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Chloe
01-27-2018, 05:38 PM
(CNN) In a surprise reversal, the Environmental Protection Agency announced it is withdrawing its plan to suspend environmental protections for an area of Alaska that is home to the world's most valuable wild salmon fishery.

The EPA proposed last year to "reverse clean water safeguards" for the Bristol Bay watershed, paving the way for a massive gold and copper mine to be built in the region.
The controversial proposal would have canceled an EPA protection put in place during the Obama administration. After years of study, the EPA found in 2014 that a mine "would result in complete loss of fish habitat" in some areas of the bay, and that "all of these losses would be irreversible."
The Bristol Bay watershed is one of the most pristine ecosystems in the world, supplying about half of the world's sockeye salmon.



A CNN investigation (https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/politics/pebble-epa-bristol-bay-invs/index.html) last fall found that EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt ordered his staff to reverse the environmental protection within hours after meeting with the CEO of the mining company, Pebble Limited Partnership. Shortly after CNN's report, more than 40 congressional Democrats wrote a letter (https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/news/press-releases/cantwell-murray-wa-house-dems-to-trump-admin-listen-to-our-fishermen-and-save-bristol-bay-wa-fishing-jobs) expressing "deep concern" about the EPA's reversal.
"I found out from your story that they actually had an agreement," Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state told (http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/12/epa-removes-restrictions-for-alaska-mine-cantwell-griffin-sot-ac.cnn) CNN's Anderson Cooper. "Doing a sweetheart deal for a mining executive, five minutes after he leaves your office, is not the due process that taxpayers want."
Alaska governor Bill Walker had also spoken to Pruitt about his opposition to the mine several times over the past year.
"I have shared with him my belief that in the Bristol Bay region we should prioritize the resource that has sustained generations and must continue to do so in perpetuity," Walker said in a news release. In his state of the state address, Walker noted that the Bristol Bay fishery celebrated the harvest of its two billionth salmon last year.In the EPA's latest decision, released late Friday, Pruitt wrote, "it is my judgment at this time that any mining projects in the region likely pose a risk to the abundant natural resources that exist there. Until we know the full extent of that risk, those natural resources and world-class fisheries deserve the utmost protection."
The EPA will continue to take public comment on the mine, and its announcement means the plan to withdraw the environmental protections is on hold while the EPA "receives more information on the potential mine's impact on the region's world-class fisheries and natural resources." a
Last year, the EPA and Pebble Limited Partnership reached a settlement agreement that allowed the mining company to apply for a permit. While Friday's decision still allows a pathway for the Pebble Mine to be developed, the EPA statement says any permits to build "must clear a high bar, because EPA believes the risk to Bristol Bay may be unacceptable."
The mining company says its application for a permit remains on track.
"We have every confidence that Pebble's ultimate project design will meet the rigorous environmental standards enforced in Alaska and the US," said Ron Thiessen, president and CEO of Northern Dynasty, Pebble's parent company in a statement. He said the permitting process "will demonstrate that compliance through an open, objective, transparent and science-driven review."

CNN's Collette Richards contributed to this report.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/27/politics/epa-alaska-salmon-fishery/index.html

Chloe
01-27-2018, 05:39 PM
22488

Bethere
01-27-2018, 06:12 PM
22488

There's a finite amount of gravel suitable for industry. In the end? Republicans will pick gravel over salmon. It's inevitable.

I live next to a beautiful designated scenic river called the stillwater. It has tons of gravel because of our glacial moraine. It has great small and largemouth bass fishing, but its future is bleak.

The folks who own the properties on either side of the river are getting old and they are selling their properties to the gravel people.

It's just a matter of time.

Crepitus
01-27-2018, 06:56 PM
Hopefully this means Pruitt had a sudden rush of brains to the head.

But I need more evidence.

Grokmaster
01-27-2018, 07:01 PM
(CNN) In a surprise reversal, the Environmental Protection Agency announced it is withdrawing its plan to suspend environmental protections for an area of Alaska that is home to the world's most valuable wild salmon fishery.

The EPA proposed last year to "reverse clean water safeguards" for the Bristol Bay watershed, paving the way for a massive gold and copper mine to be built in the region.
The controversial proposal would have canceled an EPA protection put in place during the Obama administration. After years of study, the EPA found in 2014 that a mine "would result in complete loss of fish habitat" in some areas of the bay, and that "all of these losses would be irreversible."
The Bristol Bay watershed is one of the most pristine ecosystems in the world, supplying about half of the world's sockeye salmon.



