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Ethereal
01-05-2018, 08:32 PM
I will use this thread to examine, address, and rebut the main points of the Russian "collusion" conspiracy theory being peddled by the deep state and its minions. And I will use a specific iteration of that theory, promoted by one of the strongest proponents of the "collusion" narrative, as a baseline for demonstrating just how empty and baseless that theory is.

To wit:


Sure. Wikileaks, on behalf of their Kremlin backers, stole email from podesta and used it to affect the election. Roger Stone was the trump team contact with gucifer2. Trump, guilliani, etc. knew in advance as proven by their many hints in the press.
Point one: There is no proof that Wikileaks is backed by the Kremlin. This is pure speculation based on nothing concrete.

Point two: There is no proof that Wikileaks "stole" Podesta's email. That is not even Wikileaks MO. They are known for receiving and publishing documents, not extracting them.

Point three: The entity known as Guccifer 2.0 is alleged to have hacked the DNC's servers, NOT Podesta's email account. The hack of Podesta's email account is a SEPARATE incident from the hack of the DNC's servers by Guccifer 2.0. There is no proof at all that Guccifer 2.0 hacked Podesta's emails, nor is there any proof that Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of Wikileaks.

Point four: Hints in the press? So speculative that it's not even worth addressing

So in about ten minutes, I've been able to dismantle months worth of conspiracy theory. And it wasn't hard at all. Now just imagine how easily Trump's high-powered lawyers would rip this "theory" to shreds if it ever found its way into a courtroom. That would be fun to watch.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 08:42 PM
Sorry man, but that just isn't true.

WikiLeaks, the website that bills itself as "we open governments," and entities linked to the Kremlin have a relationship that goes back further than the 2016 election. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-did-wikileaks-become-associated-with-russia/)

They've been a team almost since there's been a WikiLeaks. Hell RT gave Assange his own talk show back in 2012.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 08:45 PM
Nobody thinks WikiLeaks style Podesta's email. The US intelligence community however say that Russian hackers did and gave them to WikiLeaks so they could distribute them in a semi deniable fashion.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 08:48 PM
Sorry man, but that just isn't true.

WikiLeaks, the website that bills itself as "we open governments," and entities linked to the Kremlin have a relationship that goes back further than the 2016 election. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-did-wikileaks-become-associated-with-russia/)

They've been a team almost since there's been a WikiLeaks. Hell RT gave Assange his own talk show back in 2012.

So because Assange hosted a show on RT for a while, that proves Wikileaks is an agent of the Kremlin?

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 08:51 PM
Nobody thinks WikiLeaks style Podesta's email.

Bethere does.


Sure. Wikileaks, on behalf of their Kremlin backers, stole email from podesta and used it to affect the election. Roger Stone was the trump team contact with gucifer2. Trump, guilliani, etc. knew in advance as proven by their many hints in the press.


The US intelligence community however say that Russian hackers did and gave them to WikiLeaks so they could distribute them in a semi deniable fashion.

The "US intelligence community" has said a lot of things, many of which turned out to be false or dishonest. The say-so of the "US intelligence community" isn't really worth a spit without PROOF to back it up. So where is the actual proof that the Russian government hacked Podesta's email and gave the data to Wikileaks? Give me one simple FACT that proves Podesta was hacked by Russians or that Wikileaks is an agent of the Kremlin.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 08:53 PM
So because Assange hosted a show on RT for a while, that proves Wikileaks is an agent of the Kremlin?

More than just that. You hafta actually read the link. I can't quote the whole thing.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 08:54 PM
Bethere does.





The "US intelligence community" has said a lot of things, many of which turned out to be false or dishonest. The say-so of the "US intelligence community" isn't really worth a spit without PROOF to back it up. So where is the actual proof that the Russian government hacked Podesta's email and gave the data to Wikileaks? Give me one simple FACT that proves Podesta was hacked by Russians or that Wikileaks is an agent of the Kremlin.

So you'd rather believe the Russian government than your own?

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 08:55 PM
More than just that. You hafta actually read the link. I can't quote the whole thing.
I did read it. As usual, lots of speculation but no actual proof.

You guys think that by throwing walls of text at people, it somehow proves your arguments.

Why can't you just give us a few simple and easy to understand FACTS that prove your theory?

What, in your opinion, is the single most compelling FACT that tends to PROVE that the Russian government hacked Podesta?

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 08:57 PM
Bethere does.





