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View Full Version : Nazi Germany Declared war on the US Today



Mister D
12-11-2012, 01:49 PM
On my birthday. :undecided:This made Germany's failure to win quickly in Russia fatal.

Conley
12-11-2012, 02:55 PM
On my birthday. :undecided:This made Germany's failure to win quickly in Russia fatal.

Well, in a way it's kind of good Germany did declare war on the U.S. right? Or is wrong to think that was the difference in keeping them from winning in Russia? My thinking is that it's good Germany bit off more than they could chew. If they paced themselves, how much worse would things have gotten?

Chris
12-11-2012, 03:09 PM
On my birthday. :undecided:This made Germany's failure to win quickly in Russia fatal.

Winter?

Mister D
12-11-2012, 03:20 PM
Winter?

With the industrial might of the US now a factor in the war Germany could not hope to win a prolonged conflict. It's one thing to leave the UK on your flank but quite another when the UK becomes a forward base for a power like the US.

Mister D
12-11-2012, 03:20 PM
Well, in a way it's kind of good Germany did declare war on the U.S. right? Or is wrong to think that was the difference in keeping them from winning in Russia? My thinking is that it's good Germany bit off more than they could chew. If they paced themselves, how much worse would things have gotten?

It didn't keep them from winning in Russia. Their failure to win in Russia by 1942 meant that victory was no longer possible, IMO.

Ivan88
12-20-2012, 04:29 PM
Roosevelt & Churchill declared war on Germany August 1941 with their Atlantic Charter along with Roosevelt's war acts against Germany and his war ultimatum to Japan.

1143

Carygrant
12-20-2012, 07:12 PM
The war was won from the moment we blew the Luftwaffe out of the air and Hitler forgot to check the weather forecasts for Russia .
Thereafter the only minor matter was the speed that matters were finalised.
Borman was not put in charge of the SS exit strategy in 1943 on a whim .

Mister D
12-20-2012, 07:26 PM
The war was won from the moment we blew the Luftwaffe out of the air and Hitler forgot to check the weather forecasts for Russia .
Thereafter the only minor matter was the speed that matters were finalised.
Borman was not put in charge of the SS exit strategy in 1943 on a whim .

Actually, you suffered only a few hundred less aircraft losses than the Germans and the weather did not stop the Nazi onslaught on Russia. Russian resolve and the entry of the US into the war did. Britain alone could do nothing but sit tight.

BB-35
12-20-2012, 09:14 PM
The war was won from the moment we blew the Luftwaffe out of the air and Hitler forgot to check the weather forecasts for Russia .
Thereafter the only minor matter was the speed that matters were finalised.
Borman was not put in charge of the SS exit strategy in 1943 on a whim .

So what was the weather forcast when Hitler invaded Russia in june?

Mister D
12-20-2012, 09:15 PM
So what was the weather forcast when Hitler invaded Russia in june?

:laugh:

Carygrant
12-21-2012, 06:07 AM
Actually, you suffered only a few hundred less aircraft losses than the Germans and the weather did not stop the Nazi onslaught on Russia. Russian resolve and the entry of the US into the war did. Britain alone could do nothing but sit tight.


Your comprehension is adrift again .
The Luftwaffe were out of the skies .
We were not .
No successful invasion could then ever take place .
Adolf admitted that .
Your comments re Russia are your usual garbage . Whatever happened prior to that bitter winter became entirely irrelevant when the German army was effectively killed by Adolf himself by his inability to correctly clothe his troops and take note of the weather forecast .
And then check out "who "kept Russia supplied and 'how" .
It certainly was not the US of A .
With Russia successful in the North -- possibly by good fortune --- and Team GB successful in the south ( Monty at centre forward scoring goal after goal) , the Americans were superfluous .
All they did was help us clear up the mess faster .
The fact that your Hollywood history has avoided the truth is something you will have to live with .
Anyhow you got to rob the Reich of its own plunder and you did a deal with all of the top scientists whilst allowing the SS to move en bloc to Argentina .
What more do you want?

Ivan88
12-21-2012, 03:20 PM
From a close critical observation of Hitler's background and actions, it is apparent that his economic miracle wasn't his, and that his Reich wasn't his either. He was a hired actor who's job was to destroy Germany, and he succeeded very well in this role.

The various military disasters that wiped out Germany's defenses were not accidents.

Here are a few clues:
1. Stalin wasn't going to attack at the start of the German invasion of Russia;
2. The British set up the Poles to act beligerantly to give Hitler an excuse to invade Poland;
3. Hitler announced that it was his intention to destroy St. Petersburg thus rallying Russian opposition;
4. Hitler sent special forces to greatly mistreat Russian prisoners and civilians to further aggravate Russians into supporting Stalin. They had been surrendering en-mass to Germany up to this point.
5. The long range artillery defending against an attack from Britain was dismantled prior to the invasion.
6. Rommel was prevented in other ways from stopping the invasion forces from Britain.
7. The general commanding the Germany troops at Stalingrad, was given a nice apartment & a pension by the Soviet upon the fall of Stalingrad.
8. Instead of destroying British air defense capability, he destroyed Germany's air defenses by attacking British cities.
9. His last order was to destroy all civilian infrastructure in Germany. Thankfully, it was countermanded by Albert Speer.

