by big buisness.

[nic34]

All progress is unchartered water. That is what makes it progress. :rollseyes:

But don't they tell us the nation should be run like a business?

[nic34]

I am impressed AZ Jim you do know how to spell the word. Now if you only attempted some, sometime.

Now remind one of our members how to spell "whig".

[Crepitus]

Why is it wrong to get the government to live within its means, not spending more than it takes in?

What business willingly cuts it's bottom line?

[nic34]

Don't confuse them.

[Crepitus]

To paraphrase whoever said it, no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

Helmuth (sp?) The elder.

"No plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force."

[Crepitus]

Then it's not progress, not planned out, not designed, as progressives and others would have it, but evolutionary, spontaneous, emergent.

Since when does progress have to be planned out and designed? I don't think that's in the definition.

[Crepitus]

The parallel now between us and the German people of 1939 is uncanny and scary as hell. People said of them later how could otherwise seemingly intelligent people follow a leader who was obviously mentally ill. Now I begin to see how.

Cult of personality + a certain portion of any population is gonna be more gullible than the rest.

By the very definition of the word "average" half of Americans are below average intelligence.

[Chris]

Because it's fake news, and your ideology is an insignificant minority. Most Americans agree with liberals on the issues.

It is?

And what's my ideology got to do with it, nic?

Link to your data?

[Chris]

Sorry, Xmas has been brought to you by big buisness.

Business profits by producing and selling what consumers want.

[Chris]

But don't they tell us the nation should be run like a business?

Whoever tells you that is wrong.

A business seeks profit.

A government power.

Power corrupts.

[Ethereal]

Letting Marxist Democrats appropriate the term "liberalism" has been one of the biggest failings of liberalism proper.

[Chris]

Since when does progress have to be planned out and designed? I don't think that's in the definition.

Then explain how you know progress is being made? Generally, you see something that troubles you, you plan steps to take to fix it. Along the way you look at where you are and decide if you're making progress toward your goal and if not re-plan. Just commonsense thing.

Some dictionary:

prog·ress
noun
ˈpräɡres/Submit
1.
forward or onward movement toward a destination.


In politics it implies reform. Reform the tax codes. Reform political corruption. You set up goals and try to achieve them.

[Chris]

Cult of personality + a certain portion of any population is gonna be more gullible than the rest.

By the very definition of the word "average" half of Americans are below average intelligence.


That defines both Obama and Trump. Good job there.

Great attack on the people.

[Peter1469]

It is interesting that the left insists that people who didn't vote for Hillary are stupid. But then again they don't care about fly over country.

[Chris]

Letting Marxist Democrats appropriate the term "liberalism" has been one of the biggest failings of liberalism proper.

It was FDR. Progressive had grown tainted, so he looked around for a replacement. Only people calling themselves liberals at the time were Mises, hayek, and others who changed to libertarians.

[Crepitus]

That defines both Obama and Trump. Good job there.

Great attack on the people.

Umm no. Not really.

[Chris]

Umm no. Not really.

Um yes. Really.

[AZ Jim]

lolWhen confronted by hurtful truths fools can only chuckle. Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

[Bethere]

Business profits by producing and selling what consumers want.

Business wins by eliminating competitors, buying off decision makers, and setting prices in a non competitive environment.

[Mister D]

When confronted by hurtful truths fools can only chuckle. Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
lol

[Mister D]

That defines both Obama and Trump. Good job there.

Great attack on the people.
lol I was thinking the same thing when i saw that comment. Obama was a rock star in 2008.

[Chris]

Business wins by eliminating competitors, buying off decision makers, and setting prices in a non competitive environment.



Business wins by eliminating competitors

By providing what consumers want more than what competitors offer.


buying off decision makers

IOW, the government sells out power. That's corruption.


setting prices in a non competitive environment

Lower prices which the consumers want.

[Chris]

lol I was thinking the same thing when i saw that comment. Obama was a rock star in 2008.

What gets me is how the left says they're for the people and yet they never trust the people.