The "US intelligence community" has said a lot of things, many of which turned out to be false or dishonest. The say-so of the "US intelligence community" isn't really worth a spit without PROOF to back it up. So where is the actual proof that the Russian government hacked Podesta's email and gave the data to Wikileaks? Give me one simple FACT that proves Podesta was hacked by Russians or that Wikileaks is an agent of the Kremlin.

https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a


The AP’s reconstruction— based on a database of 19,000 malicious links recently shared by cybersecurity firm Secureworks — shows how the hackers worked their way around the Clinton campaign’s top-of-the-line digital security to steal chairman John Podesta’s emails in March 2016.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 08:57 PM
So you'd rather believe the Russian government than your own?

Exercising skepticism of the US government's inflammatory allegations does not require any faith or confidence in the Russian government.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 09:01 PM
Exercising skepticism of the US government's inflammatory allegations does not require any faith or confidence in the Russian government.

In your case this seems not to be true.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 09:11 PM
https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
The results of a "reconstruction" are not facts.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 09:12 PM
In your case this seems not to be true.
I'm sure you believe that.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 09:13 PM
So far, not a single cogent fact produced by the collusionists.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 09:18 PM
There is zero proof that Gufficer 2.0 had anything to do with hacking Podesta's emails.

There is zero proof that Guccifer 2.0 was an agent of Wikileaks.

There is zero proof that Guccifer 2.0 was an agent of the Russian government.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 09:23 PM
The results of a "reconstruction" are not facts.

So what, in your opinion, would constitute proof?

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 09:28 PM
The only thing we can be fairly certain of is that Guccifer 2.0 accessed the DNC's servers and published some of the data contained therein.

But those servers and that data are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the Podesta emails.

Ethereal
01-05-2018, 09:28 PM
So what, in your opinion, would constitute proof?
Facts would be a nice start.

Peter1469
01-05-2018, 09:46 PM
Podesta wasn't hacked. It was a phishing scheme.
I will use this thread to examine, address, and rebut the main points of the Russian "collusion" conspiracy theory being peddled by the deep state and its minions. And I will use a specific iteration of that theory, promoted by one of the strongest proponents of the "collusion" narrative, as a baseline for demonstrating just how empty and baseless that theory is.

To wit:


Point one: There is no proof that Wikileaks is backed by the Kremlin. This is pure speculation based on nothing concrete.

Point two: There is no proof that Wikileaks "stole" Podesta's email. That is not even Wikileaks MO. They are known for receiving and publishing documents, not extracting them.

Point three: The entity known as Guccifer 2.0 is alleged to have hacked the DNC's servers, NOT Podesta's email account. The hack of Podesta's email account is a SEPARATE incident from the hack of the DNC's servers by Guccifer 2.0. There is no proof at all that Guccifer 2.0 hacked Podesta's emails, nor is there any proof that Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of Wikileaks.

Point four: Hints in the press? So speculative that it's not even worth addressing

So in about ten minutes, I've been able to dismantle months worth of conspiracy theory. And it wasn't hard at all. Now just imagine how easily Trump's high-powered lawyers would rip this "theory" to shreds if it ever found its way into a courtroom. That would be fun to watch.

Crepitus
01-05-2018, 10:32 PM
Facts would be a nice start.

I've given you facts, you discount them out of hand. I have the feeling that if I produced an eye witness you would find a reason why he wasn't credible. I don't think there is anything that can persuade you period.

Dangermouse
01-05-2018, 11:22 PM
Here you go. a few facts. Cue attack on source of widely accepted facts...

" ...Pause for a moment and ponder this. The US intelligence community has concluded that Vladimir Putin ordered a clandestine act of information warfare against the United States to harm Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump during the election. And during that race, Trump’s camp had a series of contacts with Russians or suspected cut-outs. Also throughout the time Putin’s operation was under way, Trump and his lieutenants kept denying this assault was happening—even after his top campaign aides were informed that Moscow wanted to secretly assist Trump and after Trump was briefed by US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the hack-and-dump assaults targeting Clinton and the Democrats. That is, the public now knows that the United States was attacked by Putin, that Trump associates were interacting with Russians during this period, and that Trump and his crew, intentionally or not, provided cover for Moscow by insisting no such operation was occurring.
Yet what now draws the ire of congressional Republicans the most is Steele and his reports. ..."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/republican-senators-target-christopher-steele-and-the-reason-is-obvious/

Peter1469
01-05-2018, 11:32 PM
Where is the crime?


Here you go. a few facts. Cue attack on source of widely accepted facts...

