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View Full Version : Pres.Trump to Delcare Jerusalem Israel's Capital, a"recognition of reality"



Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 09:37 AM
We now have a POTUS with the moral courage that his predecessors lacked, as Pres.Trump will declare the City of the Jews, Jerusalem, recognized by the US the Capital of Israel, against the pro-terror UN and other pro-terror nations complaints.

He will undo the outrageous Obama Lame Duck UN resolution declaring the city that has been the Jewish capital for MILLENIA before there ever was a single muslim, "occupied territory", thank God.

Nice to have a NON-POLITICIAN in charge of our nation for once....




White House: Jerusalem embassy move a 'recognition of reality'


CNN) President Donald Trump will recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday and direct the State Department to begin the process to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, senior administration officials said.
The decision, which is already being cheered by the President's supporters and the Israeli government, is expected to roil the region, with US Arab allies warning Trump on Tuesday that it will undermine regional stability and stymie the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians.

Trump will sign a waiver delaying the embassy move for another six months to comply with the law, as senior administration officials said it will take years for the move to be completed.

The Trump administration on Tuesday cast the move, which Trump will announce Wednesday at 1 p.m. ET, as a "recognition of reality" that Jerusalem has long been the seat of the Israeli government. Officials stressed that the decision would have no impact on the boundaries of future Israeli and Palestinian states as negotiated under a final status agreement.




http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politi...lem/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/trump-abbas-us-embassy-jerusalem/index.html)




It is LONG PAST TIME for this move...

stjames1_53
12-06-2017, 10:20 AM
.......where Obama encourage the Muslims to war against Israel

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:41 AM
This would increase tensions in the region. I would not make this move right now.

stjames1_53
12-06-2017, 11:51 AM
This would increase tensions in the region. I would not make this move right now.

there will never be a good time.

Don
12-06-2017, 11:51 AM
It should have been done by 1999 as the 1995 law called for. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act)

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:58 AM
I just think this is not a necessary move to make at this time.

Ethereal
12-06-2017, 12:37 PM
The Israeli lobby is a good example of actual meddling, interference, and collusion in the US political process. Yet Democrats have very little to say about it. Probably because they, too, are puppets of Israel.

Ethereal
12-06-2017, 12:43 PM
The level of deference, obedience, and consideration that the US political class shows towards Israel is an embarrassment and a disgrace.

Captdon
12-06-2017, 12:47 PM
The level of deference, obedience, and consideration that the US political class shows towards Israel is an embarrassment and a disgrace.

Sometimes when a nation is out-numbered 100-1 we need to help. We don't do any of the fighting.

Never again.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 12:54 PM
The Arab reaction is already in place. They have declared "three days of rage". That's the equivalent of a child stomping their feet.

exotix
12-06-2017, 12:55 PM
Multiple posting violation ... see here ...


http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/92158-State-Dept-issues-Travel-Warning-after-Trump-announces-Jerusalem-as-Israels-Capitol

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:02 PM
.......where Obama encourage the Muslims to war against Israel

Yeah...the Obamidiot declared the Western Wall to be "occupied territory" by the Israelis, despite that fact that it was built by the Hebrews 1,000+ years before a single muslim existed. What a friggin, terrorist-appeasing moron he was.

Thank GOD we have a POTUS now that knows our friends from our enemies...

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:03 PM
This would increase tensions in the region. I would not make this move right now.
There will never NOT be "tensions in the region", until the palestinians ACCEPT ISRAEL's RIGHT TO EXIST...

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:04 PM
Multiple posting violation ... see here ...


http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/92158-State-Dept-issues-Travel-Warning-after-Trump-announces-Jerusalem-as-Israels-Capitol
Ooops. The other one seemed to disappear....enjoy.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 01:05 PM
There will never NOT be "tensions in the region", until the palestinians ACCEPT ISRAEL's RIGHT TO EXIST...


Do you think this move will help create that situation? I don't.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:06 PM
It should have been done by 1999 as the 1995 law called for. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act)

Yep. We haven't had a POTUS with the cojones to confront the palestinians and their terror abettors around the world until now....

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:09 PM
I just think this is not a necessary move to make at this time.


I think it is a brilliant move, as it takes the disposition of Jerusalem OFF THE TABLE, which the terrorists have used as an excuse for their delay tactics, and constant increases in offensive weaponry and attacks on the civilians of Israel. Now they will see that JERUSALEM, will now, and FOREVER, be the Endless City of the Jews....

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:12 PM
Do you think this move will help create that situation? I don't.

Nope, And not doing it hasn't either. They will NEVER accept Israel's right to exist, when it is Jordan and Syria who have the MUCH LARGER THAN ISRAEL section of land that was set apart for "indigenous arabs" in the region in 1948, not Israel.

They refused their land, and tried to annihilate the Israelis before they could even establish a homeland. They failed.

NO ONE can get along with the Palestinians, even other arabs.

Look what happened when Jordan reached out to them....same shit, different country.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 01:12 PM
One of us is right and one of us is wrong. We'll see, won't we.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 01:15 PM
Multiple posting violation ... see here ...


http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/92158-State-Dept-issues-Travel-Warning-after-Trump-announces-Jerusalem-as-Israels-Capitol


BULLSHIT. This is an entirely different thread, with an entirely different link and THEME than your Standard Foamy-mouth Trump Bashing thread....

I argued my point with the powers that be, and I hope that they agree. They are pretty darned reasonable around here....

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 01:42 PM
I think the move is not going to suddenly create a situation where there will finally be honest negotiations. Of course, continuing on as we have for the last four decades hasn't worked either.

While I think this isn't a productive move, it is going to be entertaining to watch the liberal and anti Israel people have their predictable head exploding melt-down over this.


Those who post here will be completely predictable.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 02:58 PM
There is one thing I can respect about this announcement. The previous three or maybe even for president's promised to do this, but for whatever reason did not fulfil that promise

One can disagree with this, but it was a campaign promise Trump was adamant about.

Don
12-06-2017, 03:12 PM
There is one thing I can respect about this announcement. The previous three or maybe even for president's promised to do this, but for whatever reason did not fulfill that promise

One can disagree with this, but it was a campaign promise Trump was adamant about.

You're right. When they campaigned to American Jews they were all for it. Once in office not so much. All of them for a long time lied to just about every group they campaigned in front of promising to be their man in Washington. All of them probably laughed about how gullible people were as soon as they left the rally. That's probably why they are more shocked than anybody when a president actually follows through. President Trump is ruining the game for them. As for the "Palestinian" days of rage, when haven't they been raging?

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 03:51 PM
There is one thing I can respect about this announcement. The previous three or maybe even for president's promised to do this, but for whatever reason did not fulfil that promise

One can disagree with this, but it was a campaign promise Trump was adamant about.
Therein lies the problem. Its purely political to fulfill a promise. I'm ambivalent about it but the question I have is what is the strategic point of it? How does it advance our interests? This is like a lot of Trump moves to do something for the appearance without much though as to why its a good thing to do from a strategic point of view. It really makes no sense. It appears to just be a "stick it to em" type move.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 03:57 PM
Therein lies the problem. Its purely political to fulfill a promise. I'm ambivalent about it but the question I have is what is the strategic point of it? How does it advance our interests? This is like a lot of Trump moves to do something for the appearance without much though as to why its a good thing to do from a strategic point of view. It really makes no sense. It appears to just be a "stick it to em" type move.