A CNN investigation (https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/politics/pebble-epa-bristol-bay-invs/index.html) last fall found that EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt ordered his staff to reverse the environmental protection within hours after meeting with the CEO of the mining company, Pebble Limited Partnership. Shortly after CNN's report, more than 40 congressional Democrats wrote a letter (https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/news/press-releases/cantwell-murray-wa-house-dems-to-trump-admin-listen-to-our-fishermen-and-save-bristol-bay-wa-fishing-jobs) expressing "deep concern" about the EPA's reversal.
"I found out from your story that they actually had an agreement," Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state told (http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/12/epa-removes-restrictions-for-alaska-mine-cantwell-griffin-sot-ac.cnn) CNN's Anderson Cooper. "Doing a sweetheart deal for a mining executive, five minutes after he leaves your office, is not the due process that taxpayers want."
Alaska governor Bill Walker had also spoken to Pruitt about his opposition to the mine several times over the past year.
"I have shared with him my belief that in the Bristol Bay region we should prioritize the resource that has sustained generations and must continue to do so in perpetuity," Walker said in a news release. In his state of the state address, Walker noted that the Bristol Bay fishery celebrated the harvest of its two billionth salmon last year.In the EPA's latest decision, released late Friday, Pruitt wrote, "it is my judgment at this time that any mining projects in the region likely pose a risk to the abundant natural resources that exist there. Until we know the full extent of that risk, those natural resources and world-class fisheries deserve the utmost protection."
The EPA will continue to take public comment on the mine, and its announcement means the plan to withdraw the environmental protections is on hold while the EPA "receives more information on the potential mine's impact on the region's world-class fisheries and natural resources." a
Last year, the EPA and Pebble Limited Partnership reached a settlement agreement that allowed the mining company to apply for a permit. While Friday's decision still allows a pathway for the Pebble Mine to be developed, the EPA statement says any permits to build "must clear a high bar, because EPA believes the risk to Bristol Bay may be unacceptable."
The mining company says its application for a permit remains on track.
"We have every confidence that Pebble's ultimate project design will meet the rigorous environmental standards enforced in Alaska and the US," said Ron Thiessen, president and CEO of Northern Dynasty, Pebble's parent company in a statement. He said the permitting process "will demonstrate that compliance through an open, objective, transparent and science-driven review."

CNN's Collette Richards contributed to this report.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/27/politics/epa-alaska-salmon-fishery/index.html



Do you have a QUOTE of Scott Pruitt saying he planned to end the protection for Bristol Bay, or just the completely UNSUBSTANTIATED claim from, shall we say, proven to be unreliable, CNN?

Trish
01-27-2018, 07:48 PM
Hopefully this means Pruitt had a sudden rush of brains to the head.

But I need more evidence.

I don't think that's possible. We'll probably see somewhere down the road that this reversal was for a reason that will benefit the company not the environment. Pruitt is slimier then the scum at the bottom of a pile of sludge. He's bought and paid for like several others.

resister
01-27-2018, 08:17 PM
The left would bitch if hung with new rope, here they do what the left wants and get bashed for it.

There should be no compromise with the left, no matter what, it is never enough.

nathanbforrest45
01-27-2018, 08:23 PM
Are they also going to limit the amount of salmon the indigenous tribes can take? They do far more to diminish the salmon population you know and there are no laws stopping them from taking as many fish as they want.

Grokmaster
01-27-2018, 09:03 PM
STILL WAITING:...


Do you have a QUOTE of Scott Pruitt saying he planned to end the protection for Bristol Bay, or just the completely UNSUBSTANTIATED claim from, shall we say, proven to be unreliable, CNN?

Tahuyaman
01-27-2018, 09:07 PM
IN the Pacific NW our salmon runs were healthy until we bent over and grabbed our ankles for the tribals. They can net any river any time they want and completely eliminate a salmon run. And that's what they have done.

Kacper
01-28-2018, 09:48 AM
Ok but my gravel prices better not go up cause I loves me some gravel and don't care about some stinky old fish

donttread
01-28-2018, 10:29 AM
(CNN) In a surprise reversal, the Environmental Protection Agency announced it is withdrawing its plan to suspend environmental protections for an area of Alaska that is home to the world's most valuable wild salmon fishery.