[Mister D]

What gets me is how the left says they're for the people and yet they never trust the people.
That's true. The party of the people routinely showers them with contempt but what really gets me is how stupid people think they're smarter than the President. lol

[Ravens Fan]

What gets me is how the left says they're for the people and yet they never trust the people.

What gets me is how people still haven't figured out just how bad a thing it is to describe those who don't agree with your ideology as stupid, deplorable, etc...

That thinking was a major reason that Hillary lost the election.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Common]

The left wins because they promise free stuff, who wants to work when you can let someone else work and get it free and then get to call them names..

[Chris]

What gets me is how people still haven't figured out just how bad a thing it is to describe those who don't agree with your ideology as stupid, deplorable, etc...

That thinking was a major reason that Hillary lost the election.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Or as I have often pointed out, if the winners are idiots, what's that make the losers?

[Chris]

The left wins because they promise free stuff, who wants to work when you can let someone else work and get it free and then get to call them names..

Yes, that promise will always win...until the cost of all that free stuff exceeds the ability of the taxpayer to pay for it.

[barb012]

The promise of all that free stuff went to legal and illegal immigrants and none of it went to natural born citizens of the US. Why? because natural born citizens already are forced to pay into the government system while the money from foreign nations must be paid up front to politicians to allow their citizens into our country.

[nic34]

[QUOTE=Chris;2229368]It is?

Yes, it is, because you and everyone else knows “liberalism” is not going anywhere any more than conservatism is.


Funny you should bring up Bernie in your thread about taxes:

Why Republicans Vote for Bernie

Why is Bernie Sanders, a socialist, so popular with people who should hate "socialism"?


The answer is pretty simple.

While Americans disagree on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, they’re actually pretty unified on the bread and butter economic issues that Bernie has made the core of his campaign.

In fact, a recent poll by the Progressive Change Institute (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.boldprogressives.org/images/Big_Ideas-Polling_PDF-1.pdf), shows that Americans overwhelmingly agree with Bernie on key issues like education, healthcare, and the economy.

Like Bernie, 75 percent of Americans poll support fair trade that “protects workers, the environment, and jobs.”

71 percent support giving all students access to a debt-free college education.

71 percent support a massive infrastructure spending program aimed at rebuilding our broken roads and bridges and putting people back to work.

70 percent support expanding Social Security.

59 percent support raising taxes on the wealthy so that millionaires pay the same amount in taxes as they did during the Reagan administration.

58 percent support breaking up the big banks.

55 percent support a financial transaction or Robin Hood tax.

51 percent support single payer healthcare, and so and so on.

And here’s the thing - supporting Social Security, free college, breaking up the big banks, aren’t “progressive” policies (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.boldprogressives.org/images/Big_Ideas-Polling_PDF-1.pdf), they’re just common sense, and 60 years ago they would have put Bernie Sanders smack dab in the mainstream of my father’s Republican Party.

https://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/08/why-republicans-vote-bernie


BTW, don’t conservatives like clean water, air and healthy ecosystems to grow food?

[Chris]

[QUOTE]
And what's my ideology got to do with it, nic?
[quote]
Weren’t you the one that posted that tripe that Bernie is wrong about taxes?



Funny you should bring up Bernie:

Why Republicans Vote for Bernie

Why is Bernie Sanders, a socialist, so popular with people who should hate "socialism"?


The answer is pretty simple.

While Americans disagree on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, they’re actually pretty unified on the bread and butter economic issues that Bernie has made the core of his campaign.

In fact, a recent poll by the Progressive Change Institute (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.boldprogressives.org/images/Big_Ideas-Polling_PDF-1.pdf), shows that Americans overwhelmingly agree with Bernie on key issues like education, healthcare, and the economy.

Like Bernie, 75 percent of Americans poll support fair trade that “protects workers, the environment, and jobs.”

71 percent support giving all students access to a debt-free college education.

71 percent support a massive infrastructure spending program aimed at rebuilding our broken roads and bridges and putting people back to work.