It's political to fulfill a promise? Is this an opinion you just developed today or have you been consistent with that during the previous eight years?

I would say it's political to make a promise knowing full well you have no intention of following through when and if you win the election. That is political pandering and a "stick it to em" type move. You have it backwards.

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 04:08 PM
It's political to fulfill a promise? Is this an opinion you just developed today or have you been consistent with that during the previous eight years?

I would say it's political to make a promise knowing full well you have no intention of following through when and if you win the election. That is political pandering and a "stick it to em" type move. You have it backwards.
No I haven't recently developed this opinion. There are many instances where one makes a promise and then gets into office only to find that things aren't what they seemed. You criticize me and that's fine yet you didn't answer the fundamental question. What is the point of something like this from a geostrategic point of view and advancement of the ME peace process? As far as I can tell there is no point in that regard.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 04:29 PM
No I haven't recently developed this opinion. There are many instances where one makes a promise and then gets into office only to find that things aren't what they seemed. You criticize me and that's fine yet you didn't answer the fundamental question. What is the point of something like this from a geostrategic point of view and advancement of the ME peace process? As far as I can tell there is no point in that regard. Where did I criticize you? I am asking you to tell me how it's political to fulfill a campaign promise?

Your asking "what's the point" is a diversion. The point is that this was one of his promises, just as it was the previous three or four US president's but this one finally fulfilled it.

He's not claiming that it is going to foster peace in the ME. That being said, nothing else done in the past has either. The only thing which helps maintain peace in the region is to leave Irsrael alone and let them crush the people who intend to eliminate their society.

Elections have consequences. One of those consequences is that sometimes they fulfill a campaign promise.

How do you view the those occasions when they ignore campaign promises? Specifically those promises made which they never intended to keep when they made them?

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 05:33 PM
Where did I criticize you? I am asking you to tell me how it's political to fulfill a campaign promise?

Your asking "what's the point" is a diversion. The point is that this was one of his promises, just as it was the previous three or four US president's but this one finally fulfilled it.

He's not claiming that it is going to foster peace in the ME. That being said, nothing else done in the past has either. The only thing which helps maintain peace in the region is to leave Irsrael alone and let them crush the people who intend to eliminate their society.

Elections have consequences. One of those consequences is that sometimes they fulfill a campaign promise.

How do you view the those occasions when they ignore campaign promises? Specifically those promises made which they never intended to keep when they made them?
Yous said I had it backwards. That's a criticism. That's fine too. I'm not that thin skinned. The point I was trying to make was that often time campaign promises butt up against reality when one gets into the office and learns (hopefully) that things aren't what they seemed to be. I'm sure there have been unfulfilled campaign promises that were sincere when on the campaign trail that changed once in office. On the other hand, just to fulfill a campaign promise for its own sake when it might be detrimental is not wise IMO. You seem to be saying that Trumps move is valid simply because it was a campaign promise and that is fine in and of itself. I simply asked and questioned what is the point of the policy beyond that.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 05:36 PM
The point is supporting an ally.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 05:38 PM
Yous said I had it backwards. That's a criticism. That's fine too. I'm not that thin skinned. The point I was trying to make was that often time campaign promises butt up against reality when one gets into the office and learns (hopefully) that things aren't what they seemed to be. I'm sure there have been unfulfilled campaign promises that were sincere when on the campaign trail that changed once in office. On the other hand, just to fulfill a campaign promise for its own sake when it might be detrimental is not wise IMO. You seem to be saying that Trumps move is valid simply because it was a campaign promise and that is fine in and of itself. I simply asked and questioned what is the point of the policy beyond that.

I should never see you criticizing Trump for breaking a campaign promise, right?
One of your points is odd. You say that they sometimes break a promise because they discover the reality of a situation is different than they thought? How could that be? Generally these candidates are DC insiders who know exactly what's going on and surround themselves with other in the know insiders.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 06:02 PM
Therein lies the problem. Its purely political to fulfill a promise. I'm ambivalent about it but the question I have is what is the strategic point of it? How does it advance our interests? This is like a lot of Trump moves to do something for the appearance without much though as to why its a good thing to do from a strategic point of view. It really makes no sense. It appears to just be a "stick it to em" type move.
Does Israel claim Jerusalem is the capital of their state?

Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 06:02 PM
Yous said I had it backwards. That's a criticism. That's fine too. I'm not that thin skinned. The point I was trying to make was that often time campaign promises butt up against reality when one gets into the office and learns (hopefully) that things aren't what they seemed to be. I'm sure there have been unfulfilled campaign promises that were sincere when on the campaign trail that changed once in office. On the other hand, just to fulfill a campaign promise for its own sake when it might be detrimental is not wise IMO. You seem to be saying that Trumps move is valid simply because it was a campaign promise and that is fine in and of itself. I simply asked and questioned what is the point of the policy beyond that.
Are you a man or are you a woman?

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 06:49 PM
Does anyone give a fuck about the Palestinians? I don't.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 06:53 PM
Does anyone give a $#@! about the Palestinians? I don't.

Most Arabs don't either.

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 07:35 PM
I should never see you criticizing Trump for breaking a campaign promise, right?
One of your points is odd. You say that they sometimes break a promise because they discover the reality of a situation is different than they thought? How could that be? Generally these candidates are DC insiders who know exactly what's going on and surround themselves with other in the know insiders.
Probably sometimes, somtimes not

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 07:37 PM
21388

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 07:39 PM
Does Israel claim Jerusalem is the capital of their state?

Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

I can't argue with that. I hope you continue to apply that point of view universally.

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 07:41 PM
Does anyone give a $#@! about the Palestinians? I don't.

Hmmm. Interesting

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 07:46 PM
I can't argue with that. I hope you continue to apply that point of view universally.

Jerusalem was the "City of the Jews" for MILLENIA BEFORE A SINGLLE MUSLIM EXISTED....

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 07:48 PM
Jerusalem was the "City of the Jews" for MILLENIA BEFORE A SINGLLE MUSLIM EXISTED....
Ok

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 07:52 PM
I'll continue to ask. Since we have an America first agenda how is this in the best interest of the US.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 07:55 PM
I'll continue to ask. Since we have an America first agenda how is this in the best interest of the US.
Takes the issue off of the table as a delaying move by the cockroaches, and shows unabashed support for our major ally in the Middle East. Win/win.

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 07:59 PM
Are you a man or are you a woman?

Not sure why that matters but I have a Y chromosome.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 08:00 PM
Not sure why that matters but I have a Y chromosome.
Hence " 'meister" as opposed to ' "meistress" !!! :grin:

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 09:29 PM
Hence " 'meister" as opposed to ' "meistress" !!! :grin:

LOL! Good observation.

ripmeister
12-06-2017, 09:31 PM
One last observation. If the consummate deal maker had been on his game he could have used this carrot to extract concessions from Bibi regarding settlement expansion. Instead, he got nothing for it except perhaps some bragging rights.

Dr. Who
12-06-2017, 10:47 PM
Yeah...the Obamidiot declared the Western Wall to be "occupied territory" by the Israelis, despite that fact that it was built by the Hebrews 1,000+ years before a single muslim existed. What a friggin, terrorist-appeasing moron he was.

Thank GOD we have a POTUS now that knows our friends from our enemies...
I don't think you want to go into who owns what based on history. Otherwise, you would have to say that the land that currently forms the USA belongs to the native peoples of North America. Furthermore, I think that if you leave a place for a thousand years, it is no longer yours. Not to mention that religion is not ethnicity. The people who remained in the region may have changed religions several times. It doesn't change their claim to the territory, since they stayed until they were evicted by a bunch of Europeans backed by the most powerful governments in the world in order to avoid an invasion of Jewish refugees in their own lands.