The EPA proposed last year to "reverse clean water safeguards" for the Bristol Bay watershed, paving the way for a massive gold and copper mine to be built in the region.
The controversial proposal would have canceled an EPA protection put in place during the Obama administration. After years of study, the EPA found in 2014 that a mine "would result in complete loss of fish habitat" in some areas of the bay, and that "all of these losses would be irreversible."
The Bristol Bay watershed is one of the most pristine ecosystems in the world, supplying about half of the world's sockeye salmon.



A CNN investigation (https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/politics/pebble-epa-bristol-bay-invs/index.html) last fall found that EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt ordered his staff to reverse the environmental protection within hours after meeting with the CEO of the mining company, Pebble Limited Partnership. Shortly after CNN's report, more than 40 congressional Democrats wrote a letter (https://www.cantwell.senate.gov/news/press-releases/cantwell-murray-wa-house-dems-to-trump-admin-listen-to-our-fishermen-and-save-bristol-bay-wa-fishing-jobs) expressing "deep concern" about the EPA's reversal.
"I found out from your story that they actually had an agreement," Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state told (http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/12/epa-removes-restrictions-for-alaska-mine-cantwell-griffin-sot-ac.cnn) CNN's Anderson Cooper. "Doing a sweetheart deal for a mining executive, five minutes after he leaves your office, is not the due process that taxpayers want."
Alaska governor Bill Walker had also spoken to Pruitt about his opposition to the mine several times over the past year.
"I have shared with him my belief that in the Bristol Bay region we should prioritize the resource that has sustained generations and must continue to do so in perpetuity," Walker said in a news release. In his state of the state address, Walker noted that the Bristol Bay fishery celebrated the harvest of its two billionth salmon last year.In the EPA's latest decision, released late Friday, Pruitt wrote, "it is my judgment at this time that any mining projects in the region likely pose a risk to the abundant natural resources that exist there. Until we know the full extent of that risk, those natural resources and world-class fisheries deserve the utmost protection."
The EPA will continue to take public comment on the mine, and its announcement means the plan to withdraw the environmental protections is on hold while the EPA "receives more information on the potential mine's impact on the region's world-class fisheries and natural resources." a
Last year, the EPA and Pebble Limited Partnership reached a settlement agreement that allowed the mining company to apply for a permit. While Friday's decision still allows a pathway for the Pebble Mine to be developed, the EPA statement says any permits to build "must clear a high bar, because EPA believes the risk to Bristol Bay may be unacceptable."
The mining company says its application for a permit remains on track.
"We have every confidence that Pebble's ultimate project design will meet the rigorous environmental standards enforced in Alaska and the US," said Ron Thiessen, president and CEO of Northern Dynasty, Pebble's parent company in a statement. He said the permitting process "will demonstrate that compliance through an open, objective, transparent and science-driven review."

CNN's Collette Richards contributed to this report.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/27/politics/epa-alaska-salmon-fishery/index.html




The salmon fishery is very important. Nice to see a post from you Chloe

Chloe
01-28-2018, 03:23 PM
Are they also going to limit the amount of salmon the indigenous tribes can take? They do far more to diminish the salmon population you know and there are no laws stopping them from taking as many fish as they want.


IN the Pacific NW our salmon runs were healthy until we bent over and grabbed our ankles for the tribals. They can net any river any time they want and completely eliminate a salmon run. And that's what they have done.

Blaming native tribes for the decline in wild pacific salmon populations is like blaming someone's obesity on the piece of pie that they ate earlier in the week. Commercial overfishing, dams blocking spawning runs, pollution and runoff from farms and mines changing the water chemistry of habitats, the vast reduction of habitat through deforestation and human expansion, rising water temperatures forcing populations to travel further distances which in turn lead to less salmon making it to spawning grounds, invasive species, a variety of imbalances within ecosystems caused by human touch, and a list of other things are the real reasons for the decline.

jimmyz
01-28-2018, 03:47 PM
I believe that gravel can be found elsewhere where an ecosystem would not be harmed.

Chloe
01-28-2018, 03:49 PM
I believe that gravel can be found elsewhere where an ecosystem would not be harmed.