70 percent support expanding Social Security.

59 percent support raising taxes on the wealthy so that millionaires pay the same amount in taxes as they did during the Reagan administration.

58 percent support breaking up the big banks.

55 percent support a financial transaction or Robin Hood tax.

51 percent support single payer healthcare, and so and so on.

And here’s the thing - supporting Social Security, free college, breaking up the big banks, aren’t “progressive” policies (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.boldprogressives.org/images/Big_Ideas-Polling_PDF-1.pdf), they’re just common sense, and 60 years ago they would have put Bernie Sanders smack dab in the mainstream of my father’s Republican Party.

https://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/08/why-republicans-vote-bernie





BTW, don’t conservatives like clean water, air and healthy ecosystems to grow food?



Indeed, Bernie is as much a populist as Trump on economic issues. They're both dead wrong economically, but they both have great populist appeal, just that one had more.

What exactly is the value of popular opinion about economics. If I said hey here's something free, everyone would come running, is everyone thus an economist? TNSTAAFL.

[resister]

[QUOTE]
And what's my ideology got to do with it, nic?
[quote]
Weren’t you the one that posted that tripe that Bernie is wrong about taxes?



Funny you should bring up Bernie:

Why Republicans Vote for Bernie

Why is Bernie Sanders, a socialist, so popular with people who should hate "socialism"?


The answer is pretty simple.

While Americans disagree on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, they’re actually pretty unified on the bread and butter economic issues that Bernie has made the core of his campaign.

In fact, a recent poll by the Progressive Change Institute (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.boldprogressives.org/images/Big_Ideas-Polling_PDF-1.pdf), shows that Americans overwhelmingly agree with Bernie on key issues like education, healthcare, and the economy.

Like Bernie, 75 percent of Americans poll support fair trade that “protects workers, the environment, and jobs.”

71 percent support giving all students access to a debt-free college education.

71 percent support a massive infrastructure spending program aimed at rebuilding our broken roads and bridges and putting people back to work.

70 percent support expanding Social Security.

59 percent support raising taxes on the wealthy so that millionaires pay the same amount in taxes as they did during the Reagan administration.

58 percent support breaking up the big banks.

55 percent support a financial transaction or Robin Hood tax.

51 percent support single payer healthcare, and so and so on.

And here’s the thing - supporting Social Security, free college, breaking up the big banks, aren’t “progressive” policies (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.boldprogressives.org/images/Big_Ideas-Polling_PDF-1.pdf), they’re just common sense, and 60 years ago they would have put Bernie Sanders smack dab in the mainstream of my father’s Republican Party.

https://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/08/why-republicans-vote-bernie





BTW, don’t conservatives like clean water, air and healthy ecosystems to grow food?
I still want to know Bernie's plan to provide "free college for all" Wonder how many millennials believed he could actually​ provide that. Without that absurd promise, he not of got anywhere near the votes, never mind a corrupt party stacking the deck and robbing him. Just as well, no way he could of delivered on that promise.

[nic34]

The left wins because they promise free stuff, who wants to work when you can let someone else work and get it free and then get to call them names..

So only the left likes clean water to drink and clean air to breathe? Do you think that is FREE stuff?

[Chris]

So only the left likes clean water to drink and clean air to breathe? Do you think that is FREE stuff?

We all want clean water to drink, we just differ in how to achieve that. Paint those you disagree with as evil and uncaring is a poor argument.

[nic34]

I still want to know Bernie's plan to provide "free college for all" Wonder how many millennials believed he could actually​ provide that. Without that absurd promise, he not of got anywhere near the votes, never mind a corrupt party stacking the deck and robbing him. Just as well, no way he could of delivered on that promise.


Here's an idea, try reading:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/

[nic34]

We all want clean water to drink, we just differ in how to achieve that. Paint those you disagree with as evil and uncaring is a poor argument.

Right, thus celebrating the demise of anything is premature...