Dr. Who
12-06-2017, 10:50 PM
Are you a man or are you a woman?
Does it matter?

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:03 PM
One last observation. If the consummate deal maker had been on his game he could have used this carrot to extract concessions from Bibi regarding settlement expansion. Instead, he got nothing for it except perhaps some bragging rights.

Except that the consummate deal maker is on Bibi's side, not the cockroaches'. The Israelis should have never given back the West Bank, Gaza, OR Sinai. All are staging areas for attacks on the people of Israel....

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:07 PM
I don't think you want to go into who owns what based on history. Otherwise, you would have to say that the land that currently forms the USA belongs to the native peoples of North America. Furthermore, I think that if you leave a place for a thousand years, it is no longer yours. Not to mention that religion is not ethnicity. The people who remained in the region may have changed religions several times. It doesn't change their claim to the territory, since they stayed until they were evicted by a bunch of Europeans backed by the most powerful governments in the world in order to avoid an invasion of Jewish refugees in their own lands.

Sure I do. In 1948 the indigenous arabs (what the "Palestinians" used to be called), were offered a tract of land to establish their own autonomous nation, MUCH LARGER THAN ISRAEL, but refused to accept it, choosing instead to attack the fledgling Israeli nation, and got their asses kicked, along with all the other arab nations who were in on it. Tough shit for them.



Jordan and Syria took their land. You want to go back further? FINE.



Jerusalem has been the City of the Jews for MILLENIA before any muslim ever darkened the Earth. It is THEIRS... the muslims even try to usurp Judaism itself, as all islam is , is bastardized Judaism....they want to be "the REAL Jews"....SCREW 'EM.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:11 PM
I'll continue to ask. Since we have an America first agenda how is this in the best interest of the US.
This ends the goofy idea that the US can be bullied by the idiot Palestinians. It is in our best interest to have our embassy in the host nation's capital. Why was Israel made a special case where this nation's enemies held a veto over where we placed our embassy?

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:12 PM
This would increase tensions in the region. I would not make this move right now.
People like you would never make the move. Fortunately, you are not the President.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:13 PM
The level of deference, obedience, and consideration that the US political class shows towards Israel is an embarrassment and a disgrace.
This is simply goofy. Our embassy should be in the host nation's capital city.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:15 PM
One of us is right and one of us is wrong. We'll see, won't we.
It is already clear. It is not you.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:17 PM
I can't argue with that. I hope you continue to apply that point of view universally.
I am quite certain you and I will seldom agree on what the right thing is.

Dr. Who
12-06-2017, 11:17 PM
Does Israel claim Jerusalem is the capital of their state?

Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

Why is it the right thing to do? The Jews left following religious persecution and waited 1000 years to try to return. Zionism (the right of return) wasn't even a word until the 19th century. The people who stayed are unwilling to lay down and die. The world population of Jews is just over 14 million of which just over 6 million live in Israel. At this point they are living on top of each other in Israel and without taking lands from other states people there will have to stop having children, which would not go down well for the very orthodox. It is an anachronism to believe that all people of a given religion have the right to live in a limited historical region and it is also an anathema to presume that the rights of people who have very little remaining Semitic DNA have a right to expropriate others whose ancestral history in that region is uninterrupted over some trumped up notion of religious rights of return that finds no applicability or support anywhere else in the world for any other religion.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:18 PM
It is already clear. It is not you.

You're in that mode again where a rational discussion with you is impossible. It happens every day. Just disagree with you and there it is. Just like the average liberal.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:18 PM
Not sure why that matters but I have a Y chromosome.
It would be impolite for me to ask you to stop being so girly if you were one.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:20 PM
Why is it the right thing to do? The Jews left following religious persecution and waited 1000 years to try to return. Zionism (the right of return) wasn't even a word until the 19th century. The people who stayed are unwilling to lay down and die. The world population of Jews is just over 14 million of which just over 6 million live in Israel. At this point they are living on top of each other in Israel and without taking lands from other states people there will have to stop having children, which would not go down well for the very orthodox. It is an anachronism to believe that all people of a given religion have the right to live in a limited historical region and it is also an anathema to presume that the rights of people who have very little remaining Semitic DNA have a right to expropriate others whose ancestral history in that region is uninterrupted over some trumped up notion of religious rights of return that finds no applicability or support anywhere else in the world for any other religion.
It is the right thing to do because we place our embassies in the host country's capital. We do that for a reason. Do you know what the reason is?

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:21 PM
You're in that mode again where a rational discussion with you is impossible. It happens every day. Just disagree with you and there it is. Just like the average liberal.
You wander around in the wilderness making your goofy stream of consciousness posts. It is your fault. Try thinking before you post.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:23 PM
This would increase tensions in the region. I would not make this move right now.

I agree. I started a thread about this and disagreed with it. I don't see the value added, especially considering the extreme expense of creating an embassy to State Department security standards. If they just dropped a double wide trailer into East Jerusalem I may rethink my position, since that would cost maybe $25K.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:24 PM
It should have been done by 1999 as the 1995 law called for. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act)

Why?

What benefit does the US get from it?

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:26 PM
Sometimes when a nation is out-numbered 100-1 we need to help. We don't do any of the fighting.

Never again.


Israel is more than capable of defending itself. Furthermore, the US is a sovereign nation and its primary mission is to defend US national security interests. Not the interests of other nations.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:32 PM
I agree. I started a thread about this and disagreed with it. I don't see the value added, especially considering the extreme expense of creating an embassy to State Department security standards. If they just dropped a double wide trailer into East Jerusalem I may rethink my position, since that would cost maybe $25K.

I understand the idea of supporting an ally, but there is no benefit to the US by making this move.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:33 PM
I agree. I started a thread about this and disagreed with it. I don't see the value added, especially considering the extreme expense of creating an embassy to State Department security standards. If they just dropped a double wide trailer into East Jerusalem I may rethink my position, since that would cost maybe $25K.
We have a consulate building there already, that looks pretty nice....probably use it.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:33 PM
I understand the idea of supporting an ally, but there is no benefit to the US by making this move.

Clarifies the fact that the Obama Era is OVER. Diplomatic direct hit.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:34 PM
Does it matter?
Yes.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:34 PM
You wander around in the wilderness making your goofy stream of consciousness posts. It is your fault. Try thinking before you post.
As you follow me around sniffing my ass.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:36 PM
We have a consulate building there already, that looks pretty nice....probably use it.


I bet it doesn't meet the standards for an embassy.

Especially in a danger zone. Look up the cost to build our embassy in Baghdad.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:37 PM
Why?

What benefit does the US get from it?
Our embassy belongs in the host country capital city. In Israel's case, their capital city is Jerusalem.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:37 PM
As you follow me around sniffing my ass.
Try not to be childish. If you can.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:37 PM
Clarifies the fact that the Obama Era is OVER. Diplomatic direct hit.


Is there any other benefit? Besides, there are many ways one can demonstrate that the indecisiveness and incompetence of the Obama era is over.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:38 PM
I understand the idea of supporting an ally, but there is no benefit to the US by making this move.

The move makes zero sense to me. But that is because I am focused on US national security interests. Israel wears big-boy pants and can take care of itself.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:38 PM
I understand the idea of supporting an ally, but there is no benefit to the US by making this move.
We place embassies in capital cities. Do you know why?