" ...Pause for a moment and ponder this. The US intelligence community has concluded that Vladimir Putin ordered a clandestine act of information warfare against the United States to harm Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump during the election. And during that race, Trump’s camp had a series of contacts with Russians or suspected cut-outs. Also throughout the time Putin’s operation was under way, Trump and his lieutenants kept denying this assault was happening—even after his top campaign aides were informed that Moscow wanted to secretly assist Trump and after Trump was briefed by US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the hack-and-dump assaults targeting Clinton and the Democrats. That is, the public now knows that the United States was attacked by Putin, that Trump associates were interacting with Russians during this period, and that Trump and his crew, intentionally or not, provided cover for Moscow by insisting no such operation was occurring.
Yet what now draws the ire of congressional Republicans the most is Steele and his reports. ..."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/republican-senators-target-christopher-steele-and-the-reason-is-obvious/

Tahuyaman
01-06-2018, 12:25 AM
Nobody thinks WikiLeaks style Podesta's email. The US intelligence community however say that Russian hackers did and gave them to WikiLeaks so they could distribute them in a semi deniable fashion.

You are crazy.

Peter1469
01-06-2018, 12:38 AM
You are trolling across threads. It's dishonest and against the rules.
That is most certainly not trolling.

Your typical thread more fits that bill.

Bethere
01-06-2018, 12:39 AM
I will use this thread to examine, address, and rebut the main points of the Russian "collusion" conspiracy theory being peddled by the deep state and its minions. And I will use a specific iteration of that theory, promoted by one of the strongest proponents of the "collusion" narrative, as a baseline for demonstrating just how empty and baseless that theory is.

To wit:


Point one: There is no proof that Wikileaks is backed by the Kremlin. This is pure speculation based on nothing concrete.

Point two: There is no proof that Wikileaks "stole" Podesta's email. That is not even Wikileaks MO. They are known for receiving and publishing documents, not extracting them.

Point three: The entity known as Guccifer 2.0 is alleged to have hacked the DNC's servers, NOT Podesta's email account. The hack of Podesta's email account is a SEPARATE incident from the hack of the DNC's servers by Guccifer 2.0. There is no proof at all that Guccifer 2.0 hacked Podesta's emails, nor is there any proof that Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of Wikileaks.

Point four: Hints in the press? So speculative that it's not even worth addressing

So in about ten minutes, I've been able to dismantle months worth of conspiracy theory. And it wasn't hard at all. Now just imagine how easily Trump's high-powered lawyers would rip this "theory" to shreds if it ever found its way into a courtroom. That would be fun to watch.

You are trolling across threads. It's dishonest and against the rules. You should have addressed this within the thread where it was contained. I would have responded.

There is no chance that I will indulge you here.

Peter1469
01-06-2018, 12:46 AM
That is not trolling. Check out any of your threads for trolling.


You are trolling across threads. It's dishonest and against the rules. You should have addressed this within the thread where it was contained. I would have responded.

There is no chance that I will indulge you here.

Dangermouse
01-06-2018, 05:52 AM
Where is the crime?

If you still can't see any there's no explanation I can give you.

stjames1_53
01-06-2018, 08:01 AM
Here you go. a few facts. Cue attack on source of widely accepted facts...

" ...Pause for a moment and ponder this. The US intelligence community has concluded that Vladimir Putin ordered a clandestine act of information warfare against the United States to harm Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump during the election. And during that race, Trump’s camp had a series of contacts with Russians or suspected cut-outs. Also throughout the time Putin’s operation was under way, Trump and his lieutenants kept denying this assault was happening—even after his top campaign aides were informed that Moscow wanted to secretly assist Trump and after Trump was briefed by US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the hack-and-dump assaults targeting Clinton and the Democrats. That is, the public now knows that the United States was attacked by Putin, that Trump associates were interacting with Russians during this period, and that Trump and his crew, intentionally or not, provided cover for Moscow by insisting no such operation was occurring.
Yet what now draws the ire of congressional Republicans the most is Steele and his reports. ..."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/republican-senators-target-christopher-steele-and-the-reason-is-obvious/

all I can say is.......mother jones? really? hahahahahahahaha

stjames1_53
01-06-2018, 08:05 AM
You are trolling across threads. It's dishonest and against the rules. You should have addressed this within the thread where it was contained. I would have responded.
There is no chance that I will indulge you here.

..........you cannot disprove any of his statements.................
as for your last comment, you should not have entered into this thread in the first place

Ethereal
01-06-2018, 02:22 PM
I've given you facts, you discount them out of hand. I have the feeling that if I produced an eye witness you would find a reason why he wasn't credible. I don't think there is anything that can persuade you period.

You cited a "reconstruction" and its results, thinking they were facts. Clearly, you have no idea what a fact actually is.

Ethereal
01-06-2018, 02:24 PM
Here you go. a few facts. Cue attack on source of widely accepted facts...