[resister]

Here's an idea, try reading:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/
Oh, so classic Robin Hood socialism. Here's an Idea for you try figuring out why socialism has a great track record of success.

[Chris]

Right, thus celebrating the demise of anything is premature...

Huh?

I was the one who said liberalism will never die but will continue to grow and bloat government until it overwhelms itself.

[nic34]

Oh, so classic Robin Hood socialism. Here's an Idea for you try figuring out why socialism has a great track record of success.

It does. You want to will me your social security and medicare?

[KathyS]

lol I was thinking the same thing when i saw that comment. Obama was a rock star in 2008.

Remember the first Inauguration party with the Greek pillars?? Great use of taxpayer dollars. Not.

[Peter1469]

It does. You want to will me your social security and medicare?
He can't. He has no property rights in them.

[Ethereal]

Remember the first Inauguration party with the Greek pillars?? Great use of taxpayer dollars. Not.

I would characterize them as more Romanesque. Obama and his sycophants were going for an imperial vibe... :smiley:

[Ethereal]

Oh, so classic Robin Hood socialism. Here's an Idea for you try figuring out why socialism has a great track record of success.
Actually, Robin Hood took back the taxes the government stole from the people. He's pretty much the opposite of modern socialists... :grin:

[resister]

It does. You want to will me your social security and medicare?
Show me a thriving socialist country.

[KathyS]

Many on the left are hyperventilating so much that they do everything in their power to draw similarities between Trump and Hitler. It's absolutely ridiculous, IMO. The establishment on both sides continue to do everything possible to take the President down while ignoring the issues that put him in office. Trump won not only because he focused on what the American people wanted, he won because he financed his own primary. He wasn't financed by the RNC or lobbyists therefore, they had no control over him-drove the establishment nuts, didn't it?
Trump isn't perfect by any means (none of us are, btw), but I see him as the last hope to get our country back on track regarding jobs/economy. I don't think he's racist (he just helped 3 Black students get released from China) or that he gives a damn whether someone is gay, trans, whatever.
It's refreshing that he's not a politician promising all kinds of gimmes talking out of both sides of their mouths. And the obstruction I see is some in Congress doing everything they can to manipulate the system to limit Trump's 2020 chances at reelection.

Oh, and it seems Obama refuses to go away quietly, instead is working behind the scenes to advance progressive ideology despite the fact it has failed time and again. He doesn't give a hoot about the welfare of the country or it's citizens, he just wants the power socialism will grant those in office.

I promise you all that if I see Trump begin to authorize the construction of concentration camps, the confiscation of people's personal belongings, force certain groups to wear a symbol to point out their difference from the rest of society, and so on, I'll announce my errors here and throw myself on a sword in shame.

[Mister D]

Anyone who believes there is a meaningful comparison to be made between Trump and Hitler is an idiot.

[Mister D]

Of course they also made such comparisons between Bush and Hitler so this isn't anything new.

[Peter1469]

Anyone who believes there is a meaningful comparison to be made between Trump and Hitler is an idiot.

I would say much worse than an idiot.

[Mister D]

I would say much worse than an idiot.
The ones two genuinely believe it are just morons. Those who espouse it and don't genuinely believe it are indeed much worse than idiots.

[Chris]

Show me a thriving socialist country.

The socialists lost that argument a long time ago. But it's like whack-a-mole, you knock it down here, it pops up there, it never ends, and gets boring as hell.

[resister]

The socialists lost that argument a long time ago. But it's like whack-a-mole, you knock it down here, it pops up there, it never ends, and gets boring as hell.
Venezuela does not even have TP to wipe it's ass, but since only the socialist leaders have anything to eat, that's a non issue :)

[Chris]

Venezuela does not even have TP to wipe it's ass, but since only the socialist leaders have anything to eat, that's a non issue :)

Yea but it's not true socialism!