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:39 PM
Try not to be childish. If you can.
WTF is your problem? Do you require complete agreement all the time?


Never mind...... Silly question.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:39 PM
The move makes zero sense to me. But that is because I am focused on US national security interests. Israel wears big-boy pants and can take care of itself.
This is a blind spot for you.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:40 PM
WTF is your problem? Do you require complete agreement all the time?
Never mind...... Silly question.
Isn't it clear? You post one stupid thing after another. Stop it. Do try to think before you post.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:40 PM
Is there any other benefit? Besides, there are many ways one can demonstrate that the indecisiveness and incompetence of the Obama era is over.

That's plenty of benefit; shows the UN that the new Sheriff isn't having their bullshit...the rest of the islamapologist world as well. Brilliant power play.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:40 PM
We place embassies in capital cities. Do you know why? How does the US receive a benefit from this move?

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:40 PM
Our embassy belongs in the host country capital city. In Israel's case, their capital city is Jerusalem.

I think it is counter-productive.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:41 PM
How does the US receive a benefit from this move?

By a show of strength, which is a MASSIVE BENEFIT to diplomatic entreaties, ALWAYS...

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:42 PM
It would be nice to focus on US national security interests rather than the interest of others.

But I am a nationalist and not a globalist.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:42 PM
How does the US receive a benefit from this move?
Do you know why we place embassies in foreign countries? If you know why the benefit will be obvious to you.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:44 PM
I think it is counter-productive.
That is because you have a blind spot. We have many daily contacts at many levels with the host nation's leaders. We place our embassies in the host nation capitals to facilitate our desire for contacts.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:44 PM
It would be nice to focus on US national security interests rather than the interest of others.

But I am a nationalist and not a globalist.


So am I, and the POTUS projecting STRENGTH in the face of our enemies is MASSIVELY IN OUR INTERESTS.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:45 PM
It would be nice to focus on US national security interests rather than the interest of others.
But I am a nationalist and not a globalist.
It is in our national security interest to have our embassies in the host country capitals. This is very basic stuff.

Grokmaster
12-06-2017, 11:47 PM
It is in our national security interest to have our embassies in the host country capitals. This is very basic stuff.
Israel was the only nation on Earth where we did not, AS AN ACCOMODATION to the cockroaches, and their abettors in the UN....

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:47 PM
That is because you have a blind spot. We have many daily contacts at many levels with the host nation's leaders. We place our embassies in the host nation capitals to facilitate our desire for contacts.

You can run across Israel in a day.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:49 PM
By a show of strength, which is a MASSIVE BENEFIT to diplomatic entreaties, ALWAYS...


That's not akin to a show of strength. The fact is, there is no tangible benefit from this move. Diplomatically it is an obvious mistake.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:52 PM
You can run across Israel in a day.
Running across Israel is not why we place embassies in capitals.

This is an area where you need to grow if you want to consider yourself a serious national security contender. This is very basic stuff. I admit I am embarassed for you. You are not Tayu. You really should know better.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:53 PM
So am I, and the POTUS projecting STRENGTH in the face of our enemies is MASSIVELY IN OUR INTERESTS.

What do we get out of it?

Can we at least get the Israelis to pay for the new embassy to the exacting State Department standards. Likely over a billion to build the damn thing.

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:54 PM
You can run across Israel in a day.

Some can and some can't. It depends on the condition of one's knees.

Bethere
12-06-2017, 11:56 PM
You can run across Israel in a day.

It's possible to run across Israel In less than an hour.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:57 PM
I admit there is a small chance that this move will force the Palestinians to the peace table in a serious way. If so, Trump will be seen as one of the greatest international leaders in the 21st Century. That would put the libs in a coma.

I just don't really care about peace in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - that is for them to work out. NOPD. (Not our problem dude)

Tahuyaman
12-06-2017, 11:57 PM
What do we get out of it?

Can we at least get the Israelis to pay for the new embassy to the exacting State Department standards. Likely over a billion to build the damn thing.

That's never going to be answered because there's no real substantive answer. It's symbolic diplomacy.

MisterVeritis
12-06-2017, 11:57 PM
It's possible to run across Israel In less than an hour.
Feel free to do so. Meanwhile, we place our embassies in the host nation's capital cities. Jerusalem is Israel's capital city.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:58 PM
It's possible to run across Israel In less than an hour.
In 88 we got lost there and ended up in Gaza.

Peter1469
12-06-2017, 11:59 PM
Some can and some can't. It depends on the condition of one's knees.
Point taken. I was reminded of that yesterday when I went for a run.

Tahuyaman
12-07-2017, 12:00 AM
I admit there is a small chance that this move will force the Palestinians to the peace table in a serious way. If so, Trump will be seen as one of the greatest international leaders in the 21st Century. That would put the libs in a coma.

I just don't really care about peace in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - that is for them to work out. NOPD. (Not our problem dude)

I don't see it forcing the Palestinians to do anything. What it does show is that the US has a president who is willing to buck the status quo. That's all.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 12:00 AM
Sure I do. In 1948 the indigenous arabs (what the "Palestinians" used to be called), were offered a tract of land to establish their own autonomous nation, MUCH LARGER THAN ISRAEL, but refused to accept it, choosing instead to attack the fledgling Israeli nation, and got their asses kicked, along with all the other arab nations who were in on it. Tough shit for them.



Jordan and Syria took their land. You want to go back further? FINE.



Jerusalem has been the City of the Jews for MILLENIA before any muslim ever darkened the Earth. It is THEIRS... the muslims even try to usurp Judaism itself, as all islam is , is bastardized Judaism....they want to be "the REAL Jews"....SCREW 'EM.

Of course that's why the state of Israel has treated the indigenous Jews so well. (sarcasm) Not all Jews left Israel, despite popular belief - some actually stayed for MILLENNIA despite the persecution. Guess what? They got the same treatment as the indigenous Arabs by the Israeli government. Their farms were expropriated and they were made homeless. I met some of them. Of course, they were not exactly white and certainly not European. In fact, they got along with Arabs very well and had far more in common with them than the European invaders.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 12:06 AM
I don't see it forcing the Palestinians to do anything. What it does show is that the US has a president who is willing to buck the status quo. That's all.

If it creates something positive I will be surprised. But I am still trying to plug in the US vital interest.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 12:07 AM
It is the right thing to do because we place our embassies in the host country's capital. We do that for a reason. Do you know what the reason is?
Irrelevant when meddling in an issue that has not been resolved between the interested parties, particularly when one party uses the veto power of the US to avoid sanctions. Push may come to shove.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 12:08 AM
Yes.

Why?

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 12:10 AM
Irrelevant when meddling in an issue that has not been resolved between the interested parties, particularly when one party uses the veto power of the US to avoid sanctions. Push may come to shove.
There is nothing irrelevant about placing our embassy in the host nation's capital city. Where we place our embassy is of no concern to anyone other than us and the Israeli government.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 12:10 AM
Why?
He was being girly. It would be impolite to call him on it if he was a girl.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 01:02 AM
He was being girly. It would be impolite to call him on it if he was a girl.

I see. Your condescension regarding female opinions is noted.

resister
12-07-2017, 01:07 AM
I hear so much about anti Semitism, is objection to this, the same? Deny Isreal their country seat? Deny their legitimacy?

Trish
12-07-2017, 01:51 AM
Clarifies the fact that the Obama Era is OVER. Diplomatic direct hit.
This is a weird statement...........