Of course, and I would also argue that gold and copper are not worth the destruction of pristine wilderness.

Boris The Animal
01-28-2018, 03:54 PM
Of course, and I would also argue that gold and copper are not worth the destruction of pristine wilderness.So what other conductant would you use for electrical wire? Copper is the second best conductor next to Gold and Silver. Aluminum was tried and lacking. It's only good for high voltage feeder cable (1/0 and above)

jimmyz
01-28-2018, 03:55 PM
Of course, and I would also argue that gold and copper are not worth the destruction of pristine wilderness.

There should be a mandate that all mining scars be rehabilitated back to their natural pre-mining state by the mining companies that mined there. Granted, it would not be totally healed for many years but still preferable to open piles of rubble and gouged earth.

Chloe
01-28-2018, 03:56 PM
So what other conductant would you use for electrical wire? Copper is the second best conductor next to Gold and Silver. Aluminum was tried and lacking. It's only good for high voltage feeder cable (1/0 and above)
I guess we as a leading nation will need to figure it out now won't we? Destroying the natural world for an electrical wire is not sustainable.

Boris The Animal
01-28-2018, 04:04 PM
I guess we as a leading nation will need to figure it out now won't we? Destroying the natural world for an electrical wire is not sustainable.Excuse me, but copper wire IS the best, and safest way to conduct electricity at home, schools, etc. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with your pathetic environazi worldview. And in case you think I'm just talking out of my ass, I'm not. I worked in the industry for 8 years so I should have an idea just what the hell I'm talking about.

Chloe
01-28-2018, 04:05 PM
Excuse me, but copper wire IS the best, and safest way to conduct electricity at home, schools, etc. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with your pathetic environazi worldview.
And it must come from Bristol Bay? No exceptions?

Boris The Animal
01-28-2018, 04:06 PM
And it must come from Bristol Bay? No exceptions?Anywhere we can get it cheaply and most effectively. And (with due respect to my family lineage) even if we have to go the St. Regis region of the Adirondack Mountains to get it? So be it.

Tahuyaman
01-28-2018, 04:07 PM
Blaming native tribes for the decline in wild pacific salmon populations is like blaming someone's obesity on the piece of pie that they ate earlier in the week. Commercial overfishing, dams blocking spawning runs, pollution and runoff from farms and mines changing the water chemistry of habitats, the vast reduction of habitat through deforestation and human expansion, rising water temperatures forcing populations to travel further distances which in turn lead to less salmon making it to spawning grounds, invasive species, a variety of imbalances within ecosystems caused by human touch, and a list of other things are the real reasons for the decline.


Obviously you aren't aware of what the tribes are doing in Washington state. They have eliminated several major runs on most rivers. It should be a crime.



Dams have fish ladders. Actually the removal several dams has hurt the existing runs. The build up of silt over decades was released and it destroyed spawning areas.


Environmentalist whack-o's have no clue as to how salmon runs can be restored. The salmon issue in the Pacific NW will never be solved until we force the tribes to act responsibly.

Chloe
01-28-2018, 04:09 PM
Anywhere we can get it cheaply and most effectively.
When you have to destroy pristine wilderness and risk the health of an entire ecosystem along with the livelihood of thousands of people then perhaps it's time to find a better option. Healthy ecosystems are more important than a mining company's profit and politics.

MisterVeritis
01-28-2018, 04:10 PM
I believe that gravel can be found elsewhere where an ecosystem would not be harmed.
Who owns the land?

Boris The Animal
01-28-2018, 04:11 PM
When you have to destroy pristine wilderness and risk the health of an entire ecosystem along with the livelihood of thousands of people then perhaps it's time to find a better option. Healthy ecosystems are more important than a mining company's profit and politics.Again, there IS no better option for electrical conductors than Copper.

MisterVeritis
01-28-2018, 04:11 PM
When you have to destroy pristine wilderness and risk the health of an entire ecosystem along with the livelihood of thousands of people then perhaps it's time to find a better option. Healthy ecosystems are more important than a mining company's profit and politics.
Do you use any electronic devices?

Chloe
01-28-2018, 04:13 PM
Do you use any electronic devices?
Of course. Do you live in or around Bristol Bay and depend on its health?