" ...Pause for a moment and ponder this. The US intelligence community has concluded that Vladimir Putin ordered a clandestine act of information warfare against the United States to harm Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump during the election. And during that race, Trump’s camp had a series of contacts with Russians or suspected cut-outs. Also throughout the time Putin’s operation was under way, Trump and his lieutenants kept denying this assault was happening—even after his top campaign aides were informed that Moscow wanted to secretly assist Trump and after Trump was briefed by US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the hack-and-dump assaults targeting Clinton and the Democrats. That is, the public now knows that the United States was attacked by Putin, that Trump associates were interacting with Russians during this period, and that Trump and his crew, intentionally or not, provided cover for Moscow by insisting no such operation was occurring.
Yet what now draws the ire of congressional Republicans the most is Steele and his reports. ..."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/republican-senators-target-christopher-steele-and-the-reason-is-obvious/
The mere say-so of the "US intelligence community" does not make something a fact. Repeating a claim over and over again does not make it a fact.

Ethereal
01-06-2018, 02:25 PM
You are trolling across threads. It's dishonest and against the rules. You should have addressed this within the thread where it was contained. I would have responded.

There is no chance that I will indulge you here.
I don't care what you think. This thread is within the rules and your outlandish conspiracy theory has been debunked easily.

Ethereal
01-06-2018, 02:27 PM
If you still can't see any there's no explanation I can give you.

There is nothing to see. The so-called "intelligence community" is lying, just like they lied when they told the world that Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" or that the rebels in Syria were "moderates".

resister
01-06-2018, 02:28 PM
You are trolling across threads. It's dishonest and against the rules. You should have addressed this within the thread where it was contained. I would have responded.

There is no chance that I will indulge you here.
You are, as usual mistaken.

The Xl
01-06-2018, 05:06 PM
So what, in your opinion, would constitute proof?

Anything tangible and provable, for starters.

Captdon
01-06-2018, 05:33 PM
There is zero proof that Gufficer 2.0 had anything to do with hacking Podesta's emails.

There is zero proof that Guccifer 2.0 was an agent of Wikileaks.

There is zero proof that Guccifer 2.0 was an agent of the Russian government.

But- the emails are true regardless. That's the point.

Captdon
01-06-2018, 05:36 PM
Here you go. a few facts. Cue attack on source of widely accepted facts...

" ...Pause for a moment and ponder this. The US intelligence community has concluded that Vladimir Putin ordered a clandestine act of information warfare against the United States to harm Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump during the election. And during that race, Trump’s camp had a series of contacts with Russians or suspected cut-outs. Also throughout the time Putin’s operation was under way, Trump and his lieutenants kept denying this assault was happening—even after his top campaign aides were informed that Moscow wanted to secretly assist Trump and after Trump was briefed by US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the hack-and-dump assaults targeting Clinton and the Democrats. That is, the public now knows that the United States was attacked by Putin, that Trump associates were interacting with Russians during this period, and that Trump and his crew, intentionally or not, provided cover for Moscow by insisting no such operation was occurring.
Yet what now draws the ire of congressional Republicans the most is Steele and his reports. ..."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/republican-senators-target-christopher-steele-and-the-reason-is-obvious/

motherjones? Are you nuts? That's like quoting the DNC. If it is true why didn't President Sissypants do something about it?

Peter1469
01-06-2018, 05:37 PM
If you still can't see any there's no explanation I can give you.



I already told you we have no crime here.

Crepitus
01-06-2018, 05:44 PM
Anything tangible and provable, for starters.

So forensic examination by professionals isn't tangible and provable?

stjames1_53
01-06-2018, 05:49 PM
So forensic examination by professionals isn't tangible and provable?
as a matter of fact, there is no forensic evidence to the claim you support.

Ethereal
01-06-2018, 06:42 PM
But- the emails are true regardless. That's the point.
Democrats are more upset about who exposed their corruption than the corruption itself. And that's what this is all about: A big distraction from their internal corruption and their failure to defeat Trump. They think if they keep shouting "Russia" every two seconds, people will somehow forget that the DNC rigged their primaries and that their message does not resonant anywhere outside big cities.

Ethereal
01-06-2018, 06:43 PM
So forensic examination by professionals isn't tangible and provable?
A "reconstruction" and its results are not facts. What don't you understand about that?

nathanbforrest45
01-06-2018, 06:56 PM
all I can say is.......mother jones? really? hahahahahahahaha

Come on now St James, we all know Mother Jones is a non partisan professional news source.

The fact that the founder, the so called Mother Jones, was neither a mother nor named Jones should not enter into the veracity of the lies and distortions found in this outstanding news source.

Peter1469
01-06-2018, 07:24 PM
Democrats are more upset about who exposed their corruption than the corruption itself. And that's what this is all about: A big distraction from their internal corruption and their failure to defeat Trump. They think if they keep shouting "Russia" every two seconds, people will somehow forget that the DNC rigged their primaries and that their message does not resonant anywhere outside big cities.


What ever the answer is, they have gone bat shit crazy.

Totally irrational.