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 07:20 AM
Irrelevant when meddling in an issue that has not been resolved between the interested parties, particularly when one party uses the veto power of the US to avoid sanctions. Push may come to shove.


There is nothing to "resolve" as far as Jerusalem goes. It has ALWAYS BEEN the Israelite's city. They BUILT IT, millenia ago.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 07:21 AM
Of course that's why the state of Israel has treated the indigenous Jews so well. (sarcasm) Not all Jews left Israel, despite popular belief - some actually stayed for MILLENNIA despite the persecution. Guess what? They got the same treatment as the indigenous Arabs by the Israeli government. Their farms were expropriated and they were made homeless. I met some of them. Of course, they were not exactly white and certainly not European. In fact, they got along with Arabs very well and had far more in common with them than the European invaders.

Which is completely irrelevant as to whose city Jerusalem is, and has always been.

Tahuyaman
12-07-2017, 09:33 AM
I hear so much about anti Semitism, is objection to this, the same? Deny Isreal their country seat? Deny their legitimacy?

No one is denying Israel anything in this case.

Tahuyaman
12-07-2017, 09:34 AM
This is a weird statement...........

I understand the comment and can see why that is important, but this isn't the best way to accomplish that.

ripmeister
12-07-2017, 10:26 AM
It would be impolite for me to ask you to stop being so girly if you were one.
I've never seen you worry about being impolite. If you want to use missives that's fine by me. I'm secure in who I am. Are you?

ripmeister
12-07-2017, 10:33 AM
I don't see it forcing the Palestinians to do anything. What it does show is that the US has a president who is willing to buck the status quo. That's all.

This is what its about. Its pretty simple really. Trump making a statement without reasoned consideration as to the consequences. He does this a lot.

Ethereal
12-07-2017, 10:36 AM
I don't see it forcing the Palestinians to do anything. What it does show is that the US has a president who is willing to buck the status quo. That's all.
Kissing Israel's ass is not bucking the status quo.

Tahuyaman
12-07-2017, 10:39 AM
This is what its about. Its pretty simple really. Trump making a statement without reasoned consideration as to the consequences. He does this a lot.

I think he did consider the consequences. He just didn't consider them in the same way you would. Time will tell if this is a right or wrong move.

ripmeister
12-07-2017, 10:49 AM
I think he did consider the consequences. He just didn't consider them in the same way you would. Time will tell if this is a right or wrong move.
We'll disagree on that. I think he rarely puts much thought into what he does. He's reactionary. A lot of people like his shoot from the hip style. Its concerning to me.

Tahuyaman
12-07-2017, 10:58 AM
We'll disagree on that. I think he rarely puts much thought into what he does. He's reactionary. A lot of people like his shoot from the hip style. Its concerning to me.
Seeing that he said more than a year ago that he was going to do this means that it wasn't reactionary or shooting from the hip.

nic34
12-07-2017, 11:00 AM
This would increase tensions in the region. I would not make this move right now.

Right, what's the worst that could happen?

Tahuyaman
12-07-2017, 11:02 AM
Right, what's the worst that could happen?Things remain the same....

nic34
12-07-2017, 11:04 AM
This is a weird statement...........

Thats what this administration is all about...sticking fingers in the dems eyes any chance he gets. Especially if it's Obama or Hillary.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 11:15 AM
I see. Your condescension regarding female opinions is noted.
Women who act like women are fine. Men who act like women are not.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 11:16 AM
I've never seen you worry about being impolite. If you want to use missives that's fine by me. I'm secure in who I am. Are you?
Why yes. Yes, I am.

ripmeister
12-07-2017, 11:57 AM
Women who act like women are fine. Men who act like women are not.
I guess I'm being accused of acting like a woman? What exactly does that mean, to "act like a woman" ?

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 01:32 PM
I guess I'm being accused of acting like a woman? What exactly does that mean, to "act like a woman" ?
Girly. Effeminate. Soft and squishy. Feeling rather than reasoning. It is an observation.

Not that it matters. Jerusalem is Israel's capital. The US will build an embassy in Israel's capital. It really does not matter how you feel about it.

leekohler2
12-07-2017, 01:33 PM
I guess I'm being accused of acting like a woman? What exactly does that mean, to "act like a woman" ?

Ignore him.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 01:34 PM
Pres.Trump, once again, fulfills the Will of the People with his open support of Israel, and his clear lack of fear in confronting our enemies, as opposed to doing the Obamagrovel and payoff.....

exotix
12-07-2017, 01:57 PM
Pres.Trump, once again, fulfills the Will of the People with his open support of Israel, and his clear lack of fear in confronting our enemies, as opposed to doing the Obamagrovel and payoff.....TFS (Trumpf Fantasmal Syndrome)



A majority of one is pushing for embassy move — Sheldon Adelson

http://mondoweiss.net/2017/12/jerusalem-failure-century/


As we all brace for Donald Trump to say he will move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, people are speculating why, and last night David Makovsky, a pro-Israel analyst who favors moving the embassy, said that Trump will play to his domestic “base” by moving the embassy.

Shibley Telhami of Brookings promptly debunked that claim, saying on the PBS News Hour that his polling (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2017/12/05/why-is-trump-about-to-declare-jerusalem-the-capital-of-israel/) shows that voters are not pushing for the move: 63 percent of Americans oppose moving the embassy to Jerusalem, including 44 percent of Republicans. “While 53 percent of Evangelicals support the move, 40 percent oppose it.”


Telhami offered his own theory: Trump will use the uproar over the (anticipated) move of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem to cover for the failure of his vaunted “deal of the century” between Israelis and Palestinians:


Why do it? What’s driving the president to do it? There’s no pressure from the Israelis.
There’s no pressure on him from the Arab world.
It doesn’t advance America’s ends in the Middle East, so why is he doing it?

… This issue plays into the hands of America’s enemies in the Middle East… I don’t see an upside, that’s why I’m led to a belief that maybe the administration has already given up on making peace and they think this will enable them to blame someone else.”


Telhami and Makovsky are both leaving out one person who is pushing for this: Just Trump’s biggest donor.

Eli Clifton notes that Sheldon Adelson– (http://lobelog.com/trumps-biggest-donor-pushed-for-jerusalem-embassy-move/?utm_content=buffercb0ea&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) who along with his wife Miriam are Trump’s biggest donors at $35 million — has expressed impatience with the Trump administration’s failure to move the embassy, and expressed fury when Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said he was opposed to the move.

Adelson’s own newspaper in Nevada said that Adelson was nettled by Trump’s hesitancy to move the embassy, in October (https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/adelsons-meet-with-trump-discuss-las-vegas-shooting/).


While the Times of Israel said that Adelson was so pissed (https://www.timesofisrael.com/adelson-miffed-at-trump-over-embassy-about-face-said-to-shut-spigot/) last spring, that he had shut off the “spigot” of cash to Trump.


Trump has a history of pleasing Adelson, which Clifton has documented (https://lobelog.com/has-trump-become-adelsons-perfect-little-puppet/):


Trump dramatically changed his message on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular, saying that he would move the embassy to Jerusalem and wouldn’t call for a freeze on the construction of illegal settlements in the West Bank, as he closed in on the nomination and sought to secure Adelson’s support for his general election campaign.




The failure to talk about Sheldon Adelson’s influence is scandalous when you consider that Adelson did the same thing in the George W. Bush Administration, 18 years ago.