Boris The Animal
01-28-2018, 04:14 PM
Do you use any electronic devices?
Yeah, but she probably has a bunch of hamsters running in their little wheels powering them ;)

Tahuyaman
01-28-2018, 04:22 PM
Environmental extremists seem to believe man can not progress and coexist with nature. They call themselves progressives, but they want us to roll our lifestyle back to the days of the horse and buggy.

MisterVeritis
01-28-2018, 04:31 PM
Of course. Do you live in or around Bristol Bay and depend on its health?
No. But that is not the point. Rare metals come from someplace. Do you understand that?

nathanbforrest45
01-28-2018, 07:29 PM
Blaming native tribes for the decline in wild pacific salmon populations is like blaming someone's obesity on the piece of pie that they ate earlier in the week. Commercial overfishing, dams blocking spawning runs, pollution and runoff from farms and mines changing the water chemistry of habitats, the vast reduction of habitat through deforestation and human expansion, rising water temperatures forcing populations to travel further distances which in turn lead to less salmon making it to spawning grounds, invasive species, a variety of imbalances within ecosystems caused by human touch, and a list of other things are the real reasons for the decline.The native tribes are not subject to any environmental regulations regarding overfishing. It is a well known fact they deplete the fish population by the huge number of fish they take and then just leave to die. While it may be true the gravel mining may impact the fish population if you are truly serious about this subject you should learn just how harmful to the environment Native Americans are to wildlife.Get a clue girl.

nathanbforrest45
01-28-2018, 07:33 PM
And it must come from Bristol Bay? No exceptions?

It doesn't matter where it comes from since your anti human brethren will bbittch about it regardless.

nathanbforrest45
01-28-2018, 07:34 PM
Again, there IS no better option for electrical conductors than Copper.


Well, Boris, the answer is simple then isn't it? Get rid of electricity and just use WiFi for everything.

Tahuyaman
01-28-2018, 09:08 PM
The native tribes are not subject to any environmental regulations regarding overfishing. It is a well known fact they deplete the fish population by the huge number of fish they take and then just leave to die. While it may be true the gravel mining may impact the fish population if you are truly serious about this subject you should learn just how harmful to the environment Native Americans are to wildlife.Get a clue girl.


If you saw what the tribes do in Washington state, it would make you angry. Often they net the river or stream, extract the eggs then let the salmon rot on the river bank.

Kacper
01-28-2018, 11:02 PM
There's a finite amount of gravel suitable for industry. In the end? Republicans will pick gravel over salmon. It's inevitable.

I live next to a beautiful designated scenic river called the stillwater. It has tons of gravel because of our glacial moraine. It has great small and largemouth bass fishing, but its future is bleak.

The folks who own the properties on either side of the river are getting old and they are selling their properties to the gravel people.

It's just a matter of time.
Undoubtedly that this pebble mine thing was being developed by foreign companies played a big roll in why it is being deep-sixed for now.

MisterVeritis
01-28-2018, 11:19 PM
There's a finite amount of gravel suitable for industry. In the end? Republicans will pick gravel over salmon. It's inevitable.

I live next to a beautiful designated scenic river called the stillwater. It has tons of gravel because of our glacial moraine. It has great small and largemouth bass fishing, but its future is bleak.

The folks who own the properties on either side of the river are getting old and they are selling their properties to the gravel people.

It's just a matter of time.
Who owns the land?

Abby08
01-29-2018, 12:39 AM
Here, native Americans are allowed to kill bald eagles, because their ceremonial headdresses have to be made with real feathers.

The natives here, are allowed to do, pretty much, whatever they want, in the name of, 'culture.' many of those things, aren't compatible with the environment....but, who cares, right?

Cannons Front
01-29-2018, 08:22 AM
There should be a mandate that all mining scars be rehabilitated back to their natural pre-mining state by the mining companies that mined there. Granted, it would not be totally healed for many years but still preferable to open piles of rubble and gouged earth.

Mine land reclamation and closure plans are now required by regulatory agencies around the world, and are often a component of the environmental impact assessment process practiced in over 100 countries, in the US it has been the law since the late 70's and that same law established a fund to reclaim mines that were closed before the law.

Cannons Front
01-29-2018, 08:24 AM
Well, Boris, the answer is simple then isn't it? Get rid of electricity and just use WiFi for everything.
WiFi requires wire as well.....