Crepitus
01-06-2018, 09:32 PM
A "reconstruction" and its results are not facts. What don't you understand about that?

Lol, how do you think they solve crimes where there are no available witnesses? They reconstruct, they investigate, they examine.

Dude your desperate attempts to discredit this are hilarious!

nathanbforrest45
01-06-2018, 11:19 PM
Lol, how do you think they solve crimes where there are no available witnesses? They reconstruct, they investigate, they examine.

Dude your desperate attempts to discredit this are hilarious!

Then it goes to court where the evidence is presented to a jury of the defendant's peers. I don't remember any trial or even any charges yet. So, maybe, just maybe, these people are full of sh!t

Ethereal
01-07-2018, 02:58 AM
Lol, how do you think they solve crimes where there are no available witnesses? They reconstruct, they investigate, they examine.

Dude your desperate attempts to discredit this are hilarious!

A reconstruction isn't a fact. Nothing you say will change that.

Ethereal
01-07-2018, 03:11 AM
Thus far, ZERO cogent facts.

Because they have NONE.

Bethere doesn't even know the difference between Podesta's emails and the DNC's servers.

They just keep repeating "US intelligence" like a religious mantra.

I suppose it never occurred to them that "intelligence" is often WRONG.

It wasn't that long ago that "US intelligence" was telling everyone that Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" which he might hand off to terrorists.

Before that, "US intelligence" assured everyone that Vietnam was a good place to invade and occupy.

And the man who is responsible for giving us this "intelligence", James Clapper, is a PROVEN LIAR who lied UNDER OATH to the US Congress.

It requires an astonishing level of cognitive dissonance to look past the massive problems with this "intelligence".

Common
01-07-2018, 03:14 AM
Lol, how do you think they solve crimes where there are no available witnesses? They reconstruct, they investigate, they examine.

Dude your desperate attempts to discredit this are hilarious!

Crepitus you are right but you left out after so long it goes to cold case or they determine no crime has been committed. Investigations arent supposed to "create" a crime, they investigate evidence and collect facts, mueller had a year to come up with something. Arresting manafort is not RUSSIAN COLLUSION by the trump admin. Mueller is on a fishing expedition hoping to create a crime, hes a close friend of comeys who is a known scumbag and trump hater who covered for hillary. Mueller has brought into the investigation other trump haters as investigators. 2 of muellers investigators had to resign and one was fired. If there was a SNIFF there he would have had it already, what they are trying to do is slap trump with something ANYTHING so as not to be fools in the end.

Ethereal
01-07-2018, 03:15 AM
James Clapper lying under oath to the Senate:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGYn7ER5U_0

This is the man who is responsible for the "intelligence" report that so many Democrats love to cite as gospel.

stjames1_53
01-07-2018, 09:54 AM
Crepitus you are right but you left out after so long it goes to cold case or they determine no crime has been committed. Investigations arent supposed to "create" a crime, they investigate evidence and collect facts, mueller had a year to come up with something. Arresting manafort is not RUSSIAN COLLUSION by the trump admin. Mueller is on a fishing expedition hoping to create a crime, hes a close friend of comeys who is a known scumbag and trump hater who covered for hillary. Mueller has brought into the investigation other trump haters as investigators. 2 of muellers investigators had to resign and one was fired. If there was a SNIFF there he would have had it already, what they are trying to do is slap trump with something ANYTHING so as not to be fools in the end.

he's really deep sea fishing now:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/robert-mueller-sets-sights-on-ivanka-trump-over-brief-exchange-with-kremlin-connected-russian-lawyer/article/2645192

Crepitus
01-07-2018, 11:02 AM
Then it goes to court where the evidence is presented to a jury of the defendant's peers. I don't remember any trial or even any charges yet. So, maybe, just maybe, these people are full of sh!t

Still investigating. Trials come in due course.

resister
01-07-2018, 11:05 AM
Still investigating. Trials come in due course.
Don't give up the ship! Go down with it!22128

Checking Trump investigation....nope, still nada bumpkis!

Crepitus
01-07-2018, 11:18 AM
A reconstruction isn't a fact. Nothing you say will change that.

You are here

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vMPyCEh4UQg/UAB5DGaHH-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/EHgkbrTdepw/s1600/denial.jpg

Crepitus
01-07-2018, 11:28 AM
Crepitus you are right but you left out after so long it goes to cold case or they determine no crime has been committed. Investigations arent supposed to "create" a crime, they investigate evidence and collect facts, mueller had a year to come up with something. Arresting manafort is not RUSSIAN COLLUSION by the trump admin. Mueller is on a fishing expedition hoping to create a crime, hes a close friend of comeys who is a known scumbag and trump hater who covered for hillary. Mueller has brought into the investigation other trump haters as investigators. 2 of muellers investigators had to resign and one was fired. If there was a SNIFF there he would have had it already, what they are trying to do is slap trump with something ANYTHING so as not to be fools in the end.