Alarmed by the possible division of Jerusalem at Camp David in 2000, neoconservatives including Douglas Feith founded a group called One Jerusalem.


Adelson gave money to that group (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/06/30/the-brass-ring)


https://d3atagt0rnqk7k.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/27150353/sheldon-adelson-money-1280x800.jpg

Orion Rules
12-07-2017, 02:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N80KDoyYag

Orion Rules
12-07-2017, 03:10 PM
On another note, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas as all the other contingents have never seemed to concede to the fact that this man was right, like him or hate him, what he stated then is still the truth!

There will be no two-state solution, in terms of two peoples who have basically been fighting each other over lands, territories and human rights abuses for how long they have not liked each other for abuses.

There is absolutely zero reasons the Palestinians and Arabs cannot build another homeland to give freedom to a people who has suffered long enough being the reason the peace process falls apart for rockets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIpXpRnV-oY

ripmeister
12-07-2017, 04:13 PM
Ignore him.
Oh that's ok. I like the banter and have thick skin, especially when it comes to his type.

The Xl
12-07-2017, 04:13 PM
They all bow to Israel, one way or another. The amount of influence Israel/Jewish people have over America is disgusting and alarming.

ripmeister
12-07-2017, 04:14 PM
Pres.Trump, once again, fulfills the Will of the People with his open support of Israel, and his clear lack of fear in confronting our enemies, as opposed to doing the Obamagrovel and payoff.....
I think will of the people is a stretch. Frankly, most Americans don't care about this. It would be more accurate to say will of the special interests and donors.

The Xl
12-07-2017, 04:18 PM
Nope, And not doing it hasn't either. They will NEVER accept Israel's right to exist, when it is Jordan and Syria who have the MUCH LARGER THAN ISRAEL section of land that was set apart for "indigenous arabs" in the region in 1948, not Israel.

They refused their land, and tried to annihilate the Israelis before they could even establish a homeland. They failed.

NO ONE can get along with the Palestinians, even other arabs.

Look what happened when Jordan reached out to them....same shit, different country.

What's done is done, but Israel and the West didn't have a right to displace them from their land in the first place.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 04:21 PM
That's not akin to a show of strength. The fact is, there is no tangible benefit from this move. Diplomatically it is an obvious mistake.

Counter productive to what? There has been no progress there since forever.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 04:25 PM
What's done is done, but Israel and the West didn't have a right to displace them from their land in the first place.

The world disagreed in 1948 .

The Xl
12-07-2017, 04:42 PM
The world disagreed in 1948 .

Lol, so if the rest of the world "agreed" to divide up the US land and give half of it to Mexico and Canada, and migrating Syrian refugees, you'd be okay with that? Because it's the same exact thing.

Who the fuck cares what the rest of the world thought? When did you become a globalist?

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 04:57 PM
Lol, so if the rest of the world "agreed" to divide up the US land and give half of it to Mexico and Canada, and migrating Syrian refugees, you'd be okay with that? Because it's the same exact thing.

Who the fuck cares what the rest of the world thought? When did you become a globalist?
It doesn't matter what we think. Israel is a nation whos capital is Jerusalem.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 05:49 PM
The US needs to focus on US vital national security interests. We don't need to move our embassy. It is a waste of money.

stjames1_53
12-07-2017, 05:51 PM
We'll disagree on that. I think he rarely puts much thought into what he does. He's reactionary. A lot of people like his shoot from the hip style. Its concerning to me.
he's kept you guys busy chasing his tail..I'd say he's deep under your skin, just where he wants to be

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 05:58 PM
There is nothing to "resolve" as far as Jerusalem goes. It has ALWAYS BEEN the Israelite's city. They BUILT IT, millenia ago.

Incorrect.


One of the oldest cities in the world, Jerusalem was named as "Urusalima" on ancient Mesopotamian cuneiform tablets, probably meaning "City of Shalem" after a Canaanite deity, during the early Canaanite period (approximately 2400 BCE). During the Israelite period, significant construction activity in Jerusalem began in the 9th century BCE (Iron Age II), and in the 8th century the city developed into the religious and administrative center of the Kingdom of Judah.[7] During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.[8] The part of Jerusalem called the City of David was settled in the 4th millennium BCE.[9] In 1538, walls were built around Jerusalem under Suleiman the Magnificent. Today those walls define the Old City, which has been traditionally divided into four quarters—known since the early 19th century as the Armenian, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Quarters.[10] The Old City became a World Heritage Site in 1981, and is on the List of World Heritage in Danger.[11] Modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond the Old City's boundaries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 06:09 PM
Women who act like women are fine. Men who act like women are not.
How about women who sound like men on internet forums?

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 07:20 PM
The US needs to focus on US vital national security interests. We don't need to move our embassy. It is a waste of money.
Fortunately you are not in charge. And you do have a blind spot. It is time to brush up on what embassies do. You can thank me later.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 07:21 PM
How about women who sound like men on internet forums?
It is rare to find men or women these days who reason like men.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 07:22 PM
Ignore him.
It works for you. I am sure it will work for him too. You two are like peas in a pod.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 07:24 PM
Fortunately you are not in charge. And you do have a blind spot. It is time to brush up on what embassies do. You can thank me later.

I am not in charge and I don't want to be in charge.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 07:25 PM
I am not in charge and I don't want to be in charge.
Spend some time learning about what occurs in embassies. We do not place embassies in the host nation capital as a benefit to the host nation. We do it for our benefit.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 07:27 PM
Spend some time learning about what occurs in embassies. We do not place embassies in the host nation capital as a benefit to the host nation. We do it for our benefit.

I realize that. I still see no reason to kick the beehive. If it works I will admit that I was wrong.

For now, I see it as a waste of tax payer dollars.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 07:51 PM
It is rare to find men or women these days who reason like men.

Do you consider conservativism to be masculine?

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 07:53 PM
I realize that. I still see no reason to kick the beehive. If it works I will admit that I was wrong.

For now, I see it as a waste of tax payer dollars.
It is not about kicking beehives. But if the Palestinians want a war they ought to get one.

Are there any other nations where we do not place our embassy in their capital in order to appease bad people?

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 07:55 PM
Do you consider conservativism to be masculine?
That is an odd question. I suggest a different question. Have we moved away from Constitutionalism as we became feminized?

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 07:57 PM
It is not about kicking beehives. But if the Palestinians want a war they ought to get one.
That is an Israeli concern. Not a US concern.

MisterVeritis
12-07-2017, 08:00 PM
It is not about kicking beehives. But if the Palestinians want a war they ought to get one.

That is an Israeli concern. Not a US concern.
You raised it. Not me. I am confident the Israelis are up to it.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 08:02 PM
It is not about kicking beehives. But if the Palestinians want a war they ought to get one.

You raised it. Not me. I am confident the Israelis are up to it.
Me too. They are impressive. I got to work with some back in 1988. The commander of the entire southern border was a reserve major.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 08:04 PM
That is an odd question. I suggest a different question. Have we moved away from Constitutionalism as we became feminized?

It appears that you are suggesting that Constitutionalism is masculine and anything else is feminine.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 08:55 PM
That is an Israeli concern. Not a US concern.

How so? The palestininans are OUR ENEMIES , also. One of them assassinated RFK, for Pete's sake. What does it take to get people to recognize our enemies?