Mister D
12-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Your comprehension is adrift again .
The Luftwaffe were out of the skies .
We were not .
No successful invasion could then ever take place .
Adolf admitted that .
Your comments re Russia are your usual garbage . Whatever happened prior to that bitter winter became entirely irrelevant when the German army was effectively killed by Adolf himself by his inability to correctly clothe his troops and take note of the weather forecast .
And then check out "who "kept Russia supplied and 'how" .
It certainly was not the US of A .
With Russia successful in the North -- possibly by good fortune --- and Team GB successful in the south ( Monty at centre forward scoring goal after goal) , the Americans were superfluous .
All they did was help us clear up the mess faster .
The fact that your Hollywood history has avoided the truth is something you will have to live with .
Anyhow you got to rob the Reich of its own plunder and you did a deal with all of the top scientists whilst allowing the SS to move en bloc to Argentina .
What more do you want?

In fact, you suffered only a few hundred less aircraft losses than the Germans. If that's not true you should be able to prove me wrong but of course you cannot. That's because I'm right. The RAF did not and indeed could not "shoot the Luftwaffe out of the skies". It was a closely fought campaign that you were lucky to have survived.

I'm sorry you've fallen victim to the 'cold weather defeated the Germans' nonsense, Carygrant. If cold weather defeated the Germans how did they fight through three more Russian winters and continue to hold the initative into December 1942? Indeed, what was the weather forecast in June 1941 when they invaded? :laugh:

Again, Russian resolve and the entry of the US into the war sealed Germany's doom. Britain alone could do nothing but sit tight and receive a lot of supplies from the US. We kept you from starving. That's a fact.

North Africa was a sideshow, Cary. I'm sorry to break that to you. The ground war was fought in the east and the Soviets were sustained by sheer will and by a great deal of food, cash, radio parts, aluminum, and sundry from the USA. A Soviet official once remarked that the Red Army marched to Berlin in American boots.

Mister D
12-21-2012, 03:39 PM
What's funny is that I reject Hollywood history while Carygrant parrots his own nationalist mythology. I'll leave Ivan's contribution for his therapist to deal with.

Captain Obvious
12-21-2012, 08:13 PM
Tangent, but I thought this sub-plot was pretty interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise

Mister D
12-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Tangent, but I thought this sub-plot was pretty interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise

Sadly, the British should have stuck to such operations instead of their mass murder campaign which did little to end the war but much to tarnish Britain's moral standing.

Ivan88
12-24-2012, 04:17 AM
Sadly, the British should have stuck to such operations instead of their mass murder campaign which did little to end the war but much to tarnish Britain's moral standing.

The British have no "moral standing". Even Disraeli, the Prime Minister said they worship Molech, not Christ.
http://www.universitystory.gla.ac.uk/images/UGSP00401_m.jpg

Jarlaxle
02-10-2013, 03:42 PM
US industrial might won WW2. Without it, the Soviets would have collapsed.

Jarlaxle
02-10-2013, 03:47 PM
In fact, you suffered only a few hundred less aircraft losses than the Germans. If that's not true you should be able to prove me wrong but of course you cannot. That's because I'm right. The RAF did not and indeed could not "shoot the Luftwaffe out of the skies". It was a closely fought campaign that you were lucky to have survived.

I'm sorry you've fallen victim to the 'cold weather defeated the Germans' nonsense, Carygrant. If cold weather defeated the Germans how did they fight through three more Russian winters and continue to hold the initative into December 1942? Indeed, what was the weather forecast in June 1941 when they invaded? :laugh:

The Russian winter caught the German troops unprepared...that and a flood of reinforcements from Siberia stopped the drive on Moscow.


Again, Russian resolve and the entry of the US into the war sealed Germany's doom. Britain alone could do nothing but sit tight and receive a lot of supplies from the US. We kept you from starving. That's a fact.

Not to mention keeping many British armored and artillery units equipped!


North Africa was a sideshow, Cary. I'm sorry to break that to you. The ground war was fought in the east and the Soviets were sustained by sheer will and by a great deal of food, cash, radio parts, aluminum, and sundry from the USA. A Soviet official once remarked that the Red Army marched to Berlin in American boots.

Mostly, but not entirely. Offhand, the British losing the Suez Canal could have been a catastrophe!

Mister D
02-10-2013, 05:35 PM
The Russian winter caught the German troops unprepared...that and a flood of reinforcements from Siberia stopped the drive on Moscow.

True. They expected a quick victory. That said, the Germans retained the strategic initiative for another year.


Not to mention keeping many British armored and artillery units equipped!

Good point. British tanks were awful. They used quite a few Shermans not that the Shermans were anything to brag about.


Mostly, but not entirely. Offhand, the British losing the Suez Canal could have been a catastrophe!

It certainly mattered. Nazi control of the region would have been a boon for the Axis and may have severely restricted the floe of oil to the USSR.

Welcome!

Mister D
02-10-2013, 05:36 PM
US industrial might won WW2. Without it, the Soviets would have collapsed.

US industrial strength was critical Everyone plated their part.

Mister D
02-18-2013, 04:15 PM
A documentary this morning reminded me of something that I think would have been likely. Had Japan not attacked the USA Hitler would never have declared war on the US. In that scenario it would much more likely that Japan would have agreed to attack Russia from the southeast. IMO, that would have been the end of Stalin's regime. On the other hand, it was clear that the Japanese military could not hold its own against a fully deployed western force. The logistical problems inherent in America's island hopping campaign and Britain's inadequate Asian resources resulted in Japan never having faced a sustained campaign equal to the Eastern or Western Fronts. Their armor and anti-tank capability was woefully inadequate as well. Thus I'm sure that they would had much chance for success but that would have at least delayed the transfer of Russia's far eastern forces to the Moscow sector in 1941.

Just some thoughts. I'm in a history frame of mind today.

Mister D
02-19-2013, 04:35 PM
Upon further reflection. Japanese armaments were generally subpar. They had an interesting light machine gun but aside from that there is nothing that stands out.