Nobody's "creating" a crime. One was committed. Possibly far more than one. Circumstantial evidence available to the general public is overwhelming, and I'm sure the investigators have more than we know. After all they uncovered lies, clandestine meetings, and falsified paperwork, denying anything happened is at this point extremely disingenuous.

Mueller's team is not composed of "trump haters" nor is he one. No-one covered for Clinton, quite to the contrary I clearly remember many conservative crowing when Comey threw her under the bus 10 days before the election.

Crepitus
01-07-2018, 11:49 AM
Don't give up the ship! Go down with it!22128

Checking Trump investigation....nope, still nada bumpkis!

What does that meme have to do with anything?

resister
01-07-2018, 12:12 PM
What does that meme have to do with anything?
Should be rather obvious. Keep the faith! Russia Russia Russia!

Crepitus
01-07-2018, 12:46 PM
Should be rather obvious. Keep the faith! Russia Russia Russia!

So nothing then? Cool.

stjames1_53
01-07-2018, 01:15 PM
Nobody's "creating" a crime. One was committed. Possibly far more than one. Circumstantial evidence available to the general public is overwhelming, and I'm sure the investigators have more than we know. After all they uncovered lies, clandestine meetings, and falsified paperwork, denying anything happened is at this point extremely disingenuous.

Mueller's team is not composed of "trump haters" nor is he one. No-one covered for Clinton, quite to the contrary I clearly remember many conservative crowing when Comey threw her under the bus 10 days before the election.

what "crimes' have been committed?

Ethereal
01-07-2018, 02:16 PM
Nobody's "creating" a crime. One was committed. Possibly far more than one. Circumstantial evidence available to the general public is overwhelming, and I'm sure the investigators have more than we know. After all they uncovered lies, clandestine meetings, and falsified paperwork, denying anything happened is at this point extremely disingenuous.

Mueller's team is not composed of "trump haters" nor is he one. No-one covered for Clinton, quite to the contrary I clearly remember many conservative crowing when Comey threw her under the bus 10 days before the election.
You cannot even produce one single fact in support of your theory. The best you could come up with is one "reconstruction", which isn't even a fact.

resister
01-07-2018, 02:24 PM
You cannot even produce one single fact in support of your theory. The best you could come up with is one "reconstruction", which isn't even a fact.But he has a meme, to him a meme is an argument.

Ethereal
01-07-2018, 02:34 PM
But he has a meme, to him a meme is an argument.
You know he's run out of ideas when the memes make an appearance.

Captdon
01-07-2018, 03:27 PM
Nobody's "creating" a crime. One was committed. Possibly far more than one. Circumstantial evidence available to the general public is overwhelming, and I'm sure the investigators have more than we know. After all they uncovered lies, clandestine meetings, and falsified paperwork, denying anything happened is at this point extremely disingenuous.

Mueller's team is not composed of "trump haters" nor is he one. No-one covered for Clinton, quite to the contrary I clearly remember many conservative crowing when Comey threw her under the bus 10 days before the election.

If Mueller had evidence he would release it. Are you saying he would hold evidence that a President represents Russia's interest? He would be a traitor if he did. Mueller has nothing on Trump because there is nothing.

Tahuyaman
01-08-2018, 03:01 PM
Has anyone noticed that as the Russia /Trump collusion meme is falling apart, the liberals are now claiming that Trump never wanted to be POTUS and was running just for the publicity.

resister
01-08-2018, 03:04 PM
Has anyone noticed that as the Russia /Trump collusion meme is falling apart, the liberals are now claiming that Trump never wanted to be POTUS and was running just for the publicity.
It is funny watching the progs jump from meme to meme! :laugh:

jigglepete
01-08-2018, 03:09 PM
Has anyone noticed that as the Russia /Trump collusion meme is falling apart, the liberals are now claiming that Trump never wanted to be POTUS and was running just for the publicity.

As far as I know, this is not a new theory I recall hearing this and similar in 2016...

Tahuyaman
01-08-2018, 03:24 PM
As far as I know, this is not a new theory I recall hearing this and similar in 2016...
Then why would he collude with the Russians to swing the election his way if he never wanted to be POTUS the first place?

texan
01-08-2018, 04:51 PM
Disappearing act.

Bethere
01-11-2018, 04:41 PM
That is most certainly not trolling.

Your typical thread more fits that bill.

1. This is a call out thread.
2. The op does them all of the time.
3. Call out threads aren't allowed.
4. This one is still here.
5. Ethereal must be special.