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 08:59 PM
How so? The palestininans are OUR ENEMIES , also. One of them assassinated RFK, for Pete's sake. What does it take to get people to recognize our enemies?
It would be nice if people knew what US vital national security interests were. A team of people killed RFK. It was a hit. Your Palestinian was a mind controlled fall guy.

Ransom
12-07-2017, 09:09 PM
It would be nice if people knew what US vital national security interests were. A team of people killed RFK. It was a hit. Your Palestinian was a mind controlled fall guy.
Wouldn't it? Pete.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 09:12 PM
Wouldn't it? Pete.

Yes, and you don't. Everything from your armchair seems to be a valid mission.

Ransom
12-07-2017, 09:15 PM
Yes, and you don't. Everything from your armchair seems to be a valid mission.

I have noted...with humor...your recent posts bragging about being spot on regarding the Islamic State. When you couldn't have been more wrong.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 09:19 PM
I have noted...with humor...your recent posts bragging about being spot on regarding the Islamic State. When you couldn't have been more wrong.

Incorrect. I called it the morning after the Caliphate, peace be unto Allah, was declared. Another member even had my quote in her sig line- but she got banned for being crazy. Too bad she isn't still here with that quote.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 09:43 PM
It would be nice if people knew what US vital national security interests were. A team of people killed RFK. It was a hit. Your Palestinian was a mind controlled fall guy.
Oh, really, Mr.Stone? Please, by all means, edify us further. The man who assassinated RFK was a Palestinian, who did so because of the Kennedy's support for Israel, IN HIS IN WORDS.

Peter1469
12-07-2017, 09:45 PM
Oh, really, Mr.Stone? Please, by all means, edify us further. The man who assassinated RFK was a Palestinian, who did so because of the Kennedy's support for Israel, IN HIS IN WORDS.

Witnesses say a lot more shots were fired that your stooge had.

RFK was another hit by the deep state, like his brother.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 09:49 PM
Witnesses say a lot more shots were fired that your stooge had.

RFK was another hit by the deep state, like his brother.


It was ON VIDEO LIVE. We heard everything that happened...LIVE. Better can that "conspiracy" Oliver Stone...RFK was shot dead with multiple shots from a .22 revolver with hollow point ammo, which disintegrated on impact. He was conscious for several minutes afterwards...WE SAW SIRHAN DO IT...


A PALESTINIAN TERRORIST.

Dr. Who
12-07-2017, 10:13 PM
It was ON VIDEO LIVE. We heard everything that happened...LIVE. Better can that "conspiracy" Oliver Stone...RFK was shot dead with multiple shots from a .22 revolver with hollow point ammo, which disintegrated on impact. He was conscious for several minutes afterwards...WE SAW SIRHAN DO IT...


A PALESTINIAN TERRORIST.

Yeah, no one ever hired a hit man.

Grokmaster
12-07-2017, 11:37 PM
Yeah, no one ever hired a hit man.
More bullshit. No one had to "hire" Sirhan, the PALESTINIAN TERRORIST, who attacked RFK for supporting Israel.



In court, Sirhan blamed the killing on Kennedy's support for Israel during the Six-Day War (which had begun exactly one year before the assassination).


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/assassination-the-night-bobby-kennedy-was-shot-432970.html
Save the madeup bullshit for your less-informed idiot friends...

The PALESTINIANS ARE, and HAVE BEEN, AND REMAIN, OUR ENEMIES. FUCK 'EM.

Tahuyaman
12-08-2017, 09:24 AM
Lol, so if the rest of the world "agreed" to divide up the US land and give half of it to Mexico and Canada, and migrating Syrian refugees, you'd be okay with that? Because it's the same exact thing.

Who the $#@! cares what the rest of the world thought? When did you become a globalist?

The US is a Soverign nation. There never has been a nation of Palestine.

Grokmaster
12-08-2017, 03:05 PM
The US is a Soverign nation. There never has been a nation of Palestine.

Thank you.

Kacper
12-08-2017, 05:02 PM
I am not sure what Trump's endgame is here. Seems like he is trying to stir up a bunch of chaos to blame Obama. Jerusalem will have to be an independent Vatican-like city-state in the end if there is ever going to be peace there. Basically both sides have to not get what they want.

Tahuyaman
12-08-2017, 06:10 PM
The US is a Soverign nation. There never has been a nation of Palestine.


Thank you.


Facts matter. Just sayin

Tahuyaman
12-08-2017, 06:11 PM
I am not sure what Trump's endgame is here. Seems like he is trying to stir up a bunch of chaos to blame Obama. Jerusalem will have to be an independent Vatican-like city-state in the end if there is ever going to be peace there. Basically both sides have to not get what they want.


His end game is by making this decision, it can be used as a bargaining chip in getting the Palestinian authority to meet for real and substantive peace talks.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 06:11 PM
I am not sure what Trump's endgame is here. Seems like he is trying to stir up a bunch of chaos to blame Obama. Jerusalem will have to be an independent Vatican-like city-state in the end if there is ever going to be peace there. Basically both sides have to not get what they want.
Yea, I was thinking something along those lines. Perhaps an international city governed by an international body.

MisterVeritis
12-08-2017, 06:13 PM
I am not sure what Trump's endgame is here. Seems like he is trying to stir up a bunch of chaos to blame Obama. Jerusalem will have to be an independent Vatican-like city-state in the end if there is ever going to be peace there. Basically both sides have to not get what they want.
I believe Israel keeps a united Jerusalem and the Palestinians will continue to live stupidly.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 06:16 PM
Israel will keep on stealing land from the Palestinians and turning Israel proper into a Jewish theocracy. And they will keep dragging the USA into their endless conflicts with their neighbors. I have no idea why Americans allow this nonsense to continue.

MisterVeritis
12-08-2017, 06:20 PM
Yea, I was thinking something along those lines. Perhaps an international city governed by an international body.
Why?

Tahuyaman
12-08-2017, 06:26 PM
Israel will keep on stealing land from the Palestinians and turning Israel proper into a Jewish theocracy. And they will keep dragging the USA into their endless conflicts with their neighbors. I have no idea why Americans allow this nonsense to continue.

Israel is not a theocracy now, why would that change?

MisterVeritis
12-08-2017, 08:31 PM
One thing for sure, the State Department needs a serious house cleaning.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 08:34 PM
Why?
Because every religious nut job in the world thinks the city belongs to them. Turning it into an international enclave where all the nuts can visit it under the auspices of international law will help resolve the underlying conflict.

Grokmaster
12-08-2017, 08:36 PM
Because every religious nut job in the world thinks the city belongs to them. Turning it into an international enclave where all the nuts can visit it under the auspices of international law will help resolve the underlying conflict.

No, I believe that would make it a staging ground for nonstop terrorism from you-know-who...

MisterVeritis
12-08-2017, 08:39 PM
Because every religious nut job in the world thinks the city belongs to them. Turning it into an international enclave where all the nuts can visit it under the auspices of international law will help resolve the underlying conflict.
So. The city belongs to Israel.

Nothing will resolve the underlying conflict. Arabs want to murder all the Jews. Putting the city under the UN is completely nuts. I am surprised you would ever consider it.

But then, I know we agree on many things and disagree completely on a few things.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 08:40 PM
No, I believe that would make it a staging ground for nonstop terrorism from you-know-who...
Only if you believe the Israeli lobby's churlish and self-serving propaganda about everything being someone else's fault. In reality, both sides have much to answer for, which is why the only credible solution is one involving an international consensus. Unfortunately, the US political class is utterly subservient to the Israeli lobby, which means they will keep obstructing that consensus and emboldening Israel's implacable and suicidal ambitions to drive the Palestinian people out of their ancestral homeland.