[Dr. Who]

No, I'm as serious as a heart attack on this. Liberalism created all the urban blight across the US. Liberalism is destroying the private sector, hell there has been zero job growth here in the People's Republik of New Yorkistan for decades.
America was founded in liberalism (classical liberalism). It is the basis of the Constitution. The reasons for human blight are not the result of liberalism but the result of greed and corruption in government as well as influence peddling.

[Boris The Animal]

What business willingly cuts it's bottom line?
When you are seriously in the red, DUHHHH!!!!!

[Boris The Animal]

America was founded in liberalism (classical liberalism). It is the basis of the Constitution. The reasons for human blight are not the result of liberalism but the result of greed and corruption in government as well as influence peddling.Actually, Leftist policies like the failed Raw Deal of FDR and LBJ's not-so-Great Society programs are EXCLUSIVELY responsible for the demise of the inner cities along with the designed breakup of the family these programs started. Sorry, but I live in a city where we haven't had a decent mayor since Jim Griffin (1978-1994) and he was the LAST Democrat I actually liked. You'd have to go back to 1961-1965 for the last Republican Mayor of Buffalo.

[Crepitus]

When you are seriously in the red, DUHHHH!!!!!

Good thing you aren't a CEO.

[Boris The Animal]

Good thing you aren't a CEO.High taxes and labor costs can do that to ya, DUHHH!!!!!

[Chris]

America was founded in liberalism (classical liberalism). It is the basis of the Constitution. The reasons for human blight are not the result of liberalism but the result of greed and corruption in government as well as influence peddling.

As politiely as possible let's not take advantage of ambiguity. Clasical liberalism and modern liberalism are at loggerheads in America.



Human blight, i.e., poverty is the natural and normal condition of man out of which he can arise only if he acts. When man depends on the government for that he remains in poverty. Thxis is supported by the fact that poverty was in steep decline in the US prior to the liberal declaration of the War on Poverty, after which the rate of poverty has remained the same.

[Dr. Who]

As politiely as possible let's not take advantage of ambiguity. Clasical liberalism and modern liberalism are at loggerheads in America.



Human blight, i.e., poverty is the natural and normal condition of man out of which he can arise only if he acts. When man depends on the government for that he remains in poverty. Thxis is supported by the fact that poverty was in steep decline in the US prior to the liberal declaration of the War on Poverty, after which the rate of poverty has remained the same.
I thought I was being unambiguous when I parenthesized "classical liberalism". As to the rest, I think that it's complicated. While government was involved in the creation of welfare, it, on various levels has protected corrupt businesses through legislation or other manipulations which has also contributed to poverty and it has historically allowed public funds to be spent discriminately to support the wealthy at the expense of the poor. The corruption begins at the level of municipalities and extends through all levels of government.

[Chris]

I thought I was being unambiguous when I parenthesized "classical liberalism". As to the rest, I think that it's complicated. While government was involved in the creation of welfare, it, on various levels has protected corrupt businesses through legislation or other manipulations which has also contributed to poverty and it has historically allowed public funds to be spent discriminately to support the wealthy at the expense of the poor. The corruption begins at the level of municipalities and extends through all levels of government.

As long as it's clear today's liberalism is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from classical liberalism.


I don't disagree one bit that government colluding with business has created an enormous amount of corruption. I am not sure how that contributed to poverty in any sense of adding to it--you might explain that--though I might agree the corruption has kept everyone from propsering more than they would have free of it.

Public funds, taken from all people, in the form of taxes, is part and parcel the corruption.

Just remember, it's not wealth that corrupts, but power.

[KathyS]

as long as it's clear today's liberalism is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from classical liberalism.


I don't disagree one bit that government colluding with business has created an enormous amount of corruption. I am not sure how that contributed to poverty in any sense of adding to it--you might explain that--though i might agree the corruption has kept everyone from propsering more than they would have free of it.

Public funds, taken from all people, in the form of taxes, is part and parcel the corruption.

Just remember, it's not wealth that corrupts, but power.

^^^^^^
this

[Bethere]

As long as it's clear today's liberalism is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from classical liberalism.