Bob the Slob
01-11-2018, 04:43 PM
If Mueller had evidence he would release it. Are you saying he would hold evidence that a President represents Russia's interest? He would be a traitor if he did. Mueller has nothing on Trump because there is nothing.


Having evidence and then having enough to charge someone with a crime are two different things. It took the special and then the independent counsel looking into Clinton over two years to prosecute him. and then they got him for lying to congress.

Such simple minds. This must be driving you guys insane. Two convictions and two plea deals which lead to collusion with Russia and STILL you guys follow the words of a man more and more professionals are calling insane.

Bob the Slob
01-11-2018, 04:44 PM
1. This is a call out thread.
2. The op does them all of the time.
3. Call out threads aren't allowed.
4. This one is still here.
5. Ethereal must be special.
What's a "call-out" thread?

Bob the Slob
01-11-2018, 04:45 PM
I will use this thread to examine, address, and rebut the main points of the Russian "collusion" conspiracy theory being peddled by the deep state and its minions. And I will use a specific iteration of that theory, promoted by one of the strongest proponents of the "collusion" narrative, as a baseline for demonstrating just how empty and baseless that theory is.

To wit:


Point one: There is no proof that Wikileaks is backed by the Kremlin. This is pure speculation based on nothing concrete.

Point two: There is no proof that Wikileaks "stole" Podesta's email. That is not even Wikileaks MO. They are known for receiving and publishing documents, not extracting them.

Point three: The entity known as Guccifer 2.0 is alleged to have hacked the DNC's servers, NOT Podesta's email account. The hack of Podesta's email account is a SEPARATE incident from the hack of the DNC's servers by Guccifer 2.0. There is no proof at all that Guccifer 2.0 hacked Podesta's emails, nor is there any proof that Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of Wikileaks.

Point four: Hints in the press? So speculative that it's not even worth addressing

So in about ten minutes, I've been able to dismantle months worth of conspiracy theory. And it wasn't hard at all. Now just imagine how easily Trump's high-powered lawyers would rip this "theory" to shreds if it ever found its way into a courtroom. That would be fun to watch.

Is it a call out thread because it's not about any news, just some insecure right winger calling you out?

Tahuyaman
01-11-2018, 04:45 PM
1. This is a call out thread.
2. The op does them all of the time.
3. Call out threads aren't allowed.
4. This one is still here.
5. Ethereal must be special.

How do you figure this is a " call out" thread? Who specifically was he calling out? All he did was quote you and show how your comment was not fact based.

Bob the Slob
01-11-2018, 04:56 PM
Point one: There is no proof that Wikileaks is backed by the Kremlin. This is pure speculation based on nothing concrete.

Given that Assange is the founder. He spent the 2016 election in the US helping Trump win by going through the Russians.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/julian-assange-blasts-us-intel-report-russian-hacking/

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jul/11/julian-assange-donald-trump-jr-wikileaks

So I think a smart person could deduce he was helping Russia help Trump win.
Point two: There is no proof that Wikileaks "stole" Podesta's email. That is not even Wikileaks MO. They are known for receiving and publishing documents, not extracting them.
Trump colluded with Assange to get clinton emails.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/357086-trump-campaign-data-firm-sought-assanges-help-on-clinton-emails

We know the Russians hacked the mails. The fact that Assange released them is his part in all of this. His COLLUSION with Russia.
Point three: The entity known as Guccifer 2.0 is alleged to have hacked the DNC's servers, NOT Podesta's email account. The hack of Podesta's email account is a SEPARATE incident from the hack of the DNC's servers by Guccifer 2.0. There is no proof at all that Guccifer 2.0 hacked Podesta's emails, nor is there any proof that Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of Wikileaks.sThe proof is that RUSSIA hacked the emails from Podesta. As a side note, did you know that Guccifer is helping Mueller now>

https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
Point four: Hints in the press? So speculative that it's not even worth addre What's this about?
So in about ten minutes, I've been able to dismantle months worth of conspiracy theory. And it wasn't hard at all. Now just imagine how easily Trump's high-powered lawyers would rip this "theory" to shreds if it ever found its way into a courtroom. That would be fun to watch.

You've dismantled nothing. You've shown no links to prove your statements so all you've shown are the opinions you have.

Ethereal
01-15-2018, 05:38 AM
1. This is a call out thread.
2. The op does them all of the time.
3. Call out threads aren't allowed.
4. This one is still here.
5. Ethereal must be special.
Only a giant drama queen would label this thread a "call out".

Ethereal
01-15-2018, 05:45 AM
What's a "call-out" thread?

In Bethere's mind, it's any thread that challenges statements or arguments he's made on the internet. For everyone else in the world, a "call out" thread is where someone starts a thread for the purposes of attacking another poster personally.