Grokmaster
12-08-2017, 08:42 PM
Only if you believe the Israeli lobby's churlish and self-serving propaganda about everything being someone else's fault. In reality, both sides have much to answer for, which is why the only credible solution is one involving an international consensus. Unfortunately, the US political class is utterly subservient to the Israeli lobby, which means they will keep obstructing that consensus and emboldening Israel's implacable and suicidal ambitions to drive the Palestinian people out of their ancestral homeland.
Israel just wants to be left TF alone. That's all. They are happy to employ and feed the people who seem intent on destroying them...if the cockroaches will just stop trying to.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 08:44 PM
So. The city belongs to Israel.

That is what Israel likes to claim. Unfortunately for them, lots of people in the region and around the world disagree.


Nothing will resolve the underlying conflict. Arabs want to murder all the Jews. Putting the city under the UN is completely nuts. I am surprised you would ever consider it.

But then, I know we agree on many things and disagree completely on a few things.

You have basically convinced yourself that all Arabs and Muslims are evil people on the verge of a murderous rage. I actually lived among Arabs and Muslims for almost a year in Iraq and I can tell you for a fact it's much more complicated than that. Many Muslims are decent people who just want to live in peace, just like any other person. If someday you learn to view Muslims as humans instead of cartoonish monsters, you may come to understand my position.

MisterVeritis
12-08-2017, 08:45 PM
That is what Israel likes to claim. Unfortunately for them, lots of people in the region and around the world disagree.
We will not agree on this. That is fine.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 08:49 PM
Israel just wants to be left TF alone. That's all.

That is certainly what Israel likes to claim. The only problem is very few people actually believe them.


They are happy to employ and feed the people who seem intent on destroying them...if the $#@!roaches will just stop trying to.

They have basically driven Palestinians out of their ancestral homeland and into a glorified concentration camp while continuing to expand settlements that virtually every civilized country in the world condemns as unethical and unlawful. The idea that everything is the Palestinians' fault is just something the Israeli lobby says in order to justify their own bad behavior. I say this as someone who used to be a zealous supporter of Israel.

MisterVeritis
12-08-2017, 08:52 PM
That is certainly what Israel likes to claim. The only problem is very few people actually believe them.
They have basically driven Palestinians out of their ancestral homeland and into a glorified concentration camp while continuing to expand settlements that virtually every civilized country in the world condemns as unethical and unlawful. The idea that everything is the Palestinians fault is just something the Israeli lobby says in order to hide their own bad behavior.
The Palestinians have passed up good deals so they could hang onto their hatred. So let them live with their hatred away from Israel.

There is a great deal of anti-semitism in Europe.

Ethereal
12-08-2017, 09:06 PM
The Palestinians have passed up good deals so they could hang onto their hatred. So let them live with their hatred away from Israel.

There is a great deal of anti-semitism in Europe.

Blaming everything on antisemitism is one of Israel's preferred tactics. Unfortunately, they've overused it to the point where nobody even listens when it's thrown out.

As for the claim that the Palestinians have passed up good deals, that is certainly debatable. I mean, I know Israel likes to claim that anything and everything is someone else's fault, but people are finding that narrative increasingly unpersuasive.

ripmeister
12-08-2017, 10:01 PM
That is what Israel likes to claim. Unfortunately for them, lots of people in the region and around the world disagree.



You have basically convinced yourself that all Arabs and Muslims are evil people on the verge of a murderous rage. I actually lived among Arabs and Muslims for almost a year in Iraq and I can tell you for a fact it's much more complicated than that. Many Muslims are decent people who just want to live in peace, just like any other person. If someday you learn to view Muslims as humans instead of cartoonish monsters, you may come to understand my position.

As an aside to this I would add us dreaded liberals to that mix

leekohler2
12-08-2017, 11:04 PM
That is what Israel likes to claim. Unfortunately for them, lots of people in the region and around the world disagree.



You have basically convinced yourself that all Arabs and Muslims are evil people on the verge of a murderous rage. I actually lived among Arabs and Muslims for almost a year in Iraq and I can tell you for a fact it's much more complicated than that. Many Muslims are decent people who just want to live in peace, just like any other person. If someday you learn to view Muslims as humans instead of cartoonish monsters, you may come to understand my position.

Many of us "evil liberals" have been saying this for years. But we just get called sympathizers and people who want Sharia law in the US, which is the furthest thing from the truth. But hey, the truth never seems to matter.

MisterVeritis
12-09-2017, 12:43 AM
Blaming everything on antisemitism is one of Israel's preferred tactics. Unfortunately, they've overused it to the point where nobody even listens when it's thrown out.

As for the claim that the Palestinians have passed up good deals, that is certainly debatable. I mean, I know Israel likes to claim that anything and everything is someone else's fault, but people are finding that narrative increasingly unpersuasive.
It is fine with me if you are unable to see the rising anti-Semitism in Europe (and on American campuses). I know you have a blind spot.

Grokmaster
12-09-2017, 01:22 AM
That is certainly what Israel likes to claim. The only problem is very few people actually believe them. They have basically driven Palestinians out of their ancestral homeland and into a glorified concentration camp while continuing to expand settlements that virtually every civilized country in the world condemns as unethical and unlawful. The idea that everything is the Palestinians' fault is just something the Israeli lobby says in order to justify their own bad behavior. I say this as someone who used to be a zealous supporter of Israel.



Israelis keep to themselves until they are attacked ALWAYS. Then they knock the crap out whoever did it, in spades.

They built Jerusalem, millennia before a single muslim existed.

The Israelis aren't trying to "claim" Mecca and Medina, are they?

The Palestinians "ancestral lands" are NOWHERE...they have none. They COULD HAVE HAD a MUCH LARGER tract of land than Israel, but they chose to get their asses kicked , along with the other arab nations who attacked the fledgling Israel in 1948.


JORDAN and SYRIA have "their land"; not Israel.

Everything IS the "Palestinians' fault"...

Tahuyaman
12-09-2017, 01:23 AM
The dumbest statement here so far is the one where someone claimed Israel was trying to develop a theocracy. If that was their goal, they would have already accomplished that.

leekohler2
12-09-2017, 01:31 AM
If Trump's aim was to throw Israel into chaos, he acheived his goal. I fail to see how this serves our interests in any way.

Someone needs to explain this.

Grokmaster
12-09-2017, 01:33 AM
If Trump's aim was to throw Israel into chaos, he acheived his goal.

Because the cockroaches of allah have been so calm and peaceful until now...

Grokmaster
12-09-2017, 02:00 AM
21487

Ransom
12-09-2017, 07:33 AM
If Trump's aim was to throw Israel into chaos, he acheived his goal. I fail to see how this serves our interests in any way.

Someone needs to explain this.

Lee.....you are aware....that the decision to move the Embassy to Jerusalem was mandated by Congress.....correct?

I know facts and what not tend to get drowned in media frenzy and hysterics where your arguments are concerned but....

...it is a fact that Presidents since Clinton have been waiving We the People's mandate to move the Capitol. Don't believe me, do your own research. The someone that explained it was We the People. Who recognize Jerusalem as Israel's Capitol and have for decades, the Presidents who have been waiving our mandate are those that need to provide an explanation. We the People debated and decided decades ago, it's time to do our bidding. Trump merely fulfilling a campaign promise at our behest. Wake up, Sir.