I don't disagree one bit that government colluding with business has created an enormous amount of corruption. I am not sure how that contributed to poverty in any sense of adding to it--you might explain that--though I might agree the corruption has kept everyone from propsering more than they would have free of it.

Public funds, taken from all people, in the form of taxes, is part and parcel the corruption.

Just remember, it's not wealth that corrupts, but power.

Nonsense. Wealth absolutely corrupts.

[Chris]

Nonsense. Wealth absolutely corrupts.

With all due respect that statement alone is meaningless and vacuous unless you somehow support it. Keep in mind we're talking political corruption, not personal.

[Bethere]

With all due respect that statement alone is meaningless and vacuous unless you somehow support it. Keep in mind we're talking political corruption, not personal.

Meaningless? Vacuous?

It is no wonder why you are so unpopular.

[Kalkin]

Business profits by producing and selling what consumers want.

Unlike government, which requires the threat of force to acquire its revenue.

[Kalkin]

Letting Marxist Democrats appropriate the term "liberalism" has been one of the biggest failings of liberalism proper.

And the appropriation of the word "progress" as well. I like progress. Repealing obamacare is progress. Lowering taxes is progress. Appointing non-activist judges is progress. Shrinking government is progress.

[Chris]

Unlike government, which requires the threat of force to acquire its revenue.

Government incentives drive it to waste wealth.

A brother worked for a city for a while, doing insurance actuarial work. He went to his first city board meeting with a number of ways to save through efficiency. His boss later called him into his office and chewed him out and told him never talk about saving. --Saving would reduce their budget, overspending increased it.

[Kalkin]

Meaningless? Vacuous?

It is no wonder why you are so unpopular.
Do you work in a theater? Your projection skills are unparalleled.

[Tahuyaman]

*breaking*

21330

Liberalism certainly isn't going to die. It is true that liberalsim is a failure, but liberals think that it's a screaming success. When there is an undeniable failure, they claim it failed because it wasn't applied properly. The opposition to the liberal solution created the failure.


In essence, liberalism is shifting even more to the socialist left.

[Chris]

Liberalism certainly isn't going to die. It is true that liberalsim is a failure, but liberals think that it's a screaming success. When there is an undeniable failure, they claim it failed because it wasn't applied properly. The opposition to the liberal solution created the failure.


In essence, liberalism is shifting even more to the socialist left.


She knows there's no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all

--Dylan


Failure gives liberals something more to fix, which breaks things, and gives them something more to fix...

[Tahuyaman]

In the mind of a liberal, their ideas only fail because they are not implemented to their fullest. They believe that without any opposition or dissent, their policies would all be a raving success and accepted as such by everyone.

[resister]

In the mind of a liberal, their ideas only fail because they are not implemented to their fullest. They believe that without any opposition or dissent, their policies would all be a raving success and accepted as such by everyone.
Always an excuse when they fail and it's always​ someone else's fault.

[Tahuyaman]

Always an excuse when they fail and it's always​ someone else's fault.

Precisely.



Then when policies succeed which are contrary to theirs, they either deny the successes hapoened or redefine success as failure.

[Chris]

In the mind of a liberal, their ideas only fail because they are not implemented to their fullest. They believe that without any opposition or dissent, their policies would all be a raving success and accepted as such by everyone.


Right, they just didn't throw enough money or smart people at it. So try try try again. :BangHead:

[Kalkin]

In the mind of a liberal, their ideas only fail because they are not implemented to their fullest. They believe that without any opposition or dissent, their policies would all be a raving success and accepted as such by everyone.

Much like an anthill or bee hive.

[Tahuyaman]

Right, they just didn't throw enough money or smart people at it. So try try try again. :BangHead: The money part is accurate. The smart people part..... not so much.

[Tahuyaman]

Much like an anthill or bee hive.. Not quite. In a bee hive or ant hill no one gets a free ride. There's no intentionally created dependency there.

[Adelaide]

Meaningless? Vacuous?

It is no wonder why you are so unpopular.


Do not insult other members.