For some reason, Bethere believes an attack on his arguments equates to an attack on him personally. And he's been asserting this asinine belief for months. But the real reason he spews this nonsense is simply because he is too intellectually intimidated by me to defend his crackpot conspiracy theory, which I dismantled in mere minutes.

Ethereal
01-15-2018, 05:50 AM
Is it a call out thread because it's not about any news, just some insecure right winger calling you out?
It's not a "call-out" thread. Bethere is just making lame excuses because he doesn't want to defend his asinine theories about Russian collusion.

I know this may come as a surprise to some, but challenging the lamebrain arguments of liberals is a perfectly legitimate use of a political forum.

Ethereal
01-15-2018, 05:52 AM
You've dismantled nothing. You've shown no links to prove your statements so all you've shown are the opinions you have.
My statements are merely observations that your "collusion" narrative lacks proof, and one does not need a "link" in support of an observation.

stjames1_53
01-15-2018, 06:25 AM
My statements are merely observations that your "collusion" narrative lacks proof, and one does not need a "link" in support of an observation.

Yes, he's been at it for months now. He posts his "facts" and I ask for links, he claims my request is a personal attack, but never supplies the links............or if I dispute his links with some of mine, he still claims I'm attacking him personally........
He's a hack. What can you say about a person who relies upon Mother Jones as a Bible for knowledge.............

Ethereal
01-15-2018, 10:59 PM
The FBI Hand Behind Russia-gate (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48572.htm)

By Ray McGovern

Russia-gate is becoming FBI-gate, thanks to the official release of unguarded text messages between loose-lipped FBI counterintelligence official Peter Strzok and his garrulous girlfriend, FBI lawyer Lisa Page. (Ten illustrative texts from their exchange appear at the end of this article.)

Despite his former job as chief of the FBI’s counterintelligence section, Strzok had the naive notion that texting on FBI phones could not be traced. Strzok must have slept through “Security 101.” Or perhaps he was busy texting during that class. Girlfriend Page cannot be happy at being misled by his assurance that using office phones would be a secure way to conduct their affair(s).

It would have been unfortunate enough for Strzok and Page to have their adolescent-sounding texts merely exposed, revealing the reckless abandon of star-crossed lovers hiding (they thought) secrets from cuckolded spouses, office colleagues, and the rest of us. However, for the never-Trump plotters in the FBI, the official release of just a fraction (375) of almost 10,000 messages does incalculably more damage than that.

We suddenly have documentary proof that key elements of the U.S. intelligence community were trying to short-circuit the U.S. democratic process. And that puts in a new and dark context the year-long promotion of Russia-gate. It now appears that it was not the Russians trying to rig the outcome of the U.S. election, but leading officials of the U.S. intelligence community, shadowy characters sometimes called the Deep State.

[...]

MisterVeritis
01-16-2018, 01:18 AM
We know where many of the coup plotters work. It is time to start rounding them up.

Ethereal
01-22-2018, 06:14 PM
Russsia-Gate Implodes (https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2018/01/22/russsia-gate-implodes/)

The real “collusion” is the alliance of foreign actors and the Democrats

by Justin Raimondo Posted on January 22, 2018

The finale is upon us: the Russia-gate fraud is about to be exploded, at long last. Although the vaunted memo – and the underlying intelligence – compiled by the leadership of the House Intelligence Committee under chairman Devin Nunes (R-CA) has yet to be released, there has been enough chatter by those House members who have read it to give us the basic elements of what it contains. Although prepare to be shocked by what I consider to be the most outrageous aspect of this affair.

To begin with, it’s clear that the “dossier” paid for by the neocons over at the Free Beacon and then taken up later by Hillary Clinton was submitted to the FISA court by the FBI as the factual basis for allowing secret surveillance of the Trump campaign, possibly including Donald Trump himself. The FISA judge was reportedly not told who paid for the dossier.

In an interview with the Daily Caller, veteran law enforcement professional Joseph DiGenova cites as evidence of a pattern of deception the details of a FISA court opinion (April 27, 2017) that charged the Obama administration with lying to the court and illegal use of material obtained through their spying campaign. The court said the government’s actions were “abusive” because the purloined material was handed out to “contractors.” We aren’t told who these contractors are. My guess – and DiGenova’s: Fusion GPS, the firm hired to smear Trump, and CrowdStrike, the cyber-security firm in charge of the DNC’s email system – which the FBI never was allowed to look at.

The anti-Trump coup plotters constructed an elaborate fiction for the benefit of the FISA court, presented it to the court as factual, and used it as the basis for obtaining a warrant for the Obama administration – and, in effect, the Clinton campaign – to not only spy on the Trump campaign but to actively disrupt it.

CONTINUED...

Throw the coup plotters in jail and let them rot like the traitors and criminals they are.